must representation be “good”? is it not enough to watch two men destroy each other's lives

having now fully caught up--we are GOING there. 2022 louis will fuck 2022 daniel or i will riot

I don't know if this is just a Twitter phenomenon, but I am sick of some IWTV fans acting like those who identify Lestat as being abusive are being dramatic or misreading the show. Lestat's villainy intersects racial and supernatural lines; every power he has over Louis, physically or societally, he subtly uses to lure him in and to control him. He's a fantastic character precisely because he's charismatic, beautifully polished, thoughtful, and passionate, but also cruel, hiding a profound ugliness, so deranged about love it turns around into something monstrous, capable of unthinkable violence towards those he loves. And the first set of traits (are used by him to) disguise the second set. He's obviously purposefully written like that and dismissing that is doing the writers a disservice. They wrote an amazing fucking character, and he's selfish, manipulative, and yes, abusive to Louis and Claudia, and he's so cleverly written that even at his most cruel when he gets what he deserves, you can't help but feel just a little bit sorry for him. Ignoring that brilliance just to unironically uwu softboy he never did anything wrong babygirlify him is soooo lame sorry

People talk about the sex scenes in the TV show not being like in Anne Rice’s books… don’t they notice that the sex scenes include kissing & nudity: yes, and of course in most respects they have the look of any (wildly Romantic, intense, passionate & oftentimes violent) sex scene….

BUT if we witness a climactic moment, they also all culminate in the enhange of blood. Here, Louis bites into Lestat, just as the camera pans away. (Watch it & listen to the sound effects.) As Antoinette looks on. Well… wouldn’t you?! 😉😂😅😇 And obviously that’s what happens in the first sex scene too (but the other way round.) I’m just saying…

aah, I wish Jacob had been allowed to talk more about 'truth and falsehood' on the show. I know he was never gonna give specific spoilers, but it seems some fans are still in denial about Louis being an unreliable narrator at all. The fact that these kinds of discussions were happening behind the scenes suggests the cast knew from day 1 that something about season 1's narrative was false or misleading, they just didn't know exactly what.

Yeah.... I saw some posts around^^. (And the podcast host also pointed out that Louis was an unreliable narrator...)

I mean, it kinda feels like some kind of "gag order" has dropped away, because Jacob (and Sam) have been very blunt about that (and the Loustat relationship) in the last few interviews, but actually the fact that they all were discussing (and therefore knowing) what was true, and not is, actually, nothing new:

"Whenever I talked about something that Louis had said or that was in the script, because this show is Louis’ recollection of events, Sam would just be like, “Lie. Lie. That’s a lie. Did that happen? Is it real? Didn’t happen that way.” Very unhelpful for my preparation. [Laughs] I got really icy about it a few times. “I don’t want hear this. I have to believe something is true.” It’s nice be able to believe what you’re saying."

That's from October '22.

So the fact that he is, in fact, an unreliable narrator (or misremembers) and the reason why he changes some things stands in the room with him...

Like, if you watched the first season, and heard Daniel calling bullshit again and again, and saw him literally destroy the narrative of the last part and did not get any of the hints that are strewn throughout the show... then you simply haven't been paying attention.

And I know, there's so many layers. So many other - important! - stuff to focus on. Racial conflicts, patriarchy, power dynamics, cheating. The list goes on. But ultimately... this will be their - Lestat's and Louis' - love story, and this has been re-iterated in these last interviews, as well as that they're following the books, and... well.

POV changes, revisits and changes of perspective (and being called out for lying, too) are part of the books.

It's just that some fans don't want to apply this to Louis, for representative reasons I believe.

But... as Jacob put it so nicely in one of the last interviews:

"Something that can get misunderstood about representation is that all representation has to be good representation. It's important actually that we don't show a queer couple as a monolith or a Black character as a monolithic thing. I love that the show is willing to explore the multitudes of that relationship."

