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yeniayofnymeria · 1 year

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Theory: The End of A Stark "Will Sansa Die?"

Hi, Selam!

This week I would like to revisit a theory that I read years ago, but I have to say that I have rewritten it with my own additions and ideas. I want to say at the beginning what I'll say at the end, to be honest, for years I've had a 50% chance that Sansa will live or die at the end of the story, but I'm a little bit more on the possibility of her dying, but I have to say that it's still not a definite idea, I'm still not very sure.

Here I will not only discuss Sansa's possible signs of death, but also include some ideas between the lines on how her story might progress.

(It's going to be a bit of a long post and I hope my bad grammar doesn't kill your enjoyment of reading.)

As you know very well, none of the characters are safe, except for one person at least. For this reason, we approach almost every character, be it the main character or the lead, with the possibility that they might die.

While characters have their own missions in the story, the writers also impose other missions on them, and the two missions can be completely opposite as well as compatible. For example, even if character x sees himself as the savior of the story, the author can turn him into the villain of the story. People like Martin place hints about missions and story development in the text from the very beginning, and if we pay close attention we can see them, but sometimes we don't fully understand the purpose of the characters' existence. For example, I still can't figure out why Val exists. I think it's easier to predict the protagonists, after all, they are the main focus of the author, they are the characters that drive/shape the story.

Sansa is one of the main characters, like Cersei and Jaime, and there is no doubt that, like every character, the author has a mission for her. We're not going to discuss that here because that's not our topic, but the meaning that is attributed to her can affect the ending of the story.

In my opinion, the author has not yet used Sansa for her purpose. Yes, she served as Arya's foil at the beginning of the story, but I don't think her part in what happened between Ned and the Lannists is her raison d'etre, at least not her sole raison d'etre. Most fans think that she is the one who will turn into a player for the throne and make up for the Starks' lack of intrigue; some readers don't attach any special meaning to her; or some - like me - think that she will be partly involved in a game for the throne, but against Jon, to his detriment. It's impossible to know which of these three ideas will turn out to be exactly right without reading it, but some uncertainty about the character's purpose in the story creates a similar uncertainty about her possible ending, at least for me.

I'm thinking of two possible scenarios.

The first one is that, like when we start the book, she takes some actions against her family, which in this case it's Jon and Arya, but in the end she realizes what she did wrong, corrects herself and helps destroy the family enemy, which would be Littlefinger. That's a bit of a classic character development, so I'm actually leaning a bit towards that idea, especially with the prophecy of killing the giant that we think is Littlefinger.

In these scenarios, there are usually two possibilities; (1) the character survives and finds her own happiness by turning into a figure who supports her family until the end, or (2) she sacrifices herself for the sake of protecting her family / righting the wrong she has done(There are readers who think that because the Lady died instead of Nymeria, Sansa will sacrifice herself for Arya).

In the second scenario, she becomes the villain within the family and continues to reinforce her betrayal and is eventually executed within the family. Of course, the adjective "villain" here does not mean turning into a devilish temptress. For example, the desire to protect the inheritance rights of her brothers (against Jon) with good intentions and to elevate / secure her own position in return for all that she has suffered is quite possible and I think it would be a reasonable desire. Although I already think that she will act in this or a similar way, as I just said, she is more inclined to the possibility of correcting herself, but if she does not, "death" would be inevitable for such a figure. The person I got the theory from already thinks that Sansa will die by Arya's hand.

For this reason, we can approach the theory with two separate questions: Will Sansa die and if so, how/by whom?

First, let's look for an answer to the question "Will Sansa die, or rather, are there signs that she might die?". The short answer to this question is "yes". As we have already said, no character seems to be safe, so it will be possible to find at least one sign that could point to death for almost every lead and main character.

So, what are these signs for Sansa? Let's take them one by one.

Death Signs / Arguments

1- Our first sign is RED ROSE and SWEET SMELL.

When the characters smell sweet from someone or something, it is considered to be danger bells. Of course, we do not claim that they will die 100%, they may be there as a sign that they will face death and return from death, but if they have received more than one sign, it may be difficult to say that they will simply fall into a coma.

The red rose that Loras Tyrell gave Sansa at the tournament in the first book is remarkable. While he gave white roses to everyone else, he gave her a red rose, which Loras didn't even remember. It was probably a political gesture to honor his father for being the daughter of the Hand, which he did at Renly's direction in the show.

While white roses are usually associated with purity, innocence and cherishing, red roses are the most remarkable and most acceptable of all types of roses because they express love and passion. It is for this reason that it is the most valuable, at least spiritually, which is why Loras gives a red rose, but if we look at the author's intention, the fact that a sweet scent emanates from this rose can be interpreted as a sign that Sansa may die for the sake of love/love, considering the importance she attaches to love. Now let's elaborate on this scenario.

