#sansaposts
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How the Show Gave Sansa 'What She Really Wants' & How the GA Got It So Wrong - The Dialogue Already Proved What Sansa Wanted
This post got really long
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Lord Glover: "We did not choose you to rule us, my Lady. But perhaps we should have."
Lord Royce: "The Knights of the Vale came here for you, Lady Stark.
Sansa: "You're very kind, my lords. But Jon is our king. He's doing what he thinks is best."
Sansa: "I warned Jon this would happen. That he couldn't leave the North and expect it to just sit and wait for him like Ghost."
Arya: "He didn't. He trusted you to hold it for him."
Sansa: "Well, he's not making it easy. The Northern lords are proud."
Arya: "They were insulting Jon and you just sat back and listened."
Sansa: "I listened to their complaints which is my responsibility as Lady of Winterfell."
Sansa: "Winterfell didn't just fall into our hands. We took it back. And the Mormonts, and the Hornwoods, and the Wildlings, and the Vale. All of us working together."
Arya: "And if Jon doesn't come back, you'll need their support. So you can work together to give you what you really want."
Sansa: "How can you even think such a horrible thing?"
Arya: "You're thinking it right now. You don't want to be. But the thought just won't go away."
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Sansa: "I came here everyday when I was a girl, prayed to be somewhere else. Back then I only thought about what I wanted, not about what I had. I was a stupid girl."
Sansa: "It's a pretty picture." *then she walks away*
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Littlefinger: "I want you to be happy. I want you to be safe."
Sansa: "I am safe. I'm at home surrounded by friends. I have Brienne to protect me from anyone who would harm me."
Littlefinger: "What about happy? Why aren't you happy? What do you want that you do not have?"
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Jon: "You're defending her? You?"
Arya: "I'm defending our family. So is she."
Jon: "I'm her family, too."
Arya: "Don't forget that."
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Sansa: "What about the North? It was taken from us and we took it back. And we said we'd never bow to anyone else again. What about the North?"
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Sansa: "That doesn't mean I want to kneel to someone--"
Arya: "We're family. The four of us. The last of the Starks."
Jon: "I've never been a Stark."
Sansa: "You are. You're just as much Ned Stark's child as any of us."
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Jon: "She's everyone's queen now."
Arya: "Try telling Sansa."
Arya: "Jon. She knows who you are. Who you really are. You'll always be a threat to her. And I know a killer when I see one."
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Tyrion: "Do you think I'm the last man she'll execute? Who is more dangerous than the rightful heir to the Iron Throne?"
Tyrion: "Why do you think Sansa told me the truth about you? She doesn't want Dany to be queen."
Jon: "She doesn't get to choose."
Tyrion: "No. But you do. And you have to choose now."
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Sansa: "Jon will be Warden of the North so a good relationship seems likely."
Tyrion: "I don't expect him to spend much time here going forward."
Tyrion: "With Jon in the Capital, you'll be the true power in the North."
Sansa: "What are you worried about? Jon's taking our army with him, your queen still has her dragons--"
Tyrion: "She's your queen, too."
Sansa: "I don't want Jon to go down there. The men in my family don't do well in the Capital."
Tyrion: "No, but as your brother once told me, he's not a Stark."
*cue Sansa's "hating Jon and wanting the Northern power for herself" expression*
6x10 forehead kiss scene:
Jon: "I'm having the lord's chamber prepared for you."
Sansa: "Mother and Father's room? You should take it."
Jon: "I'm not a Stark."
Sansa: "You are to me."
8x01 Sansa solar scene:
Sansa: "You didn't tell me you were going to give up your crown."
Sansa: "Did you bend the knee to save the North? Or because you love her?"
7x02 Jon accepts Dany's invitation:
Sansa: "Have you forgotten what happened to our grandfather? The Mad King invited him to King's Landing and roasted him alive."
Sansa: "She is here to reclaim the Iron Throne and the Seven Kingdoms. The North is one of those Seven Kingdoms. This isn't an invitation, it's a trap."
Jon: "I know it's a risk but I have to take it."
Sansa: "Then send an emissary, don't go yourself."
Jon: "Daenerys is a queen. Only a king can convince her to help us. It has to be me."
Sansa: "You're abandoning your people. You're abandoning your home."
