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problemswithbooks · 21 days

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BNHA Ch. 419

Haven't had much to say about the chapters lately. I didn't really find the fight between Shigaraki and Izuku very exciting and was checking up on leaks just to see if the ending had dropped yet.

But I was actually really excited to see this new development in 419.

I always suspected and hoped AfO gave Tenko decay and manipulated the situation so he wasn't saved. Now, we don't know if AfO orchestrated Tenko not being saved by a Hero during his trauma walk, but it was would be a little weird if he didn't after it's been revealed he had a hand in almost every aspect of Tenko's life.

I know a lot of fans are bumped by this choice or think it ruins his character, but personally it fixes a lot of my issues with how Shigaraki has been portrayed.

The main thing (as long as AfO did mess with Tenko being saved) is that it fixes the huge world building mistake that Tenko's backstory relies on. Now, I'm not a huge fan of the ridiculousness of Touya's backstory either, where this young teen in hospital clothes runs around a rich neighborhood, but that's not the core of his identity as a villain either. The thing that mattered was that Enji was still training Shoto so Touya thought his death didn't change anything.

Tenko's origin just straight up does not make sense with everything else we've been shown about this world. By the time Tenko was born Heroes were everywhere and beloved. We've never been shown anywhere else in the story that Heroes wouldn't help a child wandering around bloody on the streets actively asking for help. Even with civilians, claiming they rely to much on Heroes doesn't fix this because why wouldn't one of the thousands he walked by go get a Hero. I mean people report stuff all the time, and it'd give them an excuse to interact with what their society deems a celebrity.

It also makes AfO look stupid. Tenko is his golden ticket--he's putting all this effort into him, he's the only person he wants/can use for his goals. Why risk a Hero or caring civilain helping him? It would ruin his entire plan if anyone even showed a small kindness to Tenko. For someone who claims to plan everything, that's taking way to many chances.

I know the people that hated this reveal think it kneecaps the message of 'Hero Society bad', but I don't necessarily think the story was ever really trying to say that. It has issues and needs some fixing, but it's not what Shigaraki wanted--he wanted total destruction. It also explains why a bunch of stuff Shigaraki said didn't make sense with what we've been shown. He thinks the things he does because he's been lied to or set up in a way where that's the only conclusion he could come to.

And it's not as if all of Tenko's pain/suffering being caused by AfO makes BNHA society perfect. Spinner still faced racist discrimination, Toga's Quirk made her feel ostracized, Dabi was neglected and abused by his father who was a Hero, Twice is the poster child of the 'one bad day' motto. Shigaraki's origin is villainy itself and with AfO's own origin, a good argument of why Heroes exist. Now the entire core characters of the League have differeing backstories instead of Shigaraki just being a combo of them all, with some AfO manipulation sprinkled in.

It makes him a better foil for Izuku as well, since just like Izuku is often referred to as an empty puppet, Tenko could be viewed this way too. This is something Izuku can connect and help Tenko with when he comes back (because it'd be insane if he was just dead now). The one thing Shigaraki does have is a Heroic heart. Yes, AfO might have set some things up to get him to be that way, but you can't force someone to be altruistic or caring of others. Tenko cares about outcasts and his friends--that's still a part of him, even if it was nurtured by AfO for nefarious purposes.

So, yeah, that's my thoughts on 419. Actually sort of excited to see what happens next.

#bnha 419 #bnha spoilers #bnha #mha #bnha manga

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problemswithbooks · 26 days

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continuously pissed off and disappointed by mha writing decisions but unfortunately i got into mha when i was sad and 13 meaning i have formed an indestructable bond with it that i'll never be free of so now i have to deal with obsessing over it for multiple months every 2 years or i will explode. it is what it is

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problemswithbooks · 30 days

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First off, I will apologize if my tag somehow brought you bad anons. Maybe my tumblr functions differently then other peoples (sadly a real possibility given tumblr's glitches) but re-blog chains like this don't show up under tags I search/look at. I tagged it with the shows title for myself so it'd show up if I searched my own blog for HoTD/Fire and Blood stuff.

Using a REBELLION to prove how law works

And? That's bad why?

You were saying that as King whatever Viserys says goes--that he is the law. My argument was that it doesn't matter. Just like people today break laws (some because they're stupid, some because they are actually bad people) it's not crazy that people broke them back then. Viserys did something that at least enough of his lords disliked enough to start a war. His word being law doesn't stop people from disagreeing or going against those decisions.

My point of bringing up the rebellion was to show that just saying "well, Viserys is king so whatever he says goes" isn't really an argument. Law or not if what he does is unpopular enough it can cause a war--something he should have taken into account more.

Calling a hypothetical situation answering to a hypothetical ask fan-fiction on my part, really does showcase your comprehension skills.

My comprehension skills are bad because I pointed out that you rebuffing Anon's hypothetical solution with another hypothetical situation you presented as what would 100% happen instead as fan fiction. It was fan fiction, as was, what anon said was--or at least the premise for one.

The reason I took such issue with your response was because it's not backed up by the source marital yet you presented it as the right answer over anon's. You just assume that they would be awful to Rhyaenyra and kill her because after they failed to marry her to Aegon II they started doing cruel things to undermine her in a second attempt to get what they wanted. We have no way of knowing if they had been married if the Greens would have been satisfied with that alone.

If Alicent's children were all girls, the throne would easily pass to Rhaenyra with no problem, even with Hightower ambition. Oldest>Younger.

Why though? You present the Greens and Alicent as super ambitious. If they were that dead set on the Throne why wouldn't they still try. They might not have had the advantage of having a son and working that angle. but why not do other nefarious things? You believe they would kill Rhaenyra had she married Aegon II but why wouldn't they try and do that if they only had daughters?

Again not saying this is totally true--we have no way of knowing. My point was that you paint the Hightowers as so power hungry they would do almost anything, so why wouldn't they still try for the throne if they only had girls?

Also tell me, what other merit did Aegon have over Rhaenyra aside from the fact he had a cock?

Didn't say he had some other merit then being a guy. I said that neither Rhaenyra or Aegon had merit past being Viserys's kids. I also pointed out that if the Greens are that ambitious and want the throne that badly, then they might not necessarily care that Aegon is a boy or not, and are just using that fact to their advantage because it is libel to get some other Lords on their side. Not saying that is the case; every single Green could have just believed boys are better then girls at sitting on the pointy chair, just saying it's possible.

Again calling this a 'history book', when you have no other argument to support your statement is also quite lovely. When you're against something, everything is true, but otherwise, it's just a history book written years later we don't know what actually happened.

I'm a bit confused where you got this idea from. I brought up that it was written like a history book to point out that we don't have inner character monologue because you brushed off Rhaenyra asking for Aemond to be tortured by saying she knew Viserys wouldn't do that. The only other time I really brought up the conflicting stories was saying that Aegon II might have taken the throne because he was told his family would be killed if he didn't.

I never said that was 100% the truth. Martin wrote the story to be have multiple accounts of events where readers decide which were true over others. It's not clear cut exactly what happened or how the characters felt about what happened or even what their inner motivations were. That's why I never said anything you said was completely unplausible, just that presenting your theories/hypotheticals as more valid then anon's is unfair.

Personally, I've always perceived Rhaenyra as an entitled brat. That was sort of how she was portrayed in the book. Daemon was pretty nasty as well, as he groomed Rhaenyra. He was teaching her "how best to touch a man to bring him pleasure," if Mushroom is to be believed.

I am inclined to believe Mushroom.

I think most of Rhaenyra's behaviors at Daemon's fault, but I do think that Rhaenyra is mad as she wanted to torture her little brother for calling her bastard children 'bastards'. That isn't sane behavior, and nothing really excuses it. Aemond really was defending himself.