When we think of love, we usually think of romantic feelings between a man and a woman; if you remember the SanSan theory, Sansa's emotional bond with Sandor may be a path that leads to their deaths in the future. Almost everyone thinks Sandor will die in his fight with his brother, probably very few think he will survive. The part that interests me is the idea of how this will happen.

I have actually opened two threads for this in the past. Bran's coma dream, which refers to Sandor's fight with Jaime against his brother, and Sandor's motivation. If you haven't read it or forgotten the details, I recommend you to read it again.

Roughly summarized... So in the fight of the three shadows that we saw in Bran's coma dream, Sandor's motivation to fight his brother the Mountain could be to protect Sansa. Sandor will probably die protecting Sansa at the end of this fight.

Alternative Interpretation of the Rose Sign

Apart from the love for Sansa and Sandor, the red rose reference can also be interpreted as "love for family". After all, what we call love is not a uniform thing. Usually, when we buy roses for our mothers, we prefer red roses. This could fit the scenario that Sansa comes to her senses and dies trying to protect her family. Of course, I am closer to the love interpretation, but I think this is a possible scenario.

The Red Rose is the strongest death argument for Sansa. The ones after that can be considered equivalent or relatively less strong.

2- Let's continue with Lady The Direwolf.

Everyone knows that wolves symbolize their owners and are a sign of their fate. The Lady, like her owner, is a graceful and calm animal, but she is killed because of Cersei's hatred of wolves. Some interpret Sansa's naming of the wolf and its untimely death as a sign of two things. The first is that a character who was expected to be queen in the first book (because of her betrothal to Joffrey) will remain a lady forever , and the second is that Sansa will die with the early death of her wolf.

While I agree with forever lady interpretation, but I can't claim that I see the wolf's death as a sign that Sansa should also die, at least not directly. Yes, I'm not ruling it out as a possibility, maybe it is indeed a sign, but there is a more weighty view(for some people), which I'm a little closer to.

Wolves symbolize Stark children and their Stark identity. They are also the key to triggering the warg abilities. We know that Sansa is a warg, but it's a dormant ability that never triggers because her wolf died. Whereas all her other siblings have their wolves and their warg abilities have awakened.

So what does this detail mean for Sansa? Why is Sansa the only one of all the children who is deprived of this?

Well, like Nymeria, the Lady could have been kept alive somehow, but the author did not choose to do so. For some view is that Sansa is no longer a Stark as an "identity", that this aspect is dead. Don't get me wrong, of course she is still her father's daughter and a member of the family. We are talking about her spiritual Stark identity. If you remember, after letter she sent to her family, when Robb reacted angrily and asked what was wrong with this girl, Bran's answer was "her wolf is dead". It's a rather meaningless thought when you look at what's going on, but I think the writer is sending a signal here that Sansa's spiritual bond with the north and with the Starks has been severed.

In 2001, we see an interesting dialogue between the fans and Martin (actually, I remember there was something similar, but I couldn't find the source).

Well, 20-odd years later this information is still there, so I'm proceeding from the conclusion that it hasn't been refuted. And this is parallel to what I'm about to explain.

So, what exactly does Martin mean by that?

Now Sansa is disguised as Aleyna in the Vale and keep her role of father and daughter, as if performing a theatre with Littlefinger. No doubt she still remembers Sansa in her mind(even she is Sansa), but at LF's request, they continue to play father-daughter roles even when they are alone(it's important detail).

However, if you pay attention, there are changes in the names of the characters starting from the 4th book, this is a detail that Martin later thought of and added. The POV name is written in this way if the character feels himself as what or who he is at that moment.

In an interview in 2006, Martin explained that pov names are a sign of how the characters, but especially Sansa, think of themselves, and even in 2008, when asked if the Hound and Sansa will get together, He says: “Why? The Hound is dead and Sansa may be dead too, there is only Aleyne Stone.”

What is meant by death here, of course, is not bodily, but as a "spiritual-identity". There is a nice theory that the Hound is not essentially dead, but that the Hound within is dead. We've probably seen him in Brienne povs anyway... The author (seems) has made a statement that the same identity-spiritual death is also for Sansa. In later years, he explained the changes in these pov names of the characters as "identities are under attack." As a matter of fact, although we talking about Sansa, the identities of many characters such as Arya and Theon are also under attack. It looks like Theon has finally found himself, as we look at Mercy POV, we know Arya's holding onto her identity thanks to Needle and Nymeria, but Sansa?

She has neither a wolf nor an anchor like Needle to connect her to her identity.