Jon: "I'm leaving both in good hands."
Sansa: "Whose?"
Jon: "Yours. "
*cue Sansa's "power hungry" expression*
Jon: "You are my sister. You're the only Stark in Winterfell. Until I return, the North is yours."
7x03: Sansa & Bran in the Godswood:
Sansa: "I wish Jon were here."
Sansa: "You're Father's last living trueborn son. You're Lord of Winterfell."
7x04 Arya and Sansa reunite in crypts:
Arya: "Jon left you in charge."
Sansa: "He did. I hope he comes back soon. I remember how happy he was to see me. When he sees you...his heart will probably stop."
Sansa: "How did you get back to Winterfell?"
Arya: "Long story. I imagine yours is, too."
Sansa: "Yes. And not a very pleasant one."
Arya: "Mine either. But, our stories aren't over yet."
Sansa: "No, they're not."
8x06 Starks saying goodbye:
Sansa: "I wish there had been another way. Can you ever forgive me?"
Jon: "The North is free thanks to you."
Sansa: "But they lost their king."
Jon: "Ned Stark's daughter will speak for them. She's the best they could ask for."
*cue Sansa's "I won" and "power hungry" expression*
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Sansa: "Where's Jon?"
Greyworm: "He is our prisoner."
Sansa: "So is Lord Tyrion. They were both to be brought to this gathering."
Greyworm: "We will decide what we do with our prisoners. This is our city now."
Sansa: "If you look outside the walls of your city, you will find thousands of Northmen who will explain to you why harming Jon Snow is not in your interest."
Asha: "I swore to follow Daenerys Targaryen."
Sansa: "You swore to follow a tyrant."
Asha: "She freed us from a tyrant. Cersei is gone because of her and Jon Snow put a knife in her heart. Let the Unsullied give him what he deserves."
Arya: "Say another word about killing my brother and I'll cut your throat."
8x06 Jon and Tyrion 2nd jail cell scene:
Tyrion: "Sansa and Arya wanted you freed but they understand our new king needs to make peace. No one is very happy."
8x06 Sansa asks for Northern independence:
Sansa: "I love you, little brother. I always will and you'll be a good king. But tens of thousands of Northmen fell in the Great War defending Westeros. And those who have survived have seen too much and fought too hard ever to kneel again. The North will remain an independent kingdom. As it was for thousands of years."
*cue Arya's "That power hungry bitch, I knew she wanted to rule all along, I'mma get her" expression*
Sansa didn't want power. Sansa didn't want the Iron Throne or to even rule the North. She wanted her home (aka Winterfell/the North/safety), her family's safety (including Jon), and she wanted the North to be independent. The only power she wanted was to ensure that what happened to their family never happened again, to their family or to any other Northern family. And to herself. She respected Jon and knew he would be a good ruler, before she found out the truth of his parentage. His bastard status or their childhood relationship (or lack thereof) didn't matter to her in the least.
Jon: "Do you think I'm Joffrey?"
Sansa: "You're as far from Joffrey as anyone I've ever met."
Jon: "Thank you."
Sansa: "You're good at this, you know."
Jon: "At what?"
Sansa: "At ruling."
Jon: "No."
Sansa: "You are. You are. They respect you, they really do, but you have to-- Why are you laughing?"
She wanted his respect in return and for him to listen (not because she thought she was the smartest person on the planet but because she had valuable advice/input that could help him and them all), both of which she got. She didn't want to be the one who rules them all. That was Dany. Her motivations were similar to Cersei (both wanting to protect their families) but her intentions were different. She never wanted a crown, only assurance of their safety as well as hers.
Everything she did in season 7 after his departure was to ensure Jon didn't lose his army for the upcoming battle with the Night King.
Sansa: "Glover has 500 men. Royce has 2,000. Offend them and Jon loses his army."
When Bran came back, she was immediately willing to give the regency over to him. When he didn't want it (because, you know, that whole 3ER thing that apparently went poof in 8x06), she continued doing what she could to make sure Jon's army and the Northern people continued being ready for the battle. And she did it well.
Littlefinger: "Command suits you."
Sansa: "As soon as we heard about The Wall, I called all the banners to retreat to Winterfell. Lord Umber, when can we expect your people to arrive?"
