Dancestors and Their Implications on Classpecting

For many of Homestuck's readers, the Dancestors aren't exactly fond memories. While there is a good chunk of the fanbase who loves them for what's under the surface, myself included, I would argue the majority of the fanbase sees the Dancestors as what they were likely intended to be: bad-faith mockeries of Tumblr and the Homestuck fanbase at the time.

They are not well-written characters, for the most part. Oh, there are glimpses of interesting characterization and deeper story for all of them, but none of them beyond perhaps Aranea and Meenah live up to their potential. Many of them are uncomfortable at best and downright harmful at worst.

I do not want to talk about their characterization directly here, though. No, I would instead like to discuss the impact that the Dancestors have on a far more widely beloved part of Homestuck: the classpect system.

As we all know, the classpect system has two parts: the Class, such as 'Heir', and the Aspect, such as 'Breath'. Every sburb and sgrub player has a defined classpect, and every player we see in the comic has their classpect revealed at some point in time.

For the humans, every human has a unique class and a unique aspect. There are only eight of them who play sburb, so it makes sense for each of them to get one of the twelve options, as a shorthand for character differentiation. The Strilondes may be ectobiologically related, but each of the four has their own unique class and aspect.

For the trolls, though, there's something a little different that happens. Because there are only twelve aspects and fourteen classes, and because the master classes are only seen in-comic with the cherubs, there has to be overlap between the core twelve trolls and their Dancestors. Every class and aspect is used twice, in different combinations so that every troll has their own title.

What's interesting about the Dancestors' classpects, though, is that every Dancestor's aspect lines up with their respective core troll. The Captors, for example, are both Doom players, while the Vantases are both Blood players. They have different classes, but their aspect stays the same between the two of them.

Where this gets even more interesting is in the way the relationship between Dancestor and core troll works. Troll genetics is... hard to understand at best, and complicated even further when ectobiology is pulled into the mix, but we know that they have a concept of ancestors who provide the majority of their genetic code. We also know that each of the Dancestors is ectobiologically the ancestor of their respective core troll. The Dancestor Aranea Serket, for example, is genetically the same as Alternia's Mindfang; much in the same way that Jane Crocker is genetically the same as Nanna.

While we cannot say that the ancestry rules are the same for the sgrub players as they are for the rest of Trollkind, I believe that it is more informative and interesting to read the text in that way, because when we do there is a clear and incredibly useful correlation to be found. Because we do not see the trolls' ectobiology in action, I think it is reasonable to make the assumption that ectobiology machines tend to reflect the genetic combination practices of the species playing, and so would create a mother grub-like condition for the trolls as opposed to the parent-like condition that Jegbert had.

Assuming this to be true, then, and that the Dancestors share a large part of their genetic code with their respective core trolls, let's look back at the aspect connection.

Why are their aspects the same, but their classes different?

I believe it is a matter of nature vs nurture, where aspects are determined by nature and classes are determined by nurture.

The biggest difference between the trolls and their Dancestors is the world they were brought up in. The Dancestors lived in a world much more similar to our own, with many social issues being bureaucratic and political in nature; where the core trolls grew up in a much more violent and war-focused world. This is very clear in the canon of Homestuck, and established regularly throughout openbound.

This would, inevitably, lead to the Dancestors being raised and nurtured to implement their aspects in different ways from the core trolls. In turn, this brings them to have different classes.

Let's also look at what the basic setup of classpecting: classes have verbs (eg: bards and princes destroy) and are either passive or active (eg: bards destroy [aspect] while princes are destroyed by [aspect]), and aspects are the elemental forces affected by those verbs. From the Expanded Zodiac, we can further interpret aspects as a person's core values, and extrapolate that classes are how they interact with those core values.

This, too, lines up with the nature vs nurture interpretation of the classpect system. Both Karkat and Kankri are Blood players, and we can see that at their core both of them very heavily value the bonds between people. Those bonds are, for the Vantases, the most important parts of their lives. What's different between them is how they act on that belief: Karkat, as a Knight, helps (or, more properly, serves) the people he's bonded with and make sure they're happy and prospering, and is regularly the guy any of them go to for emotional advice; where Kankri, as a Seer, knows the connections between people and knows how to work with those connections to try and minimize conflict.

Karkat grew up in a world where he was marked for death from the day he was hatched, and the only way he would survive would be to serve powerful people and hope to impress them. He was nurtured into a role where helping people he's grown a bond with was useful and practical to keep himself alive and moving forward in the world.

Kankri grew up in a world where he was effectively a highblood's pet, and the only way he could further his place in society was to understand the connections between people and the complexities of a political bureaucracy. He was nurtured into a role where understanding the bonds between people was useful and practical to keep himself moving forward in the world.

