Hey, I came from your post about Night. I’ve been wanting to read it for a while now, but I’ve heard that the English version is very watered down and stripped of the original emotions that are in the Yiddish version. Do you know if there are any more accurate English translations, or if the Hebrew one is more like the original? Sorry if you’re not the right person to ask about this, you just seem quite knowledgeable

(also coming from my vent account so I don’t get any hate on main for being a Jew lol)

No worries at all, @nonbinary-vents:

I want to be clear about something: My post was aimed at goyim.

You are a Jewish person, and reading this book (especially if you haven't read any other accounts of experiences in concentration camps) may be an important thing for you to do. And I'd cautiously encourage you to do so if you feel emotionally stable. But you do not need to worry about the experience of this book feeling watered down.

If you are Jewish and not in a very stable emotional state, do not read this book. Do not cause yourself harm.

(If you are goyiscshe, you should challenge yourself and force yourself to read this book. Obviously if you are in an actual emotional/psychological crisis or dealing with the death or illness of a loved one, then you are the only goyim who has an excuse not to read this book. No matter who you are, do not read this book if it will cause you actual mental harm or drive you to somehow cause yourself physical harm. But if it will make you upset, depressed, panicked at your own failings, or other extremely unpleasant but ultimately human discomfort, then you should read this book. Jews don't get a choice about knowing this shit, because knowing this shit is how we survive. And you NOT knowing this shit is what makes it so easy for you to dismiss and target us over and over and over again. You should be uncomfortable. You should feel guilty. Because unless you're actively learning how to disentangle yourself from the antisemitism that led to The Holocaust, then you are actively participating in thee fomentation of another. And that should horrify you.)

Sure, I bet this book is even more haunting and visceral in the original Yiddish. I've spoken recently about how hard Jewish language is to translate to English.

But there is no world in which this book will feel watered down to you.

@nonbinary-vents This book will haunt you. This book will change you. This book will challenge your faith and your ability to trust people.

Remember going in that Judaism asks us not to separate ourselves from our community--not just our Jewish community, but any community in which we find ourselves. Resist the urge this book may stir within you to become insular and fearful of goyim. That is not our way. We are a part of the communities and cultures and nations in which we find ourselves. And we must do good for those communities, because that is what we are called to do. The lesson of this book for Jews is different than the lesson of this book for goyim.

The lesson of this book for Jews -- in fact, the lesson of "Never Again" for Jews -- is that we cannot ever allow this to happen to ourselves again. No, of course, I am not blaming Jews for the Holocaust and if anyone thinks that's what I'm arguing here, then they can fuck off.

The lesson of this book for Jews is that we must never again let fear hold us back from fighting for ourselves. If he world calls upon us to die, we must refuse. Refuse to put ourselves on a list. Refuse to follow our oppressors' directions to the ghetto. Refusal to get on the train or to enter the gas chamber. And we must refuse to be silent for other people's comfort. While it is a Jewish imperative to believe that every human being is capable of kindness and has inherent goodness within them, we can never again trust that the kindness and goodness they possess will ever be directed at us. There was the very understandable thought back when this all started that if we just complied--if we were just willing to suffer a little bit by moving to the ghettos or registering on the lists of Jews the Nazis demanded or carried our papers with us at all time and wore our stars just as they said --then they would eventually realize we were good citizens. They would eventually realize we were just people like them doing their best to live quiet lives and follow the rules. People believed that, if we just complied, they'd remember their humanity and our own. If we just complied and let ourselves suffer, hen maybe our friends and loved one would be safe.

But that was a lie we told ourselves.

No amount of compliance or agree-ability or self-sacrifice will ever make someone who sees Jews as evil and subhuman realize that Jews are actually just human beings like everyone else. Compliance will never ensure our safety; it will just make us easier to kill. Compliance won't make antisemites see us as human; it will only ever make them see us -- at best -- as agreeable livestock.

(although I doubt any farmer would treat their animals as cruelly as Nazis and their supporters treated us).

I am not advocating for violence. But I advocating for discomfort and defense. That is why I am on here every day writing the things I write. I will not shut up for the comfort of people who don't care about my life or my safety. And neither should you. Neither should any of us. I will not allow antisemites to co-opt our own tragedies to demonize us further while casting themselves as warriors for justice.

No, we should not take to the streets and start harming goyim. But if the day comes that they once again start to round us up, I for one will tear those Nazis a-fucking-part with my bare hands. And if they live to have children and grandchildren of their own, they will have to explain to their children and grandchildren that they got the scars on their face and the missing eyeball because the Jew they were trying to murder wouldn't submit quietly.