Martin said the imaginary kiss was intentional and hinted at something; He explains by pointing to Sansa's psychology. When we first met Sansa, we saw that she told a little lie and we didn't dwell on it, we said we all tell little lies like that, but then the lies started to get bigger and more serious. Worse still, Sansa lies to herself the most, which is made most obvious by the imaginary kiss. Lying is one of the most striking situations in Sansa's story. She lies so often now that she begins to remember events that way (something we actually saw in the first book with the Mycah issue).

Considering Martin's emphasis on Sansa's psychology and Aleyna identity, in addition to the reason for the changes in pov names, Sansa will probably begin to consider herself as Aleyna in the future. It looks like Sansa will lose her identity while the readers wait for Arya. Of course, to me, this loss of identity will not be like the Faceless Men. Sansa will be well aware of herself, but she will see herself as Petry Baelish's bastard daughter Aleyna Stone; As we are used to seeing in spy movies, we can expect to see in Sansa the character starts to integrate with the identity she is acting after playing long enough.

In fact, this situation can be seen from time to time in actors who show method acting, they cannot get out of the role and their behaviors change because the point of this technique is not to portray the character, but to live. Like a method actress, Sansa does not portray the character of Aleyna, she is officially live it. You can easily observe this between the lines. Remember the scenes where Theon goes back and forth between The Reek and Theon. This shows that she will not be able to get rid of the LF effect for a long time, which is one of the reasons why I think she will act against Jon, because she is under the LF effect.

To summarize this matter, the death of Sansa's wolf is a sign for her breaking of her ties with Stark and the north, her distance from being a Stark spiritually and her slowly starting to assume the identity of Aleyna Stone. This, in the LF effect, makes her a pawn to be used against the Starks. If Sansa cannot find her identity again at the end of the story, I don't see it possible for such a person to live, she will definitely die at the end of the story.

3- Another argument, Blood Oranges

Actually, this is a bit sweet and death theory thing . Blood Oranges are death symbols that symbolize murder in the series. It caught our attention mainly in the Doran Martell scenes; Hotah was talking about the sweet smell of overripe and falling blood oranges, which, as you can see, also has a sweet side. Another notable example is the phrase "whatever you do, keep your hands clean" in the scene where LF squeezes and drinks a blood orange while LF's with Sansa, where they're talking about Joffrey's murder. Of course, these two are not the only examples, but the example that interests us is in the first book, between Arya and Sansa...

...the two sisters were talking about the Mycah murder at a time they were arguing at dinner and Sansa was lying again, Arya said "liar", squeezing the blood orange in anger, then she throws it to Sansa. The orange falls first on her head and then on her lap, staining her dress. Sansa's fear of Illyn Payne from the first moment she saw it; When we think about things such as having terrible dreams/fears that her head will be cut off, does the blood orange that hit her head indicate that she will be the victim of such a murder? Moreover, the orange falls into her lap, which is actually where her private area is; When she took off the dress, she was having a fit of crying, seeing that it was also covered in her underwear. Here Martin may have signaled that Sansa will be killed, there seems to be strong symbolism, especially when we combine it with the red rose scene.

The fact that her white silk dress was dyed a dark color (I think it was black) because it was stained shows that her innocence has been lost. Even if that's not his intention, the fact that she's poisoning Sweet Robin is a sign, or that she blames the singer for Lysa's murder. No doubt we have reason to justify this latest incident, but there may come times when we can no longer justify it, when Sansa can do things we can't justify.

4- For now, let's briefly touch on Sansa's dreams as the last argument.

Contrary to what we are used to, Sansa's dreams appear as psychological dreams triggered by her trauma. This shows that they have a lot of violence, of course, there are some that are not, some of them include longing for home and family. Sansa often dreams of Payne and is afraid of dying. She had seen the rebellion in a dream and had been struck with a sword in the stomach. Although it is a weak approach, the fact that dreams are so violent and bad, but especially the Payne detail, may be a reference that Sansa's fear of death can become reality.

I have theory about "Tully Women Mental Health."

Even though they have a strong psychology image at the first stage, after a point, the last generation Tully women are like iron like Stannis, but they have a mind structure that is so sensitive that they break before they bend over. I thought that Sansa had her share of it because she looked like her mother in everything. When you combine it with what I have told you so far, it may be possible to predict that Sansa has a very sensitive psychology and will experience a breaking moment in the future.

Further of the death marks and the Possible Sandor Scenario, could Arya have an interior in Sansa's death or murder?

While I don't think Martin would get Arya to kill her sister or anyone in the family, I can't dismiss the possibility because the conflict between the two sisters is not to be overlooked. From the very beginning, Sansa was created to be Arya's foil. Foil characters are those in which the meaning of existence is opposite. Martin wrote Sansa because he didn't think everyone got along well in a family. So the "conflict" between siblings is Sansa's main purpose of existence.

