currently reading Making Monsters by Richard Ofshe. it's a semi-comprehensive history of the recovered memory movement, it's history, it's faults, the development of satanic ritual abuse claims, and he touches on the movements relationship with conspiratorial thinking. i disagree with his belief that MPD is fictional but i understand that during his time the body of evidence for MPD was produced by hypnotherapists with a tenuous relationship to facts...the recovered memory movement has done caused so much damage to research on dissociative disorders.

i think Ofshe misses out on big players in the scene like Fritz Springmeier, and he seems unaware of the relationship between SRA and claims made in Edith Starr Miller's Occult Theocracy. on the whole Making Monsters is worth reading.

Alien Culture and Contemporary Paranoia

I wonder if you remember the late-’90s pop culture craze around aliens and UFOs. Movies, TV shows, and video games often referred to them. T-shirts, stickers, coffee mugs—bearing levitating discs and/or little green guys with huge black, often upside-down teardrop-shaped eyes—sold by the millions (one supposes). They often entailed foil and/or holograms. In magazine stands at grocery stores,…

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Do you think that there is some mental health issue related to long term belief in conspiracy theories? I understand ct’s being used as a coping mechanism or form of escapism but the constant unbridled belief after years is almost unsettling. I was reading a larries post about how babygate would likely end in 2023 and make way for a fresh start in 2024 and it was so similar to posts i’ve seen since this started in like 2015. It’s hard for me to imagine being proven wrong at every turn and still believing so whole heartedly. I don’t mean this to diagnose anyone either I just wondered what your thoughts were on long-term conspiracy theory belief on the way your mind works/views the world.

I think that it's less that long term belief in conspiracy theories causes a mental health issue of some kind and more that it can be a symptom of a mental health issue. Not always a symptom, but in some cases.

Conspiracy beliefs are a coping mechanism. Coping mechanism for what, exactly? That depends upon the person. There is some evidence to suggest that those with higher levels of dispositional anxiety are more likely to engage in conspiracism than those with lower levels. This doesn't cut against what we would see as "common sense" -- those experiencing more baseline anxiety will need to find ways to mitigate that anxiety, and conspiracism is highly accessible now and answers all the questions that can't be answered in any other way.

I saw a post yesterday or the day before that addresses what you've seen regarding the similarities between 2015 and today --

Anon: Ok.. so.. I’m a 2023 larrie but very strong one, no one or nothing can prove me to believe otherwise.. Anyway, I’m just wondering is this gayos normal in this fandom? I feel like something’s cooking big time.. but I haven’t been here long enough to know if this is normal? I mean both of them are single at the same time and all this other stuff going on. My question is if this is just a normal spring in Larryverse that or is it something “else”?

Larrie response: I’m pretty confident to say probably all of us experienced the feeling something big was about to happen just around the corner when we first joined the fandom, it doesn’t matter when. And I get many messages from new fans having that feeling for years now… so, I don’t think this is a build up for something, I think things just changed. [source/archive]

So I think it's less that we're seeing massive numbers of people continuing in conspiracy beliefs and more that there's a rotating cast who are unwittingly repeating the same mistakes as those who came before them. And this isn't because they're right, obviously, but instead because the structure of a conspiracy is the same regardless of the details. This is what makes the believers so predictable in their behavior.

Now, those who are long-time believers in a conspiracy theory? I'd wager that for the vast majority of them there is something underlying that belief that makes the belief preferable to reality, and the inability to accept that reality (what it says about the world, what it says about them) can damage their mental health. The longer you're in, the more it takes to unwind from it.

wilbur soot vore conspiracy theorism

this being the only french right-wing student union

person who does the whole "taylor swift is gay" conspiracy theorism song analysis thing, but for lil nas x. like doing lyrics analysis for montero and being like "there are subtle clues if you read between the lines.... that lil nas x may not be entirely straight..."

i suppose while im going through my infinity train phase again i should give you all some cool good reasons to watch it

it handles real life issues like being a child of divorce and growing apart with age

it has queer rep (albeit non-explicit)

there is a character who serves as a trans allegory

it handles the dangers of cult ideology and conspiracy theorism

it brings up interesting ways of handling morality

it has some cool mystery

it has maybe one of the coolest basic concepts for a show, which is a train that is INFINITELY LONG, and each car contains a different pocket reality

it's. just so fucking good

so if you can, fucking WATCH THIS SHOW. it's so glorious and you're gonna fall in love with it

Finally got around to making an IEYTD oc ^^

His name is Brandy Miller, he's a conspiracy theorist and has managed to work out what's going on between the Agency & Zoraxis

(Close-ups and transcripts for my terrible handwriting below the cut)

Brandy Miller

Conspiracy Theorist & Accounts Manager

- Unaffiliated with Zoraxis or the Agency, however, he knows practically everything about them.

- Friends with a double agent for Zoraxis & the Agency (Friend's OC) who tips him off in certain things to aid his theories since he can connect the dots better than them.

