#john norster | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

thecostumeplot · 3 years

Text

Bonus 1: Bridgerton

Please consult these links for accompanying images: Bridgerton

Both

Welcome to The Costume Plot.

Jojo

I'm Jojo Siu.

Sarah

and I’m Sarah Timm. We're professional designers with a passion for costume design and the performing arts. Our podcast does contain spoilers. Accompanying slideshows for each movie are linked in the episode description.

Jojo

We hope you'll join us every other week as we delve into the wonderful world of costume design in The Costume Plot. [music]

Jojo

All right! Welcome to our bonus episode!

Sarah

Surprise!

Jojo

Extra episode this month. I'm really excited. We, of course, are trying to cover some smaller things around... you know, this is going to be our first of many bonus episodes, hopefully.

Sarah

Yeah, this is gonna be a little more informal, like, not as much research. Just kind of a discussion about what we think. And of course, we're talking about "Bridgerton."

Jojo

Yep.

Sarah

We have-- I know that you said that people have been asking you. People have been asking me too, if we're going to cover it. So here it is.

Jojo

[laughs] Yep!

Sarah

You're welcome.

Jojo

I know. It's finally here, the episode. [laughs]

Sarah

Hopefully we're not too late in the game, I feel like it's still getting a lot of buzz. So I feel like we're right in the sweet spot to tell you about.

Jojo

It is, it is. And like I'm-- you know, there's been so much other coverage of "Bridgerton." So this is certainly not going to be hugely different than maybe whatever else you were hearing...

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

...about "Bridgerton." But these are just kind of our thoughts as costume designers, as people who have been doing this for a long time. Just to kind of share, you know, instead of the bashing, maybe, that we've been hearing about the show. Talking a little bit about kind of... what are the purposes behind it? And how to really talk about design in an intelligent way. And maybe not so not spending so much time on the negative, I guess.

Sarah

Yeah, I don't think we're gonna get too spicy, I don't think we're gonna have really hot takes about it. I think that...

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

...in general, we can usually find positives and negatives in pretty much everything and...

Jojo

Very true.

Sarah

...that doesn't mean that it's bad, or not worth our time.

Jojo

Mmhmm. Before we get into that, I did want to make a quick announcement for our next month's episode, we are going to be covering our first musicals, which I'm super excited about.

Sarah

Woohoo!

Jojo

But one of the ones that we do want to cover is actually going to be "Meet Me in St. Louis." And the reason why we wanted to bring this up is because they do actually have online Zoom performances. So this theater, it's the Irish Repertory Theatre in New York, they're an off-Broadway theater, they do a lot of really great work. But for this particular production, they are doing a predominantly Zoom production. So it is going to be "live theater," but all over zoom. So I'm really excited about how this is going to be done.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And excited to see this take, because this is a really great show. It's actually one of my favorites, it was one of the ones I did in high school.

Sarah

Oh!

Jojo

And I was really involved on like, every aspect of the production. So it has a really special place in my heart. But it's gonna be directed and adapted by Charlotte Moore. And I'm really excited, it's gonna be more of a costume-coordinated piece. But we're in talks with the actual theatre to just, you know... eventually we will get in touch with the lady who's going to be coordinating. But she's going to talk a little bit more eventually about some of the the work that she had to do on a zoom production versus what we would typically do on a live production.

Sarah

Yeah. Yeah.

Jojo

So if you get the chance to see it, it's completely free. They do try to ask for donations if you have the capability to give donations. But it is the... irishrep.org is their website, just look for "Meet Me in St. Louis." And you'll be able to get free tickets, and you just have to reserve your spot. They do have only a few remaining performances. So it's... January 31st is their most current upcoming one. And then they are also performing on February 3rd, the 11th and the 21st. So if you get the chance, please go and see that performance if you can, so hopefully you can kind of be involved with us. And that way when we go over the show in the episode, then you'll know what we're talking about.

Yeah, we're gonna have pictures, and the reason we got in touch with the theater is to see if they could send us some of their pictures. Because we were worried about whether we could take screencaps of the show, and if that would even interrupt our own enjoyment of watching it. Because it's not something that we can rewatch, I looked and it was like, you have to catch it. It's on YouTube Live, so you have to catch it at the exact time or you're gonna miss it. So...

Yeah.

Sarah

...they were super nice and...

Jojo

Yeah!

