Um yeah, enjoy some little people I guess if you want- also please click the pictures to enjoy them better <3 [full under the cut]

Making my own rottmnt timeline (that includes lost episodes) and i think I'm going to start making vent posts instead of finding new friends to harass with my problems until they're exhausted/hj

So far I've put the episodes in a tenuous order. Because they aired out of order (evidence: hypno part deux happens at the same time as repo mantis but airs well after repo mantis AND the appearance of the turtle tank, also the first episode to show hueso is the fast and furriest, NOT the episode they meet him) I've had to basically just. Use context clues to the best of my ability and a lot of pain, suffering, and some tears. Now I'm going to try and make a timeline based on. Ya know. Time. As much as I can anyway with the like 4 dates the series provides

Below the cut is copy pasted woes I've sent to a friend

(These messages are sent to a friend over 24 hours of agony)

Fml btw

I'm trying to figure out a timeline for rottmnt

It is n ot easy

Also... I think I'm going to make my life even more hellish and include the lost episodes

I do actually have a pretty great source for those luckily!

https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Archer.Warrior/The_Lost_ROTTMNT_Episodes

There's a number of episodes that have nothing besides their episode name, some of which one of the creators said could be fake episide names. It's mentioned in this post

https://www.tumblr.com/yujateaandpi/704460357578670080/our-happygirl500-fan-so-ive-been-digging?source=share

these are all the episodes that have NO released stuff besides the episode name. not a description, not any concepts, nothing. some of them i do think are real (april showers and mayhem flowers) but some of them. no idea tbh

the post discusses 2 that person thinks are real based on context clues but yeah idk how many of these ill include in my timeline given i have NOTHING to go off of 😭

April showers mayhem flowers I think is to address mayhem leaving

Maybe splash hogs is something to do with the shell hogs or meat sweats?

In the og battle nexus NY, big mama and shredder were supposed to fall down to the hidden city, her hotel completely crashing down through NY. Maybe spiders web widens was supposed to be them helping big mama, or trying to, something referenced in the aired version of the episode when splinter tried to help her?

Friend: I think that could be likely. Read something awhile a back stating that, season 2 was gonna be more focused on big mama as the villain n so on and that.. would've really fit

Yepp. Cause the funny thing is that battle nexus NY was supposed to happen MID SEASON

And after that, they're basically trying to find her and the shredder cause they both booked it, racing against the foot to do so

Also something I realized since I'm obsessing over rottmnt atm:

It's Mrs. Cuddles

Who the FUCK is she married to??

-later-

I can feel my brain deteriorating

So fast and the furriest, newsworthy, and mascot melee, HAVE to occur before Bug Busters in the timeline. That also means hypno part deux and repo HAVE to occur before then, as well as donnie's gifts and newsworthy. Mascot Melee is the latest to occur in that bunch, because it's the only one post turtle tank debut. The rest are either the debut episode or don't have any turtle tank

So far so good, right?

Thing is timeline wise I'm trying to also follow along mystic power trends, so raphs episodes struggling with mystic powers/not yet doing a full body mode has to also be before bug busters. War and pizza, minotaur maze, and maybe longest fight? If I remember right?

Well longest fight does have to be earlier in the timeline because raph says "the freaky flame guys are back stealing jewelry", kind of implying this is the second time they've seen the foot, so it's def earlier/mid season

Friend: I admire you for how dedicated you are to this- doing what Nick refused to do.

That does sound right!

(Thank you dude that helped a lot)

Not to mention they underestimate the flame guys enough to keep watching skateboarding, cause they got a decently good victory against them the first time

Minotaur maze ALSO has to be pre turtle tank, because that's the episode they discover the mutant pizza place, which they visit when trying to find the turtle tankI think the gumbus happened while donnie was building the turtle tank. It's an introduction episode, so its earlier in the series, but there's 0 donnie (or raph, but raph could also be doing his own thing or helping get materials for don)I do think there should be some episodes between repo and turtle tank, because that was NOT a quick build, but there's only like 3 episodes without donnie and 2 of them have to happen a bit later

You got served has to happen after portal jacked, because portal jacked is when leo went from "annoying ass gremlin" to "begrudgingly my nephew". Why would hueso call for Leo's help pre portal jacked with how he was acting during the start of portal jacked? I think portal jacked is after the fast and the furriest, and cause Leo's been going there a lot he sees hueso as an adult he can get help from even tho hueso is annoyed af by him

And portal jacked should also happen earlier cause leo still doesn't understand how to get to the hidden city on his own, but if it happened after splinter began getting involved again not only would he be able to ask for the doohickey again, he'd probably *go to his dad for help in the first place*

So portal jacked is definitely BEFORE shadows of evil, despite what air dates tell you

Leo's portal powers are also more improved than the start, he's able to make large portals and usually succeeds at making them, but he gets the location wrong. Its probably just before or after late fee, where he also makes a large portal, but seems unsure if it'll work. Probably similar timing to mutant menace too, cause he makes a large portal but doesn't control where it'll go very well

So portal jacked is earlier making you got served later so it can't happen before bug busters

Nothing but truffle is the other no donnie episode, it has to happen AFTER Mrs cuddles though because she's in the episode. It also happens after repo, which does mean it *could* be while donnie is building the tank, but it's kind of implied meat sweats has seen mikey more than once or twice.

