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asian-fiction · 6 months

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Cultural sensitivity will help you understand dramas better

People get sensitive over the idea that one should try cultural sensitivity because often it means self-reflection. Humans processing difference, is definitely still a problem today. But here we go. Honestly, this type of behavior is why I stopped doing cultural notes so often. It's always rounds of people jumping in to defend the outsider and telling me to be nice to their cultural insensitivity and let them track mud into my house, and then telling me that me calling them out for tracking mud into my house is a terrible idea and I shouldn't do that. Friends don't let friends drive drunk. Friends also shouldn't let friends be culturally insensitive and beat up the person trying to extend learning either.

First of all, I've been trained in Cultural Anthropology--I have a degree in it. I also taught classes for a big media company in cultural media sensitivity. And 101 class in Anthropology says the first thing you need to do is pause judgement--which is what I said. Pause judgement.

I mean, if Cultural Anthropology didn't teach about how to get over yourself and culture shock, more Anthropologists would be tossed out of the communities they've been studying. Which is to say I know what I'm doing when I'm pushing against things like imperialism and ethnocentricism. I had the same challenges presented to me. I have no need to be nice about it, but I will be kind. And yes, most of the time this it is white women socialization to ask people to be nice (which isn't wrong, but different, but can be problematic in some contexts--which my white women friends also like to make fun of because they know it so well and are so self-aware, but they also learned how to use it for good, not evil), but understand the context and if it really is helpful to let people walk around with ideas that might harm them later down the road. Which is the greater harmony? That's the difference between kindness and niceness. It is more kind to try to challenge people to self-reflect on their prejudices, than let them walk around with them for the rest of their lives. I did the recently for my cousin's son, too. He got judgy about what other cultures eat, and I worked hard to walk him through it with another family member, and then he came to understand the how and why.

I get your discomfort is why you're asking an entire population to change--I mean Anthropology used to do this sort of thing too. This was their first reaction was to judge, but Anthropology, as a field grew up and realized that demanding that a country change without understanding why things are that way in the first place can do a TON of damage to the communities. This is pretty much the whole history of imperialism. And honestly, most people of color hate imperialism in the first place. (Someone is going to chime in, but, but don't you mean only Asians, no, I mean the majority of the world has been imperialized by Europe and we've been beat up over it. Look up your nearest politics. Name a country outside of Europe, and I'll honestly give you a run down--yes, even Thailand *cough British anyone? Granted a month, but British Museum says a lot….)

The same discomfort that straight people have over queer people demands that queer people act more like straight people. The same discomfort white people have around Black people demands that Black people act more like white people and not talk in their own, very understandable Black English dialects (why else subtitle PoC english speakers?). The same discomfort is the type where people demand that they don't have to see or engage with people who are disabled. It's the same human behavior. And usually, people from the out groups chime in and say, how could that be wrong? Of course they have to bend to us. Of course the wheelchair user has to cope with a 2 foot drop from the curb. Of course we should never have to change our rules on hiring practices for Black people. But the thing is when a group is oppressed for so long, at which point are you punching down? This is what I'm asking. And it's likely you have a difference that's also been picked on and people have also asked you to change it when you couldn't. There is a high likelihood this is a case of this in the majority of the posters. Think about it, and self-reflect for a while-- would you want to bend to such demands when the person hasn't even come to try to understand who you are? And this is how I was taught to stop and think about it in my classes on Anthropology. You, outsider, understand nothing. You are approaching a different time, a different people, but you need to make them human to you first before you can judge them and say they are wrong. It would be like a stranger coming up to you and punching you for wearing a cultural costume. Or that Atlanta shooter for shooting massage parlor people (who to be clear weren't sex workers, though there is nothing wrong with that) shooting Asians because he was angry over covid.

Also, when you're absolutely used to everyone bending to you and your ways, it can be a huge shock to be asked to bend to a totally different way.

To me, asking a country to change, is like trying to grow cacao beans in a desert and then demanding the people live off of that. It simply doesn't work because cacao is tropical. The desert is not. You don't know the conditions that they work under. There have been "rescue" groups that go to Africa (the continent, yes) where they try to force the locals to grow crops that simply don't work, and then the people come there all mighty and ignorant, and then tada~~ a storm blows in or the river floods just like they thought, and those "rescue" organizations have their tails between their legs and then have to start from scratch, learn from the people about what is and isn't working and why and how the system can work better.

So processing your culture shock--100% it takes practice. But it's never, ever OK, to use your discomfort to demand a country should change without understanding how and why the system works like that and how and why your own contexts might also be flawed.

100% I've gone through culture shock and stared at things where I go, this makes absolutely no sense to me. 100%… but what I've been taught through my anthropology classes, is to travel through my discomfort, reflect on if my systems at home are really that much better, and if it's really that dire of a change needed. Am I going to literally die if Japanese chocolate doesn't taste like Belgium chocolate like I'm used to (c'mon, US chocolate is worse than Japanese… most of the time--opinion here)? Or can I reflect on that difference and go, ah, cool, that's why. I may not agree, but I understand. I won't always agree with the difference, but in understanding why, my judgements become less divisive, more cool, and I understand that this system is working (or not quite working) for them.

I really do get that self-reflection makes people feel icky, but if you want to engage with people unlike you, you have to travel through this sort of discomfort. You get better at it as you experience more of it, like anything in life.

Also, this is probably why more Koreans wish I would quit making these comments, because there is always that one person that can't stand culture shock, and think their discomfort is more important than learning.

When I didn't bend to the people of the country, they treated me colder, and I think I would have missed out on a lot of good experiences if I had doubled down on my discomfort. What I want is a bit of that magic that I experienced for you. This is why I write these comments. It's not to get judged as a Korean person trying to extend an olive branch on everything you dislike about Korea. I am not everyone Korean. I am not a symbol. Let people travel through their discomfort--if it makes you feel uncomfortable seeing that they are being asked to travel through it, maybe you also could work on that. Because I promise you something better is on the other side.

Ah, I'd have missed out on the Geta obaasan if I was that uptight. And I swear thinking back onto that moment, makes me still tear up because I could really appreciate her humanity because I learned to let go. I'd trade the entire trip to Japan for that one moment, it was that special.

#Culture shock #cultural anthropology #ethnocentricism #privilege #imperialism #travel through your differences #travel through your discomfort #don't defend imperialists

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asian-fiction · 6 months

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Asian media is not made for you.

Chinese media is made for Chinese people. Mostly Han, to be fair, but yes, for Chinese and to Chinese standards. Accept this damned fact already. The endings are going to follow Chinese folktales. They aren't going to post that the clothes are Ming Dynasty for you. They aren't going to coddle you and tell you this is a xianxia. They aren't going to explain what celadon pottery is for you. And no, they aren't going to change their ending type soon. You can either lose your mind, or understand why it's done that way, be so uptight that you have an anxiety attack. Japanese media isn't made for you. They won't explain their Taiga dramas and tell you it's set in Sengoku and what that all means, and no, most of the romances won't resolve the majority of the time. And those plots about cheating won't resonate with you, and that's OK. But maybe, maybe, if you pause, you can ask why there are so many cheating dramas. Maybe you'll learn something new. Maybe it would be exciting and interesting if you did find out, for example, that many Japanese people marry young, but the pressures against divorce are really high and thus cheating is higher and most people don't care while the children are being raised, so such dramas are popular. And I know you'll have moral judgements about that, but sometimes giving up and only divorcing when you're 40 after empty nest syndrome works better for some people because they want to raise children over having stern judgements against them. And Korean media isn't made for you either. They aren't going to stop using nunchi in their dramas, Jeong, and using Korean puns you don't catch or understand. They won't post dates for you. They won't stop doing toilet humor once in a while. And the plots that are really, really Korean, like jokes about dogs, they will not stop. Relax. It's fine. Enjoy the ride. You can look most of the information you need on wikipedia, yo. If you need something, why not ask someone willing to be asked when it is? I swear, swear, you'll enjoy it more when you relax and understand the why. And when in doubt, you can always ask why. (but asking first if it's OK to ask the questions and exchange.) For example, I asked a Chinese person (yes, I remember their name, but protect your sources), why Chinese folktales always ended up sad. (I asked to make sure I wasn't wrong about them ending all sad first, BTW). And they answered me because of the change of rule systems was so frequent, and China often felt being taken over.

Before I didn't get it, and after, I admit I still had a bit of culture shock, but once I'd worked through it, processed it and asked myself why I was fixated on happy endings and what happy endings mean, I really understood.

#cultural sensitivity #Asian dramas aren't made for foreigners

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asian-fiction · 6 months

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Cultural Notes for Matchmakers Episode 1

This was well timed in terms of humor. And the camera angles were well-thought through. It was worth spending my time watching this.

I'm here to get hated yet again for typing up notes on the drama mostly from fetishist Koreaboos who don't want Koreans like me to be humanized and Korean supernationalists who hate my comments for showing the downsides of Korea in an honest fashion along side the upsides.

BTW, I do have historical sources in English and Korean for these assertions. Not that the Korean super nationalists care. And you could just skip it over instead of being mad that I'm sharing.

Cultural Notes:

I'm really hoping from the cues this is mid-Joseon, or early Joseon. ~~ We've mostly gotten late Joseon or really late Joseon in dramas lately. (What historians call after the Imjin War, since Joseon is generally split into two parts.) You can tell by the jeogori (hanbok Jacket, I'm specifically referring to the female jeogori) or the sleeves. The rules on Joseon widows in the mid-Joseon and before the Imjin war were more loose than in later Joseon. (If you need references about this from Korean scholars, I can give them.) After mid-Joseon, the rules on widows got really, really harsh.

^^;; I have to say as someone who makes hanbok for myself and occasionally for friends, etc, both modernized and traditional, I'm an absolute nightmare nerd about hanbok. If you want an essay on Three Kingdom Hanbok differences between the various Kingdoms, say between dramas and what historical museums say, I have that memorized. I also have memorized the differences between hanbok and hanfu, and of course kimono, and yes from different eras. Total geek on the subject. Also, I can super geek on kimchi too…

Rowoon's intonation, and inflection on Joseon speak is really good. ^^ I'm saying aesthetically, and technically it's beautiful. This is one of the times if you don't know Korean and the cadence you should wish you did. Some actors really struggle with the words so much that their emotional inflections flatten and their sense of timing goes off, but he's really smooth about it.

Some people may know that hangeul was invented in early Joseon by King Sejong the great, 세종대왕, but despite this, and hangeul being easy to read (which it is, you really can learn it fast). It didn't become more commonly used by the upper class since most of the classics were preserved in mostly hanja (Chinese characters… which isn't exactly the same as hanzi, but that's another whole lecture and a half). So the majority of the signs and texts were still in Chinese characters in mid-Joseon. And South Korea still uses hanja on occasion to clarify words in texts. The first text to extensively use hangeul is said to be Hong Gil Dong, written by Heo Gyun, who lived 1569 – 12 October 1618. In order to make it understandable to the lower classes. Hangeul became more widespread after the Korean War, with the amount of characters dying down from the 1950's onwards, but it's still taught in schools in South Korea. North Korea got rid of hanja, officially (from reports and from my University Korean History teacher doing a project there.)

The countryside matchmaker is using dialect (saturi). ^^;; It's not very stable though in terms of acting, but I'm pickier than most Koreans.

It is absolutely true that they thought too many women in the palace caused a drought, so occasionally, they would release women from palace service in order to balance it.

The last note is to listen for the word "Nunchi" It's literally eye measure, but it's a kind of perception/intuition which is a core part of Korean socialization. You notice things about the environment, parts of people and the world, in order to try to create better harmony between people.

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asian-fiction · 6 months

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Romance on the Farm 田耕纪

Runtime: 45 Minutes Episodes: 24 Dubbed?: All own voices, but the sound equipment is really good for some reason. Because I've caught a few redubbed lines here and there mostly from Joseph Zeng. The sound is really high quality and well controlled for live recording.

This drama (so far as of episode 10) doesn't lack of pacing. It's doing really well.

This drama has floated to the top of my list... but it's my own personal taste, so I'll tell you why I like it.

Feminism tests: It does pass the Bechdel test fairly easily. The woman has a goal outside of a man--the Mako Mori test? Yes. Is the female lead a Sexy lamp--none of the female characters are (though you might hate them for it at turns as their agency might be too wide for your taste *cough Hua'er *cough*).

Premise: Man'er goes into a farming game to pay off her student loans. In real life, she doesn't have that great of a family.

In the game she meets Shen Nuo, who is not her distant cousin or relative, but has a rather obvious secret identity, as long as you pay attention and read between the lines of the action. He kind of gets tacked onto the family--which Man'er's parents, maternal family, and Man'er know to be true, but her paternal family doesn't.

Over the course of the drama, you get to work out Shen Nuo's true identity and what he's doing there. In terms of being tsundere, I don't think he is, he's just a mysterious figure. He's too warm to be tsundere.

But Shen Nuo and Man'er work together to solve various problems around the farm, and give Man'er a chance to earn 1,000 coins. The drama tells you why she needs 1,000 coins fairly early, so I won't spoil it for you.

Production The costuming is actually pretty good, but obviously not expensive--it doesn't need to be. I like the directing choices, like long bits without dialogue which leads to visual jokes in the show. The music is probably better than usual with some jokes inserted along the way if you read the lyrics.

I rather like the cinematography, even if not "artsy" special, it still shows some thought in terms of lighting.

