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kaypeace21 · 3 years

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Mike comes out to El , Mileven breaks up for good, and the future of byler (s4 theory)

*this is based off the stranger things movie inspirations they listed on twitter , in the show, or in interviews/other outside materials. All movies mentioned have been said to be inspo for the show.

So I’ll be mentioning mostly the movies- sw*ngers, what women want, wet hot american summer and splash (and others). Along with Tootsie -which was shown in s4 bts.

Before I give a rough outline of what may happen. I have to specify I don’t think El will be “heartbroken” over mileven cause I don’t think she loves Mike romantically . I’ve already discussed why i think she doesn’t love him romantically at nauseam - but regardless mileven brings out the worst in El and Mike. And literally inhibits her character growth. So as an El fan- I’m super excited for mileven to be put to rest. SORRY. I’ll trade El & Kali teaming up to get closure from their ab*ser ...over mileven any day of the week XD.

I think Mileven broke up in s3 (and remained broken up) . But we’ll have more closure and a more official breakup in s4 when Mike visits the byers. (And Mike admits he’s gay to his ex )- before byler officially begins. Essentially, I think- Mileven broke up, but El still calls constantly .And Mike starts ignoring her calls so El demands an explanation and he admits to her he’s gay and doesn’t want to get back together.

So first lets talk about Phone calls

I think based off the movies and s3 we’ll see El call quite a bit in s4 (almost obsessively) . And Mike has had enough. In s3, he said he’ll call so often -she’ll have to turn her walkie off . But I believe it’ll be the opposite-with El calling so much he’ll turn it off.

We see foreshadowing for this in s3 when Mike hangs up the phone after saying “El ? no, sorry, not interested.” Or when he hangs up on her multiple other times that season ( he even technically hung up the walkie on her in s2 , as well ). But, in defense of El, given her lack of socialization (and seeing mike call her constantly between s1-2 I wouldn’t be surprised if she thought this was the norm).

-In splash there’s a scene similar to s3 - a blond relative picks up another phone to eavesdrop on him talking to his gf. He yells at the blonde relative and when the gf asks if he loves her -he tries to dodge the question. But they break up and he admits to his relative he never loved her. Maybe confessing to Karen?

* This reminds me of that supposed rumor with El saying “I love you” and Mike not into El just saying “I know” in return.Or Mike in s3 saying quickly “i miss you-bye.” And immediately hanging up on her.

-some other aspects of the s3 breakup may be taken from “pineapple express .Which had comedic breakups via phone . When broken-up he says “I love you “ and she says it back to him (like mileven). He IMMEDIATELY says he takes it back and “I made a mistake” (when he sees she took him seriously). And then he specifies that’s it’s because she’s must be too “ naive and immature” to willing to take him back after how horrible of a bf he was to her in the past. Which yeah -fits mileven: they said the ‘L word’ when broken up, Mike did immediately try to take it back , and he may have realized at the s3 finalie how naive el was -to still want him back despite him not being a good bf to her. In ‘p.i’ the girl’s mom even says maybe it’s best she find someone new who actually appreciated her or ‘better yet just be single’ and hang out with her gal pals (lol if joyce gave this advice to El-that’d be great)! El doesn’t need romance to be her own-happy person! Also in ‘p.i’ Dale + his male bff are always assumed to be gay for eachother as a running gag .So ... I’ll technically throw that as another byler hint- lol.

-In sw*ngers Michael (yes that’s his name) who is made fun of for being perceived as gay gets a call from his ex gf of 6 months). And he hangs up on her to talk to his other love interest who asks if he wants to see her. Michael (specifically hangs up on his ex as she says “I lo-” to talk to this new love interest. He later brags to his friend (at a dinner) about not calling her back (despite her wanting to get back together) and he says proudly she was “always his ex”- when his friend incorrectly calls her his “gf” .

-While in ‘what women want’- an ex gf goes to him cause he didn’t answer her calls. In ‘tootsie’ the gf does the same and is pissed that her bf Michael (yes, yet another michael) didn’t answer her calls for a week. And he LIES saying his answering machine was broken. Would not be surprised if mike made up such an excuse.