Idk, tbh I have a lot of trouble placing nothing but truffle

so far this is the timeline im most sure on. the highlighted episodes I have concrete evidence for their placement. i've inferenced the other two tbh but they make sense

as you can see, i havent even gotten to bug busters yet. it's so confusing rip

i think purple jacket has to be pre turtle tank because if the dragons could steal donnie's leathal weapon filled tank and use it, why would they NOT?? but they only stole his battle shells and tech bo, so i presume the tank wasn't finished yet so they didn't bother stealing it

shell in a cell just has to happen earlier to allow ghost bear to continue being a nuicence, i put it where it makes sense i think? may move it an episode or two higher or lower, but it's definitely within this list somewhere

I just thought this placement made sense cause the raph/leo fight in minotaur maze wasn't really resolved, so that tension could carry over to shell in a cell in which they make up and fight together

Smart lair I think is post bullhop, and bullhop is ABSOLUTELY post pizza pit

Things get more muddled after bug busters

The only things that have to happen a certain way is Pizza Pit -> Bullhop -> Smart Lair -> Mind Meld. There can be episodes between them, but they have to be in that order

-later-

Oh my god

Oh my god

Cloak and swaggart might be WAY EARLIER in the timeline than i ever expected what

There's a potential cameo of the Sandro Brothers pre mutation in it???

I'm losing my mind this would move every sunita episode up by a LOT

Cause this is the last sunita episode!!! But it has to happen pre evil league of mutants??

Oh my god

Now are they wearing cloaking brooches or name tags?

Probably name tags

Cause of the shape. Brooches are. Well. Brooches. Very semicircle. These are flat

But also this fucks with the timeline so badly?? Cause now shelldon has to be moved up, but also splinter is taking them on a training mission?? He didn't begin seriously training them until AFTER shadows of evil!

Fuck it. They're cloaking brooches. They panicked cause "I recognize that pig dude"

-later-

Should mystic library be before or after shadows of evil?

It's definitely later, cause raph uses full form mystic powers and increased size, his mystic powers are very adept. But how late?

Friend: Aftwr

Thank you

-later-

Tbh the biggest wrench in everything is Snow Day

Because Snow Day clearly takes place in *winter*

But there is NO WINTER IN ANY OTHER EPISODE

So it is just. An outlier

-later-

(NO SHAME ON THE PERSON WHO MADE THE INCORRECT TIMELINE BTW, THIS SHIT IS H ARD, I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND MISTAKES)

If you read through all that thank you, you're lovely

wrote an alt version for the same prompt cuz, why not? also this was the og direction i wanted to go but couldn’t figure out the words ‘til today. dedicated to the awesome whump queen @panchostokes!

———

“No! Don’t tell me to calm down!”

Greg couldn’t take it anymore. From doctors to nurses, crims and fellow colleagues; everyone had been telling Greg no all day.

No you can’t do this, no that doesn’t help the case, hey don’t go in there—Warrick had even blown up at him in a fit of emotional rage. Greg was handling it all as best he could, that is, until the paramedics arrived.

He hadn’t dared ask if he could ride with them. Greg was aware tag-alongs were solely up to the discretion of the driver, but Warrick and Catherine had silently claimed the coveted seats; which was already two bodies too many.

Instead Greg had to sit back and watch with the rest of the team as Warrick and Catherine loaded into the ambulance and drove off. He still remembers Nick’s hand idly sticking out, contracting and searching for something other than the company of his two best friends. Greg even noticed the gut-wrenching agony written all over Grissom’s face; a sickly silence of digestion rather than observation.

Like a vulture circling its prey, Greg had stood watch at the hospital all day. Hoping, waiting for everyone to clear out, but they never did. Nurses continued to stroll in every few hours to check Nick’s vitals, making sure he was stabilized. Catherine and Warrick had also taken it upon themselves to assist with bedside duties, though no one asked them to. Even Grissom himself had entered Nick’s room a couple hours ago, never abandoning his post since.

However the real test came when Nick’s parents, the honorable Judge William Stokes and Dallas County District Attorney Jillian Stokes, stumbled into the room with heavy hearts and vengeful eyes.