As a matter of fact, the Sansa'a arc, which I expect to come to the fore in the story, will be exactly in this direction; The escalation of her conflict with Arya...

The development of tension between the sisters...

We already know Sansa in the first Arya POV, and as the contrasts between these two are revealed right before us, a small and simple sibling conflict is staged. After that, the two sisters have more conflicts with each other during their time together and they are getting bigger every day, but then the Ned case happens and the sisters separate. It has gone beyond being a simple sibling quarrel between them, but we cannot claim that it is an irreversible situation that still crosses the threshold; at least until Arya finds out that Sansa has said her father's plan to Cersei. Even then, the threshold may not have been fully crossed, but if Sansa, as Aleyna, starts making moves against Jon by advancing under the influence of Littlefinger, as I believe she will, then the threshold will be crossed for Arya.

After all, Jon's appearance as a surprise egg is definitely an obstacle to LF's goals, and he must eliminate Jon to realize his thoughts about the north. The most useful tool for this is Sansa herself. We can read a triple attack as I believe LSH will come and join this duo, but LF will stay behind to keep his hands clean as per his life philosophy.

It becomes much more meaningful at this stage that Arya is equipped with abilities that she can use in Game of Thrones, such as understanding lies and learning to gather information... etc. In any case, the point of "understand a lie" becomes more meaningful when you think of Sansa and LF, who are constantly lying and are used to telling, and it becomes a more important skill. Of course, we should not forget the likes of Varys and Illyrio. So it looks like the author chose Arya, not Sansa, to make up for the Starks' lack of intrigue. I mentioned and explained these abilities in a old thread of mine and I even mentioned that the Kind Man teaches Arya of mother languages of Dany, Illyrio, and Varys besides Braavos.

But yes, Sansa will also get involved in intrigue/game of thrones as LF's student, but she will use it against Jon. This will bring the conflict between Arya and Sansa to the peak.

We read that Sandor said that when he looked at Arya in one scene, he said he thinks Arya want to kill Sansa; It's also worth remembering that Arya said "I don't hate her" while Ned admonished her not to stab Needle into her sister, saying "that was just half a lie". Of course, these may be red herrings, but the possibility of not being must be considered. This might be a reference, as it was Arya who threw the blood orange at Sansa.

These are my opinions in general, what do you think about it? Will Sansa die, and if she does, how?

TLDR: There are several signs that could indicate Sansa's death. These are the sweet fragrance of the red rose; blood orange scenes, killing/injuring in her nightmares are a few of them. In addition, the death of Lady may indicate that she dies at the end of the story as a result of her breaking away from her Stark identity, and it may also be a sign that Sansa begins to see herself as Aleyna Stone over time and enters into a game of throne against Jon and Arya under the control of LF. As the tension between Arya and Sansa grows, in addition to the possibility of Arya having a share in Sansa's death, there may also be a possibility that Sansa will die here by taking part in the Sandor and Mountain fight.Of course, you have to read the articles in detail for them to make sense.

Thank you.

#asoiaf #jonrya #jonarya #game of thrones #grrmartin #writers #television #books #sansa #sansa stark #death of sansa #arya #arya stark #sandor #sandor the hound clegane #a song of ice and fire #theory #asoiaf theory

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yeniayofnymeria · 1 year

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I have made the asoiaf character pov chart, ranked from most to least, info taken from A Wiki of Ice and Fire.

I have counted the The Winds of Winter Chapters in the total sum, because they were counted in the Wiki as well. Though that would have changed the TOP 5 in the sense that Sansa would have 24 chapters instead of 25, so Catelyn would overtake her.

I really didn't think Tyrion would have the most chapters, that's 7 more than the second place! What's also really interesting to me is: how only 4 characters have had more than 30 chapters and how Arya was the only character to have a POV in every book that's been released.

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yeniayofnymeria · 2 years

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Day 17: Arya’s relationship with Trauma

There are misconceptions that Arya is emotionless, cold hearted, and just a killer. That is not true at all. If you analyze her chapters, Arya is actually one of the most emotional and vulnerable characters in the whole series. Arya suffers from self loathing and low self esteem and a lot of it is thanks to Sansa and her friends bullying poor Arya.

“Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. “

Arya I, AGOT

Sansa and her friends gave her the cruel nickname ”Arya Horseface”. They mocked her for her Stark looks. Poor Arya no longer believes it when people call her pretty. But it’s nothing compared to the trauma she suffers after the Red Wedding.

