#After a year of critiquing Viv and her shows and being a fandom as toxic as HH & HB I just needed a break | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

teeth-cable · 5 months

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Have you seen The Amazing Digital Circus yet?

If so, what's your opinion on it?

I LOVE TADC! It’s my favorite indie show at the moment! There’s just so much I like about it but my main ones are

1. The setting and execution being unique. A horror-like project taking place in an late 90s/early 2000s digital game is not a new idea and same goes with characters being stuck in a purgatory however it’s how the artists reinvent those idea that makes it new. The digital Circus made its own aesthetic that makes it stand out from other projects with similar concepts and designs. When I first watched the pilot, one of many things that stuck out to me was how new the story ideas felt. I couldn’t think of any other pieces of media similar to TADC beside for surface-level comparisons. The TADC created its own aesthetic and knows what it wants to be and I like it!

2. Soundtrack. Speaks for itself, the soundtrack for the pilot is so good especially Your New Home. That song is very catchy and emotional too. It has such a unique melody, everytime you hear the first few notes you instantly recognize it. It does a great job highlighting the dread and existentialism crisis of Pomni’s situation. I recommend to give it a listen if you haven’t.

3. The characters dynamics. I just love how the characters interact with each other. The majority of the jokes comes from characters’ interactions and dynamics and how well everyone plays off of each other. The best example is Jax with everyone, Jax is a funny jerk who likes bullying his peers. It’s funny to see what creative ways Jax will bully the other people whether it’s being sarcastic and making quips at them, or though goofy pranks and how the characters react because of their contrast in personality. Every character beside Jax is openly stressed or worried in someway while Jax, at first seem like a chill layback dude.

4. The characters differences. I adored the differences between each character from how they talk to their poses. After watching HH and HB, I learned to have an appreciation for character differences. It’s just refreshing to see characters allowed to be different instead of the same tired reused tropes and repeating the same type of dialogue again for every character.

5. Mystery and lore. There is so much to explore in the pilot, it’s make you wanting more. When going in to watch the pilot, I made the mistake of thinking the series will be predictable. I didn’t see how they could make this premise work because by the end of it, Pomni will go insane but then I watched the pilot and was speechless. The pilot does a good job setting up questions for the audience to ask. If Caine lied about the exit, what are other things did he lied about? How long has the cast been stuck in the circus? Who are these people? Are they previous game developers? Who were they in their previous lives? What is the company’s motivation to create the headset? What are the abstractions in game? Are they viruses to the game program? Who were the former cast? What horrors has Kinger seen to be as paranoid and easily frighten as he is now? Do the abstractions still have a consciousness? You just want to find out more about the lore to solve the many mysteries in the show. I find it impressive Gooseworx was able to stir up the theorists because they have admitted in an ask, there are already theories floating around that are almost right about the show.

One problem I did have for the pilot were the scenes containing the Gloink Queen. The pacing of the pilot was fine until we got to her then it was slow. I feel it dragged longer than it needed too but beside that, my issues for the pilot ends.

I can’t speak for the fandom on other platforms but the tumblr one is great! Most of the time everyone is being respectful towards each other and I love seeing what creative theories, AU, fanfics, and art the fans created. The only people causing drama are the anti-shippers, and it’s just dumb. All of the cast are adults, if age gaps ships makes people uncomfortable, that’s valid but they shouldn’t make it into other people’s problems. Gooseworx themselves admitted they don’t care for romance and they don’t want fans in the fandom getting harassed over shipping.

Overall despite what issues I had for the pilot and fandom, they’re overshadowed by the positives and I can’t wait to see the full show and the fandom’s growth.

#꧁rambles꧂#➥asks #the amazing digital circus #The TADC is the indie show and fandom I needed #After a year of critiquing Viv and her shows and being a fandom as toxic as HH & HB I just needed a break #I’m still active as you can see but barely posting and critiquing the shows anymore #I do check the critical tags every now and again to catch up and I’m just not interested in consuming any Viv’s content anymore #The last Ep I saw from HB was Unhappy Campers and the last video related to HH was the Happy Day in Hell one #I kinda don’t see the point of being very active on my HH amounts when I’m no longer watching Viv and I think everything to Viv is regressi #Viv is getting more careless about how she presents herself online and people are starting to noticed how much of an ass she really is #responding on a funny shitpost of “If the TADC was written by Viv” lightly making fun of her and she blew up once again #I’ve seen creators with a decent size following in other platform not just Twitter called her out and Viv and the fandom is be the-#reasons why Hazbin will fail #Her fandoms are notorious for being toxic/ fans going out of their way to attack not just haters but anyone who doesn’t praise Viv 24/7 #Viv is actively creating toxic environment in her fanbases so she can protect herself from criticism and allegations behind her fans #But because of this Viv is contributing to the future downfall of Hazbin because no one wants to be associated with her because of her fanb #There’s just no reason to stay around #If the reaction to the Prime’s video Happy Day in Hell from outsiders is mixed then the reaction will be too for the full release #Plus the general attitude towards Viv has changed over the last three years #Despite her previous controversies she was see as a respectful creator but now views are mixed #People see her as the indie creator whose show took a nose drive in season 2/doesn’t pay her employees/is immature/and is now seen in a-#more negative light