No one knew about their relationship—and they both preferred it that way. But neither person had taken into account what would happen if an emergency like this were to arise. Who would they tell? How would they find each other?

“Sir I’m going to ask you again to please sit down.”

The nurse motioned for Greg to take a couple of steps backwards.

“I know you’re just doing your job but you have to let me in there.”

“I don’t have to do anything for you, sir. Like I explained earlier, you can wait over there or in the hospital lobby. Only immediate family and law enforcement officials are allowed at this time as it is still considered an active crime scene.”

“That’s exactly what I’ve been trying to tell you! I am law enforcement! Do you need to see my credentials? Look, we work together and I helped rescue him, helped solve the case—”

Much to her dismay, Greg pulled out his CSI badge and waved it in the nurse’s face. Though it was understandable considering his current mental state, Greg was still imposing a little too closely into the nurse’s personal space. Something she certainly did not appreciate.

“Calm yourself or I’m going to call security.”

“Please!”

Such an anguished howl had never left the depths of Greg’s diaphragm before; not even in his darkest moments. But he was at wit’s end and didn’t care who saw anymore. Greg was now reduced to weeping at the nurse’s feet with fistfuls of his own hair entangled between his fingers. She shook her head and withdrew her shoes from his pathetic grasp.

“His room’s due for clean up in about seven minutes. I’m going to clear everyone out for about five, you have until then to see him. After that, you better be gone or so help me God—”

“Thank you...thank you.”

“Five minutes.”

Greg wiped his sullied face and picked himself off the ground as the nurse headed towards Nick’s room.

Just like clockwork, a grieving horde of adults were ejected, each of them confused and angry like Greg had been all day.

“I suggest everyone take a five minute break and grab some coffee or water down at the cafeteria on the second floor. He needs y’all to be in good spirits.”

Greg tried not to smile as the nurse forcefully corralled everyone outside, her stern voice echoing throughout the sterile white halls.

“How dare you say that to us? My son’s in there!”

“Jillian, please! I’m sorry ma’am, we’re just...adjusting to all of this. Jillian, let’s get a cup of coffee like this nice nurse has suggested since we’re gonna be here awhile. Grissom, Warrick, Catherine, care to join us?”

They all nodded and somberly walked towards the elevator as Greg slipped into Nick’s room like a ghost. Seeing Nick’s lifeless body on the hospital bed covered in lesions and speckles of dirt made Greg’s breath halt in his throat.

“That you?”

Greg instantly fell to his feet and captured Nick’s hands as softly as he could to not disturb the fragile condition he was in.

“Sorry. They wouldn’t let me—doesn’t matter. I got five minutes. I love you. You’re safe. That’s all I wanted to say.”

Nick chuckled, despite his inability to actually do so properly, and for the first time since Nick had been kidnapped, Greg laughed along too.

“Knew you’d find me. It’s my turn to do the laundry and there’s no way you’d let me live that down. Spiteful.”

Greg tightened his hold on Nick’s hands.

“I might be convinced to take over laundry duties for a week or two. Maybe. But only if you listen to everything the doctor says. Don’t pull anything, I’ve got eyes and ears all over the place, Stokes.”

“Oh. Do ya now?”

“How do you think I got in here? Got a nurse doing covert missions for me, no big deal. Anyways I have a minute left. I’ll be around, just...be back soon. Okay? Take it easy and we can talk more about this at home. When you’re ready. Love you...you big dumb idiot.”

Greg carefully released Nick’s hands and kissed his forehead before departing. He was halfway around the corner when he heard Judge Stokes’ voice resounding in the hallway.

“Warrick, we owe you everything for saving our boy. Talks about you all the time and it’s nice to finally put a face to the name. You know, Nick’s lucky to have friends like you watching over him. Puts me and Jill at ease.”

“Warrick, we’re flying you out to have dinner with the family in a few weeks. I hope you can keep your schedule open then. Grissom, did you hear that?”

Grissom knew better than to deny Jillian Stokes anything, so he just nodded.

“Thank you sir, ma’am, I appreciate that. But I can’t take all the credit. The entire team was looking out for Nick, including Greg over there.”

Greg stopped dead in his tracks, embarrassed at suddenly being called out.

“Who? That kid?” Jillian asked in disbelief.

“With all due respect ma’am, he’s not a kid. He’s the CSI that figured out the mechanical component to the...well thanks to him, we found Nick.”

“Well then...we’ve gotta meet him. Young man, come here!” Jillian shouted at Greg, nearly causing him to malfunction. “I don’t remember seeing him this whole time.”

“That’s because...he’s a bigger person than all of us, Mrs. Stokes. Does his job efficiently and quietly but doesn’t get the recognition he deserves.” Warrick finishes, and Greg feels understood for the first time in his life.