Ned: "We need more horses and wagons, if it please my Lady, and my Lord, and my Queen. Sorry."
Sansa: "You'll have as many as we can spare. Hurry back to Last Hearth and bring your people here."
(cue Sansa's talk with Royce about keeping the gates open to the last possible moment so people could still come in from the countryside before the Dany and Sansa convo in 8x02 in the library)
She even refused to abandon her people (aka her family since Jon, Arya, and Bran were all going to be in the battle) when the NK's army came, until Arya arms her and tells her to get into the Crypts. And once in there, Sansa accepts that there is nothing more she can do since she is not trained to fight. "The most heroic thing we can do is look the truth in the face." And when the dead start rising, she eventually fights them with Tyrion (though they cut the scene after they shot it, because apparently Dany, Arya, Alys, and Brienne, and Jon, Jaime, Theon, and Greyworm, were the only ones allowed to be considered heroes in this episode) to try to save who is left as well as themselves.
When Littlefinger threatened her family (both Bran and Arya, then Jon by extension), she took action and eliminated the threat while keeping part of Jon's army for him.
Arya: "Are you sure you want to do this?"
Sansa: "It's not what I want. It's what honor demands."
Arya: "And what does honor demand?"
Sansa: "That I defend my family from those who would harm us. That I defend the North from those who would betray us."
When she realizes that Jon manipulated Dany into going North to help fight the NK (and save her "people"), she then immediately switches into friendly mode and tries to ascertain if the North (and the Starks/Jon) could be free.
She didn't want Dany dead; she wanted to avoid having another tyrant in power. She had already experienced Joffrey and Cersei. She didn't want to submit to anyone else's rule ever again so she and her family (and the North by extension) would be safe. The 7x01 conversation she and Jon have about the NK being the enemy to the North and Cersei being the enemy to the South very clearly indicates that the North/Winterfell (and hence, the Starks) are caught in the middle of both conflicts (and this is right after Jon has received Tyrion's scroll to join Dany's fight against Cersei, so now they're in the middle of that one, too, no matter how they answer).
She didn't tell Jon's secret to Tyrion to get Jon killed or to kill Dany or to just cause chaos. She did it to save Jon's life (and to get him back home with his crown restored). She didn't know what would happen to KL or how Jon would be forced to choose to end Dany's tyranny in that way.
Littlefinger: "One of two things will happen. Either the dead will defeat the living in which case, all our troubles come to an end. Or life will win out. And what then? Don't fight in the North, the South. Fight every battle everywhere, always. In your mind. Everyone is your enemy. Everyone is your friend. Every possible series of events is happening all at once. Live that way and nothing will surprise you. Everything that happens will be something that you've seen before." (this is what Sansa gleaned the most from Littlefinger and this is exactly what she does in the last season and in season 7 after this convo takes place - and funnily enough, right after this, Bran arrives back home, Bran who is now the 3ER and knows 'every possible series of events is happening all at once' and 'everything that happens will be something that you've seen before')
She literally
Defended
Her Family (and the North)
It's no surprise that she ended up being named Queen in the North (after Jon was not allowed to be restored to any titles)
Bonus:
Sansa's "power hungry" and "jealous" expression she exchanges with Littlefinger when Jon is named KitN and she sees how unhappy Littlefinger is at this turn of events (after he revealed he wants the IT with her in the Godswood scene):
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losing followers after sansaposting ✌🏼✌🏼✌🏼
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we love the sansaposting
Sansa is a good bean and deserves the world!
#esp after my rant about female characters being unappreciated lol#then I saw my dash and I was like “!!!!! is this Sansa week???”
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just sansaposting tonight ☺️
#this video was taken one minute before sansa realized she was stuck and started yelling her head off#also ignore all the fur on the floor lol#and her grinch paws
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"The King in the North needs to stay in the North."
Who stayed in the North?
So is it any wonder that Sansa's endgame was heartily embraced by the Northern lords despite being a woman (and I believe the first to be named Queen in the North)?
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Sansa vs Dany Contrast: Treatment of Tyrion
How they view him as an advisor:
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Sansa:
Sansa: "Tyrion is a good man. He was never anything but decent towards me."
Dany:
"I didn't ask him to be my Hand simply because he was good. I asked him to be my Hand because he was good, intelligent, and ruthless when he had to be."
