#he’s actually a character in Chinese myth and jttw | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

sageshadowed · 22 days

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🧅 im hope finally i can send memes also *boops*

yeah hey. thanks sir. boops you with the force of like a thousand suns

i think the original character i wanted to make this meme for was sigyn norsemythology, like "only gets mentioned in völuspá 35 and lokasenna end notes in the poetic edda" sigyn, but also the version of sigyn i've been writing in a like norse retelling story i've been working on since like high school? though it's changed a lot since then.

the rest of this is 1. i will tell you more about sigyn bc i'm too shy to do so above a readmore 2. rambling abt my taste in stories and tropes and opinions abt story/mythology retellings

ok hey. first of all: sig is loki's wife, exclusively known in the eddas for holding a bowl over loki's face when she[^1] was bound, catching as a serpent dripped venom into it. so like. gestures vaguely. the narrative parallels are remarkable, except macaque didn't stay.

my sigyn is a butch lesbian and loki's transfem and theyre super married ok ! also both of em r chinese [or at least jötunnheim is based on china/ne asia] loki's from the north and sig's from the south. my citation for this is the beginning notes of lokasenna: þórr kom eigi, því at hann var í austrvegi, amirite?[^2] iirc there's scholarship out there about how this is supposed to be an allegory for the sámi people, probly sámi/russia/eastern europe would've been better ethnicities/cultures to pull from, but. yknow. i am the person i am

second: i think a lot about what get lost in mythological retellings and how we rewrite sigyn in norse mythology retellings specifically. this has actually been kinda a hot topic in norse retelling lit recently. everyone wants sigyn to be a bigger character in the myths-- you see more books written from her or loki's perspective or whatever, especially since loki's a more popular character, since everyone loves a trickster god. this is supposed to b feminist, or whatever. (few of them are actually good and i can tell u this bc i've read most of them. special interests are wild)

but like what if you consider that sigyn didn't want to be in the myths, seeing how they talked about loki and going "huh. no thanks! i don't wanna be written about like this, actually." what if the myths aren't true, or misrepresent what events actually happened?? what then becomes ur attitude towards the writer of/subjects of the myths?? what gets recorded in history and what gets forgotten or smoothed over. what do we do when the queers are considered the monsters.

anyway i think a lot about how jttw (novel) exists in universe and often i wonder how macaque is written in it. and if it stays as-is, i think about how he would know, deeply, that he is not a guy who just shows up in two chapters. but he is written that way bc stories and histories are cruel.

also wrt just norse mythology vs. jttw in general, a lot of my blorbos are guys who have been fucked over by gods so wukong and loki have that in common. both of them have been my favs for a long ass time. shoutouts

[^1]: she/her pronouns for loki thx. she's a trans woman unless u wanna argue abt how old norse gender was constructed ! i can also do this infodump on request [^2]: norse mythology has been my special interest since i was ~12 and i learned a bit of old norse for it and i'm so sorry for the person i am about it

#ooc #sunsage #answered

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journeytothewestresearch · 1 year

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Hello,

I just spend the afternoon reading some of your articles about the relationship between Sun Wukong and the Six Eared Macaque and I had a question.

I was first curious about Macaque's birth and death. We know that Sun Wukong is born from a stone, he is the stone monkey.

So I first thought that maybe Macaque must have been born in a similar way, since he is supposed to have a life that mirror more or less Sun Wukong's (With the reference to Six Ears being the Macaque demon king and Sun Wukong's sworn brother in "Origin of the Six-Eared Macaque and the Character’s Influence on Black Myth: Wukong"). If I understood correctly however, jttw doesn't make any reference to Macaque's birth.

Then I found the article "The Entangled Relationship of Sun Wukong and Six Ears". In this article you say that the relationship between Macaque and Sun Wukong being eachother's mirror (with the idea that they are opposites with the true mind and the illusionary mind) is much more than a metaphor, and that they split.

That would suggest that the Six Eared Macaque didn't have a birth like Sun Wukong at all (At this point if I understand correctly we are getting pretty into interpretation).

That's when comes my question about Macaque's birth. If Macaque really is Sun Wukong's mirrors, shouldn't he have inherited his immortality one way or another ?

