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maligknights · 7 years

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Thoughts on Echoes: Shadows of Valencia

Just finished the main game and…

This game is incredible. *Gross sobbing*

I am amazed at how it is so faithful to the original to the point the gameplay retained some of the clunkiness of Gaiden, but uplifted in a way it is way more fun than the original.

The original NES title will always have a je ne sais quoi that people seem to either love or hate (which I personally find unique and charming) and that Echoes cannot emulate, however I would recommend Shadows of Valencia over the original a thousand times.

SoV took a honestly kinda tedious game and turned it into a thrilling experience filled with great characters, an incredible atmosphere and most importantly, upgraded the level design into something fun and exciting.

The new characters are fun, the new designs and dialogue are gorgeous and full of flavor; and the retcons to the original plot not only create a much more complex and poignant narrative, but fix Gaiden’s biggest issue as a sidequel to Shadow Dragon and fill in the blanks that the Lore of the original did not have the time to bridge.

I will admit I am a bit sad I did not get to see your reactions to “the twist” since I finished late bc time so I avoided the tags like the plague (which apparently spared me a lot of drama as well).

Now to spoiler discussion:

On my first thoughts I really was expecting the new twists to strip the aim of the bare narrative of the original, but I was pleasantly surprised at how well the retcons were handled to the point they could find a converging point. SoV is still about man giving their gods the finger which is just great.

Like I have already said, the fact that Duma and Mila were turned into Divine Dragons and how Alm and Celica’s bloodlines now have a crusader esque touch, gives Valencia the sense of continuity it was sorely missing. Lorewise, the original had nothing to do with Archanea to the point that Judgral made a better sidequel to Shadow Dragon and Mystery of the Emblem because of how their timelines kinda add up and their struggles have the same origin point. This gives the FE Multiverse more continuity and makes it larger as a Multiverse and bridges the Kaga Era games into one, more complete Universe.

Alm is much less of the homicidal nutjob of the original which loses memetic value but is a much more compelling character. Celica is just adorable gimme so I can hug her and bake her a cake or something. The characters are pretty cool, not as complex as some other FE titles but very very enjoyable, even the flatest are fun to hear. Rudolf is a great antagonist, the fact that we have townspeople to flesh out the world so much is great, the music is excellent, agh I can just gush about this game for hours.

I really love the narrator’s final lines and how it ties to Medeus’s dying words.

I am not going to say that this is 100% perfect, but it comes really close, so if I had to nitpick:

Well, Duma and Mila broke the agreement between Divine Dragons by: First, interfering with man so deep they became FUCKING GODS and messed with the natural conditions of their habitat. Second, knowing how powerful Divine Dragons are and how dangerous they become when degenerating, why did Naga allow them to keep their dragons forms? Gotoh and Xane discarded their dragonstones to prevent them from destroying worlds and Naga instead of punishing them gave them a Falchion twin to Marth’s in case they degenerated so wtf Naga, do your job! IDK seems kinda unfair that Naga actually went to Jugdral to stop an Earth Dragon, but left Mila and Duma to their devices knowing Divine Dragons are waaaay more powerful.

The DLC and Postgame are coming though, I am awaiting that to see how Grima’s origin tale gets, but with how the retcons have been handled, I have a certain hope for how they are going to fix the hot mess that is Ylisse’s lore which is VERY commendable. I am still intrigued whether Robin is the true descendant of Alm and Celica or if Grima’s pact stems from a completely different bloodline (Judah’s maybe?). I love the fact that they specify that Alm and Celica’s bloodline lasts a thousand years because you know with what that aligns? That’s right, the first exalt. So my prediction that their bloodline was uprooted to prevent Grima from returning via vessel might be true. It’s very interesting that you get to look at Ferox’s origins, a hint of how the climate of Archanea changed and a few tidbits about Grima.

Fernand had way more focus than Berkut. I really like Fernand but let’s face it, Berkut was the bigger villain so his breakdown and death was not as emotional as Fernand’s who had a really long and cheesy death scene (that brought me to tears but yes). In the same vein, we needed his relationship with Rinoa to get more buildup so the sacrifice could be much more effective, although I will say that when he turns her into a witch is the best thing ever. Berkut you asshole.

The Zofian royal family could’ve been fleshed out a little bit more, especially with the addition of Conrad. And like Fernand’s death there were some slightly forced and/or predictable moments, but the story was pretty well handled.

But all in all…. It is an amazing game as both a standalone and as a remake, far better than Heroes of Light and Shadow thanks to the risks they took with the gameplay and story and how wisely they used the assets of the original.

THIS is in spirit how Fates should’ve handled itself. Especially considering that Nohr and Hoshido have similar setups and a similar truth about the protagonist.

I have faith that Echoes as a brand will continue, I am really looking forward to the next remake which will probably be either Genealogy of the Holy War or Binding Blade. I am looking forward to how they’ll fix Elibe’s lore and how they’ll expand the gameplay and the already vast world of Jugdral. Elibe’s history has a similar flavor to Archanea, so it might make sense that they also share an origin (especially with that theory about the Dragon’s Gate and Nagi and how Heroes has handled Elibean lore which has its issues but eh… we’ll see).