Alicent should have asked for Rhaenyra's boys to be swatted on the hands wooden spoon a good few times, not an eye. (Lucerys should not have had a dagger. Why would a child need a dagger?)

I don't think anyone thought Rhaenyra was still heir after Aegon was born. Viserys literally broke the laws of the entire realm for her.

War was inevitable, and there was nothing Rhaenyra could have done aside from marrying her infant brother.

I don't know if you've been asked something like this before. I also have no idea if the background to my question makes sense, but do you think there was any way Rhaenyra could have become Queen without breaking laws, murdering kin, and or bloodshed?

Who started breaking laws? —The Greens

Who started murdering kin?—The Greens

Who started bloodshed?— The Greens

In a monarchy, which Westeros is and has been for THOUSANDS of years the king's words is the law. Not that of his predecessors, but of the present ruling monarch.

Viserys named his 8 year old daughter as his heir, he varied from custom yes, but never broke law. HE IS THE LAW.

Viserys also broke custom by marrying Alicent, a daughter of a second son and not a ruling lord. A woman that could not give him anything of importance, not money, not a fleet, not any great allegiance. He married her simply because loved her. Being the second time he broke CUSTOM for a woman he loved. Rhaenyra and Alicent.

Even if Viserys allowed his 16 year old daughter to be wed to her 6 year old brother, you think that would prevent war? You people are simply stupid if you think so. Aegon (Otto & Alicent) could easily imprison Rhaenyra and simply put it out as she died, or simply even just end her life. And obviously with their children being young(if they had any, very unlikely) Aegon could crown himself as king rather than prince consort. And do you really think Alicent would let her precious son be king consort to a wanton woman? We see this with Jaehaerys' children Daenerys and Aemon.

I don't think anyone thought Rhaenyra was still heir after Aegon was born. Viserys literally broke the laws of the entire realm for her.

The Blacks? Literally many at court more than even the Greens supported Rhaenyra as heir. Even afterwards, during the war Rhaenyra had much more supporters than Aegon, even after her death.

Rhaenyra is mad as she wanted to torture her little brother for calling her bastard children 'bastards'. That isn't sane behavior, and nothing really excuses it. Aemond really was defending himself. Alicent should have asked for Rhaenyra's boys to be swatted on the hands wooden spoon a good few times, not an eye.

Right, Rhaenyra insisting for Aemond to be questioned sharply is mad but Alicent asking for a five year old's eye to be cut out is perfectly sane behaviour, yes? Be serious right now. Do you really think Viserys out of all people would let his son be tortured? Rhaenyra knew of that, she wanted Aemond to admit that his mother, Alicent has been spreading rumours abt easy as that.

It wasn't just for the insults either, Luke's nose was broken, Jace was hit in the head. And Joff was thrown into dragon droppings.

Afraid that the boy would raise the alarm, Prince Aemond shouted at him to be quiet, then shoved him backward into a pile of dragon droppings.

Aemond fought back, breaking Luke’s nose with a punch, then wrenching the sword from Joff’s hands and cracking it across the back of Jace’s head, driving him to his knees. As the younger boys scrambled back away from him, bloody and bruised, the prince began to mock them, laughing and calling them “the Strongs.”

Jace at least was old enough to grasp the insult. He flew at Aemond once again, but the older boy began pummeling him savagely…until Luke, coming to the rescue of his brother, drew his dagger and slashed Aemond across the face, taking out his right eye.

Aemond was TEN. Jace was SIX, Luke FIVE, Joff only THREE.

A 10 year old Pummeling (= boxing, repeatedly puching) and 6 year old is a perfectly good thing to do.

Lucerys should not have had a dagger. Why would a child need a dagger?

Because this child, is a prince? Almost everyone had daggers at that time, Kings, Queens, Princes, Princesses, Ladies, Lords, Commonborn, every one had daggers. They carried it for personal protection, even Lucerys.

Не was teaching her "how best to touch a man to bring him pleasure," if Mushroom is to be believed. I am inclined to believe Mushroom.

Even then, if Rhaenyra is such an 'entitled brat' why would she want to please the son of a steward of a Lord. And that too, not even a major Lord. Why would she want to please a no-one that became a someone because of HER.

Personally, I've always perceived Rhaenyra as an entitled brat. That was sort of how she was portrayed in the book.

She was portrayed as spoiled, yes. How could she not be? She came after many miscarriages and stillbirth, many other losses in the family. To her parents she was their first daughter, both of them motherless on their own. To Baelon, she was his first granddaughter after the loss of this wife, son, aemon and the rest of his siblings. To Jaehaerys and Alysanne, she was probably the first great-grandchild they met, she came after they lost most of their children (+Jocelyn who was as good as daughter, Rhaenys and probably never met her children till the feast and tourney of 98). She was a light in a time where her family was sinking from the inside.

I don't know how fighting for something that is yours, and have been for over TWENTY YEARS is seen as entitlement rather advocating and defending her own right?

There is someone who is portrayed as entitled, however. Alicent Hightower. Who thought simply because she popped out the King's son, means he should become a king. And this son who thought simply because he was a man with a cock, he was more fit to rule than a daughter without a cock.

Why should I explain the basic of things to strangers as if they're 5 and lack comprehension? Lol😭

#fire and blood #happy?#jeez #i get that people don't like the show but to be that pissed off by a tag is a bit much #especially when I never used the show in my argument #and if my post really doesn't show up in the HoTD tag #which is what i thought when I posted this the first time #then im not the cause of those anons #i have like 10 followers and none of them really care about game of thrones in general #they came here for BNHA #and liked the few posts i have of fourth wing #more likely those anons that watch the show found this blog the same why i did #through a character tag #cuz even if you don't tag the show if you tag the characters #people who watch the show will see it and not necessarily know you hate the show so much #i mean other blogs ive seen that hate the show will still talk about it #never seen someone flip out so much just because of a tag

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problemswithbooks · 1 month

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problemswithbooks · 1 month

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So, a few things:

In a monarchy, which Westeros is and has been for THOUSANDS of years the king's words is the law. Not that of his predecessors, but of the present ruling monarch. Viserys named his 8 year old daughter as his heir, he varied from custom yes, but never broke law. HE IS THE LAW.

While, yes a King/Queen is the 'law', that doesn't mean they can do anything they want. They maybe the law but if a monarch fucks up or makes choices that gets them on the bad side of their subjects, particularly their Lords, they will face consequences. Case in point, Aerys II, who fucked up so bad that he caused a huge rebellion and lost the Targaryens the Iron Throne.

Was Ned and Rober going against the 'law'--sure, but it doesn't matter. Aerys rule was so bad that he lost support of the Lords. Some stayed with him due to a mix of fear, and loyalty to his son, but in the end being the 'law' did not matter. Robert won and Aerys was killed by his own King's Guard.

Now, Viserys was not anywhere near as bad, but using the idea that because he's King he can do whatever he pleases without consequence isn't as strong of an argument as you think. Yes he can name his daughter as his Heir if he wants but that doesn't mean that won't cause issues, or that everyone will except it. Viserys was himself made King because the Lords preferred him over Rhaenys being a proxy Queen for her young son (it was never a vote between Viserys and Rhaenys, but Viserys and Laenor). Choosing Rhaenyra has Heir was always going to have some push back even before he had sons, and it does not appear Viserys did much to lessen or ease the path for her.

Viserys marrying Alicent wasn't against custom, in fact I'd argue it was actually a pretty good political move on his part. Sure, Otto was a second son, and the marriage doesn't necessarily earn him any great alliance, but the Hightowers are a rather powerful family, since they control the second most populace city in Westeros, that also has the Citadel and at the time the main house of Worship for the continents biggest religion.

On top of that Otto and Alicent have been dedicated, loyal servants of the crown since his grandfather's rule. In a way you could see this marriage as political reward for that dedication/loyalty to house Targaryen that they showed at the time.

