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midnight-in-town · 5 months

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Ao no Exorcist is a Shonen series written by a woman and it shows

Since the latest chapter, I've been thinking about how several usual Shonen tropes are written rather differently under Kato-sensei's pen. No judgement or anything, it's just cool to observe. Some examples :

1) Rin's mentor is a woman

2) Rin's secret, despite being the MC, was revealed in ch13 to the entire cast, meanwhile Shiemi, The Main Girl, who was introduced to be so helpless is only starting to be explained.

3) Also, the Mysterious plot-relevant Shonen Parent is actually the twins' mother. (Of course Shiro is super plot-relevant too, but Satan is still angsting over Yuri and she's a huge part of the reason why he's the big bad)

4) Rin also changed his view about his future throughout the story: from dropping out of school, passing by hoping to become the Order's Paladin (probably to cope with Shiro's death and also to antagonize Arthur), to finally showing way more interest and potential in the (less epic and heroic in appearance) field of talismanic cooking.

5) When it comes to arcs, mental illness is a valid reason to build a character arc around...

6) And so is making an arc about girls being "cursed" to basically "get married and have children before they hit 30, the age where their beauty fade thus they become useless" :

7) ANE is a story about women becoming traitors to protect their loved ones, like Mamushi

or becoming overwhelmed because men toyed with their feelings like Tamamo

8) Older women can be absolute badasses like Shiemi's grandma

or Lucy.

9) Complicated mother-daughter relationship and girl friendships are given as much focus as complicated father-son relationships and sweet bro friendships (like Bon and his dad during the Kyoto arc, as well as the complicated but deep bond between the Kyoto Trio)

10) And one of my favorites: full time single dad, asking for help to do the job as well as he can and finding his true purpose in life by doing so :D

Hmm and now that I think about it, the only other Shonen series written by a woman I've been as invested in is Kuroshitsuji, by Yana Toboso, and similar examples can be found in it too, namely:

1) If Ciel ever finally admits needing a mentor, his aunt Frances will probably play that role

2) Girls can be super strong & skilled (Elizabeth, Mey Rin) and clever (Sieglinde)

3) (one part of) the Big Bad is a woman (Queen Victoria)

4) maybe Ciel's entire revenge stems from a conflict between Queen Victoria and Ciel's maternal grandmother, Claudia.

5) the Undertaker has been a continuously freaking pain in the ass because he probably fell in love with that same maternal grandmother and couldn't mourn properly

TL;DR we love our boys and their spectacular growth and development under women's pens a.k.a shonen series written by ladies are hella fun to read. :D

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akindaboringp3rson · 1 month

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Drew another fanart of Undertaker and Claudia Phantomhive because I can't get them out of my head.

#fan art #undertaker #black butler #kuroshitsuji #claudia phantomhive

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ignotarts · 2 days

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🤔

"Phantomhive Family"

#kuroshitsuji fanart #kuroshitsuji #black butler #cedric k ros #claudia phantomhive #vincent phantomhive #Frances midford #Frances phantomhive #undertaker black butler #undertaker kuroshitsuji

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gojossugarcandy · 2 months

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I don't know why I get the feeling that undertaker is one of the Phantomhive's descendent.

Like, there is some relationship between Claudia Phantomhive, Ciel's (and his unnamed twin brother who plays the protagonist all along) grandmother, and undertaker which is like marriage or like undertaker is a member of Phantomhive family or something?

Because he protected Ciel from burning and is like ruining the whole world's dead people and killing living people just to find a way to make the real Ciel live.

Another reason is because it was once said that Shinigami-s were also humans, but they committed a suicide and as a punishment had to collect others souls and witness death until the punishment was over.

Also, in one of the side stories, he cries while seeing Vincent Phantomhive's photo, Ciel and the protagonist's father.

And, please clear this doubt of mine

Is the Blue Revenge Arc, the final arc of black butler?

Because the series is going on since 2006, and it is already like 18 years.