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maligknights · 7 years

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Huh, so I see names popping up for the rewrite. (That poor horse pulp that is FE14). Granted the FE Universe article about Nami Komura is troubling, but it's also may be quite inflated (I feel inclined to believe it more than dismiss it as a witch hunting because we have seen this kind of shit happen before with games like Mighty No. 9 where someone who has no interest in what they are working in completely warps the final product). Like sure, 4Chan loves flaming, but just because they are hating on someone doesn't necessarily mean it's a complete lie, especially if this lady has a bad rep on the japanese fandom. On the other hand, the fact that IntSys had a big ass staff change after FE12 is more likely the cause than pinning everything on Ms. Komura... Then again, with the success of FE13 & 14 in the marketing department and her involvement, perhaps at the helm, in everything non-remakes does strike a nerve in me for future games and provides a decent explanation to the stuff we have seen since 2012. I was willing to read a few comics by Mr. Kibayashi to see exactly where his print is on the writing since he is apparently responsible for the larger plotholes in FE14 and was THE writer in Fates... Some other people seem to have their mitts in too, I need to check the credits in both games to start making the connection because honestly the type of mistakes that we see in both games are so strongly patterned I don't think we can pin the blame entirely on the dude who only worked on one game. Internet drama has a way to grow into something much larger than it really is so I should take this with a grain of salt :p Food for my own thought I suppose.

#overcooked pulp god damnit I wanna get it done but I have no time #discussion #development #fe13 #fe14 #maligrants #writing #fates rewrite #i just wanted to get this out lol #nami komura #shin kibayashi

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maligknights · 7 years

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Okay lemme be Nitpicky Mc Nerdypants for a second here

As a keeper of retcons kinda, it is my duty to point out a meaningless detail about heroes that doesn’t make a lot of sense:

So in the Blazing Shadows Paralogue, Not!Zacharias was investigating the origins of the bullshit Eldritch evil that is most likely slowly possessing Veronica right?

He specifically mentions that the origin legend of the bullshit Eldritch evil, referred to as the “Original Demon” (no connection to Formortis confirmed yet), was written by Braimmimond one of the Eight Legends of Elibe and is implied that he used the Elibean Dragon’s Gate in Valor to get there.

While this is a cool attempt to tie in the FE Multiverse which tbh always gets me hyped, three things:

-The Elibean Dragon’s Gate cannot be opened by humans. Only dragons can use it according to the lore in Blazing Sword. It would seem that Awakening (to some extent Fates) and Heroes retconned that now they can be used by anyone. Which kinda kills the climax of FE7 but I digress.

-With the knowledge that the bullshit Eldritch evil is transdimensional, it would make more sense that it was Athos or Nergal who learnt of it thanks to Arcadia. The dragons who have lived there were most likely aware of the FE Multiverse and thus the kingdoms of Askr and Emblian as they are referred to as keepers of these portals in some way. Braimmimond went for a 900 year vacation to Bern and died there before Binding Blade.

-Granted Braimmimond was the ultimate dark mage kinda and was omniscient in some way, but Not!Zacharias finds the scriptures in Valor which would point more towards Nergal who actually lived there for quite some time and who was definitely aware of the purpose of the Dragon’s Gate via Aenir. It would also make sense that since Nergal was studying to become a sorcerer with powers on par with Braimmimond himself, he would’ve learned of the Original Demon’s existence as a source of the power he desperately needed. I wouldn’t mind if the game would’ve gone as far as retconning that it was the Original Demon who drove him insane.

#me nitpicking as always #maligrants #fe heroes #fe7 #discussion #lore #fe heroes spoilers #fire emblem heroes spoilers #salt #shit i posted this too early

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maligknights · 7 years

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@burgermiester fair enough. Although I meant strictly the story stuff that was cut which made it more adult in the sense that it is more gritty and complex and explains that the characters DO have human motivations. Like the concubine wars (which is what dame and I are always salting about). I am 100% on Treehouse's side for removing that stupid minigame that yes, is foolish sexual garbage that makes the company look really bad not just from a western/outside of japan perspective but from the eyes of anyone who isn't into the hardcore moe and dating sim scene.

#guess the post appeared on the feed but not the previous convo lol #fe14 #discussion #localization #burgermiester #maligrants

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maligknights · 7 years

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Quick tangent to the translations stuff.... How are we, as Nintendo fans, supposed to convey to other gamers that Nintendo has its share of "mature" games if they keep getting neutered by the localization?

#salt #maligrants #nintendo #gaming #fire emblem #fe

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maligknights · 7 years

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@damoselcastel I knew you would answer to the call lol. But yeah that sounds about right... No clue where they got that ascinine idea though. FE13 still had some dark areas and considering the premise of the franchise itself plus the particularly tragic setup for this game anyone with half a brain would think that making it "friendly towards younger audiences" was not the way to go but what do I know. Corporate minds and translators rarely mix too well with artistic integrity. Well at the very least no matter how the tonal whiplash of the castle kills the momentum of the drama to some extent I guess it doesn't extinguish completely, especially in Conquest where (shock) all we are alluding to had the most impact.

#salt #maligrants #fe14 #discussion #localization

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maligknights · 7 years

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Awakening: A Rewrite

Much of Awakening’s story issues could’ve been solved with a quick revision of the script. I think the writing team should’ve checked the outline and the details with a bit more care just to make sure everything was consistent. Maybe a second revision to if not make an honest to god sequel at least make sure the retcons didn’t create bigger plotholes. Honestly if it weren’t for the plothole that renders the whole story useless, most of the shit in Awakening comes from terrible retcons.