READ MORE ON AO3

three anons: what the hell was all that in S7

Picking out the three that are most to the point for this answer, but I’ve got another dozen or so that overlap. Not sure I’ll have time/energy to answer the rest individually, so hopefully this meta will be sufficient. 

I mean it could be that they had different execs back then who were better at their jobs and kept Shiro around. No one disliked black paladin Shiro, even the DotU fans were ok with it, and the writing in s1-2 was mostly very good. Changing all that was a bad idea. I would have left on the spot if Shiro died or was benched, like now, I'm only around for closure. Maybe they were different execs with this decision & the EPs leaped at the chance. Well, we know who's also gonna be in trouble if that's the case.

With your theory on how storyboards were reused and characters shuffled around for cost cutting, might this not also partly explain the Adam flashback scene and how it was staged? I mean, they were originally supposed to be roommates and the scene was meant to appear in season 2 but got cut. What if they just reused the storyboard (or even animation, if it was already mostly done) the way it was and then just changed the dialogue? This could explain the lack of intimacy in the staging, too. Ezor and Zethrids interactions were more openly intimate maybe not (just) because they‘re villains who die immediately after, but because the decision to make them an item came before storyboarding was done, so the staging is more suggestive. I mean, if you think Shiro was mostly pasted in in the first half of s7, that might make sense.

If cost was the issue and they already had the black paladin Shiro version written, and got the greenlight to change it to Keith then things don't add up. Because they changed it once more! Which could have been avoided if they stuck to the Shiro one. And it goes without saying it would be better written to follow canon instead of the mess we got, like, I cant imagine this NOT discussed. So if it wouldn't be cost effective to change it again for Keith and it would be badly written, why did it happen?

Behind the cut: the most likely chronology of revisions, the clues in S7 as to its original form, and what this means for S8 and the Black Paladin position. 

This is everything I’ve been able to figure out between interviews, podcasts, tweets, plus researching the industry and a few reality-checks with friends more familiar. As always, any mistakes are my own. 

version 0: "five teenagers"

This would’ve been the first pitch after getting the green light, and probably only a loose synopsis, with just the pilot given a rough storyboard. A post-apocalyptic Earth conquered by the Galra, who are seeking Blue. The execs rejected JDS' mechanism for the discovery of Blue, in favor of simply having Keith ‘sense’ Blue. The execs also rejected the idea that Shiro would die only a few episodes in. This summary seems to be the basis of the "five teenagers" part of the teaser.

version A: "shiro kicks the bucket"

Timelines would've dictated moving onto an outline pretty quickly, detailed down to the episode level, including bits of dialogue, motifs, turning points or emotional beats. In this revision, Shiro dies/leaves at the end of S2 and does not return. This is the “originally we wanted him to kick the bucket” version, which the execs rejected.

version B: "shiro goes away for awhile"

If I'm interpreting the hints correctly, the "does Shiro die or not" question got tossed back and forth all the way into S1/S2 pre-production. Rather than rearrange everything, the easiest fix would've been to leave most of the story intact and write only a new ending where Shiro returns. The execs reject this rewrite, saying Shiro can’t be gone that long. This is the “we tried to just have him gone for awhile, but the execs said he had to come back sooner” version.

version C: "enter the clone"

Again, easiest fix is to insert Shiro/Kuron, remove Keith, and reverse that just before Shiro's return in version B. This impacts only the middle seasons (S3-S6); the clone compromise satisfies the execs. Kuron's characterization makes a lot more sense if it’s Keith, in visuals (ie Kuron leaning against the wall in Keith fashion), dialogue (fighting with Lance), and action (leaving without consulting the team). It's also why no one mentions Keith's absence. Because in the original version A, Keith was standing right there.

version D: "wtf is going on", aka Season 7

When JDS mentions having a full season written with Shiro as Black Paladin, it didn't make sense how they'd have a script and not use it. With @ptw30's visual detective work, I think I may've figured it out.

Technical notes: first scripts are all written for a season, then voices are recorded, and then the combined script+recording is used to storyboard. Production seasons are 26-episodes, independent of actual broadcast seasons; VA may be recording scenes across two 13-episode seasons completely out of order, since the recording schedule's going to be based on who's available, not chronology of the file numbers. The biggest staff changes are usually in April ('staffing season') when new shows get the greenlight and start sharking around to catch writers, designers, directors, etc.

In March of this year, S5 was released. At least some of the storyboarders were released in time for staffing season; in April, Hedrick moves to a new project. With S7/S8 being unchanged since version B, I suspect Hedrick delivered the scripts for S7 and S8 by winter of last year, at latest. Even that would be tight, since that's expecting animation to deliver 26 episodes in an 8-month timeframe. [edit: probably delivered much earlier, given the studio leaks show images we can recognize from S7/S8, so some amount of these seasons were in production by then.]