Even though there are two idols in the drama, I wouldn't 100% call it an idol drama--I mean it's not pure fluff with no logic in it. There's several points of logic and you have to pay attention. There is definitely a little meat in the drama (you'll get this joke once you watch it.).

The acting is fantastic--you hate everyone you're supposed to hate almost instantly. You love everyone you love almost instantly. And Tian Xi Wei is acting her socks off. I mean you thought you knew her range and had it down pat? Nope. She shows she has so much more to give you. Joseph Zeng is doing pretty well too, but the role needs to be given more umph, which they keep promising will come. The chemistry on screen is pretty good too.

Writing-wise... I think for some people they will find the paternal family too unbearable and quit, especially if they have family drama trauma. But it's not lacking in the writing department for what it hopes to be. Even the annoying characters, you can't quite skip over--they aren't useless. The twists and turns are entertaining. It gives a sense of farm life with the ups and downs very well.

Pay attention score: I think is 3/10--you can't just listen to it and get everything. You'll miss plot points. So it's a grade above the normal C-drama. I had to back up the drama a few times to catch some details. And the thing is if you miss those details, the drama kinda loses you along the way, though they still drop the rule of three so you really get the fact, but it won't silver platter it for you and spell it out and then hit you with the cloche to make sure you get it. If you do pay attention, the drama will pause to reward you along the way. You really should pay attention to episode 1-4 and maybe 5 and 6. 'cause there is pay off later for that. Skipping around will severely hurt you.

So I'd rate this a chicken stirfry with the grandmother super upset one of her chickens was used up, and the rest of the family arguing over who gets to eat the meat because the rest of the stirfry is vegetables. (You'll get this joke when you watch the drama) It's surprising at every bite once you get into it, even if it's a bit burnt because you taste a ton of bitterness, it's still entertaining. P.S. Hua'er arrrggghhh only in fiction I wish for people to be burned alive.

#chinese dramas #asian dramas

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asian-fiction · 6 months

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Blooming 一念花开

Episode Count: 30 Runtime: 40 minutes

Dubbed: Dubbed without own voices.

Remember Wulin Heroes? Yeah, this is like about the same flavor overall. Same production values. Same actress, same main female VA, and also dubbed.

Summary (better one because people asked)

Our hero, Mu Bai Zhenren, and heroine, Lian Wen used to be in a relationship 100 years ago, but due to some circumstances, the hero was cursed by the heroine to have this lotus blooming on his head if he should fall in love again. He also was supposed to guard this lotus, but he lost it. And then he disappeared. He belonged to the Qingyuan sect.

Tantan was found by the head of the Qingyuan sect and raised. But after Mu Bai Zhenren left, the sect is in deep disrepair.

By chance Tantan meets Cui Chen and quickly discovers he is the missing Mu Bai Zhenren. The secret comes out that if the pedals on his forehead bloom, a curse will fall on him. But, he also says that Tantan looks a lot like his past lover, despite them having the opposite personality.

He's on a quest to collect 7 seeds of the lotus (There are 2 already), but decides to help Tantan, whom he absolutely can't fall for because she's nothing like Lian Wen.

Mostly, it's them traveling around, solving various problems for villages/villagers, solving little cases here and there, while the writing takes various pot shots at conventions of xianxia, fantasy and other things. And then he gets the Macguffin--the lotus seeds along the way. I'm about 90% sure there are some puns I'm missing from the context that would make it funnier. (The names, for example, sound like they'd be jokes.)

Production values: Low. Really low. I mean, the shots are clever, and all that, but clearly they saved a lot of money here. It's not bottom of the barrel, but it's the same as Wulin Heroes. (also the humor is about the same).

You don't particularly have to pay attention that much to get the story, but it is funny. The jokes are mostly not visual, though there are a few minor ones.

The writer is from South Wind Knows.

The Director is from The Romance of the Tiger and Rose. His directing was livelier on Romance of the Tiger and Rose, but the cast chemistry in that one was amazing too. Directing isn't bad, but it's not the best always… I give it about 5-6

Writing-wise, 100% backburner to middle burner drama, for mostly silly laughs. It'll never be your first watch if there is something better on. 6/7 on writing. I'm sure I'm missing puns, etc.

Costuming I find creative for the low budget. It's shallow of me, but I like the owl costume, and some of the thought into the frog costuming. It's not over the top, why I love it, but it's lots of little things and thoughtful touches along the way.

People dunk on the female main character, but she is clever--able to figure out things for herself or with others, just immature in some ways, mostly thinking she's the prettiest, but being totally dense about love for herself. And romantically stunted (as in she can't see it, which is typical Chinese drama fair--should I start listing multiple Wuxia and Xianxia of this sort? Ashes of Love, for example. I got a ton more… but how long should I make the list? Should I throw in folktales for you?) She also has room to breathe and show she's clever often moving the events forwards in doing so, and doing little childish things.

There is overacting, but I forgive the drama for that because it's satire.

People hate this drama for the low production values. But I don't think one should confuse low production values for a bad story or bad actors. Production values is the smallest thing that one can control and I've seen some really good stories with low production values. Most of it is supposed to be satire of these types of stories. Some people like to go to restaurant dives and get a good meal over going to a fancy restaurant and getting terrible food.

Feminism tests:

Bechdel test: Two named women, check. Talk to each other. Check. About something other than men. Food. But it's directly followed by a conversation about men. It's slightly better than a marginal pass since it's not directly all about men.

Mako Mori: clean pass. She wants to be a better cultivator, but currently sucks. It's not about men.

Sexy Lamp: She's not a sexy lamp. But she does make the same joke from Wulin Heroes about being attractive while everyone ignores her. She does make decisions, learn a bit from her mistakes, and influences other characters to change the direction of the plot and way over more than one time. The ML does undercut her a bit a few times… which is played for laughs, but she does make clean decisions and learns and grows fairly quickly without him and take the lead.

So light satire type. Some people value production values highly. This isn't for you. Some people want high intrigue--this also isn't for you. Some people want political intrigue and seriousness… definitely not this drama.

If you want satire, with some puns, silliness, and a quick romp to run around with, this is that sort of drama. You'll probably get more of the jokes if you've watched Wuxia or Xianxia before.

#chinese drama #2023 #review

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asian-fiction · 6 months

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Blooming Days 岁岁青莲

Episodes: 36 Runtime: 45 minutes.

Someone said it's like New Life Begins--it's not. New Life Begins is warm and fuzzy and has women working together for a common goal. This is more like Ruyi's palace.

Summary:

The basic plot is that the King's concubine died giving birth to her son, and he's lusted over having another concubine like her for THIRTY YEARS in his harem. But Qinglian doesn't want to be in the royal harem and is trying to constantly escape it with her love. (Yi gege)

The main male lead, honestly, the character is an AH. He schemes to have Qinglian for himself, (which on some level is creepy because she resembles his mother?) instead of his father. And thus tries to claim her to be his concubine.

So through machinations, she's trying to escape being a concubine at any cost, but to do that, she has to survive the harem of women the princes have and their plots against her.

Through episode 4, I have no desire for the ML and FL to be together. I want her to win and escape the palace.

The clothes look loosely like Ming? I keep flipping between Song and Ming. Some of the hairstyles sometimes look like Qing, but I think they are supposed to be Han (people) descended.

Production values:

Likely dubbed, probably own voices. (i.e. I don't recognize the voices).

Visually it's purposefully composed, their some thoughtful cinematography in terms of composition and color.

Feminism tests because I'm asked…

Mako Mori: Woman wants something other than a man? Through episode 4, fail. While she doesn't want to get married into the royal family, she still wants a man, Yi. Mostly to run away with him.

Bechdel Test: Marginal pass. See, the Mako Mori fail is strong, so most of the dialogue is about men even when it's about women in an odd way. So talking about the person that resembles her? It's really about how the King loved his wife, which usually isn't that far behind.

Sexy Lamp test

The character makes a decision Yes, lots of own decisions.

Which affects other characters Yes. Several characters by episode 4.

Such that they learn something positive or negative such that the lesson learned is applied subsequently to the next step. (This can fail for about 3-4 times or they learn the wrong lesson)

This one is shaky. She doesn't seem to apply what she's learned from the previous steps, which makes her decisions hasty, and often she's led to do them under pressure, rather than take a step back, assess and then move forward. (Slightly different problem from Longest Disappointment)

Such that the events change direction based on those decisions/lessons

Nothing changes direction for her, rather since she has hasty action without solid plans, despite them saying she's clever, she's not really coming off clever. She doesn't think about step 2 and the plot moves too fast for her to prove her cleverness at any point.

Preferably more than one time.

Fail on 3 and 4, the fail on 3, is understandable. The fail on 4 is odd. Thus 5 also fails.

If you liked Ooku (really old Japanese taiga drama, not the gender switch one), Ruyi… then this is of that flavor. Lots of machinations, drama plotlines about women back stabbing each other, a woman trying to survive in a harem, it's that type.

Writing-wise, I think as of episode 4, it's a 5/10-maybe 6/10. Sometimes there are points where I think the writer could have paused and trusted the characters more rather than insert a new event to interrupt it. (The court scene, for example, could have played out better). In this way, it's more event-based than character illustrations. It's a list of bad or good things that need to happen, instead of letting the events play to their natural conclusions. Some people like this, but others, especially for politically heavy dramas like it to play out more.

If you want warm and fuzzy women cooperating--wrong drama, go somewhere else. This is mostly women fighting for a man and one woman trying to escape.

BTW, I still hate the male lead. He knew she wanted to escape with her man. He likely knew who plotted against her, etc. But then he also plotted to trap her. I'm so hoping she figures a way out.

Notes: The drama often relies on saying the main female character is clever without letter her *be* clever. And there is a huge difference in those things. The writer should give more time for the female character to be clever and have a result.

#chinese drama #romance #questionable romance #2023

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asian-fiction · 1 year

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How Subbing works (for East Asia)

I’ve made subs before either as part of a team, a small team, in different aspects. I worked professionally for a manga translating company (who also did video, but not really my job) doing editing, so some of this is pure insider information, but some of it is knowing how it works because I’ve hung out on translator websites.

In a lot of cases, knowing this info garners hate for some reason, and I don’t know why. ‘cause knowing how difficult it is to sub and how time consuming it is, somehow upsets people. But I think knowing how things work and not being rude about your manners is important so you don’t get subber burnout--so the good subbers and the to-be good subbers don’t get burned and you can learn some respect.

Mechanics of Subbing

Let’s go over the basics of how subbing works, so people can get a sense of the timings, and then launch into it. I’ve done ALL of these various capacities, except for principle/Head translator. I’ve gotten as far as medium.

I should note I did it mostly as fan translating capacities (though I used some Japanese and Korean for the manga/manhwa translating company)

Administrating/Coordinating

This means gathering people and trying to get it out in a timely fashion. I fan admined on Daniel Henney’s movie, My Father, which, BTW, his mother, a fellow adoptee thanked me for. (KAD community is rather close knit, I should note)

I did subs with a big fan of Daniel Henney, an Adoptive mother trying to learn Korean and it was me, who did quality checks and editing.

This is probably the biggest project I coordinated.

The problem is organization, and I admit to losing the subs because I sent them via e-mail, and yahoo ate them. TT (so the translator was ticked off. But she was a fan and we were friends, so she forgave me.)

Sometimes the coordinator has to find new subbers, check on the mental health of the translators, or crack their whip. I knew the coordinator for a Taiwanese drama, and we’re still friends. The timer and translators made jokes about running away from her. lol I ran away from translating some Korean for her. lol (I’m still loosely friends with one of the timers and the coordinator.) This may take a week or more to coordinate everyone and if you’re doing multiple episodes, getting people to commit can sometimes take months. Plus getting back ups--I’ve also coordinated for manga/manhwa, but that’s a different process.

Timing

The next bit is the timing. Timing usually takes a day or two, if you’re marathoning it. This is raw timing, as in you’re working with raws, no cues, nothing. Sometimes it’s the same person, in which case this takes time on its own. Sometimes it’s a separate person. Usually you need either viki or a separate program. Sometimes the timer prefers to plug the translated subs as they are timing it. Timing is a chore, because you have to work with the beats of the story so you don’t spoil it, and make sure it lines up. Sometimes timing comes pre-made, but this doesn’t mean it works always with translation--because as I said, timing might spoil the timing of the episode. (I’ll go into this in the translation part).

For me, it’s the divide between kinda mindless and you have to pay attention. With the subs I did and helped with, I’m often tweaking timing in post on my computer because I want it to be perfect, though it’s rather pointless when I’ve already watched it.

Translating

Spot translating

Most people don’t see what the point of this is. But if the main translator has to go over all of the common lines over and over it means they can’t concentrate on the more difficult translations, thus slowing down the process, so if they can concentrate on the more difficult things, it speeds things up.

Spot translating also gives an opportunity for people who are just learning the language to get a thrill of feeling like they understand and getting corrected by fellow users. So from a language-learning angle, it means interaction without having to face people.

Head Translator

Head translator, as previously stated, often coordinates the translators below them, makes standards for how things will be translated (are there going to be translator notes, what words which are tricky to be translated are going to be standardized as, etc), and works on the harder-to-translate items. Sometimes there aren’t spot translators, so they have to do them on their own.

Why Translating is so hard

Most of translating is hair pulling. It’s a different skill from speaking a language, or writing a language. You need to translate cultural concepts. I suppose going into the theory, etc is an essay itself. But I should shorten to say that the leaning is heavily going towards more literal translation with less cultural items being translated.

For me, for example, I refuse to translate: names, cultural clothes, cultural titles and food. This is pretty close to standard these days, with some people disagreeing about cultural titles.