#black butler #blue revenge arc #undertaker #ciel phantomhive #yana toboso #black butler ciel #kuroshitsuji #theory?#phantomhive twins #claudia phantomhive #vincent phantomhive #sebastian michaelis

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i-n-e-a · 1 year

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Just r!ciel celebrating his birthday with his family 😊

(And his parents death anniversary too)

#kuroshitsuji #black butler #ciel phamtonhive #r!ciel #real ciel #black butler fanart #kuroshitsuji undertaker #undertaker #vincent phantomhive #claudia phantomhive

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nullbutler · 10 months

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Vincent Phantomhive is back from the dead, and back with a vengeance. He wants to avenge his wife. He wants to find his sons. Most importantly, he wants to reclaim his pride. Truly, hell has not seen the force of a Watchdog on a rampage.

The first chapter of Vincent's story [vol.1] is complete! yes I'm making a fucking black butler webcomic

READ HERE

#the dead the damned & the devil #kuroshitsuji #black butler #Vincent phantomhive #angelina dalles #madam red #Francis midford #Elizabeth midford #Edward midford #Alexis midford #undertaker #claudia phantomhive #webcomic #fan comic #black butler fan comic

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dqrkncss666 · 15 days

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Black Butler Season 4 opening analysis (bear with me)

So, as we all know Otoha (we love Otoha) has made the new opening for Black Butler S4. This in case you missed it 0-o

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A wonderful opening. SADLY WITH A LOT OF EASTER EGGS. ON TODAY'S EPISODE OF DORA ON CRACK WE WILL DISCUSS THE EASTER EGGS I FOUND.

TRUST ME. THIS IS WORTH READING.

So starting from the beginning and also linking the translated ENGLISH LYRICS of this song from this video:

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We will start the analysis (Photos will be provided at the BIG EASTER EGGS while time stamps in both.)

SPOILER WARNING FROM MANGA DO NOT APPROACH IF NOT READ !!!!!!!!!!

So at time stamp 0:17 in the official intro, we have Bizzare doll bandages (Oh wow I am so smart).

At time stamp 0:25 in the official intro, near the shattered glass of Bluewer we see Claudia's P. locket AGAIN.

At 0:28 in the Of. In. we have Sebastian covering Ciel with his cape resembling the darkness that 'ate him' (haha ya get it) when he made the contract

At 0:33 we have a very old and dry 'Tree of Life' ew XD

At 0:36 for people that didn't notice behind Ciel, it's the Headmaster/ Undertaker.

NOW. at the time stamp 0:41 till 0:43 IF YOU PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE GLASS REFLECTION BEHIND THE OBVIOUS PEOPLE YOU CAN SEE REAL CIEL HOLDING IT. I KNOW THIS IS SHOCKING BUT ONCE YOU SEE IT'S AMAZING.

At time stamp 1:03, Black butler became Attack on Titan XD

NOW. At time stamp 1:06 we see this

This is followed by the lyrics from the video I linked:

This is Undertaker speaking and the silhouette we see is Claudia P. I came to this conclusion because of the scene in Book of Circus that Undertaker holds her locket THIS SCENE

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And has a monologue of the warnings he has given. HERE COMES THE LYRICS OF THE INTRO: ' EVEN THE FEELINGS OF CURSING SOMEONE ARE TAKEN IN LIKE AN OFFERING' It fits perfectly.

9. At time stamp 1:11 we see Ciel... OR IS IT. That is in fact REAL CIEL.

This is based again on the lyrics of the video I linked which are these:

It speaks for itself. ITS THE REAL CIEL AND NEXT TO HIM IS NOT SEBASTIAN BUT UNDERTAKER IN HIS CLOAK.

10. At time stamp 1:12 we see the lockets again (Undertaker)

11. At time stamp 1:24 we see the witch arc forest and the dead bodies that were thrown in there.

Possibly speed run to a Season 5 and 6 0-0???????? Green Witch arc and Blue Star??

I will finish this one here but I am not done with the full song of Otoha that I will probably reblog here tomorrow as it has more Easter eggs concerning some characters.

Bye-bye for nowwww XXXXXX

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blxxdingstars · 10 months

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Is Claudia near Undertaker?

During reading the manga again I’ve noticed a skull on a pillow on Undertaker’s desk. I wonder whose it could be?

Undertaker was seen cuddling a skeleton also on other official arts like these below:

What do you think @abybweisse ?