Sarah

...seemed excited that we were featuring them, which is so sweet.

Jojo

I know.

Sarah

And we're hoping that the designer can answer a few questions before the episode, but if not, we definitely want to have her on for a future interview episode.

Jojo

Yeah, definitely. What a great way to connect theater artists in this way, too.

Sarah

Yeah. And I mean, I miss theater so much that I'm excited to talk about theater with people. So...

Jojo

Yeah!

Sarah

...that prospect is very exciting to me.

Jojo

Very cool. So anyways, that's my little plug for next month. So hopefully, for our audience listeners out there, just be prepared to hear about "Meet Me in St. Louis."

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And hopefully go and see it online.

Sarah

Mine is much easier to access. I'm going to be covering "Hamilton." So I think a lot of people have seen it on Disney+, so just... you know, gird your loins. Prepare yourself. [both laugh]

Jojo

It's going to be an exciting episode.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So yeah, back to "Bridgerton." Just to give you a little bit of background about the show, for those of you who have not seen this yet, I wanted to kind of talk a little bit about the directors. Which, in this case, there were actually four different directors. So each of the directors took two different episodes each. We have Sheree Folkson, who has done the very obscure movie "The Decoy Bride," but it's got David Tennant in it. So any of you "Doctor Who" fans out there, she did that movie, which is great. Alrick Riley, who's done a lot of random episodes here and there for "NCIS," "How to Get Away with Murder," "The Good Doctor," "Lucifer." Julie Anne Robinson, who has also done kind of sporadic episodes on "Like Magic," "One for the Money," and "Brooklyn Nine-Nine." And then Tom Verica, who actually does a lot of acting, he was a main actor in "How to Get Away with Murder" and "The Closer," and then he's directed a few episodes of "The Umbrella Academy," "Scandal," and "Private Practice." So these are all directors, obviously, that come with a little bit of experience. The other thing I wanted to mention too is that for the costume team for this show, it was a four person co-costume team. But it was pretty much headed by Ellen Mirojnick, who of course is known for work in "The Greatest Showman," and the newer Maleficent sequel. Victoria Quelch is one of the other costume designers, or co-costume designers. She's probably the most brand new costume designer. She doesn't have other projects under her belt, but this was a great way for her to get involved with a really star team.

Sarah

Oh, yeah, this is making a big splash. So this is a good...

Jojo

Absolutely.

Sarah

...thing to get your name out there.

Jojo

For sure. And John Norster, who's done a lot of assistant and associate costume designing, but he also worked on "Maleficent," he did "Aladdin," "Justice League," "Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales," and also "Inception."

Sarah

Ooh.

Jojo

Among many others. And then John Glaser, who did a lot of TV costume designing, so he's done "Gotham," "Person of Interest," and "Brotherhood," also among many other listings. So just to give you just the sheer volume of these teams, because this show is humongous.

Sarah

Yeah, it makes sense that the team is so big, because, well, they built 7500 costumes. That's what we've learned in our research. And I could tell watching the show, I was like, "They built ALL of this." Like, you can just see it, you know?

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

Except for stuff on background and stuff.

Jojo

Mmhmm. And I think... I can't remember where I wrote it. Oh, here it is. So it took them five months for a team of 238 people to build the 7500 pieces.

Sarah

Whew!

Jojo

5000 costumes, full body costumes, were in front of the camera, and 104 costumes were for Daphne Bridgerton alone.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

So like, the sheer amout of just volume...

Sarah

Imagine how many fittings! Like...

Jojo

It's insane. Like, they must have had to-- like, no one slept for these five months.

Sarah

That's like a month of fittings.

Jojo

Pretty much. And like, multiple fittings.

Sarah

Crazy.

Jojo

'Cause, you know, even though these these costumes are not-- not all of them are quite as incredibly crazy to build as, you know, say... Queen Charlotte's costume.

Sarah

Oh yeah.

Jojo

In the 18th century. But you know, it takes more than one costume fitting for a lot of these. Sometimes you don't get that and you just gotta figure it out. So it's pretty amazing what this costume team has accomplished in this short period of time. Because, you know, five months to some people sounds like a lot of time, but for that many costumes, it's... that's nuts. [laughs]

Sarah

Yeah. Yeah. In my research, she said that she hired five cutters and two tailors just for the principles, which-- I'm not sure who counts as a principal in that case, but like... that's... that already seems like not enough people for that many costumes. [laughs]

Jojo

I was gonna say, that team sounds so ridiculously small. For the amount of cost-- like, for 104 costumes for one of the leads alone? [laughs]

Sarah

I know! Oh, it's just-- it's a real big-- like, it's hard to even wrap my mind around how big of an undertaking this show was.