Alicent also has a benefit that Laena didn't--her age. As much as some people hate on Viserys for remarrying and having more kids, it makes total sense. His grandfather had a many children yet none lived to actually sit the throne. If Rhaenyra died, which is always a possibility, the only back up he had was Daemon who was incredibly unpopular with the Lords and was very impulsive. Marrying someone that can have children ASAP is a smart move, which only backfired because shockingly every child he had lived (up until the Dance).

This is the main thing I wanted to talk about--this paragraph is complete fan-fiction and is not supported by anything in the text.

Where in the story does it in anyway say that Otto, Alicent or Aegon II would have locked up and secretly killed Rhaenyra if the two had been wed? Yes, Viserys, weirdly, gets annoyed that Otto/Alicent want their 'blood' on the throne, but that doesn't mean he thought they would kill Rhaenyra if he married them. Frankly, they would have no reason to do so anyway, since any children Rhaenyra and Aegon had would also be of their 'blood', so they would get what they wanted regardless.

The whole, 'Alicent wouldn't let her son be married to a wanton woman' line doesn't make any sense either since that accusation came after Viserys turned down the idea of wedding Aegon and Rhaenyra together. If Viserys had agreed to the marriage the Hightowers might not have bothered to try and smear Rhaenyra this way since, again they were getting what they wanted, their grandchildren on the Iron Throne.

Am I saying the Hightowers would never have done this? No. But it is disingenuous to act as if it is fact that they would--as if it is said in the book this was totally their plan. I could easily say they would have simply let Rhaenyra rule and everything would have been peaceful and perfect, but that would be equally unfounded and simply something I made up.

Also, if the Hightowers had enacted this plan it does in fact not lead to war, so your first sentence is wrong. Would it have been cruel and still ended with Rhaenyra dying, yes, but it would have in fact meant the Dance didn't happen. The only thing I could see is Daemon trying to over throw Aegon, but without the support Rhaenyra brought to the table, it's unlikely he would have gotten very far. The Velaryons might have helped him, but both Rhaenys and Corlys seem hesitant to go to war unless absolutely necessary. Unless Daemon had damning proof the Hightowers killed Rhaenyra, I doubt they'd join him in such a one sided fight (since they'd lack Rhaenyra and her sons' dragons as well as access to Dragonstone to acquire more).

Again, this is baseless. Fire and Blood is written like a history book. We do not get inside the characters heads. You have no way of knowing if Rhaenyra's threat to have Aemond tortured was just for show or not. It's also rather confusing because the rest of what you say makes it sound as if she did want him tortured to get info on Alicent spreading rumors and as revenge for Luke's broken nose, Jace getting hit in the head and Joff for being shoved in poop. So was it a bluff or wasn't it?

Also if what Rhaenyra said was a bluff, why is what Alicent said not also a bluff? Viserys would be just as unlikely to order his grandson's eye taken out. Could Alicent not have said what she did to try and defect Rhaenyra's demand for Aemond to be tortured?

As for the whole Aemond Vs. Rhaenyra's kids debacle, frankly it never made much sense to me. It doesn't make any sense that these very young children who are heirs to the throne on both sides were not being watched, and were just wandering around. Anon asked why Luke has a dagger, but the biggest question is really why any of these very young children, particularly the three year old were without supervision. They should all have nurse maids and guards. Also, why did Joff go get his brothers and not his mother, a gaurd or any adult? Why didn't his brothers?

They didn't because Martin wanted Aemond to lose an eye and cause a bigger rift between the Blacks and Greens. It's a poorly set up scene, that only happens for plot reasons. Frankly it makes everyone involved look like fools.

I don't know how fighting for something that is yours, and have been for over TWENTY YEARS is seen as entitlement rather advocating and defending her own right? There is someone who is portrayed as entitled, however. Alicent Hightower. Who thought simply because she popped out the King's son, means he should become a king. And this son who thought simply because he was a man with a cock, he was more fit to rule than a daughter without a cock.

They're literally all entitled--they're royalty. Rhaenyra is only Heir because her father said so. No one voted for her nor didn't she conquer the continent like Aegon did. Sure, the throne was hers, but again it's not as if she earned it while Aegon II didn't. Neither of them did anything that made them worthy to be Rulers. In both cases it comes down to who their father was.

Alicent probably did feel entitled to have her child on the throne, but again, it's no worse or better then Rhaenyra's entitlement. Culturally, it makes sense she felt that was what she was owed--getting your blood on the throne is why people want to marry a monarch. If Viserys had married Laena and she'd have had a son she would have felt the same, as would the Valeyrons. That is the socially accepted reward for having children (in this case sons) for a Ruler in western based cultures. That's not any weirder or more entitled then Rhaenyra considering the throne hers simply because her father named her heir and she's first born.

As for Aegon II thinking he deserved it because he had a cock, there's conflicting stories on that. It's just as likely that the story where he didn't want the throne and only took it after he was told he, his siblings and his children would be killed is true. Sure, after he got the throne he wasn't willing to give it up (few people will give up power like that once they have it) but that doesn't mean he felt he deserved it because he had a cock.

To be honest it's not necessary 100% for sure that all the Hightowers believed he deserved it because Aegon was a boy either. Did they use Aegon's gender to say he was the rightful Heir due to tradition? Yes, but that is also their only political leverage they can use to promote him over Rhaenyra. I mean, look at any modern political campaign--many candidates say things they clearly don't believe based on past actions, but have instead adopted it because it gives them more support to beat their opponent. Not saying this is how the Greens felt, just that given how the book is written there is no way to 100% be certain they felt Aegon II deserved the throne because he's man, or if they were just doing everything they could to advance their political power and that was their best avenue of attack. To be honest, if they were so power hungry, you could argue they might have usurped Rhaenyra even if all of Alicent's children had been girls.

I am inclined to believe Mushroom.

Alicent should have asked for Rhaenyra's boys to be swatted on the hands wooden spoon a good few times, not an eye. (Lucerys should not have had a dagger. Why would a child need a dagger?)

I don't think anyone thought Rhaenyra was still heir after Aegon was born. Viserys literally broke the laws of the entire realm for her.

War was inevitable, and there was nothing Rhaenyra could have done aside from marrying her infant brother.

Who started breaking laws? —The Greens

Who started murdering kin?—The Greens

Who started bloodshed?— The Greens

In a monarchy, which Westeros is and has been for THOUSANDS of years the king's words is the law. Not that of his predecessors, but of the present ruling monarch.

Viserys named his 8 year old daughter as his heir, he varied from custom yes, but never broke law. HE IS THE LAW.

I don't think anyone thought Rhaenyra was still heir after Aegon was born. Viserys literally broke the laws of the entire realm for her.

The Blacks? Literally many at court more than even the Greens supported Rhaenyra as heir. Even afterwards, during the war Rhaenyra had much more supporters than Aegon, even after her death.

It wasn't just for the insults either, Luke's nose was broken, Jace was hit in the head. And Joff was thrown into dragon droppings.

Afraid that the boy would raise the alarm, Prince Aemond shouted at him to be quiet, then shoved him backward into a pile of dragon droppings.

Aemond was TEN. Jace was SIX, Luke FIVE, Joff only THREE.

A 10 year old Pummeling (= boxing, repeatedly puching) and 6 year old is a perfectly good thing to do.

Lucerys should not have had a dagger. Why would a child need a dagger?

Не was teaching her "how best to touch a man to bring him pleasure," if Mushroom is to be believed. I am inclined to believe Mushroom.

Personally, I've always perceived Rhaenyra as an entitled brat. That was sort of how she was portrayed in the book.

I don't know how fighting for something that is yours, and have been for over TWENTY YEARS is seen as entitlement rather advocating and defending her own right?

