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itspileofgoodthings · 4 years

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I can’t believe people really hate the Death Star fight when that might be my favorite scene from the entire trilogy! For many reasons but mostly because it’s the scene that made me really love Rey in a way I just couldn’t before because it solves both of my previous problems with her.

Rey’s arc in TLJ is well-written and executed even better and I respect the hell out of it but on a deep level it has ALWAYS frustrated me. (She’s supposed to, I think.) But she’s still not being honest. She’s struggling and failing to communicate. She’s hiding everything underneath heroic “reasons”. She can’t admit, to Luke, to Ben, but most importantly even to herself, that the reason she’s rushing off to save Ben is because she wants him. She HAS to hide it as being “for the cause” and the second she and Ben are alone she continues to pretend that her reasons are purely pragmatic. She CAN’t Speak, she can’t explain, and in the face of Ben clumsily, messily trying to articulate what he feels and what he wants she can only trick him and reach for her weapon. Falling back on what she knows how to do (fight, not talk) again. And then the movie framed her as winning (in a sense). As standing above Ben and angrily shutting the door on him as if he’d messed up. And of course he had but he wasn’t the only one. And I loved all of this but only if it was intentionally shown to be a flaw on her part. If the movie showed that even if she was “right” she was also still wrong, still unfair, still with things to work through. And the fight in the rain provides all of that and more.

My two biggest problems with Rey prior to TROS could be boiled down to: fear that the narrative thought she was perfect, and fear that she didn’t actually love Ben. (Yes, I basically had Ben’s exact insecurities. What if she DID actually hate him? What if she DID only want to use him as a tool? She’d never said otherwise! Not really.) The fight in the rain showcases Rey being utterly unreasonable in her violence against him and utterly unfair. She still won’t talk. She sets her jaw and attacks instead. She does what she knows and refuses to grow. And then she kills him in a moment when he’s distracted. In a fight when he NEVER tried to kill her and even gave her space to recover when she was down. She crosses over the (implicit, unspoken) line they’ve established between them where they know they won’t really hurt each other. She gets angry enough, frustrated enough that she does something cheap and impulsive and stupid all because she is too angry to see clearly. It’s a huge flaw and tbh I think it’s FRAMED as one. The scene comes to a screeching halt as Rey registers, in horror, what she’s done, both on Ben’s account, Leia’s account, and her own. Leia’s presence pulls her out of her anger; facing the horror of what she’s done breaks down her last vestiges of her stubborn anger and frustration towards him. But on both counts Rey is forced to admit that she made a mistake. This confirms and fits beautifully with all that we have seen (or more intuited) of Rey’s weaknesses so far. It’s rash, impulsive, and it favors violence over communication. It’s a perfect character moment because it is one of if not THE first clear moment where we see that she isn’t perfect.

And then not only does she heal him (which can and should undo any anger towards her from fans that she killed him in the first place, seriously how the HELL can you be angry at Rey for stabbing Ben when literally the next second she undoes it—like wtf kind of logic is that?) but—which is personally more important to me—she speaks. If she had only healed him, he and we could still have ascribed other motives to it, still have seen it as part of her savior act, as part of her “I’m doing this for Leia/the resistance” schtick, but the words make it inescapable. “I did want to take your hand. Ben’s hand.”

An affirmation not only of her present feelings but her past as well. An admission, necessary and needed to make up for a time in which, to her detriment and everyone’s, she refused to speak. She makes that wrong right here. And she does so so beautifully, so kindly, so compassionately. So far Ben has had an easier time showing compassion to her than she has to him and a lot of that makes sense. Rey is right to be wary of him, to have her defenses flung up around her, to not want to get anywhere near his offers of love and destruction. But still. Here is where she shows him compassion and tenderness like she hasn’t before and that he desperately needs. And she does it in the best way. Yes, Ben and Kylo are the same person. Of course. But that’s the point. Ben is who he is, who he has always been. And Kylo is a chosen persona of destruction and darkness. The dual names work well for discussing the choices that he’s made. Kylo isn’t real but he is destructive and so far KYLO has been the one to offer his hand. He has HIDDEN behind it because he is afraid he on his own will not be enough. She is reminding him here that he IS enough but until he accepts that fact and stops hiding behind a false persona she can’t stay with him. But she does it so kindly. These are the words that undo all his hurt, these are the words that settle the raging insecurity he must have been feeling this whole time, these are the words that cut to his heart, that are an expression of love, a challenge to him to do better at the same time, sure, but only because it is an expression of love. Love, all on its own, is a challenge to do better.

They are the only things that could have saved him. No reproaches, no insults, no condescending explanations. Just love and with it framed so clearly the exact way that he is cutting himself out of love but still not even framed as an accusation. Just showing, sadly, the way she has been cut out of it too.

It’s because of these words that he can accept the presence of his father that Leia sends him right away, that he can finally let the light in. They change everything. And for the better.

To me it’s a perfect scene.

#reylo #star wars: tros #shuts off all the voices to write this meta #i guess it's #tros positivity #always like to put it in the tag in case someone is looking for some

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jorjigirl · 4 years

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I’m late to the Rise of Skywalker party but there’s stuff I really need say...

I’m so disappointed with the lack of vision from J.J and the studio. The plot feels like it was drawn up by committee and leaned heavily into retconning TLJ. Why? TLJ has a Rotten Tomatoes critics rating of 90%. It wasn’t a flawless movie but it was PRETTY DARN FANTASTIC. I loved it. I loved the way it dived into the inner lives of our characters. Finn wrestling with his commitment to a greater cause rather than running away, Poe learning to control his impulse to act in a hotheaded manner, Rey coming to terms with her parents’ abandonment, Kylo’s inner conflict deepening with every encounter with Rey. Adam excelled in his role. He played it perfectly as they all did but I felt Adam rose to the occasion. TLJ was addressing the growth of the characters in a mature way.

And what was the reception to this? Whiny fanboys weeping into their neckbeards that Luke was not their solid gold, infallible hero. His story arc made perfect sense to me and ended beautifully. He made peace with his failures - a hard lesson to learn but one that finally brought him closure.

Kylo Ren was ripe for redemption in TROS. Everything had been set up for it. We understood him, knew how scared he was, what he was trying to overcome. As a Reylo, Rey and Ben were my endgame. And yet to stand up for Ben’s redemption, we are called weirdos. It seems to go like this:

fanboys: WOO YEAH Darth Vader is such a BADASS!! The end of Rogue One where he killed everyone was AMAZING - that’s the Vader I remember!

everyone:

Reylos: I hope Rey and Ben end up together.

everyone: HOW DARE YOU FANCY A MASS MURDERER! HE SHOULD GO TO PRISON TO SERVE HIS TIME. NO REDEMPTION COOKIES FOR YOU!

Do you think I don’t know the difference between Ted Bundy and Kylo Ren? (Hint: one person is fictional...) The pearl-clutching hysteria for daring to root for Kylo Ren when fanboys are all heart-eye emojis at Vader with no one saying a thing is annoying.

Also, this is a science fiction fairytale. EVERYTHING happens on a grand scale. The action and consequences have to play out in a grand, OTT way. So Ben’s redemption should play out epically to make the massive leap from ‘evil’ to ‘good’. That’s the nature of this storytelling. It isn’t about realism where we watch a 3 hour movie of Kylo Ren being charged and sentenced for war crimes.

If J.J had clarity of vision he could have convinced the audience that Ben was worth saving. Instead he made it clear that Rey was the saviour of the Skywalker line. I’ve loved and defended Rey at every step but the ending made me hate her a little. Ben deserved more but the reaction and vitriol shook the studio. We got thrown a bone with a kiss and a smile but nothing more than that. Ben was not honoured in any way for saving Rey. It felt like his monumental sacrifice was quickly forgotten. If J.J had to kill him off could he have not at least made the audience care? No, of course not. He had to quickly dispatch him for his ‘happy’ ending where Rey finally gets a surname.

LOLWUT?

That’s what this was all leading to? That’s your big moment for the audience to sigh in relief?

I feel so cheated. But hey, I liked D.O and Babu Frik so it’s not a total loss, right?

I wanted so much more than this.

I understood Rian’s vision. He’s a Phantom phan and so am I so maybe that’s why his vision chimed with me, lol. He knew that exquisite push and pull from darkness to light was worth exploring and gave Kylo Ren the space to do that. I only wish J.J had picked up that thread and run with it.

#TROS #star wars #reylo #adam driver #the last jedi #kylo redemption #quotes

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stoppingby · 4 years

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26 and 39 for reylo

okayyy getting around to this now bc i’m bored and i love these two more than life. Also, all of this is canon-compliant but like if TROS ended at the kiss and Palps isn’t Rey’s grandpa.

26. How do their friends feel about their relationship? Their families?

Okay so this is a complicated one. Ben’s family isn't really available to say the least, but in my mind, Leia and Anakin give very enthusiastic approval in Force Ghost form (Anakin lowkey cries because he would but also because he's so grateful that Ben is getting what he never was strong enough to get with Padme). Luke takes a little longer to come around but he definitely does eventually, probably through seeing Anakin’s reaction truthfully. As for Chewie, he is there for Ben as soon as he comes back without fail and he loves the two of them like children (he absolutely takes on the role of Leia and Han begging for a wedding and grandkids). Rey obviously doesn’t really have family apart from her friends, and I definitely think there is tension there when Rey first brings back to the Resistance base. Because she’s very optimistic and has a super intuitive sense of someone’s true character (in addition to her just understanding Rey’s perspective better as a girl), I think Rose is probably the first one to welcome Ben into the fold and I love to imagine that they actually get really adorably close, like Ben gravitates toward her because she immediately accepts that Ben is Ben and Kylo was a part of that but he's not anymore. Unpopular opinion, I actually think Finn is next to get on board and I didn't always feel that way but @kasiopea-star-wars incredible post-TROS fix-it art/graphic novel-esque thing convinced me (check out the last part if you want to see why). As for Poe, I think he takes a little more time to come around just because he always knew or knew-of Ben and was incredibly close with Leia and the whole family and so it’s hard for him to let go of what Ben has done, even if it’s clear that others have forgiven him and he is working on making amends. When he eventually does accept Ben and Rey’s relationship, he is the one member of the little Resistance family that actually ends up feeling closer with Ben than with Rey, but they have a very quiet, special friendship. Ben is the one person Poe is more solemn around, but I think they pull epic pranks on their significant others (Rey and Finn).

39. Who initiated the relationship? Who kissed who first? When did they realize they were in love?

The first two here are addressed in the movies and I’ll stick to the canon on that (Ben and Rey, respectively). As far as the last question goes, I feel like Ben realizes he’s in love with her or at least infatuated pretty quickly. I would go as far as to say he knows he doesn’t ever want anyone else even as early as the interrogation scene or at the very latest the final battle in TFA, but I would say him realizing he actually genuinely loves her is probably during their first ForceTime connection (lol) because I think he realizes how much he missed her then and how much more alive he feels when she’s around and when he’s talking with her, even though she doesn’t believe it, he can be Ben again. I think the first time she calls him Ben also really solidifies that, but he definitely loved her before that too. As for Rey, it’s very different because where Ben’s discovery is her when they first meet her arc is much more focused on her realizing she’s force sensitive. I would say Rey realizes she loves Ben when he’s the first person she wants to talk to after the cave and he tells her she’s not alone, but I don’t think she’d term it love at that point. I feel like it’s only upon reflecting during the year between TLJ and TROS when they’re not talking and she’s thinking about him and all the things each of them have done — the interrogation, fighting in the forest, touching hands in the hut, not feeling alone, her fighting Luke because of what he did to Ben, talking in the elevator, him saving her, fighting together in the throne room and working in perfect tandem, seeing ben swoloooo, the feeling of having to walk away from his hand — that leads her to understand that that’s love. I feel like she thinks the thought and immediately shuts it down in case anyone can see inside her head because she’s scared of being opened up to pain, but I also think every decision she makes from then ultimately stems from needing to get to Ben and help him and love him. Sort of returning to the family question, it almost wouldn't matter if their family and friends approved because as soon as they realize their feelings, they are bound to each other like family would be. They are family, essentially, from then.

#reylo #rey nobody #ben solo #kylo ren #ali talks #ask box questions

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dalekofchaos · 3 years

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Few simple changes that I think could've saved Solo A Star Wars Story as a movie

Just a few things I think could’ve improved Solo

Anthony Ingruber plays Han Solo. He looks like Harrison Ford, he talks like Harrison Ford, and he even played a young Harrison Ford in the film Age of Adaline. Anthony Ingruber had even audition for the role of Han Solo and the fact he didn’t get it for a guy who had so much trouble, they needed to bring in an acting coach. Alden was so unconvincing as Han it was laughable. Anthony Ingruber was the perfect person to play Han and he should’ve been Han Solo. If Anthony played Han, it could’ve been as great as Donald’s take on Lando.

Han Solo picks his own name. Han is a rebel without a cause. He doesn’t care where he came from, so a random Imperial Officer should not be given Solo his last name. This is Han’s story, he should tell the officer that he’s Han Solo. Han not calling himself Solo was a really bad sign.

No L3-37, Qi’Ra and no Maul. Qi’Ra derailed Han as a character(I’ll explain more later), L3 really served no purpose and her being inserted into the Falcon is both fridging and takes away from Han making the Kessel Run and Maul served no purpose to be in a movie about Han Solo when Han does not believe in the Jedi or the force

Replace Qi'Ra with Sana Starros. Danai Gurira plays Sana

Focus more on Han Solo as a character. The problem I had with the movie is it focuses on everyone but Han and was just showing how he gets his things

Keep in the Imperial Cadet deleted scene in. It shows Han is a good pilot, that Han wanted to do the right thing while his time in service, but the Empire cares more about equipment than lives. In a sense, Han begins as optimistic and happy before and during his time with the Imperials, and then when we meet him after he's been an Imperial for a while, he's thoroughly beaten down by it and that's what turned him into the cynical bastard we saw at the start of New Hope.