Similar to ‘tootise’ & in ‘what women want’-both gals who’s phone calls were ignored ask if their bf (in mileven’s case -ex bf ) is gay. And in ‘swingers’ someone makes fun of mike for being gay. too Lol-i’m sorry 2 movies where a guy named Mike is called out for being gay /and 2 movies where a gf who’s phone calls are ignored asks is they’re bf is gay is suspish XD

In ‘tootsie’. We also have movie-mike give her a present before she asks if he’s gay /they breakup -it echos what previously happened in s3.

- Michael (from the film) despite not want to be with her anymore (and loving someone else) tries giving her a gift to patch things up - despite his lying/ignoring her. The gift /empty gesture annoys her. Which is similar to st- mike not apologizing for lying- but trying to give El a gift to make up with her (but he doesn’t even do as much as film-Mike).

Right after this is when she asks if he’s gay (aka so for mileven we have the gift scene for s3 & El asking if he’s gay in s4-which were both borrowed from ‘tootsie’).

In ‘tootsie’, she finds romantic letters Michael has from another guy and this causes her to ask him if he’s gay .(20+ movies have romantic letters). In ‘littlewomen’ the artist gal and her future husband (who used to have a crush on the painter’s sis) exchange letters.And in ‘wet hot american summer’- a guy ditched his friends to write a letter (and his friends make a gay joke about him because of his letter writing-not knowing he’s actually gay.

In ‘what women want’ when confronted- he admits he’s gay to his ex gf. In ‘tootsie’ she asks if he’s gay and he avoids the question but after she demands that he be “truthful for once in your life”. And, we all know how Mike constantly “lied” to EL .michael finally says he’ll stop lying to her and admits he’s in love with someone else.

And she says in turn she’s not angry he doesn’t love her but that he lied (and similar to s2 where Mike calls Hopper a “liar”. The ex gf calls movie-mike a “liar” over and over). In fact they use the identical phrase of “you liar. you liar.”

Not to mention- she does sound like El. She says she’s more upset about the lying than the fact movie-mike doesn’t love her.

But I do think they eventually get closure and El realizes she doesn’t love Mike (romantically either) before her real character/story arc begins.

movies: twister & you got mail

I’m so ready for the El & Kali teamup in s4. It’s like s2 (we get El & Kali pursuing Brenner + byler moments).

But what happens before Mike says this?I assume before this -mike & Will may confide in others about their feelings. And Mike/Will may be bullied for being perceived as gay .

-In “welcome to the dollhouse” a boy is bullied for being seen as gay in school & at an arcade- and a character who is made fun for being a lesbian defends him at school/the arcade (so maybe robin?)Since Robin works next to the arcade/is gay. Similarly, Fin’s character (at an arcade) is bullied and called a “fairy” and f*g” in ‘It 2′. And movie-Mike is made fun of for being perceived as gay in ‘sw*ngers’. Along with the guy (who was gay) being called homophobic names for writing letters (in wet hot american summer).We also know hawkins will most likely have a ‘satanic panic’ over d&d, rock music, and other things- which was historically rooted in christian fundamentalism.In ‘Kingsmen’ the churchgoers pretty much go on a rant being hom*phobic, r*cist, anti-science, anti-athe*st, anti-other religions, and anti-democrat and equate all of these groups of people to the endtimes/the anti christ. So one guy just snaps and says he’s gay, loves science , etc and says after “so... hail satan .And have a lovely day.”And storms out. lol not sure about all that -but it’d be hilarious XD. Trigger warning for hom*phobic sl*rs.

-Proof For Will was : In ‘heathers’ the jocks make fun of the new guy in the cafeteria- by asking him if he misses his boyfriend and call him the f-sl*r .in ‘superbad’ the guy who draws is called hom*phobic sl*rs and in ‘wedding crashers’ someone calls the male-painter character a “homo”. In “hackers” the (computer-nerd) who just moved to town is asked by his single mom if he “likes girls”.etc

Also, in “The guest” a computer-nerd in highschool is bullied for being perceived as gay (and he’s given really bad advice about how to deal with it by a lonnie-esque character who is visiting his house/family for a while). The advice is also similar to the advice given in the st comic (from Troy’s dad).