#kuroshitsuji #black butler #undertaker #claudia phantomhive #undertaker x claudia

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fieryskies · 1 year

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Now that the parallels are rotting my brain again, do y'all think Ciel and his grandmoter (Claudia) would be chill or would they have a "My morally questionable possibly romanticly involved immortal is better than yours" argument

#sebaciel #ciel and claudia bickering while undertaker is kicking seb's ass in the back #ciel phantomhive #sebastian michaelis #kuroshitsuji #otp: monochrome kiss #black butler

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imintobones · 4 months

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Claudiataker works best as a gothic romance if reapers have some sort of supernatural aura following them. Perhaps at night, when a maid comes in to stroke the fire in Claudia's bedchamber, it is unnaturally cold, as if the fire wasn't even there. Maybe when the Aristocrats of Evil are invited to dine at the manor, the food always tends to come out a bit off, a tad too salty, or sweet, maybe even lightly burnt. Sometimes when Claudia takes walks out in the garden with her most favored informant, the horses in the nearby Phantomhive stables become nervous and unmanagble.

#tldr undertaker is creepy and offputting in more than one way #I wish that was actually the case within the manga or at the very least showcased more often #black butler #kuroshitsuji #undertaker #undertaker black butler #claudia phantomhive #claudiataker #undertaker x claudia

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alexisyoko · 1 month

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"Sebastian dies from hunger." "Grell and William hold hands." Imagine if Black Butler ends like that, lol (unlikely tho).

The link to the game : https://brantsteele.net/hungergames/disclaimer.php

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midnight-in-town · 9 months

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Frances Midford : The Mentor, a summary

To follow with my post about fighting against misinformation, here’s a first topic.

Ciel’s remaining aunt is often viewed by the fandom as a mean lady who doesn’t care, because of a) all the mysteries around the family that Ciel doesn’t know about and b) the use of comic relief in Kuroshitsuji often used to hide some relevant clues, as previously demonstrated in this post. This is actually far from what her character really is about and I intend to demonstrate it now with a (long) recap post.

I have talked about Frances a lot in the past, about her caring about our!Ciel and about her possibly knowing, like Tanaka, that he was lying about his identity. While the former is undeniably true, the latter is still up for debate. [X][X][X][X] However, with the upcoming adaptation of the Weston arc (probably) in 2024, I don’t want the old discourse to come back, so without further ado...

What Yana has said about Frances’ character

Besides our!Ciel, Frances is the last remaining Phantomhive (not counting real!Ciel as a BD). She’s Vincent’s younger sister, they both have the same parents (that is to say Claudia P and Cedric K. Ros) and she married out of the family (implying that maybe the Phantomhives have distant relatives still alive), becoming Lady Midford.

According to Yana, Frances takes after their dad while Vincent takes after their mom and the same is true for her kids, meaning Ed takes after her (thus takes after his maternal grandfather) while Liz takes after Alexis.

As far as her relationship with our!Ciel is concerned, here’s what Yana said in the guidebook : “Frances' strength of character is why Sebastian chose her as a role model Ciel should follow”. Since her relationship with Lizzie is sometimes also viewed negatively, I’d like to add that both in the guidebook and on twitter, Yana said that “Liz thinks her mom is kind and strong so she looks up to her mom as a role model she aspires to become”, hence the similar hair style.

TL;DR Yana’s overall description of Frances is that a) she’s kind and strong which is why b) she’s Lizzie’s role model, as well as the role model Sebastian thinks our!Ciel should follow.

Now that this is established, here’s what the canon story gives us, to illustrate Yana’s words. Spoilers for the entire manga series and long read below the cut.

Frances’ introduction

Frances is introduced in ch14 and, boy, what a generally misunderstood chapter by some parts of the fandom. xDD

Contextually, ch14 is Ciel’s birthday, meaning it is also the anniversary of the massacre of the previous household and Madam Red just died, after trying to kill him. For those who might wonder, the guidebook confirmed that our!Ciel was quite saddened by Ann’s death (obviously), so really, what a fun 13th birthday in perspective. Cue Liz and Frances.