Change the Battle of Mimban to Battle Of Kashyyyk. Reason? This is where Han would save Chewie. I always loved the Legends take where Han's superiors wanted Chewie dead, but instead Han saves Chewie. So here, we would soon realize that the Empire is here to beat down a Wookie Rebellion. Han is tasked by his superior officer to kill the captured Chewnacca. Han chooses to save Chewie and stuns his superior officer. Han and Chewie flee the planet and that's when Beckett's crew picks up Han and Chewie

Han is mentored by Beckett and it makes him the callous and cold smuggler we know him to be in A New Hope. Their relationship is similar to Fast Eddie and Vincent in Color Of Money

With no Qi’Ra, Beckett’s connection to Vos would introduce us to Lando

Focus more on Han and Lando’s friendship. Show us why Han and Lando have a strong friendship, show don’t tell. Have Han and Lando being smugglers in arms. And finally Lando would not leave he would patch himself up and return to help Han in the end. We really needed to see why Han sees so much reverence in his friendship to Lando in ESB. What we got from Solo makes Lando’s betrayal unsurprising. We needed to see why Lando was willing to sacrifice an old friendship to save Bespin from the Imperials, the emotional weight of Han and Lando’s friendship wasn’t there in the movie, it needed to be there so their friendship should’ve been one of the core elements of the movie.

Make Dryden Vos more of a legit threatening villain. Paul Bettany used to play really fucking evil gangster characters and that’s what I was hoping Dryden was going to be playing, but he was barely there. Make him cruel, and a clear danger. Prior to the meeting, show him execute an underling for insubordination and have him say “sorry for the mess” and show us that Beckett is in a horrible debt that he can’t seem to get out of, a mirror of Han and Jabba’s relationship in the future

The heist would be to steal Coaxium from a complex security vault on Kessel

Han and Sana would get “married” as a pretense for the big heist, while Lando and Chewie make the big score.

Han would make the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs on his own. Han needed to make the Kessel Run on his own. Having a droid being part of why he made the Kessel Run takes away the great feat that Han made and brags about in ANH. It shows he’s a great pilot and has what it takes. That’s kinda what we needed to see.

Beckett sells everyone out to Vos as per canon

When Vos has Han at his mercy, Lando comes to make the save and they kill Vos together

Han shoots Beckett first. But not because it was right or because of the money. Because Han saw it coming. Han learned everything from Beckett. Beckett would say “I would’ve done the same thing, kid.” and Han would say “I had a great teacher.” There needed a slight moral conundrum. Han respects Beckett and has learned a lot from him, but also knows that he absolutely can not be trusted and will inevitably kill Han without a care in the world if it means Beckett gets a better deal.

Han would only give Enfys Nest the Coaxium in exchange for a reward. So Enfys would give Han, Lando, Sana and Chewie enough stolen money the Marauders acquired throughout the years to be the perfect reward. Enfys asks Han to join the Rebellion, but Han makes it clear he’s in it for the money

The movie would end with Han and Lando playing Sabacc for the Falcon, maybe tweak it a little so it’s both a dice and card game, so that way Han uses the Dice we would see in TLJ to win the Falcon. This way it makes way more sense as to why Leia and Ben would feel emotional over the dice. It’s the lucky Dice that won the Falcon, it brought Han and Leia together and it’s something worth Ben feeling emotional about instead of Han’s jilted ex lover’s dice

Han should end the film leaving him as a guy who is mostly only going to get involved in capers due to the money. So that we can still make sense of the scene in ANH in which he takes the money and leaves (on Yavin) but only afterwards has a strike of conscience and returns to help Luke.

Solo wasn’t really a bad movie, I think it is a fun movie with great potential. The problem is they focused more on the future and not in the now, a movie about Han Solo does not focus on Han Solo and it’s not necessary at all and the story is very forgettable, and it really is just a cash grab. There is nothing remarkable about the movie and the only two characters who stand out as 100% only enjoyable to me are Enfys Nest and Lando. The rest of the characters just feel like unnecessary adds or barley passable imitations. So these are ways I would change Solo to make it a great movie

They made the movie about everything BUT Han Solo and their attempts to make Han a good man just betrays the character we knew in A New Hope. The reason why I chose to cut out Qi'Ra is because Han Solo having a love interest in my opinion was a pretty poor choice. Han Solo was always implied to be a loner before Leia came into his life. His name is SOLO. Han is a criminal smuggler, if anything he would've been sleeping around like Captain Kirk, especially Han in his 20's. Hell, in a deleted scene for ANH, Han basically has a small fling in the Cantina. As a matter of fact, showing that he was this intimate with someone before Leia takes a little bit of the mystique away from their relationship in later movies. I also felt like Han and Leia worked because they were the only ones who would get under each other's skins, but with here, Han and Qi'ra are just kind of in a relationship at the beginning and it's like "oh we don't even know these people" seeing him so deeply affected over another woman makes Han Solo comes across as a little bit more vulnerable than the Han we met in A New Hope.

Also why even have Qi'Ra when it's established that Han already had a wife in canon? Kathleen Kennedy sure does love her white Brunnettes doesn't she?

As for Maul. Does it need saying? Maul died in Rebels and bringing him back was pointless since mainstream audiences do not know that he survived. Also Han does not believe in the force and believes a blaster is superior to a Lightsaber

This whole movie shows a far more human Han, he's shown to be somewhat empathetic and sympathetic of others. He gives too much of a damn, there's a time or two in Solo where Han chooses to do what's right as opposed to what's right for him, he does jobs without looking for a real reward and that's just not Han Solo. In this movie it's clear that Han has a moral compass, whereas in the original trilogy, he was a lot more morally ambiguous and it was through Luke and Leia's influence and place in life that he began to become good. In A New Hope he had to constantly be reassured that he was going to be preciously rewarded. This completely destroys Han's arc in the original trilogy as this movie implies that Han was always a good guy.

#Star Wars #Han Solo #Solo A Star Wars Story #Lando Calrissian #Solorissian #Sana Starros #Chewbacca #Tobias Beckett #Drydon Vos

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atamascolily · 4 years

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Metaphors vs. world-building in Star Wars landscapes: a ramble

Readers of my fics will know I am a big believer in the idea of the landscape as a reflection of the inner life of my characters. They also know I'm fond of "layers," which is my term for plot and character decisions that resonate on both literal and symbolic levels, and draw on archetypes and references that I find interesting and meaningful. One of the reasons I enjoy playing in the Star Wars sandbox is that the original trilogy really GETS that; one of the major reasons why I think the franchise is so popular is that it taps all this other stuff on both conscious and subconscious levels.... and this is especially true when it comes to landscapes.

Take Dagobah, a swamp planet shrouded in mists. As he struggles with his training in The Empire Strikes Back, Luke is literally bogged down, trapped in a landscape where his vision is obscured and nothing--from the tiny creature who turns out to be the teacher he was searching for to Darth Vader himself--is what it appears to be.

At the same time that Luke is struggling on Dagobah in ESB, Han and Leia are having their own struggles with illusion and deception on on the gas giant Bespin. Cloud City is literally a "castle in the air," beautiful in appearance but lacking any grounding--as a dis-armed Luke literally discovers when hanging suspended from what passes for foundations.

(As an aside, I appreciate Luke's "fall from grace" during his fight with Vader, and its parallels to the myth of Icarus. Icarus ignored the warnings and flew too close to the sun, only to die because his father couldn't reach him in time; Luke ignores the warnings and confronts Vader, only to deliberately refuse his father's outstretched hand. I don't know if the filmmakers consciously intended that parallel, but they nailed it.)

Yet by the time Luke returns to Dagobah in Return of the Jedi, the ubiquitous mist has vanished, and he is able to walk through the swamp in knee-high black boots without a speck of mud on him. The "veil" over his eyes has been lifted both literally and metaphorically--he now knows the truth about his father, and has accepted it.

We all know that world-building in Star Wars ranges from mediocre to non-existent, but there’s very little in any of the OT landscapes that seems grossly out of place within the context of the films themselves. The same is not true for the ST, where the filmmakers toss the world-building out the window and just go with what looks/seems the coolest (*cough* Starkiller Base *cough cough*).

In The Last Jedi, the Ahch-To sequences are supposed to parallel what we've seen in ESB of Luke's own training under Yoda. The filmmakers chose to site Ahch-To on Skellig Michael, a World Heritage site off the Irish coast, which works great on a metaphorical level. At the same time, they claim “Temple Island” be the site of the original Jedi Temple--which was a poor choice from a world-building perspective.

Just as the island is a lonely, rocky peak emerging from the ocean, so is Luke, tucked away in his self-imposed exile. I hate that nu!canon did that to him, but metaphorically it checks out. Just as Christianity survived in large part due to small, isolated outposts like Skellig Michael, so too have the Jedi been reduced to this final bastion. Luke's decision to self-isolate makes no sense in a larger context, but the symbolism is clear and consistent.

Because of this, the Ahch-To sequences are the most visually compelling in the entire movie for me. I like the juxtaposition of Rey, a desert child, literally out of her depth in the cave sequence--although I would have had her "vision" arise from staring at her reflection in the water as opposed to an actual mirror, because, you know, METAPHOR.

On the surface, Skellig Michael seems like a reasonable choice from a world-building perspective. It's home to a famous Gaelic Christian monastery founded somewhere between the 6th and 8th centuries. Since the Jedi are envisioned in the PT as space warrior-monks (retconned from the samurai analogues they are strongly implied to be in A New Hope), a monastery seems like a good fit for them, right? Well, yes, and no.

The problem is when nu!canon tries to claim that this is the home of the first Jedi temple--because that doesn't make sense from a logistical OR metaphorical perspective.

Historically, there were only 12 monks and an abbot living at the Skellig Michael monastery at any given time. I'm sure some of the Jedi could have doubled up, but there's still only so many people the island can support, unless their food is coming from elsewhere (From the Lanai? From somewhere else? who? what? how?) And where did those Jedi come from? Were they born on the island? Were they all related? Why did they build their temple THERE as opposed to some other place? How did they get off the island and into the stars? What was their tech level like, given that all we see of them (books, architecture, etc) is very low-tech to begin with?

To be fair, it may well be that Ahch-To is far more variable than the single-biome worlds we see elsewhere in Star Wars, but...do we see any of this, ever? NOPE. And the whole point of using Skellig Michael is to visually explore how little the Jedi Order has changed over the centuries... even their stonework is still there, thanks to the Caretakers (note that Rey, the disrupter, keeps knocking them down because METAPHOR), so I feel like it's okay to say that other things were probably the same however long ago the Jedi Order arose (which nu!canon is kinda vague about).

There is one reason why you'd build a temple there, though--and it has to do with the "Jedi as space mariners and star navigators" motif that nu!canon has been building up as a precursor to its High Republic mode. The temple site is literally a lighthouse, perched over the ocean, with the sun streaming in along the floor in a way meant to evoke ancient devices for measuring the arc of the sun. And I bet it has a fantastic view of the stars--perfect for people whose books are filled with geometrical depictions of planetary orbits and carry star compasses attuned to the Force.

But the FIRST Jedi temple? The first ever?? This I very much doubt, any more than Christianity itself originated at the Skellig Michael monastery. Not without a hell of a lot more world-building than they've ever bothered to show us.

Nu!Canon also tries to tell us that Ahch-To is the original homeworld for the uneti trees, which again, is fucking ridiculous without a little more world-building given that SKELLIG MICHAEL HAS NO TREES and the only one that we see in TLJ is ALREADY DEAD. This works well as a metaphor--the Jedi are a literal dead end, one that must be burned to rise like a phoenix from the ashes--but makes no sense from a world-building perspective.

I'd believe it if you told me the Jedi had come to the island to build their temple-monastery-observatory and planted the tree there from elsewhere. But they didn't do that, and it drives me crazy, because it was so easy for them to make it make sense and they didn't bother to think it through.

I think it was Philip Pullman who said, "Never make a metaphor do the work of a fact," when someone asked him about how/if daemons eat. Trying to make functional ecologies out of metaphor is probably a futile task doomed to failure... but some ideas are easier to work with than others and the best settings (in my opinion) exist as both.

I guess we'll put this down as yet another reason nu!canon doesn't work for me.

#star wars #SW meta #WHY DISNEY WHY #ahch-to

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calsyee · 4 years

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I'm feeling spicy today so I'm just gonna lay out my star wars the last jedi opinions:

1) I like that Rian Johnson definitely had a theme he wanted to make clear. Movies that know what they're trying to say make my job easier as a viewer and also allow me to create nuanced critique of them

2) literally the only reason people can legitimately have to hate rose tico is racism and frankly I disavow any supposed TLJ critical person who thinks she was a bad character. In my heart Rose will go on to be best friends with Finn and thats just facts.

3) I don't like that Rian Johnson prioritized his "nothing will go the way you think" theme over consistency with previous characterization, as the choices he made, especially for holdo, luke and poe, didn't work for me.

3a) the conflict between holdo and poe reinforced stereotypes about Latino men and also reinforced the white feminist White Women in Positions of Power = Always Good And Correct When In Conflict With Men trope

3a1) poe's characterization in tlj is pretty poorly handled, as the movie forgets that everything about his character in tfa was pure good hero; he was paralleled with Leia from the jump and his priority was always the good of the resistance and his friends.

3a2) with regard to holdo, everything about her characterization implied that she was shady; making her Not Shady for a twist and to punish poe's valid suspicions of her is unsatisfying as far as twists go, because it's obviously being done to further reinforce Rian's intended theme at the expense of reasonable audience expectation and conventional cinematic language.

3a3) he could have done something really compelling with a conflict between poe and holdo instead of this weak-ass twist by giving us viewers a reason to trust holdo; some insight to her side of the story. This way, as viewers, we understand both why she appears super shady to poe and her new crew, but also why she feels she needs to do what she's doing. But he didn't, and I dont like what he did do.

3b) I just don't get the idea of Luke coming anywhere near murdering his own nephew. Like, this is the man who brought his fascist father back to the light side of the force; it seems incongruous that he'd ever think Ben Solo could be irredeemably bad.

3b1) this also means that Kylo Ren's entire motivation for becoming Kylo Ren — the betrayal of knowing his uncle and Master considered (and very nearly carried out) killing him — feels forced and awkward, which is really bad when the narrative is trying to set up the meat of his redemption arc.

4) I really, really like the twist where Kylo Ren kills Snoke. That was fucking baller as a scene and as a plot choice.

4a) That said, I don't like that JJ took this fact and basically tried to replace Snoke with Palpatine in tros, but that's for another post; I think it would've made more sense for the narrative arc for Kylo to become the big bad

5) I was a Rey Kenobi theory stan so like, I was initially disappointed by the reveal that Rey's parents were, at that point, nobodies, but I've since come round to the idea way more than what they eventually went with in TROS

6) I think the third act was messy as hell both structurally and thematically

7) Luke's transcendence into the force was completely perfect and I have no criticisms.

