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cinnamonsikwate · 5 months

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i'm really curious about what marcille's mother's deal is. seems like she's not too big on the rest of elven society. here's what we know about her so far:

mage at a human royal court (adventurer's bible)

courtship with marcille's father donato lasted 17 years (adventurer's bible)

specialty is roast pork, which was also donato's favorite (chapter 81)

had a cheerful personality up until the point donato got too sick to eat his favorite food. her extreme emotional reaction to this left a lasting impression on marcille (chapter 81)

remarried to a gnome and moved away from the city at some point after donato died (adventurer's bible)

several portraits of her appear in marcille's nightmare (chapter 42); this is the second time we see marcille dream of her (chapter 3)

preferred non-elven food and didn't introduce marcille to any traditional elven dishes (chapter 74)

from the canaries' reactions in chapter 74, it appears elven society looks down on elves who go to live among and work for short-lived races. they seemed especially put off that she would have a mixed-blood child. when they're talking about the lyrikmumare to get marcille to trip up, marcille envisions her mother saying that the food "here" (i.e., the northern continent) tastes so much better. so the picture we're getting here is of an elf who has removed herself from elven culture, but the question is, did she do it willingly or was she forced to?

keeping her other actions in mind, i'm leaning more towards the former. the most intriguing thing for me is that she eventually married a gnome, despite elves and gnomes having infamously waged war against each other over differences in the practice of magic and presently tending to discriminate against the other on sight. (one thing's for sure — marcille's mother is winning the idgaf war!)

marcille never talks about her gnome stepfather though, and it's unclear what she thinks of her mother's remarriage. the timing of the remarriage is also a mystery. donato married marcille's mother when he was 32 (after having courted her for 17 years) and died at 82, meaning they were married for 50 years. marcille is also currently 50 years old, but we know she wasn't born immediately after the marriage: in chapter 81, donato's doppelganger says marcille was born when he'd started "getting on in years." based on marcille's memories of him and the established fact that the average tall-man lifespan is 60 years, i'd hazard that he was in his 50s then. this gives him 30 years or less with marcille — definitely less than 35, which we know is the age at which she left for the magic academy.

we don't know if marcille's mother remarries before or after marcille leaves (if before, than that's definitely a shockingly short time), but it's interesting that she chose to marry someone from a long-lived race this time. maybe this is her way of ensuring she spares herself another heartbreak? or maybe she *is* still heartbroken and is trying to cover it up.

but. i can't help but kind of agree with chilchuck in chapter 81, that marcille's parents are not blameless for marcille becoming the dungeon lord. since it's apparently well-documented, they surely must have known — as well-educated people — that mixed-blood children face not just discrimination but also mental anguish that comes with their unstable aging (not to mention the sterility). so the way they raised marcille feels frankly irresponsible 😭

anyway. i'd love to get spin-off content where post-adventure marcille and her mother meet again. i feel like there's a lot of unresolved issues there (that can of course be hashed out over a good meal).

#dungeon meshi #marcille donato #what can i say i'm often drawn to mysterious mother characters (often dead)#the toudens' mom too — we know even less about her!#does marcille's mother hate being an elf??#oh and if i missed any points feel free to reply #marcille doesn't really seem to have strong feelings about elven society #although it appears she might not have interacted with that many other elves before the canaries #i wonder if marcille realized fionil was also a half-elf #i'd like to see them interact as well. get fionil's perspective on lifespan disparities. seems like her dad is the elf #oh wait wait i was also wondering if it's still possible for marcille's mother to get pregnant #what happens if a mixed-blood child is from two long-lived races?#imagine marcille with a baby sibling #speaking of babies everyone kept making digs at her sterility but she never expresses an active wish for children #i just think that's interesting #calemonsito notes

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seawitchkaraoke · 13 days

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The thing is if your story is about teenage protagonists and antagonists you really can't go too deep into the "omg they are children why are they responsible for this??" "Omg they are children why are they getting blamed for [evil thing they did]" bc if you do that to much, your entire world is gonna unravel

You really only have a few options. You can

a) kill all the adults, tell a post apocalyptic story, very effective

b) ignore the fact that the adults should really be taking care of this, trust the audience to suspend disbelief or

c) have all the adults canonically be assholes

So... Why is Kipperlily fully seen as making her own choices and being responsible for choosing the ragestar and killing her party despite being 17 and probably influenced by the adults around her?

