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stainedglassthreads · 1 year

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Something very weird happened last night. I had a dream about writing and posting a Deltarune theory and... it was actually pretty coherent? So may as well post it in the waking world as well. XD

To start with, we can all agree that eyes, their visibility, and what they see seem to be a recurring motif in Deltarune. Kris, Ralsei, and Susie all begin with Kris and Susie hiding their eyes with their bangs, and Ralsei hiding his whole face with his hat. By the end of the chapter, as Susie and Ralsei have both opened up to others more, Susie’s eyes appear consistently on her portrait while Ralsei begins walking around without his hat. The first time Kris decisively shows that they are not a blank slate protagonist and have motives of their own, we get a glimpse of a red eye. Furthermore, in the unnerving landscape leading up to Empty Town, we see eyes carved in the cliffs, accompanied by the riddle ‘Only eyes blinded by darkness can see.’ These eyes later reappear on the bodies of the Titans, in Ralsei’s description of the Roaring and the accompanying cutscene.

The theory in my dream was that, following this theme, all Chapter Bosses would have obscured or unusual eyes. And so far... they seem to! King’s whole face is a spade, giving the impression his eyes are completely hidden by shadows. Queen’s ‘eyes’ are really a visor, which she can display words and symbols on, but which are clearly different from organic eyes because she remarks on having bad facial recognition, to the point she can’t recognize Noelle as Noelle when Noelle’s disguise is literally just a bag over her head.

A lot of people have been drawing fandesigns of the supposed boss of Chapter 3, believed to be named something like ‘Tenna’, ‘Anne Tenna’, or ‘Aunt Tenna’. A lot of these designs will draw heavy inspiration from a strange face found as an easter egg in Spamton’s basement. But when we see the grinning TV at the end of Chapter 2, there are no eyes. It’s quite unlike the smily face associated with Flowey and Chara, their ‘=)’. Really, it reminds me a lot more of Sans’ smile. A crescent, simplistic details of teeth. No eyes. It’s somewhat similar to the face in Spamton’s basement, in that the teeth are in detail, but it’s not squiggly or dimpled like the basement smile-- in contrast, the lines are quite neat. Perhaps it’s because, needing to be fit on a tv screen, Toby had to sacrifice detail. Or perhaps the face in Spamton’s basement was hinting at a different person, or was even a red herring.

So, while we won’t be able to confirm this theory for some time, it could mean something that Chapter 2 closed on just a smile with no eyes, that that was the cliffhanger Toby Fox wanted to leave us on. Did he leave out the eyes for insignificant reasons? Or is it a recurring theme that, like our three protagonists, the bosses of the Dark Worlds all lack visible or conventional eyes? That they all possess ‘eyes blinded by darkness’?

Might the Knight’s design also lack visible eyes?

Guess we’ll just have to wait and see tho.

For theorizing on who the real owner of the pink and yellow eyes could be, if it isn’t Tenna, this theory by @ariadnesweb is a rather interesting one...

#deltarune #deltarune meta #deltarune theory #spade king #chaos king #deltarune king #deltarune queen #tenna #deltarune tenna

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ralexsol · 3 years

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On the Subject of Underverse S2

You read that correctly: this is a post about one of the greatest shows ever created, the Undertale animated series Underverse, written/animated by @jakei95. I have a lot of theories that I’ve been pulling together ever since I watched both Underverse and Xtale (the Underverse prequel series). Maybe one or two have no basis in anything, but for some reason they popped into my head and I’ll stick by them until they’re proven incorrect. I will discuss the possibility of a Geno/Ink fight, Fresh!Ink, XI (you’ll definitely want to read their section!), and the fates of many different characters. This is quite the long post, so buckle up for a long ride.

Let’s begin!

GENO/INK FIGHT:

I’m putting this theory first because it is the least important. At some point in time, I somehow got it into my head that there is supposedly going to be a fight between Geno and Ink. I have no idea where I heard about this, and when I searched for any specific videos or posts about the subject, I found nothing. But I personally think a fight scene between Geno and Ink would be pretty cool, so I’m adding this in here.

FRESK!INK’S EXISTANCE:

This is a more relevant theory. Ever since Jakei announced that Fresh!Ink would be a part of Underverse, I have wondered how he would be incorporated. I don’t know if she means for him to be in the future “Beach Episode” or something more serious. (Of course, I know almost nothing about this supposed “Beach Episode”, which is apparently when Epic!Sans will be showing up, so I really wouldn’t know.) But there is an important thing to remember: Ink and Fresh made a deal in the first season.

Ever since I saw this Underverse - Xtra Scene 2, I have wondered what this “prize” could possibly be. What was Ink’s side of the deal? What did he promise Fresh? Hmm... maybe a new body to take over?