A lot of fans don't want to see the "bad" in Louis, or Claudia for that matter (and I use "bad" here very loosely, because there are no "bad", or, for that matter, "good" vampires in the chronicles). The hate I've gotten for pointing out weaknesses or simply flaws in the narrative, or when their behavior didn't make sense to me - or when I interpreted it differently in the light of later books... was off the charts at times. And I fear a lot of people will have a very hard time with the shifts that will come in soon.

But... they've been hinting at that since the beginning. And yes, they've obviously known, too. (And I would argue they would have needed to know which scenes would be revisited - and, honestly, Jacob's comment above does hint at that, imho.)

Have you decided what your fav characters’ favorite plays are?

NO I'M TOO OVERWHELMED LMAO HELP!! Okay but here are some thoughts about what sort of theatre I think they enjoy:

Lestat: Obviously since he got his start doing commedia dell'arte I think he'll always have a soft spot in his heart for those old comedies. (Honestly, I think Lestat is one of the only vampires who enjoys "lowbrow" comedy and I love that for him.) The style of traveling street theatre Lestat would've been performing during his time as Lelio was largely improvisational, and though it moved into a more scripted form over time, I think Lestat is an improv queen. I also get all giddy and happy thinking about his reaction to the fact that commedia dell'arte is still performed today! Like, I did a production of Servant of Two Masters in college lmfao it's still viewed as one of the foundational tenants of theatre to this day and I think that would really tickle him.

He's also a Shakespeare fan but historically speaking we know Lestat would've had to have read French translations which of course weren't impossible to come by, but given all of Lestat's circumstances in his early life (poor, uneducated, etc) it's definitely worth noting that he would've had to have worked hard to get at Shakespeare. I think it's so funny that his favorite play in canon is Macbeth and that he sees himself as Macbeth, whereas Louis and Claudia totally saw him as Lady Macbeth (which is why I wrote a lil ficlet about it LOL)

Okay LASTLY I also just want to say I think Lestat loves loves LOOOOVE restoration comedy and the comedy of manners that was a little before his time but just really focused on like. Outrageous comedy and satire. Lestat likes to laugh, okay!! He loves Moliere just as much as he loves Shakespeare! Tartuffe and She Stoops to Conquer are definitely plays he can quote by heart.

Armand: Shakespeare, yes, but very specifically: Jacobean Revenge Tragedies. These were a lot darker, a lot more hardcore and angsty (as the title suggests!). One day I'll have to get Armandblr's input for some meta and psychological background as to why Armand would be obsessed with plays where the protagonist is wronged so egregiously that they go down a path of murder and (gruesome, often cannibalistic) bloodshed and rage-induced hysteria that ultimately ends in their own demise. But for now I'll just say that I feel it in my bones. I think he staged The Spanish Tragedy at least a few times at the Theatre des Vampires.

Also I think he'd definitely be into theatre of the absurd, especially in his Devil's Minion era! He goes through phases where he really leans into the existentialism and finds it amusing and thought-provoking, but sometimes it also majorly fucks him up (similar to Lestat)

Louis: He's a Romantic at heart, and certainly he loves the classics, but we've already been over Shakespeare so I'll say that I also think Louis has a soft spot for the American canon. Think Tennessee Williams, Arthur Miller, Eugene O'Neill, etc. He's a modernist girlie, and I think those plays would be a good guiding light into understanding modern America for Louis. I think Louis often sees middle class America as a fascinating subject to study (rather than, like, a reality that real people live), and I think modernist plays are really good at toe-ing the line of like, being deeply humanizing and beautiful and tragic if done right, and also still being somewhat performative and maybe even a bit artificial and contained behind a fourth wall. I think that dichotomy would be fascinating to Louis. His favorites would be A View from the Bridge and Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.