Why should I explain the basic of things to strangers as if they're 5 and lack comprehension? Lol😭

#hotd critical #hotd #alicent hightower #rhaenyra targaryen #Aegon II #Reblog reply #I get liking one side more then the other #but that's no reason to make up stuff the hate the other side for #that they never did #the greens defiantly drew first blood #with Aemond being a complete idiot (by accident or vengeance)#but that doesn't mean that if Aegon and Rhaenyra had been married as the Greens wanted #they would have locked her away or killed her #yes they wanted the social/ political boost having family on the throne gave #but simply having Aegon marry Rhaenyra gives them that #he doesn't need to be King to given them that prestige #and even if Otto or Alicent wanted him to be king #Aegon might not go along with the plan given stories say he preferred to faff about doing shitty things #being king takes up precious faffing about time #plus given Rhaenyra is a woman the greens might just opt for seeing if she dies in childbirth #or sitting back and waiting until she inevitably makes an unpopular decision #and from there erode her reputation and blame all the bad shit on her #like idk the Hightowers seem to be a rather cautious house #who gain power by staying in the background for the most part and running integral parts of society like the church and Citadel #like they bent the knee to Aegon I and got him to accept the seven in some aspects #so idk why they'd start a huge war if they didn't need to #if they could just sit back and get their grandkid on the throne that seems more then in character for them #which again isn't saying they wouldn't possibly secretly kill Rhaenyra #but my point is that there isn't anything that says they were going to if she was married to Aegon II #which this person acts is canon fact

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problemswithbooks · 1 month

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Is it possible Xaden will be an effective ruler in the future? Personally, I don’t think he’ll ready for such a heavy burden if Violet’s involved. He seems much more invested in her than the betterment of the people (see: his whole “I’d let Aretia burn for you” moment). He only decides to stay at Bàsgiath in the end because he wants to keep Violet safe and she won’t be as scared of him. He doesn’t mention the others during this conversation and I have to wonder if he’d just be better off as a regular soldier. It’d be weird to have the Assembly (aka the only form of an oligarchy outside of the Empyrean) get kicked out in favor of a monarch.

With three more books to go it's hard to say. I hope that if RY wants to end the story with Xaden and Violet as King and Queen of Tyrrendor that she has them both grow as characters before the series ends.

But if we take how both Xaden and Violet are portrayed as of Iron Flame--no I wouldn't really trust them as Rulers, especially together. They fight constantly, and almost every other thought is about the other, even in situations that require considering other people. Xaden seems to have fully dropped what ever care he had for his people, pr even his friends for obsessing over Violet. Violet is upset with Xaden for something, whether it's deserved or not, half the time, and it makes her stupid.

If they manage to calm down around each other, and learn better communication, then maybe if Yarros ends the story with them as King and Queen I'll believe it won't be an absolute disaster.

As for the Assembly, I'd hope that it'd stick around in some form or other even if Xaden becomes King in Tyrrendor. I mean it's not as if monarchs don't have councils that help them rule, so it wouldn't be weird to keep the Assembly around as they are. They might all have a say in things but it's clear Xaden does out rank them because they're in his land, under his roof. Keeping that set up in the end, regardless of Xaden being King isn't unbelievable.

The one thing I could see, if the Assembly is kept, is the members changing. Either they get killed off of perhaps form a similar set up in Navarre after the war (sort of a way to try and make sure they don't try and cover shit up again in the future) so Tyrrendor has to pick new people for it's Assembly. This allows these politically powerful positions to be filled with characters the readers actually know, like Imogen, Bodhi, Rhiannon and so on, instead of the barely introduced characters that are currently part of the Assembly. The only one that stays could be Brennan, since he has a connection to Violet.

#xaden riorson #iron flame #fourth wing #violet sorrengail #thanks for the ask!#the empyrean #the end of this series is far off right now so predicting the end is impossible #but I do lean toward Xaden and Violet ruling Tyrrendor (if they live) because it was a sort of big deal in IF #plus fantasy stories love crowing a king or Queen at the end #and Yarros has been playing into tropes so much #it just feels like the simple way to end the story

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problemswithbooks · 1 month

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Do you think Cat was being genuine when she told Violet that Xaden is incapable of love? Maybe her gift let her see Xaden’s truest feelings? I think that was such an interesting part of the fight, and it seems to be overlooked by most of the fandom.

It's likely the author didn't mean it to be genuine, and only having it be Cat being an asshole. That or from Cat's PoV she does believe it, but that's because Xaden never loved her because she's a bitch.

The thing is, I always had an issue with how RY wrote Cat and Xaden's past relationship. I've come to realize that while a lot of men enjoy the trope of a virgin love interest, so they have no sexual competition, a lot of woman enjoy the idea of a man whose never loved anyone he was involved with before, so they never have romantic competition.

And, honestly, if that's what RY wants, fine, but I think she over did it quite a bit. It was really gross to me that Xaden said he was fine watching Violet kill Cat and stopped her only because it'd make Violet sad. I know Yarros has said Xaden's not the hero, but it makes Violet look stupid to not be concerned that he's so willing to watch her kill a woman who he spent nine months with and possibly knew as a child during the rebellion. He doesn't have to love her, but it's crazy that he doesn't even seem to like her at all. To me it's a huge red flag that he's so okay with his ex being killed. Sure, he loves Violet now, but if they broke up and he moved on would he be similarly alright with her being chocked to death?

As far as my own headcanon, I say she did see his lack of care through her ability. I don't think she said what she did to warn or out of concern for Violet. I still think she was trying to get under her skin. But her knowing that Xaden never even cared anything for her despite months in a relationship and possibly at least meeting years before as young teens makes her actions make a lot of sense.

You could argue that she should be able to read him currently and see his love for Violet but I counter that he has really good shields, where he didn't before. So, unlike in the past, when Xaden was still homing the technique, she can't tell he loves Violet. If that's the case, it feels way easier to get him back--just be sexy and competent and he might decide she's a better choice.

Or if you want to be a bit less charitable to Xaden, you could argue how he feels about Violet doesn't look like love to Cat's Gift. In many ways you could say Xaden is not in love with Violet--he's obsessed with her. He does not love her, he needs her. He has said he'd let the world burn to keep safe--pretty much damn everyone, including all the Marked Ones who love him, just for her. And that's what he does in a way at the end of IF by turning Venin. It's love, sure, but it's a pretty over the top version of it.

So, in a way you could see Cat as correct--Xaden can't love anyone, at least not in a healthy way.

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problemswithbooks · 1 month

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Maybe I missed something important, but I feel like there are some plot holes now that we know Xaden can read intentions. because how did he not seem to know what was coming at Cordyn? He seemed very surprised when they set the venin on Violet. And why did it take him 9 whole months to figure out the Viscount would never let him take the luminary to Aretia, even if he complied with the marriage contract? Like now I don’t know whether we are supposed to believe the Viscount is just unpredictable, or something cooler is happening and the Viscount somehow knows Xaden is inntinnsic

I find this hard to answer with concretely because there are 3 more books coming and more might be explained later. The thing is, the stuff with the Viscount do feel like plot holes but they could have a really easy explanation. The problem is that that explanation requires RY to actually care about world building and more specifically Poromiel culture--which so far she doesn't seem super interested in.

Because, here's the thing. It's stated that the Gifts gryphons usually give are mind based. If that's the case it'd make whole lot of sense that they culturally they are really good at detecting or reflecting mind based techniques like, say, Xaden's intention reading.

I could totally believe that the Viscount had such good shields that never wavered, that Xaden never could read him with his ability. The Viscount didn't even have to know Xaden had the ability either, since it'd be such second nature to always have those fool proof shields up just to protect himself from other Gifted people in his own home.

This might be an explanation RY uses later. I'm doubtful, given she could have better set this explanation up using Cat or even Xaden explaining Poromiel resistance to other mind work signets, but didn't, but I can't 100% say this won't be brought up later.