So for example -oppa, -san, -sensei, bisha, etc, people disagree. Eomma, mama, etc often are also disagreed on by translators on text and on screen. Going over why and cultural reasons, is a whole other essay, which I suppose I could write and link up, but the trend with translation is to pretty much keep it.

But it’s pretty standard to not translate cultural food items. Like something like nikuman, japchae, wonton aren’t going to get translated. But something like “pan” would probably be translated as “Bread” with a cultural note about “pan” if there is a pun. (puns are the devil in translation.)

The thing about translating is that it’s often like ice skating. If it goes well, no one notices, but sometimes, you want to put a bit of a stamp of yourself on it, and the question is always, how much.

Beyond that some items don’t translate no matter how hard you try to translate them. Nunchi, as a concept, doesn’t quite translate that well. Koreans have been overtranslating it a bit as perception, but it’s not quite that.

And sometimes a singular word that becomes key to a drama, has several ways to translate it. For example, Xīn, Kokoro, mauem, in Chinese, Japanese and Korean translate pretty much one to one. But in English can split to mean mind or heart and sometimes feelings. (Note for the etymology nerds out there, Heart used to mean mind and heart). So when the characters MEAN both and use BOTH, and say it’s summed up in one word, translators are ripping their hair out trying to figure out which one to use, if they should switch it as it means it, or use a note.

Other hang ups, include poetry (which is the most difficult to translate)--do you follow rhythm, meaning, doubled meaning, both, somewhat, modernized, not modernized, etc. How do you translate and consider the author in question?

And the thing is, a lot of the translation has to be done by a human to get these small nuances. We haven’t even gotten into grammar quirks, like translating a subject-object-verb to a subject verb object when the sentence is being cut off difficulties.

One can be bilingual and also be terrible at translating. Translating is more than just the language, it’s social cues, and as one translator put it--you have to watch the episode with the subs in place to make sure the context is correct.

Translating can take 1-3 days, depending on free time because of the refining process. The more translators you have, the faster it’ll go, and so it can turn around with an army of translators in a few hours. But one translator, 1-3 days.

Under translating v. Over translating

Translation comes in a scale. From the completely literal subs to the figurative over translated subs. Generally people want to philosophically hit around the middle of the two. And usually don’t translate, as I said, specific items. In the past, over translation was more of the trend, but among translators now, they are leaning towards keeping specific cultural items to enhance the understanding of the text, and adding cultural notes.

Under translating can be things like machine subs, which are intelligible to the viewer.

Over translating would be say... calling a nikuman a doughnut or Jap chae “Spaghetti.”

Over translating can also treat the viewer as completely dumb and lock out the person reading the text from getting the text’s nuances.

This is why most translators hit a little less than completely in the middle.

Literal Translation v. Figurative v. Colloquial

“공자 앞에서 문자 쓴다”

Literal translation: Write hanja in front of Confucius.

Figurative translation: Don’t explain to an expert.

Colloquial translation: Don’t teach a fish to swim.

The problem is that sometimes, especially with jokes, the literal translation is: “Ah, you’re writing hanja to Confucius.”

“Confucius wasn’t that much of an expert on rooves.”

So then the question becomes, do you transform “Confucius” into a fish for colloquial translation, put in a translator’s note, or do you try for the figuartive translation and ignore Confucius completely? You need sometimes the whole episode or several episodes to figure it out. And if you choose wrong it’s going to be strange translating other episodes later.

This comes into play with poetry translation too. It’s really hard to nail things like texture, rhythm, rhyme, timings, and feels with poetry. Which do you preserve?

Quality Check

Quality check does editing, timing refining, and also checks for discrepancies between translation and the scene. For example, Aoi in Japanese can mean blue or green. And if the person typed in blue for a traffic light, then Quality checks will pick it up.

For me, the hardest part was often people said they wanted to quality check, but then didn’t do the work and only said they wanted to do it to get the subs earlier. When I did it I often was picky about smaller things. It helps a bit to know both languages, so you can help fix it, but isn’t necessary.

Sometimes Quality checks look for missing text on the screen that the translator missed, but didn’t translate, because they were only listening.

When transcribing, BTW, Quality checks still need to be done.

Regional Differences for East Asia and some history

Before the Internet

Usually, it was concentrated in small batches for the most popular TV shows in Japanese, Korean and Chinese, for mostly local TV stations on select shows. Mostly around SF, Los Angeles, and other large cities. For example, one could watch Dae Jang Geum without subs, but some of the shows were scattered subbed. Some of them weren’t that popular, but got subbed anyway. (Prince’s First Love, which was a terrible, terrible drama) got subbed. So this meant it was spotty, at best. But if you were lucky, your video store would have them.

Early Internet

In the early internet, there were no formal sites that subbed, so the majority was handled by fansubbers and websites like Soompi. The dramas weren’t getting licensed, and the turn around for each episode took about a week. (See above for why).

Dramafever

Around this time is when the old website Dramafever came into being. They originally used Soompi translations, though often without credit or permission, pissing off some of the translators. They lost street cred with the drama community when their legal department went after one of the translators they stole from. (He worked on a historical drama, and Historical dramas are !@#$ hard to translate.)

There were rumors also that they drove Viki, which at the time was a smaller company, out of the United States by saying one could not share the licenses. But Viki had previously said they could share the license, so Dramafever was jealous at how fast Viki could turn around subs and then instead of sharing licenses, tried to acquire them faster.

The people who ran the website were Korean.

Eventually they died when Hulu took them over and then killed the entire section, which they sued for.

Viki

Viki crowd-sourced subs, which meant that subs could come out in hours for the popular dramas. This came with downsides, such as the subs were published far too soon, and often translators didn’t have time to check the subs. There was also no time often to add cultural notes and the messed up the system in order to do so because they couldn’t figure out how to make the “cultural notes” section *only* for the subbers.

Japanese and Chinese companies early on opted in, but then quickly opted out. Why is outlined below. (Also, the company was run by Koreans, so some world politics had a hand).

The part that Koreans found annoying was because the subs were rushed and there was no room for cultural notes, often people would misuse honorifics such as “Oppa” “Nuna”, etc. The one that really grates on Korean is the random use of “Chingu” which it does’t work that way in Korean... this led to the rise of...

Korea and Koreaboos

Korea is one of those countries that wants your tourism money, but famously both Korean diaspora and native Koreans say is xenophobic. Getting into why is a whole chore, so believe me on this one. It’s unbelievably xenophobic.

https://www.glimpsefromtheglobe.com/regions/asia-and-the-pacific/south-koreas-exploitation-of-migrant-workers/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/asa250072006en.pdf

But Korea is less famous for its xenophobia.

That said Korea had been focusing for a loooooonnnnggg time on trying to break into the European and US markets. There’s celebrities who were supposed to do so dating back to the 1980′s. The Korea government and entertainment companies had been trying to strictly raise several idols to being able to sing in English with no accent for this exact purpose. Often the same song was translated into English, Japanese and Chinese from the Korean version. This, however, did not work.

So when the internet hit, it was slow, but the Korean government encouraged it. This of course, backfired mostly with the advent of Viki and the rise of Koreaboos because of the badly managed cultural notes.

Koreans are united on one thing though: We hate Koreaboos. But we don’t agree on how to deal with them. These are people who not only misuse words, but do things like “My coworker is Korean whom I barely talk to...” and things like cry out in anguish and white tears (Mostly white) when they are corrected on the spelling of words in Korean even with a friendly heads up. And then call the Korean “rude” for “Hey, I wanted to give you a heads up that you misspelled this Korean word.” or even, “That’s not how that Korean word is used.” with a “I can do whatever I like. You can’t take away my individual freedom.”

And translators from then on started over translating subs to try to compensate. This spilled over into books as well, such as Hong Gil Dong is over translated with terms like Musin, Mugyo, etc, which traditionally would be kept then explained, over translated instead. This sort of over translation looks both faster at speed and also to lock out outsiders from the inner Korean culture while presenting this facade of liking foreigners, which is patently not true, as “Annyeonghaseyo” the show about Korean people’s grievances often showed.

This meant by the time Netflix got into subbing, they were often over translated, and this is where Korean Diaspora and Native Koreans tend to disagree. Native Koreans often want to lock out foreigners into knowing the finer parts of using honorifics, etc with cultural notes and over translate. This facade, they think will drive people to like Korea more and thus drive the government’s want of tourism money. Korean Diaspora often want to give an in to foreigners so they learn respect and then stop using Oppa, etc inappropriately, but keep the more literal subs.

The motivation for this is simple, Korean Diaspora have to interact with out-group people often, and get misunderstood often. So often asking for deeper understanding leads to less racism.

But for Native Koreans, locking out foreigners is generally more desirable because of the long, long history that’s too long for this post. If everyone likes Korea or shallow reasons (And I’ve literally been told by Native Koreans to “shut up” about the downsides of Korea... as a Korean), then people will like Korea more. But this causes a lot more problems for diaspora. They really don’t consider Korean diaspora and there is a “Koreanness” ranking system (which also goes for Japan and China.) So Korean diaspora with an edge of snobbishness aren’t “real Koreans” and knowing less English than English-speaking Korean diaspora, there is “no problem” with over translating because the objectives are different.

This of course the media picks up on a lot. They LOVE to say that Koreans in Korea are “real Koreans” who have no objections (Much like Japan and China) because *cough* racism, and *cough* more racism, often stating so with white journalists. Because you know they really understand Korea as a non-Korean, which is why they go to people who don’t know Korean and have never translated dramas

The first racism is the idea that there is an ideal Korean. In creating this, it holds up Koreans who never experienced racism as the ideal and the idea they know Korean more, despite the fact Koreans have been in the US since 1903, but the major push came after the Korean war. (UK, it’s about 1980′s)

The second more deeply racist reason is because there is a notion that Asians need to “Go back” to Asia and away from white people who somehow own all of the United States, despite the land being stolen from Indigenous populations. Much like after slavery, whites tried very much to blame Blacks for the “Back to Africa: movement. This also then invalidates any complaints diaspora have about racism, which Native Koreans/Japanese and Chinese are ignorant to. By making Native Koreans “more valid” it’s saying that racism doesn’t exist. This is often the magic of journalists managing to find that one person in the diversity that disagrees and holding them up as the “real example.” But Native Korean don’t know they are being used this way because they don’t know racism as well as the diaspora.

Of course people eat this up, not realizing how racist this is and think that Native Koreans “Speak the real Korean” rather than the whole move is really problematic in the first place.

But because of Viki’s quick translations, this hurdled Korea into the first place ranking with dramas. People were impatient and really didn’t care about cultural notes. Some people, in my experience, are actively angry at cultural notes and real history.

Japan

We have to wander back a bit to something that seems seemingly unrelated: Cars. And then you can understand Japan.

Japan is famously more xenophobic.

But given that, let’s go back to cars.

At the time, the US import tax was really high, especially on cars. This caused problems because prior, cars, particularly Japanese cars had been selling well. An American entrepreneur came up with an idea to try to solve this dilemma, but couldn’t find anyone in Europe to take the idea. He tried to particularly sell it to Germany (Saab,etc).

Well, he went to Japan and Japan ate it up--this solved a few problems. It not only solved the tariff on cars problem, but it promised something Japan really tends to like: control over the entire product and quality checks end to end.

https://www.autocarpro.in/feature/america-japanese-car-usa-26972

So this meant setting up the company on foreign shores and then setting up operations there with a “Branch” from the main company, avoiding expensive shipping fees, etc.

This model did eventually get exported to Germany, when the guy went to Germany and was like, “Hey, did you see those Japanese?” and became more of a standard model of car manufacture.

Taking this model, Japan tried to apply it to about everything. Who can blame them? Get around tariffs by building the product elsewhere, and then still have control over the process.

Japan tried it with anime re-internet and manga, setting up branches or pseudo branches with major companies. Shueisha, a famous Japanese manga company famously deals with only one US company.

Other companies were of this flavor as well... but the internet doesn’t work well with this model.

If Korea has Koreaboos, Japanese also hate weeaboos, so they were far more cautious when it came to importing books, manga and television shows. They wanted to share them, but in a concentrated way. The really off-the-cuff reality TV shows that weirdly border on abuse... don’t import those. What they wanted to do was to have US-native companies that were Japanese, because they felt burned by imports in previous decades, particularly with Anime. More control.

So when Viki rolled around, Japanese were less likely to sign with them. They wanted to find a way to sell it to the public in a controlled fashion. Thus partnering with Crunchyroll, etc. But this also meant that they lost the subbing game. Because their subs being controlled by the company were much, much slower.

Thus the majority of Japanese dramas are translated by fans.

I suppose they were right, since Weeaboos backed off and Koreaboos became a thing. Their reluctance is kind of understandable considering the whole Vincent Chin and “Internment” camps.

China

China came late to the subbing party. Partially China according to own voices Chinese I’ve talked to experienced a lot of Chinese hating Chinese dramas, which is still the case. They ended up lost for a number of years on what to do about it because Chinese liked Korean and Japanese dramas more to the point that the Chinese government tried to ban importation on and off.

But it saw the problem between the extremes--Korea with the influx of Koreaboos.

And Japan with not being able to hit the market and getting choked out of it for being too slow.

So, so far, China has tried to make sure that the companies that make the dramas also sub them. But because of the production system in China, even if the episodes are pre-made, the censorship board has the last say, so often the episodes can’t be pre-translated. With the demand for faster and faster subs, some series that they guess will not garner interest get machine subbed.