Jojo

Yes, yeah. So just to kind of introduce that before we really start talking about the costumes. Yeah, it's just, it's pretty insane. We did want to go over some of the designer's thoughts on this, because I think one of the biggest things that we've been hearing from a lot of other critics about the costumes is, of course, the historical accuracy.

Sarah

Yes.

Jojo

And there is nothing historically accurate about this show.

Sarah

Well, the silhouette.

Jojo

I shouldn't say... yes, I shouldn't say "nothing." [both laugh] I did want to read a really quick quote from one of the interviews with Ellen. She said her color palette was shifted, and this is paraphrasing, of course. But rather than doing the 1815, or 1811 to 1820, which is really the time period of the Regency era that we're in, she chose to be inspired by the more 1950s and 1960s silhouettes. And then she said one of the big inspirations was the "Christian Dior: Designer of Dreams" exhibition. And then she also had very specific restrictions and rules on set. So she banned muslin dresses, which, as you know from our last episode on "Emma," muslin dresses were very common for this time period. She totally did away with that because she felt that they were too limp. So a lot of the choices in fabric that she made for this show were definitely much more structured and not quite as light and... cottony, I guess, in feeling as as the typical muslin. And then she also got rid of bonnets.

Sarah

Yes. Yeah, that's a that's a pretty big deal.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

So you said that she she did 50s and 60s silhouettes? Because in the research I saw, she said she used the color-- that was the color inspiration.

Jojo

The colors. Yeah.

Sarah

Okay. Yeah

Sorry, colors, not the silhouettes. I have a quote here about the fabric. She said that silk and fancy stuff wasn't being imported from France like it usually was because of the war, which is why people were using cottons more often.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

So it is very interesting to see Regency done in fabrics that aren't muslin, and you know, gauzy cottons and stuff, because that's what we're so used to. And I found it really refreshing. I think it's really vibrant and fresh.

Jojo

Yeah. And I think a couple of her interviews talked a lot about her wanting the costumes to be really "accessible," was the word that she used. And, you know, "accessible" means different things to different people. But I think where she really saw that the most was with Lady Danbury, and Simon in particular. And we will be talking briefly about those.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And of course, we're only really giving you a snippet, because, of course, this is our bonus episode.

Sarah

Yeah, yeah.

Jojo

We don't have the time to go through every episode of "Bridgerton." Because there's so many costumes!

Sarah

That could be a whole season of podcast episodes, is like, every episode.

Jojo

Oh, yeah. For sure.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

Breaking it down.

Sarah

We're not doing that. [laughs]

Jojo

So yeah, so we will talk a little bit more about what that accessibility really looks like visually. But yeah, it was just really interesting that she said that. And then the other thing I wanted to mention to you was just the fact that she really kept Queen Charlotte very accurate to the true Queen Charlotte, who decided to stay in the late 18th century silhouette. So apparently, the real Queen Charlotte did that in real life. And she wanted to honor that same idea by putting the queen and her court in all of these 18th century gowns, even though the rest of the lead cast is is mostly in kind of more Regency era, pushed about 20 years later.

Sarah

I was wondering about that, because like, in my research for "Emma," I was talking about how people didn't want to be associated with the French aristocracy because of the revolution. And then I saw Queen Charlotte dressed in a Marie Antoinette silhouette. And I was like, "What?" [both laugh]

Jojo

"What's happening?" [laughs] I think I had that same thought initially. So it's cool to hear what Ellen's thought process was behind that.

Sarah

Mmhmm. Yeah. And I mean, her costumes were like, incredible. Obviously. All of them are incredible. [laughs]

Jojo

Yeah, yeah. And I will say the other thing, and we've talked a lot about how much costumes can really affect different things when we change and shift color. And I think this show was a lot more about the color and the vibrancy than it was about historical period accuracy.

Sarah

Yes.