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Dany: "He never should have trusted Cersei."
Sansa: "You never should have either."
How they handle his wanting to fight:
Sansa:
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Tyrion: "If I was out there right now--"
Sansa: "You'd die. There's nothing you can do."
Tyrion: "You might be surprised at the lengths I'd go to, to avoid joining the Army of the Dead. I can think of no organization less suited to my talents."
Sansa: "Witty remarks won't make a difference. That's why we're down here. None of us can do anything. It's the truth. It's the most heroic thing we can do now. Look the truth in the face."
(this works with Tyrion because we see him thinking it over and then him remarking that maybe they should have stayed married - Sansa is in the same position as him, she wants to help, to do something, but she knows she can't, that she would only get in the way, which is why she listens to Arya - so it makes perfect sense that later she and Tyrion step up to the plate to take on the Wights in the crypt together [I will never forgive the show for deleting that great scene but making sure Dany's out-of-nowhere sword skills were kept in, it's a lot easier for someone untrained to use a dagger compared to a big heavy sword, just sayin'])
Dany:
Tyrion: "When the time comes, Ser Davos and I will be on the walls to give you the signal to light the trench."
Dany: "Ser Davos is perfectly capable of waving a torch on his own. You'll be in the crypt."
Tyrion: "Your Grace, I have fought before. I can do it again. Alongside the men and women risking their lives."
Dany: "There are thousands of them and only one of you. You can't fight as well as they can but you can think better than any of them. You're here because of your mind. If we survive, I'll need it."
(notice how they show Jon's, Varys', and Jorah's reactions here; Jon's reaction is less than complimentary most likely due to Dany speaking against the plan they already had in place & knowing that Tyrion could be useful; Varys agrees with Dany because he and Tyrion are friends; Jorah's is more passive but these three are shown at a time they didn't need to be when this sequence is purely Dany and Tyrion so why show them? because they're showing you that this is something Dany should not have voiced in front of everyone else [it's also a play on the previous scene of her biting Tyrion's head off], the previous season and even this episode, Dany's ire has grown towards Tyrion & she made it clear to Sansa earlier why she has Tyrion as her Hand - this on the surface looks like Dany caring about him and not wanting him to get hurt but she makes it clear she's keeping him around for only one reason)
How they speak of him to others:
Sansa:
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Sansa: "Tyrion's not like the other Lannisters. He was always kind to me."
(the 8x02 library scene from above is another example, she defends Tyrion when Dany blames him for Cersei's deception)
Dany:
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Dany: "He's made mistakes. Serious mistakes."
Jorah: "As have we all. He learns from them."
Dany: "You're advising me to forgive the man who stole your position?"
Jorah: "I am."
Dressing him down in front of others:
Sansa:
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Sansa: "Cersei told you her army was coming North to fight for you?"
Tyrion: "She did."
Sansa: "And you believed her?"
Tyrion: "She has something to live for now. I believe she wants to survive."
Sansa: "I used to think you were the cleverest man alive."
(Sansa does not say anything critical of him in front of others, she waits until they're alone)
Dany:
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Davos: "You'll want to discuss this amongst yourselves."
Dany: "You will stay."
Tyrion: "Commit to the blockade of King's Landing. We have a plan. It's still the right plan."
Dany: "The right plan? Your strategy has cost us Dorne, the Iron Islands, and the Reach."
Tyrion: "If I have underestimated our enemies--"
Dany: "Our enemies? Your family, you mean. Perhaps you don't want to hurt them after all."
(not to mention the 8x02 scene where she dresses Tyrion down in front of Jorah and Varys)
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For those who say Sansa was the same as Dany (or worse than Dany), have a looksie here:
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Man is held by the guards while Ilyn Payne approaches him to slit his throat, and the man is screaming out "no". He is then let go and staggers until he falls to the ground bleeding out.
7x07 - Littlefinger's execution:
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Sansa: "It's not what I want, it's what honor demands."
Littlefinger: "Give me a chance to defend myself. I deserve that."