Ink’s body doesn’t have a SOUL- that’s basic “Undertale AU Knowledge 101″. What does this have to do in regards to Fresh? To my best knowledge, the actual parasitic creature True!Fresh feeds off the souls of other creatures to survive. In fact, his soul-feeding would kill his victims if he stayed long enough in one body, but he likes to play it safe and leave his victims alive in case he needs to use their body again. But he wouldn’t need to do this with Ink. Because of Ink’s SOULless nature, Fresh could theoretically feed off his body forever. Some might object that since Ink doesn’t have a SOUL, Fresh wouldn’t be able to feed off him. But then how does Fresh!Ink exist?

So, what was their deal? Fresh watches over the Xtale AU while Ink is gone, and after Cross and X!Chara are taken care of, Ink comes back and lets Fresh take over his body for a little while. There may be something else I’m missing, but the pieces seem to make sense.

XI’S PURPOSE:

For those of you who don’t know who XI is, I suggest you watch this video about Jakei’s Overwrite merch. This is when the character of XI was introduced to us, back on good ol’ April 1st, 2019. Haha, yes, the joke character of XI- funny April Fool’s Day video, a good laugh for everyone. Jakei has made a few comics about XI since then, but overall, XI hasn’t been involved in Xtale or Underverse so far. That has never sat right with me, and I’ve always thought there would be something more to him. I was proven absolutely correct when Xtale - The Movie came out. But before we discuss the little extra scene tagged onto the end of that video, I would like to point out some very interesting facts about XI.

On October 6th, 2019, Jakei posted a traditional speedart. Obviously, the art is gorgeous like always and every time I watch it I wonder if I will ever get to the level of skill she is at. But besides that, there is a very important aspect about this video. In the speedart, Jakei drew two pictures: one of X!Chara and X!Frisk fighting, and one of XI. In XI’s picture, they are depicted in full armor with a magical purple sword & shield.

Hmmm... I wonder who this could possible resemble?

Every time XI is shown, whether it be in comics or artwork, their bangs hang over their eyes. Their armor looks exactly like Kris’s from Deltarune. Heck, they both use a sword and a shield! What does this mean? XI is X!Kris. There is no way to deny this. This is why they are X!Chara’s and X!Frisk’s little sibling. I would also like to point out XI’s silver oval locket. I find it interesting how he has a different piece of jewelry from everyone else- all other important characters in Xtale have a matching golden heart locket. Does XI also have people he has given copies of this necklace to? Perhaps X!Susie and X!Ralsei, if they exist? But XI being X!Kris is only the beginning of this theory. Remember how I mentioned Xtale - The Movie earlier? Take a look at this picture.

This is a five-second frame pegged at the very end of the video, after an entry written in wingdings by Mister XGaster himself. The message is as follows:

Entry Number Eleven: As clear as a reflection in a mirror, I have found the most perfect projection of forbidden visions. Get ready. Your time is coming.

Okay, just whoa. Not only is the entry #11, but the person standing there is XI. Oh, and let’s take a closer look at what they’re holding in their hand.

I knew that silver locket was going to be important. There is no way that XI is not going to play a major part in either Underverse S2 or hmm... maybe a spin-off about the Xtale versions of Deltarune characters? To my knowledge, Jakei has not said anything about her plans after she finishes Underverse. She has her Metadora project, and I am aware that her husband @nyxtheshield is planning out his own Undertale series- someone will need to animate that, and I’m sure she would be able and willing to do the job. She has stated that there will be no seasons of Underverse after S2, and the finale will be 1.0. But that doesn’t mean she won’t make a new series. If she does, will it be about all the Deltarune characters? Will the other Xtale characters show up at certain points in it? Will XGaster play a large part in it? There is no way to know, as the idea of a new show is simply drawn from that there may not be enough time in S2 to fully expand what XI is.

In any case, XGaster states in the entry that “your time is coming”. This could either reference a new show or XI’s appearance in Underverse. I find it extremely interesting how XGaster words his message. “The most perfect projection of forbidden visions.” What does that mean exactly? XGaster has seen something in one of his many visions, obviously. The most perfect image of prohibited sights. XI is a person that stands for something that should not be allowed to exist. That makes sense- XGaster, a man, somehow got pregnant and birthed them, as shown in the Overwrite merch video. The “forbidden visions” might imply that he has seen something quite “cursed”, as us modern Internet-users would say. But then he tells this projection to get ready, because their time is coming. XGaster is telling XI to prepare themself. This just proves that XI and XGaster are tied together very closely, and that if XI does get their own series with X!Ralsei and X!Susie, XGaster will be involved.