Jojo

Which, again, going back to that whole 1950s-60s color palette, that's exactly what she's done. She's really taken that and applied it over a period, you know, costume silhouette, and made it sort of more contemporary. Because that is kind of the trend we're returning to a little bit today, is we still see the 1950s and 60s as a very classic color and silhouette. So I think she did a really good job of marrying kind of a more contemporary style and emotion with that period, without making it seem too dated.

Sarah

Definitely. I have a quote from her about sort of accessibility. She said, "The Shondaland aesthetic"--and "Shondaland" is referring to Shonda Rhimes, who's like the exec producer, right?

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

"...usually errs on aspiration, beauty and lusciousness in a way that makes the modern audience want to be in the story." So I think that's what the accessibility is. It's like, if you see a beautiful Regency gown, people like us will be like, "Oh, my gosh, I want it." But like, an average person might not feel that way. But when you bring it into 2020 with your fabrications and your colors, it makes people go, "Oh my gosh, I want to go there, I want to put on that dress, it's so pretty." You know?

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

So that's-- it makes the audience... it draws them in, in a way that strict period accuracy sometimes doesn't.

Jojo

Mmhmm. And it's interesting too because, you know, we-- again, we're talking about color vibrancy, but I think about color psychology so much. And this-- the colors that she's chosen, and the textures that she's chosen to use, it kind of has that same feel as, you know... I mean, this is from a while ago, but that sweater that we talked about for Chris Evans, you know. It's things like that, where she's able to take the subtleties of the texture and color. And that's what draws the audience in.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

Like, for some reason, I always think about this quote that like, you know, the McDonald's arch, the red and the yellow actually makes us salivate. And that's why people get drawn into McDonald's. And it's like, kind of the same thing, this vibrant color makes us sort of salivate over these costumes.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And kind of get drawn in and get sucked into this world. So I think she's done a really good job of that. And I did want to at least point that out, despite the kind of all-over-the-place historical silhouette accuracy. Like, I think outside of that she's done a really great job.

Sarah

Yeah. Yeah, we were talking about this before we got on mic, but a lot of the people who are talking about the costumes in the show make the whole discussion about the lack of period accuracy. And I think that kind of misses the point. Because the designer has straight up said that that's not what they were going for, so to act like you're sticking it to her by telling her that it's not accurate is just kind of beside the point. Like you're...

Jojo

Right. Right. You've kind of missed the mark already.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

She straight up told us that that's not the point. [laughs]

Sarah

Yeah, it's like, "Yeah, we know that." Like, let's talk about it in words that aren't those things, you know?

Jojo

Yeah, that's not the language we're following here.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So. So yes! I think we wanted to focus on, obviously, a very specific scene. And this is sort of later in the season. So it's not really a spoiler scene, but it is something that we felt like was a good representation of kind of one of the more party scenes, I guess.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And we both focused on a female look, as well as a male look. And again, this is pretty casual. So we're not going as in depth as our normal episodes.

Sarah

Yep.

Jojo

But Sarah, why don't you start with your looks?

Sarah

So yeah, we picked a specific episode. And we were talking about like, should it be the first episode? And then we were like, "We need people to know that we watched more of it than just the first episode." [both laugh] So we picked episode seven, because it has a scene that we both really like, which is the scene where Daphne goes to the married ladies' gambling night.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

So I'm going to talk about Daphne's dress that she wears there. Because I think it's a fabulous example of everything we've been talking about. Specifically color wise, the Bridgerton family are all in these cool powdery blues, and Daphne really stays in that land for pretty much all of the show. So this dress is a satin, and I just really loved the... it's like a powdery blue satin, and I love the-- where's my...? There it goes. I love that surface decoration on it. And... what's her name? Mirojnick? Is that how you say it? [both laugh]

Jojo

Yeah. Ellen.

Sarah

Ellen! Ellen did a lot of hand beading.

Jojo

Oh my gosh.

Sarah

So I think that this one might be an example of that. Because it has these beautiful iridescent Aurora Borealis sort of crystal beads on it.

Jojo

Guys, this is one out of 104 costumes...

Sarah

One hundred and foooour.

Jojo

...made for this actress. And this was hand beaded! So crazy.

Sarah

I think it's a great-- this is a great example of what we were just talking about, where she did the period silhouette, but out of modern fabrics. And I actually have a picture of her in a fitting, from one of the articles, right here. Isn't that fun.

Jojo

Ooh! That's great.