8) Also Rose & Finn wrecking that casino was fucking inspired and was maybe my favorite sequence of the whole movie

9) Reylo is not to my taste as a ship, so the forced Force connection between them annoyed the hell out of me and still kind of does four years later. It just bothers me to see a hetero romance between a villain and a woman he literally tortured getting used as a lever for his redemption arc; I'm not going to fight people about it though because I'm tired and I think that one sentence basically is my whole argument. I don't like that he hurt her and then got set up as her love interest, and thats all.

10) I think the fighting that still goes on online about whether tlj is A Masterpiece of Blockbuster Cinema or The Worst Movie Ever Made is...misguided at best, as its pretty much neither. Its a movie with some really interesting ideas that I think were implemented super badly, and it suffers from that fact quite a lot in my estimation of it. So i'm always kind of confused to see people making hating or defending it uncritically the centerpiece of their discourse, though I do feel for anyone who really loves the movie because it spoke to them and what they wanted/needed and feels as though the mainstream discourse is Set Against Them as a result. I've been there, as a Batman v Superman stan in 2016-2017, and straight-up, I have the legit trauma & triggers to show for it. Y'all deserve to be able to like a movie that means something important to you.

So yeah those are my spicy takes about star wars the last jedi. I'm not looking to spark any discourse or anything, I just wanted to express my take on the internet.

#.#..#...#....#.....#tlj critical #star wars #a nuanced take on a controversial movie? in this economy?

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dreamerinsilico · 4 years

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the obligatory “I just saw Rise of Skywalker” post

TLDR: My very low expectations were met. I didn’t consider it a waste of two hours.

Spoiler-free overview: It had some genuinely good, often funny banter, and a few character moments and narrative beats I thought were good at least in theory, if not necessary in implementation.

A lot of good actors did their best with a lot of bad writing. Structurally, I thought the way the ending resolved worked, if you accept the premise of the conflict. Unfortunately, the premise of the conflict was ridiculous from so many different angles I was rolling my eyes every few minutes.

JJ Abrams really needs to learn that not every fucking scene needs to be some flavor of highlights reel-worthy bombastic - it cheapens every actual Big Moment when the music and the cinematography and the delivery of the dialogue is trying to communicate “big moment” in every scene.

Spoiler-ridden rambling below the cut:

It speaks to the overall ridiculousness of the film that both my absolute favorite and least favorite things about it are minor details. :P

My favorite: When Our Heroes asked Hux why he turned on the First Order, I stage-whispered to my brother, “Because Kylo Ren is a dick!” right before Hux said almost exactly that. It was just such a perfect “...and we all know I’m that petty” detail, but it also really.... it stood out hardcore to me as an anomaly in the Star Wars saga, being basically the one and only case of one character’s shitty treatment of another having direct, major consequences! There’s plenty of friendship-based loyalty in Star Wars, and obviously a few big turncloak cases (Anakin, Anakin/Vader again, Kylo/Ben) where it was about the person’s loyalty to someone(s) on the other side, but Hux betrays the First Order strictly because Kylo Ren is an asshole and he’s fed up. (Contrary to every other Empire/First Order character who gets abused by a Sith on the regular.) A+, most believable thing in all of Star Wars.

My least favorite: FORCEGHOST!LUKE GAVE REY LEIA’S LIGHTSABER, WHICH WAS GREEN, AND WAS LIKE ‘YOU’LL TAKE BOTH OF THESE TO SITH PLANET’ (yes, good, setting up the eleventh-hour Rey-Ben alliance, symbolically appropriate, I like it) AND THEN WHEN SHE WAS FACING PALPATINE AND BEN WAS COMING TO HELP BOTH THE FUCKING LIGHTSABERS WERE BLUE! IS THIS FINAL-SEASON-OF-GOT-THERE’S-APPARENTLY-STARBUCKS-IN-WESTEROS LEVEL CARELESSNESS, OR DID SOMEONE ACTUALLY THINK THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA FOR SOME UN-FUCKING-FATHOMABLE REASON?!?!?!

*clears throat* Anyway. I may have walked out of the theater ranting about that one.

Okay, next on the docket, the Reylo in the room:

It is not and has never been my ship, but in a big-picture sense I don’t actually hate it, and I definitely don’t hate the way their final scene went down. However, any actual satisfaction I might have taken in their arc is inevitably hamstrung by the fact that Kylo Ren does not, in my opinion, have one good line of dialogue in any movie he’s in, and his characterization has been actively cruel and unsympathetic the whole series, except for a very few moments with Rey, and most of the time with her he’s still being a condescending prick. “I’m going to find you, and I’m going to turn you to the dark side.” My dude. Maybe say literally anything other than that, if your goal is to actually change her mind.

I actually like (*coughs* love, more and more obsessively), on a big-picture level, the whole “bonding with your nemesis” thing, as a trope. But the nemesis needs to have some redeeming qualities other than the ability to look sad and tortured. With better writing in general, and an antagonist with any actual depth/substance, it could have worked, and worked well. As it is, I find I’m not mad at it as a thing, but like... what a damn shame. It could have been great; instead it’s hollow and incredibly under-realized. Incredibly. Even setting aside the fact that the set-up was hamfistedly awful (I’m talking about their interactions in the previous movies and this one, where he spends all his time telling her what she Has To Do, Inevitably, and she spends all her time telling him to fuck off), shouldn’t she... have some kind of reaction to his death? Like, any reaction? Contemplation after the fact? Acknowledgement that someone she had a Force connection to so strong they could communicate telepathically wherever they were is now dead? But no, we’re cutting to triumphant music and the Resistance winning and Rey’s back in the X-wing and Ben Solo will not be mentioned again.

All of it is so damn hollow I’m peripherally kind of amazed at how riled up people seem to have gotten about it. I just can’t summon an emotion stronger than exasperation.

I can summon an emotion stronger than exasperation for the way the script played Finn’s implied romantic love for Rey for laughs. Finn Deserved Better; Disney is Terrible. I’m so glad John Boyega is apparently telling them to piss off regarding future opportunities for him to be disrespected.

<333 Poe and Finn’s “bickering married couple” dynamic, which apparently both actors have been intentionally playing up to the extent that they were able.

Rey’s internal conflict, while beautifully acted by Daisy Ridley, did not make any damn sense, just like it didn’t make sense in TLJ. Of course I get that one of the central themes is birth versus who you choose to be, but like.... she’s never once done anything that should make her or anyone else worry that she’s going to suddenly become a megalomaniacal Sith Lord. As my brother pointed out, if they’d actually had her accidentally kill Chewie, as we were very briefly lead to believe, that might have lent it some credence. But as it stands, her fear of herself just feels... completely inappropriate and unreasonable, given that aside from a few short outbursts that had no lasting consequences, she’s never deviated from the compassionate, generous person everyone except Kylo Ren (and Luke, I guess, in parts of TLJ) knows her to be.

I could spend another few thousand words talking about how nothing about Palpatine being Back or the Final Order existing and having planet-cracking weapons on every one of their enormous fleet out in a hidden system no one knows how to get to makes no fucking sense, but let’s just... leave it at that. I’d rather not.

It was a typical Disney conglomerate soulless cash-grab that had some entertaining bits, and some bits that could have been fantastic had anyone with power actually cared about telling a cohesive story rather than relying almost entirely on dramatic music and the actors’ facial expressions to make people feel things.

(PS: Where the heck did that yellow lightsaber come from?)

#star wars #the rise of skywalker #rise of skywalker spoilers #movies #rise of skywalker

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noddytheornithopod · 4 years

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Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker - Initial Thoughts

So yeah, this is a thing. Of course I’m gonna discuss spoilers in-depth, but I’ll put that under the cut. If you want a spoiler free summary, here:

It's not perfect, and I particularly struggled with the first act and it's really fast pacing (JJ LEARN TO SLOW DOWN), but I'm not gonna pretend I didn't enjoy it overall. As long as you're not attached to certain specific ideas and willing to accept it for what it is, you might like it well enough. That being said, I can already see this is gonna be at least as divisive as TLJ unfortunately.

Okay, first thing’s out of the way: I was aware of the leaks about the film, and I can confirm that they were pretty spot on overall. It sucks 99% of the plot got out, there’s a few moments that thankfully didn’t get mentioned in any leaks I saw, so yeah. Anyway, time to get started.

Okay, yeah, the pacing. Definitely my biggest issue with the film. It’s an issue I have with The Force Awakens’ first act too, but there it at least was able to do enough to establish the characters. Here the story moves along relentlessly. Honestly, for the first act, in fact right until Rey and Kylo Ren’s Kijimi confrontation, I struggled to keep up. So much happened, so much exposition and action I felt like nothing really got to land. There wasn’t any time to breathe or let the characters have more moments. I’m not sure if the Rey/Kylo fight on Kijimi was just a major emotional turning point that finally had me properly hooked, but from there either I finally got into the film’s groove or it actually learned to slow down a bit, at least enough for things to actually land instead of BAM NEW SCENE BAM NEW SCENE.

My other biggest issue with the film is something that unfortunately couldn’t be helped: the handling of Leia. It’s VERY clear they were writing around the cut scenes from The Force Awakens, and how vague and generic her lines were REALLY showed. Because of this, her death scene didn’t really work for me? In fact, I’m not even sure why she chose to reach out to Kylo Ren at that specific point, either it was Force shenanigans feeling it was the right time SOMEHOW knowing he was at a vulnerable point or I really missed something (see this is why you don’t pace things at the speed of light, JJ :V). THAT BEING SAID... I can’t really fault the filmmakers for this, because this is obviously the best they could’ve done without a controversial recasting (especially if they used CGI to make the new actress look like Carrie Fisher). It’s clear this was a really hard job, and I can tell they did the best with what they had.

I mentioned the first act was too fast paced, but I actually really dug the opening with Kylo Ren. Palpatine obviously sensed the First Order had subjugated the galaxy, so it was time for him to come out and reassert control with his secret Sith Fleet, hence the message in the crawl. But yeah, Kylo Ren finding the wayfinder and traveling to Exegol only to discover Palpatine was an excellent sequence that really got things getting exciting.

For specific things here: first, Exegol is an awesome planet. It’s perfectly creepy and the best place for the final showdown to take place. The sound design for the place was particularly great. Visually, it’s all epic. I’m also curious about its history - C-3PO says it’s apparently a Sith Homeworld, though I wonder if this is more like an origin point given Moraband was also a Sith Homeworld. Oh look, I’m being a nerd, lol.

I love how Snoke was handled purely because it’s so hilariously anticlimatic and I can see so many people getting mad at it. Like seriously... Palpatine so casually going “I made Snoke” says SO much. Everyone was making up elaborate theories on who he was and why he’s a thing but in reality, he’s just some dude created in a lab for Palpatine to puppet while he’s gone. :P One has to wonder how Snoke felt about the whole thing, literally being made just to be an interim ruler for former Imperials before Palpatine was ready to return, while also being a powerful Dark Side user himself (wow geez, Palpatine can make super Dark Side users now).

Palpatine himself was definitely one of the best parts of the movie, Ian McDiarmid’s performance alone was worth it. I definitely get why JJ chose to bring him back, I agree it feels appropriate for the main Star Wars villain to have a presence in the new trilogy in some way. For how he comes back, it’s curious. The way he speaks and looks, he’s pretty much dead, Palpatine literally says he died in fact. As for how he’s back, he just says his infamous “the Dark Side is a pathway to many abilities, some to be considered unnatural.” Look, it’s SO on the nose and cheesy, but because I’m a nerd I loved hearing that line again. From how I understand it, he’s basically a weird Dark Side zombie, I mean he has a downright undead appearance. It’s not actually explained how he survived, but I kinda don’t mind that it’s currently mysterious? I have some theories based on EU stuff I might go into later but basically, he’s now Zombietine and he’s somehow ended up on Exegol with his weird Sith cult devotees making Snokes and building the Sith Fleet while influencing what he can from afar. Speaking of which... his “I’m every voice you have ever known” line pretty much confirms it was HIM who was talking to him through Darth Vader’s helmet, not a remnant of Vader himself. Him using Snoke’s voice in that line even makes me wonder how much free will Snoke has, and whether him being a puppet is more literal than we think.

Leia like I said I felt despite doing the best they could it didn’t fully work, but I can see how Leia would’ve tried being a Jedi but decided not to follow through with it. I mean, ghost Luke couldn’t always show up, so Rey would need advice from the closest thing to a remaining Jedi.

Pasana was hectic. Given a lot of the first act was there, that and the Resistance scenes on Ajan Kloss were most of what really rushed. Like, you have potential great moments, but the fast pace means the story needs to move on so nothing can land. There’s attempts at character moments but they don’t have time to breathe. Like, even Lando returning just whisked by because of the pacing.

Lando was good I guess. Not much stuff for him, but what we had was cool I guess. It sounds like he was hunting for a wayfinder with Luke, though I guess one wonder why Luke was looking for Exegol? Was this after he confronted Snoke (see the new Kylo Ren comic, that confirms that was a thing that happened, oh look more nerdy shit only I care about) and was looking for answers on what Snoke was up to, did he just want to make sure the Dark Side wasn’t fucking things up, or was he feeling like something was off? Anyway, Lando: obviously he’s a minor character, but him bringing all the ships at the end was cool.

Much of the stuff on Kijimi was pretty fast up until the lighsabre duel of course, so there was issues there too. Zorri’s introduction sped by so it never really landed, she goes from “maybe I’ll turn you over” to “fine I’ll help” VERY fast. Same with C-3PO’s memory wipe scene - the story does finally start to steady a bit and it did have me feeling things, but it still goes by too fast for it to fully land. Poe and Zorri’s one on one was a bit better, though again Zorri changing her heart so fast doesn’t really work for me.

Thinking about it, I did like Poe’s arc in the movie well enough. It could’ve been smoothed out but I did like how even he was struggling with the forces they were up against, and learned to have hope even in this dire situation. That’s why I like the chat with Zorri - even if her character feels rushed, it did establish Poe’s central arc and we see how that plays out.