Bc well, if you excuse everything she's done, you'll have to do that with every future teenage villain in this world too. And you'll have to do the same with the bad kids! They're just children, Kristen shouldn't be held responsible for Cassandra getting corrupted again she's a child! Fabian shouldn't be responsible for all those pirates in leviathan getting killed he's a kid they shouldn't have listened to him!

And like. On a meta level saying all that is all good and fine, we can go well the adults are all assholes if we want but you can't pull that into the story if you want to still have any adult characters believably be good guys.

Doesn't mean this was the only way to handle Kipperlily but I do think any redemption would have needed more time and investment from the bad kids which, bc they are also teenagers and they never saw any reason to be sympathetic towards her, isn't there

Doesn't mean Kipperlily can't ever be redeemed but just "well she's just a kid" isn't enough to do it believably and well and an epilogue isn't enough time to do it in. If they'd brought her back she'd have either gotten a waaayy too speedrun not very believable redemption arc and/or the bad kids would have looked really naive

Let her be in hell, she'll probably rule the place in no time, she'll be happy there

#d20 #dimension 20 #fhjy #fhjy spoilers #it's like... azula is 14 in avatar #she's a wholeass child #and yet she is 100% taken seriously as a villain by both the teenage protagonists and the adults #now absolutely you can see the tragedy there i fucking love azula #but you never have a moment of anyone going ''oh but pull your punches she's just a kid'' bc well. they're kids too!#they don't kill her sure but that has less to do with azula getting more grace and more with avatar being a non murdery kids show

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tequiilasunriise · 8 months

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bitches really be out here publicly divorcing as if they weren’t in a secret relationship

#i love how lenore stomped over ready to throw divorce papers and also hands #and annabel just kept getting more and more into it liKE GIRL PLEASE!!! UR ASS IS GETTING BEAT BUT NOT IN THE WAY U WANT IT LIKE GIRRLL #girl please read the room and understand that Lenore is about to rip full custody of Morella away from u #ANNABEL LEE STOP GETTING TURNED ON MID DOVORCE CHALLENGE: IMPOSSIBLE‼️‼️‼️#all of the passerby and spectators stopping n staring at these two like #‘?????? did we- did we miss some LORE™️ or smth????’#oh to be part of that crowd who got to witness the full blown break up #in my peripheral I see some disgruntled hands exchanging money #apparently half of the academy had a bet wherher or not these two disasters were secretly fucking around together or not #some swore by their second death that white raven was DEFO doing some shit together #while others believed em to just be old fashioned enemies who are complete douches to each other nothing more nothing less #the ppl who betted them to be nothing more than fierce as fuck enemies/rivals. well. well i mean you TRIED ig. i mean u tried WRONG but hey #at least you still tried #nevermore webtoon #nevermore neverwhore #white raven #lenore vandernacht #annabel lee whitlock

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skitskatdacat63 · 3 months

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His bullfighting days aren't over quite yet.