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pinkandpurple360 · 4 months

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im not even a huge fizzarozzie stan, but why are you so obsessed with warping the ship into being this huge dumpsterfire of toxicity that fizz needs to leave in order to reunite with his “soulmate” blitzo?

“Ozzie doesn’t understand him” bruh Ozzie is literally the only person who understands him he said so himself. And even the person who you’re closest toowill be kinda perplexed if the guy you hated for 10+ years suddenly becomes your bestie.

“They’ll be taking some time apart and might take a look at this codependency issue.” - lol no way viv’s doing that lol shes going all in on them being a duo. Like dont get me wrong I think they’re a bit too uwu joined at the hip for me but it’s not this horrible ship where fizz is kept in a gilded birdcage forever.

“I think karma will hit him and he’ll get his own version of what he put Moxxie through. Specifically Asmodeus, Fizz to a lesser extent.” in a perfect world I’d actually hope this would happen but considering Viv portrayed all of Hell as fangirls for them, this is 1000% Not Happening.

”Fizz definitely isn’t his first ever love, if the demonology is anything to go by. The story of Sarah in the Book of Tobit is Asmodeus’ most famous story so to exclude that would be a disservice to the character.” Viv spoils her plot points through Twitter likes, she confirmed Tobit/all demonology stories aren’t canon to Helluva unless directly stated :/ and she’s liked many versions of tweets basically saying Ozzie has never had romantic feelings ever until Fizz and never will again after he dies.

and Blitzø is his own brand of fucked up, even more so than Fizz and Ozzie combined. No way in hell those two would work out without some SERIOUS therapy on Blitzø’s end.

I think you actually clearly are a big fizzarozzie fan? you’re blowing the one time someone criticises the ship out of proportion, getting defensive, and using dramatic words like “obsessed” “warping” and “soulmate” I’m literally the 1% here. There are lots of shipping spaces you can go instead. The way the fandom treats this ship like a fragile gem shows it could do with some looking at. When people refuse to let you critique something that’s how you know it’s hiding some problems.

Who is warping anything by just noticing the events that happen and interpreting them in a way you don’t agree with?

Oz misunderstands him more than he understands. They bicker, they miscommunicate, and in the end they try again. and it isn’t all about blitz, because Oz never understood why he needed to compete in the contest at the start of Oops, he doesn’t notice fizz hiding things from him, he doesn’t listen to fizz when he worries that eyes are around, and confesses his love without Fizz fully agreeing to it. Sure Fizz hugs him or laughs it off but can’t they have some agreement on when it’s a secret and when it isn’t? He doesn’t understand Fizzs identity crisis, his need for approval from mammon, his past, any of it.

Viv also likes Crimson x Chaz fanart, art of ValAngel and Vox being a couple, art of Fizz dying, art of him being immortal, art of characters dating ocs. Art of her own self inserts, art of Blitz shape shifting into a dragon, art of Blitz and Fizz having reciprocated love, art of Alessio being Moxxies stepdad, Etc etc. That’s not enough to go on.

“The first and last time he’ll ever experience love” that is just plain weird. And obsessive. Not to mention bad writing. I’ve never heard anyone talk like that. He’s way too possessive of Fizz. He has to live his entire life with Asmodeus and die in his arms in his tower where’s he’s all alone? I hope not. That’s almost worse than him being made an immortal imp.

“She’s going all in on them being a duo” what are you talking about. Like what does this mean. She also said a main character might die and some of them don’t get happy endings.

What do you mean it’s 1000% not happening? Denial much? It already did in S2E6, with the article, the way the staff negatively react, the fact mammon said he’ll regret revealing it? The people at the show are literally Fizzarolli’s fandom, safe to say they aren’t everyone.