Sarah

Yeah. I feel like with 104 looks, that many fittings, the actress just kind of feels like a mannequin at that point. [laughs]

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

I got a picture of the back too. It has a nice long train. I noticed a lot of trains in the show.

Jojo

Yes.

Sarah

And I was like, "Is that a thing that they did?" And I think it is, if you're just kind of around the house, or if you're going to a fancy occasion, you'd have a train.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

Yeah, I really like this. Her hair is down, which is like... meh. You know. [both laugh]

Jojo

Very natural, very contemporary.

Sarah

Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about corsets, actually. I know this is not a picture of her in her corset. But I feel like it's a good time to sort of plug in this discussion that we want to have. And one of the first-- I think it's in the first episode, there's a scene of someone getting tight laced into a corset.

Jojo

I think that's the opening scene.

Sarah

Yeah, you might be right.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And I... this is where I'm gonna get a little spicy. [both laugh] I have a problem with, like, how corsets are portrayed in media. Because people nowadays think of them as this torture device, where everybody was squishing their organs and women couldn't breathe. And some people were doing that. It depends on the period, actually, like some of the ideal silhouettes had a tiny, tiny waist and some didn't. But to the women of the time, it was like wearing a bra. And most of them were not squeezing the daylights out of their own bodies. And it's not like a strictly unhealthy thing, to wear a corset. So...

Jojo

Especially for this time period.

Sarah

Yes.

Jojo

I think that was one of the loudest things that I heard, was that that whole lacing situation would not have been appropriate for this time period.

Sarah

Yeah!

Jojo

Because, again, you're cinching in the waist in that image. And really, the silhouette at this time was not about the cinched-in waist.

Sarah

Correct.

Jojo

It was very much up at the empire, so...

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

...so that whole scene seems a little bit kind of illogical or irrational. Considering the dresses they're wearing.

Sarah

It just contributes to the weird reputation that corsets have.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And I think it's a little bit lazy, because every period film has one of those scenes now. And it's like, show us something else.

Jojo

Yeah. Do something different with that. [laughs]

Sarah

Yeah. And then the other thing is the lack of chemise, which-- for those who don't know, a chemise is kind of is an underlayer that goes under your corset. It would-- it's kind of like a little nightgown-looking dress--slip--sort of thing, usually made of cotton, you know, really breathable and comfy. And it's to prevent your corset from, you know, rubbing or irritating you.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And this show also shows... I can't remember what character it is. But someone is taking off their corset and has like, full like bruises or blisters from it? And I was like, "Give me a break!" Like...

Jojo

That's not accurate.

Sarah

Where's your chemise?! [laughs]

Jojo

Right. And if you think about it, the chemise kind of acted like, you know... I guess our modern equivalent would be like the men's undershirt, right?

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

It's sort of that inner layer of-- you have something underneath the outer clothes, because that's the layer that would also be your sweat layer, essentially.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And that's what would be getting dirty and get rewashed over and over again.

Sarah

Correct.

Jojo

And then they wouldn't have to wash the outer layer as often.

Sarah

Yep.

Jojo

So the chemise didn't just function as an inner layer to protect you. It also was a very practical garment.

Sarah

Yeah, it's like undies, it's your innermost layer. Yeah. So that's... that's our take on that.

Jojo

That's our spicy level, guys. [both laugh]

Sarah

That's as spicy as we get. And then I'll move along to Simon. He doesn't go to that gambling party because he's a man.

Jojo

[laughs]

Sarah

But I wanted to talk a little bit about his wardrobe broadly. I have a quote. The designer says, "He's traveled the world and has come back to London. So he brings with him another sensibility." And then also his sexiness was a big factor in deciding what he was gonna wear. And I think we can really see that in the fact that he rarely is wearing a stock, or a high collar.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

His throat is pretty much always exposed. So the stock is like the tie... that ties... it's like-- usually it's white for men in this period. And it would wrap several times around their neck and then tie in sort of like a bow at the front. And he, if he's wearing anything, he wears sort of like a loosely knotted cravat, which you can see in this picture of him in the gray velvet outfit. And he, like-- I think there's a real sexiness to the fact that his throat is always exposed. I mean, he's beautiful to look at, so... [laughs]

Jojo

Yep.