And if this seems like a hyperbolic and absurd hypothetical to anyone reading this? Well, yeah. It seemed like one back then, too.

(And if any goyim chose to read "Night" by Elie Wiesel because of my post, please tell me. Please engage. I cannot be emphatic enough about this. If you are willing to read night in the way I asked of you in my post, then please do reach out to me with your experience and thoughts. Because that's the whole point. Jews need you to listen and engage with us about our own suffering. We need you to consider your impact on us and to not run away from that guilt or from us. If any of you are willing to read this book in the way that I have asked of you, please please please don't keep your experience to yourself. A lot of Jews desperately need to see goysiche growth in understanding antisemitism and its affects. I don't think you can even imagine how scared and lonely we are right now)

Hey! Just a question if you don't mind, you don't have to answer ofc but I value your opinion. (Quick tw for a non descriptive mention of abuse)

So I know family is very important in Judaism, and I'm converting, but I have nooo idea how to break the news to my family or if I even should. My mother's side of the family are completely estranged from me due to abuse and my dad is a Reddit atheist, the type who thinks all religion is stupid and will accuse anyone religious of being in a cult. (I don't talk to him much, for obvious reasons.)

Generally it's expected to tell family about conversion but I don't see it going very well with mine. At the same time, I don't want to have to hide my faith and eventual Jewishness from my own parents, and I would like them to be involved with my religion. (Plus unless I tell them, going kosher will be tough to explain)

Is there a particular rule about this? Do you will think it will hurt my conversion if I don't say anything?

On top of this, my maternal aunt (who I'm also estranged from) works in academia, and apparently taught my Rabbi when he was still in University. They're in touch with one another regularly 😬 whereas I haven't spoken to my aunt in about 5 years. My Rabbi knows about my connection to her but doesn't know anything about the abuse or that I don't talk to her... and I've got no idea how I should tell him or if I even should. Maybe you have some thoughts?

Hello! 

You have two distinct problems here, so I’m going to address them one at a time. 

First is do you have to tell your abusive family members about your intent to convert/once you convert. No. You absolutely do not. Yes, family is important and yes, it is a mitzvah to honor one's parents. However, abusive parents are a different story. By the principle of chayecha kodmin (“your life takes precedence”), your first obligation is to care for yourself.  

“One isn’t obligated to honor his parents if doing so would result in one’s suffering physical or emotional damage.” 

If you want to tell your family, you aren’t forbidden to, but you also aren’t required to. Assuming you are an adult who lives separately from your parents, not telling them shouldn’t prevent or delay your conversion, but this a certainly a good discussion for you and your Rabbi to have. 

Technically, from what I have been told, even an independent adult without abusive parents is not required to tell them about their conversion. (Children and those who live in their parent’s home likely would because of necessary lifestyle changes that would be difficult to make otherwise, again, talk to your Rabbi if you’re not sure).  

I certainly understand the desire for your parents to be involved in your future Jewishness. I hope that if you choose to tell them, they are understanding and accepting. If they aren’t, it is a failing on their part, not yours. You know them well enough to have a general idea of how they will likely react. If you think their response would be physically or mentally harmful to you, my advice is not to tell them. 

If you tell them, I have found that not making a huge deal out of it, although it is a huge deal, is the best way to go. Casually mentioning an interest in Judaism (and eventually, intent to convert) over time is better than having a sit-down discussion where tensions are high, and they may feel like this is a big decision that, from their perspective, is coming out of nowhere. Your mileage may vary, but that is what works for me. 

Second part, the Rabbi you work with has a relationship with your estranged abusive aunt. Should you tell him about her abusive behavior. 

This is tricky. There are a few things to consider: 

Does it upset you that they are in contact? If not, I would not tell him unless he asks, she attempts to contact you through him, or their relationship directly impacts you in a way that makes you feel unsafe or uncomfortable. 

What outcome are you hoping for by telling him? If you tell him, there is a chance that he will continue contact with her regardless. Would that upset you? If so, is it worth it/possible for you to work with a different Rabbi?

If you choose not to tell him, what are the potential risks? Are they sending emails to each other, or is there a chance you could accidentally run into her through him? 

If you choose to tell him, what are the potential risks? 

There are certainly aspects of this situation that I am overlooking or don’t have enough information to think of. Ultimately, it is your choice to tell him or not tell him. No one knows the situation better than you do, and I trust that you will make what you believe is the best choice. If you do decide to tell him, I sincerely hope he responds with compassion. Many of the Rabbis that I have met have been fantastic people, but it is important to remember that they are just as human as anyone else. 