It could also be that the Viscount knows he's inntinnsic, but I don't know why that would matter much. If RY later has it that Poromiel is just as anti-Inntinnsic as Navarre I will consider it the stupidest world building choice, that goes against everything we've been told about them so far. If the majority of their powers are mind-based, a good portion of their people would naturally get an inntinnsic ability like Xaden.

So, unless she makes a terrible world building choice, I don't know why the Viscount knowing Xaden is inntinnsic would matter. If the story was from his PoV and, say the Viscount told Cat. I could see him being worried about her telling Violet, but that's about all. Now that Violet knows there's not much reason for the Viscount knowing or not knowing to be a big deal. He wouldn't tell Navarre since they're enemies and even if Xaden doesn't do everything he likes, having him killed would not benefit him at all. And frankly, he could have gotten Xaden killed by making his double crossing Navarre clear--so outing him as inntinnsic isn't even needed to get him killed if he decided Xaden was to much hassle.

#xaden riorson #catriona cordella #fourth wing #iron flame #ask #thanks for the ask!! :)#inntinnsic is so confusing #honestly it should have stayed what it seemed to be in the first book #that being constant mindreading #but i think RY didn't want to make Xaden to much like Edward Cullen #on top of it being way more invasive #so way harder for Violet to forgive

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problemswithbooks · 1 month

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I find it ironic that we get so little info on gryphons and the fliers but what little we do makes it feel like they are so much nicer then Dragons. Like cibbe saved a rider (I can't remember who) and Kira saved Sloane or violet from Solas. Meanwhile, andarna snapped at cat for even addressing her. Not to mention the fliers don't kill people who fail to bond a gryphon.

Ironically I feel like the fliers would hear all of the stuff the riders go through and how many people the Dragons kill and just be like 'wow so glad I'm not in your freaky death cult of a country'.

LITERALLY!!!

Like, the dragons can just fucking kill you during Presentation if they think your vibes are even mildly off. For some reason, they don’t like talking to humans they aren’t bonded with and it’s never explained why. They’re a bunch of prideful assholes who think humans and gryphons are beneath them (they don’t even acknowledge Navarre’s gods as legit lmao) and I think that’s fascinating considering the wyvern are almost a more powerful version of them.

But like what you said, the gryphons are just leagues better than the dragons. They don’t have super strong magic but they’ve managed to hold their own for the past four hundred years against them and the venin. In fact, the gryphons and fliers seem like more of a tightly bonded unit than the dragon riders. When one of them dies on the pass, they all echo back a three beat chirp like a mourning song and I thought that was one of the more intriguing bits of Iron Flame. Cat even mentions how they all share runes and mocks Violet’s squad for claiming to call themselves family when they don’t even share things lol. Even their version of the dragon without their rider line is way more intimate. “When a gryphon bonds, it does so for life. Guard your life as you would your gryphon's, for they are forever intertwined.” This makes me want to bond a gryphon more than a dragon. The fact this magical creature is willing to stick with you for the rest of your life??? PEAK shit. Bàsgiath could never!

I think the gryphons are way more intimate and in tune with human customs/societies than dragons are. Since they’re smaller, they can live in towns and barn houses if they like. My personal headcanon is that Syrena and Cat painted their gryphons’ nails for fun and thought it looked cute.

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problemswithbooks · 2 months

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Is Cat a Kind of Inntinnsic?

The answer, the one I'm sure the author would give, would be no. The story in no way treats Cat's Gift as an Inntinnsic ability. Violet and particularly Xaden don't act as if what she does is at all similar to what an Inntinnsic does.

But I'd argue it has to be in order for it to work.

Because everything is first person from Violet's PoV or a rare chapter from Xaden, I sort of doubt the author really sat down and thought of how certain characters powers would work. If she did, i think she'd have realized Cat's Gift would function similarly to Xaden's second signet.

Cat can manipulate emotions. We're told she can't force someone to feel something they don't, but instead amplify what they do feel. On the surface that doesn't seem anything like an Inntinnsic ability. Where things become more complicated is how she uses that power.

If Cat can't implant an emotion, then she has to know what emotions the person is feeling. Sure, she could just be throwing her ability at people and seeing what sticks, or it could work in broad strokes; emotions overlap, so maybe any negative emotion can be made increasingly worse, while a good one amplified into pure elation.

I'd argue though that her power doesn't seem that broad, instead being pretty focused. Violet was easy to read so it wouldn't even have been hard to read that she hated Cat, and Cat threw out insults during their fight to make sure Violet is more susceptible to her Gift.

But the Venin she goes after at the end of the book wasn't as easy a read. She doesn't know this Venin. She's bragging and boastful, but whose to say that's greed and not pride? Or even done as a way to taunt Violet and make her more afraid?

Yet Cat manipulates the Venin without much difficulty, seeming to know exactly what emotions she's feeling without any trouble.

There's also the issue where people are generally feeling more then one emotion at a time. Violet is always in love with Xaden, but she can also be annoyed with him. Emotions aren't something that are felt one at a time--so how does Cat pick which one to manipulate without knowing instinctively what they're feeling?

I think it's very likely that Cat can either sense what people are feeling, or even see it (I'm thinking sort of like auras) and from there use her power to exaggerate which ever one she wants. It just makes the most sense.

But if that is the case, similar to how Xaden can read people's impulses and intentions, Cat could read their emotions. Now, that's not exactly mind reading, but Xaden's power isn't strictly reading minds either, yet he count's as an inntinnsic. To me what seems to make someone Inntinnsic is that they have no outward tell or rule for using their powers--they can just do it.

Dain isn't an inntinnsic because he requires touch to activate his memory seeing. As long as he does not touch you, you are safe from his ability.

Meanwhile, what makes inntinnsics such a security risk, is that they can activate their signet at anytime without anyone's knowledge. Xaden seems to be using his second signet constantly to read everyone, and no one has ever picked up on it at all.

In a way Cat's Gift seems to be similar in that she can use it without a hard and fast rule. She can just do it. If it works by letting her sense people's emotions, she could be constantly reading people Xaden does, but instead for intent, it's for their emotional state.

Does that not make her power Inntinnsic? Or at least Inntinnsic adjacent?

#fourth wing #iron flame #the empyrean #xaden riorson #catriona cordella #Cat Cordella #idk i find her power interesting #and thinking about how it works and looks to her as she uses it #made me realize it would probably function similarly to Xaden's inntinnsic ability #which means that both of them would have known that neither of them liked each other #the entire time they were together #at least if Cat was a flier back then #the time line seems a little wonky on that front #it says most gryphon Gifts involve mind work #which kind of makes me wonder if maybe poromeil wouldn't kill inntinnsics #since that seems to be something that their people would get way more often #and unlike the Dragon Riders they're not fabricating an entire history #I sort of doubt Yarros would write that #but damn it's kind of a wasted opportunity #the drama when the two sides join together and the Fliers have to expain that #'yeah we have people who fit into the Inntinnsic category and we're fine with them'#but if she did that Xaden's second signet wouldn't be that special #and it wouldn't have been such a big deal when he told Violet about it #since she probably would have already been dealing with people like that already #but that does beg the question what the fuck else mind work is?

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problemswithbooks · 2 months

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More Dain Stuff

So I'm still thinking about Dain and more so, who he might end the story with.

Now, I'm 98.9% sure Violet will stick with Xaden. Not saying it couldn't be interesting if, after the whole Venin thing and their already rocky relationship they broke up, but at the same time that's not how romance novels are written. The story might have dragons, but it is primarily a romance book. Xaden has always been the main focus of Violet and they got together in the first book--just like other fantasy/romance books; think Edward/Bella or Alina/Mal. Plus, most of her audience really like them together; not having them as end game would be alienating her readers.