- Both the Agency & Zoraxis keep tabs on Miller as they think he works for the opposing side.

- SOMEHOW managed to tune into the Agency's Radio channel & creates transcripts of every broadcast.

- Also does the same with Zoraxis Presents.

- Was forcefully switched to decaf because of heart palpitations. He's not happy about it.

Uhhh bonus info - he wears 3d glasses but doesn't actually need normal glasses & he's also probably about 41 or so. Idk he's my loser boy who started as a concept and I got attached. He's probably American because of the whole Conspiracy Theorist thing in the 60s and he's kinna a play on that.

I also kinna headcanon him with autism kind of. To me his conspiracy theorism started because he got super into James Bond movies and ended up down a rabbit hole until he started uncovering the Zoraxis & Agency stuff. Then his special interest shifted to knowing absolutely EVERYTHING he could about it

I suggest talking to someone outside you and your fandom to understand why people call you conspiracy theorists. Cause tell me why I, a bi trans person person, have been told I don’t understand queerness because I don’t see the supposed queer signaling H&L do a lot of the time. Tbc I’m not strictly an anti or a Larry, I’m willing to accept H&L are or have been in a relationship together, I just don’t necessarily buy into stuff like only communicating through blue greening or shirts. These are conspiracies by definition. It reminds me a lot of the Paul Is Dead beatles theory were people tried to find clues through song lyrics and album covers. Pop culture conspiracy theorism is incredibly common.

You're not a conspiracy theorist for speculating that a celebrity might not be straight. You're a conspiracy theorist for thinking that a corporation is forcing a man to pretend to be a father and every image and video of Louis and Freddie is photoshopped or a deepfake.

Hello, anons!

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension again, because we were talking about why fans in other fandoms are using the term "conspiracy theorist" within their fandom about people who believe the one they stan is queer. The anon were surprised about the widespread use of the term and though it was contained to this fandom. We're not talking about this fandom or larries. It's well established that us larries are conspiracy theorists and why. Nobody is refuting that Larry Stylinson and babygate are conspiracy theories. Babygate is named after Watergate and conspiracies often ends in -gate. We larries created it and own it.

I also think we need to differentiate between celebrities who are in glass closets, don't comment on their sexuality or show any straight behaviour or push any narrative in the press vs. celebrities who have stated multiple times they're straight, sign bearding contracts or enters fake relationship and their label/agency make deals with the media to push a certain narrative, that's not true, to make said celebrity look straight. That's a conspiracy right there. Fans are being mislead and gaslighted by the celebrity, the label/agency the celebrity is signing the bearding contracts, and make deals and bargains with the media. Three powerful entities come together to sell a narrative that's not true to cover up the truth. That's a conspiracy right there.

So if Shawn Me*des says he's straight multiple times, enters relationships with female and show he's straight by doing pda, and the media writes about how Shawn is getting engaged to a woman or has a profile on Raya to find a new gf, while some fans believe this is all fake and made up to hide his sexuality and real relationship, said fans can be called conspiracy theorists.

If a conspiracy is in danger of being revealed, the conspirators might double down or try to illegitimise the conspiracy theorist by gaslighting further or ridicule them.

The Kategate conspiracy theorists said that Kate photoshopped the pic she posted to ig, and lo and behold she admitted it was photoshopped. You don’t need to believe everything everyone else believes in order to see that someone is hiding something and conspiring to cover it up. You don’t need to believe that H and L speaks through their t-shirts in order to believe that larry is real. You also don't need to believe that F is photoshopped in order to believe that L is gay and in a relationship with H, and not a father. You'll never agree with everyone about everything. You only need to believe that H and L are in a relationship to be a larrie and thus a conspiracy theorist, and you only need to believe that Louis is not F's biological father to believe babygate is real, and thus be a conspiracy theorist.

Just like Nixon was willing to go far to sabotage and cover up his DNC break in to win an election, huge music coorporations are willing to go far to cover up their golden goose's sexuality and real relationship in order to keep their fans and making money. In general, people in power are willing to cover up a lot in order to gain advantage and continue to win and thrive.

Foucault's Pendulum is a novel by Umberto Eco, most famous for his excellent novel The Name of the Rose and for his essay Ur-Fascism. I liked it, though I would certainly recommend The Name of the Rose (and possibly The Prague Cemetery, though that one's more a matter of what you're interested in) over it.

I do not think I am spoiling anything when I say that the novel is an exploration of the natural observation a rational person immediately makes when encountering occultist or conspiracy theorist thought. "I could come up with a much more convincing theory than that." These people have extremely low epistemic standards, tend to be basically ignorant about history, and have no sense of chronology. Consequently, it seems trivial to identify spurious connections the way they do and weave them consciously according to the obvious narrative structures that support their beliefs. Now, I don't believe actually doing this is quite as easy as it looks, but it's a tempting notion. I've got one on the back burner revolving around the Ford Motor Company Sociology Department.