Whew! That’s a lot of information to take in all at once. This was the big “theory” I wanted to discuss, so now we will move on to the different fates I believe may befall some of our beloved characters.

INK, FOR GOOD OR FOR WORSE?:

Ah, Ink. One of the true protagonists of Underverse. Remember: a protagonist is not necessarily a hero, just one of the leading characters. It has been seen that his story arc is the most important throughout the entire story. He is the one that inspired XGaster. He is the one that made XGaster’s plan succeed. And he very well might be the one to make it fail.

Wait, you’re asking me. I thought he was on XGaster’s side? What do you mean he will make it fail?

I didn’t want to address whether Ink was going to stick with XGaster or flip until a certain song was posted by Nyx two days ago on December 5th, “Soulless Heart”. If you haven’t listened to it yet, go ahead and click that link because the song is beautiful and absolutely necessary to continue on with this theory! The song is the Underverse 0.5 Ending Theme, and guess who it’s about? You guessed it, our good old buddy chum pal Ink. I’ve been listening to it on repeat since it came out, and it really is incredible. (Nyx, if you’re somehow reading this, I would like to personally congratulate you, because not only is the music amazing but mwah! Your voice is a joy, and I would not have any other singer do the vocals.) But the most important thing about the song is the lyrics. Here’s the first verse.

How long have I been longing

to be free and not broken

in this ocean of hollowness?

I don’t want to be forgotten.

Instantly, the lyrics hit you hard. This is about Ink, though, so you can’t expect anything less. Essentially, the song is about the emptiness that Ink feels without a SOUL. This goes along with one of his main aspects in Underverse. The only reason why he worked with XGaster to make sure XGaster’s game worked was so he could feel more emotions. As a chaotic neutral character, Ink literally only cares about himself and his personal goals. But what is interesting about this song is that he addresses the pain he has caused.

Sacrificial lambs

laid upon my path

now are broken worlds

killed by senseless wrath.

Ink knows that he has hurt people. I mean, in the present timeline when 0.5 is to be set, Ink’s actions just caused Error to literally “pull the plug” and destroy all the AUs. (Although, how many AUs were actually destroyed is impossible to determine, because there are still multiple Sanses that will be incorporated into S2 that were residing in their AUs at the time of their supposed destruction.) Ink knows that this is his fault. And now that XGaster has won, Ink will be receiving all those emotions he wanted! In the S2 teaser, which was released on the original Underverse 0.5 release date (the episode was unfortunately delayed due to issues with Nyx’s distributor, RouteNote), shows something very important.

Look at those vials in his hand. Those aren’t just colored vials. Well, they are, but their colors are especially important. Look at their specific colors: orange, yellow, and amber. Previously, Ink’s vials have been seen as very straightforward: roy g biv, that sort of thing.

You have one or maybe two variations, although in this picture there seems to be about four different aqua vials. But there certainly isn’t an amber vial. This goes to show that XGaster followed through on his promise, and Ink has a lot more variations in his color-coded emotion vials. The obvious conclusion from this is that he can feel a lot more things than he thought was possible- including guilt. With his newfound feelings, he could realize that what he did wasn’t just wrong, it was horrible. He might start to blame himself for getting all the AUs destroyed, which in turn might result in a betrayal of XGaster. With his emotions, he would become a real good person. But ultimately, without XGaster’s Overwrite abilities, Ink’s new emotions will fade and he will return to be the same old Ink as before. He will no longer understand why he sacrificed his emotions, and the cycle will start anew. Ink will never be truly happy, because being happy will always mean the suffering of others.

Or, Ink will stick with XGaster. It would be the same fate, after all; if the heroes defeat XGaster, Ink will still lose those emotions. This, though, might leave him feeling bitter and even more willing to do anything to get what he wants, which could potentially lead to him becoming a real villain. Perhaps XGaster isn’t the final boss of Underverse. Maybe the one to start everything will be the one to finish everything.

XGASTER AND UT!GASTER:

This wouldn’t be a real theory post without discussing our favorite fanfiction writer, would it? And yes, XGaster is literally a fanfiction writer. He has symptoms of OCD concerning the world-building of his universe and he just loves to add as much angst as humanly (or monsterly) possible. It just so happens that he lives in his own created universe, so his creations have the pleasurable chance at getting revenge.

Now, there are obviously two ways that Underverse can go: XGaster succeeds, or XGaster fails. This doesn’t necessarily mean that this will be the ending of S2. As I mentioned above, perhaps XGaster will be defeated at the end of 0.9 and 1.0 will be about everyone trying to stop Ink from taking the Overwrite SOUL for his own, I don’t know. In any case, I don’t really have anything to discuss about XGaster specifically, but I am pretty sure I know what his last scene will be if he happens to lose.