Another big issue with the team directing the effort to the 8th Gen FEs is that they got a little too carried away with the gimmicks and new mechanics: the kids idea, although infused with an interesting twist that would allow to use Gens 1 & 2 simultaneously, perhaps was not the best idea to keep the integrity of the story but rather allow the player to keep their MU for the second half of the game. Which if they wanted Robin to be this game’s Julius, they probably shouldn’t have made them an Avatar and give them a scripted death (at least in the bad timeline). Look, the story should serve the gameplay, it’s a videogame, not a movie or a comic. However I think it’s time for the developers to come up with ideas that serve each other, not get in the way (Fates is much worse at this, so I’ll pin it for the next discussion).

Keep in mind this is considering the continuity of both Mystery of the Emblem and Genealogy of the Holy War, as Awakening takes (and then tosses aside) many plot points and lore elements fron these games (I cannot make sense why Valm is here other than the geographical continuity with Archanea and even then it is completely ignored and Valm’s role really isnt essential but rather a detour in both story and level design). All of which SHOULD HAVE BEEN EXPLAINED IN AWAKENING if the game was at least 50% intended for newcomers. Following the canon your story is based on not only gives it more consistency, but it might have generated more interest in remakes for Gaiden and Genealogy of the Holy War. Just sayin’.

Anyway, here is your ever-needed disclaimer and spoiler warning before we take on the quest of reconstructing Awakening.

As one final disclaimer for this quick specific rant-thingy, this is a quick how I would’ve fixed Awakening, if you wish to discuss ideas or think mine sucks, or if I left out something important, feel free to expose your opinion somewhere on the internet.

I am always open for FE talk. ;3

I think to make the story flow a bit less clumsily, Awakening should’ve stuck with the FE4 formula: Chrom dies in a poetically similar fashion to his father, deepening the wound between Ylisse and Plegia as Robin succumbs to Grima. Chrom realizes right before his death why his father started the war in the first place. Years later, Lucina and the Gen2 characters take on the duty of finishing what her grandfather started.

Throughout the story, we would need to gradually expose the lore of FE3 and 4 as both Lucina and Chrom realize that history is repeating itself. This way we can truly have a sequel to FE3 AND a spiritual (and in this case lore) successor to FE4, plus explain a few things that Awakening just skipped and you wouldn’t be able to make sense of if you didn’t play either. Along the lore of the games Awakening borrows from, it would be important to make the distinction that the arrival of Grima and the war of the First Exalt (which presumably shook the geopolitical foundation of Archanea) created a new Era; justifying some of the changes to FE3’s map layout. Throughout the quests for the stones in both Lucina and Chrom’s campaigns we should revisit some of the most important old locations.

I wouldn’t change much for the first chapters except that the Ylisseans, particularly Frederick to keep him in-character, should be very wary of Robin even if they genuinely have lost their memories. Sure, they start building a powerful friendship with Chrom and the Shepherds which loosens suspicion as Robin proves their worth to them; but they should all be on edge on the fact that Robin is very obviously a Plegian mage and judging by their attire and genius for tactics, could’ve very possibly been a Grimleal. The subject of the Brand should come up for both Chrom and Robin (with the Mark of Grima keeping it a secret between Chrom and Robin, and perhaps Lissa and Frederick).

Emmeryn’s role should also be much more prominent if she sacrifices herself for the good of Ylisse/Future Archanea. Let’s create a scenario where those who pact with Naga can also bring Naga back much like Grima regenerates himself (or how Loptyr can come back through a vessel with enough Holy Blood). Emmeryn heeds her father’s last words as the tensions with Plegia escalate: destroy Grima’s vessel, save the world. Emmeryn as one of the last containing Holy Blood of Naga (the other turning out to be Chrom) attempts the Awakening ritual but years of doubt and the anger that surrounded her father’s death cloud her mind and thus she fails to receive Naga’s power and dies.

This would raise the stakes for Chrom: last of his bloodline, yet if unworthy he will also meet the same fate as Emmeryn and trump their chance to vanquish Grima forever. The story should keep raising the stakes: by the second act of Chrom’s tale, he marries, but his heir carries minor Holy Blood, leaving him no choice but to attempt the Awakening himself as the Exalt’s bloodline has finally begun to wane. A choice appears: Chrom doesn’t have to fully bring Naga back by becoming her vessel but rather restore their bond through a less risky ritual (the Awakening presented in the game, but similar to the ritual of the Miracle of Darna) however, first they must gather the stones to complete the Fire Emblem.

So third act goes very similar to the original: Validar creates a trap by offering the final stone, Sable (formerly the Darksphere, whose powers he may have been exploiting). He uses the power of the shield to perform Grima’s ritual on Robin and reveals the former Exalt’s motivation and also his own: Plegia, formerly Dolhr, have had enough of Archanea and later Ylisse’s shit and demand retribution for the genocidal wars against its inhabitants and threaten to create a new order blah blah. Chrom is dead, enter Gen2.

An easy way to bridge Mystery of the Emblem while also explaining Grima would be to tie in the reforging and separation of the orbs of the Binding Shield: Gotoh and Marth have been gone for millennia, so nobody except Tiki knows what the Binding Shield really does: seal the earth dragons and prevent Tiki’s (and by extent other dragons’) degeneration.

Imagine Grima is Medeus’ heir (son or friend, pick your poison) but without the power of the Binding Shield, he degenerates (as explained in the Archanea mythos earth dragons are last second to the divine ones to degenerate) and is left only with the desire for vengeance he shared with Medeus. (This could also explain why we see so few dragons in the game aside Nowi. Perhaps retconning that since Nowi has a relation to divine dragons or humans she is among the last to degenerate).