#GET IT??? HIS *BULL*FIGHTING DAYS....hahah yeahhhh im so clever.....#suddenly had the urge to draw old man version matador nando bcs DC randomly called him a matador during quali #and im like oh my god....dc....youre so right....#hoping this piece works as some kind of blood sacrifice for his performance in about 7 hrs :)#get it blood sacrifice??? and hes cutting his hand in this piece???#thats supposed to represent two things.#1. hes doing a blood pact/sacrifice so his performance goes well #2. hes testing the sharpness so he can slay the bull!(and the...horse? 🤭🤭)#had a very interesting convo w Suzuki abt the implications of matador nando #based on a meme i made 😭 abt how our fantasy is that hes gonna be the bullfighter. hes gonna slay the bull #but the reality will be that he looks upon the bull from a distance #hes meant to kill the bull to overcome it. but he just ends up longing to be the bull. he fails.. hahaha get it....#lmao angst aside i think its kinda funny how i can have this reasoning for the matador au in two eras #thats long the old man has been here. has had two distinct periods of challenging the (red) bull #ANYWAYS!!!! hope ya like!!!!!! i think this is pretty relevant hopefully 🤭🤭#quite happy w this one even if it was less of an ordeal than most of my drawings #waaaahahhh hes so handsome!!!!! handsomest guy!!!!!!!#lol scheduling this like an hr before the race cause as i said. its an offering. its a sacrifice. i pray to the racing gods #tw blood #<- just a bit 🥰 he was originally just gonna be holding the sword but i realized ouch! sharp!!!#f1 #formula 1 #fernando alonso #catie.art.#fa14 #f1 art #f1 fanart #matador au

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squipdop · 2 months

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For your '6 years later' AU what does Max look like without his ponytail? Just asking out of curiosity

hello anon! have an early morning max! he looks like a disgruntled dandelion <3

and thank you for giving me a perfect excuse to draw even more fluffy hair

#Camp Camp #Camp Camp Max #Camp Counselor Max AU #nudel draws stuff #i am a bit curious what those emoji (??) at the end of that message were bc neither my phone nor my tablet nor my pc show me more than #squares.........#anyways. this was supposed to be a sketch but. well. mh.#also oh no the colors on my pc are. very different than on #my tablet. uh oh!#Ask #Anonymous #it gets less Large after he brushes it out methinks. but this was the sketch i liked the best so #rip to the other two max sketches who i had to brutally delete because they looked weird

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moeblob · 2 months

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You know, when I kept getting asked "so you didn't ever have severe pains before now?" in the hospital and I kept replying "I have a high pain tolerance" I meant it. However, there is only so much pain my tiny 4'9" body can hold... (aka I am sweating and in agony bc I'm getting told to use LESS severe pain meds so I don't rely on them too much and it is AWFUL)

#moe talks a lot #i was shaking earlier and despite the fact i sound like im gonna cry #and the fact that my mom can pick out im about to cry from pain bc im trying to take less pain meds #LIKE MY MOM IS INSTRUCTING ME TO DO #shes like well why arent you taking any pain meds #BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO AVAILABLE OPTIONS AND ON A SIX HOUR TIMER #i cant take both at once or else what happens to me if i hurt before the six hours is up #i have to manage them in a way that allows me to benefit from both and being told im doing it wrong #after being told well its your fault it got so bad because you never complained about pain before #YEAH NO JOKE? REALLY? I NEVER DID? because everyone acts like im too young to feel that kinda pain #oh youre hurting? just wait until youre older #and its currently agony to breathe again but that i guess is also my fault bc im trying to use pain meds #holy moly i just want to not get dizzy standing up cause wow dang #sure would be nice if the multiple incisions in my stomach didnt THROB every time i sneezed or coughed or cleared my throat #but since i didnt use much pain meds before because i would be mocked for being too much of a baby its like #welp damn now i could really use some and im being called out for being too reliant #anyway time to sleep more because that means im not noticing my pain #im literally smaller than most children and so i do understand my body size makes people worried about the medication intake #but can i please just go a day without being asked how much im taking or when i last took it or if im gonna cry #anyway sorry for the excessive rant today never really had surgery or anything so this is brand spankin new suffering

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carnivalcarriondiscarded · 4 months

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redid an old ref of an important Guy of mine!! i imagine they're very jingly when moving

extra:

and the cringe 2022 ref. looking at it makes me nauseous <3

#some of my characters take thought and effort #and some come to me in an abrupt dozing dream that makes my eyes snap open and nearly fall out of bed #trying to get to my tablet fast enough to jot them down before the imagine vanishes #i much like the newer version....#less complicated!! Softer!!! otter kitty <3 #oh the archivist <3 aka the nosiest bitch around <3 #scribble garnish #oc #original character #digital art #been thinking about my guys more.. it feels nice!#i dont allow myself to give them the attention they deserve #i focus too much on Outside things i think #i'd like to put them out there! some of them anyhow!#but anyway i didnt really change the archivist's outfit much cause. well. i quite like the original

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maskyartist · 4 months

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okay so "tomorrow" got late BUT heres my goofy ass Clay/Creek idea :)

the entire summery is under the cut but in case ur curious dont worry

Branch eventually finds out :D

more info under the cut!