It is shown in the Underverse S2 Prologue - Owners that XGaster and UT!Gaster spent a lot of time together in the Void between the events of Xtale and Underverse. Not only do they hold an entire conversation together in Owners, but in Underverse 0.1 when Sans is hit in the head with a ball, he has a vision of the two of them standing together.

In XGaster’s and UT!Gaster’s conversation in Owners, UT!Gaster tells XGaster that he will fail in his quest for perfection. XGaster brushes him off because he’s an egotistical prick, yadda yadda. But this conversation is important because I believe it will parallel the ending of XGaster’s quest. In the end, UT!Gaster will approach his old Void-buddy and tell him to just give up on his pointless venture. XGaster will turn to dust after saying something like, “I will never give up”, and then we have Ink going on a rampage. That’s pretty much all I have to say on them, but I thought it would be worth adding.

DREAM AND NIGHTMARE:

Lastly, we have the brothers. As with XGaster and UT!Gaster, I don’t have much to add with them. But I do believe they will both play a major role in S2. They will be the overseers of the battle to come. Out of all the characters in the Undertale fandom, they are the most omnipotent. They are the protectors of the Tree of Feelings, which is one of three trees to give the Multiverse life. In Underverse 0.4, when X!Chara accused Nightmare of “watching us all this time as if we were part of a show”, Nightmare responded by saying:

Of course, Nightmare mostly means himself, Error, and Ink. Dream is much more active in helping people be happy, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t on the same god-tier level as his brother. Dream could sit back and watch the world tick, but he chooses not to because that goes against his morals.

In other words, Dream and Nightmare will probably affect the outcome of Underverse more than any other characters. They’re both pissed about what Error did: all those people that Dream cared about were murdered, and Nightmare can no longer generate negative feelings from innocents. They both have invested interest in this Multiverse war now, and their powers will certainly come to the forefront.

I believe that at the end of the story, the Multiverse will essentially go back to the exact way it was before Xtale was invented. XGaster will be dead, the Xtale characters will be put back in their AU, the other AUs will be restored, and at the end of it all, Dream and Nightmare will be once again pitted against one another. We may even see an alliance between them during Underverse S2 to stop XGaster, but afterwards, they will reestablish their rivalry. Unless the Omega Timeline comes into play, which it very well might, I don’t see the two brothers reconciling.

CONCLUSION:

Thank you everyone who took the agonizingly long time to read this! I hope this shed some light on certain characters (especially XI) and encourages to make some of your own theories. Stay safe and good night!

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uselessundertalefacts · 5 years

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I do want to say something about autistic characters in undertale and deltarune actually (cw for ableism)

In both games, but especially deltarune, there are a lot of characters who are outsiders. People call characters like Papyrus, Lancer, Kris, and Susie weird, strange, and childish, and say that “no one really likes [them]”. They’re isolated, and in most cases have few friends who aren’t related to them.

And in one way or another, all of them have neurodivergent traits. Papyrus has an idiosyncratic way of speaking, has special interests, and wears the same outfit for weeks. Lancer has an idiosyncratic way of speaking like Papyrus, strange interests like cartoon sound effects, and gets lost easily. Kris alternates between being sensory avoidant (dislikes hugs) and sensory seeking (huffs markers, sticks their fingers through park bench holes), and seems to be mostly nonverbal. Susie has two incidents that closely resemble meltdowns (the scene outside Alphys’s classroom and her fight with Lancer), eats non-food items (this could be partly a sensory thing), and struggles with solving puzzles, which could indicate a learning disability.

Looking at all of this together, it feels natural to say that all of these characters are coded as autistic. It isn’t just that they have autistic traits, it’s that in-universe, other characters treat them the way autistic people are often treated in real life. It’s the same reason mutants in the X-Men universe are considered to be LGBT+ coded. It isn’t that they are literally LGBT+, it’s that they fill the same social role. I don’t just relate to characters like Papyrus and Kris because they have DSM-V autistic traits, I also relate to feeling lonely and isolated and trying to get people to like me, or not bothering with other people at all.

So why does this matter? Well, I think it’s worth noting how Undertale’s approach to portraying autistic characters is different from Deltarune’s. It’s not a coincidence that Papyrus’s interests are mostly things people consider childish, or that he wears a costume. That’s a pretty common stereotype. Autistic people are assumed to be childish and wear weird clothes. I wouldn’t call Papyrus negative representation, but I won’t pretend that there are no harmful stereotypes being invoked here. (Undertale generally uses stereotypes to build its characters all the time, Alphys is a great example of this, but that’s a whole other discussion.)