Finn I feel like doesn’t have much of an arc here? Like, I know his storyline in The Last Jedi was divisive, but at least he did have a major arc there and had major growth. Here, I guess his arc is concluded, but then he’s just kinda along with the crew? I really liked the scene where he met Jannah and discovered more First Order deserters, but unfortunately that didn’t really end up going anywhere. Finn and Jannah are a cool duo, but in the climactic battle they kinda felt like an afterthought? I mean, even Poe and the ship stuff kinda did, but at least I kinda got what was going on there. With Finn and Jannah it’s just “we’re on Pryde’s Star Destroyer, destroy some shit” and... that’s it? Probably the most interesting thing with Finn in the movie was how open he was to the Force. Like obviously he couldn’t sense it, but he definitely believes in and trusts it, and it makes sense how that helps a lot of decisions he makes, especially after befriending Rey.

Jannah was cool but like I said she doesn’t really get much to do. I think what people will mainly focus on is that final scene with Lando, which was TOTALLY not suggesting Lando’s her dad. It’s a shame, because the First Order deserter stuff could’ve lead to some cool stuff, but I can see the film probably couldn’t fit it in with how much it’s trying to do.

Rose was an afterthought. I didn’t expect her to be in it much so I prepped myself for that, but I was at least happy to see she was still around. :) I wonder about how Finn looked at her at the end though, was that supposed to suggest romantic feelings? Kinda funny given they drop the Finn wanting to tell Rey something plotline, which I suspect was meant to imply romantic feelings?

On the topic of romance, Poe and Zorri, meh. And to literally nobody’s surprise, the queer couple we see is two Resistance women having a kiss at the end. At least one is a character that kinda exists, even if I don’t even know her name and just know she’s important enough to be sooorta recognisable given she was in The Last Jedi? It’s pretty anticlimactic, but nobody was expecting the representation to be significant anyway. :P Still better than Endgame from the sounds of it though.

Okay, I wanna discuss Hux. His role is small, but he’s as pathetic as ever and it’s glorious. So one plot point is that there’s a spy feeding intel to the Resistance, and then when Finn, Poe and Chewbacca are captured on the Star Destroyer above Kijimi we discover... Hux is the spy. He didn’t even have a change of heart and turned good, he simply just hates Kylo Ren. :P Like damn, helping the enemy purely out of spite, that’s something alright. And as soon as the heroes escape, Pryde just knows instantly he’s the spy and shoots him without a second thought. Yep, that’s how Hux goes out. Pryde is just there to be the evil military leader of course, and he works in that part.

Rey definitely was a major force in carrying the film, like of course she is given she’s the central protagonist but her story just holds up the best for me. Probably one of my favourite things about it was that we finally got to properly explore the Dark Side in her, and of course that becomes a big part of her story here. It’s something we’ve seen in the past two films, but here it actually becomes a focus.

Okay, let’s talk about Rey’s family. Specifically, how she’s Palpatine’s granddaughter. I’m sure some people who are VERY attached to the “nobody” thing in The Last Jedi will dislike this no matter what, but I still think it works? I will however say that it’s VERY cheeky how they go “oh your PARENTS are nobodies, but your GRANDFATHER IS A BIG DEAL AND YOUR DAD JUST CHOSE TO FUCK OFF”. Weird cheekiness aside, I guess I don’t mind the reveal because for one, Star Wars is a family saga, so I see how this works into things, plus it helps justify Palpatine’s return? But perhaps more importantly, I think the film still honours the ideas from The Last Jedi in a way - yes, Rey may have found she has a major lineage after all, but said lineage comes from the most evil man in the Universe. However, her ancestry doesn’t define her, her family isn’t important, who SHE chooses to be is. Luke outright says blood isn’t everything. Luke and Leia figured out she was somehow a Palpatine descendant, but accepted her anyway because they saw her potential for good. I will say I hoped the nobody thing stuck to being literally myself, but this is a nice compromise that I can work with and has a nice message to it. Also, I should emphasise this: just because this changes how we might see The Last Jedi, it doesn’t mean that what the film explores and says is meaningless. In fact, I think the film goes out of its way to make sure it still matters even if JJ obviously had his own ideas on where to take the story. Whether she’s nobody or connected to someone significant, Rey’s destiny is her own to forge and its still about her, not who she’s connected to.

There’s also this Ochi dude who was around doing work for Palpatine while he was around, and he killed Rey’s parents. Kylo initially assumed he wanted to kill Rey, but in reality Ochi was meant to bring Rey to Palpatine early.

Luke’s appearances were cool. I’m sure some people who love TLJ and dislike this film might cynically take his “a Jedi’s weapon deserves more respect line” as a diss against TLJ, but you have to remember: TLJ was literally about Luke finding hope and something to believe in again. Of course he’d get over his cynicism, everything he said about the Jedi was right, but TLJ’s point is that instead of just burying everything wrong with the past, we learn from its failures and take what’s still good to form something better. That’s what Rey’s meant to do with the Jedi. And I mean, the reason him catching the lightsabre Rey throws works at all is because of the surprising moment where he tosses it away in TLJ.

So, Kylo Ren. I enjoyed his storyline. Like, even when he discovers Palpatine and is made to serve him, he’s already secretly hoping to get Rey on his side for them to take him out and rule together (presumably as the new Sith Lords?). He’s pretty brutal and evil in a lot of the film. Also... I LOVE how they expanded on the Force connections. I love me some freaky World Between Worlds style space bending shit. Like, they even fight even though they’re on different locations. As for the mask, I’m sure someone has a better read on it but I think with Palpatine back and being made to be subservient to another master, he puts it together to seem more intimidating again even though the cracks show the facade (the cracks are based on Kintsugi, a Japanese art or craft where repaired things have the lines of where they were broken visible to emphasise how things have changed since they were broken... someone can explain it better but yeah). With the Force Dyad, I have to wonder: is it something Snoke specifically created when he bridged their minds and left that connection to fester (as we see it still is there after all given what happens here), or was it something the Force always had with them?

So, the big scene on the Endor moon with Kylo Ren (I assume Kef Bir if it’s really called that is a different moon to the forest one from Return of the Jedi). Rey’s already struggling with the darkness after the vision of her dark self, but she goes pretty dark during her fight. She strikes Kylo down in a moment he doesn’t fight back, and said moment was him sensing Leia’s passing. Like I said, I don’t feel like her death was handled that well, though it could just be circumstance with Carrie Fisher’s passing. It’s oddly meta as well - she seemed to know reaching out to her son would kill her but did it because she believed it would save him. So she kinda fridged... herself???? It’s weird, I’m not sure how to feel about it. Is it really worth dying just for your son who’s running what will become a new Empire? And if she was dying already, they didn’t establish it at all. It just happens out of nowhere. And I mean, at least it works, Kylo Ren still has some heart left and feels sad about his mum, and then we get... Han Solo. They do say it’s a memory, but I wonder if this was Force induced. Even if the Leia stuff doesn’t work for me, I still liked the scene with imaginary Han. It’s very on the nose with its parallels to TFA, but it still works I think. Also let’s be real... Kylo Ren deciding to stop being a space fascist just because his mum died, that’s not exactly the kind of person I would still feel safe around lol.

If Kylo Ren has an actual redemptive moment, it comes later. Honestly, him showing up in the final battle to help Rey against Palpatine was pretty cool. Like I said, he’s only really doing this because mum dying made him sad, but hey at least he’s fighting the bad guys, right? Yeah, I’m sure you can tell I’m not the biggest Kylo Ren fan. I just feel like his internal conflict isn’t that compelling compared to what Anakin went through, who is much easier to empathise with, not to mention Kylo Ren is honestly pure redemption bait compared to Vader, who didn’t even have plans on redemption until he was made Luke’s father, lol. But rambling aside, his stuff in the climax was awesome. Rey giving now Ben Solo the Skywalker lightsabre through their Force connection was one of the coolest moments of the movie, and bam he just wrecks the Knights of Ren the moment he gets a new sabre (after throwing his own one away).

Palpatine in the climax is curious, because I’m not actually sure what his ultimate goal was: was it to be killed off for good by Rey, or did he always count on Ben/Kylo to show up to get the Force Dyad in place to drain their life force to rejuvenate himself? I mean, he seemed to find Leia’s sacrifice incredibly unexpected in how it made Kylo turn away from the Dark Side, so it seems like he was ready to be killed, though TBH it actually sounds like he very well could’ve possessed her. I actually want to know what this whole Sith thing is about. He says that all the Sith that have ever lived live on through him, which I guess is something that started with the Rule of Two given it follows that philosophy. The apprentice kills their master, but their master and all subsequent masters have what’s left of them transferred into them. It’s an eerie way Darth Bane can still be around for the day the Sith rule the galaxy. Still, I have to wonder how it works. For someone like Rey who wasn’t an actual Sith, it sounds like all the Sith souls would’ve corrupted her, or Palpatine would outright possess her. I know most people don’t care about this nerdy stuff, but I do so lol. This whole Sith souls thing is intriguing and I look forward to EU stuff exploring it more. I want to know if it’s like Rey and her reaching out for the Jedi souls, or the Sith literally all pile up into this monstrosity and the master becomes a single entity.

Anyway yeah, Palpatine drains Rey and Ben to rejuvenate himself so he can live again. This is the exact kind of creepy Dark Side stuff I’m here for. Ben tries to stop him, but he’s thrown down a chasm. Sheev immobilises the entire Resistance fleet, but Rey is able to draw in his attention, and when she uses both the Skywalker and Leia’s lightsabres she calls on the souls of past Jedi to give her the power to defeat Palpatine (something foreshadowed at the start where she tries to reach voices of past Jedi). So there’s lots of juicy cameos for sharp eared listeners. First, we hear Obi-Wan saying a homage to his TFA line, but with final instead of first steps. We hear LOTS of Jedi, but I was just happy we heard Anakin. I would’ve liked him to have a bigger appearance, sure, but I’m happy he existed at all. He says something like “bring balance again, just as I did”, which is pretty cool, and further cements Anakin as The Chosen One. It’s just Sheev refusing to stay truly dead caused another fuckup that Rey needed to solve. This arguably could change how one reads the Chosen One prophecy, but it still works with it being Anakin. Rey is stopping the Sith from being revived because as I said, Palpatine is basically a zombie and arguably not even really alive. I’m sure one could argue it’s changed, and Yoda DID say the prophecy could’ve been misread, but I’m sure it might feed interesting discussions... I just hope they’re not shitty toxic ones like we always get. For me, the coolest moment was when it concluded with QUI-GON JINN. You know, the Jedi who started it all. Look, Jedi voices is obviously fanservice, but this is fanservice I eat up like the hopeless nerd I am. :V We also heard non-movie Jedi like Kanan (I got so excited when I saw him in the credits I had to explain to the guy next to me my outburst lol), and it seems even ex-Jedi like Ahsoka were included. Given these are Jedi who are supposed to have passed on into the Cosmic Force, I have to say this doesn’t look good for Ahsoka. Not sure if Ezra was in there either, but if he was, then welp indeed. I’m officially worried for them, and whatever evil plans Dave Filoni has for them.

So yeah Rey beats Sheev, but it takes the life out of her to do so. BUT WAIT... BEN SOLO LIVES. Well, for now. Not gonna lie, I got excited when I saw him climb out of that chasm, I was like YEAH GO SAVE REY MAN. I literally heard someone cheer when he climbed out too. Rey of course did the Force healing thing on him before (and earlier on a serpent creature), but to bring her back Ben uses that same ability at the cost of his own life. But before he dies... Rey kisses him. Okay Reylos, you win. Not gonna lie though... I actually didn’t mind that moment? *raises internet hate mob shields* Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suddenly a Reylo convert so no need to cancel me or whatever you guys do, but for what it was, I didn’t mind it? Ben comes back knowing he’s going to probably die saving Rey, but does it anyway. When I said I feel like his true redemptive moment comes later than moping about Leia, this is what I meant. Before, he joined Rey to not betray his mother’s ideals and because of his connection with her. But now, he knows he’s a goner but wants her to live so he sacrifices his life to revive her. Like, this is a proper selfless act. He probably thinks she deserves to live more than he does after the shit he’s put everyone though anyway. It also averted my biggest concern with the Reylo thing - I was worried that it would end up making Rey’s story about saving Ben Solo like all the fan theories wanted, but here it was still firmly Rey’s story. If anything, Ben came to serve her story by letting her live on lol. So yeah, Reylo happened for like a minute... I somehow expect BOTH sides of the debate to be angry. The hardcore Reylos and “Bendemption” people will be upset because Ben dies, but the anti-Reylo people will hate it because Reylo happens at all, even for a second. And here I am, who’s just here like “that was a nice sweet moment plus yeah I want Rey to live over Ben lol”.

Okay, I should say that the whole climax got me smiling. From all the ships across the galaxy arriving to help to Rey getting power from past Jedi, to them melting away Palpatine (yeah he’s not surviving literal disintegration from force lighting deflected with the help of dead Jedi lol), to them taking out the Sith Fleet and everyone celebrating, it just was happy and more importantly, hopeful. Look, I get why people might not be into this movie, but I was genuinely giddy during this climax of not just a film or trilogy, but a now nine part saga (and yes it’s definitely staying as a nine part Skywalker Saga after Ben died, Rey only takes the name to honour the past). It really did feel like a big epic finale. Sure, like I said some of the stuff in the battle could’ve been fleshed out more, but the dumb nerd part of me enjoyed the epicness of it and its climax anyway.

The final scene was nice I guess. Rey finding an identity for herself she feels secure in, and the Luke and Leia ghosts was nice. Also the yellow lightsabre’s first film appearance signalling something new to come.

D-O was there I guess. Didn’t focus much on him and BB-8. C-3PO of course had a fair bit going on and his memory wipe did have some emotional impact even if we recover quickly because FAST PACE. R2 had some nice moments, I felt bad for him when 3PO didn’t recognise him actually, though of course R2 backs up whatever memories he has left of him (IDK what memories R2 had though). I wonder why C-3PO had a thing in his memory blocking him from translating Sith runes though.

Yeah, okay, there were a few fanservicey moments, I already mentioned some of course. Some felt like natural parallels but just with JJ’s lack of subtlety, there were a few that felt on the nose, but many were genuinely fun. Since it’s not just Return of the Jedi 2.0 but a new story that still has a few parallels (naturally, I need to dig for the ROTS and Phantom Menace ones next), it doesn’t feel as in your face as The Force Awakens which called back to so much of A New Hope and the Original Trilogy. But I mean, stuff like the Wedge cameo was cool (though ouch his son in law is dead, JJ killed off one of his best friends in Snap Wexley lol). IDK what the Tantive IV is back, but hey I can work with it. Since it’s capping off the whole saga, it calls back to all three trilogies and doesn’t hyperfocus on just one so it feels less over the top, to me anyway (or maybe my Prequel bias is showing lol).