Some of it is because the sheer volume of episodes has ballooned into whopping 40+ episode series with 6 episodes released every week. This makes it really hard on fan subbers, which means that China’s companies do it themselves. The high episode count is also the reason Chinese dramas never really took off compared to Taiwanese dramas. This is kind of a marriage between the Korean and Japanese versions of subbing which gives China more control.

The subs run more literal as more series are machine subbed first and then cleaned up in post by humans, which isn’t always ideal.

They are still experimenting with how to monetize subbed programs.But being a C-drama fan is really difficult since dramas don’t always come out when you want and the dramas you want might never materialize at a more alarming rate than Japan and Korea.

And the Fanship...

Don’t get it and ask for faster subs, which then kills the better subbers. I’ve heard of fans sending DEATH THREATS over subs not being made fast enough for them. Like WTF is wrong with you that something that is FREE and you want to send death threats?

But people keep demanding faster subs, rather than better quality subs. And really, I think people should back off and ask for better quality subs. People have deleted my comments to this effect before. Quality subs take time with all aspects of timing to make it more understandable to the viewers, which include cultural notes, better timing with the story, and the best translations possible to capture the nuances.

If you want faster subs, offer to help, as I’ve outlined you don’t always need to know the language in order to make subs. And be genuine about the help when you do so.

FAQ

- Why are Japanese subs sooo slowwww?

It’s not that Japanese subs are slow, it’s that Korean translation is fast, plus you’re dealing with a fan subber more often than not. They often have school/work, and are doing other things. You’re getting it for free. You can do something else in the meantime, like learn Japanese.

- But some Japanese subs only take 2-3 days.

Often those have the closed captioned Japanese soft subs already made. This unfortunately often leads people to try to machine translate sub the subs without watching the drama/action with it to try to nail the translation. Because Japanese is highly contextual, this causes a lot of issues, plus because it’s closed caption, often they miss on-screen Japanese which they should have caught in the subbing process. This means they skipped the QC process in order to get the subs out faster and also means they missed out on key text.

Japanese fan subbers who turn it around in 24 hours are not to be trusted since they often leave in the closed caption cues making the subs cumbersome to read. This is why the subbers who take 2-3 days are more reliable. Timing itself can take a day or two to get right.

The really good subbers, though, take the timings from Japanese and refine them for English/other languages so the timing matches the language, which means repeatedly watching the drama ad nauseum to get it correct. Most Japanese subbers these days don’t do that, though I’m the kind of subber that would.

- But Koreans subs come out in a few hours...

Because of Viki, which is a subbing platform. Japanese companies don’t want Viki to have the license for the reasons outlined above.

- Are Netflix Korean dramas over translated?

Yes. Compared to other Korean subs, definitely. They tend to over translate more, especially to public v. closed captioned subs than other people who sub dramas.

- Why are some Chinese dramas machine subbed?

Because people are demanding faster and faster subs, but not asking for quality at the same time. If you want better subs, then say the words, “I love the fact that you use humans to sub. Thank you. I will wait for subs and be patient.”

If you keep asking for faster subs, the machine translation waits for you on the other side. Please don’t be a part of the problem and thank your HUMAN translators early and often.

- Why are there raw episodes ahead of the subbed episodes?

Meaning of words become more apparent over time. Since Japanese and Korean in particular are context-driven, this means that a single word can mean something different in episode 1 on the surface than episode 6, and a good subber will watch the episodes ahead of time to make sure that the context in episode 1 matches episode 6. This drives some subbers up the wall as things like the name of the character is apparent in Episode say 10/16, but they’ve been misspelling it the entire time, leading to problems.

Also sometimes the meaning can’t be translated in the current context well and isn’t apparent until a few episodes later and trying to nail the semantic differences is hard.

Let’s take, say, Lord of the Rings, if you’re told “Ring Wraiths” is a thing, how do you translate that to another language? What if there is no concept of wraiths in the language? But you’re introduced to them as “Shadowy figures”-->Ghosts-->vengeful ghosts. Say as a subber, you want to nail that progression in the other language as close to one to one as possible.

What if there is a single word for “Shadowy figure” in the other language, but the English text makes it seem like the word is “Shadow” and there is a separation in the language between “Shadow” and “Shadowy figure.” But you don’t find out this is the case until much later. Well, you go with shadow, and then the viewers are confused--on screen it was clearly a shadowy figure in the very next episode/scene and now it makes no sense that you’ve used “Ghosts” as the next progression because shadow is an object.

So yes, you need a cushion.

- But why is the text on screen not translated?

There are two reasons: The person only understands the language in spoken form, or they went with the Japanese closed caption subs and didn’t check for on-screen Japanese.

- What is double translating?

For example, from Japanese to Mandarin to English instead of Japanese to English.

- Why is double translating bad?

Often subtle nuances are lost in double translation. For example, the Japanese to Mandarin to English, that’s traveling across three different language groups.

There are words and meanings in Japanese that translate better directly to English.

People can sometimes feel the difference when watching show with subs. The subs may feel too formal or too flat for the situation because when translating to Chinese from Japanese, it worked for Chinese, but the ame formality level doesn’t work for the same situation in English and literal translation shouldn’t have been used.

- What can I do to help speed up subs in a productive way?

For one series I loved, I connected the subber to translators and ASKED permission first if I could do so and help them out. They said yes, so I asked my friends to help out with the project. Unfortunately the person got buried in life, and the rest of the subs didn’t come out, but there are things like that one can do. Black humor is rare, though...

For Chinese series, sometimes the older ones or the machine subbed ones are terrible and you can look for them and attempt to clean them up to practice your subbing skills. I wouldn’t encroach on actively, done-by-the company subs. Keep in mind you probably should work off of raws, rather than putting subs over footage that’s already subbed for both sound reasons and because sometimes the Chinese companies tried to lure people into buying the episodes by cutting out the sound. (This tactic did not work).

Basically, you volunteer to do something for the translation team, and even a short, “Thank you for human translating these subs, I really appreciate it.” and not asking for subs faster can really be encouraging--if the person is paid or not. It also sends a message to the various companies that you really like their work. BTW, if you’re going to criticize subs, be sure to be very clear that you appreciate any work they’ve humanly done to the subs in question FIRST before making any criticisms and make sure you know what you are talking about. Human subbers are precious.It’s not respect to tell a person faster without a thank you, and understanding the hardships of the subbing process.

- Is fan subbing illegal?

Technically yes. It’s under the distribution clause of the copyright act convention.

Fan subbers also aren’t supposed to take money for subbing. because they can be sued under Hague convention copyright law. Early day subbers swore up and down to never take money for their subs to keep out of legal trouble and ethical trouble. However, some subbers have gotten bolder these days and asked for money for their subs, which is why they don’t want them on streaming websites.

- Will blocking fan subs from being on streaming sites help prevent legal action?

Technically, East Asia doesn’t really care that much. Korea facilitates it through Viki, Netflix and exports some subtitling to China (for some reason--no clue why.). China does their own subs, but doesn’t seem to care about fan subbing of series they don’t do on especially older series. Most fan subbers don’t bother because of the length of the series and the amount that comes out per week.

Japan pretty much ends up helping doing sub by releasing closed captions... which magically started appearing after they semi-gave up trying to monetize the dramas overseas. Closed Captions, though miss out on phone cues.

In addition, some shows that get regularly fan subbed, such as Running Man would not exist without the international support. Shows such as Running Man understand this and thus encourage fan subs of their shows. That said, if they wanted to take legal action against fan subbers, especially those making bank on subs, they could. I should note that most of my subbing was done on Viki rather than independently and I never, ever took money for anything I did.

- Why are there streaming sites then?

The majority of people do not own desktop or large gig computers. If an episode is 10+ GB, and a Japanese series, for example, is 100 GB+, most devices can’t handle that and the bandwidth. If a person is watching a bunch of different shows, they may want to not have a TB of dramas. Very few people own desktops anymore. But rich people can own a tablet, a cellphone, a laptop and the a desktop.

And people do watch forwards and then back watch episodes and skip around occasionally.

In the old days back when the threat of companies who did not understand the internet, avoiding streaming websites was seen as a courtesy because often there were no tools to geoblock sites or regions. But the technology has caught up and changed. And while there are VPNs, the shift for those companies is more of the flavor of merchandising objects that aren’t the DVD/blueray box set.

The reasoning to stay off of the streaming website doesn’t exist anymore as Japan, Korea, and China are not that far behind in figuring out how to monetize shows. They sell the deluxe DVD/blueray set for the clear fan of the show. They sell merchandise... along the lines of and you will also get in the box set... etc. (Which subbers don’t translate anymore, but they should if they respect the show because this grifting is also supposed to be for international fans to support their favorite shows--I translated it for that reason when everyone else skipped it.)

The US/UK, though are pretty clueless... but that’s separate.

But I want to protect my subs...

Hard sub, do not soft sub. Put in your credit for subs.

- Why do people quit subbing a series/altogether?

Death threats, real life, it ruins their enjoyment of the drama, or the drama turns out to not be that great in the later episodes.

One subber I knew quit fan subbing because they had college work and never finished the series. People also sent them death threats...

The repeated watching of a series can also ruin the series. This is necessary for good subbing.

And finally sometimes watching the raw, you realize the series is trash in the later episodes, and you quit. Sometimes the audience is too small to make it worth one’s while.

One subber switched the series because they liked doing Historicals over Contemporary and they had high hopes for the historical drama.

You can prevent quitting by stopping people asking for subs faster, thanking your subbers for being human, and generally recognizing you’re dealing with a human being by being a human being yourself.

- Why do people fan translate?

Sometimes it’s to learn the language. But I’ve also heard things such as because their relative is deaf and they need subs and a whole host of other reasons.

#subbing #fan subbing #east asia #translating #translation #translators #subbing history

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asian-fiction · 2 years

Text

Cultural Notes for Alchemy of Souls Episode 2

You can find Alchemy of Souls cultural notes, Episode 1 here: https://www.asian-fiction.com/post/692962304658112512/cultural-notes-for-alchemy-of-souls-episode-1

So yeah, back for episode 2′s cultural notes. Added some images, etc so you can see some minor differences.

The santization from Netflix is kinda disturbing, honestly. It’s a streaming service, so shouldn’t they not care as much? I think there are ways to translate without tripping over the ableism, etc.

I also bothered to explain some of the base mythology ‘cause Daoism is NOT Mugyo. Mugyo is attested to be older, most likely. (It’s neck and neck with Wu jiao and Mugyo, though).

Hong Sister Notes: - The whole I don't want to embarrass myself by asking for help, is often a theme in Hong Sister dramas going way back to their first drama, My Sassy Girl Chun Hyang. They love this theme a lot. When are you too reliant? When should you ask for help? They also like to make their characters hard working along the way to achieve their goals (you might recognize this in this episode where the MacGuffin doesn’t technically work.) - The whole note about how the soul can go into a male or female body isn't that surprising for most people, but the Hong Sisters are making a positive trans statement here, though subtle and have often made such statements in dramas before, which is why they have high popularity with the younger gen. in Korea. They also tend towards subtle feminist statements too, but you have to be up on Korean feminism to often get them (i.e. understand the current political climate).

Cultural Notes: - 7:32-7:34 You need to look down--this was true of slaves of Joseon, but he's also saying it in a non-Joseon way. (They oscillate a bit between contemporary speech to pure Joseon, it's a bit harder for people to usually pick up.) - Around 11:16, Mudeok changes to Joseon speech, deferential in both inflection and tone. Even Contemporary deferential speak doesn't do that. And the subs aren't doing it justice, which is also making me cry. It's such a good joke. - I'll say it now, the subs don't do it justice... It's to the point I wish English-speakers knew at least a first Year of Korean, because the slipping in and out of Joseon Speech is hilarious. - The note about "gap between soul and body" is taken from some of the concepts of Mugyo. Given that I can't avoid talking about it, I'll launch the longer conversation at the end of the notes. - Sapsali is a breed of dog, native to Korea. Two other breeds better known are the Neureungi and Jindo. It looks like this:

- Originally I got a crush on the dog breed and posted about it on Dramabeans way back in the day before they started to show up in K-dramas, because it was being revived. And I sooo wanted/want one. (Ghost Typewriter), so posted about how much I wanted one, etc and then they started to show up in dramas. There are complaints that because the current Sapsali was revived using bits of Poodle, etc, that it's not like the original at all compared to the paintings, but the mythology is that they bark at ghosts and scare off evil spirits.

And if you think this is a coincidence, nope. Often Korean drama writers and their staff hang out on Dramabeans and will glean ideas. So you can use that for good or ill. (Please use it for good...)

(Dogzone.com)

You can see the differences and the accusation it’s a different dog... they went almost extinct and were revived... so...

https://nationalpurebreddogday.com/from-the-brink-of-extinction/

And yes I want one... I so want one.

- Around 1:09:25 노는 정말 돌았어. No nun Cheongmal dorasseo This is more crazy idiotic. Dora means to turn, BTW, but here means crazy

This is different from michyeosseo used later, which means purely out of your mind/crazy.

You might recognize the roots of this in: 늙다리미치광이 (Which I'm not giving you the romaja of.) which is what Kim Jong Un called former President Trump. (BTW, highly insulting, but Korean while not the best language on Earth for insults is probably up there.

You can see the differentiation here: https://ko.hinative.com/questions/972001

Clothing Notes:

- I thought I would pick out the ahistorical patterns....

BTW, the Black and white one directly above this line is clearly synthetic.