Deltarune, on the other hand, has three autistic coded characters, and all of them are main characters, and all of them are completely different. None of them easily slot into a stereotype. The ways Susie and Lancer are undermined by society is the driving force behind them becoming friends so quickly, and their friendship is the entire plot of Chapter 1’s dark world section. When we aren’t in the dark world, we’re focused on Kris and their isolation in Hometown. It would be completely fair to say that Deltarune, or at least Chapter 1, is About how neurodivergent kids are left behind by society. Basically Deltarune doesn’t just use autistic coding to build its characters, it has Something to Say about how autistic people are treated in real life.

Part of the reason I’m bringing this up is because I think it’s really cool that Deltarune goes there. It’s not uncommon to have stories about a friend group of “weird” kids against the world or anything, but I haven’t really seen that in the context of a video game except for maybe in MOTHER 3, which seems to be a big influence on Hometown. I also want to bring it up because I think we need to think more critically about how we talk about autistic coded characters in fandom. I’m hardly the first person to bring this up, but this fandom has a big problem with infantilizing Papyrus and treating him like a symbol of purity and innocence, which kind of sucks when real disabled adults are objectified this way in inspiration porn. There’s also a lot to be said about how characters like Kris are (often literally) demonized for having neurodivergent traits, like not wanting to be hugged. Treating neurodivergence like a horror movie trope is another pervasive real life problem with serious consequences. (This doesn’t affect autistic people quite as much as it affects, for example, psychotic people, but plenty of charity organizations have run ads that frame autism as an evil force that steals children and ruins marriages while deliberately invoking horror movie tropes, so it’s relevant.)

I don’t know how to end this, so.... I’d talk more about Alphys but she deserves her own post. Maybe one day.

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suzyundertale · 5 years

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Deltarune Theory - The Red SOUL

It’s pretty clear that, in Deltarune, the person we are “playing” as is not Kris directly, but the red SOUL that is controlling them.

After all, when Kris tosses the SOUL out of their body, we can still control it.

So then, the question is... Who IS the red SOUL?

In this post, I’ll go over several theories, their main points, and evidence for them and against them.

It’s not Kris’ SOUL.

With the information we have, it’s nearly impossible for this SOUL to belong to Kris.

First of all, in the Dark World, Kris’ description describes them as follows:

“Body contains a human SOUL.” Not “THEIR” human SOUL, “A” human SOUL. That’s just about the most suspicious-sounding way you could possibly word that.

Second, the first time we go to save the game, a save file titled “Kris” is overwritten by one with the chosen name of the “creator”.

And, throughout the epilogue, everyone keeps pointing out how strange they’re acting, how they aren’t like themself...

They’re acting unlike themself because they aren’t themself - they’re being controlled by someone else.

... Someone who knows some things Kris doesn’t.

(Because of the above two, I’m going to assume that all of the dialogue choices come from the red SOUL.)

The SOUL also seems a little, um, opinionated:

And they apparently don’t know who Rudy is, when Kris definitely does.

So... who could they be?

Theory 1: The Player (“Player Theory”)

This is probably the most popular theory going around right now. In this theory, the red SOUL represents us, the “player”, as an actual in-game entity.

This is an understandable interpretation, as Undertale is known to be very meta at times. It’s not totally unthinkable that ‘we’ exist as an actual force in-universe.

Evidence against Player Theory

There’s a significant amount of evidence that the red SOUL has their own personality and is their own person, such as:

They have their own opinions on Mew Mew 2.

They can’t play the piano. I’d imagine a lot of players can, so it’s strange to put this here if they’re meant to be the player. It would be odd to exclude a significant amount of the player base (including Toby himself) for, um, literally no reason.

Support for Player Theory

According to Deltarune’s official website, Deltarune is a game “intended for people who have completed UNDERTALE.” Therefore, the “player” is supposed to know everything that happens in Undertale.

Therefore, these interactions make sense:

... Because the player knows who Sans is, and they know that Alphys and Undyne were dating in Undertale.

...However, there is someone else who knows all the same things about the Undertale universe that the player does.

Theory 2: Frisk

From Undertale, we know that Frisk has a red SOUL. This theory says that the red SOUL present in Deltarune is also the very same Frisk from the Undertale universe.

Evidence against Frisk Theory

Toby has said this about Deltarune in relation to Undertale:

...so, that shoots a bit of a hole in this... but. Hear me out.

[EDIT]

On February 14th 2019, a FAQ section was added to the official Deltarune website. One of the questions is:

Basically confirming that there are “connections” between the Undertale and Deltarune universes.

So... I guess there isn’t any evidence against this theory, now.

[END EDIT]

Support for Frisk Theory

Like the “player”, Frisk knows everything that happened in Undertale. They’re friends with Sans, so they would be excited to see him. They know Alphys and Undyne are dating, so they would be eager to ask Undyne about her girlfriend. And they don’t know who Rudy is.