So yeah... definitely not a perfect film, with a pretty rough first act, but I don’t think it’s a disaster like some people see it as. Could some things have been handled better? Definitely. Would I have preferred George Lucas’ ideas for the Sequel Trilogy instead despite them probably having less popular appeal? Yeah, I’m a weirdo, I know. But look, I went into this film simply wanting to enjoy it for what it was. And for what it was, I’d say it was mostly good. Sure, there’s rough patches, but the good parts are really good.

#sw spoilers #star wars spoilers #star wars #episode ix #episode 9 #the rise of skywalker #sequel trilogy #skywalker saga

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alpha-centari27 · 4 years

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The Thoughts and Reflections of Someone New to Reylo and the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy

This is a really, really long post and contains spoilers.

Please be polite and respectful if you choose to comment and / or reblog.

Ok, so before I get too heavy discussing my thoughts and reflections there are a few things I want to make absolutely clear.

- People can ship whoever they want. And it is perfectly fine for people to disagree and have differing tastes and opinions. Obviously some ships are better supported by canon than others. And there are shipping relationships that are toxic, but people ship it anyway. I think a great non-Star Wars example is Harley Quinn and Joker.

- I have delved deep enough into the reylo tag and other related tags to get the sense that anti-reylo are claiming a moral high ground. “As a ship reylo is wrong and therefore anyone who ships reylo is a horrible person.” And my simple rebuttal to this is--no, that’s not how this works. If someone ships reylo this by itself is not sufficient evidence that someone is a horrible person.

- Based on everything I have read about TROS Ben Solo’s story arc and character development could have been so much more than what it was on screen in TROS.

- Having said that a lot of other characters were short changed by whoever was pulling the strings and making the decisions: Rose Tico, Poe Dameron, Finn and Rey and arguably Leia, Luke and Han were short changed by some of the decisions made in TROS and earlier in TLJ and TFA.

- Being part of a fandom should be fun, so can we all agree to chill out, relax and be civil?

Moving on...now that hopefully I have cleared up any preconceived assumptions.

I am relatively new to reylo and the sequel trilogies.

The first time I watched The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi was only a few weeks ago. Some of the cable channels have been doing Star Wars marathons to get people pumped and nostalgic to pay for a movie ticket to The Rise of Skywalker.

One of the cable channels was doing yet another Star Wars marathon last night, so I again sat down to watch The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, but this time I watched the films with more awareness of the various critiques, criticisms and elements that have been deemed problematic.

I also went to the trouble of jotting down some notes.

This post is kinda all over the place, but I am going to go over my notes and observations and a main topic I want to look at is:

How Rey’s relationships and interactions with Finn and Kylo Ren differ and what sort of implications does this have.

Since stepping my toe into the reylo tags and other related tags I have NOT been able to fully articulate where I stand on whether reylo is toxic, Kylo Ren / Ben Solo is abusive, whether Kylo Ren / Ben Solo is worthy of redemption and to what degree Kylo / Ben being abused and manipulated excuses his actions.

I have to confess that the more parallels and similarities I see between Kylo Ren and Anakin / Darth Vader the more uneasy I feel about shipping reylo.

Regardless of my opinion people are free to do what they want. If shipping reylo makes you happy, who am I too badger you into doing otherwise?

Me, writing out this long post is an attempt to flush out my thoughts at the present.

Watching the movies again I was struck by how different Rey’s interactions were with Finn and Kylo Ren. There is a sequence in The Force Awakens between Rey and Finn that reminds me of the throne room sequence between Kylo Ren and Rey when Kylo offers his hand and asks her to rule beside him. ((Please pardon me for paraphrasing and not having all the lines of dialogue memorized.))

Rey and Finn

At Maz’s place when Han, Rey and Finn are trying to arrange transport for BB8 to the resistance and / or get another ship to avoid detection by the First Order.

Maz looks into Finn’s eyes and remarks that he looks like someone who wants to run away. Maz tells Finn that there is a way out. That there are some beings that will arrange transit to the outer rim and exchange for work.

Finn approaches the beings and tells them not to leave without him.

Rey is frustrated by this. How can he just leave? What about BB8? What about the resistance? I believe this is when Finn comes clean that he is not actually with the resistance. That he is a stormtrooper and he is not going back to the First Order and wants to stay as far away from them as possible.

Finn asks Rey to come with him. To join him. Rey says no. And I believe Finn tells Rey to take care of herself.

There are no hurt feelings on Finn’s part. He doesn’t try to persuade or manipulate her to change her mind. He simply wishes that she takes care of herself.

Here are a few other bullet point items I want to highlight.

- Kylo Ren force pushing Rey into a tree and Finn coming to her aid and kneeling beside her reminds me of Anakin choking out Padme on Mustafar and Obi-Wan Kenobi going to Padme.

- Finn’s main motivation for going to Starkiller base was to rescue Rey.

- Rey clutches & hugs an unconscious Finn who fought and lost to Kylo Ren.

- After Starkiller base is blown up and Rey, Finn and Chewbacca are in transit. Rey plants a kiss on Finn’s forehead as he lies unconscious.

- When Finn wakes up in The Last Jedi the first thing he says is, “Where is Rey?“

- Finn’s motivation for trying to get away in an escape pod is basically keep Rey safe. Finn thinks the fleet is doomed. If Finn can to an escape pod and reach safety, Rey will be able to find him and she will be safe.

- I want to say that there is another time that Rey hugs Finn. Maybe this is when Han, Finn and Rey first find each other on Starkiller?

Finn is not a perfect person. He does lie to Rey about being part of the resistance. In terms of being an honorable, moral and ethical person I think it is quite clear Finn is a better person than Kylo Ren / Ben Solo.

But in real life and in fiction people can be attracted to and fall in love with horrible people. ((I suppose right here my own words are a damning statement against reylo.))

Some observations I made from watching The Last Jedi

- When Kylo Ren and Rey have their first force skype call. Kylo’s first reaction is confusion. And his second reaction is to reach out with the force to try to manipulate Rey to bring Luke Skywalker to him.

- When Rey pushes Kylo Ren to explain why he killed his father, Han Solo--I find it curious that Kylo deflects the question and starts talking about Rey’s parents and how they threw her away. Given the plot twist in TROS this now makes Kylo look like a manipulator and a liar. In the best case scenario Kylo was telling a version of the truth that is incomplete. I suppose in a way Kylo does indirectly answer Rey’s question by saying, “Let the past die. Kill it if you have to. That’s the only way to become what you are meant to be.“ This could be read as manipulative and an attempt to push Rey to the dark side by killing Luke.

- I’m still not sure what to make of the 2nd force bond scene. The connection is terminated and Kylo Ren is wiping his face with a gloved hand and we see...water? Kylo Ren’s tears on his glove? There is a wave of water crashing against some rocks in front of Rey just before Kylo is seen wiping his face.

- When an unconscious Kylo Ren wakes up in the throne room. It is just Kylo Ren and Hux. It’s quick, but it looks like Hux reaches into his coat to draw a weapon and shoot Kylo Ren.

- What did Rey tell Chewbacca to tell Finn? I’m sure someone knows, but I just need to do some more digging online.

- Kylo Ren vs Luke Skywalker. Near the very end of the fight Kylo Ren says, “I’ll destroy her [Rey] and you and all of it.“

- Overall I’m just surprised how often Rey is brought to tears throughout these movies. It’s understandable because of what she is going through and what she has been through. Someone must have counted how many times Rey cries and how many times it was with X or Y character and what they were talking about.

Rey and Kylo Ren: The Throne Room

Ok, so let’s sum up the events leading up to Kylo Ren’s proposal.

Rey is brought before Snoke who tortures her for information about Skywalker.

When Snoke gets the information he wants AND it becomes clear that Rey is a true Jedi who will not serve him, Snoke then orders Kylo Ren to kill Rey.

Kylo Ren spares Rey and kills Snoke.

Kylo Ren and Rey fight off the guards together.

Kylo gives his speech about letting old things die. What stands out to me is Kylo does NOT specifically mention the First Order. Snoke, Luke Skywalker, the Sith, the Jedi, the resistance all need to die, but not the First Order.

Rey pleads with Ben not to do this. Not to go down this path. Which is reminiscent of what Padme said to Anakin on Mustafar.

Kylo / Ben says, “You’re still holding on! Let go!” ((Holding onto what exactly? The resistance? Hope? The Jedi path? The light side of the force?)) And once again Kylo / Ben talks about Rey’s parentage.

“You’re nothing, but not to me. Please.” For a while I have interpreted this as Kylo Ren / Ben Solo being honest and blunt to a fault, but seeing and listening to this again in it’s full context this does read as Kylo Ren being manipulative. Breaking Rey down, she comes from nothing, she is nothing, she has no place in this, but hey why don’t you join me and have a seat right next to me on the winning side.

Final Thoughts:

- At the very least Kylo Ren’s conduct and behavior are red flags. Regardless of the extent that Kylo Ren was manipulated and abused his behavior and his interactions with Rey in the TFA and TLJ are troubling to say the least. There does come a point when someone cannot use the excuse of being abused to justify their abusive behavior. “Ok, so you were abused and learned some bad habits and coping mechanisms, but here is the thing your actions are causing real harm to another person and that is not cool.” It’s hard and it’s difficult to change those habits and people will slip up on the road to recovery. I think we also need to recognize the complication that Rey and Kylo Ren are at war on opposite sides.

- I think there was descent chemistry and a connection between Rey and Finn, but I feel like that gets de-railed at the end of TLJ when Finn is tending to Rose and Rey is interacting with Leia.

- I think Rey and Finn is a lot less problematic than Rey and Kylo Ren / Ben Solo. Just compare the throne room scene to the interaction between Finn and Rey at Maz’s place.

- Do I still ship reylo? Here is how I will answer the question for now. As flawed as Kylo Ren / Ben Solo is I do like him and find him to be a character I can relate to alongside Rey. I have not seen TROS in theaters and don’t think I will waste my money going to see it.

I would have LOVED to see a happy ending for Ben Solo instead of a variant of Darth Vader’s redemption and death. This has already been done, why not do something different? Isn’t this ending more hopeful? You know instead of Han, Luke, Leia dying in vain to save Ben.

I would have LOVED if the people making TROS put more careful thought and consideration into Ben’s story arc and character development.

Fitting with the theme of: finding the balance, not everything is black and white, there are a lot of grey areas / ambiguity, etc.

I would have been fine with some sort of ending where Ben faces some sort of punishment for his crimes and he is neither condemned to death or is completely pardoned without consequences.

I am very curious to know what political scientists and psychologists would say about sentencing someone like Kylo Ren / Ben Solo for war crimes. In the comics that have been released so far it seems like Ben Solo is much younger when he is turned to the dark side and taken in by the First Order. I think in TROS it’s revealed that Ben’s current age is 30 and he was 23 when he joined Snoke and the First Order. At age 23 Ben Solo is considered an adult, he is not a child soldier. “But he was being manipulated before he was even born.“ I hear you...unfortunately I don’t know how or if that would factor into Ben Solo’s being charged with war crimes.

Right now, I am in favor of ignoring the mess that is TROS and replacing it with fanfiction where Rey and Ben Solo are able to live a health and happy life. And perhaps some day they will rebuild a new Jedi order that strives to accept and learn from the mistakes of the past.

- Is Kylo Ren / Ben Solo worthy of redemption? I think in order to answer this question we need to ask, what does it mean to be redeemed? What does someone have to do in order to be redeemed or atone for their wrong doing?

I think the short answer is it’s complicated and everyone has different opinions. Some people are probably of the opinion that Kylo Ren / Ben Solo is beyond redemption. There is nothing he can do. He can never do enough to make up for what he has done.

I think the more complicated answer is it’s a long process and not everyone will forgive you--heck maybe no one will forgive you.

And whether you are punished or not punished is an entirely different matter.

There are things Kylo Ren / Ben Solo has done that he can never take back. Kylo Ren cannot bring Han Solo back from the dead or any of the hundreds or thousands of people he has cut down. The fact Kylo Ren has murdered even one person is probably reason enough in the eyes of some people for why he can never be redeemed.

Kylo Ren / Ben Solo turned toward the light and toward Rey. In my opinion I think this action could be considered an act of repentance, but falls short of redeeming / atoning for all his past sins. I think full redemption / atonement is a much more lengthier process.

Ultimately, I think this is a question worth pondering for ourselves.

#reylo #the force awakens #the last jedi #the rise of skywalker #ben solo #kylo ren #rey #rose tico #poe dameron #finn

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lilyfromfrogzcountry · 4 years

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Saw TROS - spoilers ahead, don’t read if you don’t want to be spoiled

I need to get some things off my chest to sort out my feelings about this movie :)

It wasn’t as /bad/ as I expected. Let’s say I didn’t get bored. However, there was a lot of stuff I found weird, dumb or that didn’t make sense to me. A lot of things seemed rushed and like last minute additions, which spoiled a bit my enjoyment of this movie. So here’s a little summary of what I liked and didn’t like.

((Before reading, please be aware that i’m a hux fan and a multishipper (reylo included). If this bothers you, please avoid reading this post, since this will probably influence my perception of the movie))

⛔⛔ SPOILERS JUST BELOW - BE WARNED ⛔⛔

What I liked :

Finn finding other stormtroopers having defected (a whole battalion, even), and realizing that he’s not alone. Even if it was to be expected, Finn was always presented as an exception in the story. This shows us the First Order’s stormtrooper program isn’t as efficient in its brainwashing as they claim to be.

Hux being a spy for the Resistance. I know some Hux fans may not have liked it, but I personally found it to be an interesting development in his character. It’s not everyday that a high ranking officer, who’s been a ‘true believer’ in the cause his whole life, changes side like that. I wish it would have been explored more deeply and seriously. Too bad it felt like a last minute addition.

This idea that “some things are stronger than blood”. Rey’s ancestry doesn’t matter, doesn’t influence her destiny. Light side or Dark: what matters is who she chooses to be.

CGI young Luke and Leia flashback (I’m really a fan of this CGI way of bringing back younger versions of actors, the result is always quite realistic imo).

This cute and polite new little robot, D-0 . So sad to learn it was abused by its former master :’(

Kylo’s clothes changing when turning back to the Light. Bye bye black menacing attire and long cape, hello simple shirt and pants. Even if I loved his former look, I quite liked this one as well, it made him appear more “human”. Also, damn, I really found Kylo to be a treat in this movie, he looked so good!