Sansa: *sits back in her chair & allows him to*
While Littlefinger is going to be executed and he is not allowed to escape (by the door being shut), Sansa does allow him to speak for himself. She is not the one who tells him that he won't be escorted by the KotV back to the Eyrie. And Littlefinger is not held down; Arya simply walks up to him and cuts his throat. While he's on his knees, begging in his own way, he put himself there. Sansa did not have him put there.
8x06 - unarmed Lannister soldiers:
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Grey Worm is acting on Dany's orders.
Davos: "How much more defeated do you want them to be?"
GW: "They are breathing." "I obey my queen's commands, not yours."
Jon: "And what are the Queen's commands?"
GW: "Kill all who follow Cersei Lannister."
See the difference?
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So I keep rewatching that Tyrion and Sansa scene in the crypts before they go to save the others, over and over again. It's such an emotionally intimate moment between them but I for the life of me could never figure out why they cut the Tyrion and Sansa fight scene (while keeping Emilia's requested Dany fighting scene in) even though they shot it. Perhaps it was due to time constraints as some had suggested when the episode aired but if that's the case then why did they keep Arya's line of "Stick 'em with the pointy end" to Sansa in? Why did they not cut out the part of the Sansa and Tyrion scene where she's the first to draw out her weapon? That plot point for Sansa's story in this episode (as well as Tyrion's), especially when connected with "None of us can do anything, that's why we're down here. It's the truth. The bravest thing we can do now is look the truth in the face", literally leads to nowhere without that fight scene (meaning in connection to her fighting for her people & to save them). "I'm not abandoning my people." But looking at it in a big picture and semi-abstract way, I do wonder if perhaps it was cut because it was done to be one of the many things they decided to hide for Dany's eventual dark turn. Hear me out.
The reason I say that is because right before we see this scene with Sansa and Tyrion (hiding behind the tomb), we see Jon's run through Winterfell to get to Bran. And what do we see?
We see Gendry and Tormund fighting together. We see Sam in trouble as he's fighting that Jon makes the decision to continue no matter how much you can see he hates to do it. We see Grey Worm fighting (alone). We then see Jaime and Brienne fighting together (and even though we don't see it in this shot, we know from a later shot that Podrick is with them fighting as well). The only enemy at that point is the WW.
Not to mention, before Jon's run, we see Dany alone, by herself, saved in the nick of time by Jorah (from her retinue). They are cut off from everyone else and both fight, but Jorah eventually dies.
In the scene after Jon's run, we see Theon fighting alongside Alys Karstark (though we don't see her in a shot, we know she's there from an earlier shot) and their soldiers to protect Bran.
Then we come to the Tyrion and Sansa scene.
So you have Dany (South-Targaryen) and Jorah (North-Mormont but also South because he is part of Dany's retinue & goes where she goes). Then a Baratheon (even though he's not legitimized yet he's still a Baratheon) and a Widling fighting together (aka South and North). Then Sam (North-The Wall and South-Tarly). Then Grey Worm by himself (not of Westeros; part of Dany's retinue). Then Jaime (South-Lannister), Brienne (South but also North because she's protecting Sansa or more appropriately, going from South to North), and Podrick (same). Theon (both South and North-both Greyjoy and Stark -> ends as a Stark-North) and Alys (North) protecting Bran (who ends up as the 6K King in the end). Then Sansa (North-Stark) and Tyrion (South-Lannister).
You literally have the house names we recognize in Westeros that are left at this point in time being represented (as well as the Wildlings) and they are all fighting up North, alongside everyone else, and fighting for survival against this terrifyingly dangerous enemy. The only houses that are cut off from everyone else are Targaryen and Mormont (the same house that gets ended this episode), and is it any wonder they have Jon running by himself (when he doesn't know who he is yet)? Not being completely cut off but also not fighting alongside anyone else though he wants to but only has one mission in mind aka protecting Bran/killing the NK?