And, of course... there’s the intro sequence.

Gaster prompts us to create a “vessel” to hold our SOUL...

A vessel that just so happens to always have exactly two stripes on their shirt.

However, the person that interrupts the intro - Chara, if you remember my post about it - doesn’t seem very happy about this whole vessel thing.

... Which would make sense if the red SOUL is actually Frisk. Frisk is Chara’s friend, Chara wouldn’t let Gaster suddenly try to turn them into a whole different person. So... What if Chara was actually trying to say “Your name is Frisk”, but was cut off?

After all, in Undertale, there’s a scene that this is likely meant to be a parallel to...

... And, of course, after beating the game, we know the speaker of this line is Asriel, and he was saying, well, “My name is Asriel”.

Speaking of Chara... the voice of the narration in Deltarune is suspiciously similar to Undertale’s, and at some points, seems to almost intentionally call back to Undertale.

(In case you’re not convinced by the above one - it matches word-for-word in the official Japanese translations, as well.)

...Which would make sense if, not only are we playing as Frisk once again...

...But Chara is the narrator once again, as well.

Of course, Frisk themselves could just as easily be the narrator. It’s difficult to tell at this point. I’m personally leaning towards Chara, though.

Also, it’s probably just a bizarre joke, but this line would make a lot more sense if the person controlling Kris was actually a child:

My favorite thing about this theory is that if it is true, Toby would have tricked us into thinking Frisk is actually an in-game representation of the player not once, but twice.

Theory 3: Chara and Asriel’s Combined SOUL

This theory proposes that the SOUL is a combined human-monster soul - specifically, Chara and Asriel’s.

It’s said in Undertale that Asriel absorbed Chara’s SOUL, and then died. However, it’s never explicitly stated that the SOUL shattered. We know that a human SOUL can persist after death presumably indefinitely if preserved properly, and a boss monster SOUL can survive outside the body for a few seconds... But we don’t know how long a combined human-monster SOUL could last outside its body.

Evidence against Combined SOUL Theory

There’s no evidence in the game that the SOUL belongs to two people. In Undertale, Asriel states that when he and Chara were sharing a SOUL, control was split between them, and they were both actively fighting for control over their body.

There isn’t any instance of any sort of “internal argument” within the SOUL. Unless you interpret the differing dialogue choices as such, but even so, you’d think there’d be more of a hint that there’s actually two people fighting for control. But who knows, maybe it’ll only become more obvious in later chapters...?

Support for Combined SOUL Theory

The red SOUL is... odd. And I don’t mean their personality, I mean the SOUL itself.

(screenshot and gif from this post, which is what inspired this theory!)

When Kris removes the SOUL from their body... It glows red and white. White, of course, is the color of a monster SOUL.

While it could just be a visual effect... It’s at least one more thing to be suspicious about.

And, like I touched on before, we never know what exactly happened to Chara and Asriel’s combined SOUL. Some people think it could even be the red heart in this machine in Undertale’s True Lab:

... and, with this theory... perhaps that machine might be somehow connected to the Deltarune universe.

Theory 4: Suzy

No, not Susie, Suzy! The one from Undertale. If you don’t know who I’m talking about, read this post.

This is my personal favorite theory, even though it’s quite unlikely. The premise of this theory is that Suzy is actually a human, and the red SOUL belongs to her.

Of course, a lot of people think “Suzy” is simply the Undertale universe version of “Susie”. That’s fair, and that theory certainly fits in with “fast approaching”. But I’m going to assume they’re completely different people for the sake of this theory. (Plus, why would Susie be the only character with a different name from their Undertale counterpart..?)

Evidence against Suzy Theory

This theory doesn’t have an explanation as to why the red SOUL knows about Alphys and Undyne’s relationship. (If you can come up with one, please tell me.) I mean, even though she exists in the Undertale universe, they only get together at the very end, and Suzy almost certainly wasn’t there. But who knows. Maybe she’s been shipping them the whole time. /s

Also, as much as I love the concept, it is quite unlikely that Suzy is a human. I do have a couple of explanations for it as you’ll see below, but I will admit that it’s still kind of a stretch. Still, what’s theory-making without a little fun?

Support for Suzy Theory

No matter whether or not Suzy ends up being the red SOUL, or even a human, she has to be in the full version of Deltarune. And, considering what we know... It’s not a stretch at all to think she might be in the very first chapter.

“Don’t Forget.” The title of the main theme of Deltarune is a phrase that is specifically associated with Suzy. In Undertale, you can only see the “don’t forget” note in Sans’ lab after speaking with Clamgirl and, consequently, learning about the existence of “Suzy”. Therefore, the phrase “don’t forget” is intrinsically linked to her.