The fact that they are evenly matched until the Six Eared Macaque's real identity is revealed at which point Sun Wukong kills the Six Eared Macaque is interesting.

It works with the metaphor of the true mind winning over the illusionary mind after the wrong one is revealed. But it it just that ?

If they are perfect mirror, shouldn't the Six Eared Macaque be immortal ?

Sun Wukong is not actually immortal. See my previous post

I'd like to add that immortality in Ming to Qing-era popular literature just means long-lived. You can still die. Think of it like a near-infinitely long candle being blown out instead of having a chance to burn for centuries or eons. For example, Investiture of the Gods (Fengshen yanyi, 封神演義, c. 1620), a sort of prequel to Journey to the West, is full of immortals killed in battle with heavenly weapons. Some even have their immortality sapped away before dying in one of many celestial traps. The biggest of these traps is the "Ten Thousand Immortal Array" (Wanxian zhen, 萬仙陣), so named because it can apparently kill myriad transcendents.

Just in case anyone is interested, I have a four-volume translation of this latter novel available on my research blog.

#Sun Wukong #Monkey King #Six-Eared Macaque #Six Ears #Journey to the West #JTTW #immortality #Immortal #Investiture of the Gods #Creation of the Gods #Fengshen yanyi #Lego Monkie Kid #LMK

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wolfasketch · 2 years

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Is Tora based off the Monkey King??

As we all know, Japanese culture descended from Chinese culture and a lot of their lore, legends and myths are based off of China’s lores, legends and myths. An example being Japan’s Kitsune, aka the Nine-Tailed Fox, which is based off China’s Huli Jing, aka the Nine-Tailed Fox. And, to this day, Japan still takes influence from China in their movies, animes and mangas. Their favorite being one of China’s most popular legends, Sun Wukong, the Monkey King. Japanese authors love taking this demon/god and inserting him into their own stories, the most popular being Sun Wukong from RWBY and Goku from Dragon Ball Z. Well, today I’m here to talk about a very underrated and less popular anime that might also have some Monkey King referenced into it. Ushio and Tora. Now, I’ve had this theory in my head for a bit, but never got around to posting anything about it or making fanart about it. Well, today, I’m going to be comparing and contrasting these two characters in different sessions, so this will include spoilers. The first being:

Hair Manipulation:

For everyone who knows about the Monkey King, you will know he can make clones of himself and others from his hair. And, in the most recent Monkey King series, Monkie Kid, he can also turn his hair into food, not sure if that’s canon for the actual Monkey King though. Well, Tora also has a form of hair manipulation. Like the Monkey King, he can make clones from his hair, but it’s never of himself, only of others. Towards the end of the series, Ushio, Tora, and another character, Asako, are captured by a group called H.A.M.M.R, who are after Ushio spear, the Beast Spear. Well, in order for them to escape, Tora uses his hair to make a copy of Asako so the real Asako can go find Ushio so they can escape. Tora can also use his hair as a tracking/summoning tool. In the same episode, he wrapps some of his hair around Asako’s finger so when she finds Ushio, she can summon him to her.

Limited Shapeshifting:

In Ushio and Tora, Tora reveals he can shapeshift by shifting into his implied love interest, Mayuko, to save her from other Yokai who wanted to kill her. He also explains that he can also shift into someone if he knows their physical form and voice. The Monkey King also has the ability to shapeshift, but he can also turn into other animals, 72 being exact, meaning his shapeshifting is also limited.

Flying:

In the JTTW, Wukong has the ability to fly, either with just himself or with a cloud he can summon. Tora, although unable to summon clouds,(edit from the future, Tora does, in fact, have cloud manipulation powers he uses as camouflage) can fly. Before taking the name Tora he was known as Nagatobimaru which means Flying Long Distance.

Superhuman Strength, Speed and Reflexes:

Both Wukong and Tora are known for their strengths, speed and reflexes, the two famous for taking on armies and winning. The two have even both fought beings greater than themselves, Wukong fighting the Gods and Tora fighting the main villain in the anime, Hakumen No Mono.