An alternative would be that during the First Exalt’s coming as the Shield is broken by time or the orbs are separated to be kept by the new nations as a symbol of peace and whatnot, one (perhaps the last) earth dragon wakes from slumber. Much like Loptyr, Grima bonds with a Plegian human to avoid degeneration and upon seeing how the former lands of Dolhr have been decimated after millennia, his desire for revenge against humans is reignited. Perhaps an added bonus would be that he finds some common ground in misery with Plegians which leads him to bond with their leader.

However in either case, the still somewhat fresh memory of Archanea and Jugdral aids the warrior who would become the First Exalt to do the same with Naga and seal Grima away. By the time Emmeryn’s father is crowned, legend has erased the truth to the Binding Shield and the bloodlines have waned.

This would also explain why Tiki still slumbers in Valm in the newer game (let’s just move her somewhere else, perhaps we can revisit and aged or even abandoned Dragon Shrine?). As explained at the end of FE3, as long as the shield remains complete, she would not have to sleep to avoid degeneration. Plus it would also somewhat justify why the descendants of Marth didn’t have this knowledge. Tiki would go to sleep as soon as the orbs are scattered as ordered by Bantu, Xane or another ally who would more or less know what the deal is and who could pass the information to the First Exalt to seal Grima before their death.

Years after Chrom’s death, Lucina takes her father’s place as Exalt as the last bearing the mark (perhaps we can add a mini arc for Owain, though clearly he has minor blood). However she knows she does not have enough Holy Blood to perform the ritual. But Nah being a manakete, learns/senses Tiki still lives and as she is revered as Naga’s Voice (perhaps saving her relation to Naga as a twist for newcomers) she may have a clue on how to save the Ylissean continent.

Sidenote: If the concept of Holy Blood works the same as in FE4, Owain and Lucina could contemplate the alternative of producing an heir themselves, justifying their possibility for marriage.

As Lucina & co arrive to save Tiki from Grima’s forces, Tiki communicates to Nah the truth about the Binding Shield and sends the Gen2 army to retrieve the remaining orbs (perhaps some already collected in Chrom’s campaign) so Tiki can awaken and lend Lucina her power. (Another bonus: Tiki explains that since Nah has a human father she does not need to worry about degeneration, perhaps hinting at Nowi’s origins and fate).

Lucina should achieve the “Awakening” through Tiki (since Naga’s situation in FE13 is a bit hard to grasp bc she’s supposedly long dead) not necessarily the same way it was handled in Future Past, but rather Lucina reforging the bond the First Exalt made but with Tiki who as explained in FE3, may be even more powerful than Naga herself. With her newfound power and perhaps assurance that Lucina’s bloodline will last longer than her ancestors’, she is ready to put Grima to slumber/destroy him with the aid of the complete Emblem.

We could also retcon the twist that Grima can only be truly vanquished by his own blood thus the “true” ending can only be achieved if you recruit Morgan. Which gives them much more agency in the plot. So by the third act, Lucina & Co. convince Morgan about Grima’s true nature and in turn Morgan realizes that Robin is no longer the loving parent they’ve known (which should have alternate dialogue if Morgan is Chrom’s child and fem!Robin is still a marriage option for Chrom) and he or she decides to help the kids finish the Earth dragons forever. Morgan much like Julia in FE4, would probably have little to no marriage options due to their bloodline.

Of course there are more plot points in Awakening’s storyline, but I wanted to focus on the main conflict for this rant. Now, if you really want Valm back, here’s how I think it could work. As I mentioned earlier, Valm/Valencia is not absolutely necessary to this story as the lore doesn’t really have anything to do with neither Archanea nor Jugdral, which is what Awakening borrows from.

With the FE4 formula, there would be a slight compromise of the marriage system and how it works in Awakening. I propose that instead of substitute children, fatherless kids either simply get a downgrade in stats or are carbon copies of their mothers.

I do want to mention though that it would be extra important to give Robin depth despite the convenient excuse for amnesia if we are keeping the focus on them (and subsequently Morgan) as co-protagonist(s). As explained in my “Worst Sequel” rambling, of course Robin should have much more involvement and character development where they are plagued with the guilt of turning against their countrymen and building a much stronger connection between him/her and Validar. I think retconning Morgan as a whole would be necessary as well, perhaps expanding on Future Past Morgan and overall give them more to do in the plot.

I think the efforts of Awakening (and Fates too, though Fates fails spectacularly) despite their waste can be pretty cool in the end, but the writers really need to ask themselves two questions: How? And Why? Only then we can return to the great storytelling that made FE a cult phenomenon.

#wow this one is longer than i anticipated oooops #fe13 #maligrants #fire emblem awakening #fire emblem #rant #rewrite #awakening rewrite #fire emblem awakening rewrite #fe13 spoilers #fire emblem awakening spoilers #fe:a #fe:a spoilers #salt

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maligknights · 7 years

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Quick note regarding Rants, Reviews and the sort

My POV and arguments usually come strictly from the North American versions and the earlier translation patches (for the JP only titles). There are a lot of things that get cut from the Japanese version that I don't know about like the whole stuff with Gangrel (which is amazing btw). But when I do learn about them I will integrate them to the conversation like the Xander/Marx drama CDs and the whole backstory of Garon and his progeny that got shoved under the rug by Treehouse or whomever Nintendo outsourced the translation to. So if you have reliable sources of these changes or differences please let me know! I would love to enrich my knowledge of FE as much as possible.(Also applies to European/Australian version differences) -Ciao

#maligspeak #maligrants #translation #discussion #fe #fire emblem

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maligknights · 7 years

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FUCK I was answering an ask about the sales of FE and it disappeared WTF

#I HATE YOU ASK SYSTEM #maligrants

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maligknights · 8 years

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Worst Emblem Sequel: TL;DR

TL;DR: This game has waaay too many plotholes. But about 70% comes from bad retconing. (I say 70% because the standalone plotholes are ahem... big enough to render its own plot pointless. They are, however, very easy to fix). Which is exactly why Awakening doesn't work as a sequel. It doesn't regard the lore of FE3 or whatever it loosely borrowed from FE4, it is a sequel in name only and so to preserve FE's most recognisable trademarks and characters.