So Dain's not ending up with Violet. To be honest he could end the story single if he survives, but I'd be a little surprised. Many authors even outside the romance genre have a habit of pairing up their characters at the end. It would be nice if the series didn't go that route, especially if it didn't have a time-skipped epilogue, but I'm expecting at least the main side characters to get paired up to some extent since it is a romance book.

That leaves the question of who he could be paired up with. It's hard to say at this point because he hasn't had many interactions with anyone besides Violet. The few times other characters mention him, most don't really like him. They're are Violet's friends or Marked, so they already have a poor opinion of him or hate him for Liam's death.

I'm not saying that Yarros couldn't have those characters change their opinion of Dain in later books (I really hope they do) and then pair him off with one of them. The issue is that I think most of Violet's close group have been given hints already to who they'll end up with. Sawyer is crushing on Jesinia, Imogen on Garrick. Rhiannon is with Tara, who will hopefully get better established as a character in later books. Though brief Sloane and Cam have some flirtation and in a lot of ways it would make a lot of sense to have them end up together, particularity if Cam becomes King. It would fully show the Marked ones are apart of the kingdom again and fully trusted.

Now, Ridoc is a possibility, but only if Dain is established as bi (which isn't impossible). The biggest hurdle there is that Ridoc is the exact opposite of Dain in a lot of ways. He's the goofball, while Dain is portrayed as a strict. Ridoc doesn't like him. It's really doubtful they'd get along. That could change as the series goes on; Ridoc could show a more serious side, while Dain could lighten up. Violet said he used to smile and laugh a lot, be less of a rule follower. Maybe Ridoc could bring that back out. I think it could be pretty cute and honesty it'd be cool if Yarros put an end to a love triangle by pairing up the spare with another guy.

One possibility though that I really find interesting and I could see is Cat.

First of all she also needs paired up as that failed third wheel of a love triangle with Xaden. There is a man in her Gryphon Flier group that likes her, so that might be who she gets put with in the end, but if that does happen I hope he gets a bit more screen time given how important Cat has been at least during Iron Flame.

Second, their powers complement each other. Dain can see memories (pretty much read minds to an extent) while Cat can manipulate emotions as long as they're present. I could easily see these two using teamwork to get stuff done. Cat could get someone upset enough that they lower their shields so Dain can read them, or Dain could read someones memories and give Cat the best ammunition to get them into the state of mind she needs to manipulate their emotions. Physical fights wouldn't change much but in intelligence work they could be really good as a team.

Third, I want a Flier/Rider romance and Cat's the most prominent Gyphon Flier we have as of Iron Flame. She's third in line for the throne which is interesting and could mean she ends up as Queen. Giving her a dragon Rider partner could be a good way of showing that even once the Venin are gone Navarre and Poromeil are still allies. Also would be interesting to see how a relationship like that was seen by the dragons.

Fourth, it'd be a bit funny. Cat is Xaden's ex, while Dain was Violet's first crush and childhood friend. I doubt Xaden would care much, since he never cared about Cat, but I think Violet would have many conflicting feelings about it which would be fun to see her stress over. By the end of Iron Flame she seems to have grown to respect Cat and Cat respects her in return, but I it wasn't that long ago she hated her. Meanwhile, although she was furious at Dain, he was her best friend for fifteen years.

It'd just be funny to see Violet struggling with that sort of roller coaster of emotions and perhaps catching herself thinking similar things Dain said to her about Xaden. I mean I could see her first thought being Cat is getting close to Dain to mess with her, since she can't get to Xaden anymore. Having her catch herself and realize she's making snap judgments could lead to some interesting conversations with both Dain and Cat or even Xaden talking to her more about his past with Cat. Just cool character interactions all around!

Fifth, character development. Dain is seen as Mr. By the Book, and although there probably isn't some rule against Flier/Rider relationships (because they've never worked together before) it could still be seen as wrong. They might be working together but they were enemies for hundreds of years. Dain picking Cat despite it being seen as against the spirit of the Codex continues his growth as getting over his issue of putting rules before people he cares about.

Meanwhile Cat, although tackling her anti-Dragon Rider hate and working with Violet has another flaw the one that was probably the biggest reason her and Xaden broke up. She wanted a crown. Now, I actually don't think this is a terrible thing for her to want given what we know of her and her situation. Poromeil has been essentially left to die by Navarre for hundreds of years. Frankly it makes sense Cat would want political power so she could use it to form an alliance with a Kingdom that might be strong enough to save her home.

Still the story makes it appear to be a flaw--that she wanted a crown over love. So, in that sense picking Dain, someone who isn't a prince or king, and has very little sway with anyone with power (Xaden hates him, and he deserted the army so he doesn't have any allies on that front either--dude is not getting a good job no mater whose in charge) shows she'll pick over over a crown. Even if afterwards she still gets the throne of Poromeil for whatever reason, it'd still prove she picked Dain over power.

So, that's my essay on possible end ships for Dain. I sort of still think he'll die--I'm always prepared for a character I like to die. But if he does live and get paired up I'd say it'd be Cat, with Ridoc as a runner up.

#fourth wing #iron flame #iron flame spoilers #Dain Aetos #Catriona Cordella #I actually forgot Ridoc had a hook up with a guy #until I started writing this post #and i think it would be cute actually #goofball with serious partner who has to keep them inline sometimes is adorable #and it would be cool for Yarros to end a love triangle with the dumbed guy getting together with a man for once #but I don't think it's as likely as Cat #Yarros doesn't seem super good writing lgbt+ couples since both queer couples she has are flings/ with partners who are not fully introduce #so id be surprised if we got two decently fleshed out characters in a queer relationship in the end #I mean I'm just hoping Rhi's girlfriend gets more fleshed out by the end #and from a writing perspective Cat/Dain has more to offer in way of compelling story-lines #mostly because they're both connected to Violet and Xaden in interesting ways then Ridoc is #And I've seen people think Cat will be with Cam (cuz he's the prince) but I think Sloane is a better choice there #Even if Tyrrendor becomes independent it'd still be nice to have Cam/Sloane to show the Marked Ones are fully excepted and safe in Nararre #Also I think it makes more sense since Cat being third in line is brought up alot #so I sort of expect she'll be queen of Poromeil by the end #which make Cam being a prince unneeded #unless the book ends with the two kingdom's uniting #which it could i guess #but sort of doubt #frankly id still like violet/Xaden/Dain as end game--u could even shove Cat in there

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problemswithbooks · 2 months

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Dain Aetos

So I read Fourth Wing and it's sequel last month and there's a few things I disliked about it, but one thing that really annoyed me was the writing around Dain and coming to find out that apparently the entire fandom hates him.

Now, the writing around Dain annoys me because it's very cliche. As soon as we're introduced to Xaden and Dain it's clear who Violet will choose. Xaden is the sexiest man she's ever seen and he's mysterious, while Dain is a regular amount of attractive. I don't know why every author thinks love triangles are needed, even when they won't make both characters an equally good choice is beyond me.

Another issue with Dain is that because he's been Violet's friend since they were kids, while also being hot and her crush for years, is that the author has to make him an asshole, because otherwise why would she ever pick Xaden (besides being the most sexy man she's ever seen)? I mean she's pretty convinced most of the first book he wants to kill her (even though he never even tries and constantly passes up opportunities to do so). He's the son of the man whose rebellion killed her older brother. If Dain was anything like the friend he supposedly is/was to her, she'd pick him no problem.

So the author, in order to get Violet and Xaden together has to make Dain not an option. For some reason authors always do this by making the character a jerk, or even downright evil. It can't because Dain doesn't feel the same way, or that he's ace or gay. It has to be because he's a dick.

But a big issue I have with Dain and how he's written as an asshole is that a lot of the stuff he does is very similar to what Xaden does, are simply understandable mistakes, or just flat out the right thing to do. Which is kind of why I'm surprised that the fandom hates him so much.