Honestly just the fire ref makes me nervous. The computer-boy eventually snaps (after never standing up for himself) and beats up his homophobic bullies.

*whenever Lonnie comes back - I assume we’ll see he’s a bad influence on Will pretty quickly

In ‘the guest’ they also made a joke that the clearly older guest must be the gay highschoolers’ boyfriend (which is not the case).

While In ‘stoker’ ,the highschool painter eventually loses it after dealing with constant harrassment- and stabs the bully’s hand (to block a punch coming their way) after the bully made an inc*st joke about the painter & the family guest. So a joke like that could certainly cause Will to finally snap (as opposed to the other gay jokes they used earlier). In ‘dukes of hazzard’ a guy also snapped and got into a fight over a inc*st joke (and in ‘girl interrupted” they make a similar messed up inc*st joke).

Given my theory on Will’s trauma with his dad (which he doesn’t remember)-I would not be surprised even on a subconscious level such a comment finally gets him to snap -maybe accidentally unleash his powers for the first time?Lonnie could say something about how Will should light his bullies on fire, they make a triggering joke about Lonnie &himself... and Will the wise does have fire powers after all. In the film ‘firestarter’ the kid who couldn’t control their fire abilities also lights a bully on fire accidentally so... maybe? In ‘skyhigh’ Will’s superpowers aren’t revealed until he accidentally unleashes them on a bully in the lunchroom. And 1 character in that scene says “don’t talk about my dad” before using his fire powers. Also... it’s not on the inspo list technically but the Duffers are known avengers/xmen fans.So Will could be based on scarlet witch’s son William (code name Wiccan) - he’s gay ,has lightning&fire powers and can alter reality. He’s been possessed In the past by the ‘demiurge’ - even spit up a slug too. He opens a portal to his world allowing the inter dimensional monster “mama” out (cough demogorgans are called “deep father”.) And he’s constantly bullied for being gay- and the 1 time he finally decides to stand up to his h*mophobic bullies- is the day his powers activate for the first time and almost k*ll the bully. Not super confident in this theory but thought I’d mention it just in case. Ok- this post is supposed to not be too plot heavy. So back to byler-

*Before Mike visits they may both confide in people about their feelings for the other . in skyhigh (at a dinner similar to the convo in sw*ngers where Mike talks about his ex gf) the bff of Will (yes his name) goes on and on about Will and how she’s known him since the first grade. And someone asks “so you’ve been in love with Will since the 1st grade?” Which she tries denying but quickly admits is true. And her friend says she should confess to Will.

In fisher king - a women who works at a videostore tries setting up 2 people- a gal-writer and a guy with an alternate personality/ who hallucinates a fearsome mythical creature (obviously Will). When people doubt the idea the girl can love this mentally ill guy she says “stranger things have been known to happen.” And in “altered states” the guy who would hallucinate flashing to another hell dimension (like Will)- has a wife. And people say “she’s crazy about him and he’s crazy.” When they weren’t together she says to her friend she had to pretend anyone she dated was him and she says “it’s crazy” in response the friend says “i think that’s how it’s supposed to be.” Plus in fisherking one character wrote a book dedicated to his wife (which had the same title as the movie they’re in) . And someone says about this author “ he was crazy about her” as he holds the novel in his hands.

* The ‘pretending the person you’re dating is someone you’re actually in love with’ was also mentioned in ‘children of paradise’ (reffed by Robin in s3).

*I’ve also talked about Mike projecting his feelings for Will to El-here.

Will confiding in someone is harder to say. in ‘reality bites’ when asking about why she doesn’t want to be involved in romance a friend asks “because of Michael?” Which she first denies but later admits is part of the reason.

And in ‘hellboy’, (while taking pics) John Myers tells the fire wielding character (with mental health issues) that her bff is in love with her and asks how she feels . The 2 bffs are endgame but at first she tells John that she’s unsure because she’s known him practically her whole life (but she thinks of him everyday).