Awakening stands best on it's own. If you know nothing about the Archanea canon (or prefer to ignore it), we are left with a standard style over substance FE plot; a bit plothole-ridden yes, but with some good, fun characters; and amazing gameplay, atmosphere, sound and art. As someone who has been enraged enough to write this ridiculously long, specific rant, I'd advise you to view it the same way: not only because it will save you some ire, but because it truly deserves to be it's own fantastic experience.

Skipped and want me to specify?

PART 1: Awakening as a Standalone

PART 2: Bad Retcons Everywhere

PART 2.5: Yes, I addressed Valm too.

#maligrants #fe13 #fe2 #fe3 #fe4 #fire emblem awakening #rant #salt #welcome to the salt mines #fire emblem awakening spoilers #fire emblem gaiden #fire emblem mystery of the emblem

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maligknights · 8 years

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Valm/Valencia/Valeverga: A Quick Retcon

Adding Valencia to the equation feels like padding, much like Valm's appearance in Awakening. I don't know, it's very hard to give Valencia a subplot without making the story forced and contrived. Valencia's tale was too well self-contained, even as a sidequel to Shadow Dragon. So it's very hard to think where to butt it right in simply because of the geographical stuff.

I think if Valencia HAS to be a thing, here are two options:

One: The only way to integrate it to the main story without too many bumps in the road while making its lore relevant would be to drag Mila and Duma into the conflict. Perhaps retconning that Grima is something like an Earth Dragon resurrected and boosted by Duma, and only the combined efforts of the two Falchions can destroy both (which would somewhat justify the fact that Grima can only be sealed and explain his undead army powers). If we made Grima merely an incarnation of Duma, then the Archanean Falchion doesn't have much to do since Duma is a God, not a dragon of godlike abilities, and can only be subdued with the power of his sister Mila (and viceversa, which is what happens in Gaiden anyway). Plus, a quest for TWO Falchions would feel as padded as a 12-year-old's bra.

Two: Valm should be explored as a DLC sidequest and it would be a super cheap repeat of the plot of FE2 with a few twists here and there. Maybe it could be tinkered to give Owain the mystical sword he longs for (just swap Mistoltn for the Valencian Falchion). Or something simpler to generate interest in a fully expanded Gaiden remake. We could keep the Valencian Falchion as a reward and/or recruit the Alm and Celica Eirenjar and/or get the Slayer/Dread Fighter and Witch seals (idk, I feel Witch is more relevant to Awakening than Bride, especially in this case).

Back to The Worst Emblem Sequel \\ TL;DR Section

Back to Awakening Rewrite

(Sorry @loptyrofjugdral, but I really had to address Valencia because we both know I love Gaiden.)

#maligrants #fe13 #fe2 #fe13 spoilers #fe2 spoilers #fire emblem awakening #rant #salt #welcome to the salt mines #plotholes #writing #plot holes #fe:a #fe: awakening #fire emblem gaiden

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maligknights · 8 years

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Retconing: You're Doing it Wrong

Spoilers! Did You Read the Intro and Disclaimer?

This is Part 2, go to PART ONE?

The other plothole shit comes from the retcons, the only thing they really justify is why Falchion's handle is different on a support conversation with Lucina which explains that the blade since it's made of Naga's fangs, it never wears but the handle is a human construct and has been changed over the ages.

Also Anna's appearances are kinda explained, which is cool even if it's also kinda nonsensical.

But the transition between the continent identity is so infuriatingly vague, when and why the fuck did Archanea become Ylisse? I get the nations are united at the end of FE3 but... what about the Ice Dragon Shrine? Why is Regna Ferox either freezing or completely fine? I thought there was a MAJOR DESERT on the western side of what is Ferox in the future (and don't say climate changes because those don't happen in a couple millenia). Why isn't whatever's left of Khaedin and Dolua never mentioned or at least a landmark? What about Talys, Macedon, Aurelis and Altea? They even reused maps from Gaiden on Valm, so why not be faithful to the geography established on FE3? I though Valm/Valencia was on the East not the West?

Come on guys, it's just locations not too much lore there other than re-explaining very minor details. Someone had the headcanon that Grima wrecked the world so hard that the geography just... changed... Okay? Moving on I guess...

(Let's ignore that piece of shit translation of the concept art book which encompasses both Archanea and Valencia into Valm).

The thing about the mark of Naga is kinda vague, I assumed it was something similar to what the 12 Crusaders did with the dragons in Genealogy of the Holy was but assumptions never made anything canon. A LOT of people didn't play Genealogy of the Holy War you know? But wasn't Naga long dead? Like hundreds of years BEFORE Marth's quest? And thus she never interfered directly on the events in Shadow Dragon and Mystery of the Emblem? Before you say Gotoh, he was left with instructions from Naga before their death and Naga was well around 5k years old when she passed on.