Rey always making a difference between Ben and Kylo Ren : she makes it clear that what interest her is Ben, ie. the Light side of him. It is only after he turns back to the Light for good, after he becomes Ben again, that he earns her trust and love.

Rey lethaly wounding Kylo, then healing him. Because it really seems to be the thing that shook this boy’s soul and made him turn back to the Light (it’s a big part of why, at least). Also, I’m always a sucker for nice characters showing compassion towards villains.

That reylo kiss tho. I know this is a very controversial ship, but since TFA, I was personally certain something deep was going to happen between those 2. I’m glad it was a cute, sweet and hopeful kiss, right after Kylo saved Rey no less. We even get some Ben Smile™. I really wish the movie would have ended here and there, on this hopeful note.

A lot of Hux’s scenes, since I just like him a lot, and he looks both cute and funny (even if I don’t really appreciate how this character was turned into a joke after TFA). Him being unsettled by Kylo having his mask back on, and then saying fearfully how it ‘looks good’ when Kylo calls him out on it in front of everyone. Kylo waving his finger at Hux to shut him up. The whole interaction with Finn and Poe, how they were surprised he was the spy, how he helped them escape, how he asked to be shot to pretend he was taken hostage, the “I don’t care who wins, I just want Kylo Ren to lose” line, etc. Also, how strong his mind must be if he managed to hide the fact he was the spy from Kylo for so long (or did Kylo know and just ignored it?)

What I didn’t like

Rey being Palpatine’s granddaughter and all her powers coming from him. I’m disappointed, because what really interested me in this character since TFA is that she was a nobody. Star Wars had always been centered around the Skywalker family and its Exceptional Destiny™. It was nice for a change to see someone who came from nothing be the main protagonist and shake up the galaxy just because it was the right thing to do (a parallel to Finn, a simple and almost exceedingly banal stormtrooper who chose to become something more, and wasn’t pushed by some hidden destiny/heritage). Also, this whole Palaptine arc seemed like it was added at the last minute.

The whole ‘Palpatine is back and wants to make a new Empire’ shit. For me, Palpatine was really a thing of the past. That’s also what interested me in the First Order: the fact this was a regime built on the ruins of the Empire, having evolved under its shadow and memory, but wanting to become something more. It was a good way of exploring the “how the past can influence the present” thematic, and could be used as an interesting parallel to IRL authoritatian regimes reclaiming a glorious past. If Palpatine was behind everything from the beginning, nothing of this matters. Also, what was the deal with Snoke, then? Was he a mere creation of Palpatine from the beginning? Or a real being that got captured and manipulated? What was the point of this character?

Hux’s death. Like, I may be biased because he’s my favorite character, but his death was so rushed and unnecessary. Did he really need to be killed off by Pryde like that, in such a quick and callous way? With Phasma and Snoke gone, he was the only one left in the First Order to have a past history with Kylo. I think it would have been better to have them interact more, especially with the whole story of Hux being a spy. It would have created some interesting interactions. Also, he’s not anybody storywise: he’s one of the architects of the First Order’s rise to power, perfected the Stormtrooper program, participated in the creation of Starkiller Base, gave the order to destroy the Republic... He’s not some random underling. Nobody seems to react or care when he’s killed off out of the blue, which doesn’t make any sense storywise.

The whole character of Allegiant General Pryde. What was even the point of this character? Where does he come from? What did he do that Hux couldn’t have done? The only interesting thing about this character seems to be that he already served Palpatine during the Empire, but after this fact is stated, it doesn’t come up again and doesn’t really influence the story. He doesn’t do anything extraordinary, just gives random orders. Clearly a waste, imo.

The fact that the Rose/Finn thing is completely abandoned. I know a lot of people didn’t like that kiss in TLJ. I personnaly didn’t really care. But it’s weird it’s never mentioned again, and that even in the few interactions those characters have together, there’s no awkwardness, no aknowledgement that it ever happened (even just to say “we moved on”). It’s like it never even existed. What was the point of that kiss, then?

That weird love triangle thing I felt between Rey/Finn/Poe, and the hostility Poe seemed to have towards Rey for a good part of the movie. I really wonder if they didn’t try to subtly cater to Finn/Rey shippers (by making Finn seem in love with Rey) and to Finn/Poe shippers (by making Poe seem in love with Finn, and jealous towards Rey), while nothing clear is ever stated out loud. Of course, I may have misread the vibes, but that’s what their interactions made me think of.

Kylo’s death. Like, I may here again be biased because I like redemption stories, but was it really necessary to have him die right when he turns back to the Light? I was so hopeful for him, and it was all gone in an instant. Also, his death was very weird and seemed rushed. Rey kisses him, he smiles, he seems quite fine and not /at all/ on the verge of death, and then he just loses conciousness and disappears? What even was that?? (also, very sad to make that whole family die off without having known any true happiness away from Palpatine’s manipulations)

Stuff overwhelming the story: too many big revelations, too many powerful ships appearing out of the blue, too many weird stuff happening with Palpatine (wtf was that ‘ritual’ even? what was this shadowy audience he had?). Just...a lot of stuff to digest. And the Palpatine storyline seemed like it was added out of the blue. Nothing in the 2 last movies gave a clue about this (or it wasn’t obvious). Seemed like a cheap last minute addition..

#tros spoilers #the rise of skywalker

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arabian-bloodstream · 4 years

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Star Wars: Flashback Cut (and why)

I know I just posted this, BUT... I also posted it on a Star Wars subreddit I’m a member of and someone had an awesome suggestion in the comments and so I made a change that I think works so much better:

If you’re stuck at home and feel like giving Star Wars a binge-watch, here’s a potential new way to watch it. This is my preferred way of watching The Star Wars Saga. It keeps the vast majority of big surprises intact, while preserving the story integrity. It also links narratives and character arcs, and strengthens those narratives and arcs overall, in my opinion. I also feel that in doing so it makes the Prequel Trilogy and Rise of the Skywalker (some of the weaker films in the saga--again, my opinion) feel more seamless and part of the greater whole, thus making them stronger.

*Note if you prefer The Skywalker Saga you can leave Solo out.

STAR WARS: THE FLASHBACK CUT

Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

Episode IV: A New Hope

Episode I: The Phantom Menace

Episode II: Attack of the Clones

Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

Episode III: Revenge of the Sith

Episode VI: Return of the Jedi

Episode VII: The Force Awakens

Episode VII: The Last Jedi

Solo: A Star Wars Story

Episode IX: Rise of the Skywalker

AND WHY THIS WORKS (FOR ME) …

Rogue One

- R1 makes perfect sense having no scrawl because the A New Hope scrawl recaps the events of R1 whereas R1 started the story.

- Everything with the single reactor blast destroying the Death Star explains that “plot hole” in ANH now.

- Knowing all of these people and all they’ve done and their sacrifice adds so much resonance and power to the Rebellion and what they’re doing/fighting for before we hear Luke talk about them in ANH.

- Bail shows up and has focus and it’s like why? But then towards the end, his final scene explains that he has to get back to his people on Alderaan but he has someone he trusts with his life to help, leading to the Leia scene at the end. This not only sets up and leads to ANH, it also means that when Alderaan in ANH is blown up, we actually know someone on that planet now. That gives it some more emotional heft too.

A New Hope

The Phantom Menace

- Doing this gives us a much broader history of the Jedi, we find out more about Obi-Wan's history and we feel his loss much greater, and we really mourn the fact that Luke never knew his father.

- In about a minute into the film, young Obi-Wan is introduced. He is the first character’s whose name is given and coming into this from ANH, we know who he is and it's clear that we're going to find out his story.

- Just a quick note, but I wanted to point out why I feel the Machete Cut (which completely excises TPM) doesn’t work. The entire Trade Federation story is not only the entire backbone to how Palpatine rises to power, but it’s also why Amidala (and thus Anakin) has the relationship with him that she does. These are two huge reasons as to why the Machete Cut doesn’t work.

Another is the scene where young Anakin is being questioned by the Jedi Council. That scene right there, in a nutshell, tells us what will be the main turning point that starts Anakin on the Dark path. He’s asked about missing his mother. Young Anakin questions what that has to do with anything and he’s told it has everything to do with it. He fears what will happen to her, and fear leads to anger and aggression and aggression leads to the Dark Side. And we all know that is *exactly* what happens.

Attack of the Clones

- Another reason that the Machete cut doesn't work is that it's several minutes into the film before we meet any character we know from the Original Trilogy (in the elevator scene with Obi-Wan and Anakin). Also, it’s a bit longer before Anakin himself is referenced by name. Amidala calls him "Ani" instead. So as a starting point into the Prequel Trilogy (and definitely as a Flashback between ANH/TESB and RotJ) the Machete Cut is very confusing. (And, again, this doesn't take into account the issues mentioned under TPM.)

- Now we see Luke's father, roughly the same age as he was, so similar as the boy we met in ANH and we also know that the girl we met in TPM is his mother. So, we've met both of his parents, we've seen them fall in love. This beautiful tragedy is going to play out soon enough, we just don’t know how. And at this point we (well, new viewers) don't know that Anakin becomes Darth Vader.

The Empire Strikes Back

- The explanation of the Dark Side of the Force, how it works, how it brings people in, and how Obi-Wan lost Anakin… I know that is set up for the reveal of who Luke is and the redemption of Anakin in the third act of Return of the Jedi, but watching this before the Prequel Trilogy as if they are a Flashback set of films telling the story of what happened really strengthens that narrative. And it does so beautifully.

- It’s very, very obvious from TESB that a love triangle was VERY much in play between Luke, Leia and Han. The beginning sets up Han/Leia with a bit of Luke thrown in with that kiss, and then the bulk of the film is with Han and Leia. However the final bit has Luke and Leia with their connection, her kissing him (again) on the lips, and the two together while Lando and Chewie are off to find Han.

They could have easily set it up so that by the time the third film had rolled around, Leia and Luke were involved–and the “other one” was to be introduced fresh in the third film. (As was originally intended.) Now, I still think that if they had done that, it would have been Han and Leia in the end as the bulk of the love story we saw was Han and Leia, but they did still definitely set up the triangle (that was hinted at in the first film) to go full throttle in the third movie.

Going with The Flashback Cut actually helps eliminate any sense of that once we return to the trio because of the reveal of Luke and Leia being twins at the end of Revenge of the Sith before you go into Return of the Jedi.

- Aha! By having TPM and AotC before this one, we've only met Anakin, but we really know him now. So to find out that *he* becomes Darth Vader will truly, deeply have an impact like HOLY SHIT!

- Having Luke asking Ben “Why?” a couple of times regarding the Anakin/Darth Vader lie at the end of TESB before going into Revenge of the Sith to find out how it happens makes so much sense. It sets it up that we are going to be told why.

Revenge of the Sith

- With TESB ending on Luke asking Ben “why?” we follow up immediately with the answer in full detail.

- Bringing baby Luke to Tatooine at the end of the film signifies that Anakin’s story is over and settles us right back in for the return to Luke’s story. It segues beautifully into the title of the next one: "Return of the Jedi” in a couple of different ways. We’re done with the Sith story and now we’re going back to the Jedi. Also, Luke is the Jedi and we’re returning to his story: Return of the Jedi (aka Luke).

Return of the Jedi

- Watching Yoda’s death scene really is enhanced by having just watched the Prequel Trilogy, especially the last third of RotS, before it. Him talking to Luke about not underestimating the power of the Dark Side as they are talking about Anakin/Vader adds so much depth and emotion for the viewer to that conversation.

- Leia being revealed as his twin was just not this big OOH! moment; it just seemed kinda, throwaway? So being revealed in the PT is an OK loss in my books for all we get in return.

- Finally, the biggie... we just watched Anakin's entire story play out from a young, innocent enslaved boy to becoming a slave to the Dark Side and Palpatine's power and control. And here we see him break free, once more the emotional pull between a parent and a child being the catalyst, but this time it's the reverse. Anakin is the parent, and it's love that is the motivator not hate.

The Force Awakens

The Last Jedi

- There is the dice that we saw on the Falcon and that dice comes into play in the closing scenes with Luke and Leia, and then especially Kylo/Ben as he’s kneeling before the Falcon that disappears in his hand.

It's OK that we don't see Solo before TLJ, because we don't need to know where the dice come from because they’re just symbols at this point–they were important to Han and that was their only needed key point in this film. Also, since TFA ended on a cliffhanger, having a flashback film between them would completely throw the balance off. TLJ *has* to come immediately after TFA for that reason.

Solo

- On the other hand, it is cool to find out why the dice we’re important to Han and we do in Solo.

- As well, the talk of the stuff that’s happening with the Empire/the Emperor in Solo sets up the horror of what could happen with the Emperor coming back in The Rise of Skywalker.

- Also, seeing Kylo/Ben’s father going from a good kid who loses his way, lost and trying to find himself just as Kylo was at the end of TLJ (and like Han, he didn't get the girl) works well.

- Plus, it also gives a breather that helps fill the stretch of time between TLJ and TRoS.

- Even though, the opening crawl is written differently than the other films, unlike the R1 story, Solo still at least has the crawl, and by not being the traditional crawl, it lets us know right away that something different is going on. Then, boom! We meet a young Han in the first scene and we're on our way, but it was that untraditional crawl that already set us up to expect a swerve away from the continuation of TLJ.

* As I stated atop, if you just want to do The Skywalker Saga binge, Solo can easily be dropped from the watch-list.

The Rise of Skywalker

- With the horrors that the Emperor and his Empire made of the galaxy fresh in our mind, viewers really will not want to see a return of the Emperor. (OK, not that they would anyway.)

- We just saw a young Lando come out of the shadows deciding to fight the good fight… and here he is forty years later, doing it all over again.

- Just having watched Ben’s father’s idealistic self turned into a cynic by what the Empire/the Dark Side had created of the Galaxy visited upon his son–and turned him even worse–and then flipped on his side is a beautiful thing as Ben helps to keep that from happening all over again.

So there you go, my Star Wars: Flashback Cut (and why):

The Star Wars Saga - All released SW films: R1, 4, 1, 2, 5, 3, 6, 7, 8, Solo, 9

The Skywalker Saga - All SW films w/Skywalker characters: R1, 4, 1, 2, 5, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9

#star wars #tlj #tros #tfa #anh #tesb #rogue one #sw solo #aotc #rots #tpm

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thebastardofgloucester · 4 years

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So...The Rise of Skywalker (Spoilers, obviously)

No Star Wars movie is anywhere close to perfect. Frankly, they all have serious flaws of logistics or plot logic or characterisation changes or deus ex machinas or lack of originality (which includes A New Hope when you look at its inspirations). It's pointless and silly to pretend otherwise. At its best, Star Wars overcomes that with captivating characters, glorious spectacle, and John Williams.