By the time of Joseon, patterns like this were rare for inner clothes especially, v. outer coats. (Durumagi) and would have been impossible to make with the tech of the time. The Ming Dynasty (parallel to Joseon) overall liked more plain patterned clothes... so... when the clothes design was revealed, and then adapted to Korean tastes, *soime* not all of the aesthetics got imported with it. This included less patterned material, except for really expensive outer clothing. (Last post had pictures) There were patterns in Korean history, though, but nothing really close to this.

- Ahistorical hanbok

The shoes here are mary janes and not historically accurate.

The closest ones that would be accurate look like this:

I have to admit Mary Janes were really late in Korean history and probably have some Qing influence, though I remember them more from the Imperial age--I’m not up on my Chinese shoe history though, so double check this.

This particular dress design has some thanks to give to Musin influences:

(Credit Wikipedia Muism page)

This is a Baksu, a male Musin.

You can also see it here:

http://ethlenn.blogspot.com/2012/11/korean-shamanism.html

The thing about Mugyo is that it’s LGBTQIA-friendly. Something the last elected president of this 2022 post wants you to ignore is true. Early Korean history is said to have been friendly to LGBTQIA and women. And Mugyo has often protected both groups, which is also why in history its often put down. The dress design echoes that. (I’ll cover the eunbok too... but with the Geumbok)

But this is intentional, obviously given the scenes.

This is supposed to be a Queen’s dress. Technically it’s the wrong historical colors, but that’s too involved to explain in detail. (Yes, I know, fictional world, but it’s worth noting.)

This is a take on the Dangui which should look like this:

Wikimedia Commons, BTW. The hair style is honestly a bit more like Goryeo than Joseon, if you compare:

Wikimedia commons.

Contemporary painting of Noguk

https://www.collectikult.com/goryeo-costumes-korean-historical-dramas/

So Eun Bak and Geumbak

This is so difficult to do and the fact they did it aon *custom* hanbok just for the show is extravagant. To give you an idea, the average hanbok, custom made can easily reach 200-500 USD. But a Geumbak of that grade and size, could reach up to 1000 USD, easily if they hire specialized crafts people to make it. And if they used genuine hanbok material, guksa in silk, etc, it’s going to make your heart drop. To give you and idea....

regular silk is about 25 USD a yard. (2022) prices. For a hanbok you need 3x the waist of the person making it about 3-5 years. But Guksa costs a freaking ton of money. And the silk stuff even more. Imagine more like 300-50 dollars a yard. AND the dresses if you look carefully have secondary patterning on them. Makes your heart drop.

You think Geumbak and Eunbak is easy... Oh, you don’t know do you?

https://english.visitseoul.net/entertainment/Kum-BakYeon-Workshop-Gold-Leaf-Imprint_/18963

They have custom made blocks... and use real gold... and remember, these are custom-made- not rented like a lot of the historical dramas, dresses.

Makes you feel like a lot of the budget went towards custom clothing.

Eunbak is silver, and Geumbak is gold leafing. And that is really difficult to achieve. And you might not think so, but I tried to get a hanbok repaired with Geumbak on it and the shop owner laughed in my face and said of course not. lol

Netflix overtranslating is the bane of my existence; Translation issues: - Jang uk is changed to Uk. You hate surnames that much? For context reasons, it often matters because it influences things like how the character is speaking and respect levels, so adhering to it helps comprehension of the drama in the long run. I get that Korean translators are trying to “Americanize” it or whatever, but I think it hinders understanding of the drama and how to be respectful once they are in Korea giving that tourism money. - Around 10:18 took out swearing: "What is his problem" was originally, "What is this Jerk's problem." O.o;; Why sanitize it? It was funnier with the original. It’s a mild swear word. I don’t know why sanitize it for Netflix. Koreans have some of the best compound swear words. - Took out swearing again around 13:00--Kaesuri is more like "Dog shit." (Not exact translation, but similar) It's supposed to be a joke because you don't expect Joseon-eque people talk that way, but they sanitized it and took out the joke. (I'm going to cry in the corner now--they are butchering Hong Sister drama's comedy and timings.) - 56:11 The literal translation is: "Then go ahead die." "Be my guest" is overshooting it.

The longer essay on Souls in Mugyo:

Mugyo is a native Korean religion. It’s said Koreans probably come from the Siberian Peninsula, so think Evenk, Yakut, etc. Some of the shamanism comes from that region, but Mugyo isn’t pinnable to one area or one religion and has changed over time. There are variations depending on region as well, so this is roughly Seoul-based look at Mugyo and souls.

As with a lot of Shamanism, Mugyo thinks the corporeal body and souls are separate entities that can be detatched from each other. Mugyo believes in a “living soul” and a “dead soul” The Dead soul attaches to the living soul. The dead soul is permanent, and the living soul is integrated with the corporeal body and thus integrated. This is the theory of how musin are able to separate from their bodies, etc. There are a lot of rules surrounding the process of dying with souls in mugyo. What’s portrayed in the show (so far) is roughly some of the rules of Mugyo being used. For example, being able to separate from a body, what happens if you should leave your body for a number of days, and the inability to manifest powers readily because the soul is in a different body (is somewhat tied to Mugyo).

Mugyo also believes since the dead soul knows no time, space, etc that it can always attach to a living body, especially with invitation. So you can see some of these aspects in the mythos so far. (They’ve expelled a lot of the Biuddhism aspects, kinda surprising me)

So, this would make soul transmigration roughly possible, but the Hong sisters bent a few of the rules here and there. They only mention one soul, they haven’t explained the internal mechanics, and there isn’t an indication of more than one soul. I’ll update as we go, but this should give you some of the context they are working off of. As said before, Hong Sisters like playing with native Korean religions, especially the ones that border on Feminist or boost women.

#Korean dramas #cultural notes #Alchemy of Souls

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asian-fiction · 2 years

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Cultural Notes for Alchemy of Souls Episode 1

So the whole thing is that people who haven’t watched enough Korean fusion dramas are crying, “But so much like Xian Xia“ while ignoring the actual history of East Asia, and East Asian relations, history of K-dramas, and also have 100% ignorance about the Hong Sisters. I am Korean, BTW, I do make Hanbok, (I also make hanfu before so I could figure out influences on Hanbok) but I hate cultural fetishists.

Oh yay, more Koreaboo nonsense.

Look, I don’t hate ignorance, but I do hate willful ignorance while acting like you actually know something, when you never put in the effort. So let’s get into it.

The aesthetics of the drama aren't Wuxia or Xianxia, since the majority of Xianxia tend to be based around the aesthetics of the Han, Tang and Song dynasty clothes. (And believe me, I studied my butt off about it.) But the majority of the clothes in Xianxia are ahistorical and are made out of chiffon and organza, rather than historically accurate cloth. And as Avenue X often says (Chinese BTW), bland as anything.

(For that reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pclx90lcxoQ

)

Here are actual (Chinese) Han dynasty clothes:

Here are Xianxia Clothes:

(Pillow Book) The clothes from the Alchemy of Souls are from Joseon, (though scattered from various times in Joseon) that's equivalent to "Ming" and "Qing" So if you think the clothes are "exactly the same as Xian Xia and Wuxia--Oh man, you've just shown your ignorance about China and Korea in one go. (And Chinese have a right to breathe on you just the same as I'm about to).

But for Alchemy of Souls, the aesthetics are from the Joseon era:

For China, this is equivalent to Ming-Qing Dynasties, which is a different aesthetic. (Korea held onto Ming and modified them later on, but getting into the whole thing takes a history lesson and a half.)

Joseon==1392-1897 CE

Han Dynasty==202 BCE – 9 CE, 25–220 CE

So equating them is being totally ignorant of Chinese and Korean history and the reason Asiophiles are problematic. Love the art, have none of the knowledge about history, wider culture and then make false assessments on that ignorance.

They bent the aesthetics in several ways:

- the windows aren't from any specific historical era and are ahistorical.

- The patterns used on the clothing are ahistorical and would have gotten them killed during Joseon. (There was color coding on clothes during Joseon)

- The clothes are spread across several eras, for example, the lower class is dress like early Joseon, but the gisaeng are dressed Late Joseon.

You can tell which is which by the length of the jeogori (or the top of the hanbok). REALLLY short and it's 19th century. And longer is early Joseon. Since this is supposed to be a fictional country, etc (not found on any map) and the whole thing is ahistorical on purpose. This explains the mishmash.

- some is simply ahistorical, such as on Mudeok's yellow/orange hanbok--the pleating at the side of the hanbok is 100% ahistorical. Explaining why is a whole chore though (I would have to go into a whole historical thing about geography that would take up way too much word count). So trust me, that Joseon people would have recoiled in horror seeing a detail like that.

Also taking out the 동정 Dong Jeong (paper collar) (boo~~) The paper collar is important. Did they actually use interfacing (double boo). TT Breaks my hanbok-making heart. The reason for the Dong Jeong was because the collar would often get dirty without it and it would add stiffness. Since Korea wasn't rich with cloth (with a large percentage of the richer cloth was historically imported) having a collar like that was important for fabric conservation. (This also explain a section of why pleating at the sides is ahistorical)

Some of the fabric is clearly synthetic (made of plastic) TT But I suppose common watchers won't get that. I mean there is synthetic--like the brocade and Jacquard often used in K-dramas, but then there is ahistorically synthetic *with* shine that's synthetic plastic.

- The mirrors are actual mirrors and not made out of bronze. This is not historically accurate for Joseon.

- The book they have is 100% in hangeul, which isn't possible until much later in history. Even after Sejong (et al) invented Hangeul, pure hangeul texts were rare. Often official texts were in Hanja (or Chinese characters)

-The hairstyle on Mu-Deok is ahistorical as well.

This means it was done on purpose to create “Joseon-eque” fantasy feel.

For those who are saying, BUT THE SPECIAL EFFECTS are like Xian Xia.--you haven't watched many fusion Korean dramas, have you? I also have to point out that often between Japan, Korea and China they share Special effects artists. Sometimes China exports to Korea, sometimes Korea exports to China (depending on political relationships, granted.) But yeah, they share. And also, Hong sisters have watched Chinese dramas, like Chinese have watched Korean dramas. It's part of the whole system of East Asia, if people weren't paying attention. (You can read about it in detail here: http://cup.columbia.edu/book/chinas-hegemony/9780231179744

Though note that the term “Hegemony” is an approximation of the original term.)

Fusion Korean Dramas, BTW: - Arang and the Magistrate--this mixes Mugyo (religion) with imported Chinese religion about the Jade Emperor, which attested is probably around late Goryeo to Early Joseon--honestly in Korean lore not used that much.)

- The Moon that Embraces the Sun- This is an Alt history drama based on a book which uses Mugyo as the center.

- Kingdom is also a Korean fantasy Historical drama

I should note that Scarlet Heart Ryeo was a remake and not loved in Korea that much for that reason. (It’s a remake of Bu Bu Xin, but I should also make clear that China and Japan have also imported and remade Korean dramas) Japan imported not to much success, “You’re Beautiful” (which was from the Hong Sisters. China did a few knock-offs of “Coffee Prince”, but have also officially imported other dramas from Korea.)-- As I said, The East Asian system of cultural trade is still ongoing.

And so on. The Hong sisters themselves also did fantasy and Historical dramas in the past but combined their skills for this one:

- Hong Gil Dong was a historical drama they did, which bordered on Fantasy at times. (Referenced Chinese ghosts, BTW--Hong Sisters like international influences)

- My Girlfriend is a Gumiho

- Hotel Del Luna

- Master’s Sun

Each time they tackled the occult they mainly used Korean native religions. Mago, for example is a native Korean Goddess. And Master’s Sun uses Mugyo.

For this one, they used a kinda of mishmash of various religions. For example, the concepts of souls is very loosely taken from Mugyo. The “Other continent” parallel, is loosely taken from the imported version of the Jade Emperor mythology, etc. It’s a whole fantasy world that’s made up.

Explaining Mugyo is a chore because it’s so complicated, especially on the concept of souls. So you’ll have to trust me on this one. But a portion of the soul swapping is Mugyo in feel.

To be clear, for those who are totally ignorant of Chinese Xianxia, the *majority* of the mythology of Xianxia has a backbone in Taoism. For the entirely ignorant, this is where you get the idea of “Balance” “Yin-yang” etc. And also where the hatred towards women with curly hair, freckles, and dark skin comes from. The second backbone of Xianxia in mythology is Buddhism, which you can see in the usage of monks, prayer beads, often the *objects* in the dramas (such as lotus, etc) and the concepts of reincarnation, demons, levels of hell, etc. The last backbone is the Jade Emperor Mythos, which is natively Chinese. Sometimes, very rarely Xianxia will also include parts of Wu Jiao, which is the native Shamanistic religion, which was forced underground because of suppression and varies, much like other shamanistic religions by region and throughout time. This is sometimes seen in the belief of spirits/evil spirits, etc, and was somewhat supplanted by Taoism later in history, but pure Wu Jiao is a lot more rare in Xianxia dramas.

The last thing you should know is how the martial arts are used in K-dramas (because of the accusation about Wuxia) is different. I know this isn’t very accurate, but a lot of Xianxia and Wuxia tend to defy gravity more, and I tend to think about it more like “Wind”. House of Flying Daggers, for example, exemplifies this a lot. Of course Stephen Chow set in modern times in “Kung Fu Hustle” tends not to have this as much, but Xianxia and Wuxia doesn’t tend to take from him. TT (I don’t get why not).