Supernatural Strengths:

As expected, with their powers, these two both are extremely powerful, even in strength. According to what I’ve read, if the Monkey King tried, he could lift a whole city. In the anime, Tora’s strength is shown when he holds and lands a plane when its landing gear gets stuck.

Now, that’s all of the powers Tora and the Monkey King have in common from what I know. Now, Tora isn’t the spitting image of the Monkey King. The creator of Ushio and Tora, Kazuhiro Fujita, gave Tora his own powers, those being Fire Breathing, Lightning, Wind, Invisibility, and Intangibility(meaning if he gets a limb cut off, he can put it back on). The Azafuse can also faze through walls. Now, we’re off to character similarities, starting with:

500 Year Entrapment and Release:

Yes, both Tora and Wukong were trapped for 500 years, but the situation resemblance doesn't end there. As everyone knows, the Monkey King was trapped under a mountain by Tang Sanzang, a monk, and was released 500 years later by Tripitaka, who was also a monk, who kept the Monkey King in line with a golden circlet that was stuck to the Monkey King’s head. When Tora was trapped, he was trapped by a samurai who became a monk after he was gravely injured in his fight with Tora, at that time known as Nagatobimaru. 500 years later, he was released by Ushio, the descendant of the samurai, meaning he is the descendant of a monk and was also being trained by his father, Shigure, who is also a monk. Like Tripitaka, Ushio uses the Beast Spear to keep Tora in line.

Friend to Enemy:

Before Tora was trapped and he was known as Nagatobimaru, he had a friend/ally named Hitotsuki, the two causing chaos together before Tora’s entrapment. After Tora’s release, the two are reunited after a while, but once Hitotsuki finds out Tora has teamed up with Ushio, he no longer sees Tora as an ally, instead, he starts seeing him as an obstacle in his way of killing Ushio. Tora and Hitotsuki end up fighting, and Tora ends up triumphant and Hitotsuki is forced to back down. The same happened with the Monkey King. Before he was trapped under the mountain, he was friends with another demon named The Demon Bull King, the two calling each other brothers. But, the two had a falling out after the Monkey Kings release and he was forced to trap the Demon Bull King under a mountain.

Evil Twin:

In the JTTW, it is said there are three other Monkey Demon, two who are unnamed and one named the Six-Ears Macaque, who looked exactly like the Monkey King, minus him having six ears. The Six-Eared Macaque was actually known as the Macaque King before changing his name. Well, in the Ushio and Tora anime, there are eight other Azafuse, seven unnamed and one named Guren, who is also a copy of Tora, but he had black, purple and red fur while Tora has orange, black, white and auburn fur. Macaque and Guren both match Monkey King and Tora in both their superhuman strengths and powers, meaning they are all of an equal match. The only difference in Tora’s relationship with Guren is that Tora never knew him like Monkey King did with Macaque.

Redemption Ark:

By the end of JTTW and Ushio and Tora, both of these characters have redeemed themselves for what they have done in the past and have even befriended their capturers, Monkey King’s being Tripitaka and Tora’s being Ushio. During their redemptions, they also made other friends, but unlike in JTTW, Ushio and Tora remain a two manned team. Another difference is, by the end of JTTW, Monkey is able to live while at the end of Ushio and Tora, Tora sacrifices himself to defeat Hakumen No Mono. This also leads to our last topic and that is:

The Beast Spear and Ruyi Jingu Bang:

In Ushio and Tora, it is revealed that before Tora was known as Nagatobimaru, he was a human named Shagakusha, who was orphaned as a baby by Hakumen No Mono when the nine-tailed fox crashed into his house and used the baby Shagakusha as a vessel. Well, not only was Shagakusha Hakumen’s vessel, he was also the first wielder of the Beast Spear, which led to him being turned into an Azafuse. The Beast Spear is also the only thing that can kill Tora, revealed throughout the anime as every attack that killed other Yokai was proven futile towards Tora. Well, the Monkey King is also the first, and only wielder of his staff, the Ruyi Jingu Bang. Now, this is just pure coincidence, but for those who have watched Monkie Kid, you will know that Sun Wukong has passed his staff down to a human named MK, known as Qi Xiaotian in the Chinese Dub, to be his successor. Well, in Ushio and Tora, Ushio is forced to pull the spear out of Tora’s shoulder to save his friends, Asako and Mayuko, and throughout the anime, Tora helps Ushio fight other Yokai, from telling him how to use the Spear to telling him other Yokai’s weaknesses, basically taking Ushio in as some sort of apprentice, though he never admits to helping.