Sarah

...and then I love the, you know, luxe-ness of the fabrics here. I love gray. And-- but he also, as sort of like a visual foil to Daphne, is usually wearing something warm toned to contrast with her cool tones. So he's usually wearing burgundy, or butterscotch-caramel colors. And in this one, he has a red little cravat thing. And I think that that's really effective because he's like, sensual, you know, and worldly. [laughs]

Jojo

It's very much a passion color.

Sarah

Yes, exactly. Yeah. So that's Simon. Did I...? Oh, I think I have one of him... there. This one is him in his shirtsleeves and a different vest. And it's like a brocade, sort of paisley pattern.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And it's-- once again, it's like his necktie is open and he's looking very-- sort of half undressed. But like, very luxurious, because the neckties are silky, and then the waistcoat is very rich looking too. So it's just like, you can see sort of the worldliness and also like, the money, and the sexiness, all in his outfits.

Jojo

Yay!

Sarah

I think that's all I have to talk about.

Jojo

Nice and brief.

Sarah

[laughs] Yeah. We're just, you know, breezing through it.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

We don't want to be here forever.

Jojo

And again, there's so many characters in the show that it's not possible for us to cover every single one of them with the time we have. But yeah, we did want to touch a little bit on some of the, you know, main leads. So I love that you focused on our two-- you know, there really are our two leads in this story.

Sarah

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Do you want to tell us what you pulled?

Jojo

Yeah! Okay, so let me share my screen. So I focused on some kind of more peripheral characters. But I love that the characters I actually focused on are basically like the support system for Sarah's two characters.

Sarah

Mmhmm. [laughs]

Jojo

Anthony Bridgerton is the brother, the older brother, of Daphne, who... he's kind of taken over the family now because the father's just not in the picture. And so he's kind of had to take on a lot of that burden. And then of course, Lady Danbury is the one that I did want to focus on first, and Lady Danbury in the same way is kind of the the familial support, who kind of raises Simon.

Sarah

I love her.

Jojo

Me too.

Sarah

I wanted more of her.

Jojo

I just... I love her character, and I just wish that they had incorporated her more. She just-- she's like, a no-nonsense character. Everything about her is very... I wouldn't even say "masculine" because she's very, very feminine the way she dresses, but just the way she carries herself is very masculine in a lot of ways. And so the dress that I focused on at this gambling party... she appears in, of course, that deep maroon that's very reminiscent of Simon as well.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

And so I think Ellen did a really good job of really tying these families together by color.

Sarah

Yes.

Jojo

And that's really how she's separated each of the different worlds, and you really see the difference in class and status as well. So for Lady Danbury... let's see, I think the other picture is... yes, this is it.

Sarah

Oh, I love.

Jojo

And you never really see a full body picture of this, because this is film, but I love that this really does honor the Regency. One of the things that I really took into account was that they-- she's the only one at this party in full long sleeves. There's one other lady that I think is slightly older, and even she only had a quarter, like a three quarter sleeve. But Lady Danbury, as the host of this party, is the only one with the full kind of longer... and again, there's something very masculine about the sleeve that they've given her. And they've even kind of... what did I write? That they have a flared cuff on her sleeve, which you can't really see that well in this picture, but it's, you know, it's right at her wrist. And it's also actually even a little bit longer than her wrist, which I'm not really sure if that was like... what the intention of that was. It almost makes it look like it's too big for her? But there's something kind of masculine about the shoulder width that they've given her in this particular look. And then the fact that they've given her this really structured kind of pleated area that kind of like frames her bust. So again, this kind of very masculine, almost spencer jacket looking garment, or pelisse garment that we talked about from "Emma." That's worn over this really beautiful--same thing as Simon--that velvet kind of luxurious fabric for the dress underneath. One of the things that I did want to point out with her... it's interesting because even her hairstyle, it's sort of like a halfway between the Marie Antoinette kind of piled-up look...

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

...and the more natural look of Daphne and the more contemporary kind of Regency styling that they've chosen to give to this world. So she's-- it's interesting to me that she isn't quite the royalty character, but she's almost like the one step down from Queen Charlotte.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

So there's kind of different hierarchies of who all these people are and what status they belong to, and what wealth bracket they belong to. So I wanted to focus on that. She again is also in those really warm kind of passionate colors, because I do also see her character as very passionate. So I really loved that. And I think they did a really good job of tying her in with Simon very well.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And even though they're not in the scene together in this particular frame, you can definitely see the association between the two of them.

