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sugar-grigri · 9 months

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Miri does the chair as much as Denji

The chapter confirms the suffering of the hybrids who turn out to be the "weapons" (thank you Fujimoto for confirming at least one of my theories).

But let's go into a bit more detail in this chapter, which only talks about alienation and never about freedom.

What better title than 'A Chair's Feelings', which is a perfect antithesis.

I have the feeling that something specific has happened, let me explain.

Firstly, Fumiko Mifune plays her role as Denji's guard perfectly. She's not protecting him as a person but as the property of the public hunters.

How does she do this? Firstly because she sticks to Denji, but more importantly she seriously disrupts the discussion between Denji and Sugo.

Every time Miri puts an advantage on the table, she questions it. A high position in the church? Chainsaw Man deserves to be guru.

Steak every day? We're getting tired of it, other dishes would be preferable.

The public hunters represent the opressor who uses Denji as a tool. In other words, the entity that Miri is trying to remove Denji from.

But what's particularly interesting is that Miri doesn't demonstrate free will and spits out someone else's arguments.

What's even more fascinating is that Miri thinks he's going to convince Denji with his own arguments, which turns out to be in vain.

Miri seems like someone who operates on principle and has taken on board concepts such as dignity and freedom, which he now intends to protect. Denji doesn't think like that; he needs concrete arguments to engage him.

For example, Miri presents Denji as his liberator. This has no effect on him, as he was unaware of it because it was Pochita who was fighting. Once again, we're projecting onto the figure of Chainsaw Man the image we'd like him to represent here: the first weapon to free himself from the oppressor that was Makima.

But Miri is far from imagining that not only was Denji not conscious, but that he consciously 'saved' Makima by allowing her to become a new version of herself who would be cherished and loved. Because Makima was never the oppressor, she was merely the object of the Japanese government, which surely also used a few weapons.

That's why I think Miri's way of presenting himself is a step backwards. I don't know if it's intentional, but the way his name appears in the dialogue bubbles and the suspension points…… The syntax is important. Miri knows that his name is just a number given to him by his former oppressor.

In fact, that's why he calls Fumiko "sushi-woman" or refers to the students as rubbish; he doesn't think of them as they never thought of him.

Sugo has no intention of forming a relationship with the humans, whom he seems to reject, which clearly shows that weapons are used by humans, not demons.

But Denji grimaces when he sees that he is so easily popular and integrated, and that he would prefer to be rejected.

Miri rejects humans, wanting only to make friends with weapons, while Denji continues to define himself only by humans. One holds a grudge and wants revenge, while the other still prefers integration. Which already demonstrates a fundamental difference.

Swordman's arguments move from the abstract to the concrete. He starts by talking about abstract concepts such as gratitude (Denji saved him), freedom and having a community, and then starts to integrate the concrete.

He already includes food by using the precise line that Denji had used, namely steaks.

Miri isn't interested in the debate about food, deploring Denji's interest in it, and reiterates in a cruder and more brutal form what he was saying before, "being used by bastards", instead of talking about instrumentalisation and freedom. And again, he has to push Denji to confirm this.

It's obvious that Miri, who presents himself as the messenger of the church, either sent by someone or is carrying out someone's order, is contradicting himself and is not yet free. As Fumiko points out.

When Miri confronts Denji, who is still in the chair position, Denji has a more interesting response than it seems: being a chair suits him because he can feel buttocks against his back.

Being a chair means contact, and physical contact with girls. Even if it's a rather perverse line (and far from the most poetic), it shows that Denji is once again interested in being a chair if it allows him to make contact with his own kind. That he has no abstract concept built in like self-esteem or claiming his dignity.

Even becoming a friend is too abstract for Denji, who doesn't react. He will only react when new physical contact is mentioned, reacting unusually comically.

Miri mentions this last argument as a last resort, leaving as if he was already sure it would be pointless. It's as if someone had told him to mention low, childish things like steak and sex because they were the only things that would convince Denji.

There's a clear dichotomy in Miri's speech between the arguments that convinced him (surely used by the church to hire him) and the other kinds of arguments that would convince Denji, whispered to him by someone in the church who knows Denji.

Who knows Denji? No hybrids, they don't have any memories, so surely not Reze.

I like to imagine that it's Kishibe, since the steak and sex with several girls are explicit things that Denji mentioned in front of him when he proclaimed his dream.

He was also the only one to observe the fight between Pochita and Makima. So he's the only one who can tell us about the hybrids' past. If we support his link with the hybrids through Quanxi...

It all ties together!