Well, that’s all I have for now until I find out more info through research. This theory/though only came to mind because I started wondering who would win in a fight, Tora or Sun Wukong. Turns out, they’re basically an equal match.

#JTTW #Ushio and Tora #Tora #Monkey King

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sweetpeathecat · 3 years

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Hey LEGO Monkie Kid Fandom

Question: does the Novel Journey to the West exist in the world of Monkie Kid? We know the actual events happened but did the novel get written? Outside of artistic liberties, that could explain why some thinks don’t add up. JTTW might be treated as myths and legends with multiple interpretations. Kinda like Chang’e the Chinese moon goddess.

It could explain one of the reasons why Tang tell MK the monkey stories. He might collect as many Monkey King stories as he can find to share with MK. Why Tang “ forget” Red Son’s name in the Dumpling Destruction episode. Why Macaque isn’t recognized as THE six erased macaque. With the sands of time some details could be forgotten and lost. An additional option is that someone has changed history in some way. Without the novel to fact-check it, on one would remember the original timeline and wouldn’t notice the changes

We as the audience can reference the novel to see what show changed or left vague but the characters might not be able to.

#monkie kid #lego monkie kid

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spotsupstuff · 2 years

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hey I’m still reading JTTW and even though I know a lot of the characters whose chapters I haven’t reached yet I have no idea who Gonggong is

I highly doubt the interwebs will give me the full description of the glory of Gonggong so please enlighten me and explain what makes them the best/worst

OKAY SO BASICALLY:

Gonggong Isn't actually from JTTW, that bitch man is from Before time of Sun Wukong, if we would put all chinese myths/novels into one giant timeline. He shows up in the folklore (i Think??) and in the Classic of Mountains and Seas (or Shan Hai Jing if you will)

He is a flood/water demon that if I remember/understand right went against Yu the Great, lost and just fuckin. he came up to this very importante mountain called Buzhou and there's a pillar comin from it connecting the earth realm to the heaven realm and BANG! SMASHES his DUMB FUCKIN head into that thing out of frustration, breaking it in the process, like bitch!!!! BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You don't just go around smackin ur dang brain box into important shit!!!!!!!!!!!! Just cuz u lost to a Guy Who Stopped The Floods In Ancient China!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy Shit!!

'N so like the sky doesn't really fall cuz there's still three other pillars supportin it somewhere behind their own mountains, but Either because of him a whole ass chaos broke out through the entire damn Earth realm and now there's a Hole In The Sky and everybody's dyin left and right, gettin burned to death or eaten by demons or whatever yanno the ordinary old chinese mythological past time stuff so Nuwa (a female deity who created humans from clay) has to come in to patch the sky up and then kills this really big dahoonka bahoonka (as in giant) turtle, cuts off one of its legs and uses That in the place of the broken pillar OR -deep breath- there's no hole in the sky n no chaos but the og pillar is broken in half like a straw n nobody is exactly rushin in to fix that bad boy up cuz I'm guessin das kinda hard to do

The point of the broken pillar is that it explains why the stars, sun and moon always travel west and why the rivers flow east and honestly it's a really nice explanation, personally I'm a fan, but imagine you get your ass rightfully kicked and throw a big enough tantrum to reprogram the motherfucking sky forever and ever, like take some damn breathing exercises, that name already sounds funny (fuckin Gonggong, dude...), why do you have to add to that fucking up the fucking sky oh my gods

#Spot says stuff #also the first cartoon i saw with him made him look really goofy so my respect points are Vewy limited #共工 (Gònggōng) also seems to mean like... ''co-worker'' or common work so like... Man..........