Marius: Unfortunately there are like 0 Roman tragedies that survived in writing, but we know that they existed and were actually slightly different than Greek tragedies in that the characters actually voiced more of their internal psychological conflict, and also apparently the playwrights were influenced by the development of new rhetorical theory, so a lot of the writing incorporated like public persuasion. So I do think Marius would've been into those but listen I also happen to know for a fact that Marius' favorite play is Shakespeare's Coriolanus. He told me himself. I just read over the wiki synopsis to refresh my memory and I'm losing my mind over this line: "The two tribunes condemn Coriolanus as a traitor for his words and order him to be banished. Coriolanus retorts that it is he who banishes Rome from his presence." like PLEASE that's so petty I love it. Real talk though Marius loves a good political drama and look I know I've brought up Shakespeare a lot in this post already but no one is doing it like him, especially with the Romans!!

Daniel: he's a theatre of the absurd queen <3

I just wrote an essay in someone else's tags about this but honestly it deserves its own post. I'm such a fan of how the writers have reframed Lestat and Louis' romance.

In the IWTV film and the original book, their entire romance is framed through the lens of Louis' bitterness and resentment towards Lestat. Though it is undeniable in both that there is underlying affection and dependency between the two, Louis seems so blinded by his own retrospective remorse about the way things ended with Lestat - plus Claudia's death of course. Plus, I got the distinct impression in both the film and book that Louis is embarrassed about his love for Lestat - I think largely because in hindsight he understands wholly what an asshole Lestat really was, and is ashamed that his younger self fell in love with him so easily. As a consequence, many of the good things about their relationship - especially Louis actually falling in love with Lestat - sort of get glossed over.

I kind of love this framing device and the use of the Obviously Biased Narrator, and I sort of hope we'll see some of that bitterness seep through in Louis' retelling in later episodes, but I think the changes to the story they made in episode one work so wonderfully!

In the TV show, we get to see Louis fall for Lestat in slow motion, every tiny event which pushes him over the edge. The writers go to careful lengths to demonstrate that the love between them was real, liberating, and incredibly significant to Louis. What's more, because Lestat is there right from the beginning, Louis falls in love with Lestat before being turned, rather than after, giving them the chance to actually know each other (and for Louis to have at least a modicum more of informed consent about being turned). In the end, Louis seeks out vampirism to escape being a societal outcast and find acceptance and empathy from someone who promises he is just like him. He seeks understanding, he chooses life and love beyond the constraints of the racist homophobic society he lives in. What a contrast to the suicidal and apathetic Louis of the books! I'm going to be honest, I love this change. It clearly puts WAY more emphasis on the love story between Louis and Lestat rather than just focusing on the themes of grief so present in the original. It also changes the idea of vampirism as something horrible foisted on Louis without his consent, to something he chooses out of love, out of desperation, yes, but also out of hope for a better future. (Though of course we've yet to see just how much Lestat was influencing events!)

In my opinion, IWTV the series and IWTV the book tell two very different stories, and Louis is two very different men in each of them. Aside from the more obvious changes to characters' backstories and appearances, the themes are different as is Louis' driving motivation. (Though I would argue that some of the more obvious changes - like Louis being a Black man - very clearly contribute to thematic changes and the difference in the way his love with Lestat is portrayed. Him constantly fighting for respect from white society and having to prove himself to people he is more than equal to definitely contributes to the thought that he can escape to a 'better' reality through vampirism.)

Anyway, I just love how the writers have changed this story! I think that although it's very different to the source material it definitely offers an equally compelling and beautiful - if thematically different - plot. I'm so excited to see where the series goes from here - for example, will Louis still struggle with Catholic guilt after rejecting Christianity so openly at the end of EP1? Since Louis actively chose vampirism/to be with Lestat, how will that impact their relationship? How will it impact the turning of Claudia? Especially in the context of Lestat's whiteness, has Louis really found the understanding kindred spirit he thinks he has? So many questions. Hopefully the remaining episodes will be just as brilliant as the first!

Oh hell, I promised myself I wouldn’t get involved in the gender discourse because for one I know my knowledge in gender studies (and connected race theory) is severely lacking, but mostly because the vast majority of those takes are annoyingly reductive and just people trying to make a point rather than analysing what is actually there. But this is the nth time I’ve seen the argument ‘Louis is housewife coded because he cleans the house’ which pisses me off because IT HAS NO BASIS IN THE TEXT.