All demonology is not canon is just a straight up not factual statement, she makes constant references to demonology. His design is inspired by it, his apparent disapproval of monogamy is inspired by it, why would his biggest story not be referenced whatsoever? Isn’t it possible that Ozzie had his heart broken before and that’s why he’s afraid? Dang. Chill out.

As for your last paragraph, I think you just hate Blitz, ignore the fact that he’s going through development, and need to chill out. Pump the breaks a lil. Soulmates don’t exist.

#helluva boss critical #fizzarozzie critical

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uninformedartist · 1 year

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Mini vent: CW

Well now I have reflected and I completely removed myself from helluva boss as a show and fandom/ hazbin I'll see the show and decide then but fandom I'm out. I've taken off the rose glasses and see the fandom for what it truly is, a fanfiction fetish fest focused on the most deplorable things (abuse for an example), behaviours and thrives on toxicity. Its just plain horrible and my soul I cannot believe I stuck around thinking "oh thats just that one person" "oh maybe change will happen". No, its a hive mind of toxic and if you dont agree or indulge in it you're put on blast. I posted my slight optimism on the helluva ep this weekend but after seeing a specific fan comic on twitter that made me so sick (this person is a prominent fandom artist, won't mention) I'm done, gone and good riddance that was the last straw. I won't make any posts related to these shows fandom related. I'll check out honest reviews and criticism and make small criticism/comments here and there from me in the critique tags. Sigh years of being a Viv supporter, inspired by her art I just can't anymore, sorry you cultivated a bad fandom.

#helluva boss criticism #hazbin hotel critique #vent post #I'm in other fandoms that give me much greater joy :-)

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weaselbeaselpants · 4 years

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I have a lot to say and not enough time to say it. It hurts, but ya’ll know what this is about so if you want my full fandom retrospective opinion thing guys, here.

I’ve been following Vivienne’s art and career since I found her on dA in 2009. I’ve basically grown up with her and have a wide range of opinions up and down her collective work. I must stress that I do not know her as a person and no matter how critical I get in my personal time if I somehow met her in real life or converse with her online again (like, back in the day we went back and forth. She was pretty nice to me), I’d be humble and congratulate her for her success.

Critique does not, EVER equate to attacking people.

But

the reason I don’t call myself a VivziePopVivzmind-fan is the exact same as to why I don’t like the proud use of ‘anti’. Let me try and explain -

The vast majority of Viv fans are just that: fans. Viv’s one of their favorite artists and they’re happy for her and obviously defensive when some mouth breather pops into their fan discussion calling her and all of them trash. Quite a lot of the Hazbin fans I know in my circle of friends are all pretty accepting and agree on the problematic notions and implications of her work.

HOWEVER, there’s a vocal minority in the VivziePop fandom that were and still are toxic. Their specific interest in Viv back in the day was toxic...and now that she’s moved on into a successful career I doubt they’ve gone away, considering the things I’ve heard. These people - they’d flood Viv’s comments sections and stuff with messages like they were talking to her when they weren’t and they’d unironically call her a god in a way that feels like gaslighting, ex: “I’ll NEVER be as good as you Viv! My art is just sooooo unpopular oh god you are incredible no one will ever like you as much as meeeee”. It made me uncomfortable. It made me not want to be around her because these people took Viv’s role in their lives so seriously and their demand for her attention...it struck a nerve.

These same fans have been around long enough to see actual shitlords - the likes of Kiwifarms and tapatalk wikis - come in and actually harass Viv. Viv’s been sent revenge porn by sick freaks who think they’re funny and believe she deserves it. No. In my non-name fan bystander opinion, Viv’s got some shit to work on, but no one deserves raperevenge porn. EVER. It was genuinely bad and yes Viv and her base have every reason to NOT TRUST these communities. Unfortunately, when these incidents happened, these particular fans took it upon themselves to gatekeep the fandom and act like Viv’s unofficial guard against any kind of decenting opinion of her, all without her say so.

((to the critics who will be all “but Viv or Faust said THIS to their fans-”, like I said, Viv’s far from perfect but regardless of how much she prolly wanted people to side with her I’m gonna guess that she didn’t want people sending transphobic death threats to DollCreep. Again, and this is coming from a bystander here, I have a feeling Viv knows about some of the toxicity but doesn’t know how/want to address it - which is a conversation all it’s own.))