Put all of that together plus this scene:
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(there is so much going on in this scene but the part I'm talking about is where Missandei has her reaction to what Sansa says & then walks away, alone -> we know Varys wasn't blindly devoted to Dany despite being part of her retinue & after Jorah is gone, Varys is the one to start voicing his doubts to Tyrion & the audience)
And then I remembered this scene from 8x04:
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Dany is not happy overhearing Tormund praising Jon for not only something she herself has done but she's also feeling threatened now that she knows who Jon is (which is confirmed by the dialogue in the bedroom scene after this). But Jon (regardless of his dual heritage) is sitting with the Wildlings and previously Sansa was there as well (Stark). Then Dany sees Tyrion laughing and enjoying himself with Brienne, Podrick, and Jaime. We know that Dany views Jaime as an enemy and that had Jon (and Sansa) not decided to recruit Jaime rather than execute him, he would be Dracarys'd already. Brienne is the one who spoke up in defense of Jaime (plus remember that whole line from Dany to Tyrion back in 8x02 of "Perhaps because he knows his brother will defend him right up to the moment he slits my throat"?) that led to Sansa's decision that then led to Jon's. Pod is with Brienne. Sure enough, Dany then looks back at Jon and Tormund/the Wildlings again before getting up to leave. We also see Varys notice not all is well.
And then:
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This is not the first time Cersei has been unable to have Tyrion killed after she is Queen. They make sure to show us Dany's reaction to this (and even Euron's). They even made sure to show us how intent Dany is while waiting to see what happens (and to show us Grey Worm looking over at her briefly so the audience will make sure to focus on her if they're not already). Dany is initially not pleased and looks almost angry but also not surprised or relieved. A small glimmer of hope (maybe for Missandei's release?) mixed with confusion (maybe because she's wondering what Cersei is up to?) follows after. But the anger was already shown. Even Euron is surprised and appears unsure why Cersei spared Tyrion. (Euron, the lone Greyjoy in contrast to Theon being with the Starks, who is only with Cersei for a certain reason; Cersei being the lone Lannister; Dany being the lone Targaryen because Jon has the Starks in the first half of the season & Dany never truly trusts him after she finds out the truth about him)
The thing is, while Cersei and Dany share many parallels (and I would even argue that certain aspects of the Mad Queen narrative are split between them leading up to their endgames which proves they are anything but mad), in the end, Cersei did not give up on her family. "Everyone who isn't us is an enemy." No matter how much she hated Tyrion or felt betrayed by Jaime, they were there for her in the end (in their own ways) and she couldn't swing the sword on either of them so to speak. Which is interesting given that she did not fight with the others at Winterfell (or send her army to fight) and didn't care about the one thing that mattered: survival. She had no issue with others killing Tyrion or Jaime (for example, the trial of Joffrey's murder; sending Bronn up North with a crossbow with their names on it - though for this one I'd argue she knew that Bronn would most likely be talked out of it since Jaime met with Tyrion in secret; Jaime choosing to go North to fight which he very well might not have come back from & she knew it since she saw the WW threat was real, etc.), but when it was at her command, in front of her, she never took the opportunity. And Jaime you could understand as her twin, her lover, but there was no reason for Tyrion. Except that they were family, no matter how much she may have despised him, or he her. Even when he killed Tywin; even when he joined Dany and came with her to Westeros; even when Cersei makes it clear that she knows exactly what Dany is to Tyrion.
So even though Cersei didn't care about anyone else and she didn't fight for anyone else (and she certainly wasn't a benevolent queen), she still cared for her brothers on some small level because they were the Lannister trio (as well as being in love with Jaime for many years and only trusting him). So not fighting with them but still...a part of them. Especially when you compare it to the Starks and Jon, and then Jon and Dany as the Last Two Targaryens.
So my whole long point is I wonder why if they cut that scene out not just for possible time constraints but also to help contribute to keeping the point of Dany's dark turn hidden.
Because you have a Stark and a Lannister working together to save people as well as each of their lives (and families by extension).
Which very well echoes the ending episode in where Bran becomes King and he makes Tyrion his Hand. "He's going to fix what he broke." And there are no Targaryens left alive (minus Jon who is banished/exiled, not an accident btw) or in power. The Targaryens have been removed completely from the map as well as from any kind of power in the world.