Korean martial arts tends to be more “gravity bound” so the jumps aren’t as high, there’s more dust thrown around and the element I tend to think of is “Earth”. You can particularly see this in the movie “Arahan” dust flying everywhere and “Superhero landings” (one knee with fist to the ground) as called in the US is something Korean love aesthetically.

I know this is weird, but I tend to think of the element of “Water” for Japanese Martial Arts. “Ice” and “fluidity” and the whole concept of Jo-Ha-Kyu somehow strikes more more like water. The quickness, the Kurosawa pause-sword fall, and how one has to move. (Also much more Earth bound, but the bounding over rooftops is a running affair of invisible legs often like water, whereas China it’s mostly like running and then tons of aerials, rather than parallel jumping.)

Not saying “Superiority” here, but if you pay attention, the martial arts is different in feel and the wire work is different. (in general, not specifically, because ya know, exceptions and parodies, etc)

Mu Deok is using a Jeolla accent. lol My Maternal side is from Jeolla. It's not a very good one, but I think that's the point... (My nitpicks are on the inflection which is terrible and she should be holding the vowels longer on some word)- Short hair for men wasn't possible until late Joseon.

If you want to pick it out: Yuuuu (lower in tone and held) and the Keundi are indications.

The inflection is usually like a rolling hill (with words like Keundi at the bottom of the hill), but the acting of the inflection makes it really flat. (Oddly flatter than Seoulmal... which is why it feels like a put on.)

TT Netflix over translating lines is the bane of my life. I caught two already. They turned a negative statement into a positive. And they took out "pabo" out of one of the translated lines. They messed up a few lines so changed "Why are you using banmal with me" into "Use formal speech (Jeondaemal) with me" doesn't have the same bite. And you might think it doesn't matter, but it does. It does. And I don't care what native Koreans say. It does matter because the meaning shifts significantly. Screw English-speaker’s accessibility, care more about being true to what it means to increase cultural competency and disability access.

If you would like to continue to Episode 2, it is here:

https://www.asian-fiction.com/post/693059732535132160/cultural-notes-for-alchemy-of-souls-episode-2

#Korean dramas #cultural notes #alchemy of Souls

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Cultural Notes for Secret Royal Inspector and Jo Yi Episode 9-10

Cultural Notes for Episode 9 and 10.

Episode 9

- Chilseok marks the Monsoon rains, which is why I kind of find it odd it's not raining... How are the herdboy and weaver supposed to meet in the sky? Where are the crows? China has a version of this too. (And Japan) Koreans kinda Koreaned it up though.

They only have a few days out of the year...

Anyway, it's roughly in August (Lunar Calendar), and the rains not coming would be a huge deal (Yes, yes, they didn't shoot it in August, but the lack of rains...).

- BTW, I like the fact they played against the trope of the lovers trapped in the cave together. lol Kinda subtle, though.

- Also played against the trope of all good omens become true in K-historical dramas. (It's true in folktales, which is why it's often in K-dramas).

- Bae Jong Ok I really like her acting. She has this precision, but not too precise that you don't feel anything from the character.

- Hwarang, was mentioned in the episode. Some Korean historians (unlike the drama) think that they were gay because the former group before them... the Wonhwa were lesbian and said to break up over a fight between lovers. (GL, but the censors... Maybe JTBC will challenge it.)

The writer is daring the censors a little around the edges because unfortunately, the last time writers challenged hard... they were fined. I suppose I should mention that the traveling troupe members are of the same flavor. (It's divided into three. The folk village performances, the traveling troupes and the traveling troupes that eventually became the Gisaeng.) Gisaeng were originally traveling performers probably from a Northern reach, but Korean King forced them into servitude (Kinda long story). The Folk Village performances are as described in this, but some historians also suspect gay activity, which is why there are some in-culture gay jokes inserted. (With the yeot on a stick) And lastly the traveling performers. Most historians rate this as most definitely gay. Lots of reports of gay activity. So the writer is dancing around it by loose references here and there and trying to state homosexuality was there even back to Unified Silla era. (It's not in your face, but kinda obvious at this point they really mean it. Koreans do more writing to the spaces in between.)

I should note the current president of Korea is anti-LGBTQIA in many regards. 'cause he said that Heterosexuality was more "traditional" and therefore lesbian women don't deserve protection. (He was forced to retract his comments) Korean writers can't let that sort of thing go--I mean Heo Jun died for writing Hong Gil Dong. 'cause Koreans love poking at things. It's a long tradition. Like throwing rocks at a general you hate because the war was unpopular.

- They show Qing Soldiers taking away her mother. I believe an earlier post I said distinguished between Korean sentiments about Ming and Qing.

We're looking at around 1636 and probably after 1644. Which would pout it after the death of Crown Prince So Hyeon. I think I'm right. Might be spoilers, but according to Korean history <spoiler>Crown Prince So Hyeon was brought up in China, learned Christianity and then wanted to reform Korea upon his return, but the things he wanted were too drastic for his father, so he was murdered by his father under mysterious circumstances.</spoiler>

#cultural notes #secret royal inspector and joy #korean dramas #K-dramas

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Cultural Notes for Secret Royal Inspector and Jo Yi Episode 7-8

More notes about the show. Episode 7-8

Episode 7

- Touching between men and women after the Imjin War was pretty limited. (Basics of restrict the women because women are at fault for horrible thing that happened to them...) So that's why he's being careful about it. The drama is mocking this a bit.

- Also, Korean socialization has it that you give firm pats to the back of a baby (Harder than US and other countries) to help them burp and also to comfort them. (Hold upright, firm pats to the back at regular intervals) So it's also a slight reference to that. Uri Appa used to do that when I cried as a baby... Note that I've witnessed Chinese parents do something similar, but it's not quite the same hand position... (but I'm being really picky here...)

- Meat was limited in Joseon. Especially cow for the lower classes (which was forbidden for the majority of Joseon--since Cows==plowing and also only the King was allowed to eat one). Not so much Chicken.

- The "Taffy" in Korean is Yeot. But what he made wasn't quite Yeot. Yeot is a vulgar word in modern day Korean, and shouting "Eat Yeot" is an insult... causing trouble through deception. So the fact it's not Yeot like Koreans know it, they are eating it as Yeot and he's a Secret Royal Inspector is so meta.

As one source reads:

"In the later years of the Joseon period (1392-1897), troupes of male entertainers that traveled around the country for both performance and prostitution used the word yeot to refer to female genitalia. And “eat yeot” meant “eat pussy,” or “f*** a woman.” Young, pretty men in such troupes were often associated with homosexuality — as seen in South Korean film “King and the Clown” that features a romantic relationship between the king and a male clown — and an expression urging sex with a woman may have functioned as an insult in their circles." https://koreaexpose.com/yeot-sweet-taffy-nasty-aftertaste/

So yeah... and yes, told you so. It'll address homosexuality. It's circling it. Do you hate the drama yet Anti-gay people? You can go away. It'll triple down on it. LOL The meta joke of putting it on sticks and her asking why put it on sticks... the dirty joke in a sageuk, is another level.

- You probably already know this, but Hanyang is Seoul. The name is still sometimes used in current Korea. I've seen it on documents dating from the 1970's, to give you a clue. Episode 8

- Silver mining (which is true of China's kingdoms, too, I think?) was controlled by the King. So what they are doing is illegal silver mining. Because all gold and silver belonged to the King. Drama doesn't go over this, because it's an old trope in Korean dramas. If it's not salt, then they usually use silver or gold mining. I mean Three Kingdoms (Korea) dramas even occasionally put it in as why the bad guys are bad.

- One plot point I don't understand is why they would bring Bi Ryeong to the secret silver mine... doesn't really make sense if they know she's trouble...

- They marked it in the previous episode, but also in this one that the "Widow"'s identity is questionable given she can read hanja. Also that twisted journey of her coming from Gyeongsang, going to Seoul and ending up in Chungcheong? Still makes me think she's a widow. Goes to Seoul to marry, noble dies in war? She loses everything after the laws are passed, and has to move to Chungcheong? Maybe?

- BTW, I love the beaten up gat in the miner's scene. Such a good touch. If you spot it, you will also appreciate how it highlights the character.

- Koreans started to use gunpowder in the mid 14th century. (So way before this time period). And guns were imported from Ming around the same time.

- mourning hanbok were white (as shown) and usually in old times made out of ramie or cotton (unbleached).

- regular hanbok, of course was made out of silk. the type of fabric in Korean is called "Nobang".

- On Name: Ra Yi Eon:

His grandmother is saying the hanja for his name are probably: 理言 (Meaning Principled words). Yi of the Yi Eon also can mean with different hanja Yi: Benefit, Rejoice/enjoy, and clever. Eon in other hanja can mean boy, beauty, proverb and why.

Not sure about the surname. One means "lazy person" and the other means "lightweight fabric."

(懶)- Lazy Person.

(羅)- Gauze fabric.

Some Chinese might recognize 羅 as the surname of the author of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms: Luó Guànzhōng

I should note in current South Korean names some of the "ra" names turned into "na" names. (Linguistic shift and some other linguistic things I’d have to have forever on.)

It's most likely a pun. I kinda think the surname "Lazy person" fits him better.

- Ah I should note that elders, particularly paternal elders named the children, not the mother and father. The list of Korean naming rules for particular eras on Korean names is long. I mean, if you know Chinese naming rules... it's that + additional rules on top. Sometimes it got so complicated they'd go to monks and other religious figures to try to get a decent name. Covering that would take forever, though I've typed it up elsewhere. But to give you a clue, the paternal side of the elders have to approve of it, particularly the elders on the paternal side, but also the maternal side. If they don't approve of it, the parents are going to have hell with subsequent children. (Ummm... I have a family story about this...) But also things like natal chart, the balance of the natal chart with the elements it has in relation to other siblings, the birth dream, hopes and dreams for their child, how fashionable it is, how the sound balance works, does it fit the family jokbo (which is list of acceptable names per family clan). Do the elemtns balance in the name. (I was said to have lots of fire in my natal chart, for example, and the surname is metal-based, so to balance that they gave a character which has a radical of "Water" in it) And this is only a *Tiny bit of the name rules, which are extensive.

- I have to say, as someone whose taken calligraphy before, the calligraphy on that screen (with him studying), is exquisite. Makes my heart beat faster looking at it. It's so gooooodddd. I want to be that good. (If you have a sharp eye you can spot the Korean Aesthetic.) The green ones are computer generated.

- When he says his brother's life is his, he's referring to that he owns him as a slave, because his mother was a slave, and thus his brother is his inheritance.

- Jokbo is a record of the family and helps legitimize the family in Joseon. They unfortunately were often sold. They also helped with naming, as I mentioned earlier. It's like a family tree given to them by the King when their clan was formed. Most Jokbo, though, even if there are some are Joseon-created. The only legitimate one is of the Lee Royal line, which can be confirmed by DNA... the other ones can be questionable, especially from my clan, the Gimhae Kims...

- Some of the whole slave class thing is taken from the traditional story: Hong Gil Dong.

- Women after the Imjin war were not allowed to participate in bowing in ancestor rites, only men were. They were expected to serve the food, prepare the table and the guests, but were not allowed to participate. That's why the grandmother is not bowing.

- The whole thing about younger gen not wanting to get married, is a contemporary thing and they are making commentary about that in a round about way.

#Korean dramas #secret royal inspector and joy #cultural notes

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Cultural Notes for Secret Inspector Royal Inspector Jo Yi Episodes 1-6

Cultural Notes for Royal Inspector Jo Yi. ‘cause in another place someone got mad at these comments. So protection.

Episode 1

Petitioning for a divorce in Joseon was near to impossible for a woman. Men could do it, but women had a much harder time for the same things. So that part is kinda fictionalized. Short of the man proven to be impotent--which was really hard to prove, women really couldn't petition for a divorce as shown.

But men could do it for a variety of reasons, including she was barren, she scolded too much, etc.

This is why during this time period some women tried to escape their marriages by claiming they had "spirit sickness" and then became mushin... but I kinda think you would if your husband is beating you and you can't escape the marriage even after that.

Episode 2

This isn't something the translators could translate that well...

When she slaps his mouth and calls him "rude" in the subs she's really saying he shouldn't be using "Banmal" which is talking down to someone. In modern dramas, it's usually dropping the "yo" or failing the use the deferential properly to oroshin (elders). "Sumnida" "Sumnikka" type of endings. Joseon strictly speaking had more. In the contemporary era some of those levels of politeness have dropped. (You can hear it with the use of "siyo" in this episode.)

The thing is that the majority of servants were slaves, so were of the Nobi class, which included gisaeng. (Gisaeng were considered just above Butchers. Dirge singers are kinda between the two.) Anyway, being her class, she's a commoner or civilian, so would normally be of higher rank than a Nobi. So a Nobi has to use "jeondaemal" or talk up to her. But since he's a secret Noble, he knows and has habits of using "banmal" to those of commoner class. (He's Yangban, though kinda lower rank Yangban. There is also a middle class, Jungin who rarely show up in Korean dramas. Sometimes they do.)

Also, she's totally playing up the ajumma aspects of her role and doing a fantastic job of it. Though some of her conception of it and so on are kinda modern, but it's not like an idol drama would aim to be 100% historically accurate. They kinda made it clear they are bending the rules a bit to a Korean audience... though most foreigners won't recognize it.

I didn't comment on this in episode 1, but I may as well do it now, the whole shaming fat woman wasn't a thing in Joseon, so it feels out of place here, and I dislike fat shaming in general. This is mostly a contemporary preoccupation and it makes me twitch seeing it in a drama like this. Koreans kinda feel collective responsibility, so I apologize for this part, even if it wasn't directly my fault.