Why are the powers of the stones in the Fire Emblem are never mentioned? It all sure seemed important in the kinda prequels. Talk about making a Mc Guffin even less relevant to a plot. Btw, why is the Darksphere no longer all evil and consuming? Yeah Gharnef gets destroyed, but the stone is still there. Wouldn't Validar or whoever holds it want to exploit it's magic potential? Now that I remember, the stones together have a completely different effect on the Binding Shield now. That is never ever mentioned, at all. (I guess that explains why Tiki is sleeping in Valm despite that with the shield complete she wouldn't have to anymore).

Where the fuck did Grima come from? I think such an important and ancient sounding figure would have a mention? Is he an Earth dragon like Loptyr and Medeus? And if he is why the design choice and also shouldn't the Fire Emblem be enough to keep him asleep for eternity? If the Fire Emblem was created by Naga to seal the Earth dragons and protect his kin from degenearation, why can it be used to resurrect dragons? Medeus says upon defeat that as long as humans have evil in their hearts his kin would torment them, and since the other earth dragons were sealed but not destroyed does he have anything to do with this? If he is an even older evil, how come he didn't keep coming back, as Naga mentions in Awakening that he can be sealed every 1000 years with the Falchion? And if so how come the first exalt sealed Grima 2000 years in the past and a second seal (no pun intended) is never mentioned? (although someone had a hilarious headcanon about Grima being younger than Tiki and that the whole world ending rampage was a realy a godlike child's tantrum which makes a side-splitting amount of sense). Why do his and Validar's motivations make zero logical sense?

What happened in the end with the dragons? I mean we have Nowi who seems to be of unknown origin (btw why, you have like 5 types of dragons in your canon already) and Tiki who was apparently only preserved because she is the heiress of Naga and is put to sleep to avoid degenerating along her fellow Manaketes and prevent the destruction of the world by her powers (which is not really mentioned in Awakening which makes less sense in sending her to sleep), what about the rest? Nowi mentions Bantu on the glowy spot events but anything else? Where did Xane go? Gotoh I guess died of old age but Xane was not much older than Tiki and is also a divine dragon so he would live longer than Bantu so what happened to him? Tiki mentions at the end of FE3 that with the power of the Emblem she can be awake and avoid degeneration but does this apply to other dragons? But then why sepparate the orbs that gave the Emblem its power again? Considering this could potentially put Tiki, and by extrent other dragons, in danger plus wake the rest of the Earth Dragons from slumber.

What is the damned deal with Naga? Again, isn't she supposed to have been dead for millenia? Why is she a spirit-thingy and can bless people now? How could've she made the deal with the First Exalt if according to Jugdral's lore, the ritual involves drinking dragon blood? How could Grima destroy her in the future if she is already dead and according to FE3's lore she is WAAAAY more powerful than whatever it's implied for Grima? Why is her relation to Tiki never mentioned? (seriously, read the supports. I have a friend who didn't play FE3 and was really surprised when I told her Tiki was Naga's daughter).

They mention Mila but where's Duma? Why is the culture on what used to be Zofia so drastically different? Is Walhart descended from Alm? Why is Valencia here anyway? I know it shares geographical canonicity with Archanea, but its story was perfectly self-contained and has nothing to do with Archanea. If so, where is the Valencian Falchion? They repeated some of the maps from Gaiden, however why is the big ass volcano in the south? I thought it was in Rigel! Way up north, pretty close to the fort where you kill Walhart actually.

Is Archanea/early Ylisse the new land Ike reached after Radiant Dawn? (because of they way they talk about him he seems like a more modern figure yet Tellius is speculated to be the oldest land of the FE multiverse, also Priam wtf). Including Tellius to the Archanea/Valencia/Jugdral canon makes things convoluted as hell: are the Beorc and Humans the same species despite being created by different gods? Are the Laguz ancestors to the Taguel and Manaketes? But wait, manaketes are supposedly a much older, completely different race than humans. And if the Taguel ARE descended from Laguz their part-human children should not be able to transform and the only people similar to the Branded are because of FE4 Holy Blood stuff which makes things even more confusing.

Do the other games fit in via Outrealm? (There was a cool theory out there that the portions of land you see on the overworld map ARE the other continents based on their shapes but again headcanons are not canon. Also someone proved they just copy-pasted the outline of Ylisse on the corners). What is the deal with the Eirenjar if Anna is capable of visiting those particular worlds in a particular period of time? Why would Chrom ever worry about any wars if he can just make an army of ancient undead FE Heroes?

UGH SO MANY QUESTIONS.

Not everything about the retcons is bile and negativity though, I like Tiki's conversations with Lucina and the Avatar, they add (however little) to how the fuck Archanea transitioned to Ylisse. I like how the perception of Marth as an important historical figure changes with time and of course, I love that Tiki compares Chrom with Anri. The retcons in this game are infuriatingly vague yes, but when something DOES pop up and make a little sense or go with the spirit of their original canon I'm like a kid in a toy shop. And there's a shitton of references all across the game like Owain's quotes, the weapons you can obtain like Tyrfing and Armads, Nowi naming a hurt bird Janaff and Henri and Panne mentioning the Laguz. The little callbacks and sometimes even expansion of the old lore and characters isn't worth all the bile, but it is a very nice nod from the developers to the old fanbase. I mean, Leif's quotes in the DLC, wow. Also, DLC Palla, bless you, you are kinda like the pre-Fates Rally Man.

Also, Priam.

All in all, the fact that Awakening is a supposed sequel to Mystery of the Emblem only makes things more convoluted. The standalone plot shit can be solved very easily by simply regarding Chrom's backstory and weave the motivations in the dialogue instead of hammy good vs evil clichéd crap.