My gut is telling me to suggest working with a different Rabbi if their relationship is upsetting to you. But again, I do not know the situation fully. 

I wish you good luck on your conversion journey and in navigating the waters of abusive relationships. I hope that whatever you choose in these situations, everything works out well for you. 💙 

why do you think it's okay to say "i hate children", when you possibly don't think it's okay to say "i hate black people", "i hate jews", "I hate handicapped"?

Because children are like middle-aged white men: their status in society is established and no words or insults will shake it. Children are loved and valued just for being children. They don’t have to do or give anything in return to receive all the admiration and protection. Expressing dislike towards children is like throwing a pebble at the Buckingham Palace. The same can’t be said about hating groups of people who have previously been oppressed and tortured or who still currently hold almost no power.

Then there’s the matter of language and how we use it, which is obvious to me. This is why I struggle to understand why anyone would make such a silly comparison or how anyone could misunderstand something like this but I suppose it’s possible that you’re serious. Many times the context of the word defines its strength and seriousness. When a person says they hate children I find it’s usually out of frustration towards their behaviour or inadequate parenting instead of genuine hate (although I’m sure it’s not impossible). “Love” is another great example of a word in the English language that can be stretched anywhere from loving your wife to loving your friend’s new outfit and we all know these feelings are nothing alike even when the words are.

Unlike hate towards ethnic or religious groups strong dislike towards children isn’t usually followed by the thought that they’re fundamentally less valuable as humans or that their rights should be forgotten and undermined or even replaced with intentional discrimination and cruelty. Many people, including me, realise that children aren’t irritating because they choose to be but because they are children and that their intellectual and emotional output correlates to their age and developmental stage and that growing up is a process one cannot speed up.

I don’t know what made you ask this but I can tell that you’re not a long-time follower. A few years back I landed in an unlucky situation in which I had to take care of a 4-year-old on a regular basis. She wasn’t and isn’t a devil but a well-behaved child but her presence was still stressful because I couldn’t fully be myself. I had to put on a brave face, be patient, listen to her tedious stories, answer her moronic questions and get her to do things (or not do things) by negotiating in an age-appropriate manner instead of giving up or yelling at her. What makes the company of children often so strenuous and excruciating for me is that I find it very important that they don’t know how much I dislike them and how much I wish I could be somewhere else. It wouldn’t be fair. Children are dreadful but they’re often doing their best and therefore I should equally do my best.

For various reasons I’ve recently had to do some self-searching and one of the questions I asked myself was why I went into paediatrics – paediatric gynaecology of all things – and why I keep doing it even when I so often feel stressed-out and almost physically stretched. I haven’t started liking children any more than before but I’ve began to like myself a little. For the sake of discretion I won’t go into details but I find that it’s often me instead of our female nurses who manages to get out situations that seem hopeless, calm frightened children and successfully sail upwind. I didn’t think I’d have the skills or the patience or if I did it would never work because of the way I look and sound like. There’s nothing wrong with me not liking children because I don’t let it show and I don’t blame them for being the way they are. I don’t expect them or want them to change.

To answer your question, you’ve compared thoughts that in my opinion are incomparable. Hating black people is racism. Hating Jewish people is a specific form of racism called nazism. They often lead to actions that hurt people. Hating disabled people often leads to the intentional disregard of their needs. But I find that “hating” children often just leads to an individual’s need to avoid children instead of hurting them and there is no way even for a completely sick individual to gather a movement around them that aims at stripping children off their rights.

I “hate” children and try to avoid them whenever possible, but I still absolutely and unconditionally think that they’re valuable members of society and deserve all the help and support we can offer. It’s possible to suffer in someone’s company and still think that their rights and well-being are important.

Okay I've been puzzling over this for a few days so I'll just ask, I don't understand what you mean when you say it's disrespectful to write about John's actual death in fic. why/how is it disrespectful?

why wouldn’t it be disrespectful? 

you have to consider that fanfic, for the most part, is just a bunch of thirsty fans writing wish fulfillment. very very few set out to write accurate, biographical retellings of the events that took place during the beatles’ lives, mostly because those things already exist, and there’s like… no need for anyone to rehash it unless they’re like conducting their own interviews or something. but in that case, you’re no longer writing a fanfic. what i’m getting at here is that fic is kind of a frivolous medium, in the grand scheme of things, which makes it unfit for certain topics (the most extreme example being using the holocaust as a backdrop for some shitty love story with a nazi guard and a jewish person as your otp. the argument here isn’t that holocaust stories should never be told; in mature, respectful hands, holocaust stories can be told in a poignant, informative way–see schindler’s list or the boy in the striped pajamas, to name a couple–but it should never be reduced to like a porno fantasy sequence).