In June, S6 dropped, and a week later, Hamilton was announced as the new story editor via the Lets Voltron podcast. With the lead time required in production, there doesn't seem to be any reason to even need a story editor, at this point. All the pre-production work should be done.

In August, S7 dropped. Hedrick's editor credit is only for the first half of the season; Hamilton gets it for the second half. That means the last six episodes were written after Hedrick's departure. (May Chan's S2 script was reused in part, and she gains a belated co-writing script credit for that. Hedrick should've received the same; it's standard.)

Let's recap a few things we know (and a few we can intuit) about S7:

The season was already written with Shiro returning as Black Paladin, possibly also recorded and storyboarded. 

S6 reversed the S4-S5 trend, lending strength to exec arguments that Shiro is necessary in the story.

After S6 dropped, the EPs said the wolf's name was a spoiler. See this post from @pwt30; tl;dr is that perhaps the EPs intended the wolf to be Shiro's spirit. 

Despite Shiro's return, he's absent for the majority of the first half; when he is present, he barely speaks a half-dozen words, and none are plot-relevant. See @ptw30's post for more details. 

There's a glaring incontinuity when Allura says the paladin armor protected the team, yet Shiro is frozen with the other non-paladins despite wearing armor. 

Keith never offers for Shiro to pilot, nor mentions it, nor even seems to consider it an issue.

Not everything dovetails since I don't have the full picture, but here's my theory: S7 was originally outlined with Shiro's spirit in the wolf, rather than Black. I have no idea when/how JDS would've thought up the CA:WS parallels for his sole writing credit, but Shiro's "I died" and Lotor's psychotic breakdown are squeezed into S6E6, which was written by Josh Hamilton, Hedrick's later replacement. The only other Shiro-in-Black point is a few minutes at the end of S6's final episode. Shifting from Shiro-in-wolf to Shiro-in-Black really only affects one episode, with a bit of editing for another.

Anyway, S6 ends version C, and we segue to version B. For the first half of S7, the clone's body may have been in stasis while the team traveled through its various non-adventures. The episode we now know as S7E1 may have been the mid-point, with about six episodes of Shiro being unconcious. After watching the numbers drop from S3 to S6, the execs may've rejected another six episodes of where-is-Shiro and insisted he come back ASAP.

S7 only has two episodes that must be in order; the rest are pretty rearrangeable. All they had to do was insert Shiro into the background and record a few lines. (Several lines are pure voice-over, which also saves cost/time by not needing to animate moving mouth.) But the moved episode is only his memory/awakening, and the logical next episode would be Shiro's reconnection, and the rest of the season would roll from there. Without moving the entire second half of the season to the start, moving only his awakening episode would mean Shiro does nothing for 5-6 episodes and then abruptly reconnects.  

In a recent interview, JDS said at first the execs weren't enthused until JDS talked up the new mecha they'd give Shiro to captain. Honestly, there's no way JDS got to be EP without giving a really good pitch, but there may've been another element to his argument: nostalgia. The EPs seem certain everyone suffers from their same nostalgia dementia, which if you do, then you probably have been waiting for any glimpse of that og!Keith. If Shiro returns at the start of S7, then Keith's time in Black has been limited to a few disastrous episodes in S3, and a single big battle in S6. The beginning of S7 is the only time we'd ever see the Voltron84 formation working as a unified team, and returning Shiro too soon would defeat the whole purpose of showing how the team has grown in his absence.

The solution seems to have been to remove Shiro's reconnection completely, and keep Keith in Black. That would mean re-recording Shiro's lines from the midpoint onward, and editing in Keith over Shiro. The savings would be that only half the seaon would have to be reworked, not all. The loose end of the space wolf --- an artifact of version B --- was left in place.  

What I'm not sure of is whether the following are significant enough changes to warrant removing Hedrick's name and replacing it with Hamilton's. It could be, if supervising the revision process is enough to override the previous credits. I have no idea about that part of the industry, and it's the kind of edge case you're just not going to find a lot of blog posts about, so if you know, tell me. Otherwise, your guess is as good as mine.

Anyway, this would've meant Shiro was switched in for Allura, Allura was put back in a lion, and Keith was switched in for Shiro. This would explain why Shiro speaks as the leader of Voltron despite no longer being a paladin, and the uneasy sensations a lot of people got about the characterizations. It was most striking in the last three episodes: Shiro felt like Allura v2, while Keith felt like Shiro v2. And that further, the Altean-Earthian ship just 'lighting up' for Shiro --- and becoming that oversized white mecha --- may've meant as Allura's fourth (fifth?) deus ex machina.