To fix the sequel plotholes we would need a ton of work. First it would be imperative to regard the Binding Shield's power line by line from FE3 AND Jugdral's lore with the dragon blood and the Crusader's Bloodlines. Then clarify Naga and Tiki's role in the story, perhaps by giving Tiki more plot agency since Naga has been dead for a loooong time. By mirroring Genealogy's story more closely, it is easier to integrate both the standalone plot bunnies and the retconning to both FE3 and FE4 and successfully create a sequel by making it more self-aware. Lucina and Chrom should realize that history is repeating itself, whether Grima is retconned to be an Earth Dragon or not.

This could also potentially generate interest in a FE4 remake, which is one of the better selling titles of the old FE games.

PART 2.5: What about Valm? Is that All you got?

PART 3: Gods, just end already!

EXTRA: A full-blown Rewrite of Awakening

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maligknights · 8 years

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Awakening as a Standalone: Ylisse's Flimsy Holy War

Spoilers! Did You Read the Intro and Disclaimer?

Strangely enough I was carefully excited for the story of Awakening, considering the last non-remake we got was Radiant Dawn which in some respects, took its story and characters to new heights. Perhaps it was because I had heard of its status as a far-off sequel to Shadow Dragon which as mentioned isn't my favorite story. So I wasn't too disappointed with the plot being a little too standard frachise-wise, I even appreciated the writting's attempts to throw in some genuine specks of grey into the conflict and the fact that the Julius character in this game is the co-protagonist is pretty cool.

Awakening has great memorable heroes who cut their way into our hearts with the superb voice acting and decent-to-great dialogue in the always expansive support conversations. They're well-defined and so much fun to watch, Chrom although more the standard more mature FE hero is very enjoyable and has a few traits to make him stand out from other Lord characters. Robin is interesting enough to keep anyone entertained despite being a blank slate. Lucina is a great, strong character, I like that it's incidental that she's a woman. Unfortunately, the fun and sometimes interesting characters don't make enough to strengthen the plot which has so many holes it should be served with white wine and bread.

The backstory of the Lord character, Chrom, is actually one of the more fascinating ones: his father waging a genocidal war against "the bad nation" for unknown reasons, provoking a well-justified tension between countries and between the people and its rulers. Suddenly we get a subversion similar to Daein's role in Radiant Dawn, where the "good kingdom" where divine right rules supreme suddenly isn't so "good" anymore. But then they threw all that into the crapper as soon as Emmeryn dies: Chrom and the Shepherds save the day and kill Gangrel off in revenge and the people of Plegia, moved by Emmeryn's sacrifice, cease hostilities completely.

This wouldn't be so bad on itself, except that all that bad blood between nations is swept under the rug instantly so we never get neither the previous Exalt's motivation for slaughtering the people of Plegia nor real consequences for Chrom invading it in a similar fashion to save Emmeryn. Hell Tharja's recruitment quotes imply Gangrel is a terrible king and the people wouldn't follow him willingly despite he embodies the reason Plegia is hostile to begin with. (Which makes even less sense in making him recruitable).

It is widely speculated that Chrom's father massacred Plegians in order to prevent the revival of Grima through their vessel who had been born sometime close to his middle child. Emmeryn and her siblings were very young when their father ultimately paid the price for his bloodshed, so it would be logical it was around that time the previous Exalt learned of the vessel's existence.

But headcanons aren't canon, so let's put this on hold for later.

The fact that Lucina and the Gen2 kids return in time to stop Grima in the past is a very nice idea that allows both Gens playable within the second half of the game. But it has one teeny tiny problem: the twist in itself, and especially with the way it was handled just destroys the stakes for Chrom and subsequently Robin. ( @damoselcastel made a wonderful rant about this, check it out if you have time).

Another thing that really bothers me about Gen2 is that Morgan has zero agency in the plot despite he/she and by extent their possible siblings, including Lucina herself, are of Grima's bloodline and have an unexplored potential to become vessels themselves.

Which brings us to the spawn of Satan, Robin. At the third act of our story, it is revealed that Robin is in fact, the human vessel of Grima. This would be interesting enough except for one teeny little detail: the plotholes.

Like literally, first five minutes of gameplay, BAM! plot hole. How is it that they never suspect the so-obviously-enemy-nation-mage Avatar character? They SHOW their mark of Grima on the cutscene where they meet and never question it.

Ok I understand Chrom is a complete trusting moron (and in an irritating twist, he's completely okay with it) and Lissa doesn't seem much smarter than Chrom, but even Frederick who seems so cautious and well-informed that they pick on his personality for laughs never says anything about it, DESPITE IT IS HIM WHO TELLS THE AVATAR ABOUT THE GRIMLEAL, WHO SUSPECTS OF SOME ASSHOLE WHO DESPITE BEING AN AMNESIAC TURNS OUT TO BE A TACTICAL GENIUS AND CALLS ON THEM FOR IT, WHO SHOULD KNOW WHAT THE MARK OF GRIMA LOOKS LIKE, OR AT LEAST INFER SOMETHING. IT'S THE ENEMY NATION, DON'T YOU THINK THE LIEUTENANT WOULD KNOW A LITTLE SYMBOLOGY?

Ahem, sorry. This inconsistency has bothered me since I started playing this fucking game.

Hell, I figured out the major twist of the Avatar character being the spawn of satan just by comparing the concept art. I had not bought the game yet, and the artwork SPOILED THE PLOT FOR ME.