Both of them, though, are still Blood players at their core.

While it is clearest and easiest to see this connection in the Vantases, it is, to my knowledge, true for all of the troll pairs.

This interpretation of classpecting, where classes are determined by nurture and aspects are determined by nature, may seem somewhat less than useful on the surface, but I believe that it is actually a GREATLY useful reference point for writing and developing characters, both in AUs and in original works.

Let's say you wanted to write a high school AU, but you were struggling to keep Karkat in character because of his more aggressive tendancies. Knowing that his Blood aspect is determined by nature would help to identify exactly what core values should be carried over, where having Knight be determined by nurture would help identify what might change or shift in this new version. Perhaps he's still a Knight, and he was still raised in a situation that led him to be knight-like, but it now takes the form of Karkat demanding that his friends have study groups together and ensuring that they're all ready for tests and quizzes.

It's flexible, of course, and should never be used as the single point of a character's personality, but I think that using the classpecting system to identify how a character's environments affect how they interact with their core belief is a really interesting and useful usage of the system.

TL;DR: I believe that the Dancestors' aspects being the same as their core troll counterparts while their classes differ indicates that classpecting is determined, in part, by the nature and nurture factors on a person's personality. Aspects are determined by nature and genetics, where classes are determined by nurture and environment. I think that this interpretation of the classpecting system is particularly interesting when creating characters and useful in analyzing characters both within and outside of Homestuck, as a way to identify how the way a character is raised leads them to interact with their core beliefs and values.

I finished Homestuck and had a little time to think about it. Overall I liked it. It wasn't cringe and actually pretty good. However, it of course was not flawless, so I want to put the parts that I didn't enjoy as much. The pacing was off. Often it either felt like stuff moved either too slow or too fast. Sometimes an act was done in single animation and then you had to read thousands of words of pesterlog before anything significant happened. It was good that I mostly read in small chunks. The first intermission is really strange for a first time reader. It makes so much sense on re-reads, but I felt like I was reading a completely different comic back then. During that part of the story, we barely even know who Jack Noir is and suddenly his alternate version is the main character?! I was so confused and mainly stayed in there because Snowman was sexy. Vriska's "redemption". Like, I get why she had to be retconned to be alive, but her death was deemed as just which meant the game clearly recognized how much she fucked up and even after the redemption she is still a HUGE mega bitch and she gets away... completely scot free?! The only person who really is calling her out is John and all he is saying is "You are dangerous." And the only "The reason you suck speech" is been given to her.. by herself to a version of her that was finally healing! Like what the fuck, dude, WHAT THE FUCK! I still think she is a great character, but wow, I know why I have a profile pic of her bleeding out. Jake feels like he got reduced to butt monkey in the end. Yeah, he fucked up, but so did everyone else and the tension was high between them. He really didn't deserve to be talked down so much (by Vriska also) and in the end he even accepted that everyone called him Joke. And while he battled the whole Felt alone, that not eben Robo Jack/Spades Slick deemed him worthy as an opponent in Collide did kinda hurt. I felt the same for Karkat and Tavros, they really are not treated kindly and yeah, they are lacking godlike powers, but Tavros was straight up kept absent from the final battle and Karkat would have been absent if not for him being punched back in the narrative. It was clear as day that the author got overwhelmed with the amount of characters and so he killed half of them off before they could shine. Which made characters like Eridan kinda stunted in any development and I never could see more in him as "kinda a douche" for example. Maybe that changes on re-reads, but it is hard to get attached when you see them act like jerks for a few pages and then they die. The dancestors were terrible characters that were downright offensive. I will never do the Meenah walkarounds again, which sucks, because I love Meenah as a character (only one of the dancestors who is tolerable). But the rest?! Wow, just wow! I am the first person who gives the benefit of the doubt, but they were done like that on purpose. I don't have to mention just how offensive Mituna and Rufio are and how bad of a character Kankri is. Why was Terezi even so starstruck about her ancestor?! She was the kind of gamer girl who would flaunt her boobs on twitch! Arghl, sorry, I really really hate them... I was a bit disappointed that Dave didn't manage to spit out that he was not straight at the end. I mean, it was obvious, but him saying it would have been nice. Davepeta and Rosejasprite had no purpose whatsoever. Why was act 6 like that?! It was really strange. Would have been better as several acts like it was in the beginning. Okay, I think that was all the criticism I had. Feel free to discuss.

VENT ABOUT HS ACT 6 (a little epilogues and HS2 too)

there's a lot of hate in this post, characters and ships aren't safe, you have been warned.

Everytime i think about what act 6 did to all the characters (ESPECIALLY dave and vriska), i get so much angry i seriously wanna scream.