There is no indication at any point of the show that Louis ever does any chores in the house at all. None. Instead it is heavily implied they have servants for the first half of the show. Lestat mentions them in ep. 1 and when Claudia comes back she tells them ‘You need a housekeeper.’ Not ‘you’re living in a dump’. Not ‘you need to clean’. No, she specifically refers to a housekeeper because as someone who grew up with a certain wealth in the early 1900s she expects servants. And even after that we never see Louis do anything around the house. It’s Claudia who handles the clean up. Yes, Louis is injured but the point remains: Louis does not visibly do any chores.

More than that though, Louis being the one who cleans the house is completely contrary to his characterisation. You’re telling me rich boy Louis, ‘the big man in the big house’ full of servants that we see on screen, the guy who spends his entire human life projecting ‘I’m a powerful and manly man’ would even know how to use a broom? You want me to believe Louis with his fancy suits, expensive shoes, nice sweaters and chic little glasses spends his nights scraping his daughter’s half dried macaroons off the walls? Please. There are several scenes in ep. 2 that imply Louis needs to be taught to take the trash out, let alone that he would know how (or have the time) to clean in an era where that was a lot more difficult than just plug in the vacuum.

Obviously the reasons for this argument is 1) Claudia calling him a housewife, which is clearly an insult aimed at the power dynamic in their relationship and Lestat neatly filling the stereotype of cheating husband in that moment and is absolutely no indication of whether or not Louis is fulfilling any housewifely duties, and 2) the fact that the house falls into disrepair during the depression years.

The thing about that is that for most of that time they’re very clearly both depressed to a point were putting on clothes is too much effort, so neither Louis not Lestat cares about the mess enough to clean it up. But it’s also a correlation isn’t causation incident. Yes, the house became a mess when they got depressed and stopped caring, but they also went no contact with the outside world at the same time. Which means no more servants. When you’re trying to get the world to forget you exist you can’t have people going in and out of your house, gossiping about how no one knows where the masters go during the day but they’re never home, how some of the rooms feel smaller than they should be, the weird stains in the wineglasses or ‘I don’t know what they do with their clothes, Dorothy, but that suit which was perfectly fine last time I saw it, would have easily lasted another ten years, is suddenly gone, like they must have thrown it out and that’s the third suit this year. I mean, I know they’re rich, but such a waste…’ They are depressed so they don’t make an effort to clean up after themselves, but there is no reason to assume the mess gathers because it was Louis’ job to clean up before.

Yes, there are definitely moments in the show when they clearly have the dynamic of a heterosexual couple with Louis occupying the role of the wife to Lestat’s husband. But the opposite is equally true for other parts of the story (you cannot tell me that if those were both white men Lestat during the honeymoon years wouldn’t be 100% read as playing the trophy wife to Louis the businessman). And at no point is any of this because either of them is housewife coded.

Any modern AU wedding HCs? 👀

Aww, yes! I should have done this before tbh

They have their wedding in a beautiful historic French Quarter building. During the planning, Louis gets kind of down about not being able to have a proper Catholic wedding in a church, but his sister and Lestat do everything they can to make the venue look traditional. They also find a priest from the American National Catholic Church to officiate with similar rites, which isn't quite the same, but the gesture is very much appreciated and Louis isn't even weird about it.

Rather than a big wedding party, Louis has his sister with him at the altar and Lestat has Gabrielle. They have shared custody of Daniel the ring-bearer. Lestat REALLY wanted Mojo in the wedding, but he was kind of alone in that. He came to the reception for a while though.

Lestat loved to make big extravagant wedding plans when he was younger without thinking he'd ever get married and Louis never planned anything but always assumed he would (to a woman), so it's an unexpectedly emotional process.

There was some arguing about who was The Bride, but in the end they both have cream tuxedos for the ceremony and it's very elegant but still a tiny bit non-traditional. Lestat has three outfits for the reception though and only two are tasteful.

Everyone is worried about Lestat getting out of control with the open bar, but it's Louis who ends up getting excited and drinking too much. He holds it together for the guests but by 10pm he's fighting for his life.

