#i simply think that knowing anakin is vader would either wreck her to the point of utter defeat | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

luminousbeansarewe · 4 years

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what are your takes/version of how the sequel trilogy went down? because i also have my own version in my head, not.... that, but im really interested in the ideas other people have had for it

hoo boy there’s a lot of ground to cover here lmao i will try to keep them as short as i can... i also enjoy multiple versions of events and outcomes for the sequels as long as they’re in-character so i’m not trying to say no other version of the sequels is good or cool bc only a sith deals in absolutes amirite? (i won’t apologize for that dumb joke.) first the jumping-off points:

first of all, i fully support Force-sensitive Finn. even if he didn’t become a full-blown Jedi, if the entire concept of the Jedi was reforged and we don’t see him become the kind of Jedi we saw in the prequels (more on that later), i see him as someone who was attuned to the Force in a way that is similar to how i conceive of Barriss; empathetic to the suffering and joy of others. this would drive him to defect from the Empire and fear it, too. i also saw him becoming a reluctant leader for the rebellion, and there’s a GREAT fic which i’ll link here that riffs on the idea that he creates a spark within the stormtrooper ranks and more and more of them begin to defect... which i love

Rey being a nobody is cool to me. the ONE character moment where she became super relatable for me was when she realized how frightened she was of her own Force abilities. but i don’t think she has to be the legacy of Palps to have that. she doesn’t need supercharged powers to be spooked by them in a post-Jedi Order world where the most recent memory anybody has of the Force is Vader. (also Rey being a Kenobi seems more out of character for Obi-Wan than anything else lol he was pretty committed to the ways of the Order even after they were destroyed, plus he already had one kid to furtively watch over... just imo). this also ties into my expansion on the Force.

Poe being not a carbon copy of Han. i think Leia looked after him, found him somehow after she sent Ben to the Jedi Academy and was a motherly figure in his life. i like the idea that he was a little shit, and she’s the one who taught him to turn his reactive defiance of authority into bravery when fighting for the rebels. i think he looked up to her, wanted to be a leader like her. i saw him in the position of generals like Akbar by the end, as he learns to balance risk-taking with steady leadership. I wanted to see that growth, how those leaders are formed, see Leia get to impart her wisdom to someone. (also i fully support Finn/Poe and Finn/Rey/Poe, i’m not a committed shipper so i’m down with no romance at all between them but those ships are choice af and Stormpilot is all Oscar Isaac wanted anyway, so...) plus can u imagine the dichotomy of Ben the fallen son with Poe, the “adopted” son who became what Ben couldn’t? the guilt of Leia for not knowing how to teach her son about the Force, doing better half-raising a nobody who had the same shitty attitude as Han when they met but no Force ability? THIS IS JUICY CHARACTER CONTENT

Rose was given cheesy lines to introduce an important topic: that fighting is all well and good but throwing away your principles defeats the purpose of the fight in the first place (an important theme in the Clone Wars era, too.) she was there to be the voice of the truly little people in the gffa, who we don’t hear much about in the other trilogies. Finn’s sensitivity puts him at risk of the sorrow-to-hate arc i described for Barriss; Rose is there to be the empathy that sustains hope rather than becomes a crushing weight. i love the idea that she might rally volunteers from blue-collar places (like... Lothal, for example?) and spearhead the notion that the New Republic should be very different from the old one, calling out the fact that working conditions didn’t change with the shift from republic to empire and the First Order simply took it to an extreme that left her and her sister with nothing else to lose.

Ben Solo, hoo boy. so here’s the thing, we don’t KNOW Ben Solo. we were expected to want him to be redeemed because he was the son of Han and Leia, and that’s it. that’s lazy as fuck. him killing Han in the first movie (if it happened it should have been in movie #2, that’s how fucking second acts work) was an excuse to shock people, subvert the ‘i can’t kill my own father’ thing, and make sure we knew he was “evil” even though we’re supposed to also want a redemption arc? you have to read the Rise of Kylo Ren comics to learn that he was a) hounded by the voice of Snoke in his head from childhood, manipulated by it, which is horrific bc it’s like grooming... or b) that he felt HUGE pressure as a legacy Force-user to save the galaxy, lead the New Jedi Order, etc. these are much more empathy-generating and we should have learned them in TFA. echoes of Anakin much? which is why i think him being redeemed in a way other than self-sacrifice (which made sense for Vader given his long history of being a terrible person, knowing it was too late for him in the end, and really just wanting to save his son rather than “become good again”) is more interesting than him just falling (which is too much the same as the prequels.)

it should have been Finn’s call, a moment of Truth that held the balance of Finn as either falling prey to darkness or learning forgiveness, whether or not Kylo got redeemed. Finn and Rey working together to get to that point while Rose and Poe took on the military aspect of the Big Finale would have been great. Finn with a lightsaber to Kylo’s throat, feeling the temptation to murder him instead of making him face what he’s become in a meaningful way? Rey trying to urge him away from darkness as she’s been tempted before, but this is the first time Finn’s really been tested, and he was the one who so often reminded her of her own humanity? Rey calling up Rose’s point of creating a new paradigm instead of recreating the old one, of Poe’s growth or Leia’s willingness to take Ben back showing it’s possible? shiiiiiiit

the rest is going under a cut!