This particular breed of VivziePop “fan” holds so much toxicity in her fandom(s). They aren’t the only cause, but they’re there. They feel entitled to her attention and her approval. They creep me out. Having spoken to other much-less critical admitted fans of Viv around me, these fans appear to creep everyone else out and put the rest of the fandom on edge. They’re gatekeepers. They’re creeps. Like the bronies and SU fans of yestertodayyears, they know harassment exists and that people have crossed the line - so they think any means is necessary to prevent that is automatically good. I could pile together all the incidents and folks who’ve had bad runs ins with this aftershock of Viv-obsession, but I do have a life of my own and this post is already stupid long so I’ll just list out the biggest examples and provide receipts when asked.

Critical blogs have gotten RAPE and death threats because they don’t like Viv’s art. HonestZoophobiaCriticisms, a blog I interracted with back in the day, def got one. Now Viv’s opinion of crit-blogs is that they’re “bad takes” but I can assure you she doesn’t want that shit being said on her behalf.

I’ve seen young artists get blacklisted from sites and forums cause they so much as post a redesign. Viv and co get told through the grapevine that someone’s making hatespeech and so preemptively block said person (prolly cause they’re in the middle of WORKING and can’t deal right now) only to find out after the fact that no, it was just a kid drawing their version of her characters. There’s serious miscommunication issues within the fandom about who’s ‘good’ or ‘bad’ and once you get the actual staff involved in this game of telephone you’re begging for trouble. The problem acknowledged, however, it’s souly from the “Viv never did anything wrong camp”. No word is said about how ugly the fandom is under the surface it’s all one type of person’s fault and not complicated’. Blah

I’ve only ever had ONE obsessive ‘fan’ who’d stalk me, mock me, and then redraw my art just to get attention from me. That shit fucked with my head. As a follower hundreds of miles away from Viv who’s agreed/disagreed with her through the years - I absolutely believe her when she says she hates ‘creeps’ and that she doesn’t want anyone in her fandom spreading hate on her behalf. It’s the one thing about her I’m POSITIVELY sure of. Whether she believes that said underlying harassment exists and/or is even a problem within her fandoms is anyone’s guess. That’s not what I’m here for. I’m here to write stupid blog entries like this, talk about fandoms and media and how they and the real world affect one another, and rb fan art I like. I’m cautiously optimistic fan with a side of salt.

Mixed opinions and critique within a fandom CAN and SHOULD exist. Hazbin Hotel has been greenlit by a studio! It has a product line of merchandise you buy. Helluva Boss is getting eight more episodes this coming year (yeeee:3yeeee). Two of Viv’s properties are now products. Nothing is immune from critique. And in critique you will find a lot of people who are not ‘nice’. Critique or analysis doesn’t have to be nice. There will be, in Viv’s words’ ‘bad takes’ on her writing. Maybe they will be actual CinemaSins-styled bad takes or maybe Viv is just mad that people don’t love and feel inspired by her characters the way she wants them to - it’s a fact she’s going to have to get used to.

((TBH, I’m pretty sure she’s already realized that criticism of all types need to exist. It’s just that, again, her and the SpindleHorse staff are kind of overwhelmed by all matter of takes and opinions coming their way they kinda can’t deal weeding out the fair ones from the assholes, so she lumps them all together.))

Shitposters, ironic fans, unironic fans, critical fans, just critics of Hazbin and Helluva CAN and WILL exist. They should exist and not feel threatened by the megafandom. There are people out there who are one step further and rightfully bothered by Hazbin/Helluva’s use of incorrect symbols, portrayal of certain topics, and the response by creators. These people have strong opinions and are actually disgusted by Viv. They deserve to exist too and should not be vilified because, like me, they’re commentary doesn’t consist of anything personal towards the people at Spindlehorse or the fans of her works. They can rant, they can be professional, they can be petty and they can be fair. But they will exist. You have to deal with it.

I am an ADD/OCD ridden autistic woman with serious anxiety issues who has no one to talk to half the time and so only HAS my fandom to communicate with. But that’s just it - it’s a fandom. A community. You have to learn to not think souly of yourself and of others in a community. A fandom doesn’t exist just for you or any one person. You have the right to be angry and defend or be offended. And it’s in the spirit of that that I ask, prrraaaaaay even, that I please

NOT BE CALLED AN “ANTI-ANTI” for not liking the moniker?!