Lestat is bridezilla, but Louis ends up more invested than he's willing to admit. He totally doesn't even want a big wedding but he's keeping an eye on those gardenias. And perhaps the catering. For quality control obviously.

No consensus was reached on the cake so it's half chocolate and strawberry-champagne, split vertically down the middle even though it's a tiered cake. It's easier to pay the baker a premium than to bitch it out.

The best wedding photos are the candids because anytime Louis sees a camera he freezes and stares really stiffly and awkwardly into the lens. He has to be secretly captured in footage like a nesting pelican on a wildlife camera.

Lestat gets to sing ONE song at the reception with his band but he gives it his all, that's for sure. His shirt is not all the way on by the end. Louis finds it charming but he is also very drunk by that point so he's just having a good time.

Their honeymoon is two weeks in Italy, which is a compromise because Louis wanted one week (workaholic home enjoyer) and Lestat wanted a month (obviously). They rent a fancy villa in the Tuscan countryside that's a short drive to Florence. They spend 50% of the trip consummating the marriage, 45% on all normal honeymoon activities, and Lestat spends the last 5% facetiming everyone he knows without any regard for the time difference.

Obviously don’t know where this 2022 AMC version of Louis and Lestat are going, but already there seems to be a pattern in Lestat’s behavior wherein he lacks genuine sympathy for/effort to understand the oppression Louis experiences as a Black man in america, and i’ll be interested to see if that continues or becomes a primary aspect of their inevitable fallout.

Like, yes, Lestat does want a partnership with Louis, he does love Louis, and he’s disgusted by overt acts of racism such as Louis being offered only 15% of a business he’d be expected to run - but when faced with Louis’ murder of a white man who had only ever spoken down to him and hoped to use him as a financial chip, Lestat cannot see past his own reactive anger at the minor inconvenience of hiding the body.

The exchange of Louis’ incredibly reasonable: ‘There are things you don’t understand about America’ - i.e. ‘please do not tell me, a Black man, what is racist and what is not.’

followed by Lestat’s sarcastic and deflecting: ‘Yes, let’s have this conversation again.’ felt so damning, especially when said in a moment of heightened emotion. Also, Lestat’s later apology of (summarized): ‘but if he’d really been disrespecting you, id have killed him myself’ only furthers his ignorance because, Lestat!!! Louis WAS being disrespected! His retaliation was NOT an overreaction, there’s no basis to be insisting that this was a mistake that needs correcting.

Additionally, Lestat pushing that they frequent the opera even though Louis (unwillingly) has to act as his butler, and the occasional excuse of ‘oh, im french, I just don’t ‘Get’ racism haha’ are also on my mind.

And to be clear, of course, this is me praising the writers and cast of the show, not flatly labelling it ‘problematic’ or wever. The themes of race and contrasting privilege have been some of my favorite parts of the new story, and I think Lestat’s whiteness is the perfect (and often ignored) trait to highlight in his character, even outside of his relationship with Louis.

(disclaimer: I’m white, so any input or critique of my language/analysis is very welcome)

@motleystitches left me this lovely, thought-provoking comment, and I wanted to take some time to answer it throughly:

"But was there at any time genuine affection between Louis/Lestat? That’s the part I feel is really awkward. Ep 5 seems to be asking to reinterpret all the previous episodes. Yeah, it’s abusive, violent, but ep5 made it seem like *everything* was just fake to Lestat, so they never went into a “pattern” at all. instead, it was just a game/hunt to Lestat…"

First, I apologize for taking multiple days to answer this. Second, let me clarify that I will make mention of things that I feel explain each character's shitty behavior. Explanation does not equal excuse. There is simply no excusing a great deal of what has gone down here.

So, to dive right in: Yes, I absolutely believe there was - and, still is - genuine affection and love between Louis and Lestat. That love is, quite understandably, not sitting around in plain view during the events of 01x05. Things have spiraled so far out of control between the two of them - lying, cheating, manipulating - that neither party seems to like the other, all that much, right now. While this is the first time the two of them have clashed to such extremes, it is hardly their first time at-odds. Love can survive a lot, and there's something about twisted, fucked-up, these-two-should-not-be-together love that seems to lend a little extra elasticity before the break.