If we go back to the title... A Chair Feelings. It takes on a whole new meaning.

Note the use of the indefinite article "a" and not "the" when only Denji is doing the chair? Wouldn't a chair be a broader metaphor and category? The chair would be the form of alienation accepted by the weapons. Still not freedom.

In short, Fujimoto questions one thing: is the man who claims to be free so far removed from the man who makes the chair ?

#csm 139 #csm spoilers #chainsaw man #csm part 2 #csm #denji #miri sugo #swordman #kishibe #makima #my thoughts

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stackslip · 10 months

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"you no longer have sole control over chainsaw man". do you think fujimoto could be talking about csm as a brand? i wonder if he would Fire Punchs it. like, follow through to such an extreme that he makes csm wholly unpleasant as a brand.

it's 2:30 am here so forgive me 1) if my answer isn't concise or structured or clear 2) for not providing screenshots/panels to actually illustrate my points. but thank you so much for the ask, i was actually writing about this v question in my chapter 133 analysis post that i didn't manage to save, which led me to feel depressed at the idea of rewriting it, so this is a really good like. jumping point for my larger thoughts on the matter.

so chainsaw man is a brand, yes. it's also so much more. when i talk about chainsaw man in this post (or most of my posts really), please assume that i'm not actually referring to individual characters, whether denji or pochita. you see, chainsaw man has never been an actual person, or even a persona/identity. chainsaw man is an idea, a concept that humans and devils project onto. chainsaw man is simultaneously to different people: a weapon, a messiah, a devil that needs to be put down, a scapegoat, a hero, a midwife to devils in hell, a cute plushie model, an ideal boyfriend, the only person who could ever understand makima, a foreign plot, a political talking point--i could go on forever.

so really, denji has never had control over chainsaw man, bc chainsaw man is nothing more than a mirror to others' hopes and fears! and similarly, pochita never had control over chainsaw man either! think about how people talk about chainsaw man through all of part 1: hero of hell, chaotic force, god, monster, the only person makima could be equal with. then think about how 1) makima literally fought pochita herself, and then said he could never be chainsaw man because he did not fit the idea she had in her head 2) pochita quite literally tells denji that all he wanted was a hug, which everyone took as attacks.

and yes, this 200% fits with fire punch and other works by fujimoto that deal with identity, with public perception, with the "real self" vs your myth/image/reputation, with the question of if there is such a thing as a "real self" especially as the lines begin to blur and you don't know who you are anymore. other works of his that explore these ideas are goodbye eri (self explanatory really), nayuta of the end (kenji's inability to understand his sister's intentions and the world seeing her as nothing but a monster and threat), and to a certain extent That Genderbend Oneshot (dealing explicitly with gendered perceptions).

now to answer specific parts of your question:

do you think fujimoto could be talking about csm as a brand?

fujimoto has been clear about chainsaw man being a brand even in part 1. makima releases the info about chainsaw man defeating the gun devil, and immediately people start making chainsaw man tshirts and posters and buying chainsaws. by the time of part 2 there's merch of him on every corner, fanclubs and gameshows and sandwiches and plushies.

like, follow through to such an extreme that he makes csm wholly unpleasant as a brand.

so you know what else is omnipresent in part 2, long before chapter 133? people thinking that chainsaw man is a danger and a monstrosity and a devil that should be put down. asa expresses contempt about him in her very first chapter, some of the people interviewed in chapter 103 flat out say they think he's dangerous and needs to die (some more aggressively than others). and now we're introduced to the true scale of what's going on--a spectrum that ranges from fanatic devotees to passive consumers all the way to anti-chainsaw man protestors.... which very likely includes that one preacher. just in this chapter we've seen violence erupt between the two extremes of that spectrum! and it's likely that it's going to get worse and worse.

now i'm not saying that a world war might possibly erupt just around chainsaw man and nothing else--i'm saying it might be the spark for other longer simmering tensions: the cold war between multiple countries who were using devils as weapons long before part 1, devils becoming bolder in their attacks on humans, the horseman family conflict, a crumbling social order based on propaganda/fascist structures/absurd poverty, etc etc. add to that the fact that we now know that devils can not only take human forms, but that hybrids are relatively common (see reze, quanxi, the weapon hybrids in general, etc) and that denji himself presents as a human. fujimoto is very inspired by devilman. you know what happens in devilman? humans figure out there are devils wearing human skin around them, panic, and start indiscriminately murdering each other.