The novel makes other observations about occultist/conspiracy theorist thought. The tendency to interpret anachronism as prophecy, the intellectuals who believe under a pose of neutrality, the economics of it, how strange it seems that so many leading men of the Enlightenment were into it, the curious politics and anti-politics of conspiracy theorism. Some of these are handled through digressions, some are integrated into the plot, both are inoffensive to the structure.

The novel is well-executed, though Eco does love to get fancy with it. How willing you are to indulge his references, quotations, layers of narrative and nonlinear timeline will significantly determine whether you enjoy the book, but I don't think the book is really as difficult as I've seen critics suggest. You just need to decide that in-jokes and references you didn't get probably weren't that important, and the details of the plot don't really matter. I've also seen the book described as postmodern. A tempting designation given that Umberto Eco was very literally a postmodernist, but quite frankly by the standards people apply to justify the "postmodern" label you could probably make that case for the Epic of Gilgamesh as well so I don't think that's very meaningful.

i feel like conspiracy theorism is straight culture .. the straight girls love theories and mysteries

I too can make a chart with 63 variants of common movie promo events with a few bound to happen precisely because they are COMMON movie promo. Conspiracy theorism is unfalsifiable exactly because yall have the common and ALL events put down as prediction. Add to that yall tinhats don't believe in coincidences cause yall are tinhats hahahhaaha and voila. You make 63 points predictions. I think a palm reader should make 63 predictions about your life with common ones bound to happen to you

oh also don't look, it's larries talking about red pills [source/archive]:

So is it blue socks for reality and red socks for illusion/dreaming?

And again with red and blue, what pills are you choosing the red ones or the blue ones?

i mean you've got it backward but whatever.

Hey! VTM anon here! Thanks for the advice! And my friend......definately had an interest in conspiracy theorism a few years ago, which makes alot more sense now with his interest in the game as it is. I'll try to talk to him about this later and see what he says.

All right! I hope it goes well!

You are the same as Amy, throwing tantrums like babies and then coming back to the cult cause you don't have anything else in your lives beside the larry cult. Buhu watch you larrying in a few days time when your tantrum is over. You are one of those cliche tinhats who never let go of conspiracy theorism

I want to thank you for posting about how insane the effective altruism community is and how Thielian it is like 6 years ago (maybe even further back). I've been on tumblr only sparsely since then but when i heard about how the ftx billionaires were part of this thing i thought of your posts and how right they turned out to be. I bet a lot of people remember this. So much seems to have metastasized about the things you were warning about (what feels like) very early on. Thank you for braving some deeply annoying reactionary interlocutors back then and being a voice of reason

thank you, it means a lot that you say that, i do consider my investigation into lesswrong and related to be some of the best work i've ever done, and i do think that if i hadn't been there sounding the alarm on that, a lot more people on tumblr could have gotten roped into that whole scam. like i really can imagine that whole thing getting a lot uglier if i hadn't warned people.

and like when that whole saga first started, i had no idea things were going to get so wildly out of control, like the way that it all started was that me and my mutuals were getting harassed by a bunch of people with "rationalist" in their bio, and i was like "okay who the hell are these people and where are they coming from" and i honestly didn't expect there to be anything substantial. i thought the answer would just be "they came from reddit" and that's it. so i was completely blindsided when i started digging and found out all this absolutely buck-wild shit about AI cults and Thiel funding. needless to say i found a lot more dirt on them than i was anticipating.

i'm about to go into tinfoil hat territory for a minute here, but i surmise that there is a particular psy-op strategy that involves the creation of two ostensibly opposed ideological factions which in truth serve the same broader ideological goals, positioning the "conflict" between them in such a way that people are compelled to take sides, and then leading the people on either side of that "conflict" into basically the same ideological trap. so for example, in the 80's there were a bunch of televised debates between christian figures and the church of satan, and it was this whole big broader culture war thing, presented in such a way that people would be compelled to take one side or the other, but in the end both sides of that debate were pushing a right-wing ideology which was identical on the most important points (anti-egalitarian/anti-socialist/anti-democratic. i'll be getting more into detail on that in an answer to another ask, i'm cleaning out my inbox right now).

similarly, with the recent upsurge in christian populist conspiracy theorism on tumblr these days, i can't help but imagine how much worse the scenario would be if the lesswrongers had succeeded in really taking root on tumblr and harassing the communists off the site, as they were clearly trying to. like i can imagine instead of the debate on tumblr being between "bill gates is bad because he's an evil wizard trying to give us the mark of the beast" vs. "no, bill gates is bad because he exploits his workers, poisons the earth, and is hoarding land and resources, etc" we had a scenario where the lesswrongers had supplanted the communists and the debate was between "bill gates is bad because he's an evil wizard trying to give us the mark of the beast" vs. "no, bill gates is good :)." honestly too horrible to contemplate.