To look at each character, I guess I'll begin with Public Enemy Number One. When the two initially met, I would agree that Lestat was on the hunt, both vampiric and romantic. The thrill of the chase was alive and well, as I should think most beings experience when they have a goal in-mind. And, as much as Lestat tries to separate vampire from human, he is still victim to basic human nature. He wants love. He wants companionship. I just don't think he's terribly fond of the idea of that he needs it.

Lestat, if you should ask me, is a terrible liar, even to himself. This, I think, is where a lot of the manipulation comes from. It looks ugly as hell, at face value, but I think a lot of it is rooted in insecurity. He either doesn't know how, or - for my money - doesn't want to ask for the things he shouldn't need. The things he should be strong enough to do without. Things that, in the past, have probably come back to bite him in the ass. So, he comes up with other ways to get them, to entice Louis into giving him what he wants. Again, manipulation is manipulation, but I don't think it comes from a place of falsehood when it comes to Louis. He wants from Louis, but he doesn't want Louis to know that he holds that kind of power over him. Unfortunately for him, it slips out when he feels that he's faced with no other choice to get what he wants.

Monogamy is my favourite example. His assurance to Louis that other people are acceptable is so terribly, obviously transparent, only to have a complete, unsurprising meltdown in the face of Louis taking advantage of their agreement. While there is definitely bullshit to be called in the double-standard, Lestat also comes across as genuinely heartbroken. And, who could blame him? (I'm sure many could, but, I'm speaking to the heartbreak, not the actions that followed). Here is his partner, who - by said partner's own admission - has little sexual desire for Lestat, only to take up with an old friend at the drop of a hat. I can tell you from experience, that is a shitty feeling. To have your partner show no desire to do something with you (not necessarily sexual), only to be all too willing to give it a go with someone else. That said, I firmly believe that Lestat wanted to believe it would be fine with it, to know that Louis was with someone else. Otherwise, he's in it too deep. He's jealous. That jealousy and heartache become weakness, and those weaknesses can be exploited at Louis' will.

And, Louis… This is what I love about this series, is that everyone is feeling this story in so many different ways. Personally, if I was to find anyone's love to be in doubt, it would be Louis'. He's so caught up in resentment of Lestat, for turning him, for killing to survive, for all of the basic things that Lestat is... He clearly has difficulty in getting around that. Louis has a very mild way of showing affection. Granted, a great many beings in this world are not affectionate, and that is just fine. In his case, it makes sense that at least some of it comes from a lifetime of being told that his feelings were, to quote, "a crime against nature". He doesn't owe Lestat affection, and he's not obligated, but... A lack of attention doesn't tend to work very well, when paired with a needy personality. Again, I'm not saying Louis should give Lestat everything that he wants. But, he knows what his standoff-ish ways do to Lestat. There's no way that he doesn't. Threatening to leave, and then walking out, only to turn back up once his point has been made. Or, even better, when he has need of Lestat, again. (See: Claudia).

Speaking of Claudia, this is a fine example of the things Louis knows, and how best to use them to his advantage. He's far more subtle about it than Lestat, but Louis is guilty of manipulating his lover when it suits him, too. When he needs Lestat's help to save Claudia, he knows just what buttons to push. He knows that Lestat loves him, and will do anything for him. A daughter means that he'll stick around for a family. Coming to him in the first place doubles as a stroke to Lestat's ego, letting the scales of power tip to his favour for a time. Even with that, it still gets Louis what he wants. He wants to save Claudia. He wants to atone for his own sins. He wants to be a good person. And, yes, I do believe that he genuinely wants to fix things with Lestat in the same move. (Four birds, one bite).