“She could feel the hole inside her every morning when she woke. It wasn't hunger, though sometimes there was that too. It was a hollow place, an emptiness where her heart had been, where her brothers had lived, and her parents. Her head hurt too. Not as bad as it had at first, but still pretty bad. Arya was used to that, though, and at least the lump was going down. But the hole inside her stayed the same. The hole will never feel any better, she told herself when she went to sleep.

“Some mornings Arya did not want to wake at all. She would huddle beneath her cloak with her eyes squeezed shut and try to will herself back to sleep. If the Hound would only have left her alone, she would have slept all day and all night.”A Storm of Swords, Arya XII

After the Red Wedding, Arya becomes severely depressed to the point of just not wanting to continue. She feels like she’s stuck in an empty hole, one that will never get better. It shows how strong this little she-wolf is that despite the cruel bullying of her awful sister and snotty friends, despite the horrors she faces, she is still going. She is still a wolf. Still a compassionate charismatic girl who can make friends with anyone. But one can’t help but want to hug her after everything she’s gone through.

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yeniayofnymeria · 2 years

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Day 25: Family

A lot of my Arya posts involve Jon but… honestly? That’s in canon too. There is literally no family Arya thinks about more than Jon. And this line says a lot about their relationship. ”Needle is Jon Snow’s smile”. Home for Arya, and also for Jon, is with each other. Jon and Arya have an intensely powerful bond that is stronger than any in the series. Not only do they always think of each other but Arya executes a Night’s Watch deserter partly because this man betrayed Jon by deserting. Thinking Arya was married to the psychopathic Ramsay Snow makes Jon do something nothing else could: break his vow of neutrality. They may be far from each other but never far from each other’s heart.

Lyanna may be dead but she’s still an important part of Arya’s family. Arya is basically Lyanna’s successor. Ned says to Arya that she looks and acts much like Lyanna. Lyanna was said to have a wild beauty and it looks like Arya has inherited that from her. Arya is also great on a horse just like Lya was said to be possibly the most skilled horse rider in the North. And just like Lyanna, Arya loves flowers!

One of the sweetest moments between Ned and Arya is when Ned tells Arya “the lone wolf dies but the pack survives”. Packs are essentially wolf families. And Arya doesn’t just include direct family as part of her pack. Her friends (Gendry, Weasel, Lommy, Hot Pie) all become part of her pack and she does everything she can to protect them.

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yeniayofnymeria · 2 years

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I have a thread about Arya's traning and game of thrones issue on reddit.It's ironic that just because Sansa's with LF, people who believe she'll suddenly have political talent don't think about the use of Arya's FM talents.

Arya’s political education.

She is learning to read people, to see through their lies, and create characters and lies for herself. Pretty incredibly useful skills for any politician. Skills that can take her to any court in the world and help her play the game.

She attended Roose Bolton during meetings, acting as his cup bearer, which is the exact same thing heirs and young nobles do when they are having their political training. (she was also smart enough to guess that Roose; despite being Robb’s bannerman, was not to be trusted with her identity.)

And most crucially, she is having an intense political education by experiencing the brutality inflicted on the small folk as a result of the political dealings and fall outs of the nobles. The worst aspect of Westeros is the cruelty the small-folk face, and how their work is the backbone of the nation and yet they reap precious few rewards from it.

Poverty, oppression, indentured servitude and exploitation are all political issues, and they desperately need addressing. They are quite probably the most important issue politics need to solve.

It is so easy for nobles who have been cooped up in court, playing games with each other and catching only glimpses of the suffering their choices have on the population. And a large part of the fandom evidently feel the same way. But Arya isn’t going to forget any time soon. And she knows what makes small folk vulnerable and how that vulnerability is exploited by the nobility.

Sigils, dancing, pretty manners. That is all just a facade, something that Arya can study and learn. Just like she is learning to take on multiple different characters. They are all just masks. Arya doesn’t need to be a ‘gracious lady’, she just needs to be able to pretend. And she is currently having a master class in pretending.

But a true and unvarnished look at the lies of the vast majority of Westeros is crucial information for anyone who wants to enter into politics with a desire to do good.

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yeniayofnymeria · 2 years

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Just saw a jonsas saying that Jonrya would never work out because a relationship between Jon and a Stark would be about both politics and romance, and because "Sansa has the most political weight in the north and is the oldest Stark sister, it just makes more sense". They also claimed that the only reason it "worked' in the original outline was because of Sansa's death.