So I wonder if in a roundabout way, that's why this particular scene was removed. I could be completely wrong and I'm just thinking out loud here, but given the scene's removal after it was filmed when there were other gratuitous shots from that episode that could have been removed to help those time constraints, something just isn't jiving if that's the actual reason. Especially since they introduced that plot point for Sansa in the episode and it never came to fruition. (knowing D&D, I think they thought that scene between Sansa and Tyrion was enough, as well as showing us the moment the Crypt Wights were destroyed by the NK's death and us seeing Sansa and Tyrion right there in front of anyone else, knives in hand - sigh)
#sansa stark#got 8x03#got#game of thrones#sansa stark meta#metaposts#gotposts#sansaposts#the long night#i'm thinking got thoughts in this chili's tonite#mention of dark!dany#mention of cersei
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Possible unpopular opinion. One of my pet peeves for GOT is the costumes. One particularly is in S7 and S8 Sansa hardly, almost never wears the house Stark sigil. We have her odd circle necklace but until her QitN scene she isn’t wearing her house sigil and honestly that was a mistake. As the Stark of Winterfell and the defacto voice of her people in conflict with Dany, it’s subtle signal that has a lot of resonance about Sansa place in the story. Maybe I’m missing something?
Hey, Anon!
Oooo you raise a very interesting point. I agree with you completely, actually. I do love Michele Clapton and all of the work she did, but I have to say, you're right. Why did we only see the Stark sigil once everything with Dany ended? Why did we never see it in season 7 or 8? Especially with Littlefinger, the KotV, even Littlefinger's execution (and Arya and Bran were back home and she was in charge) or things with Dany? You make an excellent point.
I'm curious to know what her response would have been. I do wonder if D&D had anything to do with it, and here's why I'm thinking that. They kept the whole Littlefinger/Starks working together thing under wraps until the season 7 finale, then did the same thing with Jon for Dany until they abandoned it in the 11th hour in the season 8 finale, but still... It doesn't make sense. Whoever is responsible, I'm confident in saying that I do feel it was the wrong call, because it was obvious that Sansa drew strength from being a Stark and like you said, being a Stark in Winterfell. I can understand the Tully-like dress from 8x04, but still.
I would love to ask Michele that question, Anon. I wish there was a way to do that. I don't think you missed anything, I think they did lol.
The only thing I can think is that maybe they thought her fur-lined cape was enough to show the Stark side? Or more likely that they purposely waited until she was becoming QitN to show that crown with the two wolves to symbolize that she became the head of House Stark/took Robb's place (and Jon is no longer wearing the two wolves symbol or representing House Stark in his costuming)? I could absolutely see D&D doing that and thinking it was very clever (and they kept yet another shocking twist covered, go them! 🙄).
But other than that, I really don't know. But you're right, it was a mistake. Sansa makes it pretty clear that she draws strength from her Stark identity and Winterfell. The whole 'I am Sansa Stark and this is my home. And you can't frighten me.' Trying to convince Jon to take Winterfell back from the Boltons. Representing House Stark to the Northern lords when she and Jon asked for help for the battle. Jon acknowledging that the battle would have been lost if it hadn't been for her, and giving her Ned and Cat's bedchamber. Sansa being the voice for the North (like you mentioned) and Jon as KitN leaving it in her very capable hands. Bran and Arya aka the Pack returning. Sansa running things while Jon is gone and she is Lady of Winterfell when Dany comes a knocking. It's made very clear to Dany who "runs this shit" like Sophie says, and it's her "house" like the director told her for that meeting. The Stark sigil should have been present once Sansa was officially back in Winterfell, even as far back as season 5, when she says that line to Myranda. But guaranteed, D&D (and/or Michele) kept it under wraps for the "big reveal" in the end. And that was a mistake.
Thank you for the ask, Anon! I hope you have a nice rest of your day!!! <3
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Same anon new topic. Do you think there were hints through the series of Sansa being Queen? I heard somewhere that the writers didn’t know till like season 3 or so. I felt out of all the characters, D&D honestly had no idea how effectively write/ translate Sansa from page to screen. Like they literally gave her a non pov character story line for a whole season passing over her political story in the vale!?
Hey, Nonnie! Oooo, that is a very good question.
I have to be honest, I had no idea that she was going to be Queen in the end. I honestly thought she would remain as Lady of Winterfell at the very least, and depending on how the ending went, be named as Wardeness of the North. I never expected her to have anything higher than that because of the whole IT thing, and the fact that I think this would have been enough for her (depending on who was sitting on the IT in the end and how safe she, the Starks, and the North were), and it would have been in line with her goals: safety, her family being safe once again, Winterfell, and the North. But then again, I also didn't expect that Robb or Jon would be named King in the North either tbh.