That's where the love (and the co-dependency) shows the most. Louis wants to fix it. He cools off, and comes back around, and gives it another try. Ill-advised? Fuck, yes. But... You can convince yourself of a great many things when you're in love. Otherwise, in theory, you'd probably walk away. He knows Lestat. He trusts him, trusts in his love, and in the good of him that certainly does exist. Again, if it was all bad... Well, something attracted him in, in the first place.

Fast-forward to 01x05... Violence is definitely not the answer, but I am not one bit surprised that such is where they have landed. Lestat has lost all of his hold on Louis, in all forms, be it love, attention, or power. And, he lost him to Claudia. His weaknesses have come back to bite him, and he's doing the only thing he seems to know how to do: bite back. Biting back against Claudia, though? Wrong move. Trying to harm Claudia, the only redemption that Louis may feel he has left in the world, his child, is worse than taking on Louis, himself. There is no way Louis lets that slide, even if that means taking on an older, faster, stronger adversary. Even if that adversary is his own lover. To protect his family, yes. But, in some truly fucked up way, I feel like this is the only way Louis is going to bother to protect himself. Where this leaves them, now? It's not pretty, not by any means, but it will be interesting to find out.

That was... a lot. (And, sadly enough, I have so much more that I could add). All together, yes, I feel that there is love between them, but they suck at showing it. Love isn't their problem. They're a personality mis-match, to say the absolute least. Incompatible. These two fail at communication. They really might have benefited from a long, involved, check-your-ego-at-the-door type of a conversation. It didn't have to come to this, but no one was willing to get to the root of it. Ego. Ego, ego, ego. (Mm, I love it). This relationship feels very real, where so many other on-screen portrayals are lacking. Now? Now, the road back to love will be treacherous, if even passable, at all.

After all, Louis may have said told Lestat to let him go, but he never said he didn't love him.

P.S. This is just my opinion, and I may very well be biased. I have been in this type of relationship before. We shouldn't have been together, but we were oddly perfect for one another, and that thought still surprises the shit out of me.

This is again ab ep6 so I understand if you don’t post this!

Re the prev posts, the arguments don’t really make a lot of sense. Do you think it’s Louis that is making them float? If it’s Lestat, then them floating doesn’t necessarily mean Louis is enjoying it as well. Like the significance of floaty sex in my mind anyway is that it’s showing that Lestat can get carried away with his powers sometimes, he might not be intentionally doing it but having sex with Louis is just so good it makes him float you know? But Louis in ep6 is checked out, not just in that moment while talking to Claudia, but in general. And what he’s saying goes with what is shown, he’s a shell of himself. He says it’s due to realizing Lestat was probably not going to change and he was probably not going to fight him on it anymore, and also seeing himself becoming like Lestat in due time. Also, not saying that he doesn’t love Lestat, he obviously still loves him, that’s what makes it tragic. Him loving Lestat doesn’t mean he’s always going to want sex with Lestat though, if that makes sense, so that’s another argument that doesn’t really hold imo.

I actually clicked on the link you provided having talked ab this exact ep 6 and agree more with op tbh, idk if you’ve changed ur mind since but that’s basically what I’m trying to convey in this post. And like J says, it doesn’t have to be a good relationship portrayed all the time, so it makes sense that this rocky part of their relationship is portrayed in this way in ep 6.

The thing is, and sincerely, with all due respect:

what it boils down to is you saying that Louis would spread his legs for Lestat if Lestat wanted sex, even if Louis did not want it. He‘s “checked out“, not there, poor Louis………..!!!

That is what Claudia insinuates and what you underline, and what all this discussion boils down to.

Poor Louis, unable to refuse. (sarcasm)

And sincerely: which Louis have you been watching? You really think this Louis, especially the show’s Louis is going to just roll over and take it?

Louis, refusing to play the game Lestat wants him to? Refusing to eat despite it being detrimental to his health? Refusing to bend to the rules of the law makers? Refusing to let Lestat come back for 6 years? Refusing to leave when Claudia wanted him to? That Louis?

If he has sex then because he wants to. And yes, people can want sex despite being in rocky parts of the relationship.

Louis never stops loving Lestat.

And I find it really interesting that his agency is (still!) dismissed like that.