I dont hate everything about act 6, but it was so GARBAGE. And also seeing that "davekat" moment in the near-end of the comic (after egbert changes the timeline with that juju), it makes me go PURE RAGE! Not just because i fucking hate that ship which really has NO REASON to be canon, but because kk, when hes with dave, acts SO DIFFERENT IN A BAD WAY AND I HATE IT I ABSOLUTELLY HATE IT!

And dont get me start with dave. Its like they wanted to develop his character, but they got lost half way through it. I despise whatever fucking cry-baby dave is in act 6.

Vriska was absolutelly ruined by the end. Her character was going so well!! And then BOOM! Sorry guys, you wanted a redeemed but coherent vriska? Lmao, get fucked. Instead we have this all-problem-solving-friendly vriska, who can solve everything! Even stuff she shouldnt be involved with, like, idk, rose drinking problems???

And no one talks about sollux and aradia, but really: sol finally escapes his responabilities with the game, he doesnt want to have NOTHING to do with it, at all. And of course everyone knows it. But aradia? No, she has to take him to vriska and get him involved again. And he basically cant escape, since he depends on her because hes blind and has to wait feferi and nepeta to get him the fuck out of there. Theres no way aa didnt know sol would have hate being there, but it is implied they havent talked about it until sollux decide to go away. Arent they, idk, fucking moirails?

And beta kids. Ive read again act 1 recently, and they are friends and so lovable with each other. It all get lost during act 6. Its not like they arent friends anymore or they hate each other or stuff like that, but DAMN they sure have changed and still not solved anything!!

And fucking kanaya? Even in the fandom, now she and rose are basically no one if not "the lesbians". Yes, i do ship them, i do love their relationship, but in act 6 they lost their character traits and where reduce just to "sappho lesbian" and "alcoholic lesbian" and thats it.

And the fuckin alpha trolls??? I hate every single one of them, i love only the version of them that i have IN MY MIND and the potential they had and it was compleatelly waste. I 100000% hate kankri and i hate mituna even more, beacuse i remember being intrigued by him: everyone was talking about his sacrifice and how a good person he is and all i saw was this stupid shitty ableist "representation".

And the alpha kids and their stupid fucking disney channel teenagers love problems that go fucking nowhere. Literally only roxy has a character development and a decent arc, the rest SUCK AS HELL.

And lord fucking english. Hes boring af, caliborn is annoying af, but still hes the "main villain"??? And also another -10000 point to dave: he was supposed to beat the shit out of lord english, cuz theyre both time-something, and it was a good way to make dave not a fucking pussy anymore but NOPE! Now hes even lower than he was before!!

And my friends ask me why i dont wanna read the epilogues or homestuck2??? Im fucking terrified here. What the fuck do you want me to read when i know some stuff that happends (because of non voluntary spoilers i found around in the fandom) and all of i know its disgusting??? My n.1 notp becomes canon, nonsense drama happens, rose cheating kanaya!? Jane and jake are together and jane is a cunt!?? Do you really want me to read some bullshit like this???

Fuck everything. Act 6 never happend, the epilogues and hs2 dont exist. Fuck evrything again.

if you have the time/patience to look over these troll kids, i would be so happy! ^ㅂ^ john captor, rose zahhak, jade makara, and dave serket! if dave serket makes you uncomfortable, you don't have to analyze him! (i also apologize if my english seems awkward, not my first language! ^^;)

Your English is just fine honey!

John Captor, raised on the lower cusp of middle class but not quite there, with crazy psii powers and a lusus that loves him, but is also something of a giant (heheh) handful. John would probably try to raise bees, realize that’s a LOT OF WORK, and just buy mind honey to feed biclopsdad from then on. Someone else can raise bees and sell honey he’s perfectly content being a patron of someone else’s hard work. Probably tries to get into coding but, predictably, still sucks at it despite being a troll now, bc that was never really a “yellowblood” trait as much as it was a “Sollux” trait. John and Karkat (if he exists in these?) pretending to be competent coders at each other while both of them just suck, respectively, is a hilarious idea btw. Probably tries to run a trolltube channel where he does speedruns through various games, but it devolves into Mcelroy-esque nonsense where he godmods everything (look at him, being a CODER, he’s so HARDCORE with his CODING) and proceeds to do the DUMBEST shit. A real comedian, that fella. Has NO IDEA how to fix things, the most you can get out of him is an awkward joke with a pat on the back and more frequently he just shuts down emotionally and stares at things as they go wrong, but he IS a very good listener, he’ll make you feel comfortable and listened to, he naturally mimics the posture of the people who’re distressed (like in canon) but just because he’s very very empathetic doesn’t mean he has ANY idea how to go about helping with that aside from listening and offering his shoulder to cry on. As Heir of Doom, he and Mituna share a classpect, which means Bad End: he becomes doomed and gets fucked over BIG time, Good End: he comes to terms with himself and his own way of experiencing the world and interacting with others, and embraces himself fully, the good and the bad, and doesn’t sweat the small stuff.