Sarah

I want to say about that sleeve, I've seen that extended sort of cuff--that like sort of hits the knuckles--I've seen that happening. That's like a now thing, I think that they have added because I've seen it in like some high fashion menswear where like, it'll be like a blazer, like a tailored jacket, but then the cuff flares out at the bottom and like...

Jojo

Right, right,

Sarah

...goes past where it usually does.

Jojo

It's like, intentionally longer.

Sarah

Yeah. So that's a fun contemporary little touch.

Jojo

Yeah. So this was a really good marrying of like, contemporary and, you know, that period.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

What else did I write on here? Oh! Well, I mentioned the kind of wider, more masculine shoulders. I think one thing that was really interesting was I was thinking a little bit more about Joan Crawford from the kind of late 1940s. And sort of that same idea of like, the really broad shoulders on a very feminine silhouette. And I think that was some of what I was getting... I don't know if that was what Ellen intended. But that was sort of the same feeling I was getting from this, especially knowing that she kind of was utilizing 1950s and 1960s colors. And that she-- I think there was something in one of the interviews that mentioned her looking at the new Dior look of the 1947 era.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

So just sort of bringing in even some small subtle details of that silhouette. You can definitely see that in this costume.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And then to focus on Anthony... and like, you know, we've talked in the past about how interesting menswear is, in comparison to womenswear. And it's usually not... there's not... I don't want to say that it's not interesting, but there's not as much to talk about, I feel like.

Sarah

Yeah, it's still pants and shirts and jackets. [laughs]

Jojo

And I can't really say that, but even in this particular scene, you know, Anthony actually does feature a pretty standard tuxedo from that era, the Regency tuxedo, and it is a cutaway coat. One of the things that I do love about this is that in comparison to the luxurious velvets of Simon, he's certainly in more of a traditional kind of almost... it looks like wool.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

I don't know if that's exactly what the material was. But just based on the images that we're seeing here. You know, it's a pretty traditional black and white, that's pretty standard for tuxedos of that time. And like, you know, they would have dressed really nice. And I think Anthony's family is still at a level of wealthiness that he can afford, you know, nicer fabrics. Not that they're not all wearing really nice fabric, but just sort of styled in different ways. He really does have his neck mostly covered for a majority of the time. And I don't think that has anything to do with not wanting him to be sexy, because he certainly sleeps around...

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

...quite a bit in the show as well. [laughs] But there's this sense of, he constantly needs to look put together. And there's this uptightness about his character because he basically has the entire family's reputation on his shoulders.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So they've really kept him--his neck--really wrapped up in the scene. And again, kind of going back to that separating of him versus Simon in this scene. I think it's a really good juxtaposition of the two of them across from each other. Because he's so well done up with his stock and his ascot in place. Versus Simon, who I think in this scene, he's got nothing around his neck. So it's essentially just kind of open, and it's almost like a modern sensibility. When we think about the unbuttoned shirt, right...

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

...that's a more casual look for men, when they leave their chest open.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

Versus when they have a fully done up button at the neck. So they definitely did that to separate these two men in general. I also love the shape of this vest, it is very Regency, and I think that's been obviously-- I think-- let me go back. [laughs] But I was gonna say, I really love that Ellen stuck to more of the traditional Regency silhouette for this, because I think this definitely looks much more Regency and much more close to the historical silhouette of that time for men especially.

Sarah

Yeah, he looks so traditional too, and that makes sense with his character because he cares so much about the standing of his family, and their reputation, and adhering to tradition. So him wearing a more period accurate Regency thing makes sense, especially next to Simon, who is more modern and doesn't really care about that kind of thing, even though... I mean, he cares about his family, but not in the way of reputation or like...

Jojo

Yes, definitely.

Sarah

...tradition, or whatever.

Jojo

It's very different priorities.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

For sure. And then-- again, this is such a small detail, but the fact that he's got so many of those gold buttons, again, it's kind of a show of wealth. If you actually look at a lot of the fashion plates from this time period, his jacket is much more open than the ones that you typically see in that time period. Which... I don't know if it was just the designer being like, "Let's feature that thing." [both laugh]

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

Like, "We worked so many hours on this costume, let's do it." And you can't necessarily-- you don't necessarily see the color in this one. But there were a couple interviews I was looking at where you do get to see a lot more color for the menswear. And it is mostly like dark blues and navies, but they're very rich blues, that you see in other episodes of this season. This particular look is a little closer to the traditional black, but I do love that Ellen has thrown in some of those other deeper colors for menswear, and didn't just keep it all black tuxedos all the time.