If you really want to nitpick the floaty sex then start thinking about why they included that and not who made who fly 🙄

This is the last I‘ll say on this.

god my fav things about like genderswap AUs is asking like, how does this change the way the characters navigate the world or how other characters treat them, right? so like. I JUST IMAGINE LESBIAN DANIEL AS BEING EVEN MORE PRICKLY. So sick of being treated like a girl all the time, so hyper-aware of all deficits in her experience based on how sexism has treated her, MAYBE POSSIBLY MORE WARY OF CREEPS, EVEN CREEPS WHO ARE WOMEN LIKE ARMAND. Is she as unsafe, as blithely monsterfuckig??? Does he have an ounce of self preservation and survival instinct? Is it harder for fem!Armand to find her when she flees around the world?!? ALSO LIKE. I always wonder how many other characters get swapped in these situations like is Louis also a woman? Did Daniel go interview some fucking man in a seedy room all by herself???????? Where's her safety rules at I gotta know. AND ARMAND. Armand. God. I feel like the cult grinds people's personalities down so much like almost as if every COD vampire was this genderless wraith. Does that change for her? Even as a boy Armand had such a fuckd up life like HOW MUCH WORSE COULD IT REALLY GET FOR HER LOL. And like is CLAUDIA still a girl like where's the jealousy at between them? thereS JUST SO MUCH TO DISCUSS

I am so glad there’s people actually wondering about the intricacies of this because for me it’s just like woah it would be so hot if they were women hghgh but i love thinking about this so much!!!!

LESBIAN DANIEL WOULD BE SO PRICKLY!!! She is so tired of the world’s shit and I can not blame her one bit. “So sick of being treated like a girl all the time” YES!!!!!! Her gender is dyke and she’s butch <3 (this is totally not me projecting) i feel like she’d experience a lot of sexism that really ties into homophobia so she’s had to learn fend for herself and not take anyone’s shit.

Lesbian Daniel is still the ultimate monster fucker I think <33 she wants these vampires so badly it makes her look stupid! I do think she’d be more wary of Armand in the beginning though like I can not imagine her taking public transportation in the dead of night 😭 no leaping out of a taxi into traffic for lesbian Daniel lmao and I also think she’d be great at not giving strangers the time of day so it might take her a bit longer to warm up to her (but at the same time are they really strangers after hearing about her from Louis and then being locked in a cellar by her? 🤔 HGHG like they are literally uhaul lesbians)

AND I AM ALWAYS GOING BACK AND FORTH ON WHOS ALL GENDERSWAPPED!!!! Because sure ideally i love thinking about them all being women but narratively that doesn’t work out!!! Akasha’s plot line is redundant if there’s no men lol also would Gabrielle feel as estranged from everyone if there were no men?? And just like historically it doesn’t make sense </3 personally the people I would love to be genderswapped are daniel and armand (obviously lol) but also lestat and louis maybe nicki?? umm i think that quinn could be a woman too. As a treat <3 but everyone else I’m convinced could be the same I’d love to see how chaotic that story goes (also i need bianca my beloved to stay the same so that we can have venice lesbians <3)

AND ARMANDDD Armand… It would probably get so much worse for her 😭I feel like she would really really latch on to Allesandra like more than canon simply because they’re both women in the cult. Also because Armand is a woman I feel like she would need to try way harder to command everyone’s respect and fear she would have to be VICIOUS (said while twirling my hair and giggling) and while gender stuff is probably the least of her concerns when all of this is going down I think it would still fuck with her over time, especially considering canon Armand’s intricacies with gender. Would she feel like she has to perform feminity to be taken seriously? Or does she play into her androgyny (not that she has much of a choice)? But I can totally see her and Daniel having one of their big talks about gender and how they relate to it

THERE IS SO SERIOUSLY SO MUCH TO DISCUSS ABOUT THIS AND TY FOR TALKING TO ME ABOUT IT! <3 my asks and dms are always open to anyone who wants to talk about gay vampires I feel like I could go on forever about them