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abirdie · 4 months

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"For me, ultimately maybe that's the aim: let's make a film that transcends"

Awards Radar has a fifteen-minute audio interview with Gael, chiefly about Cassandro, but there's no transcript so I transcribed it.

Gael García Bernal: Hello, how are you?

Joey Magidson: I'm doing alright. You know, it's cold. But such is winter in New York, so...

GGB: Yes, yes, exactly. Oh, but good, excellent.

[Ed: I would have trimmed out the small talk establishing that it's winter in New York — later it will emerge that both of them are in New York, but different locations — and it's cold, but that's relevant to some discussion that happens later so I left it in]

JM: Yeah, exactly. The alternative is much worse. I imagine this must be such a fun thing to do, because any movie you make you hope people respond to, you want to have a good experience, but not all of them you debut at Sundance and then you spend literally the entire year kind of celebrating it, in a way.

GGB: And a bit of silence as well because of the strike, no?

JM: Oh yeah, the added bonus there of “Oh, wait, now I just can't talk about it at all, but it still exists, right?” You know, it does, just — shhh — as long as you're quiet...

GGB: Exactly, yes. But now, fortunately, we're able to talk about it and also to, you know, close the circle a little bit — because it's always that energy, I mean, of doing something and afterwards seeing it come alive and see people's reactions and everything is so important. So, very happy to be able to do that, and very happy with the result as well and, yeah, it feels it's just beginning in a way.

JM: Oh yeah, for sure. I mean I think it's definitely a movie that's going to get discovered, even beyond this year, because I think it's serving more than one master, in a way. It's telling an important story. It's biographical. It also appeals if you enjoy wrestling. It's also — and not to undersell this point — it's entertaining.

GGB: Yes!

JM: And so many movies forget about that when they have an air of importance, and I can imagine a version of this movie that just forgets to be entertaining and you're like “But you know, it's about a guy who puts on a silly mask and fake fights people, right? Like that should be fun, still…”

GGB: Well, I mean, the nature of wrestling also involves… I mean, it's not only a very, very tough sport, and it's very highly skilled, and you have to be in top shape, and know how to do it, and train for many, many years to do it, but you also have to give a good show, you know, to give a good spectacle. So, it is a part of… I mean, we had to honor that as well. So, you know, we had to honor the fact that the film had to give a good show as well.

JM: I was just like curious what that experience is like because, as an actor, I'm sure you're ready to do your research, and you know what you're doing, and you know the character part is not necessarily challenging, but to also look and feel the part of a wrestler I'm sure is a slightly different experience, especially in a movie that— you know, it's still small and character based but, like you said, it has to work. If that part doesn't work, people will not respond in the way you guys want them to respond to.

GGB: Yeah, I mean, the preparation was quite extensive and there were, you know, we had the time to properly gain that ownership of the character, no? I trained like six months before, gaining muscle and just gaining like really, really… like strength, you know, but like inner strength, quite heavy workouts. And then afterwards it was the wrestling training, and that was really fun. It was hurting all over, you know, but it was nice to learn— I mean, it was essential, I’d say, to learn a lot of the tricks and the way to do it. You know, the codes of conduct, and just how to do… I mean, lucha libre is a mix of judo and Greco-Roman wrestling, acrobatics, and performance — you know, theater, carnival — so it's a mix of many things and it's amazing. I really, really enjoyed doing it.

JM: I think for the character also you have to sort of know the ins and outs because of the violations that happen within it with the opponents. If you don't have that feel, it'll… you know.

GGB: Yeah, exactly.

JM: Also I think for just for the experience of like, “Oh, if somebody did it wrong, this is what happens. Oh, I did it wrong fifty times before I can get it right. It hurts when I get it wrong. OK, I get why that happens.”

GGB: Exactly. Yeah. And that's funny because some of the wrestlers, whenever they get their character, you know, like whenever they start to play with the character and start to develop it — because that requires a lot of… you know, you're training wrestling, but at the same time you're also finding the character at that point. And most of them, you know, their first tries of the characters that they come up with, they don't work. They’re trying, like… they don't connect. You know, there's something that is not there. And then all of a sudden, when they find it, it becomes amazing because it's like “OK!” It's something that that goes beyond, also, what they can control, because there is like… you know, it depends a lot on the alchemy that happens with the audience and… I don't know, just the accident of what works and what doesn't, so that is also very interesting about lucha libre, the finding the character kind of thing.