Sarah

Yeah. I like the blue that he wears. But I will say that I did not realize that all three of the white men were Daphne's brothers until several episodes in, because they're virtually indistinguishable from each other. And they all wear the same color. So I thought that some of them were the same person. I didn't realize there were three of them. Like... [both laugh]

Jojo

So funny. Yeah. And I feel like they're kind of carbon copies of each other. I don't think there was as much of a distinctiveness between the three brothers.

Sarah

Yeah. Toward the end, they develop more of their own personalities, but not at the beginning. At the beginning. I was like, "Wait, who's this one? Didn't we just see him?" [both laugh]

Jojo

"Wait, they're NOT the same person?"

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

Yeah. So I think, overall, you know, obviously, this show was definitely one of those shows that you kind of get sucked in very fast. So that's why we wanted to cover it. But I think, you know, rather than looking at all the historical anachronisms that are in this... because, again, that is not the point of these costumes. I think just being able to enjoy how contemporary this is, and how Shonda has brought in a lot of the kind of diverse cast and the diverse... even the diverse culture that she's created in this world, I think is definitely the bigger point that we want to focus on for this show.

Sarah

Yeah, I think it's a beautiful sort of like fantasy, you know? Because these-- it's based on books, and they're basically fantasy, bodice-ripper romances, and you want to be able to escape into that world. And I really like that the world she's created for us to escape into is so colorful, so diverse, so different and unique. And when's the last time a period drama like this made such a splash? I can't remember...

Jojo

Yeah, it's very true.

Sarah

...one getting this popular recently, so clearly, they have a winning formula happening.

Jojo

For sure.

Sarah

They're doing something right.

Jojo

And they have eight more seasons left of this! So...

Sarah

There's lots of books right?

Jojo

There's gonna be plenty of material to cover.

Sarah

Yeah, I like how it's sort of like a Regency era "Gossip Girl," basically. [laughs]

Jojo

Yeah, I literally... when I started watching this, I was gonna ask my husband to watch with me and he was like, "Wait, so this is just 'Gossip Girl,' but set in the Regency era?" He was like, so disinterested. [both laugh] I was like, "Okay, you don't have to watch with me, fine."

Sarah

Oh, man.

Jojo

But yes, very much a "Gossip Girl" vibe.

Sarah

Yes, yes. I mean, shout out to, like-- I have a couple of straight male friends who were really into it. So shout out to them, I hope they listen. Because they asked me if I was gonna cover it. So you better listen.

Jojo

Yep, here it is! And that does conclude our episode, our little bonus episode of this. We're at 40 minutes!

Sarah

Pretty good!

Jojo

We tried to keep this short...

Sarah

I'll trim some out.

Jojo

...but pretty good.

Sarah

And then it'll be like 35 or so. [both laugh]

Jojo

Yes, exactly. So hopefully you've enjoyed our very brief coverage of "Bridgerton." It's a fun show to watch. It's easy to get sucked into, there's a lot that happens and now there's eight more seasons that are, you know, projected after this. So looking forward to that and more of Shondaland. So hopefully...

Sarah

Yeah, it's a nice little escape from the real world for a while.

Jojo

Definitely.

Sarah

Watch pretty people fall in love. What could go wrong? [both laugh]

Jojo

Exactly. In the Regency era.

Sarah

Yeah. Beautiful.

Jojo

Perfect. Well, thanks, Sarah!

Sarah

Thanks, JoJo!

Jojo

This was fun! And look forward to our musical theatre episode coming in next month.

Sarah

Yep. Look forward to that.

Jojo

Perfect.

Sarah

And watch "Meet Me in St. Louis."

Jojo

Yes.

Sarah

Okay.

Jojo

Thanks, guys.

Sarah

Thank you!

Jojo

We'll see you next time.

Sarah

Bye!

[OUTRO]

Jojo:

Thank you for listening to The Costume Plot! You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at @thecostumeplot. If you have a question, comment, or movie suggestion you can email us at [email protected].

Sarah:

Our theme music is by Jesse Timm, and our artwork is by Jojo Siu. Please rate and review us wherever you listen to your podcasts.

0 notes