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fgodump · 4 years

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Connections to “The Poppy War”

The setting and characters to The Poppy War has derived a lot of inspiration from historical events and myths alike. This is meant to discuss which characters have a relation to those preexisting. Of course, you do not need to know this information to enjoy the books, but I think knowing them will elevate your reading experience. None of this information is official. This is just the conclusions I came to while reading. Feel free to make comments

MAJOR MAJOR SPOILERS FOR ALL BOOKS

Locations

Nikara: Qing Dynasty.

Mugen: Japan (Meiji Period)

Hesperia: Britain

The Hinterlands: Mongolia (unsure)

Murui: Yellow River

Tianshan: Kunlun

The different provinces were based off the Chinese Zodiac

The Poppy Wars: the Opium wars, as they have the heavy involvement of foreign invaders

Fang Runin: Rin’s character does not seem to take from a specific person, however the wiki stats that she was inspired by multiple people, such as Azula from ATLA and Mao Zedong

Chen Kitay: It's pretty obvious his character is inspired by Zhuge Liang in Romance of the Three kingdoms. In actual history, he wasn't that much, but in the book, Zhuge was a monster at strategy.

In the first book, Irjah proposes a question, which Kitay replies “to bait the enemy into giving them arrows by rolling out a boat of strawmen”. This is something that Zhuge did as well.

Sring Venka: Honestly I'm blanking on Venka. I think perhaps Venka isnt supposed to represent a character at all, but instead all the comfort women and victims of the Rape of Nanking, based on what happened to her during Golyn niis.

Yang Souji: He and his group the “Iron Wolves” remind me so much of the Shinsengumi. He even shares a name with Okita Souji, the captain of the first unit.

The Shinsungumi were also nicknamed “The wolves of Mibu”

I know the glaring problem with this is that the Shisungumi are Japanese, and should have been Mugini in this book, but I think these parallels are pretty cool in any case.

Chiang Moag- Ching Shih. Woah, as soon as I heard Lady Pirate, it was undeniable who Moag is. Ching Shih, the most famous pirate in China perhaps, and she was a woman.

Their backstories share similarities too. Ching shih was a prostitute, just like rumors around Moag.

The Cike: During the Zhou Dynasty, Wu Zetian (China’s only female emperor) had a secret police force that assassinated everyone she needed. This sounds incredibly similar to the way Daji used the Cike.

Altan Trengsin: I believe that Altan is like Rin; either an amalgamation of many characters or simply someone Kuang made for the sake of the story.

Ramsa: I believe him to be Nikara’s representation of the creation of fireworks. Not based off a person, but instead one of the Four great inventions of China. Or maybe I’m looking too far into it lol, since he doesn't strike me as being inspired from a myth, since he is not a shaman

Baji: Zhu Bajie of Journey to the West. Based on his description and his name, I had him guessed before they even said anything about pig.

His weapon is even the same as Bajie’s, a nine-toothed rake.

He also shares his desires, both of them being lusty for beautiful women

Suni: Sun Wukong. I had him guessed by his name as well. Although I believe the connection to be true, I cannot help but feel disappointed that the avatar of Sun Wukong was killed off so easily

The traits that these two characters share are pretty different, much more different than Baji had Bajie.

For one, Suni is generally calm when he is not being taken over by his god, and is pretty gentle and nice actually. This is very unlike Sun Wukong, and also the reason why I think Suni was a bad body for Wukong to take over, since I think their desires do not match up like Rin and Phoenix

Aratasha: The last in the trio, Sha Wujing. I was confused at first, since Aratasha is no fighter, but I realized his name sounds incredibly similar to Sha Wujing. Wujing was a sand river demon in JTTW, so I don’t think it was a stretch to believe that Aratasha was based off of him (his god is a river god, after all)

Plus, Aratasha died before Baji and Suni did. Wujing in JTTW was weaker than both of his companions.

Chaghan and Qara Suren: This may be a stretch, but I think Chaghan was inspired from Genghis khan. Gengis Kahn united the Mongols, like Chaghan united the Ketreids and Naimads. Even though the time period would be centuries apart (Genghis 1206, Qing Dynasty 1644-1912), it is the most likely option. It is unrecorded whether Gengis had any sisters, so I believe that Qara was made for the sake of plot (anchor).