I'd be willing to bet that mid-battle, Allura repeated her stunt from the end of S2, heading out to destroy Sendak's crystal by herself. She wouldn't need Sam to hack her brain, and then we'd also have a call back to when she got knocked down by the crystal-ball thing on Naxzela. If she was the one meant to go toe-to-toe with Sendak, that would explain the bizarre neutrality of Sendak's words --- he says nothing personal to Shiro, at all --- and the even more bizarre silence on Shiro's part. Allura's words wouldn't fit Shiro, so he's silent.

And lastly, it'd mean that the one leaping out of Black to cut down Sendak wouldn't have been Keith. It would've been Shiro.

Where would the story go from here?

If I look at the events of S7, the first half is terribly disjointed, really. If Shiro was supposed to wake at the midpoint, an episode (or two) is missing. One for him to reconnect with Black, and a second that would provide some minor conflict to settle him back into position. Those two episodes were likely replaced with the unexpected and frankly over-told two-parter of the Earth flashbacks.

Two problems with that, one technical, one structural.

First, the flashback two-parter has a lot of moving parts. Brand-new designs, characters, and backdrops. It's far too elaborate to be done in an ultra-compressed timeframe, not without several heart attacks and therapy bills on the part of the animation staff. (Plus, the US-based storyboarding team is already downsized, so fewer hands to do the work.)

Second, it doesn't make a lot of structural sense, especially against the big revelations in S6 of an existing Altean colony. Within the story, there's no reason to halt everything and travel across the universe to take however long to build a new castle, when the Altean colony question is far more pressing. Returning to earth also violates the structure, because it's really just a standard milieu: start on earth, head out to have adventures, and return home at the end.

But here, they're returning home and then possibly leaving again. That's just... a rather peculiar and imbalanced way to do it. It doesn't help that doing so means literally telling Romelle her people are just gonna have to rot, the paladins are certain they need the castle more. Why would you take one of the more compelling storylines you've come up with, only to background it again, and wreck the traditional bookending milieu structure at the same time? Especially if that means coming up with major set-pieces and brand-new designs in the space of several months, after a chunk of your core staff are already onto other things.

I think those two flashback episodes -- and the rewritten finale episodes --- may've been cribbed from S8. In other words, the second half of S7 was the original end of S8. That would mean repurposing already-created storyboards and animation artifacts, so there's a huge time savings there (not counting the need to re-record voices and edit the visuals to match the changed-around parts). 

[note: if there’s anywhere you want to frontload introductions for the spin-off, it’d be in the final season, not the penultimate season. Here it feels like a big honking distraction, rather than an organic segue into the next iteration.]

That change necessitated that utterly bizarro mecha that appeared out of nowhere with the most ridiculously impeccable timing. There needed to be a reason to pull the team back out to space to deal with Haggar and/or the alt-Alteans and/or Lotor or whomever else it turns out to be.

So... where we go from here depends on when S8 gets released, because that’ll tell us how much they did (or did not) edit the episodes. Another clue will be whose name gets listed as head editor for an episode; if we see Hedrick’s name reappear at the top, we’ll know we’re dealing with episodes that are enough unrevised to qualify as being Hedrick-edited, that it’s a version B episode. 

My expectation? They’ll move Shiro’s reconnection to the first part of S8, and add an episode or edit pieces of another, to blend it into what would’ve been the first half of S8 (probably with filler to mask the gap). Then add an episode to segue into the version B finale of S7, where we’d end with the original VLD lineup. With the time needed for animation, that’d be the easiest (if potentially awkward) way to repurpose as much as possible of existing artifacts. 

If we don’t get S8 in the next 1-2 months, though, all bets are off, and there’s a much greater possibility that the entire final season is being redone from scratch. I’d expect Keith to stay in Black, in that case, but I’m always willing to be pleasantly surprised.  

edited to add: see this followup for another detail that supports the reversed-seasons theory

How KH3 could have gone and still been Nomura’s:

I’ve never posted on tumblr before, might never again, but I needed to get this out; for the sake of the catharsis I didn’t receive after 16 years with the end of KH3. The game itself was fine, in fact, I’d even rate it as a ‘great’ up until the Keyblade Graveyard. That’s when things go off the rails. So let’s rethink KH3, keeping all of Nomura’s plot points and intentions, but communicating them in a way that feels, I hope, much more rightful. I hope you enjoy this! First, the good and mostly-good. -Keep Gameplay as is—very nice. Very satisfying. Keep nice world set-up and secrets. Maybe ratchet up difficulty. Make a Coliseum in Zeus’ court to round off the whole thing as a triad. Have Yoko Shimomura write the soundtrack for real life, plz. Keep the lovely humor. Keep Sora’s excellent arc. Keep most worlds as-is: I was pleasantly surprised by how relevant and well-done most of the world’s plots were. -Cut back on the ridiculous amount of minigames that like 5% of people will be invested in and use those resources to make other improvements (like these?).-Rewrite Arendelle and Corona (and maybe Pirates?) to be unique stories–or, at least, only loosely based on the movies, while actually including important plot points. Have Pixar do it, because they kicked butt with their worlds. Include more Disney-bosses and either get rid of 100-Hundred Acre Wood, or do something more with it. -Don’t give Larxene and Marluxia magic cutscene powers like sleep and time-stopping they won’t use elsewhere. Don’t let the others, like Ansem SoD in TT or Luxord in Caribean, became decayed and cheesy versions of their prior threat. Get rid of, or explain better, why there are six new Princesses+Kairi. Explain “the Power of Waking” just a bit better. -Give us scenes between every world with more meaningful stuff re:Kairi and Riku. We haven’t really known them in awhile, so we need to be reacquainted. Have Riku actually do stuff—rather than constantly fail until Sora literally falls from the sky—like, expand on Repliku return? Or involve him in the Maleficent angle, because of his obvious and interesting connection? Maybe follow her around out of suspicion, making the Maleficent stuff feel less-tacked-on?   -Have Kairi do more stuff, with more scenes expanding on her (like that lovely scene where she talks about Namine!), rather than just how Axel sees her as Xion (but still keep that, too—hence, more scenes!) -Insert a mid-climax between Corona and Monstropolis, with a return to Radiant Garden. Seriously needed to unbloat the climax and evenly redistribute the story. You could do some of this: 1. Meet the FF peeps and conclude their plot with RG’s redemption (How cool would be to hear Leon finally say “you can call me Squall”?); see how everyone is doing and how they interact with the people like Ienzo and the apprentices who caused RG to fall. We could setup the replica/sea-salt trio better here (Roxas body/who and how Xion/further Axel redemption), even though it’s probably the best thread currently, behind SDG. The FF folks were foundational to the start, they should at least be acknowledged in the end. 2. Give. Us. Sephiroth version 3.0. and resolution to that thread. 3. Have some seriously needed interaction among the Destiny Trio—(A) as individuals (sorely needed for Riku and Kairi–have her interact with her forgotten home!), (B) as a united friendship (Kairi/Riku, plz!) and © to set up the SoKai stuff better. Like, for real, we need to be able to take selfies with them—seriously, how could we have the phone and NEVER have a change to selfie with our OG friends?!) 4. Save Aqua here (don’t make her passively suck suddenly with OOC decisions) and then Ven; cement their return and relationships to everyone else (so as to stop rushing the finale and let their moment have its own power—just say they need to “rest” till the climax). 5. Tell wtf happens with Demyx. Set up Vexen/Ansem stuff better. Nomura, you could even tease Subject X girl more. C’mon. Have a tease-fight with the Org, rather than saving it all for the end.

6. It would probably be too much to ask to have Kairi and/or Riku accompany Sora the rest of the way, though it would be dearly needed. So have them do something interesting and important with their time post-RG. Make RG/HB the hub world, returning to it for various stuff. Play up Repliku, Namine, and Roxas/Xion in their hearts so we feel more invested in their persons and, thus, more catharsis when they are retrieved. -Expand on the lovely “calm before the storm” moments for our heroes—especially the Destiny Trio. Have the paopu moment, but don’t rush it so much. Have Riku, Sora, and Kairi doing something together. Have Axel engaging with someone about Xion/Roxas—along with the good Isa stuff. Show us what Mickey, Donald, and Goofy are doing -together-. -At Keyblade Graveyard opening, don’t make everyone suddenly suck. Why is Aqua not reacting -at all- to Terranort killing Ventus? What was the point of Kairi’s “infinite time training” if she just stands there so Sora can, also, not draw his Keyblade? Why are Riku and Mickey just twiddling their thumbs? Have everyone be badass, but still get beaten—then do all the interesting Final World stuff, with Riku’s words keeping Sora encouraged in death while SHOWING Kairi, as a PoH, still in the Realm of Light, somewhere in the tornado, ACTIVELY WORKING to keep Sora’s hanging on in the FW, rather than including her passively after. Or show her doing something beforehand. Just show some damn agency and the profound bonds of the Destiny Trio.

-Make the Namine scene here mandatory—I can’t fathom why they’d let that crucial plot point pass as optional.