Edit: I found my notes from a History class I took... this might help.

You may not know this, but Korean women's rights didn't fall until the second half of the Joseon dynasty (after the Imjin War). During Goryeo, for example: – Life of Women • Inherit property => considerable independence • Divorce was possible • Remarriage of widows was possible • Not strictly patrilineal =>matrilineal was also important • Uxorilocal: the bridegroom moved into bride’s house, and their children and often even their grand-children were born and raised in the mother’s house • Plural marriage possible? – XuJing(Chinesetraveler,1123) was allowed multiple husbands. • Monogamy was law in most cases. Second wives were not allowed. (PakYu’smemorialtotheKingCh’ungnyŏl (r.1274-1308)suggests marrying commoner women as concubines, but it was rejected.) • Horse riding • Social mingling was allowed. There are also reports of women throwing stones at government officials when they hated their policies without repercussions. After the Imjin War in Joseon, all of this came apart as men were paranoid about the legitimacy of their sons and land became more rare. Neo Confucianism took greater effect. • Women were no longer allowed to remarry after widowhood. • Women could not inherit property. • Women were not allowed to divorce their husbands. • It became strictly patrilineal, and patrilocal. • Women were not allowed in the ancestral rites (though they had to do all of the set up for them.) • Women were not allowed to mingle outside of the house and teaching of certain texts was often forbidden to women. • If a woman was raped, she was shamed and expected to commit suicide. Some of the rights during Goryeo have not returned to contemporary Korean women today. Korean women are still shamed for getting a divorce and they cannot keep the children in most cases. You have to have double consent, except in abandonment cases with divorce. But there were Korean women who also kicked butt in many ways...

Episode 4

The things they are being a tiny bit ahistorical over, they are making commentary on contemporary Korea over, but going over that aspect would take forever, so I'm not doing it. Basically commentary on feminism, ableism, a tiny bit on worker's rights. I don't have enough space to cover all of that... so yeah... ummm... all issues brought up in the drama are commenting on contemporary Korea as well. (though subtly)

Ah, I made a request for a drama set in Chungcheong 'cause that was the last regionality left in South Korea (You can make requests for dramas if you know the websites where Korean writers hang out)--they do have a few people with the dialect in the drama. (Saturi). It's marked by being slower to speak, Koreans make fun of it natively by yawning and looking at their watches. ^^;; (Uh, I should note, it's OK for Koreans to do it... but it's one of those things like you don't shout in a church unless led to... so as an outsider to the culture, it's not OK to do it, insiders, yes.) It's often compared to Southern US speak. The drawl.

I also like that they are showing the non-glorious side of Korea while also making small commentaries on contemporary Korea. Sageuk tend to glorify things in the past, so I kinda like they are also being critical of our history as a way to look at the present and examine it. (When historical fiction does this from any country, I rather like it, even when it jumps away from actual history, as supposed to doing it just because you feel like it or you think the story will be "better".)

I hope my guess about the Prince pays off. They are making references to the Imjin War here, I think. So the time frame is correct. Though the hanbok, if I'm being super picky and it is the 1600's seems to date from later in history? (The jegori is a give away on how high it is and how tight the sleeves are... though commoners, obviously had tighter sleeves for work purposes, etc.) A lot of people think hanbok are the same in Joseon, but it changed a lot over time. I mean Joseon was really long, so of course it changed. I am digging the fact they keep changing her hairstyle to show the different classes of the time, and rankings. (I'm a hanbok geek... so... yeah.)

They dressed her in a yangban style, towards the bottom to match him in rank.

Oh and PDA was and kinda still is considered bad and affection towards spouses, etc is for something you do in your own home. That's why the pressure is high in that scene. I thought the writing on that scene could have been done slightly better. Since I do know cishet women who say they hate their husbands, want them to die, etc, but when the time comes that could get them actual death... they turn around and rescue them. Kinda a little awkward. Probably done on a deadline.

Episode 5

- I like how they play with what is anachronistic and then point it out later...

- BTW, I love the meta joke about guards being late. Something that's frequent in sageuk.

- I hate to break it to you, but as wonderful and great Koreans are (I know, being one) we are not psychic or telepathic, even in Joseon times. If I had mind reading, it might solve a lot of issues...

- The brown jar (very short flash on screen) are called onggi or hangari which are used to pickle/ferment foods. They have very few craftspeople left who make them. They are made out of earthenware and have those saucer lids usually (not shown in the drama). You make them by coiling clay and then beating them into shape so the clay gets thin enough and then creates air exchange.

They are used for soy sauce, kimchi, doenjang storage, etc. The makers boast early and often about how the jar is designed to breathe. They are critical if you want to make Korean soy sauce. Also, allowing gas exchange affects the taste of kimchi allowing for a more even pickling rate. I'm currently using some to ferment some soy sauce, and kimchi.

Their shape varies by latitude. They often show up in Korean dramas around ajumma and halmeoni in the current era. Personally, I think they make superior kimchi.

- The hat he's referring to is called an aisahwa. Usually worn by scholars who rank the highest in exams. Basically, he's boasting he's really smart to her and got first rank for scholars in his class. But she's not that impressed... so that makes a parallel when she boasts back to him and he's not impressed. (A match made?)

- When the father says, "Yasoki" He's again, chasing over politeness levels of speech. Listen for the "nikka" in the correction. The drama is kinda making fun of how other Joseon dramas always have the politeness levels perfect... so I love the meta. The meal thing, BTW, is something Korean parents always say... it's always about how much to eat or not eat, etc.

- The food isn't taffy, per se... it's likely honey (which was precious back in the day), and some nuts and a binder (Likely sweet rice flour (sweet rice is a varietal of rice, not that it has sugar added to it)), and roasted soy bean powder. Maybe a variation on Injeolmi (인절미)and yaksik (약식) It's a kind of ddeok. I have a fondness for ddeok. It's a kind of thing elders give kids.

- BTW, the old India ink was waterproof... I know, because I've tested it before. As long as it completely dries, it should be fine and won't run, especially on mulberry paper.

- Re: the account book. The account book is written in Chinese characters which most commoners and slave class could not read. While Sejong instituted hangeul earlier, it didn't become widespread for the upper classes. And it became a class status thing. In South Korea, hanja--the Chinese characters (which are a mix of traditional Chinese and Korean-made Chinese characters) is still debated over whether they should be taught or not. The older generations tend to know more Chinese characters than the younger. Monks, scholars and other people who critically need to know them still know hanja, so it still marks class a bit.

Episode 6

Bi Ryeong (the woman in red at the beginning)... they are playing with Mudang powers (Musin is the more general term.) She likely has a version of "Spirit sickness" version of Muism. In the North of SK, it's always spirit sickness. In the Southern SK, it's inherited. As I said earlier, the pantheon of Gods shifts based on location, with Jeju the most different from the rest. (Jeju is a closed system, so out of respect, I'm not delineating that one). But all of her sudden flashes, etc is a reference to Muism, which probably means the earlier Gods were Mugyo, when they were talking about superstitions. Koreans tend to feel split about Mugyo, since they were seen as "charlatans" and it tends to flux both on women's rights, how the men feel and the public face Korea wants to the world. For example for the 1980's Olympics, Korea tried to clean up Mugyo rep to the world (according to a scholarly paper I read), but it's precarious, as it is the oldest native religion in Korea, so sometimes national outpouring for nationalism makes it go back up.

But yeah, they are indicating that Bi Ryeong has Mugyo powers. (with accompanying music). The take, here, though, isn't quite making fun of the religion itself, there is kind of a fondness for it in the rep and a kind of pro-woman stance, but making fun of the context surrounding it. I personally think it's done well. Male writers from Korea tend to not look as favorably upon it, as the religion shifted (some say) from shared male and female to female and LGBTQIA protected (Which BTW, is noted by MANY scholars of all backgrounds.)

- BTW, year of the Dog, etc comes from China. Chinese telling of time, etc was used in Joseon. Also some of the astrology synchronized with the religions, like Mugyo and Buddhism. Buddhist Monks tell fortunes every Chinese new Years using astrology charts. (I would know since someone had mine done while they were doing theirs. BTW, didn't come true, but it was fun.) They use birthdate and time. It's kinda been synchronized a bit with European systems (really Greco-Islamic, so West Asian+Europe... but explaining that takes too long), but with an Asian bent to it.

- 1:19 Lower left (flashes on screen for a second) that round cylindrical thing. That's called a 죽부인 (jukbuin) or literal translation: bamboo wife. It's used in summer as a pillow, 'cause it allows air circulation underneath the head, and also for a substitute wife. ;) Also found in China with a similar translation. Used in other regions, such as the Philippines, etc. Still used today. You also see it later, which is obviously inserted as a joke (now you know the name of the object).

- I'll come back to edit a note about traveling performers as noted from a paper I read, 'cause I need the post protected first before I can add it. I got a long bit on it. There's a lot of layers to it and permissions granted. So there is a ton of work.

- I love Jo Hee-Bong's acting, since he plays especially despotic rulers and officials so well. He also tends to play best friend characters, too, but his best acting, to me, are the deranged types. His voice slides all over the place just enough so you feel off center every time.

- The status of concubine's son's was lower than those of the official wives, BTW, and they were automatically considered Jungin class (Below the yangban class) or slaves. So that meant that they were lower social status than their brothers. Social status was reckoned based on the status of women, especially after the Imjin War. Class rankings also determined profession and inheritance.

- Her surname was Mi and her given name was Anhae. Mianhae means sorry. It's a lame pun. But Jo Hee Bong delivers it so well. I still love his acting. I've seen interviews with him and he's so introverted, kind and polite, it's quite a split between what he plays and how his personality actually is.

- Chungcheong saturi is said by Seouljin to be really slow. Gyeongsang Saturi is said to be "gangster" and is marked by a dip in intonation, then a huge spike. Jeollado tends to have this rollercoaster sound to it with endings like "di" "Keundi" (That's at the bottom of the rollercoaster) is a large marker for Jeolla. Jeju is said sometimes to be its own language and is protected by Unesco (hasn't shown up yet) Gangwon, by Seoulites is said to be "Stuck up" lol. Gangwon saturi hasn't shown up yet.

Round 2 internal politics:

Gyeonggido (Where Seoul is) tends to see people from Gyeongsang as "gangster", "funny" (since a lot of comedians come from there), and "real country." Also some animosity and competition (friendly) Think of the rivalries between Osaka and Tokyo, for those who are familiar, or Shanghai and Beijing, or NYC, and LA, that sort of thing.

Gyeongsang thinks that Jeolla is the "real country" (which to be fair, it is the breadbasket of the Korean peninsula and well sought after land in Korean history.) And therefore backwards. lol Chungcheong doesn't figure in the minds of them that much. Jeolla likewise kinda has an animosity (friendly) towards Gyeongsang, which dates kinda back to the Three Kingdoms. (Koreans can hold grudges... lol BTW, only a thing Koreans can say...)

And Jeju to Gyeongsang is like a foreign country (even if it's right off the shores.) BTW, my relatives are from Jeolla and Gyeongsang... so... I'm kinda making fun of them a little as an insider.

Gangwon (from what I understand) thinks that Gyeonggido is full of it and thinks that Seoulites are the rich ones. What are they talking about they are rich, etc?

And Jeju pretty much minds its own business and does its own thing.

Chungcheong from what I get kinda doesn't get why Gyeonggido looks down on them.

For outsiders, the province system is somewhere between the extremes of India (as I was told by an Indian) and the US state system. Each province has its pride, but it's kinda hilarious if you take a step back because of the imagined rivalries.

Seoul saturi is slightly different from Gyeonggido, but it's too labor intensive to go over that.

- I continue to enjoy how they take down how Joseon wasn't an idealistic place that many people wish to clean up in post. They keep jabbing at it through pointed out anachronisms and pointing it out. Historically, Koreans, especially after the Japanese occupation (both North and South) tended to idealize Joseon as an ideal. (especially North Korea). A time to return to, but tend to gloss over several critical factors. So it's refreshing that they are flying in the face of that and pointing out how it wasn't always ideal, but that there were good and bad points about it and in a "Among the people" kind of way, rather than only Kings and Queens, and "What about the Yangban" manner.

#Kdrama #Korean dramas #cultural notes #secret royal inspector and joy

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asian-fiction · 4 years

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The Moon Brightens For You (明月曾照江东寒)

Episode Count: 36

Runtime: 45

Production values: Medium, sometimes Medium low.

Dubbed: Yes, I'm not sure if it's their own voices, but if it isn't they got very close sound alikes.

Ending Type: Happy? The beginning and end OST indicate happy--there isn't enough tone work for it to go south yet. I'll revise If I'm wrong.

Summary:

Qinghong wants to be master of the Martial arts world (though this isn't exactly explicitly stated) when she hears about the rumors about Lin Fang being unbelievably gorgeous, she checks him out, goes, meh, and falls for a martial arts master. Meantime, Lin Fang, though, without martial arts because of poisoning aims to be at the top and uses his brains, rather than brawn to get there, but finds himself falling for Qinghong.

Male Lead is like Tea boy. For Alan Lu, he's like Tea Boy upgraded from his other tea boy roles since he's far more scheming in this one and also far more love poisoned. (You find this out rapidly, so it's not a spoiler). Feminism Tests:

Bechdel: Passes.

Mako Mori: Passes

Sexy Lamp Tests: Makes a decision: Yes

that changes events: Yes

that changes the mind of other characters: Yes

Faces consequences: Yes

Rescues herself: A fair amount, but still has male intervention.