So basically despite Jon and Arya being extremely close, constantly thinking about each other, Jon seeing Arya in his love interests and dying to save Arya (who is the one the northern plot is centered on and not disinherited Sansa), etc. Jonsa just makes more sense 😑

Uhhh... boy do they make me laugh with this stuff. In the original outline Sansa's death is in no way connected to the story between Jon and Arya, or even Dany. It's completely separate and it's just an outline so idk how they can claim that lol? And she has zero political weight in the North. The Northmen don't care about her due to her marriage to a Lannister, Robb disinherited her, and Jon cares even less beyond using her name as a get-out-of-jail-free card. Idk how many times we have to point out that Arya's the only girl with political weight in the North.

"Even ruined and broken, Winterfell remains Lady Arya's home. What better place to wed her, bed her, and stake your claim? [...] He [Stannis] is too cautious to come to Barrowton … but he must come to Winterfell. His clansmen will not abandon the daughter of their precious Ned to such as you. Stannis must march or lose them... - ADWD, Reek III

"[...] What do you think passes through their heads when they hear the new bride weeping? Valiant Ned's precious little girl." - ADWD, The Turncloak

"Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. I would sooner my men die fighting for the Ned's little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. - ADWD, The King's Prize

"Aye, we will," came a cackle from the high table, where Arnolf Karstark sat with his son Arthor and three grandsons. [...] "We'll take it for the Ned and for his daughter. Aye, and for the Young Wolf too, him who was so cruelly slaughtered. [...] March, I said, and before the moon can turn, we'll all be bathing in the blood of Freys and Boltons." - ADWD, The Sacrifice

You know nothing, Jon Snow. He thought of Arya, her hair as tangled as a bird's nest. I made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … "I think we had best change the plan," Jon Snow said. - ADWD, Jon XIII

I'm not even gonna go into all the romantic aspects because we'll be here all day, but it's just as you said. If their requirements are really that a marriage be romantic, then yes Jon would choose the girl he actually has a connection with, the one he thinks of constantly, the one he calls his heart. And if it has to be political according to them too, then Arya has that in spades. After all, it was foreshadowed in her very first chapter:

Jon shrugged. "Girls get the arms but not the swords. Bastards get the swords but not the arms. I did not make the rules, little sister." - AGOT, Arya I

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yeniayofnymeria · 2 years

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It’s always fun when people who don’t understand ASOIAF or medieval culture in general embarrass themselves by posting essays filled with inaccuracies. Like this old claim that Arya killed Mycah by being friends with him despite his lower class. *sighs* Anyway, here’s an example of some kids at Winterfell playing with the kids of servants:

He had watched wistfully while the Walders contested with Turnip the cook’s boy and Joseth’s girls Bandy and Shyra. The Walders had decreed that Bran should be the judge and decide whether or not people had said “Mayhaps,” but as soon as they started playing they forgot all about him.

The shouts and splashes soon drew others: Palla the kennel girl, Cayn’s boy Calon, TomToo whose father Fat Tom had died with Bran’s father at King’s Landing. Before very long, every one of them was soaked and muddy. – Bran, ACOK

Clearly kids of lower ranks are allowed to spend time playing with commoners in Westeros. They aren’t equal and when play is done, they return to their separate spheres. But friendly interactions still take place between them and it isn’t a direct cause of death. Hell, Ned Stark brought commoners to the high table at times as a way of knowing his people, like a skilled leader would.

King Aegon III’s closest friend was the illegitimate son of a prostitute:

Aegon seemed to have only one companion he cared about. Gaemon Palehair, his six-year-old cupbearer and food taster, not only shared all of the king’s meals but oft accompanied him to the yard, – F&B

Princess Aerea Targaryen had friends of high and low birth:

Great lords, gallant knights, bedmaids, washerwomen, and stableboys alike had praised her, loved her, and vied for her favor, and she had been the leader of a pack of young girls of both high and low birth who had terrorized the castle. – F&B

I could go on, but what’s the point? They don’t actually believe what they’re saying. They’re just delusional enough to believe that their posts vilifying Arya in order to make Sansa look like a one-dimensional saint will have an impact on the series. Too bad for them, GRRM’s favorite female character is Arya and it shows.

If they had a shred of sense, they would see that no one is blaming Sansa for Mycah’s death. We’re just acknowledging that she is a classist, ableist, and misogynistic bully – just as George created her to be. She didn’t kill Mycah. She dehumanized him and victim blamed him because people of lower birth have no value to her. That’s not the same as killing him. That’s just validating those who did. The character and fictional universe they want to stan could more easily be found on a show like Reign, which is just as nonsensical as they are.

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yeniayofnymeria · 2 years

Text

I hate this fandom so gd much

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yeniayofnymeria · 2 years

Photo

Seasmoke, who had once borne Laenor Velaryon, took onto his back a boy of ten-and-five known as Addam of Hull, whose origins remain a matter of dispute amongst historians to this day. — Fire & Blood

Artwork by DownFel23

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yeniayofnymeria · 2 years

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Do you have a list of GRRM quotes about Arya? I know he has talked about her importance, and knowing where he was going with her story and what not.