and..... the prophecy. "mars will reign" is v commonly accepted to mean that yoru, the fucking war devil, is going to see a drastic increase in power. so yeah there's gonna be war. people are going to turn on chainsaw man more and more. people are going to cling to him more and more. one thing is sure--very few might ever actually see him as denji.

i wonder if he would Fire Punchs it.

i've said it before but one of my favourite things about fujimoto is how he has specific ideas/concepts that he keeps iterating and building upon, learning from experience every time until he makes something he can be wholly proud of. fire punch was his first serialized work, it was a mess in many ways and it's clear that he recognized that and was unsatisfied about it. so even in part 1, you can already see that fujimoto was tinkering with some of his fire punch concepts and trying to execute them in a better way. but from what we have of part 2 so far.... i think fire punch was indeed the prototype, just like the sisters oneshot was the prototype of look back. part 2 has so many more parallels to fire punch than part 1 did, its nge and devilman inspirations are that much more obvious, and some of the characters are flat out plucked right out of fire punch, and just given a makeover and additional depth (coughs coughs sun and iseumi coughs). and yes, it's the fucking end of the world that's coming too.

i don't think he's gonna follow fire punch 1:1--again, fire punch was his first try at a serialized series and its plot is a mess. i've seen people complain about part 2's pacing (the biweekly breaks and the fact that folks aren't bingeing but waiting doesn't help) and call the plot nonsensical but to me it feels a lot more deliberate and thought out than part 1 AND fire punch. like he's setting up puzzle pieces that seem out of place on first glance, and then they start adding up and you see the shape of it--the SCALE of it. in any case, chainsaw man and fire punch do have key thematic and artistic differences, and their themes/ideas do not align 1:1 either. however it's pretty obvious that in some ways, chainsaw man is becoming an answer to some of the questions fire punch asked but never followed through.

#eli talks #csm #chainsaw man #csm musings

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stackslip · 2 years

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im having some makima gender thoughts. idk how much of it is purposeful from fujimoto but..... i have Thoughts on how makima performs gender and especially like. Womanhood as Seduction/as Safety/as a Non Threat, but... only in the context of her manipulations as the control devil, especially towards denji and to an extent, aki. vs how shes portrayed in any other interaction or situation. in her moments of vulnerability and when shes terrifying and when she is NOT interacting with denji or aki or like, people shes specifically trying to manipulate. its not just the framing or lack of fanservice, but she feels and acts in a way thats so much more androgynous.

like, look at these! not just how shes dressed or even how she walks, but how fujimoto frames her in the first page vs the second! if she really were just his femdom fetish, page 2 should present her in a Oooh Femme Fatale way. in page 1 shes playing in the role of feminity that denji expects from her, the role of dainty and non threatening and caring, beautiful girlfriend/mother. and then in page 2 she doesnt have to do that. or even attempt to look threatening. she is herself in page 2, plans going perfectly, beyond harm or understanding.

and like, i really dont think this is fujimoto going "ooooh women fake and manipulative" bc again these moments of danger and of vulnerability.... are so different. because we know makima was raised to be Control, to pull puppet strings while being perceived as saintly and motherly and a damsel in distress and somebody who owns the situation but isnt a threat. because the other female characters are completely different, bar say reze who herself was raised to be the same kind of weapon that makima is. but power, quanxi, kobeni, himeno–not at all the same!

and like, since chainsaw man is about cycles of abuse, about imposed roles and failing to run from them, about the chains that keep you nice and obedient and subservient to the will and beliefs of those who hold your leash... makima is absolutely referenced as this. shes a direct foil to denji. part of her attraction towards pochita is how she perceives his utter lack of chains, how unpredictable he is, how he is not leashed nor holding any leashes. makima drops her gendered mannerisms and role once shes finished breaking denji and pochita comes out. the only other moment where shes framed as such afterwards is when she brings out the weapon hybrids who are devoted to her. after this, she fights with her fists, she is much more open with her emotions, she is nowhere as sexual or gendered even in how fujimoto draws her.

basically what im saying is that just as makima was taught to see every living creature as a dog for her to leash, and herself as beyond relationships or attachments, she was also *taught* to perform gender in certain ways, not just to "seduce" but.... to let people project onto her, to make them trust her and love her and fear her like good dogs. shes holds a mirror to their expectations in order to hide her web of puppet strings, and said expectations are, inevitably, gendered, tied to heterosexuality and ideas of womanhood as inherently feminine, caring, non threatening. but she herself–idk how she views herself in terms of gender. personally, i think shes thinking of how dog owners use body language and treats and orders in order to direct their dogs attention or correct them. and so often abused dogs do not trust human men.

#eli talks #csm #chainsaw man

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