This note also gives us another hint about who Suzy is: She knows Sans.

... Hm.

And, of course, her knowing Sans in combination with the fact that you only learn about her when you have certain “fun” values... it’s likely she knows Gaster, or at least of him.

Okay, I think you see where I’m going with this...

Now, for the “Suzy is a human” part. I’ve actually had this theory since before Deltarune, but I never made a post about it or anything.

In Undertale’s No Mercy route, Sans says something quite... interesting.

This line of dialogue implies that Sans knows or knew someone with Determination. A lot of people theorize that this line is referring to Gaster, who may have injected himself with Determination, which is a valid theory... However, I think Sans knew a human. Specifically, a human girl named Suzy.

Sans also knows a lot about concepts such as “LOVE” and “EXP”, and has secret passwords for “time travelers”. This implies that not only did he know someone with Determination, but likely with someone with the ability to “saving”, “loading”, and “resetting”... and, combined with what he talks about in his fight about “knowing our type”... it’s likely this person did a “no mercy run” in the past, or at least killed a significant amount of people.

Wait. If Suzy is a human, and she’s still alive in Undertale... How does she manage to survive in a world of monsters who need just one more human SOUL to break the barrier?

Well.

I have a few theories...

Sub-theory 1: LOVE

I mentioned before that if Suzy is a human, it’s possible, even likely, she has high LOVE.

And, well..

Apparently, once you reach 20 LOVE, you become completely unrecognizable as a human being. Even to the king of all monsters, who would otherwise even compare Frisk to his own dead human child.

Sub-theory 2: “Goner” form

Clamgirl’s “fast approaching” line shows us that, apparently, some people can switch between their “normal” forms and their “goner” (grey) forms at will.

If a human had this ability... perhaps their SOUL would also turn grey? Then it would appear more like a monster SOUL than a human one. Sure, it would still be upside-down, but it’s an interesting thing to think about.

Speaking of “goner” forms...

In the files, Deltarune’s vessel creation sequence is called “GONERMAKER”.

Sub-theory 3: She’s not fully human

Remember earlier how I mentioned how the red SOUL glows red and white in the ending sequence, and how that could possibly be a hint towards the SOUL being not fully human? Well, that could apply here, as well. It’s possible Suzy could be half-monster, but we don’t even know if that’s a possible thing. I’m thinking that perhaps she could have had her SOUL infused with monster magic or dust or something of the like, since it’s likely Gaster experimented with SOULs at some point.

Sub-theory 4: Someone is hiding her/concealing her identity as human

Since Clamgirl talks about Suzy being her neighbor’s daughter, it’s possible her parent is protecting her or even hiding her. I’m not sure how exactly this would work, but it’s a possiblity.

There’s also a few other things I’d like to mention about this theory that I couldn’t fit in:

1. Clamgirl tells Frisk that “In life’s grand scheme, [Suzy] might be why [they] came here in the first place”. This could be implying that Frisk knows Suzy from the surface, which would support the theory that she’s a human. However, it could just as easily be Clamgirl going on about how Frisk and Suzy are fated to meet, especially considering Clamgirl’s phrasing makes it seem like Frisk and Suzy haven’t met before.

2. Clamgirl’s “Fast approaching” line only appears in the Switch version of Undertale, which was released less than two months before chapter one of Deltarune came out. There are 3 possibilities you could take from this:

a. Clamgirl was lying (unlikely)

b. Deltarune’s release was a distraction from some more content coming soon that will actually feature Suzy

c. Suzy is in chapter one of Deltarune.

Conclusion

Anyway, those are the four theories I could come up with on who the red SOUL could be. It could also be a completely new character. Who knows.

Well, now that you’ve read this far... I’d actually like to gather some data. I’m curious what people think the most likely outcome is after reading this. If you could take a few seconds to vote on this poll, I’d really appreciate it!

#deltarune #deltarune spoilers #analysis

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kazarinn · 6 years

Text

Some comments on Deltarune’s official Japanese translation, and the process of translating Undertale and Deltarune to Japanese, from creator Toby Fox and translator Keiko Fukuichi.

tobyfox (@tobyfox)

(x) Incidentally, this year I’ve been taking the time to properly study Japanese, so I was actually able to have a direct hand in the Japanese translation. For instance, making Susie use “ore” for her first-person pronoun and Lancer “boku-sama” for his was my idea. (Oho.)

Keiko Fukuichi (@keiko_fukuichi)

(x) (quoting above tweet) Even back when I was translating Undertale, I actually mistook Toby for someone who was already intimately familiar with Japanese...That’s how committed to the Japanese version he was, it was quite amazing. (And now, in the space of only one year, he’s already become “intimately familiar” with it, to the point it blew me away...)