Once the Putt Putts end up getting moved to Trollstopia (i imagine they have their own sectioned off area, they're not exactly "pop trolls" anymore yknow? they got a lil makeshift spot they're turning into a new mini golf course as we speak), Clay was properly hired as Viva's royal advisor. Aka her assistant :)

He loves doing all his usual serious boy work, but its gotten hard doing it by himself now that it's less "trying to keep a small community from burning down" and more "trying to convince all the other genre's theyre not feral as hell". its a lotta work, along with keeping up with Putt Putts and their wants and needs for their new kingdom

So Clay puts out a flier for an assistant position and after weeks of no luck, he gets a hit and hires the guy as soon as he can!

Creek has been living on the outskirts of Pop Village ever since the "Bergen" incident, too afraid of the consequences of his actions to try and rejoin the Pop Trolls. Instead he ends up watching them build a newer area with Trolls he's never even met before.

Creek begins exploring the Putt Putt Range and is happy to be greeted as a full stranger. This spot might be safe. Social, not too far from his "home" (a tucked away cave in the forest), and no one knows what he did. He can start over!

Even better, there's a job offer for Putt Putt Range specifically. Hes not one for hard work, but after living on his own for long enough, hes sick of having to fight for his own food. He'd rather have a paycheck and something MUCH better then whatever crap he finds lying around. Or has to cook. Even worse.

Clay may be desperate but Creek does do good work. Being his assistant is thankfully rather simple. Creek is in charge of smaller, less important file information, along with manning the front and taking requests for the Putt Putts on what should be done to the Range. All in all? It's peaceful. It really does feel like a fresh start, and even better? Clay is...really nice. Patient, understanding, he listens and Creek has been alone so long it's just nice to be heard.

Things could really take a turn for the better.

...and then he learns who Clay's brothers are and all hell breaks loose :)

(its a lot of back and forth, Clay learning new info and having to just sorta grapple with it, being caught in the middle of a family feud situation. He cant STAY with Creek/keep him on staff if he wants to keep Branch happy, but he also doesnt wanna FIRE Creek because he hasnt hurt the Putt Putts. He has no reason to fire him, family business is just that. Family business. Its not for a professional setting.

Clay's caught between a rock and a hard place, and he's gonna have to squeeze himself out before he breaks.)

#masky says #doodles #trolls dreamworks #trolls clay #trolls creek #trolls branch #cleek #clay x creek #we usin x's in this fandom??? i like it picasso (miss the days of x characters.../ are just so not fun)#the assistant's assistant AU #less an au and more my own personal goofy post-movie story but i like things organized :)#when i remember to do it >3>#ANYWAYS THEYRE GOOFY SILLY WITH A LIL BIT OF ANGST ITS PERFECT!#idk i like the idea of Creek just getting a place he can BE.#doesnt have to walk on eggshells doesnt have to find solutions he can just heal on his own surrounded by people who dont know him #feel thats the only way he can be semi-normal idk pop village was a lot i think his mellow attitude really didnt do well there #feel him and Clay just have good conversations about forgiving themselves and finding the little things to look forward to #AND THEN HERE COMES BRANCH WITH THE STEEL CHAIR-#oh my god anytime he sees Creek in that office hes two seconds away from smashing his face in with a led pipe #he RELUCTANTLY will be civil >3> For now.