The comments on her strength aside, Frances’ introduction is otherwise often misread as her nagging being inappropriate but I beg to differ. As mentioned by @akumadeenglish and @chibimyumi, Yana is Japanese author who likes to explore writing tropes in depth. Though it’s also important to remember that, before the curry arc, Yana didn’t know how long the series would run so everything had less intent, because the story was initially supposed to end quickly.

In other words, Frances’ introduction really is initially to be read as the severe mother-in-law (based on Japanese comical stereotypes) coming to check on how he handles his household, which is why Seb is so stressed out when everything goes bonkers. But that’s only the surface.

Most importantly though, Frances showed up because it is Ciel’s birthday and, as said above, there’s a lot of negative and dreadful memories associated with this day. So...

...let’s change his mind, shall we?

Phantomhives love games and Frances is a Phantomhive too, the last one besides our!Ciel, so she knows her nephew and chooses an activity she knew he wouldn’t be able to resist.

Ch14 also introduces two important facts that are still relevant as plot points, especially as far as the Blue Revenge arc is concerned. The first one is that our!Ciel protected Lizzie from that bear, so Frances said she owes him.

Secondly, as stated by Frances herself, she knows the ropes of the “game” (aka acting as the Watchdog) better than our!Ciel (”you’ve still got a decade to go before you can even think of winning against me”).

In fact, like our!Ciel with real!Ciel, Frances was probably raised as Vincent’s spare [X][X], but compared to our!Ciel who knew next to nothing about his father’s real job until 3 years ago (at the time of ch14), Frances is an experienced veteran...

And that’s why Seb chose her as a role model for our!Ciel.

Therefore it is my opinion that ch14, despite being written back when Sensei didn’t know how long the series would be published, is still relevant as heck when it comes to Frances’ role in the series, aka acting as a mentor for our!Ciel (and for Lizzie, as Yana also stated). Kuroshitsuji is a slow story though, with a lot of build up and it’s why some fans still fail to see how significant Frances is to the plot and to our!Ciel’s development.

Campania arc

Liz is the one who comes to ask our!Ciel to come with her whole family (thus introducing Alexis and Edward) on a cruise, but it’s also very important to note that she conveyed that Frances thought that our!Ciel should take time off of work:

This led some of us fans to theorize that maybe Tanaka used to send updates to Frances about our!Ciel’s wellbeing and how he fared as the Watchdog: the timing of the cruise works well with Frances’ remark, considering that the Queen just sent Charles Grey as a merry punishment for Ciel’s deeds during the Circus arc.

This arc mostly highlights Frances’ bravery and strength : she didn’t hesitate to fight for countless of passengers unrelated to her (something that UT said isn’t very typical of Phantomhives, during Weston)...

More importantly, we finally get into Lizzie’s personal motivations and we indeed have the confirmation that...

...Frances is a big key to Lizzie’s strength, confirming the role model/mentor position that she holds in Lizzie’s eyes. I’d like to also point out that Frances completely trusts in her daughter’s abilities, which highlights a very positive mother/daughter dynamic.

Lizzie’s flashback gives us this very important bit...

...a part that’s unfortunately often overlooked by the fans complaining that Frances is too severe with our!Ciel and Lizzie. This scene however makes way more sense once we find out, after the Weston arc, that Frances lost her mother Claudia (the Watchdog before Vincent) when she was probably about 12 or 13 years old (Vincent being 15 years old then).

To me, this is a big explanation as to why Frances is as serious about training as she is:

Indeed, she lost at least her mom (and later her brother) so, since her daughter is betrothed to the future Watchdog, she wants Liz to be strong enough to survive. All I see in the former panel is a mother saddened by the burden on her child’s shoulder and desperate to imagine that she will be exposed to a lot of danger as an adult.

Side point there, but it’s likely there’s a very relevant reason Frances’ only daughter was betrothed to Vincent’s heir when they were young kids. We’ll dive into it later, but I believe the answer is tied to the Phantomhive lineage introduced in ch103.

Lastly, our!Ciel’s flashback also gave us another important bit to explore...