-Keep sick final-boss rush, but don’t make everyone take a heel-turn redemption (and give us some team-up limits with everyone! Riku/Sora limit! Sora/Kairi limit! Sora/Roxas limit! SoRiKai Limit!). Marluxia and Xemnas needed to be more ambiguous in death. Luxord, Larxene, Xion, Vanitas, YX, Terranort, Xigbar, and Repliku were all great—even perfect. Saix needed to prove himself more, and there’s NO WAY Ansem SoD can suddenly be sympathetic like that. Slow it down. -Give the Xion-return moment to Kairi—not Sora. It’s perfect for her; she’d remember her because she is made of her. Gives Kairi agency and unique engagement for the both of them. Keep giving other characters agency in these moments other than Sora—let Aqua and Ven play centerstage in returning Terra, rather than Sora’s magic. Don’t make Sora the savior of every story—it feels cheap and demeans the character journeys we’ve been invested in for so long when they don’t play an active and significant role in their resolution. -Don’t have Kairi just be kidnapped again after 30-seconds of scripted fighting, after promising to -finally- invest in her immensely untapped potential. Have Saix (+Xemnas?) versus Sora, Xion, Roxas, Kairi, and Axel (also, explain how Axel got his keyblade -back-). Axel, even though he couldn’t face Xemnas, still has -powerful- character moments—at least give Kairi the same respect. Make that the last scripted battle, so that Kairi accompanies Sora to meet Mickey and Riku. -Either have Kairi use her infinite-training to join the fight with Xemnas, Ansem, and YX (to resonate that the whole Destiny Trio is together at the end, evolved, but together) or have her doing something else important (maybe with, I dunno, PoH POWERS?!). Have her ACTIVELY sacrifice herself for Sora, mirroring what he did for her in KH1, rather than MX passively killing her for no good goddamn reason while snarking at the camera that Kairi exists literally only for Sora’s motivation—even though Sora was already charging MX. Also show Riku have some damn emotion about his other best-friend. Sorry, I’m reaallly salty here. -Don’t have MX give up so easily, and get his motivation to work better with what came before in all these years. Don’t swap it out to something else in literally the last 30 minutes of the game. Don’t let the story treat flippantly him being the cause of everyone’s pain and suffering , as he is given a divine “thumbs-up” by turning into a kid with his best bud, giggling, and floating away into the light of Kingdom Hearts. What was that? Xehanort deserves better than that. Have him struggle to the end, and have our heroes really counter him—thematically, emotionally, and physically. Have Eraqus usher him away—stubborn to the end. If you want to redeem him, Nomura, you gotta be setting that stuff up WAAAAAY earlier. -Have anyone, anyone, other than Sora also care that Kairi is now missing. Have Riku and Sora go together to find her—because, you know, they’re BFFs and have the power to. Preferably explain and make it playable how they do that. Then have the lovely ending with Namine returning and with everyone together (except redeem Isa better). Keep everyone’s great new clothes, and have the whole party on the beach—end happily, with everyone (seemingly) together again in satisfied bliss. Wrap up the saga on a cathartic high note, for goodness’ sake. Then, and only then, Nomura gets to keep his ending—but in its proper place, separate in our minds from the ending-ending, in which we can feel full satisfaction for 16 years of investment. -In the Epilogue, before going to the Foretellers, show Sora, Kairi, and Riku leaving the Island. Riku and Kairi are on ahead, everything seems happy and complete (joking about Sora finally getting his mom’s dinner, eh?), when suddenly Sora hears the echo of YX telling him that “there’s a cost for it all” and that “it’s too late for him”—suddenly, Sora fades away. Show Riku/Kairi reactions -together-. Fade his fading into the dust of the Keyblade Graveyard. Do all the Epilogue. Do the Secret Ending. Everything on whatever track Nomura wants—but for us, the audience, all of us, we FINALLY GET SOLID, CATHARTIC CLOSURE FOR EVERYONE IN THIS SAGA AFTER 16 YEARS—WITHOUT IT ALL BEING TEASER BAIT FOR SOME UNION CROSS/TWEWY CROSSOVER COMBINED WITH NOMURA’s OBSESSIVE BITTERNESS OVER FFv13! Sorry, also salty about that. -Secret Ending is Riku AND Kairi going together to find Sora in Shibuya. Boom. -Also, for all our sakes, get rid of the concept of worldlines and minimize the time travel here, plz. That’s the quickest way to undermine the stakes of your story. Tl;dr: Give us more of the characters and their agency, don’t have them act OOC for bad plotting, give us a mid-climax to slow down the rushed 3-hour ending, let us appreciate what’s happening with more characterization, explain some things better, don’t fridge Kairi (and everyone other than Sora, really), give us a real, cathartic ending for 16 years of investment—then tease us in the epilogue/secret. Thoughts? Too much to ask? Too little? I tried only to make only minimal changes to Nomura’s vision, adjusted to some universally shared criticisms among fans. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this and what you liked/didn’t like! If you liked this at all, I’ve been writing Kingdom Hearts at Fanfiction under the name “Marsuvees” (with hopefully increasing quality) for over ten years. I love this series deeply, and hope Nomura can get it back on track next time. He really needs to get other people involved in writing and plotting.