(x) When we were consulting with @tobyfox, he wanted to make Susie come off as a delinquent who talks dirty and aggressive, so he said "I would like it if she used 'ore'," and I was a little worried because "the game uses pixel sprites, so the players might mistake her for a boy." In the end we decided "let's just try it for now," and that turned out to be for the best. We managed to get her across as a girl, and I think we managed to create the best possible depiction of Susie in Japanese.

(x) As for Lancer's "boku-sama", @tobyfox requested that in the very early stages and I immediately responded with "oh, that's a great idea!" And then when I finally started translating it with "boku-sama" in mind, I figured "if he calls himself 'boku-sama', he should probably call his father 'papa-ue'", and it naturally flowed from there.

(x) For the author to consider the Japanese version so deeply and make suggestions, and for me to receive inspiration from that and come up with ideas so easily...These kinds of experiences don't come very often. It's always so exciting to work with @tobyfox, and it makes me want to put in the maximum range of my abilities. I can't even explain how in only 140 characters...

(x) And I think the really amazing part about @tobyfox is that after very clearly delineating "I want you to do this," he then follows it up with "...but you're the one translating this, so please use my opinion only as reference" and places so much trust in me in regards to the actual translation work. It's just the right amount of involvement, not too much or too little, it's really humbling.

(x) And so with that, I can put everything I have into it with full peace of mind, and every time I come up with an idea it leads to even more ideas. He's a wonderful person who can bring those kinds of abilities out of people.

(x) He just released a post saying that "I may not be able to succeed because I have no experience successfully directing a team," but the first thing that came to my head was an emphatic "no, no, don't worry about it, you'll be fine!"

(x) I sound like a Twitter bot singing praises to Toby...but I'm just being honest about what it was like!

TL notes:

Understanding these tweets fully probably requires some context. Undertale's official Japanese translation was released in August 2017, a whole two years after the original game released, during which time a considerable amount of people had already played the unofficial Japanese translation patch. As a result, by the time the official localization had released, there were already a number of people who had developed very particular ideas about how they believed Undertale should be translated, and would often disparage the official localization for not conforming to their standards. (This might be an uncomfortably familiar scenario to many of you who have dealt with fan translations.) In rebuttal, it would often be pointed out that 8-4, the localization company behind it, worked very closely with Toby to make sure the translation respected his vision; in rebuttal to that, it would often be claimed that "Toby doesn't understand Japanese, so he wouldn't know the difference anyway.”

The Deltarune official Japanese localization was released simultaneously with the English.

Susie uses the "ore" first-person pronoun, which is a pronoun generally used by very assertive or aggressive characters, and is very rarely seen in use by female characters in Japanese media. Lancer's "boku-sama" is the boyish, semi-polite boku pronoun combined with the haughty (when applied to oneself, anyway) -sama suffix, meaning that he has a childish demeanor mixed in with high-and-mightiness. Lancer refers to his father as "papa-ue", which again indicates childishness, combined with a sense of the kind of respect fitting for a royal family. (In both cases, there’s a deliberate sense of paradox.)

Fukuichi's concern about Susie is a legitimate one. As stated above, the "ore" pronoun is rarely used by female characters; most Japanese players won't have the benefit of intuitively knowing that "Susie" is a feminine name, and the Japanese language doesn't often use third-person pronouns like "she" or "her". There is a very strong likelihood that in the absence of other factors a Japanese player could legitimately assume her to be male on first sight, so Fukuichi is indirectly implying that she was looking for a way to make it clear that Susie is female without compromising her characterization by making her seem stereotypically feminine. The translation in the game has her use the casual-feminine "atashi" first-person pronoun in her first line to Kris, before she reveals her true colors of aggression and promptly switches to "ore" for the rest of the game (although she does drop a few instances of “atashi” when caught particularly off-guard).

For more context, Japanese first-person pronouns have historically been rather overly serious business among Japanese Undertale fans. There was an infamous debate over what pronoun Sans would use, primarily between the aggressive-assertive "ore" and the boyish-polite "boku" (the latter group argued that Toby had apparently made a joke once centering around it, while the former group assessed that "boyish" and "polite" didn't quite fit Sans). Things came to a head when pre-release screenshots for the official localization revealed it to be "oira", an uncommonly-used variant of "ore" that has a twang of laid-back country bumpkin. This threw everyone off guard, and the resulting fallout was termed the "Oira Shock" by fans. (Toby eventually admitted that he didn't know much about Japanese pronouns at the time and that he didn't expect anyone to actually take the "boku" thing seriously, but that 8-4 properly explained the meaning of "oira" to him.)

#Undertale #Deltarune #Toby Fox #Keiko Fukuichi

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