Rose Zahhak, raised on the underside of RIDICULOUSLY WEALTHY, where propriety is stressed heavily and she can have anything she wants, so long as she bows down to those “above” her, and her lusus cares deeply about her, but also kinda lets her get away with most things. Also, she’s freaky mutant strong and has piss poor control over it. She’s gonna have the trademark Zahhak frustration-anger-breakshit-further frustration-more anger- break more shit-get even MORE frustrated- anger cycle. The idea that society will give her anything- not because she’s earned it or because she deserves it- but because she was born into it, would initially be appealing, but she would be expected to subject herself to the whims of those colder than her, and she would, well, absolutely fucking hate that. Tear it all down, tear down all society, it’s broken beyond fixing, nothing good can be tweaked or edited into existence, burn burn burn it all. As Seer of Void, she’d at first be amazed that she’s not a Rage player, that would make more SENSE that’s what she’s ABOUT, but slowly, slowly it would start to make sense. A Seer of Void is one who can see potential, someone who can see what would rise from those ashes, someone who can take her anger and guide the world into SOMETHING out of the nothingness that she sees everywhere he looks, the nothingness that consumes her, the lack of value placed on every troll, on her friends, the senselessness of her society that doesn’t make any kind of REASONABLE decisions. She craves order, something sensible, which she never finds in the society she was raised in so once it’s down, she’s the one that guides them into building anew.

Jade Makara, then, is the one to bring it down. Raised alone at the oceanside, without even the benefit of a dog or chessfolk to chat with, I can imagine her frustration and short fuse that we see in canon would get even worse, clinging to her friends as her one remaining scrap of sanity in a society that doesn’t make sense. Jade & Rose moirallegiance is… good… two girls complaining about society, how it sucks, even though they’re the people who are supposed to be BENEFITING from it it’s still BULLSHIT! Why are so many people okay with this! Jade and Rose bounce off each other, frustrated and also Jade would probably feel kinda guilty about it all. Why is she “higher” than anybody else? It wouldn’t sit well with her, but also she’s ONE PERSON and society is a LARGE AND COMPLEX THING. Rose’s talk of tearing it all down, just burning it all to the ground and starting anew would sound… pretty fucking nice, actually, but while Rose would be more wont to just bitch about it, Jade is more a woman of action, and she doesn’t have a centaurmom patting her back and telling her to chill, she doesn’t really have any mom at all, since seagoatmom seems to have better things to do than take care of her child. Jade would want to somehow destroy society without killing everybody- that would be cruel, but how else would they start anew? The Game settles this issue for her, (un)luckily. As Witch of Rage, hers is the task to take her anger, her frustration, the injustices she feels buried deep in her soul, and use those to incite CHANGE. Working together with Rose, Jade will be the force to tear it all down, and Rose shall pry a path of righteousness out from the darkness. Idk how Jade would interact with the cult, tbh, I feel like she might enjoy the juggalo stuff while she’s little, but eventually grow away from it when the violence and hemoclassim starts to sit ill with her. She likes the clowns and mirth part, less the messiahs and murder bits.

Dave Serket (I don’t mind, it’s just Vr*ska/Aran*a/M*ndfang that I get VERY UNCOMFORTABLE about) is raised on the high edge of the middle class, with a piece of shit lusus that makes him kill. Dave would, too, he’s a people-pleaser, and we know from canon that his guardian is someone he wants to please VERY badly. Spiderdad is nasty and awful and abusive and forces Dave- who does not like death or danger or hurting others at all- to do dangerous things and hurt and kill others. Puts forth a coolkid exterior, acts unbothered by the atrocities Spiderdad forces him to commit, acts tough and untouchable and aloof but in reality he craves validation, someone to listen to him. He wants, desires, craves intimacy, but the idea of opening up to another person causes visceral, abject horror within him at the very thought. As Knight of Light, his job is to protect luck and knowledge, which he thinks is a STUPID role, wtf. Probably fucks right off his planet and goes and chills with John for a while, and they both come to terms with themselves together, going through their personal journeys side by side. John would be critical in Dave’s journey, someone empathetic, someone who listens but offers no judgement, someone who believes Dave and doesn’t just go “We’re trolls what do you expect.” He lets Dave spill his guts to him over and over and over again, and Dave is almost ravenously protective of John, who he considers himself incredibly lucky to have in his life. Rose and Jade, too, Dave would give anything for, in part because his childhood has conditioned him “if you love someone, sacrifice for them” but also in part because he’s just a really loving dude and he’d do anything for his friends because he adores them.