JM: I can imagine very appealing for an actor to go “Why does this character work more than this other one? I thought that was going to be a big hit. There's something there, I can tell.”

GGB: Exactly, exactly. It's very similar to that, yeah.

JM: Backtracking a little bit, what made the project something you wanted to do in the first place? I'm sure you get offered things in both native language and also in the States. It's not like there aren't movies looking to cast you, but what makes a specific one — and really, specifically, this one — the one that you say yes to, because you can only do so many at a time. This is especially… like you said, there's physical demands here; what makes it, essentially, the camp you want to go to, because it's like going to camp?

GGB: Yeah, well, this one, immediately what sparked my attention was the lucha libre aspect. You know, I was like, “OK, sounds great to do a lucha libre movie, you know, like never done it, maybe I'm only going to get one chance, you know?” So it's like, “OK, let's go for this!” And then the other thing was the character of Cassandro is something that also appealed to me, you know. I used to follow Lucha Libre when I was a kid, so that… you know, all the dots started to connect. And then little by little, like all films, all of a sudden the thing starts to become something that I get excited about, you know, for many reasons, and all the people start to collaborate and start to join, and then you're full of a huge album of reasons why you want to do this, that you later forget what was the clicking point?. But I'd say that, just mechanically speaking, the answer to that was when my production company got involved. It was when the film started to become a reality, you know, and that was really nice to do that.

JM: Because almost up until the camera rolls, you have no idea if it's ever going to happen, especially when it's…

GGB: Oh yeah, even before the film opens at a festival, you know, like you're still thinking, “OK, might not exist”, you know.

JM: We've learned that that can actually be the case now, so it's dangerous… like “I thought I really thought we made a movie, I got paid, how did this not come out?”

GGB: Yeah, it's been happening recently, right? Yeah, that's so weird.

JM: It's very counterintuitive. These things are expensive; you’d think they want to make money… Especially I think with a movie like Cassandro, you're watching it and it's easy to get sucked in, I think. Because you're as good an actor as you are, but also it's directed by someone with a documentary background.

GGB: Oh, thank you.

JM: The idea of, you know, we're not going to… it can be a big story and fantastical, but it's so locked in on character and it's so locked in on the story that I think Roger just does such a good job also and you guys combined to do something that — I think there's a reason it's going to be a year soon since I saw it and people are still talking about it.

GGB: How cool. Hopefully that happens. You never know. You know, with films, it's like that's… I think, for me, ultimately maybe that's the aim, you know, like “OK, let's make a film that transcends, you know, like in some way or another.” Because we're full of… everyone's full of great ideas, but never know if these films are going to work, you know, and have that kind of transcendence. And so hopefully, hopefully, hopefully what you're saying becomes a reality, hopefully.

JM: Well, so far you’ve got eleven months already, so that's pretty good. But I think it’s true also that if you don't like it to start it's never going to work, because why would you commit the time, right?

GGB: Yeah, exactly.

JM: So at the end of the day you liking it is the first step, right? You— you've got to be happy in your life. You’ve got to be happy with your job. But if only you liked it, I'm sure that doesn't feel as good as “Oh wait. People stop me to talk about the movie” or people doing press for it after, you know, I've made other things. And then the idea of “it's got a life, and it seems to have staying power” is sort of the added bonus. So, when it happens, I'm sure you can't even plan it out. You can't go “This is the one!” because...

GGB: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

JM: It does feel like one people organically want to gravitate towards and I think it's partly the character, never having seen that before on screen like that. But also, I think the fact that it's a story about a storyteller in a way — like you were saying, wrestling is very much a combination of acting and sports and standup comedy, in a way.

GGB: [laughs] Yeah.