...which is that our!Ciel directly applies what Frances once told him to his current path for revenge:

Also note the allusion again to Vincent “losing the game”, creating a parallel with Frances telling our!Ciel in ch14 that “he still has a decade to go before he can even think of winning against her”, because he has a lot to learn from her, especially since even he admits that he knows next to nothing about his own family.

The previous spare teaching the spare. How fitting. :D

Weston arc

Even if Frances only appears in this arc during the cricket game, I think there is a lot to be deduced from it. First, I’ve said it long ago and I’ll say it again: I strongly believe Frances played a part into Vincent’s victory during the first blue miracle.

Mind you, Tanaka basically confirmed that Vincent cheated to win (since he knew what Seb and Ciel were up to) and I could totally see Vincent asking his strong little sister to crossdress in order to destroy the Green team. xDD Besides, she certainly seems uneasy whenever the topic is brought up and she also wasn’t fooled by Ciel’s act when he won, haha!

This is silly, but this shows (imo) that Frances and Vincent had a good sibling dynamic, with Frances supporting her brother as the Watchdog as much as she could, which is heartwarming because this means Frances would have no reason not to support her brother’s sons after his death.

Tanaka (who, according to Yana, was already in the household taking care of Vincent and Frances as children) and Frances happily dancing together at the end of the tournament also confirms this. Vincent and Frances having a strong sibling bond would also explain why, despite Claudia’s death, Frances would agree to the betrothal between Lizzie and Vincent’s heir (and would keep it that way, even after Vincent’s death).

All that to say, I’m sure the cricket game confirmed to Frances how similar our!Ciel is to Vincent on some aspects (the second blue miracle attests to that), which probably makes him somewhat predictable (and reassuring?) to her.

One thing that I also believe is important is Ed’s mini flashback during the game. On this topic, Yana has said that she couldn’t draw his backstory in detail, so she’ll probably expand on that in the future, which makes me think that there is some foreshadowing in there.

TBH I think it’s ironic that Ed would consider himself as “ordinary”, considering the whole lineage thing introduced one arc later. xDD But also, if we consider that the tale of Vincent’s first blue miracle is supposed to hint that Vincent and Frances were close as siblings, it’s nice that Ed, who takes after his mom the most, would also have his own flashback about loving and looking up to his sister a lot, despite his small inferiority complex. Considering that Liz sees their mom as her role model though, I guess that means Ed also sees his mom as a role model (though the Campania arc already made that pretty clear).

During the Weston arc, Frances also managed to surprise Sebastian, both by recognizing him (lol) and by stopping him despite his intent to leave, which is, according to the demon himself, no small feat:

Like the usual nagging she does towards Seb though, it’s played for laugh, but as introduced in this post, I believe overused comic relief is a way to foreshadow some hints and we’ll dive into it with the next arc.

Last but not least, during this arc UT commented that our!Ciel was different from his ancestors when he willingly put himself in danger to save Joanne...

...but as presented during the Campania arc, it seems it’s a trait he shares at least with his aunt, furthering the parallels between them and the fact that she would definitely make a good mentor for our!Ciel, because they’re quite alike and can probably understand each other.

Green Witch arc

The only relevant part of this arc with Frances’ character is the introduction of a special lineage in the Phantomhive family by German Shinigamis...

...something that might explain why our!Ciel was able to notice them, when even Seb didn’t. So this begs the question: who else in his family shares this lineage? And obviously, Frances and her kids might !

My personal opinion is that the lineage thing is old and is probably why the Phantomhive family became the Watchdogs, many generations ago. But also, if our!Ciel can notice Shinigamis thanks to it, could it explain why Frances was able to detect and catch Seb during opening ceremony before the cricket game at Weston? And why she always nags him about his appearance (both hair and face)? That remains to be confirmed, but...

...at the very least Bravat in the recent arc confirmed that some gifted people like himself can “sense” that demons are different. Just like animals [x][x], apparently. Bravat is irrelevant besides being a small scale villain though, so I take it as a hint for a more plot significant character, such as Frances, whose nagging behavior towards Seb is way too overused as comic relief anyway.

The lineage thing is yet one more family topic on which Frances probably has answers to give to our!Ciel (the only other people who might know about it being Tanaka and UT).

Bonus : if what Vincent said below about strong-willed women in the family line (from a side story “With Father”) is a hint towards the lineage thing...