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helmarok · 4 months

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romeo roleplaying as his favorite OC to beat the shit out of his other OC who he hates very much

#ganon draws #minecraft #mcsm #minecraft story mode #mcsm romeo #mcsm petra #i wanted to make them look more monstrous and reflect what my romeo design looks like lol #so here is this beast #and romeo is getting really into it but also hes projecting #hes yelling at jesse like he did fred #which is kind of why he hates jesse so much. he reminds him of the friend he killed and hes salty about feeling guilt #and he likes petra because she reminds him of himself in a way and he feels less guilty about everything #when he sees that oh well they did abandon me just like this #and he tries to get petra to feel the same as his champion #tries to get her to give up on jesse and be resentful just like him #and he has petra fight jesse to the death assuming she would actually do it just like him #ok ermmm the shit i have for this is too much to fit in tags but anyways. romeo is actually the worst

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dolokhoded · 7 months

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what's the buzz, tell me what's a-happening ???

#jesus chris superstar #not really this is just dolokhoded bible. but the quote is jcs !#(well i mean it could be. its not any specific production anyways.)#judas iscariot #he's the only one i tag always #but everyone's there. all the apostles plus magdalene and joanna and susanna though you can't see them very well #im not religious just insane.jpg #remember when i had an art tag #i SAID im gonna draw something proper and i DID IT OKAY #LOOK AT JOHN !!!!!!! OBSESSED WITH HIM !#my normal john design is much lamer but in this weird 70ish but not really in any real timeline 'verse he KICKS ASS #i was going for like. green eyed blonde baby cherub with him anyways but it really popped off with this specific design he's the only one i #changed so much between the two verses.#cause he looked so lame.#this is going to get less notes that like. the stupidest most half assed art i've done for fandoms that actually exist but im going to try #and not care. its fine. its fine #oh sorry for how shit the quality is btw. youre never going to get good camera quality here at tumblr dot com slash dolokhoded lol im #so broke . maybe i'll try to fix it someday.

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introspectivememories · 8 months

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do you ever think about how marco is one of the last people who knows how close shanks and buggy once were? do you think he ever looks at shanks and instinctively searches for buggy? i bet you marco looks at shanks surrounded by his crew and still thinks that shanks looks lonely. because back then, you could never find one without the other. if you insulted shanks, you insulted buggy and vice versa. they were attached at the hip. if you got one of them alone, you better savor it because in the next five minutes, the other one would come find them. like in my heart i know every time marco sees shanks these days all he thinks is where's the rest of you?

#marco who has first hand knowledge about how close shanks and buggy used to be #marco who never knows what to think when he sees shanks these days bc what happened? where's buggy?#where's the rest of you?#marco who hears about buggy's arrest and his first thought is 'oh fuck shanks isn't gonna like that' until he remembers that they dont talk #marco who privately thinks that shanks' less than who he used to be #marco who wonders what exactly happened to roger's cabin boys #i like to think ace asks him once why he always gets that funny look on his face whenever he sees shanks and marco doesn't know how to expl #the seas greatest mystery. bc how do you explain that these two people who were once so close don't even seem to think about each other #anymore. how do you explain just how well buggy and shanks clicked? how do you explain what they used to be to someone who has only ever #seen the broken remnants of what they are now?#head in hands head in hands head in hands #fushichou marco #marco the phoenix #op marco #akagami no shanks #op shanks #shanks one piece #buggy the clown #buggy one piece #op buggy #shanks x buggy #shuggy #one piece

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batsplat · 2 days

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as our resident Casey expert i wonder what do you think would have happened if marc and casey competed against each other? since casey retiring is so important for marc coming into motogp im always thinking abt the what ifs...

my initial instinct with this hypothetical is always 'that sounds horrible', though I do have more thoughts and opinions about it than that! marc obviously would have loved the chance to race casey, and casey has even been one of his picks of 'guys he would've liked to be teammates with' before, so, you know, clearly something there - and he does very much respect casey as a rider. I think it's quite likely that by the time marc entered the premier class, casey had already developed... I don't know if wariness is going too far, but maybe a little bit of unease or caution where marc was concerned. marc already very much had a reputation based on his 125/moto2 track record, and some of these incidents were controversial enough that the motogp riders commented on them. so take the phillip island 2011 incident where marc rode into the back of another rider:

the valentino quote serves as a bit of a benchmark here, given he was generally pretty pro-marc. yes, casey's phrasing is perhaps a little harsher, but unsurprisingly none of the riders were big fans of marc's behaviour in that particular incident

on the other hand, it's not like casey never sided with marc. take catalunya 2012, where marc was slapped with a controversial post-race penalty:

yes, casey's main complaint was about inconsistent stewarding - but still, he believed marc had been unfairly treated here. feels like these incidents were some of the only things casey and valentino actually agreed on in those years, so that's nice

that being said, it's hard to see how casey wouldn't have his issues with marc and marc's whole approach to racing. I did include some thoughts on the teammate question here, but mainly I'm going to pilfer the relevant autobiography passage:

"if a rider doesn't care about his own safety then it stands to reason he doesn't care about anybody else's either"... there's nobody really who embodies the 'doesn't care about his own safety' maxim better than marc. he was the young rider desperate to win, and I can't imagine casey would have enjoyed actually racing him much. casey mostly didn't enjoy racing valentino, after all, who is a generally a lot more selective with his aggression than marc is (though casey did have to experience some of the worst valentino had to offer in that regard). casey talked in his autobiography about getting a sense when he just wasn't really able to trust another rider on the track, how much it bothered him - and that exact lack of respect is something that's been pretty closely associated with marc. that doesn't mean he would immediately declare marc his enemy... he'd just want marc to change, to learn, to grow up, to start treating his competitors with a little more respect. the way casey talks about young riders, there is a sense in which he has more time for them than he does for valentino - whose lack of respect casey views as more integral to who he is as a rider. valentino isn't a bully on track due to the exuberance of youth, he's a bully on track when he thinks he can use it as a tactic of intimidation. then again, marc by this measure is worse... and I think very quickly casey would have grown pretty disenchanted with how marc approaches all his wheel-to-wheel racing, especially when it becomes more and more clear marc does not feel particularly inclined to change

it's always important to remember how recent the trauma of losing simoncelli was for the whole sport, and it coloured both dani and jorge's wariness of marc... but also (in my opinion anyway) their restraint in how they dealt with him. how they tried to stop themselves from actually making an enemy out of him, in part because they'd just had an experience of harshly criticising a rider for a whole year and then having to process his death. both dani and jorge actually had more public and more serious disagreements with simoncelli than casey did, but I reckon there would have been an element of that restraint with casey too... on the other hand, his experiences with marc would have left him feeling even more alienated from the sport than he already was - at times frustrated (like jorge was) less with marc directly but more with the regulatory bodies for not holding marc back, for not giving him a race ban or whatever to teach him a lesson. that being said, marc's shamelessness vs casey's stubbornness means that if they had direct on-track encounters and casey didn't like marc's post-race response... well, I certainly think that'd end up being a pretty tense situation, even if it falls short of active hostilities

worth including irl!casey's take on marc in 2013:

which, you know. it's not just that marc's a hard racer - casey is accusing marc of deliberately wanting to make the defeats extra painful for his opponents, of wanting to not just beat but humiliate them. anyone else that reminds you of? someone who is as motivated in securing his psychological victories as his actual ones? perhaps someone who has a bit of a history himself with casey?

let's bring in valentino. it's not that casey would really have begrudged marc his friendship with valentino, and he generally kept his hatred of valentino quite 'clean' in that he wasn't conducting any proxy wars or anything (for instance, I don't get the sense the vale/sic friendship ever affected his view of simoncelli... though I have very little to go on here either way). also, if nothing else in this timeline changes, we're assuming valentino in 2013 is fairly clearly the... fifth? best rider? kinda depends where dani would have landed I suppose (casey's retirement announcement did save honda from a bit of a headache)... but anyway what this means is that valentino probably wouldn't initially have been much of a competitive threat to casey. mostly he would have been consigned to the sidelines