Lol not sure if Jonathan would ever be so straight forward but it’d be nice callback to s1/2 convos they had (Jon saying in s1 to not like things cause you’re supposed to / saying being a “freak” like queer david bowie is cool) .In “twister” & “it’s a wonderful life” a family member also tells a character that their childhood friend that they’re in love with (isn’t into the person they’re currently with). In ‘ wonderful life’ she says they’re “not crazy” about the other person-but them. And they say they know this cause they “have eyes.” And In “twister” the family member says them visiting them is proof they love them.

*plus Sam who is supposedly crazy about her (also isn’t crazy about marry). Aka El isn’t crazy about Mike- but Will assumes she (along with mike). Cough El saying “what makes you crazy?” in s3.

-While in “hackers’ the kid (with a single mom) who is into computers, and upset they were forced to moved to a new city -is asked by the mom “Do you like girls?” . And he angrily denies and says he’s ‘not gay’ (which could followthrough with what happened in s3- Will not opening up to her about romance, like him telling Joyce he’d never fall in love. so he may lie to her if asked that question? Unlike Jon?

So it’s possible Will confides in Jonathan (and or Joyce) & maybe Mike to his mom/nancy?/a friend (maybe Robin or Max) (hard to say). My top guesses are Will &Jon. And Mike with Robin (and maybe his mom or sister a bit after Robin?)

Mike visiting the Byers

In ‘Tootsie’, michael (disguised as a woman named dorothy...long story XD) meets up with the person he really loves and gives them a present. The 2 low-key have like a psuedo-gay courting for most of the movie (before they get together). In ‘paddington 2′, the main character even gets multiple jobs to save up for a birthday present for a loved one (another contrast to mileven- who Mike,despite being rich couldn’t even spend $3.50 on. They did that alot -show contrasts with both ships .So s4 would be no different.And It’s Will’s b-day in s4 after all so Mike getting Will a present makes the most sense.

*last pics from ‘scarface’- I have no idea what he’d get Will for his b-day but if it’s engraved with “crazy together” I will lose my mind. Also the parent glaring during this scene-makes me suspect Lonnie . I do suspect Lonnie will sabotage byler-but it may end up being a s5 plotpoint instead of s4? (I guess in s4 it could be El-since el has been known to get very jealous in the past (like with max).

- In ‘waynes’ world’ the ex gf refused to accept the breakup initially (despite it being months ago). And she didn’t understand how breakups worked . Which given El’s lack of socialization - I get her confusion on the concept. Like how in s3 Max had to correct El that Mike was her “ex boyfriend”. In the film, she even tried giving him a present for their ‘anniversary’ (hopefully El doesn’t try to do something like that out of jealousy of the prior gift giving -cause Wayne just says the gift shows how little she knows him).

*You have to admit this scenario of Mike having to explain breakups isn’t that far-fetched.

(even when broken up with wayne- she wore a necklace with his name on it. ) Which reminds me of How El had a bunch of Mike related stuff in her room-including things that said “mike” on them.

in waynes’ world: The ex gf would follow her ex and still refer to him as her bf and be a 3rd wheel and interrupt every attempt for wayne to romantically confess to his new love interest (like in ‘dumb and dumber’/’high fidelity ‘).A similar scenario also happens in ‘tootsie’- Michael (as dorothy) almost confesses (on a swing set) but is interrupted by another person interested in him (Mike). Personally, I assume El would just do this unintentionally- assuming Mike wants to be with her and being a bit pushy but probably being oblivious of byler.

Not to mention the Duffers are petty AF and probably got annoyed with all the jokes that Will was a 3rd wheel to mileven- when literally Will wasn’t even around the 2 interacting alone . A 3rd wheel- has a group of 3 consisting of a couple and a third superfluous person. Which never really happened? Plus,we saw the ‘burns’ they did of mileven over the past 3 seasons- it’ll probably get worse.