JM: And I interviewed John Cena a couple of years ago, and he said it's amazing training because you get told immediately if your joke landed or not. There's no audition process. If the audience doesn't respond. Whoops, you did it wrong.

GGB: Yeah, it has that. You have to read the audience really well and — that's the thing — you have to give a really, really good show, and a lot of sports should do that, should really also give a good spectacle. [breaks off] Oh, these are real people! I'm sorry, I'm looking at people that are... no… you think there's people like with no… they're statues, no... or wax figures or something. OK, there's people that are with bathing suits out in Park Avenue. You know, like… they look very real, though.

[Ed: I assume that what Gael’s looking at out of the window are in fact Carole A. Feuerman’s hyper realistic swimming sculptures]

JM: It’s “Why are you doing that? That seems like a choice…”

GGB: Exactly, a strange choice.

JM: “Choices have been made and I respect your choice, but I won't be joining you.”

GGB: Exactly [laughs]

JM: I'm down in Brooklyn, I'll be in Manhattan later or something. Actually, I'll now go look at that. I'm curious what that is... I think as we wrap up, I think the idea of — even for you just in terms of your satisfaction with it — you can tell in your voice how fun it was, but as a kid, having watched wrestling, you were saying… Can you imagine, beyond that even just like, “Oh, if I can be an actor one day that would be amazing”, but to get to be an actor who gets to essentially do the thing you watched as a kid has to be doubly satisfying.

GGB: Yes, yes, yes, that's exactly… that logic is beyond bonkers, like it's crazy that that can happen. And it does happen, and it's fun. It's incredible because it’s really “Wow, I can't even believe it,” you know, that I was able to be flying in the ring at this age. And I used to play that with my friends when I was a kid, and we used to destroy the room, we used to jump and destroy the beds as well, like kids do. And now I'm doing it as an adult, and also living from that, and enjoying it, but also without the training and the dedication that this sport requires. Like, I mean, I did a little bit of the training, but not like these guys really do, you know, because it takes ages and ages to get really good at this. So, yeah, that is amazing. I was very, very happy, and very happy to be an actor.

JM: And I think it shows. I think it shows in all of your performances there is a joy in getting to do this.

GGB: Oh, thank you.

JM: And I think it's something that people respond to. You know, we don't lack for actors in the world. There's always another one, right? And they'll probably find one who looks just like them, right. There's never… you never have that problem. But I think when you see someone enjoy the work. Or, you know, seek to do stuff that's interesting, but also connect with the audience. There's something there that people respond to, you know? There's a reason that your career is now, you know, twenty-something years old. It's the idea of people want to watch you and, you know, you don't always know why: you're happy it happened—

GGB: No, of course...

JM: —but I think it feeds into why you want to do good work, also. There's a back and forth. There's a conversation happening.

GGB: Thank you. Well, I hope it continues. I hope it continues because it's important to also… it's like, to enjoy something you have to, let's say, nurture it or like, you know, water the plants, no? And also go always go back to those essentials that make the whole system kind of still in place. You know, the whole joy of that. And I think, I think… I hope I can— I mean it's also great to see actors that are very old, very veteran, and they've been doing this for many, many years. And they're great at this, but also they have a lot of fun doing it, no? And so that's fantastic to see.

JM: Exactly. There's nothing better than people still having fun. And it's the same for directors, same for everyone. I mean, look at who you've come up with. You’ve come up with people who have staying power behind the camera, in front of the camera. And they seem to be having fun. I think at the end of the day, if you can have fun, if you can see the people you respect and like also have fun, and you guys can do something that people want to see and respond to, I think you have more than sufficiently watered the plants, to put it as you said. I look forward to the conversation continuing because that's the thing about the longer it goes, the longer it continues.

GGB: I hope so. Yes, yes, absolutely.

JM: Thank you so much for doing this and congrats on the movie again, it's just so much fun.

GGB: Thank you. Thank you. That's really nice of you. Thank you, man. Thank you for the conversation.

JM: Likewise, take care. Have a good one, man.

GGB: You too. Bye. Bye. Ciao.

#gael garcía bernal #gael garcia bernal #cassandro #cassandro 2023 #ggb interview

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