This isn't me saying he's perfect or anything. He does, whether he means to or not, demean Violet by continuing to try and get her out of the Riders, even when she's pretty clear she does not want that. He's over protective and doesn't listen to her sometimes when she tells him to back off about it, or trust her growing abilities.

But this is stuff Xaden does to. He makes Liam her bodyguard even though she flat out yells at him and tells him she hates it. He has a saddle made for her and despite her protests, he, with help from Tarin make her use it. He magics her room so only she and him can get inside without telling her. Xaden steps all over her boundaries just like Dain does. The only difference is that he acknowledges that she can fight good (but not well enough to not have Liam watch her and follow her everywhere).

Another strike against Dain is that he follows the rules to much. He's portrayed as a guy with a stick up his ass that won't lift a finger to save Violet if it's against the rules. One issue with that is that in one circumstance he's just objectively right.

Violet says she losses respect for him after he says him kissing her was wrong because he's above her in the chain of command. The thing is, that's actually the right thing to do. Even within the story's world, fucking someone above you in rank is seen as a bad move, one that could make you more of a target, and cause discord among your squad who think you're getting better treatment. In RL, even if it's not against the rules, being in a relationship with such a power imbalance is seen as a red flag. The fact Dain stepped back and realized it was a bad idea, especially for Violet, who would get the brunt of, if not all of the negatives from being together is not something that should be bad.

Also, the story does sort of contradict itself a little with this character trait. Violet is furious when Dain gets mad at Xaden and stops their match, saying that as their squad leader Xaden has the right to do whatever he wants with her, including kill her and Dain should have stayed out of it. She also doesn't want him to go behind her mother's back and get her into the Scribes. Yet later is upset that he admits he wouldn't have saved her during Threshing. So, which is is it? Should Dain follow the rules and let Violet be killed/hurt or break the rules and help her? Sometimes Dain is such a rule follower he'd watch her die, while other times he'll break the rules to save her--it's presented as bad either way.

Then there's him not believing Violet about Amber trying to kill her and wanting to read her mind. Now, I don't think it was right for him to demand it or try and do it without her permission, but at the same time I don't think he's being an asshole either. He knows Amber, and probably was fond of her since they did have a sexual relationship at some point. She is being accused of something that will get her killed on the spot. He's probably pretty panicked at the moment, thinking an innocent person--a friend of his might be about to be burned alive. Dain has a way to get concrete proof Amber did or did not commit the crime she's being accused of.

Does it probably sting that Dain doesn't believe her--yeah, of course, but at the same time it's not as if he's denying Violet was attacked at all. He just doesn't think who she saw was Amber, and given she was just asleep, it was dark and Amber didn't stay for more then a few seconds, it's not that weird or unreasonable to think Violet might be mistaken. And maybe it's just me, but I think having concrete proof before you condemn someone to die is a good trait to have.

Then comes the biggest thing Dain does that I'm sure is why he's so hated by the fandom--he reads Violet's memory without permission, tells his dad about it and ends up getting Liam killed (along with a couple of other non important people).

When it comes to taking her memory without permission that is of course bad and she has every right to be furious about it--or even hate and never want to be friends with him again. The issue I have is that at the end of the 2nd book it turns out Xaden has a very similar power, one he didn't want to tell her about, even after he trusted her, because he didn't want her to stop loving him (aka break up with him). Yes, he says he didn't use it on her to get her to fall in love with him, but there's no way for her to know that, especially when the main problems with their relationship in that book is his reluctance to tell her things. Heck, Dain says he himself didn't do it on purpose the first time either and only did it again because he was worried about Xaden planing to hurt her/betray their country.

Still, by the end of the book, after Xaden does something even worse (becoming Venin) she's still in bed with him. Meanwhile Dain gets screamed at and shut out for most of the book, and even after they work together she tells him she still needs more time to forgive him, if she ever can. It's just such a blatant double standard that's only there because the point of the series is to have Violet and Xaden together. So Xaden is forgiven or at least given leniency enough that even when she's mad at him she's down to have sex, but Dain is more realistically hard to forgive and it takes more time to even get back to working together.

Then there's Liam's death. This seems to be the thing that Violet is the most hurt by and has the hardest time forgiving Dain for. Now, again, I understand why she's upset. It was traumatic to watch him die, and in someway Dain is a little responsible for that. But I do find it weird that the story acts as if Dain was somehow malicious or totally unreasonable with what he did (past the memory taking).

Dain did not know the country was evil. He did not know his dad was apart of an evil government. He saw Xaden, who he only knows as a traitor's kid, doing something suspicious in Violet's memory. He reasonably tells someone he trusts higher in the chain of command that Xaden might be up to something involving a specific place. It's not unreasonable for him to tell his father about a possible threat to their country. Again he doesn't know they're the bad guys, and he didn't even know his father was going to use the war games to try and kill Xaden (most likely he thought he'd just investigate it and then publicly punish Xaden like Amber was).

Of course, Violet doesn't know that Dain wasn't in on it, but I do find it a bit odd and a poor writing choice that she's so quick to think the worst of him. We are told these two are best friends multiple times, but I never believed it because she was so quick to always think the worst of him and they rarely had any scenes together where they weren't fighting. Violet does seem to be a hot head but the fact she is so quick to believe that her friend since childhood tried to kill her and an entire squad doesn't make it fee like they were ever that close. She just never has even a moment of denial where she tries to find some other explanation or way that Dain didn't sell them out to die.

And that was something that I found a huge problem in the first half of the second book. She's so sure she can't trust Dain and she never once even seems all that broken up about losing her supposed best friend. When Dain looks disgusted and finds a way to turn down his superior officer's request for him to look into her mind, she doesn't question whether he was in on the plot to kill Xaden's squad.

Eventually when he does comply with a direct order to read her mind, after he's been told she's a traitor, she expects him to side with his father and country rather then help her. Yet, when Dain risks his life to save her and joins Xaden's revolution she barely thinks much about it, and everyone still treats him like he's a bad person that still needs to prove himself.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't understand why both the story and fandom act as if Dain is the worst person, when he really hasn't done that much wrong, and what he has done wrong are things mirrored by Xaden who is loved. To me the writing alone makes it hard to hate him because it's so easy to see that he's only portrayed as a jerk so the main couple can be a thing. On top of that it doesn't even really succeed, and is instead only successful because the 1st person POV is so negative toward him. Subjectively, if compared to Xaden he's pretty much the same when it comes to faults--it's just that he's not the man who gets the girl in the end so the author made Violet hate him (because god forbid romance characters have more then one person they care about of the opposite gender).

Frankly, I'm just happy that the author didn't make him a full blown villain. Hopefully that doesn't change in later books. Same thing goes for killing him off, even if heroically. It'd just be nice if a love triangle ended with everyone coming to a understanding instead of one having to be written off as pure evil or dead (or in twilight's case falling in love with a baby; the weirdest, grossest way to resolve a love triangle).

#fourth wing #iron wing #dain aetos #Dain #violet sorrengail #xaden riorson #idk i feel like i'm the only person who didn't hate Dain #I mean he can be a jerk #but Xaden did a lot of similar stuff #and it bothered me how one was treated so differently to the other #especially when in story it doesn't make sense #Violet is supposed to be really close to Dain #while she thinks Xaden might kill her during the first book #yet she's far more forgiving of Xaden for ignoring her wishes then Dain #also i have to admit the last chapter of the iron flame made me furious #idk how Yarros is gon'na keep Violet and Xaden together after what he did #like he literately did the most evil thing you can do in that universe #and he also lied to her about reading and manipulating emotions #so how was she in bed with him after that?!#Why is that after jumping to the conclusion Dain tried to kill her and everyone in Xaden's squad she threatened him and hated him for month #but Xaden lies about also breaking her privacy and also uses evil magic the same day #and she's like 'sure i'll sleep in your bed (and probably fuck you)'#and i'm not against enemy to lovers or anything #I read Shadow and Bone and wasn't happy when the main character ended up with her bff either #but unlike Shadow and Bone Dain isn't nearly as much of an asshole as that guy (thank god they fixed him in the show)#Also after that one line of Dain's about sort of falling for Xaden #I think the only ending I could accept is if they became a threesome #if they're both jerks in the same way #why not just have all of them together then #one of these days we'll get a love triangle that ends in ploy

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problemswithbooks · 4 months

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So, I guess afo is dead, and all I can say is, well I feel better about Stain's death now. Not because the guy who killed him died, but because unless something more happens later afo was really unnecessary for this arc--just like stain was.