I think you'll all be familiar with how much I disliked The Last Jedi (and chafed at being lumped in for disliking the movie in with bigots, unimaginative fanboys, and the like).

I liked The Rise of Skywalker. A lot. It had more than enough to offset its major shortcomings, in my opinion. It was not 'soulless,' it was not a complete recreation of Return of the Jedi anymore than The Last Jedi was a rough retelling of The Empire Strikes Back, and it was not as bad or incoherent as Attack of the Clones, jfc are you high

There are certain areas where I am more sympathetic to that not being the case for some people than others. I don't think it completely junked The Last Jedi, but it did demonstrate a huge gap in creative visions, preferred plot structures, and other priorities. Blame for that should not lie with JJ Abrams (or Chris Terrio) or Rian Johnson, who did what they thought was best, and what they were hired to do, and what they thought audiences would enjoy. It should lie with the Lucasfilm story group and Kathleen Kennedy, who had every opportunity to make a trilogy with a united vision and simply declined to do so. (There are a set of different issues with Disney that I'll get to)

Anyway, here's my take on individual components.

Rey ‘Palpatine’

We might as well start with the single most contentious part of the film, and where it is perceived (wrongly, in my opinion) to clash the most with The Last Jedi: Rey being of the Palpatine bloodline.

Rey's arc was about pushing past her own past traumas and doubts and the repeated attempts of other people to define who she was to make her own identity. It is about the refutation of destiny, of genetic determinism. I'm not really sure how anyone really came away with a different impression. I understand being annoyed that Rey couldn't just come from nothing, but call me an annoying fanboy - I wanted some explanation for how Rey was a match for the grandson of literal Space Jesus. Anakin being the most powerful Jedi ever born (and how he was failed by those who were supposed to guide him to that destiny) is kind of central to the entire mythology of Star Wars. Is it reductive and elitist? I guess. I certainly enjoy having Jedi not born of the Skywalker bloodline in the old EU and the Clone Wars/Rebels story. I was frustrated by killing off all of Luke's students as part of resetting the universe in The Force Awakens, and never learning anything about them.

Honestly, as somebody who was in the Rey Skywalker camp (and wrote fanfiction to that effect!), I was glad to be wrong. This was better. It gave Rey more agency, and emphasized found family.

The exposition is weird and clunky. JJ clearly meant for Rey to have some kind of blood link to the previous mythology of the series - you cannot watch the sequence in Maz's castle and tell me otherwise. Rian didn't want to tell that story. JJ did. Kathleen Kennedy and Lucasfilm threw their hands up in the air and Disney raked in the cash. Looking at that Maz castle beat, there's a very good case to be made that Rey was supposed to be either a Skywalker or a Solo, and Palpatine was JJ's attempt to not completely throw out Rian's idea (that her parents went into hiding, becoming 'no one,' abandoning her and being killed somewhere else - their motivations in TLJ (drunks ditching her) are imputed by Kylo and Rey's own fears of abandonment, remember).

Weirdly, I think that of the outcomes, Palpatine was the best one. Explaining how Rey ends up alone on Jakku when she's related to either Luke or Leia is pretty hard without further damaging their characters. Palpatine having lovers, mistresses, whatever before Mace melted his face is gross but entirely plausible. The timeline is...confusing - I guess there's enough basis for Palpatine still having agents running around, chasing down Rey, that even years after his death Rey's parents would leave her behind in an attempt to protect her. It's a bit muddy, but so was Anakin being Luke and Leia's father before we had the prequels. A novel here would probably help if it is written competently)

The point is that Rey's arc refutes genetic destiny. Instead of being afraid of her, as the Jedi were of Anakin (and to an extent, the Skywalkers were of Ben) Luke and Leia (specifically Leia) allow her to grow into her own person, and ultimately she chooses to take the name Skywalker to honor them (and Ben's sacrifice). The problem in my mind is less that Rey is a Palpatine by blood or a Skywalker by choice, and more that she's the only Jedi standing at the end of the trilogy. Making Finn's absolutely obvious force sensitivity a bigger deal narratively in TROS would have helped a lot (more on that later). And we still have the important implications of Broom Boy! He's not erased from existence, there simply wasn't room for his story in these 2.5 hours.

The First Act (and a bit)

The first 30 minutes or so of The Rise of Skywalker are...nuts. They feel less like a movie and more like a series of trailers or a 'previously on' for a movie we never saw. It's about as well done as it could be at establishing plot threads, the situation of the Resistance v the First Order, and where characters are starting from, as you could reasonably expect, but it's like cramming the entirety of the Jabba's Palace segment of Return of the Jedi into about half its runtime, at most.

What it comes down to, and I said this at the time, is that The Last Jedi is a very bad sequel to The Force Awakens. That doesn't (REPEAT: DOES NOT) make it bad film, or even a bad Star Wars film. But in terms of what the middle movie of a planned trilogy should be. It is. Not Good. JJ had seeded hints of Rey's origins and opened a bunch of mysteries. You can contend that he never intended or was never capable of answering them, and I think that's entirely unfair and reducing JJ's opus to the unsatisfying ending of 'Lost' is stupid and lazy, but they were there. The Last Jedi threw all of that out with extreme prejudice. I deeply disliked that; other people didn't. Either way, you had a problem (and you would have had even more of a problem if Colin Trevorrow had directed Episode IX as planned - this could have been SO. MUCH. WORSE.). The Rise of Skywalker is a natural sequel to The Force Awakens, though Palpatine's return could have been foreshadowed much better (or at all, if we're honest?) and it really makes me wonder how much changed from the first drafts of The Force Awakens to the version of The Rise of Skywalker we saw on screen.

I saw some criticisms that we had to read the tie-in material (including a bit from Fortnite??) to understand all the specifics of what planets these were, who Kylo Ren was murdering, etc...I don’t really think any of that was particularly important. It actually opens up a ton of new storytelling opportunities and made the universe feel big again, which The Last Jedi didn’t, at least for me. Apparently the planet Kylo is fighting on is Mustafar. That...doesn’t make the slightest bit of sense (maybe we finally have a Star Wars world that isn’t a single biome?) but it wasn’t actually that important. We saw Kylo searching for the Sith Wayfinder and murdering anybody in his way, we saw Poe and Finn being pursued from one end of the universe to another, and we got the 16 hour deadline before the fleet was ready (which was...weird, admittedly, but not in the slightest less weird that the fleet running out of fuel on a slow-motion chase or needing to fly off to an entirely different system to find a ‘code breaker’ to counter a techo gadget thing that let you trace people through hyperspace.

And yeah, if you are going to forgive The Last Jedi the dumb codebreaker/fuel shit which led to the detached Canto Bight B plot, you have to just acknowledge the Wayfinder thing as a macguffin that gets the plot moving in a certain direction and gives a clear path from narrative point a to narrative point b. Rian is not ahead of JJ on this aspect.

The subsequent fetch quest is less about the macguffin and more about the character beats on the way. Kylo and his boy band pursue Rey, Rey realizes her powers are kinda scary and hella impressive (including the healing mechanic, which is entirely precedented in past canon), you get to see some brilliant, funny, and touching moments between the trio we were not allowed in The Last Jedi, Rey discovers hints about her past, and Lando shows up.

We also get to my least favorite part of the film.

Poe Dameron is Better Than This

I do not understand why they ret-conned Poe into having a past as a smuggler, or why Keri Russell’s character was even necessary. You could explain it as youthful rebellion, maybe after Poe’s mom Shara Bey died (both his parents were Rebel veterans - that’s a lot of pressure), but it fits awkwardly into the established timeline.

The one good thing that came out of it was a moment where Poe is tempted to leave the Resistance, but that only makes sense because of Poe’s terrible hotheaded, reckless characterization in The Last Jedi, neither of which at all fit with his portrayal in the Poe Dameron comics (which are excellent). Poe eventually gets where he needs to be, and the conversation with Lando after Leia passes is one of the best moments of the film, and justified bringing Lando all by itself. Oscar Isaac is apparently really frustrated with Poe’s character and I cannot blame him. Rian Johnson started this weirdness, and it is one of the greatest flaws of The Last Jedi and more people need to acknowledge how racist it was to reduce a 30-something brown-skinned veteran to an impulsive, out of control idiot who gets physically and verbally smacked around by two white women, and JJ didn’t really try to fix it. I guess his arc kinda works in a vacuum. I still deeply dislike it. Cutting that entire section down to the bare bones would have made more room for...

Finn and the Triad

The dynamic between Finn, Poe, and Rey was fantastic. There is abundant basis for Finn and Poe to be canon romantic interests, and I cannot conclude it was anything but Disney’s cowardice that prevented that from happening (and honestly, same for Finn and Rey). JJ is no more to blame than Rian - I genuinely believe this came from higher up. It sucks. A lot. What we do get is precious, and frankly makes Rian’s argument for separating them (that they would get along and it would be boring) kinda silly. They are also incredibly funny together - John, Isaac, and Daisy play off each other so damn well, and I was cackling when the Falcon was on fire and Poe was mad about BB-8.

Finn is absolutely force sensitive. It is apparently what he was trying to say to Rey, he has feelings that turn out to be correct like three times, he wielded a lightsaber with some proficiency in The Force Awakens. It’s canon. Why it isn’t explicit is a function of the Force User plot becoming divorced from Finn and Poe in The Last Jedi. JJ and Terrio also could have fixed that, and chose not to.

We got a tantalizing glimpse of what could have been with Janna and the other defectors. It was really good, but it wasn’t nearly enough, and I am Mad about it. To borrow from some great ideas on twitter, Janna could have revealed that her unit heard about Finn on Jakku and it inspired them to defect. They could have together swayed a bunch of reluctant stormtroopers to rebel (they were otherwise just treated as facist canon-fodder, which, not great when a lot of them are child soldiers!). It was perfectly set up from TFA and they just...dropped the ball.

Like I said, I’m Mad. TLJ did nothing with Finn as a defector or the child soldier thing in general, and TROS did the bare minimum. Huge, huge wasted opportunity. We got promises that we’d get to find out more about who Finn is and...we didn’t, or at least, not in the theatrical cut. TLJ had a scene of Finn and Phasma talking about his being a traitor/defector. Rian cut it down to a fight scene and the ‘Rebel Scum’ line. Writers jail for both of them, tbh, though JJ clearly cared about Finn (he’s why the character exists as he does, as why Boyega was cast, and maybe if TLJ doesn’t make Kylo into Rey’s co-protagonist we get something different. I'm not going to blame Rian for something JJ could have fixed if he cared to.

And least we got something, I guess.

Kylo Ben

I think the first time I actually cared about Ben Solo as a character was when Kylo symbolically ‘died,’ and Ben was saved by Rey’s healing abilities. That was excellent writing, even if it was not subtle. I liked Leia and Han (as part of Ben’s memories) have a role in helping him find some sort of redemption. I was frustrated and mad that Anakin Skywalker’s grandkid could be a straight up space fascist with even fewer redeeming qualities. He still deserved to die. He had no family to go back to and he was directly responsible for thousands of innocent deaths and closely linked to the death of trillions. Like Vader, you don’t just come back from that.

Like Anakin, Ben made his own choices. Was he manipulated by Snoke/Palpatine? Sure. He still had multiple occasions to chose differently and did not. It’s part of his flaws as a character. Han and Leia did their best as parents - we find out Leia even abandoned her Jedi training because she was afraid for her son. Ben’s inevitable fall (which mirrors that of Jacen Solo, a truly fascinating character who I will always be Mad about) soured the sequel trilogy from the start in some ways, but it is hard to envision it without Ben turning. I don’t know. I think without Ben being who he was we simply have a different set of movies.

The kiss is...I don’t even know. Rey clearly cared about Ben, and believed he could change, but also refused to compromise who she was in order to pull him back to the light. I would have vastly preferred a forehead kiss or something along those lines.

On balance I’m glad he got a Vader redemption. I think Palpatine came back in part because Ben simply was not a particularly captivating villain, and without him to provide contrast and make the stakes clear, Ben’s redemption is not possible, and that’s arguably an even worse outcome, especially given how he was manipulated so much at an impressionable age. I’m really glad Leia had a chance to influence his turn as her final act in this life (Carrie deserved a better ending but it was the best they could do after Carrie’s death imo).

Grandpa Palps

First, Palpatine finding a way to survive and setting up multiple contingency plans to return to power is completely in keeping with his portrayal in both the old and Nu EUs (a big part of the post-Endor stuff is Operation Cinder, where Palpatine posthumously ordered the scouring of dozens of Imperial loyalist worlds to spread fear and prevent the Empire from continuing without him). Palpatine also LOVES his superweapons - he built two Death Stars, ffs. A fleet of them is not exactly a stretch in terms of strategy. The Rise of Skywalker definitely felt like it owed a debt to one of the more divisive bits of the old Star Wars EU - the Dark Empire series of comics by Tom Veitch and Kevin J Anderson, which have cloned Palpatines, Luke turning to the Dark Side, an ungodly number of superweapons, and a planet where Palpatine hides and builds them after his defeat.

I don’t think his survival ruins Anakin’s arc - Anakin’s actions still destroyed Palpatine’s Empire (that he helped to build) and its 26 year reign of terror. The galaxy got 30 years of relative peace and then a war that was not nearly as destructive or large scale as the Galactic Civil War. People saying it makes Anakin’s arc irrelevant are just being silly.

Retconning Snoke to a cloned puppet (probably an unwitting one) is actually not a bad writing choice. It explains why he was such a cardboard cut-out villain, and why he was so easily defeated. Honestly, I’m far more okay with how he died in The Last Jedi now that I know this (even if the pacing and the placement of that scene is still utterly bizarre).

The new EU set up cults and fanatics around the Dark Side and its avatars in the emperor and Vader. None of that felt particularly implausible to me as a result.

Legacies in the Sequel Trilogy

I really loved the ‘thousand generations live in you’ conceit. I loved the power of the old Jedi, snuffed out by Palpatine, helping Rey defeat him one last time (including my girl Ahsoka, RIP, I'm sure you went out like a badass). These are legacies and powers that don’t require blood ties or dynasties, they just rely on the force spanning the whole of the GFFA.