Well, I do not have all of them, but here is what I do have. (Note: I left out some references that I thought were uninteresting, like if he just randomly includes her in discussion or it is something we have already had answered.)

*Edit: forgot this one. On Arya and Braavos:

He said that LOVES to write about Arya’s adventures in Braavos. He said he could write whole novels about. That received a huge applause until he joked that maybe he could put off Winds to do so. [source]

On Arya being his favorite female character/his second favorite character of all his characters written/being one of the closest characters he relates to:

“I do have my favorite characters, of course. Tyrion, Arya, Jon … but I love them all. Even the ones I kill.” -GRRM

A part from Tyron, is there any female character you love more than the others?

Oh, probably Arya… but as with the men, I love them all. -GRRM

First of all the books are amazing (ASOIAF, Wild Cards, the other stuff, its all great), thank you. Two related questions, and one unrelated one. While you probably have strong feelings for all the characters you write, do you have any “favorite characters” from A Song of Ice and Fire who you enjoy writing/simply like more than other characters?

Tyrion. Arya is fun to write as well. -GRRM

“Years and years later, when Wild Cards came around, I would use Bayonne and 35 East First Street to flesh out a character named Thomas Tudbury, elsewise known as the Great and Powerful Turtle. “Yes,” I would admit sheepishly when asked, “I am Tom Tudbury, only without the kickass teke.”

And that’s true, and that’s false.

Tommy’s me … but no more than all the others. Robb is me in “Song for Lya,” as Dirk is me in Dying of the Light … though Arkin Ruark and Jaan Antony in that one are both me as well. Abner Marsh is me, as his proud sidewheeler Fevre Dream is the excursion boat to Far Rockaway, only the passengers drink blood instead of Kool-Aid. Sandy Blair is J-school me, Peter Norten is chess club me, Kenny Dorchester is me trying to lose weight. Holt in “The Stone City,” he’s the kid lying in the grass, staring up at distant stars. Trager is me on a dark night of the soul, bleeding poison from three wounds named Josie, Laurel, Rita. Jon Snow has me in him, and Sam Tarly. The women too, Lyanna and Shaara, and the girls, Arya and Adara … Daenerys Stormborn, searching for that house with the red door. And Tyrion Lannister? Oh, yes. The Imp is me in spades, the horny little bastard.” -GRRM

On Arya as a favorite of the readers:

At the koffeklatche, George said the two favorite characters [of readers] were Tyrion and Arya. [source]

Tyrion y Daenerys [una reina interpretada por Emilia Clarke] son dos de las invenciones más vívidas de toda la saga. Son dos de los personajes más populares, aunque creo que los más populares en todo el mundo son Jon Snow y Arya. -GRRM

(The translation of that one is just that the interviewer said that Tyrion and Dany are two of the most compelling/vivid characters in the series, and GRRM says that they are popular but he believes Jon Snow and Arya are more popular/the two most popular of all the characters.)

On why Arya was in both AFFC and ADWD despite it going against his system:

“It broke down pretty well according to geography. I could have omitted Arya. I hesitated over her because she is on the other continent, but she had only three chapters. I was moving Jon Snow, Tyrion and Dany-three of my four most popular characters-into the other book. If I moved Arya too, it might not be a good idea. She’ll actually appear in both books." -GRRM

On Arya and the end/principle endgames:

"Some major characters — yes, I always had plans, what Tyrion’s arc was gonna be through this, what Arya’s arc was gonna be through this, what Jon Snow’s arc is gonna be. I knew what the principal deaths were gonna be, and when they were coming.” -GRRM

“Essentially I know the big stuff, but a lot of little stuff occurs in the course of the writing. And of course some of the little stuff is very, very important. The devil is in the details. The devil is what makes the journey more than just an outline or a Cliff’s Notes kind of experience. So I may know the ultimate fates of Jon Snow and Daenerys and Arya and some of the other principal characters. But I don’t necessarily know the ultimate fates of Dolorous Edd or Hot Pie, you know. Well, I have a few ideas about those, but still.” -GRRM

Will Arya have any significant impact on events later in the series?

No comment. -GRRM

On Arya’s (and Sansa’s) conception:

Arya was one of the first characters created. Sansa came about as a total opposite b/c too many of the Stark family members were getting along and familes aren’t like that. Thus, Sansa was created; he ended by saying they have deep issues to work out. [source]

On Arya supposedly being an assassin/the inspiration of being a child soldier:

So when you had first introduced Arya, you knew she was going to become an assassin?