Wait... that was the maid...

The maid has more agency than the female lead. The female lead tends to make less decisions. And her decisions don't change events that often. She does rescue herself and faces consequences of her actions, but she tends to get usurped by the other characters, which can be frustrating for some people, because she gets swept up in other people's decisions, including her own maid... which doesn't sit well with me, personally, but yeah...

Production Values:

The music is decent, I think. The sound effects I think are well done. The costumes I wouldn't give full marks, but it's passable. The lighting--sometimes I want improvements in filters and lenses and some of the shots are a bit clumsy. The acting is on point for what they are given--no lie, Alan Lu surprised me a few times. The props aren't notable, but still thought out. The writing has sticking points for me, like uneven tone, I have this irking feeling of a male scriptwriter trying to improve the original story, but not having quite the command of writing yet. It needs tightening in places to make the events and characters connect a bit better.

Why Would you Watch this?

You have an undying crush on suffering tea boys. You like the lead actors well enough to watch. You like the idea of the female lead for more than half the drama NOT falling for the tea boy.

You'll hate this if you don't like slow stories, stories of revenge, coming of age stories, and demand perfect writing. You'll also hate this if you want romance thrills and highs--there aren't that many. It's more like the seasoning, not the meal.

This is more like a slow boil stew you have on the backburner that you're familiar with because you've had something like it before, and you know it's not really the thing you want to eat now, but you don't want to exactly waste it either.

#Chinese Drama #2020 #historical #romance #revenge #wuxia #comedy

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asian-fiction · 4 years

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How Subbing Works & Problems

A lot of people think subs are owed to them automatically on dramas, but have no clue on how subbing works or what is involved in making a translation good, so often think the “right” thing to do is to ask for it to be subbed “faster” not realizing how demoralizing that can be for the people on the other side. So this is a quick way to look at the process, the problems that might rise with the process and overall, not be an ass when asking for subs by realizing the subbers are, yes, human.

I’ve done subbing of various kinds before.

Process

There are 4 basic parts to subbing with different levels of difficulty and some of this process is given to people and some of it is not. This can speed up or slow down the subbing process overall.

Timing

Timing says where to put the subs. Sometimes this is done first, for example, Chinese subs, when they are translated on VIKI by sound, or sometimes it’s predone because the episode was soft subbed for the Deaf community in another language. (Japanese drama translations sometimes work like this, sometimes don’t). One doesn’t technically need to know the language to do timing, though it helps to clean up the timing a bit. Timing, as in hand timing a drama takes about a day to do in someone’s free time. It speeds up subs considerably when the subs are pretimed for the person in question, but the subbers don’t always get the timing of the subs beforehand.

Translation

I’ll cover this more later, but a difficult process that may takes a ton of time and is a different skill than being bilingual.

Editing of said translation into target language

The translation, then has to be edited by people who know the target language. it’s often much better if the person who is editing also knows at least a bit of the language and can edit towards the translation. They report the time stamp and the problem. Sometimes it’s a process of smoothing out the translation so it sounds more natural in the target language.

Quality Check

This is when the people put together the subs with the episode and make sure there are no missing subs. Make sure there are no grammar errors. And check for last minute mistakes. Sometimes, though QC’s renig on actually checking the subs as requested, and don’t communicate back, in which case they are leeches in the process. This can slow the process down if they don’t come back.

Coordinator

There is usually a coordinator on the project to make sure it runs smoothly and to do final checks. Occasionally chases translators and settles disputes. One and two person subbing teams don’t have this, so it’s an optional position.

Soft v. Hard Subs

Hard subs are “burned” into the image. Soft subs are subs you can turn on and off. Soft Subs Pros The reason some people soft sub is because the blind community and deaf communities might need the soft subs to explain actions and sounds in between. They are also easier to post because they don’t take an extra step.

Cons People regularly steal subs and take credit for people’s hard work. This is distressing for a lot of subbers which is why they often don’t choose to soft sub. (If you add in the stress of translating in the first place you can see why they hate this.) People cannot download the subs if attached differently to a video.

Hard Subs

Pros Hard subs, because they are quality checked by the original subbers when released, usually have better timing. Sometimes they don’t because they were orginally stolen and soft subbed and also protected. One can download the video and subs, but this also might mean the video is spread to places that the person does not want it to be spread. Say corporate executives.

Cons The blind and deaf communities won’t be able to play with the subs in order to hear the action/sounds they can’t see/hear. Also, sometimes when doing hard subs, other factors might shift, such as sound and/or image quality because they need to be burned into the image. This might take up to a day to do depending on the CPU, but is pretty mindless. For older computers it might slow down the entire computer into not functioning. If the timing is wrong, then it might take another day to correct and make hard subs, which is a pain.

Why do people sub?

Sometimes people like to do it because it’s a way to test out their language skills. Also some people like the idea of the challenge and beating out other subbers at their game.

The majority of subbers are not paid, except through the official channels.

Why can’t we use Google Translate?

1. Google translate subs suck.

2. Language is more than what is spoken, but is also about what is unspoken. Sometimes language that is unspoken, needs to be spoken in another language. (Say the dropping of pronouns) and so one needs those words for the translation to be smooth and make sense. Sometimes Google doesn’t recognize people’s names as being legitimately names, but humans can.

This means a HUMAN needs to do the subs.

Why is Translation difficult?

But--But They are Bilingual

Translation and being bilingual are different skills. Translation is making choices on how to say things you know differently, but being bilingual means speaking in different languages. While being bilingual helps a bit with translation--knowing both languages well, it doesn’t always mean translating is for all bilingual speakers. There are some people who are better at translating than there are sometimes people who are bilingual. Translation is a skill of being able to hold both languages in your head and compare them. Being bilingual is not. It’s code switching in and out of the language. Some bilingual speakers are terrible at translating because they can’t hold both languages in their head at once.

Literal v. figurative translation

Literal translation is not taking word order any figurative meanings, no connotation into account and trying to translate the text directly, as is.

Figurative translation is trying to nail the concepts, the intended meaning, and the indications down.

These have negatives and positives to them. Too figurative and things can get over translated, for example, translating a “nikuman” as a doughnut instead of a meat-filled bun or just leaving it as is.

Too literal, and parts of the meaning are lost to the target audience. Most translators (save for Korea which tends to over translate to protect the language) tend towards more literal translations with some of the language quirks of the original language to give the feel of the language, rhythm, and connotations itself.

To navigate this, as said, you need a human.

Double translation issues

Languages can have relationships to each other through interaction over time, so may have similar concepts that can translate more easily.

But languages that have had little to no contact may have issues in translation. So often the first translation is better than a secondary translation. For example, Going Korean-->English-->Japanese means more translation errors and quirks than Korean-->Japanese, because Koreans and Japanese have a similar grammar structure, similar concepts, similar words they borrowed from China, thus are easier to translate to each other. So it’s easier to spot errors and double translation. Something will be lost when Korean is double translated.

English-->Chinese-->Tagalog is three language group jumps. These languages have had less contact with each other over time and more translation errors will occur. (Yes, I know about Taglish and previous Chinese invasions.)

But, but don’t they have the script?

Sometimes objects on screen also need to be translated, like phone messages, signs, etc. Also, sometimes the script may change once it’s on screen and therefore the meaning shifts as the actor plays it out, which also means that the translators need an hour or two to watch the episode and fuss and debate about how to translate certain pernicious aspects of it.

And sometimes people don’t get the script because they are fan subbers.

Historical and Specialized translation problems.

Do you speak like Shakespeare? Do you understand the Cantebury tales? Can you name all of the parts of a car? A sewing machine? How to make rocket fuel. OK, imagine you are encountering this in another language, how fast can you translate those words you never heard before into English? You’d have to look them up. This slows things down.

Imja, in Korean, for a subbing team I worked with was unfuckably untranslatable in ways the subbing team couldn’t deal with because it was a historical use, it was a pet name, and the meaning shifted during the show which made the translators give up.

The untranslatable, hair pulling moments.

Top one is poetry--poetry demands rigor on rhythm, rhyme, meaning in ways regular speech doesn’t. This is the top one to make people want to pull their hair.

Second is when writers maximize a word that has multiple meanings, but doesn’t map 1 to 1 in another language. (Example is given later)

Third is when there are concepts that can’t quite be translated because you need a paragraph to explain the concept. Jeong. Nunchi are examples from Korean.

Fourth are the idioms--yes there are idioms that map 1 to 1 though the concepts are the same, the words are different and then the translator has to make a choice between three things, translate the idiom as is, and make the viewer work out the meaning, substitute a like idiom, or just translate the meaning of the idiom. But that’s a choice, again, a human makes. There are times, also when the idiom has no mapable translation and is highly connected to the culture... say like the Korean saying, “A shrimp caught between two whales.” (Kinda easy to work out) or “Even in 10 years the Mountains and rivers change.” (which is a bit harder to work out, but doable.) And sometimes there is no way you can translate it. (Most translators break for the Buddhist greeting and quit and just type of the romanization.)

Why are subs so slow?

The subbers got sick, or some of them got sick. (Also one of them died or quit).

Because subbers are not machines. They are human. And humans need things like food, sleep, money. Humans do things like die, grieve, get sick, have emotional problems (especially when people do things like quit the subbing team after getting death threats)

They need cushion time to view all of the episodes or have enough episodes out to translate correctly.

Because language is not 1 for 1 where one word means exactly the same thing in another language, sometimes there is a better word in say episode 10 and you are at episode 1 and you need to see episode 10, otherwise you will have ruined yourself. I’ve seen this a few times where people thought the word meant one thing, but when the context was drawn out by the scriptwriter and it was visualized, they had to shift the word, which is confusing for the audience, who will then complain.

Example: 心/こころ/마음 all map 1 to 1 because it’s a similar concept and the languages, while not related, did have contact regularly with each other. Korean and Japanese both acknowledge Chinese influence on their languages. So when the words are used, it’s easy to translate from and to those languages. But ENGLISH. Different. “Heart” used to mean “mind and feelings” but then came the enlightenment and then the meaning split. This causes issues in subbing, because sometimes the word is used in that writerly way to mean both, but it doesn’t look smooth to use “Mind and heart” or “feelings” and all array of things. If episode 10, distinguishes and it was vague for episode 1-9 what it means by Maeum... then the work done on episodes 1-9 look like a joke. This is why live subbers should get extra complements. Live subbing is hard because the show might back stab them later on.

The translators quit because they didn’t like the show and got no interest/thank yous.

They are doing this for free and are human, you know. Also people stealing subs is a good way to demoralize a person. Having your intellectual property you were doing for fun and as an art stolen, does not feel good. Do not harass subbers who are giving it to you for free.

But, but Korean subs are done faster....

Most likely done on VIKI which uses crowd sourcing to translate quicker. (Also a platform where people don’t often say thank you.)

But, but subs are missing. WHY DID THEY RELEASE THEM NOW?

Most likely subbed on VIKI and you couldn’t wait for it to say 99% or 100%. That’s your own damned fault for not paying attention to the bar at the top. That said the subs were not complete. If you can’t resist clicking despite knowing they aren’t done, see a therapist, don’t complain to the subbers. Some people like watching partial episodes to test their language skills, so if you can’t resist clicking, do something else, but don’t complain.

WHY IS THIS EPISODE RAAAWWWWW?

Because not everyone speaks/reads the language you do. (dumbass) Stop being language centric. Sometimes they want to view the episodes on schedule and not wait for 10 different languages of subs to come out for it. And that’s their right as a non-[fill in your language] speaker. Also see the “needs cushion time” statement.

Why is asking for subs and demanding subs and demanding faster subs rude?

Imagine it this way... you are working at a corporation, and your boss comes up to you and tells you, “You know what? You owe me this faster, better, now.”

And he’s paying you shit. Dirt nothing. You barely can even square your bills away. You approached this job, because you thought it would be fun. You hoped it would change your life in some way. But now he’s telling you “Faster, NOW. Why AREN’T YOU DONE YET?” And he does this every day, fills your inbox, comes around and tells you, sometimes yells at you, gives you death threats over it. How would you feel? Demoralized, like you are insufficient and the thing that you thought might be fun is far less so.

Let’s flip that. You approach a job you love, and you get complements on how well you are doing, you are paid decently and given a decent amount of time to complete the tasks. (Even if the person is doing it as a hobby and aren’t getting officially paid, this works) You are told, “Good job!” “You’re doing great.” And maybe one specific criticism here or there you can fix. How do you feel?

It’s basic EQ. Use your Emotional intelligence and understand that the person is doing it in their free time most of the time and even professional teams need time in order to work, but as long as thousands of people keep saying how horrible they are, how terrible the subs are, how much they hate it being slow without being specific or willing to help... how do you think it emotionally impacts the subbing team? The subs will be done in time, but the longer and the more you treat HUMANS with derision, then the more likely they will feel demoralized and quit because no one is showing they care about them beyond what they can give them.

Why am I not owed subs on content I didn’t pay for?

Because you didn’t pay for it. Since it’s not their full-time job, and they are giving the content for free, and you aren’t paying for it, you have no right to tell the subber, “Faster”, “better” If you want the subs to be faster/better, then either put out or shut up. You can donate money, if they are asking for it. You can do timing. You can do quality checks. You can ask if they need help. Or tailor a letter to them thanking them for their hard work and how you understand how hard subbing is and can be.

Finally: THANK YOUR SUBBERS! It’s the least you can do.

#subs #subbing #translation #dramas

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