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hecckyeah · 1 year

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Hey! I’m super enjoying your pro-Joey Friends phase. It was my favorite show for a long time.

You had a GREAT post about how that relationship really grew and matured both Joey and Rachel’s characters, and I want to add that the fizzling of that relationship also DESTROYED Joey’s character.

Joey finally falling in love - real love - with Rachel made him see the hollow/shallow reality of his womanizing ways. His parents’ dysfunctional marriage really affected him early on in the series, and I head canon that he felt safe with Rachel. They developed that trust from living together. She was a person he’d never tire of the way that his father tired of his mother and sought out someone else.

When things didn’t work out with Rachel, the writers infantalized him. For laughs. Monica and Chandler joked that they’d have to have a room for him at their new house so they could take care of him forever because he couldn’t take care of himself. A grown man. Who had a good job and lived on his own since his 20’s.

If anyone should’ve been stuck in neutral forever, it was Ross. He was self-destructive from the start (Carol destroyed him and he never got over it and kept hurting other people because of it) and it would’ve been so satisfying to see him just stay in NY and raise his son and be a confirmed old bachelor. He had the temperament for being alone.

Oh! And one more thing: Joey was the first one to step up and offer to be committed to Rachel to help her raise Emma, and even tho Rachel turned him down, he ended up doing it anyway because Ross drove her away.

Anyway, I haven’t thought about all of this in a long time! But it’s been a lot of fun to read your takes and analysis. ☺️

Hi!!

Okay oh my gosh YES to all of this. OH the essays I could write.

I actually went through this exact same phase many years ago, and hadn't watched Friends in a while, so now just speeding through the entire series in a couple months, it's really giving me a different perspective than I had the first time. I'm also quite a bit older (you know how people change so much from late teen years to early twenties? It's crazy) and I have a different frame of reference for all the issues these characters deal with, since a lot of them have become my own issues now. There's so much nuance I didn't pick up on the first time around.

You are so right about Joey's character deteriorating after season 9. It's like the writers didn't know what to do with him except continuing his infamous saga of being an immature, stupid womanizer. He has no character development in season 10. Nothing pushing him ahead, nothing to look forward to like the other 5. Monica and Chandler having their babies and moving, of course, Rachel getting the Paris job offer, Phoebe and Mike getting married. What's in all this for Joey? Jokes about him being possessive of food and regressing back to how he was five or six seasons ago.

Infantilizing is absolutely the perfect word. Of all the friends, I would say Joey had the biggest development in the shortest amount of time, with Rachel right there with him. He was immediately ready to step up when she told him she was pregnant, without giving it any kind of second thought. In fact, he begged her to stay and live with him when she was so sure he would hate the idea. He was there with her at every turn, when she was scared about the braxton hicks, when she had so much anxiety about being a single mom, and especially when she missed going on dates and he made the perfect pseudo-boyfriend.

He absolutely felt safe with her, probably more than anyone he'd ever known. They're so similar in so many ways and he'd been living with her for years. Rachel couldn't even live with Ross for a year, or probably less (the timeline isn't super clear, let's be honest lol). She and Joey finally fell into this relationship built on an incredible foundation of trust and friendship (just like two other friends we all know and love), but they broke up because......???? of Ross? Or something? They were so perfect for each other, the writers had to bumble their way through a breakup in the weirdest way possible.

And then how do they treat Joey in season 10? Like he's the dumbest person who's ever existed. I get that he's not the sharpest crayon in the box, but they play up the stupid factor by about a thousand, and it's infuriating. I've always said he's the emotionally intelligent one of the group, but not even that is really shown in season 10. He flunks at the Pyramid game, he doesn't realize he's not speaking French, digs are made at his character, like you said with Monica and Chandler having a "Joey room" in their house. Sweet idea, horrible insinuation.

I mean, the man is in his mid-thirties. He's been through more life than Ross, for sure. I specifically remember watching that episode recently with Joey's parents and thinking how mature he was, how protective of his mom. And how angry he was at his dad, and insistent that he make things right with Ma. He's had to fight tooth and nail for a place in the world of showbusiness. He's had to watch all his friends find love and settle down and get everything they've ever wanted, while he's been in love exactly once in his entire life. He's grown and matured and when his best friend was pregnant, he realized that he actually wants to settle down and have a family. I mean, what level of growth and maturity does it take to realize that?

In earlier seasons, his demeanor was totally different. I don't even recognize season 10 Joey. They had to kill his very essence to explain their breakup.

And yeah, like you said. I think they wrote Ross into a storyline that -- if we're being realistic -- can only end with him being a bachelor and working at the university. He's never been able to live with anyone. He was a terrible roommate for Joey and Chandler, and he and Rachel couldn't last. Not only is he self-destructive, but he's destructive to everyone around him.

What kind of world do we live in where Joey "my god, she is... beautiful" Tribbiani doesn't get a happy ending, and Ross "we were on a break" Geller does??

Anyway, there's the essay for the day. My mind kind of ran away with me and I probably have more to say and maybe I'll organize my thoughts someday, but I'm watching season 10 as we speak and I'm just so. so sad. about how it all turned out. But I'll just live in AO3 Land and pretend Rachel and Joey raise their little family and grow old together and Ross stagnates and continues his precious tenure.

#asks #omg i am so sorry for the multi-paragraph ramble #thank you for the ask!!! I'm so glad I'm not the crazy one around here lmao #friends tv #anti ross geller #joey tribbiani #rachel green

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