SO... given those things as a basis...

there being no scene where Force-ghost Anakin bops Kylo on the head (but you know, more subtly and with gorgeous metaphor ofc) was a travesty. we needed some version of that, also imo that reaffirms that Anakin was the chosen one... as him redirecting his grandson away from that path would be restoring hella balance

Snoke should have had his own fucked up backstory, if he was even there at all. a dark sider fucking with Ben Solo is reasonable to me, but Snoke could have been someone who looked up to Palps as much as Kylo supposedly looked up to Vader. that would have been interesting... maybe there are multiple “nobodies” who are being touched by the Force, just like there always were in the prequels era, but some are going dark with no Jedi to try to convince them otherwise? or, maybe Snoke’s life was ruined by the Empire and he chose to become the beast that harmed him, whereas Kylo becomes the version where you think you want to do that but then realize that it’s just as bad and you still have empathy and regret what you’ve done?

Thrawn being the main military antagonist, since they couldn’t be arsed to make Hux into anything but a sniveling baby fascist (despite his really upsetting backstory of an abusive father, also found in the comics... noticing a trend here?). Thrawn was already established and beloved in the legends. why would you not use him. whY?? he’s like a foil for Tarkin. contention between him and the Force-users in charge (Snoke and Kylo) would have been VERY interesting, esp with the character of Thrawn in the new canon seeing the Empire as a ‘necessary evil’ and now maybe having the potential to make it into something else? how’s JOINING WITH THE NEW REPUBLIC for a subversion of the classic tropes, Rian?????? you fucker????

if Thrawn’s history is “too storied” for a bunch of cowards to "fit” into a new movie trilogy, invent another antivillain to take Thrawn’s place whose history is a little more concurrent with the sequel era... you cowards

Luke fucking off after his failure isn’t out of character IMO. he was THE STRONGEST JEDI EVER and his star pupil still fell? maybe he broke under the same pressure Ben did. maybe that’s what allows him to reach back out towards Kylo and reconnect, admitting his failure. i want to hear more about him cutting himself off from the Force bc i LOVE KOTOR 2 and Kreia, but maybe that’s too much for one trilogy to delve into meaningfully, i dunno

Han fucking off after Ben wrecked the temple isn’t OOC either. i think Han was always a little frightened of the Force, the way many non-sensitives are. I think he was critical as a father, because he was critical of himself and Han is the king of projection. i wanted more of the dysfunctional relationship between him and Ben.

if Kylo kills Han, the scene needs to show more of the fact that Kylo actually regretted it, which Snoke only alludes to in TLJ, foreshadowing his future. i rewrote Han’s death scene for a friend and got a lot of good feedback about it so maybe i’ll post it here sometime. i can get behind a version where he doesn’t die, too, i just haven’t fleshed it out in my own head.

i like the idea that the Jedi Order needed to be remade, and that Luke saw the failure of the old order when he saw Ben turn like so many of the Jedi in the Order did. i like that Rey and Finn might spearhead this, and maybe Kylo’s role is to know the dark side intimately enough now that he can actually teach how it works, how to deal with it... how inevitable its temptation is. because...

in this canon, i don’t think the Force has light or darkness. i think it’s Force-users who do. it is their internal landscapes which cause them to “fall” or be redeemed or not, after all. Finn can attest to the same, so can Rey and Luke... so like, all the Jedi need DBT therapy or something i guess. lmao hold the dialectic, you nerds

the Force has shown time and time again that it cannot be “balanced” so maybe it is ourselves who need to become balanced instead

the Force is chaos, a never-ending series of colliding butterfly effects that to us will always and inevitably be seen as turmoil, cause and effect on a cosmic scale. if you drink too greedily of its power, or try to exert total control over it, by its nature it will consume you because it is beyond your mortal ken. whatever you hunger for, the force will give you more and more of it until you are overwhelmed, drowning in it

this is why peace was a central teaching of the Jedi... peace, the antithesis of chaos, which can only ever be created from within, the eye of the storm which must be sought time and time again

anyway thanks for coming to my ted talk? i’m always down to hear other people’s ideas for these characters tbh. and always down to get more into these topics if you want to know more... esp as it relates to the failure of the Jedi Order, or KOTOR 2 and Revan and Kreia, or OF COURSE my OCs because Sol has a very interesting relationship with the Force.

thank you for this ask lordimperius!! ^_^

#star wars sequels #this got way deeper into my meta than i meant for it to but i can't help it #my headcanons #asks #if you read all of this or even most of it you're an actual angel

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talkstarwars · 7 years

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Star Wars Insights | A Terrifying New Sith Ability?

Can we talk about Snoke for a second? Now I know that we have decided, collectively that Snoke is his own thing, that he isn’t Darth Plagueis The Wise, and that he may not even play that large a role in The Last Jedi. But I have a theory that might play into the dark and weird of it all, tie this trilogy to the prequel trilogy, and introduce a new and exciting element to Star Wars canon…

Rian Johnson himself has said that The Last Jedi will be dark and weird, and Daisy Ridley has recently commented that Rian has written a script that is unexpected but right. What could be unexpected about The Last Jedi? Could it be the introduction of new canon elements? New Star Wars lore? New rules? Well that wouldn’t be the first time that’s happened recently.