Ben is offered the chance to either turn away from his grandfather’s dark path early enough to warrant redemption, or to follow it through until the end. He actually chooses to do neither. With Leia’s dying intercession, he ends up following Anakin’s path to an extent, but his story is ultimately about the tragedy of expectations, fears, and the immense weight of the Skywalker name and legacy. All of his family are caught up in it. Rey is mostly apart from it, and then explicitly subverts her destiny to be Palpatine’s heir, and faces her fear of ending up there, by intent or just fate. As Luke says, some things are stronger than blood. Rey’s story is the ultimate testament to that, and it’s a pretty powerful message.

Leia. Oh god. I was absolutely thrilled when we found out she trained as a Jedi, and then served as Rey’s Jedi Master after Luke failed Rey so badly (after failing Ben). I think Luke’s story from TLJ to TROS is easily the most consistent, honestly. He made mistakes, both with Ben, and then with Rey, and he recognized it. The Rise of Skywalker acknowledges that Luke wasn’t right in how he handled training Rey either, and that went a long way to making me better accept how Rian portrayed him as flippant and dismissive and cynical.

Carrie’s absence was so badly felt. As I’ve said previously, I think they did the best job they could with the footage they held back and Carrie’s recorded audio. They managed to give her a relatively coherent story and an effect on the plot which she didn’t really have in The Last Jedi. I’ve seen speculation that it was supposed to be Leia, not Luke, who gave Rey that pep talk on Ahch-To, and in some ways it might have made more sense. Selfishly, I’m still glad it was Luke, because it helped reconcile my feelings about him in The Last Jedi. But they really did a great job in a really, really tough situation.

Rose Tico

Let’s just get it out there: the film’s treatment of Rose Tico and Kelly Marie Tran was inexcusably bad. Whether her character was a great addition to the cast in the Last Jedi or not, KMT faced horrendous abuse from various bigots and assholes, and after making a lot of public promises they reduced her to barely a minute of screen-time and no real impact on the plot. It’s shitty, it’s bad, and JJ and Disney should feel bad.

Introducing a character like Rose mid-way through a trilogy is risky, and while it worked with Lando, JJ clearly had no idea what to do with her. It’s just a mess, it’s the biggest black mark on the film, and on the sequel trilogy more broadly. Nobody comes out looking good here, and Rose Tico needs a Disney + series of her own or something. Protect Kelly Marie Tran at all costs.

The Rest

- Lando was great. So great. I wish we’d gotten the line that his daughter had been stolen by the First Order (and thus was potentially Janna) - we’d better get a book or a film or something. Lando’s conversation with Poe salvaged his character arc. Billy Dee Williams did a damn good job getting in shape for the role. He came out as genderfluid recently. He’s an absolute treasure and thank god they didn’t waste him.

- I just wanted to reiterate how HAPPY I AM THAT JJ ABRAMS MADE LEIA A JEDI HOLY SHIT

- It was a blink and you’ll miss it moment for people who didn’t read Chuck Wendig’s Aftermath series, but the death of Temmin ‘Snap’ Wexley in a battle where his step-dad (Wedge Antilles) made a brief appearance was devastating and I still don’t know how to feel about it.

- The space battles were awesome. Lando and Chewie bringing in the cavalry was what we were so cruelly teased for in The Last Jedi, which I am still mad about. Forget the logistics, forget the story logic, it was awesome. Maybe in the future I’ll be more annoyed. I honestly doubt it.

- Hux lives (and dies) for drama. He’s the pettiest son of a bitch in the GFFA, he would absolutely turn informant to win his fight with Kylo Ren, especially if he suspected that Kylo had killed Snoke and then was an incompetent child. His dying shortly thereafter is honestly exactly what the character deserved.

- On the cavalry moment, and the galaxy rising to destroy the First Order - I loved it in Return of the Jedi’s special edition, I love it here. There’s a thematic resonance with our heroes overcoming their fear and the galaxy at large being stirred to action. I just wish we’d gotten a few ragtag forces to show up at Crait, but that was a choice Rian made. I’m glad JJ chose differently. It was incredibly Star Wars.

- The 3PO stuff was weird, especially given how emotionally centred it was in the final trailers. It was also tied up in the Poe stuff I disliked. I don’t really know what else to say. At least R2D2, BB-8, and him felt like characters, not purely plot devices.

- Chewie - his reaction to losing Leia was absolutely devastating, his relationship with the next gen trio was great, and his death fake-out was...weird. I could go either way with that - killing him would have been a huge risk I could have respected, on the other hand if he was going to go out he deserved better than that (like, say, a moon getting dropped on him saving the life of Han Solo's kid). His ‘death’ did set up a crucial character beat for Rey. And there were, in fact, two transports, I remember that.

TLDR;

It was a fun movie! It tried to do way too much because The Last Jedi was not an effective sequel to The Force Awakens, and that’s on Kennedy and the LFL story group more than anyone else. It nailed the broad strokes of the Jedi/Force plot in my opinion, including subverting genetic destiny and the power of blood ties over everything else. In the process, it let a number of characters down, who were unfortunately also the characters of color, which is: not great.

I found it rewarding as a fan. It rewarded my faith in the goodness of the denizens of the GFFA and the power of found family. I’ve loved Rey from the start and I’m thrilled with how her arc ended with her burying the Skywalker legacy and making a new start with her new family in Poe and Finn (and Rose, damn it). I’m glad it made me feel better about Luke Skywalker and finally made Leia a bona-fide lightsaber wielding Jedi. I was exhilarated coming out of it, instead of exhausted and frustrated like I was in The Last Jedi. It didn’t make me hate Star Wars. It had extreme Return of the Jedi energy, and that is literally all I needed out of this film.

Here’s to a load of more complex, nuanced, and adventurous storytelling that the Skywalker saga never really allowed. I’m still excited for the prospect of Rian working with his own characters in the universe. I think JJ should probably be done.

Chuck Wendig said that the Star Wars universe was junk. Fun, whimsical, exciting, but ultimately not really a well-crafted piece of art. I’m inclined to agree.

#martinus watches the star war #tros spoilers

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him-e · 6 years

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this might be a dumb comparison but would you consider star wars/skywalkers in general to be kind of like a greek tragedy? or at least inspired by greek tragedies? i just really love mythology and would like to think there’s some sort of connection in some way. thank you! :)

Definitely! Star Wars relies heavily on archetypes and psychological motifs, and many of them come from Greek and Latin literature. In the original trilogy, taken in isolation, you see more echoes of arthurian myths and classic fairytale elements than tragedy. It’s when you think of the three trilogies as a whole, particularly in terms of Anakin’s arc, his rise and fall and redemption and the repetition of the cycle with Ben’s fall just a generation later, that the Greek tragedy vibes become evident.

To put it in very simple terms, Greek tragedy typically revolves around a good/average man who has one “fatal” flaw (usually an error in judgment or hubris). Because of this, but also because of the crucial role played in the genre by the inevitability of fate and the cosmic order dwarfing humanity, fragile and powerless even at its best and at the mercy of much bigger and incomprehensible forces, the hero is bound to fall. And one fundamental aspect of tragedy is that the audience knows he’s going to fall, and watching the events unravel to the inevitable gut wrenching conclusion is cathartic. (see how the whole prequels experience is built on the premise that you know exactly how it’s going to end.) (also, side note, catharsis is a major reason why even today we need fiction, including “dark” fiction.)

The fall of the hero often takes the form of a heavily immoral act, a horrific crime against the aforementioned cosmic order that the hero performs either in good faith, as a result of his hubris, anger or passion, or because he feels he has to—be it accidentally killing your father and sleeping with your mother, sacrificing your own daughter to the gods, punishing your asshole ex husband by killing your own children, or choking your pregnant wife who has come to confront you after you slaughtered a temple of younglings. As monstrous as the act can be, the audience can’t help but sympathize with the fallen hero, because it’s clear he’s motivated by a desire to do the right thing (or to fix some wrong), he loves fiercely and intensely, he is (at least in part) a victim of circumstances, and the pain and punishment inflicted on him and everyone who he loves and who loves him is disproportionate. What happens to the protagonist is a metaphor of the fragility of human condition, in which sometimes a minor mistake or an unforeseeable chain of events leads to catastrophic consequences. Individual responsibility matters, but it’s always portrayed in tension with the cruel irony of a blind, irrational fate who tears good people and bad people down alike, which it often succumbs to, or is proven to be eventually irrelevant.

You can see how Anakin is in this sense the quintessential tragic hero. A good man raised in humble conditions but destined to be royalty, to be the hope of a galaxy, the fulfillment of a long awaited prophecy, who rises to a state of quasi-kingship (becoming a Jedi master, marrying a former queen), but remains ultimately a slave—to his own passions and fears, to destiny (as personified by Palpatineworking slowly to corrupt him), to the will of the gods (the Force), to the trappings and limitations of a corrupt society (the Jedi order and the republic). His one fatal flaw, loving Padmé, backfires and turns him into the very cause of her death.

Ben’s fall is also deeply tragic, as it’s the result of a twofold lapse in judgment: Luke’s (who falls for a second prey of his own darkness and briefly considers executing his nephew for the greater good) and Ben’s himself (who mistakes this one second of weakness for a truly murderous intent, and violentlyretaliates, and never stops acting on the false assumption that his uncle was really going to kill him).

Hubris and madness are two other crucial themes in greek tragedy and I can see the dark side as a fascinating space opera portrayal of both. And then, vengeance, and family—and even more relevant to star wars, the cycle of violence-pain-revenge. The original crime opens a wound in the cosmic order (you could also say: the Force becomes unbalanced) that spreads like a cancer dooming multiple generationsand is only really healed when there is a genuine will to step out of this cycle.

This is imo the key to understand the three trilogies in their entirety, and what they’re trying to do with the sequel trilogy in particular. Many people struggle with Ben’s fall because he “had everything”—i.e. was born in a time of peace, from a loving family of revered rebellion heroes, with unique force powers and someone to teach him how to use them, etc.—so his turning to the dark side is thrice as hard to swallow. Was he a bad seed from the start? Or did he just infuriatingly squander all he had? Other people complain that the new trilogy is built on a nihilistic concept, that evil always come back cyclically one way or another, that victory is never complete, that the heroes are bound to make the same mistakes over and over again, or that everyone is inevitably destined to be corrupted and lose hope (see the discourse re: Luke in TLJ).

Both miss the point, in my opinion. The way I see it, it all ties back to Anakin’s original crime—his tragic, blood-soaked fall to the dark side, order 66, and most importantly Padmé’s death—and how that crime was a cosmic wound that tore the balance of the universe apart and was never fully healed. So it reverberates across the galaxy, onto his progeny, and his progeny’s progeny (Ben).

Luke did begin to make things right—by choosing to reject violence he gave Vader the chance to sacrifice himself to to kill the emperor and save his son, which earned him his redemption. And…it’s a good way to end a story if you want it to end there, but if you want the story to continue, then you have to face the fact that it’s only a partial, and in many ways convenient solution to a much larger problem. Vader’s redemption did nothing to eradicate the deep-seated political views of those who were still loyal to the Empire and fighting for a dictatorship in the moment when Palpatine was killed. It wasn’t enough for Luke and Leia to actually embrace their lineage and come out as Vader’s children, if Bloodline is to be believed. It wasn’t enough to shield little Ben from Snoke’s attentions—in fact, Anakin’s blood is exactly what put a big ol’ target on Ben’s back, with nothing of his grandfather’s post-redemption wisdom to keep him on the right track, only the myth of his legacy, a myth that as we’ve sadly seen can be easily misconstrued and exploited and that Leia and Luke never properly explained to Ben either. Anakin just died, and if that single sacrifice was enough to save his soul, it actually didn’t do much to fix the countless wrongs he contributed to create during the two decades he served the Empire as lord Vader. The galaxy bled because of him. And he just died and left his children to clean up his mess. Lucas’ original idea that Vader’s redemption brought balance to the Force is a good happily ever after, but only if you don’t really plan to deal with the consequences.

More on a thematic level, RotJ represents a perfect fairytale ending on almost all fronts but it leaves a question unanswered: was Anakin wrong to love Padmé? Is romantic love wrong? Aside from Han and Leia—whose marriage didn’t end well anyway—romantic love comes out of this narrative as a tragically negative force. Specifically, romantic love for a Jedi. If you consider the first six films, the logical conclusion is that the Jedi were right, after all, to forbid romantic attachments, because look at the mess Anakin made. Anakin destroyed himself and Padmé. It was only Luke’s familial love that made him come back to the light—Luke, the eternal celibate Jedi. Familial love is good, romantic love is poisonous. The narrative absolutely implies this reading.

So although RotJ’s ending fixes everything on a superficial level, the wound keeps festering underneath, there are still many things that weren’t made right, and this is why only a few years later Luke is still so haunted by the darkness and still so afraid that a new Vader is possible that he actually considers killing his nephew for a split second. This is why the ashes of the old Empire don’t die out, but instead give birth to a new tyrannical power; and why Leia cannot be free to live her life in peace with her family, but still feels committed to a rebellion that never ceased to have reasons to exist, even after the Emperor’s death.The gods (the Force) aren’t satisfied, if you will, so they keep punishing this family. The original evil has not been completely exorcised. Love, personified by Padmé’s unacceptable, unnatural death, hasn’t been vindicated. The balance is not restored. And Ben falls.

The sequel trilogy is set to heal this wound, for real, this time. It’s also why it has a much darker tone (despite the superficial humor) than the original trilogy. It’s not impossible for a tragedy to have a happy ending, but the resolution must have the same tone, the same gravity of the premise. The prequels are a tragedy, and the original trilogy is essentially a fairytale, a hero’s journey—they’re basically two different genres, and Vader’s last minute redemption seems (and is) inadequate once you’ve seen all three movies of his very detailed and nuanced fall to the Dark Side.

We’re watching, through Ben, the tortured redemption arc that should have been written for Vader if this story had followed a chronologically and stylistically linear narrative. Through Ben and Rey, we’re watching a reconciliation of the Dark and the Light side, whose unresolved conflict, worsened by the repressive puritanical policy of the Jedi order, originated the schism in Anakin’s soul. And we’ll also (hopefully) get the answer to that question I said earlier, and see the redemption of romantic love.

#anon #asks #sw asks #sw for ts #sw**#///#greek tragedy #house skywalker #reylo for ts #just a little #mmm i hope this makes sense

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