...then it’s probably why Vincent wanted Lizzie to be betrothed to his heir in the first place and why Frances agreed.

Blue sect & blue revenge arcs

I already mentioned that Bravat’s innate ability to recognize Seb as a demon was a hint that other characters, like Frances, might be able to guess that Seb is a demon as well, so moving on to ch151 :

This chapter confirms that UT has known Frances since she was very young (which is a hint to the UT = Cedric theory of course), which also explains why, knowing about her strength, UT went on with the whole BD massacre on the Campania despite the presence of our!Ciel and the Midfords on board.

Also, while this chapter neither confirms nor denies if Frances knew about our!Ciel lying about his identity (like Tanaka and UT did), she didn’t show anger nor disbelief about the situation, just her incomprehension.

More than anything, this chapter strongly hints that our!Ciel will at some point seek his aunt for a talk before the final confrontation with UT and real!Ciel, because both are seeking answers to their different questions (our!Ciel needs to find out about UT & his grandmother and the lineage thing, while Frances will want to know what’s the deal between the twins). Speaking of which, a talk between Lizzie and Frances is probably also in order, before Lizzie can choose our!Ciel’s side again.

Lastly, ch151 hinted that Frances doesn’t fully believe that real!Ciel’s return is “natural”...

...and, i mean, why would she? She faced the Bizarre Dolls on the Campania and, for all we know, Edward told her how the Weston arc ended so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ considering that UT has been involved every time, the Midfords probably aren’t far from connecting the dots about real!Ciel being already dead.

To sum up !

Outside of the narrative, Yana said that Frances was Lizzie’s role model and that Seb also wanted her to be the model our!Ciel should follow. And, in my opinion, the entire series so far (as I tried to present in this post) is slowly building up to that because :

our!Ciel and Frances are very similar: both the spares & both survived their parents’ and brothers’ death

both saved folks unrelated to them despite being Phantomhives, meaning that they are a bit alike and can understand each other

our!Ciel literally built his path of revenge following the advice Frances told him about how to counterattack an opponent

Again, to understand who targeted his family, our!Ciel needs to find out about his grandmother, about the lineage and about why his dad had to be killed amongst other things. The only people who can answer him are UT, Tanaka and Frances.

I believe UT and Tanaka are more connected to Claudia, but also both are by real!Ciel’s side for now, making them less accessible for a talk. This leaves Frances for the time being and, as Vincent’s sister and Claudia’s daughter, it seems appropriate that answers would be coming from her.

Also, in shonen series, usually the hero(es) have a mentor figure who will help them “unlock their potential” through training. Kuroshitsuji is not your usual shonen and I doubt our!Ciel can become better at fighting lmao, but Frances can certainly help him better appreciate the massive scale he’s bound to face when seeking his revenge. Especially if it all goes back to events from 3 generations ago and a worldbuilding full of supernatural elements, as well as a world war he doesn’t entirely comprehend yet.

Frances acting as a mentor/role model for her own kids also foreshadows that they’ll follow our!Ciel on his journey and, like him, they’ll definitely need her wisdom/knowledge to be able to reach the necessary level for survival by his side.

As to when all that is going to happen, well, I’d say Frances will probably take on a more active role in the plot when, to quote Seb in ch14, "[our!Ciel] will overconfidently believe that he cannot lose and that it will be necessary for him to carry himself with humility while striving for his goal". Because by then, "an adult who will be firm with him is what he'll need".

If that doesn’t foreshadow the current conflict between the twins, I don’t know what does. xD

Thanks for reading!! As always, let me know if I’ve forgotten anything !