And again we already know El had no qualms spying on her ex (mileven even dances to ‘every breath you take’ a song about a stalking ex gf).And El also watched the ‘all my children’ ep with Erica & mike roy. Which in the show after their breakup - had 1 of them refuse to accept the other didn’t love them and want to get back together- and stalk them/ sabotage their exe’s romantic pursuits. Only to eventually accept reality and move on. Although, I think this is mostly un-intentional on El’s part.

In ‘clueless’ she flirted with a gay guy who she thought was straight/in love with her and kept trying to make a move-much to his discomfort . And in ‘birdcage’ the ex gf would hit on her gay ex bf- and his male partner catches the 2 and misinterprets it as not one sided ). That scenario happens in quite a few movies. I could see Will (before byler happens/mike tells el the truth ) misinterpreting and assuming mike and El are still romantically connected or will get back together .

New Swings scene (almost confession)/possible swing-flashback

Ok back to (tootsie) .In the film,Michael’s love interest was raised by an older sibling- and he even tries to confess to her when they’re on a bench swing together . Not even the only movie with a gay gal character + gal bestfriend swinging on a bench together (’silkwood’ ). In ‘enter the void’ there was also a flashback of a little kid asking the other “do you love me?”/ and him saying “a lot” .

* it’s like a subversion of what happened in s3 at the hospital. Also like the Wayne’s world scene of the ex gf interrupting...

But i don’t think El will be the only one trying to get mileven back together. But Will as well.In ‘Emma’ & ‘clueless ‘ :character A assumes her guy friend is into their mutual friend and tries to get them together (despite him being into character A only). I could see Will misinterpreting mileven and trying to be a good friend and get them back together (despite his own feelings). In ‘emma’ and ‘clueless’ (before they fight) there’s is a party/dance (it’s in a lot of movies).It’s possible mike, Will, and El go somewhere to dance - a lot of films have the 2 people in love-dance with others -but stare at eachother the entire time.In ‘clueless’ 2 gay guys and cher (who is flirting with one of the gay guys) all dance together. In karate kid, referenced by Max to El. Has a guy kiss his ex without her permission (on the dance floor)- and the karate kid sees the girl he likes being kissed by her ex and misinterprets the scenario (assuming they’re back together). I suppose the fact they changed the s2 script where Will was watching Mike dance with El may come back up in a later season? Could also be a callback to when Mike looked mopey at Will dancing with a girl (after encouraging him to dance with her). Will could do the same (as mike in s2). Or they both stare at eachother while dancing with other people. or it’s just a concept they scrapped- it’s hard to say.

*movie list (truman show,16 candles,step up 2,karate kid, backdraft 2 & stormship troopers)

Confession & fall out

In ‘emma’ & ‘clueless’: character A (after the dance party) goes with the guy home and he tries kissing her . She dodges it confused saying he’s mistaking her for her friend! And he explains he was never romantically interested in her friend. In ‘emma’ he even bought her a super expensive gift before hand and she still assumed he was into her friend not her. And he even specifies in Emma- the reason he came to visit her house was for her (not her friend). A similar scenario happens in ‘weird science’ and he says she just thought of the gal he used to be infatuated with as a “sister” (and we all know the sibling parallels in mileven). And in ‘little women’- the artist gal dodges a kiss and says to her love interest “I won’t be courted with someone in love with my sister.” And he explains exasperated he doesn’t love her sister- despite constantly trying to be with her sister previously.

In ‘tootsie’, what caused Mike (dressed as Dorothy) to try and kiss her was- the other gal saying she feel like she wants something she can’t have and because of that -their friendship makes her feel lonely (it’s very queer coded dialogue). She dodged mike/dorothy’s kiss but then says she has the same (gay) “impulses” as Dorothy but that she’s not mentally sound enough to be in a relationship. A thought that may cross Will’s mind.

But, before they can talk about the almost kiss-her dad calls via phone and interrupts. (They eventually do get together though). But she tells Mike/Dorothy she ‘can’t love’ her,before this.

*may not come across in photos-but she’s crying when sayin this.