Well she’s not an assassin yet. You are assuming she is going to become one. She’s an apprentice.

But she’s already going around killing people and she’s learned a lot of the secrets.

Not only in Ice and Fire — we also did this bit in the Wild Cards series, the whole thing of the child solider is a fascinating construct. We have this picture of children [as] so sweet and innocent. I think some of the recent history in Africa and some of the longer history have shown that under the right circumstances, they can become just as dangerous as men, and in some ways more dangerous. On some level, it’s almost a game to them. -GRRM

On Arya and Nymeria, being “adrift”:

Shaw: You mentioned how closely tied the Stark children are with the direwolves, but how about Sansa now that Lady’s dead? Martin: She lost hers, so it kind of leaves her a little adrift. Of course Arya has lost her’s too, she’s separated from Nymeria. [source]

On Arya (and Sansa’s) name(s):

The names Arya and Sansa are meant to represent the polar opposites of their characters, Arya being a hard sounding name, Sansa a softer more pretty name, etc. [source]

On Parris, GRRM’s wife, opinion of Arya:

Parris has proclaimed that Arya cannot die! (No, she wasn’t there :( but he mentioned it when someone said that he’s not allowed to kill Dany) [source]

On his favorite line ever written:

What is your favorite line you’ve ever written?

“I certainly like ‘Stick ‘em with the pointy end.’ And it’s more than one line, but I like the ‘Oath of the Night’s Watch.’ I revised it a number of times, polished it to get it exactly how I wanted it and to this day, it still gives me goosebumps when I hear it.” [source]

On Jon/Arya:

Granny: Are you trying to say something to the reader by drilling into us how much Arya and Jon love each other?George_RR_Martin: “Say something to the reader?” No, I’m just reporting how the characters feel. Of course, everything in the book says something to the reader. -GRRM

On Arya/Sansa and education:

How closely does Westeros resemble the real Middle Ages in terms of social customs and gender roles? For example, would highborn ladies have been expected to bathe guests and know how to make cheese, etc.? Sansa’s education and training seemed rather impractical - did the fault lie with her parents or were all young ladies raised like that?

Sansa is more than just a young lady. She’s the daughter, not just of a noble, but of one of the most powerful nobles in Westeros. The great houses stand far above the lesser nobles, as the lesser nobles do above the smallfolk.

She would not make cheese, no. But Arya might think it would be fun. -GRRM

And every single time skip answer includes Arya, gendrie has compiled a nice little list here.

Overall, GRRM talks about Arya a lot. I left out some of his more random references to her, but there’s others. Probably others I don’t even know about.

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yeniayofnymeria · 2 years

Note

Do you have a list of GRRM quotes about Arya? I know he has talked about her importance, and knowing where he was going with her story and what not.

*Edit: forgot this one. On Arya and Braavos:

On Arya being his favorite female character/his second favorite character of all his characters written/being one of the closest characters he relates to:

“I do have my favorite characters, of course. Tyrion, Arya, Jon … but I love them all. Even the ones I kill.” -GRRM

A part from Tyron, is there any female character you love more than the others?

Oh, probably Arya… but as with the men, I love them all. -GRRM

Tyrion. Arya is fun to write as well. -GRRM

And that’s true, and that’s false.

On Arya as a favorite of the readers:

At the koffeklatche, George said the two favorite characters [of readers] were Tyrion and Arya. [source]

On why Arya was in both AFFC and ADWD despite it going against his system:

On Arya and the end/principle endgames:

Will Arya have any significant impact on events later in the series?

No comment. -GRRM

On Arya’s (and Sansa’s) conception:

On Arya supposedly being an assassin/the inspiration of being a child soldier:

So when you had first introduced Arya, you knew she was going to become an assassin?

Well she’s not an assassin yet. You are assuming she is going to become one. She’s an apprentice.

But she’s already going around killing people and she’s learned a lot of the secrets.

On Arya and Nymeria, being “adrift”:

On Arya (and Sansa’s) name(s):

The names Arya and Sansa are meant to represent the polar opposites of their characters, Arya being a hard sounding name, Sansa a softer more pretty name, etc. [source]

On Parris, GRRM’s wife, opinion of Arya:

Parris has proclaimed that Arya cannot die! (No, she wasn’t there :( but he mentioned it when someone said that he’s not allowed to kill Dany) [source]

On his favorite line ever written:

What is your favorite line you’ve ever written?

On Jon/Arya:

On Arya/Sansa and education:

She would not make cheese, no. But Arya might think it would be fun. -GRRM

And every single time skip answer includes Arya, gendrie has compiled a nice little list here.

Overall, GRRM talks about Arya a lot. I left out some of his more random references to her, but there’s others. Probably others I don’t even know about.

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