that being said, I doubt casey would have massively enjoyed the whole laguna seca saga. unfortunately, we don't even really know what real life casey's stance on the copycat move situation was... though if I had to guess, in this timeline I'd say his position would've been, a) marc could and should have carried out that overtake two corners later, there was no need in that race situation to take that risk, b) still, it was valentino's slight error as he attempted to reclaim the position (in what was a pretty aggressive manner, it has to be said) that led to them both ending up off-track and fuck that guy, and c) the problem with 2008 wasn't just or even primarily the corkscrew overtake and it's annoying that that's the only bit everyone talks about. of course, there's also the question of whether casey would have bought marc's explanation that it was totally by coincidence that the overtake happened there... and again, complete guesswork, but my sense of casey is that he would have assumed marc was being at least a little bit dishonest. (which, you know... laguna's not an easy track to overtake at, but marc did prove with the bradl move that he was perfectly capable of overtaking after turn 8 - might not have been planning on the off-track excursion, but he was still attempting to overtake just ahead of a blind crest that happened to feed into the corkscrew lol.) I think casey by his honda days had calmed down a bit (though he still certainly had some conspiratorial tendencies), but I also don't think it's a stretch to imagine that he would've felt like he was a victim of a joke between the pair of them... not ideal

overall though, I reckon casey's main frustrations would have been less with the move itself and more with how it was discussed. in the presser, while joking with marc, valentino does take the opportunity to get in a jibe at casey for old time's sake. there's this clip, where he directly addresses livio suppo (at ducati in 2008, by then at honda) - specifically about how both casey and suppo criticised him for that overtake. in response, suppo says something about how he's grateful to marc because they finally got payback. valentino is later asked directly about casey's complaints in 2008 in this clip, and replies with the following:

would valentino have said this stuff with casey still in the paddock? well, yes! honestly, given valentino did very quickly lay off needling casey once he had retired, there's a good chance he would have said something worse. and marc would have laughed along at the whole thing. I don't know, I just don't see casey taking particularly kindly to that... he can hold a grudge, that man can, and at a certain point he'd probably be increasingly less willing to give marc the benefit of the doubt. interesting situation though, laguna seca '13 + casey is a very juicy scenario that could play out in several different ways

but I'm guilty of burying the lede here - there's a far more obvious reason than anything I've described above for why the casey/marc relationship would have turned sour. it's the simple fact that they would have been teammates which would do the damage all on its lonesome; they have radically different conceptualisations of how that dynamic is supposed to work and would inevitably have clashed as a result. the one commonality they do have is they don't see their teammates as potential friends, which is... also not helpful! I think they'd probably initially be fine on the interpersonal level - and, actually, given how the casey/valentino relationship played out and marc's general approach to his rivalries, I can see marc/casey more or less being able to maintain a minimum standard of politeness towards each other even at their worst. like, I still think they'd be able to smile at each other and do some small talk when face-to-face, but I also think everything else would be a complete disaster. I talked a bit about how marc approaches his teammate relationships in this post - and I'm not going to rehash too much of what irl!marc got up to, but I'll include some bits relevant to casey

from marc:

related to casey:

and dani comparing the two:

we do obviously even have actual real life controversy wherein casey thinks marc felt threatened by him and forced him out of honda... and this in a timeline where they weren't even direct competitors! if this is the level of tension a test rider role can generate, then if they'd actually been teammates...? yeah, no. casey thinks that teammates should cooperate - and he thinks that riders enforcing divisions within the box are essentially doing so because they are "afraid". marc has openly admitted to lying about what parts he likes to make sure his teammate doesn't get any edge over him. this is the thing, right: marc might think casey is a cool rider, would've liked the chance to race him and even be teammates with him... but this is the stuff he did to dani, who was one of his literal idols! this is his understanding of competition - (like valentino) he might love the fight, but simultaneously he'll do pretty much whatever it takes to win, because he considers this stuff fundamentally part of the game. casey does not. to casey, this kind of victory is dishonest. any kind of gamesmanship is a sign of weakness... the victory is worth less if you're accomplishing it like that