Also, a fight about “what they are-friends/or romantic” before a phone call interrupts ( happens in ‘it’s a wonderful life’ and ‘the fisher king’ too.) Those pairings were also both endgame. In wonderful life the artist gal yells why he even came to visit her . And he implies she knows why (aka his romantic feelings) .There’s a similar convo in ‘fisher king’ (asking why they’re there) + 1 of them saying it’s “bullshit” and “stupid” to pretend they’re ‘just friends’. (We all know the context of the phrases “bullshit’ and “stupid” by now). Even Han implies Leia wants him to stay cause he has feelings for him-which she denies . Thus, irritating him.

*(I’ve already mentioned before how in s1 byler was paralleled to a gay Han/leia while mileven was directly paralleled to luke/leia-mentioned this in the ‘mileven burn’ hyperlink).

All 3 movies have eventual couples arguing cause 1 character (mike) is saying he’s done pretending to be just friends and he came to visit (Will) for that reason. And he knows Will returns those romantic feelings- but Will refuses to stop the charade and admit his true feelings.

In ‘good Will hunting” a similar event happens. Will (yes that’s his name) is poor and has severe trust /psych issues caused by his ab*sive dad. And he has “abandonment issues” so sabotages his romantic relationships before they can even begin. When the brunette admits her feelings for him he dismisses it as a phase/confusion on her part. She in response says she knows he finds the idea she doesn’t love him ‘scary’ (and she’s scared too but at least she’s trying and being honest about her feelings). She also says she wants to “help him” with his issues -but this just angers him more. Cause he doesn’t liked being pitied/treated like he’s broken . She says she wants to help because she loves him- not pity. But he doesn’t believe her romantic confession. And every time she says she loves him he yells “Don’t BULLSHIT ME”! So when she yells “say you don’t love me?” He says he doesn’t love her- which the audience knows is a lie. But she’s left a sobbing mess alone on the floor.

Which yikes- I feel like even if you don’t understand the obvious reasons Mike used El as a beard + lied saying he loved her. You’ll feel bad at the possibility of how badly it blows up in his face. Will not believing his confession/thinking Mike loves El or scared he’ll change his mind -so Will (for that + a myriad of other reasons)just rejects Mike COLD. Similar to clueless & Emma & empire strikes back.

I’m not that surprised since Will claimed he’d never fall in love (so when he does - he may just deny it). Like the therapist said in ‘good will hunting’ he’s afraid it’ll go wrong so never even tries to begin a romance. I hypothesize a lot of stuff happens after this, that makes getting closure on their relationship in s4 difficult.

So essentially to summarize a rough idea of what may happen: mileven stayed broken up. Mike and Will probably exchange letters between seasons. And El and Mike call eachother- but the excess of calls becomes too much. Mike and Will are probably bullied for being perceived as gay- and before meeting up they may or may not confide in someone (about their mutual feelings). Mike visits for Will’s b-day/spring break and gives Will a present. El (because she sees Mike as a source of comfort) tries getting back together with him and becomes pushy and a 3rd wheel. While Will even helps El- thinking he’s being a good friend to Mike (by trying to get them back together). Mike eventually comes clean and come to an understanding and El goes on her plot/character driven arc of trying to find Brenner with Kali. Mike eventually confesses to Will but Will for a myriad of reasons lies about loving Mike- and rejects him. And that’s all the (non supernatural) plot stuff I wan’t to talk about now...

Sorry, if this post was just hard to understand. I wouldn’t call this a ‘theory’ per say ( I usually feel more confident in those). This is more like a rough idea given what we have available to analyze so far.

Personally - I hated the mileven/couple breakup drama in s3. So as long as it doesn’t last long and most breakups like say-lumax and jancy happen early in the season... and don’t drag the actual supernatural plot/character developement . I’ll be fine.

Contrary to popular belief- I’m a byler shipper who’s most excited for the actual plot. I’m a bit more confident in my plot theories than the exact details in this post . But I thought I’d share XD. I’ll eventually do a whole s4/5 theory- post which will focus on other characters/supernatural plot points.(but i may rewatch some movies first) . I’ll probably also do a byler post too with s5 predictions (which connects more heavily to important plot points spanning across s4-5).

Happy belated new year :)

I expect so much hate from this XD

#byler #byeler #mike wheeler #will byers

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