Yin Family: The entire Yin family was taken from the story of Nezha. You can read more about the original story by searching his name in Wikipedia. R F Kuang kept a lot of things from the original tale, and these notes are what I have noticed

Yin Vaisra- Li Jing. Li Jing was also a great general, and in other stories, he was the head general in the Jade Emperor's Heavenly Army. If you know about “Journey to the West”, it was him who attempted to subdue Sun Wukong.

Yin Saikhara- Lady Yin

*its interesting how Kuang decided to make the mother’s name the family name for the Yins. Originally, I would have thought it was Li instead.

Muzha and Jinzha’s name were lifted directly from the source material

Mingzha is a character Kuang added, for Li Jing only had three sons (or 2 sons and a daughter in this case). There is no source material for how Muzha and Jinzha’s characters are; even in adaptations we rarely get to see any exploration of them.

Yin Nezha- Nezha:

Yin Nezha, like his original counterpart, was the third child of his father. Since Muzha was changed to a female, he is actually the second son.

He has the powers of the Dragon of the Western river (TBG 392), likely referring to the White Dragon in myths, who is the dragon ruler of the western sea.

Like the Nezha in the myth, Yin Nezha had an occurrence with a dragon that changed his life.

At the first battle between Nezha and Rin in TBG, it is stated he wears golden rings around his wrists and ankles. Guanyin bodhisattva did this to Nezha in Journey to the West, in order to placate him.

The Trifecta: All of the figures in the Trifecta were based on the Fengshen Yanyi (AKA the Investire of the Gods).

Jiang Ziya: His name was directly taken from the novel.

Su Daji: Her name was directly taken from the novel, as well as some of her penchants for murder. Daji, in both history and the novel, was infamous for her torture methods.

Jingzha being delivered back to his father in a dumpling holder would qualify as a toruture method. I applaud Kaung for being creative.

Yin Riga: I do not know if Riga is meant to be King Zhou or Ji Fa (the man who overthrew Zhou). Perhaps he was inspired by both of them, or neither.

Since Kuang did not go into depth into which gods were in the pantheon, I will make a list to who I think is there

Gods mentioned in the books:

Erlang Shen

Sanshengmu

Sun Wukong *implied through Suni

Zhu Bajie *implied through Baji

Huxian *implied through Unegen, and also Daji

Phoenix

Nuwa

Fuxi

The Four Dragon Kings (Yin Riga was likely the Dragon of the East) *There is no confirmation that there are multiple dragons, but I believe it was strongly implied

Chang’e

Xi Wang Mu, Queen Mother of the West

Zhenniao *implied through Pipaji

The Four Guardians (Azure Dragon, Vermillion Bird, White Tiger, and the Black Tortoise) *implied through Dulin, who summoned the Black Tortoise

Wong Tai sen *implied through Lianhua (Actually I am not sure, but I could not think of any other healer god in Chinese myths)

Gods not mentioned but I believe are in the Pantheon:

Yudi: Usually depicted as the husband of Xiwangmu

Hou Yi (Since Chang’e is there. However, there is a possibility that he is in Chuulu Korikh as punishment for killing the sons of Yudi)

Shennong: He exists between Nuwa and Fuxi as the “human”

The Eight Deities

Guanyin: (Since Wukong is implied to be a god) showed up in JTTW

Yanwang: (Since Wukong is implied to be a god) showed up in JTTW

Other tidbits:

Arlong’s name may have been the combination of “Azure” and the chinese word for dragon “Long”.

Aquebus are guns, but they shoot very slow. This aint a AK 47

The Red emperor could have been based off of Qin Shi Huang, or even the Jade Emperor himself.

Chuulu Korikh’s origin, although explained, has ties in Chinese myths. It was the mountain that encased Sun Wukong before he was broken out by Xuanzang. This means that the mountain was put there by the big B, Buddha. (Actually I can't remember if Kuang said who put the mountain down, but if she didnt specify this is what I think happened)

I am more familiar with Chinese history and myths, rather than Japanese ones, so if im missing something feel free to correct

#i finished all of them within 24 hours #im shaking #i wrote this right afater the last page of the burning god #holy shitttttttt #the poppy war #the dragon republic #the burning god #fang rin #nezha #fang runin #books #literature #yin nezha #chen kitay #tpw

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