How is it that Lissa's personal conflict about her not showing the mark of Naga and shit has so much focus on certain supports and NO ONE EVER QUESTIONS THE MARK OF GRIMA ON THE AVATAR'S HANDS? Why show the mark if they're not gonna talk about it until near the endgame?

Another interesting thing that the plot sweeps under the rug with the convenient excuse of Robin's amnesia is what was Robin doing before they had the opening vision where he/she kills Validar and Chrom? Given the location where Chrom and Co. find him, I would like to theorize that they were making a run to the Outrealm Gate. Possibly to a world where Grima's influence wouldn't affect them. I mean, Robin IS Plegian after all, so why else would they go to Ylisse and risk getting stoned by angry villagers? Also why was Robin alone? I guess someone THAT important and whom their mother (presumably found and killed by Validar?) would want to protect from their fate would go with at least a companion to help them out. Well if anything goes maybe the angry villagers killed them, or maybe Robin isn't that smart, who knows.

Not showing, or at least hinting Robin's full backstory aside his/her mother fled with them as a child robs them of a lot of depth and narrative potential. Their relationships to Validar, Aversa and their fellow Plegians are completely erased as their memory vanished. I believe Robin however should feel at least some guilt for betraying their countrymen after learning of their origin. Or perhaps Robin could feel this guilt as they mow through Plegia Chrom's Dad-style only they cannot explain why. Why not use Aversa's supports to complete a few pieces of the puzzle and leaving that for interpretation instead/aside of Aversa teasing them on their familial relationship? Or have them discussing their guilt trip with Henry, Tharja or even Gangrel who also ultimately sided with Ylisse in the war.

I would've liked it better if Emmeryn was a lot more interesting, a good machiavellian character would've been so much deeper I mean she has a LOT of potential with the father being a xenophobic maniac and all (I've seen some people making her into a Shakespearean villain on fics, that's really interesting), I just found the suicide plotline + amnesiac return too cliché and boring (even if she returned with a speech impediment and never recovers), that moment literally made me groan. Really loud. Also, we already have one two amnesiacs Emm, piss off.

The final nail on the coffin with Awakening's plotline is a major concern that basically renders the whole plot 90% useless:

Grima doesn't need the Binding Shield to revive himself. Kinda like Loptyr, all he needs is a vessel and a ritual. But one step further the Jugdrali god, he can regenerate his physical form through the vessel's Quintessence/life force.

I guess, he would still pursue the former Exalt's progeny so that Naga wouldn't give them the power to slay him nor return the same way (which I suppose is never speculated on anyway... though that would've been an interesting idea with Emmeryn). Plus destroy Naga's flesh and heiress, Tiki, and even try to prevent her becoming whatever state Naga is on now, similar to the events on the Future Past DLC. (Let's pin Naga for a bit, I'll come back to her later).

So all we can do is wonder: what the hell was Grima doing before his vessel disappeared? Eh, maybe he was chatting with Duma which kinda explains why he isn't present in Valm.

(Duma's blessings)

But anyway, speaking of villains...

Validar gains nothing from Grima's return. Grima's goal was to destroy the world, not to conquer Ylisse, not to destroy Naga and Tiki. He didn't intend to hail vengeance on the genocidal Exalts of Ylisse. We are never told WHY Grima wants to destroy the world, nor WHY Validar wants to revive him through his own bloodline. If Validar resurrects Grima, he will be destroyed as well.

Ah, that reminds me. It is NEVER exposed if Robin's ancestors made a pact similar to the one between Galle and Loptyr, so how the fuck is Validar's bloodline even a thing anyway? Also, if Grima's resolve is to destroy the world for no reason why would any human ever want to bring them back knowing the tale of Marth and Medeus? (And possibly the legends of Jugdral as well?)

Also, Grima's goal shits all over the motivation of Medeus. Gg Grima, gg. We don't even get a stupid twist like in pretty much every Final Fantasy game where the villain wants to save the world from suffering by destroying it.

I don't know what's the deal with Grima and the Risen either. It's the only thing that justifies Grima not being an Earth Dragon, sure; but then is Grima more like Duma and Formortis?

Validar seemed to have a motivation similar to Manfloy's: He would wish to bring retribution against the force that massacred his people twice. First by Chrom's father, then by Chrom himself. Pouring salt on the wound, Chrom even has the balls to have Validar's heir and Grima's vessel at the helm of the second war. But by disregarding Gangrel (who did state this was his very understandable motive) his goal becomes unclear.

Validar has absolutely no regard over the people of Plegia if he willingly and knowingly wishes to resurrect Grima to destroy the world. This is not even counting that it can only be done at the expense of his own family, which should imply that Validar is desperate.

We don't get much for Robin's mother and Aversa either, as previously mentioned. Aversa's backstory is fine and good but why not use her to locate Robin? Why waste the beautiful opportunity to give both a complex relationship with meaningless banter in their supports? Out of the final paralogue characters, Aversa was probably the only that made some sense in recruiting her because of that backstory.

Robin's mother doesn't get much, only a quick mention that she fled the palace and hid Robin. Oh the wasted potential for real drama.

She is swept under the rug along with Robin's everything, Validar and Grima's motivations and Chrom's stakes.

Why mirror Genealogy's stellar, tragic and wonderfully complex plot if you're taking away everything that made it interesting in the first place?

But enough about the standalone plot, we are here to expose why this game sucks so much as a sequel.

PART 2: Retconing:You’re Doing it Wrong

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