I understand hori wanting to give the big bad a backstory and all might and bakugou a good fight, but besides that afo was just time sink. I think there were ways to get similar results without afo being around that would have worked better.

It's just weird that so close to the end of the story it re-hyped afo as the big bad that needed stopped, then to have him accomplish nothing. Then turn around and be like 'well, back to shigaraki now'.

It really feels like we should have gotten the afo defeat/death sooner and then focus could be put back on shigaraki and the liv.

This final arc has felt really disjointed so far, and I have a sinking suspicion that by the end it'll feel like half of what happened and what characters were used was uneeded.

#bnha 410 #mha #bnha #bnha spoilers #idk well see how it ends #but i doubt it will be very satisfying #its weird that after so much build up and chapters wasted on him #afos death didn't feel that monumental #it doesn’t even end the chapter oflr get reactions from characters #its just quickly pivots to shig and deku #almost as if to say 'oh yeah this guys the main villain btw'#like i think it deserved a little breathing room #we should get a huge reaction from all might #hes been haunted and destroyed by afo since he was a teenager #idk its just weird ��

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problemswithbooks · 5 months

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Okay, so I looked this up and you're right. In that manga Arlong doesn't try to fight at all.

In the anime the scene is extended, and they do have Arlong try and fight back, but even there, it's Jinbe who attacks first. It's a really small scuffle and Arlong doesn't manage to do much, but at the same time, given we know what he looks like when he's serious, I don't think, even in the anime, he was legitimately trying to hurt Jinbe, where as I do think Jinbe, having lost his temper was trying to hurt Arlong.

It's such a small moment (and it's from Jinbe's POV), so it's more my own interpretation on what we have for Arlong's character, but I don't think he actually thought Jinbe would kill him, or even hurt him. Their relationship had always been one where they had fights, but before this moment they'd never gotten truly physical--at most Jinbe would give him a small smack on the head for saying something stupid. So, I think that, despite Arlong's declaration of Jinbe needing to kill him, I doubt he thought the situation would go farther then back and forth screaming.

In the anime translation I watched Arlong called Jinbe a monster here. I'm not sure which is more accurate to the Japanese but if the monster translation is more correct I think it backs up the fact Arlong didn't expect Jinbe to hurt him and found his actions reprehensible, and probably made the sting of betrayal he felt from Jinbe joining the very same people who killed Fisher Tiger all the worse. It's also not that farfetched to think that Jinbe attacking Arlong here is what pushed some people to join Arlong rather then stay with Jinbe, despite none of them seeming unhappy on his crew beforehand (especially Hatchan who didn't hate humans the same way Arlong did and who appears torn).

So we know Jinbei beat up Arlong but I’m not convinced it’s because he’s so unfathomably stronger.

I dont think Arlong fought back. He doesn’t raise a hand to other fishmen. Jinbei is his sworn brother and once he considers you his brother (or sister), that’s for life.

(I need to reread the Fishman Island flashbacks to confirm this but I need to spit this out into the ether.)

#one piece #Arlong #Jinbe #seriously why is Jinbe's name spelt so many different ways?#Jinbei #Jimbei #are they all fine?#is there a right way to spell it?#i think it's really cute actually that Arlong is letting one of his crew help him walk #in the Arlong Park arc he also lets his crew drag him away when he's furious which is also cute #He just lets his friends manhandle him #which makes sense since most of these guys are people he grew up with #like they've all known each other since they were kids #so he has no issue looking weak in front of them or trusting their judgement on when he's to angry #cuz they've all helped raise each other #and it's sad cuz he defiantly felt the same about Jinbe #I mean he's happy to see him after Jinbe left and joined the army #and they only start fighting when Jinbe calls him trash #this was probably way to much stuff to add to OP's post and i'm sorry #i'm a rambler

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problemswithbooks · 5 months

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some fun comic practice

did you know that the chain catshark is also known as the chain dogfish. like pick an animal.

they are also biofluorescent, which means they glow BRIGHT GREEN under a blacklight.

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problemswithbooks · 6 months

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There's a few minor characters in a later One Piece arc that disprove your theory re: inheritance of fish-like traits, but your world-building speculation is really interesting!

Actually one of Big Mom’s young sons looks fully Fishmen. De-Chat.

Got these two asks so I looked into it a bit more.

Something I find really interesting is that Big Mom's kids, De-chat and his mermaid sisters look nearly the same as full-blooded fishmen and merfolk. Big Mom is interesting because she doesn't really look human due to her size but is apparently just a little to short to count as a giant. It might be possible that she has giant ancestors somewhere in her past--but also who knows, she could also have fishmen or merfolk ancestors as well.

Again, this is just me trying to make sense of One Piece biology that was never supposed to make any sense. Oda only designs characters based on how they look and fit into the story. He's not going to limit his artistic talent to reality or make world building rules that might also put restrictions on what he can draw.

But for me, how I'd make sense of Big Mom's kids looking so much like their seafolk fathers is to say that somewhere in her background she has a fish-person or merfolk parent. Given how Oda says their dna works, with it remembering any secondary species (like whale shark, or goldfish) it makes sense that human hybrids generally get more human traits because one parent lacks a secondary species to pull from. Meanwhile, both fish-people and merfolk are human, so the genes have more ways of combining in a way that emphasis human traits.

But if someone has seafolk ancestors their dna would still carry that secondary species, even if they themselves do not have any fish traits. If they then had children with a fish-man or mermaid that child could have a higher chance of inheriting fish traits. This could explain why Big Mom has such pure looking seafolk children.

Meanwhile other hybrids we see like Sapi look nearly entirely human except for a fin on his head. Dellinger is interesting because he looks almost fully human as well, but most of it seems to be because he can hide those traits. He can choose whether or not to have human teeth, or hide his fin.

I'm no expert on dna or genealogy so my head-cannon is probably nonsense, but to me seafolk kind of feel like eeve in a way, where they're dna is kind of unstable. Whenever they have kids what they look like is a complete crap-shoot, where anything is possible. On top of that it doesn't seem like their abilities or size is always determined by their fish traits. Some of them look nearly human, except with non-human skin tones, while others look extremely inhuman--like Zeo or Hammond.

Which again is very purposeful on Oda's part. He's drawing cool characters. The reasons why they look the way they do doesn't matter to him at all. I just try and come up with reasons because I find it fun.

#ask #thanks for the ask!! :)#one piece #fishmen #merfolk #i would also like to know how these people know what their fish type is because they rarely look anything like them #how does Jinbe know he's a whale shark fish-man?#he has 0 whale shark traits #how does arlong know he's sawshark and not a sawfish?#cuz it'd make way more sense if he was a sawfish given he has no barbels #and also sawfish are way bigger then sawsharks so wouldn't he prefer to have that as his secondary fish species?#also how come Kurobi is just a ray? or Dosun a hammerhead shark?#that's not a singular species #I mean I assume Dosun is a great hammerhead because that's the one people know #and Kurobi is a manta ray of some kind for similar reasons #also Hatchan is just an octopus #but the giant octopus is the one people know the most so maybe he's that #did these guys just decide they didn't need to pick something more pacific?

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