So upon first watch, I had no clue. I knew they were showing her as a contrast to Dany and Cersei (and Margaery before the Sept scene), and I knew they strongly hinted at her learning from each queen as the seasons progressed from her hairstyles to certain costuming decisions. But I never had any idea that she would be crowned in the end. Because she didn't really want power, not really. Only enough power to keep herself and her family safe, to maintain their position in the North so her enemies couldn't come for her or for them. So it was a very pleasant surprise when we got that moment in the finale. I have never been prouder of my girl! I was right there with Arya:
That was literally me when it happened LOL.
I'm surprised to hear that they knew back in season 3. To me, that indicates that her show ending may be akin to what GRRM wants to accomplish with her story in the books. I don't mean it will end in the exact same way, but that she is important to the ending of the series.
As for D&D knowing what to do with her, I don't know to be honest. I think they made a lot of adaptation decisions that, though tbf I'm not 100% educated on this topic enough to form a full opinion (I've only read up to Book 2 so far), that didn't make sense. I got the whole Lady Stoneheart thing, even Griff and Harry Hardyng, but why didn't we get Val or Dacey Mormont or other characters of the books that should have been included? Even if they just got a cameo at the very least? And like you said, Sansa's whole political story in the Vale got reduced to what we saw on screen. Even Dany's Mhysa Is Master story line got reduced in season 5 (from what I understand by seeing others' posts about it). I really wish I could pick D&D's and the writers' brains about it because to me, it doesn't make sense. Was it due to adaptation? Time limits? Budget constraints? What?
So I think, in some ways, they did know what to do with Sansa (like you said, they knew around season 3 or so what her endgame was going to be) but I think the theme that ended up playing out in certain seasons was the same as what happened in season 8. While D&D were masterful at crafting several different storylines and weaving them all together, sometimes they would converge (like Dany & Jon's for example, or Tyrion's & Jon's), or they would run alongside each other but constantly mirror particularly well (like Jon & Sansa's parallels, or Robb & Jon, or Sansa's, Cersei's, and Dany's, or Ned's, Jon's, and Sansa's, or even Jon's, Arya's, Sansa's and Bran's), they always seemed to pick their top storylines of the season and letting the others that maybe weren't as important to that season's major events fall to the wayside or at the very least be put on the back burner. With season 8, we saw Dany's story line swallow up everyone else's, to the point where it felt majorly out of place and we didn't get fully played out endings for other characters to make sense with their arcs or just them as characters. Because they wanted to focus on the Jonerys angle, Dany's descent and the destruction of KL, the love triangle (though they never officially called it that for whatever reason), and the NK battle (though the battle only took 1 episode which was strange in itself but they were aiming to be the Helms Deep battle of TV so guaranteed that's why). So even though we got Cersei's storyline, Jaime's, Sansa's, etc, the rest of it took a backseat. So if say Sansa's Vale storyline wasn't as important to them (or due to adaptation), that could be why that happened.
I do tend to agree with you a bit, though. D&D tended to write her story a lot better once Winterfell/Jon came into play. It felt like they finally picked her up off of the shelf and dusted her off. Most likely due to the fact that they were honing in on the endgame, which for her they might have figured out in season 3, but everyone else they started planning for near the end of season 6's production I think they said.
Now when I go back and rewatch, I absolutely see the tells they're talking about. Like the whole bells contrast she has with Cersei and Dany. Her list of contrasts she has to Dany (like what happened when they were born), not only with Jon, but also as rulers themselves. How we got to see her operate once she had power in her hands in Winterfell (and I'm convinced this is why she was so respected by the time Jon and Dany came North; this is why it makes me laugh every time Sansa haters say she was power hungry) and what goal she worked towards. How she learned from all 3 queens (Cersei, Margaery, and Dany). Even right down to the physical direction they were given. To her standing up to Joffrey in this one moment. All of it. And it absolutely makes sense now with the lead up to her endgame. But sadly, I hadn't seen it before. But yes, I definitely do think there were hints along the way. =)
I hope I was able to fully answer your question, Nonnie! Hope you have a wonderful rest of your night!!! <3
#ask#ask answered#sansa stark#got#game of thrones#queen in the north#my queen now and always#metaanswers#qitn!sansaposts
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