In the expended storytelling we have been introduced to the concept of Kyber Crystals and how they may very well be living things that exist within the Force, and how these crystals can be corrupted, or bled by dark Force wielders to be used in their own red bladed weapons. We have also learnt through the Ahsoka novel that this damage can be undone by a powerful light side user, like Ahsoka herself who restored the corrupted crystals of a Sith Inquisitor and placed them at the heart of her own white bladed lightsabers. Want something more spiritual? How about the Barash Vow? The Vow was recently introduced and explains why certain Jedi chose to sit by as conflict rages across the galaxy? This latter element could be a way to retcon the choices made by Yoda and Obi-Wan in the original trilogy. Retconning isn’t always bad.

It’s no accident that these elements are introduced to us in expanded storytelling. I believe we are being conditioned to understand certain things about Star Wars lore, how the galaxy far far away works, and how what we have accepted for years, may be viewed from a different point of view.

So what could be introduced to Star Wars canon that both adds to the lore, but also retcons what has gone before, making the story more intriguing and more rewarding? How about a terrifying Sith ability?

Enter Snoke…

Let me start by saying that this theory allows Snoke to be Darth Plagueis if the writer so decides, but it is not especially necessary. This theory would retcon the rule of two and expand on a major story element in Star Wars Episode III Revenge Of The Sith. Lets get started.

I believe Rian Johnson may very well introduce a new dark side ability that reflects the Jedi ability to retain their identity after death and become blue Force ghosts. But the Sith version of this must reflect the Sith preoccupation with retaining their physical connection to the world, and to it’s many pleasures. I have been referring to this ability as Force Possession.

Here is how I see it working.

"To cheat death is a power only one has achieved…" -- Darth Sidious

I believe that Darth Plagueis found a way to move a Force sensitive’s “being” from one physical form into another. Remember when Palpatine said, “He could even keep the ones he cared about from dying”, did Darth Plagueis find away to use the Midi-chlorians in a Force users body to facilitate a Force possession of another form? This would allow the Sith to survive a physical death and retain their identities, without giving up the physical pleasures (like power and influence) that they value so highly. I’m going to bury the lead here and suggest that this would give the writers the freedom to make Snoke either Plagueis himself, or one of those he cared so much about, possibly a student or a loved one, and the physical form that the Snoke entity is currently inhabiting is starting to break down, meaning he will need a new host soon.

Which brings us to phase two…

We learn in Revenge of the Sith that Darth Plagueis also learnt to create life by manipulating the Midi-chlorians. We have all accepted, I think, that this was intended to explain the apparent virgin birth of Anakin Skywalker, the Chosen One. Why would Darth Plagueis be interested in creating life? Could it be that he was designing new host bodies for his own use later on? If Darth Plagueis felt that he could simply move into another form, why not create a super powerful one and have it in spare? And where better to keep this spare physical form than right next to you?

"Always two there are." -- Master Yoda

We have been told (through legends) that the rule of two is to reduce the amount of infighting between the Sith. That the order would exist in the form of two, one to have the power and one to crave it. What if Rian Johnson retcons this little piece of Star Wars lore so that it makes more sense. To frame this rule as simply Sith propaganda and the real purpose of the apprentice is to be a spare body for the master. It would be in the master’s best interest to keep this secret, and I suspect that Palptine’s intended purpose when recruited by Plagueis, was to play host to his form at the end of his life. Now, if Palpatine became aware of Plagueis’ true intentions and saw young Anakin as his potential replacement, it would make sense that he move against his master immediately, before he himself was killed, even if his own understanding of his master’s new found skill was limited. Palpatine must have been certain he could find the answer and move his Force essence into Anakin at some point. Might this explain why he was so cavalier with his own physical form in Revenge of the Sith? Because he believed he would be moving into Anakin’s form, Anakin’s very powerful physical form, soon?

If this is true it would retcon the rule of two and reframe Palpatine’s reaction to Vader’s injuries at the hand of Obi-Wan Kenobi. Old Ben basically wrecked Palpatine’s new home. Which might be why the twins are so valuable to Palpatine and needed to be hidden. Not because they were simply a threat to his rule, but they might act as a vessel for the Darth Sidious entity to survive death.

If we jump forward to the sequel trilogy and we carry this theory through, then Snoke might be either Plagueis or a loved one of Plagueis’ surviving in a withering form. As the master of Kylo Ren, might he be attempting to corrupt the former student of Luke Skywalker, much the same way the Sith corrupt the Kyber Crystals in order to purge the boy of any light side attributes and eventually take over that form? From the position of the young master of the Knights of Ren, Snoke could rule his new Empire, with his apprentice, Rey at his side, unwittingly providing his next physical form…

Thank you for reading,

Marc

#Star Wars #The Last Jedi #Snoke #Darth Sidious #Darth Plagueis #Luke Skywalker #Kylo Ren #Force Possession

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