I DON’T TO BE AN “ANTI”. Not ironically, not unironically. ‘Anti’ should be for politics and shit like pedophiles, necrophiles, nazis, serial killer stans, Trump, racists, antisemites, terfs, animal abusers, rapists, and antivaxxers. Anti should only come into critical media analysis when these ethical issues follow suit IN TO fandom discussion. ((EX: Anime and MLP proudly waving their cp and non-con into the public eye; Hazbin appropriating cultural symbols which are not satanic; Basically anything that concerns John K or Butch Hartman.))

If your DNI list unironically consists of the entirety of one fandom: CONGLATURATIONS! You have done the exact same thing these particular creepy Viv fans have done: monopolize the conversation. And yes, people I’m referring to, IT’S STILL A PROBLEM EVEN IF YOU’RE FIGHTING RACISM/SEXISM/HOMOTRANSPHOBIA.

There are hundreds of Vivziefans who ARE more critical, accepting of faults, interested in discussion and especially rewrite and redesign stuff who would LOVE to engage with you and give you a follow. There’s hundreds of people who no doubt agree with you!

But the thing I’ve seen these very proud AntiHazbinVivzieHelluvaWhatever blogs do is lash out at fans for continuing to like Viv and consume Viv’s art in a healthy way. What the actual fuck is your problem?

I get it. Say a crazy Hazbin fan gets on your case for even SUGGESTING Viv could be homophobic ((”SHE’SBIANDWORKSWITHGAYPPLblahablahblah”)). They get in your face, make some callouts, try to rile up support against you, leave disgusting harassment throughout your social media? Absolutely ban worthy. After that it’s perfectly understandable why you don’t want to engage with anything HHHBZPVivzierelated because you’re so fucking tired of being labeled an abuser or “just jealous” for having an opinion on a show you don’t like. I’m with you!

But,

A fan agrees that something in the canon is bad or that Viv did something they don’t like?

A fan likes your silly shitpost meme?

A fan asks if they can like Hazbin and follow you at the same time?

A fan does fan art of something you don’t like?

If your response to any of these ^^^ things is to get LOUD and accusatory, Vivsplain them about how they’re an absolutely awful person to ever question YOUR opinion, or just block them without a second thought? You’re a petty, vendictive shit and you also need to learn to let things go. I’m sorry but you do. As I already said, Viv’s work is a brand at this point, not just the work of a singular person. As such, there are gonna be mixed opinions and you can’t judge every single one of these people by what they like. You’re a shitty critic with a shitty attitude and yes that will demean the value of what you’re saying. This is bad because, if you’re trying to point out how Angel Dust’s abuse IS handled terribly; gay rep in Viv’s work is weak and terrible; the show appropriates closed practices; the fandom makes excuses for predatory artists and creepy behavior and individuals who have sketchy pasts - I’M WITH YOU. WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS SHIT. JUST BECAUSE THESE ARE ADULT CARTOONS SET IN HELL MEANS THERE SHOULD BE ANYTHING CLOSE TO 2013 PONY-TUMBLR. <<<---- this shit is as important to me as it is to you and I really don’t like being called an abuser or apologist for saying “hey maybe blowing up at ppl for the shows they like ISN’T the way to go about this”.

But I have, just like the good old days of 2015 Zoophobia of yore, been blocked because I admit to being tired of ‘Anti’ being equated to ‘critical’. Same with hater.

Critical DOES NOT = Anti+Hater. I’m fucking tired of people saying it does and I’m tired of people taking up the term as some weird form of fandom reappropriation. It’s stupid.

Tl;dr: Once upon a time, I was in a budding fandom for something I liked made by an indie artist I watched on dA. I wanted to be a bigger fan than I was already, but was told by toxic people within said fandom that I couldn’t be part of it for reasons they’d made up in their head about my ‘motives’ against Viv. My admiration for Viv or what I liked about Zoophobia didn’t matter because I thought the story was really rushed and people weren’t being truthful with how they really felt about it - ergo, I HAD TO GO.

Flash forward 8 years later- My opinion of Viv’s body of work has changed but I still find myself in love with her style and some of her characters. I want to be on a forum or service that gives a healthy look at the problems there are with this series and fandom...and I’m met repeatedly by petty bs where people are again at each other’s throats. And yes, I do think it’s causing more harm than good especially when you insist there’s a “x person shouldn’t be trusted” mentality when fighting actual fucking racist, xenophobic, predatory bullshit.

#vivziepop #vivziepop critical #vivziepop drama #hazbin hotel #hazbin critical #hazbin hotel critical #critical hazbin hotel #anti anti #antis #anti hazbin hotel #cause I want both sides of this debaucle to see this and I'm tired #K?

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