#kuroshitsuji #frances midford #ciel phantomhive #sebastian michaelis #tanaka #undertaker #elizabeth midford #edward midford #2CT #vincent phantomhive #phantomhive dynamics #claudia phantomhive #yana toboso #kuroshitsuji theory #my analysis #as of:#kuro202

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akindaboringp3rson · 2 months

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Drawing I did of what I think Claudia Phantomhive and Undertaker's dynamic would have been like. Ever since the Kuroshitsuji manga said they knew eachother I've been dying to know what they're relationship was to eachother, and what Claudia looked like, drew my headcannon I guess. I kinda merged Undys design with his active duty outfit because I wanted an excuse to draw him in it

#fan art #black butler #kuroshitsuji #undertaker #claudia phantomhive

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secretanimeart · 9 months

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cloudia phantomhive ✨️

#black butler #kuroshitsuji #cloudia phantomhive #claudia phantomhive #black butler fanart #kuroshitsuji fanart #undertaker #undertaker black butler

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abybweisse · 9 months

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People who don't believe in or even Hate the undertaker=cedric theory always have tow reasons, 1,they simp over ut so bad that they can't tolerate him having kids with another person 2, it will make him absurd, because love makes things cheap and not interesting, which I highly disagree with,because if there was anything ever between them I highly doubt it was lovey dovey and healthy, I mean we have ut who is a literal death God and I don't see him as a caring and gentle person like many do at all, and then we have claudia p ( I meant c'mon she is the grandmother of ciel and the mother of vincent, just imagine how deranged and manipulative she herself was) so I really think the relationship between tham was fascinating although I don't think we will ever get a flashback of them because it's not relevant to the current story... just wanted to know ur opinion on this.

Some UT x Claudia/Cloudia thoughts

Well, anon, it's an interesting take, and I agree with certain elements of it, but I have to disagree with the rest.

Some fans might simp over him so much they can't stand the thought of him canonically with anyone, and some might find the "I did it for love" motive to be too cliché and boring. But there are other reasons I've seen for why detractors or critics of the theory don't like it.

Many of them can't handle the idea that a reaper could or would mate with a human. I believe it's entirely possible within the Kuroverse; it's just forbidden. Well, when you are a reaper who has deserted your post, why would you care anymore about the rules? In fact, I think he could have his own motives for mating with humans... like giving his human offspring traits that are supposed to be reserved for reapers. Or even with the intention of decreasing the number of new reapers (if they are reborn to reaper couples, as I theorize). A relatively small chunk of the fandom doesn't want Undertaker to be Vincent's father... because they ship those two guys together. Though, finding out they are father and son might not entirely stop them. 😑

It's possible that a relationship between Undertaker and Claudia/Cloudia wouldn't be the healthiest thing for either of them... but I can totally see it being lovey dovey 🥰. Don't forget that well-written characters aren't so one-sided, and they are allowed to be -- for example -- manipulative and cruel and loving and generous, depending on the circumstances. Undertaker can be gentle and caring; he might have been even more so before she died. Grandma P might have been strong willed and possessing of an evil streak a mile wide, but she also might have fallen head over heels for the most attractive male character in the series, according to Yana-san herself. Don't forget that despite him being cruel and manipulative as queen's watchdog, Vincent does truly love his family -- something else Yana-san has previously said. Why wouldn't people like Undertaker and Claudia/Cloudia produce children like Vincent and Francis/Frances? They seem exactly like the sort of offspring I'd imagine from a pairing like that. They might have had children together for more than one reason, but I believe love is one of them. An act of rebellion might be another. 😏

I sure expect at least one flashback of them together, since it's totally relevant to what's going on. Remember when Sebastian asks our earl just how far back they have to follow the series of events to figure out which culprits to target for revenge? Well, I think our earl's problems largely started with that pairing. Or, more specifically, started with people who didn't appreciate that pairing. I think it's why she died when (and however) she did. I think it adds to the various reasons why the Phantomhives were attacked in 1885. Forget the fans who don't like the pairing; there must be someone in the story that doesn't like it, either. Like the queen... or John Brown....

When Sebastian asks Undertaker what his relationship to the Phantomhive family is, he says he'll leave it up to imagination. But, eventually, I expect him to explain it anyway. And that's when we'd likely get at least a panel or two of them together. We could even get several chapters of them together in a long flashback.

#black butler #kuroshitsuji #undertaker #undertaker is cedric theory #cloudia phantomhive #claudia phantomhive #undertaker x claudia #undertaker x cloudia #claudia x undertaker #cloudia x undertaker #opinions #observation #thoughts #anon asks #i answer #answered asks #jul 19 2023 #flashbacks #backstory

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