there is a gray area when it comes to writing fic, though. a lot of people use writing as a way to cope with their own experiences, so while one could argue that topics such as abuse and rape are too complex to be used as a backdrop for a love story (because, let’s face it, the majority of fics are love stories), we don’t know what the author has experienced. in my opinion, it’s not unreasonable for a young writer (say 12 or 13 years old) who has experienced abuse to write a story in which the hot next door neighbor swoops in and saves them from their circumstances and gives them a better life. on the surface, this is a “problematic” story, but a young writer wouldn’t know that or care, they just wish it would happen. which brings us back to my first point: fanfiction is wish fulfillment. 

so my question is: why on earth would a fan wish for john to be dead? why would you wish to see paul grieving? why would you want to give his murderer any more attention than he already has? that’s the real kicker here, for me. writing about john’s death is different because he was actually murdered. to make his murderer as a character in your fic is like… so gross. to be fair, i think there’s a difference between telling a fic where john and/or paul just happen to die in a fictional way that makes sense with the plot of your story. i just don’t think john’s real death should be taken lightly. 

the fics i’ve stumbled upon that touch on his death (i’ve never read one that was about his death specifically, but it’s been thrown into other fics without reason or warning) use it solely evoke “feels” or make you cry or whatever. if an author can’t make you feel something without bringing up a real life tragedy and reminding you that someone you love is literally dead, i have to question if they’re a good writer at all. it’s an easy, guaranteed way to upset your audience. 

there’s a fic i’ve read (i won’t mention it by name, but i’m sure most of us have read it) that is literally a get together fic starting when john and paul first met. it’s a sweet little story about them falling in love, all pre-fame, but throughout the fic paul has these random premonitions which make him push john away or whatever. so that right there is like just a forced, random conflict and the fic would have honestly been more enjoyable without it. but at the end of the fic, when they finally get together and all is well, the author ends it with something like “but we all know they can’t live happily ever after as john’s life ended on december 8th, 1980 as paul had predicted…” like?? okay?? that literally had nothing to do with the story. it was just supposed to be one last punch in the gut, i guess, and that’s what i find disrespectful. a real person’s actual murder shouldn’t be used for shock value. the fic i mentioned is like 200k; it should be able to make the audience feel something without ending it with “lmao but they’ll never be happy because john is dead.” do you understand? 

again, i’ve never read a fic that is focused specifically on the day john died and paul’s reaction to it, and i imagine that some of them must exist as a coping mechanism. i would never contact any of these authors directly or like try to tell them they’re wrong, because it’s impossible to know their motivation; maybe they had a loved one who died, or was murdered, and they’re using writing as a way to understand their own feelings. that’s totally fine. i would encourage it, even. that being said, i can’t help but side-eye some of the people i’ve seen planning fics like this, when they’re like “i’m writing a 1980 fic and you guys are going to cry your eyes out paul is going to suffer >:))))” 

like. what is wrong with you. why would you do that. these are real people, paul did suffer, and that pain is not our playground. god there’s even a gifset that goes around which shows paul in the 80s tearing up while listening to one of john’s songs, and someone added a caption like “he’s so hot while he’s grieving.” like that is so fucked up?? 

writing about john’s death because you think paul is hot while he grieves, or because you like “paul in pain” stories, or because, for some fucked up reason, you want to write about death in graphic detail, then you’re being disrespectful. i don’t see any way around this. unless you’re very young or very fortunate, someone in your life has died. how would you feel if people were exploiting that and using it as a backdrop for some quasi-love story? 

like, true, it’s very unlikely that paul would ever see our fanfiction (though there are fucked up kids who tweeted images and links to fucking red hall during his twitter q&a and got their asses blocked–good riddance), but i think if we respect him as a person, and respect his feelings and realize that this is something he actually lived through and has to deal with to this day, not some quick little story that you can read for “feels” and will be over in 30 minutes, it becomes unimaginable to use that for entertainment. 

like i mentioned earlier, i’m sure it’s totally possible to write an informative and respectful retelling of john’s death. i just don’t think it could ever happen in fanfiction. it’s not the right medium. 

fanfic is a great, safe way to explore all kinds of topics and kinks, but when real people are involved, that changes things a little. if you want to expand on someone’s murder and tell a story about it, then you should probably write about fictional characters instead imo.