now, hey, maybe marc would never have been able to go as far as he did with dani because he wouldn't have the kind of performance edge that allows you to definitively impose your will within the team. I think it's a popular interpretation that marc wouldn't have won the title in 2013 if casey had been there, which... I mean, I think it's true that it would have been less likely - in that in a season with that much volatility, the more plausible championship contenders you have the less likely it is that any single one of them takes the title (same goes for instance if you add in a valentino who had not gone to ducati for two years and would have presumably been more competitive in 2013). but it's not like casey would have been the defending champion and the clear class of the field... partly due to injury, he ended up finishing in third in 2012. jorge and dani didn't win the 2013 title in part as a result of their own injuries, and who knows how casey would have fared... like sometimes it's just luck of the draw really. you can be the better rider and still not win the title, shit happens. I think for as long as a more or less healthy-ish casey stays in the sport, it would have been unlikely that marc establishes quite the same performance edge as he did over dani... but, well, if anything that would have meant he would have fought even harder out of perceived necessity to win the internal honda wars

it's the kind of thing that can make a relationship quickly deteriorate, especially with a prickly character such as casey, and it's entirely plausible that dynamic would have become strained at best and horrendously toxic at worst... sooner rather than later. and the thing is, this environment would affect marc considerably less than it would casey. again, it's the fact that he relishes the fight... he's very good at shrugging off (most) criticism and thrives in that kind of tension. the emotional fatigue that this scenario generates would be painfully lopsided, where casey offers harsh criticisms and means them and is endlessly frustrated with marc's approach, while marc... doesn't really care. at least dani also had a questionable manager who was conducting behind the scenes warfare on his behalf - casey doesn't want to play these games at all. he just wants to ride a bike, and marc is never going to allow him to live in peace as long as he's an internal threat. if casey were exposed directly to all of that from marc, I doubt he'd walk away from the experience with a particularly positive impression of him

does he walk away? I think there's a decent chance that casey would have ended up so disillusioned with the whole thing that this would have been what pushed him into retirement. if he wants to get out of that mess, let's say after two years, his options would have been pretty limited. yamaha is closed off and I'd struggle to think of a scenario in which either jorge or valentino would have been particularly interested in a direct swap (also, if you're sick of being marc's teammate, you're probably not gonna be jumping at the chance to be valentino's instead). I suppose you could go back to ducati (which he did return to as a test rider so it's not like those bridges were permanently burnt), and maybe casey could do something special even with *gestures* that version of the bike. really though... I think enough would have been enough for him. regardless of the actual balance of success between the pair of them, my guess is marc wins that war because he's happier to get nasty and because he wants it more. casey has his two to four titles... he's done. let him go fishing

#wow sorry i feel like this is a bit depressing? 'casey would retire at age 29 rather than 27' feels like a mean place to take this #maybe this is too cynical.... feel free to disagree. just personally really struggle to see anything other than disaster #i think it's a fun scenario but in all seriousness as someone who is like. generally invested in casey finding some peace in life #i'm quite glad he didn't have to go through it. good chance he gets another title but he left for a reason #'oh nice an ask i can answer quickly' i think to myself #and well i did write it quickly but i realise it's still. quite long #babynflames #marc marquez #casey stoner #//#mm93 #cs27 #2013-15-ish vale/jorge love and peace era were already kinda looking over at the honda wars and going. what's all this then #in this timeline i reckon they'd be even more pointedly cooperative. occasionally give a friendly thumbs up at the explosions next door #valentino a big believer in letting others do his dirty work for him so it'd be very [carefully neutral smile]#'EYE didn't think there was any problem with marc's move... maybe casey should consider not leaving a gap next time?' (there was no gap)#he does do that a littleeee with jorge but idk it felt less malicious... i think on a personal level he enjoyed riling casey up more #more genuine dislike for jorge imo but couldn't quite help himself with casey with the constant bickering... it's complicated #where would marc/casey have their first on-track incident? reckon cota would actually be a good shout - get it in nice and early #vibes of a good casey track but not marc cota levels good but marc's still a child... idk you need to get them in the same bit of track so #otherwise some time in the assen to brno stretch.... let's say *spins wheel* indianapolis #can u imagine if marc did the corkscrew move on CASEY... get rid of bradl (sorry dude) what does THAT podium look like what are the vibes

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