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#Illya is problematic
dopplerdora · 7 months
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People are talking about Heaven's Feel again.
Don't get me wrong, I likes the movies but... they could have been so much more.
Part of the problem is that as a story Heaven's Feel is ment to come after you do Fate and Bladeworks. The prior routes frame Heaven's Feel in a way that show the "point".
By the climax of Heaven's Feel Shirou's "team" has more power than in either other Route. Shirou has Archer Arm, Rin has the Jewel Sword and hasn't needed to use her Chrest to make a Pass for Shirou, Rider isn't Saber but she has Infinite Energy from Sakura, they even have Illya on their side. All this power, power and knowledge that could shake the world of Magi like never before honestly. All that power... and it doesn't mean a damn thing.
Because Power can't help Sakura, no amount of Power can help the one person they want to help. This isn't Fate; Shirou can't just project Caliburn, make a promise, and go be a hero. This isn't Bladeworks; Shirou can't just keep moving with his ideal, show his resolve through combat, and learn how to move forward. Rin can't just Blast the threat away with raw power. This is Heaven's Feel; Shirou's idea is worse than nothing because the "enemy" is his Family. Rin has the ultimate weapon for blasting away her problems... but the problem is her little sister. The world will end, to end thing Somebody Has To Die. Gilgamesh dies but that makes things worse, Zouken dies but that doesn't fix anything, and deleting Saber doesn't actually fix the problem. Because ether problem is years of torture and abuse, you can't fix something like that by punching the monster after the fact.
Heaven's Feel isn't about power, this is problematic because the movie didn't get that memo when animating it. The fights are beautiful, this doesn't in any way help the story telling outside of Rin's fight with Sakura which is more about Rin's internal conflict anyway. It hurts the story because the fighting takes up so much time that some of the characters don't get to show their parts properly... Also its way more Shirou than anybody else, this is a problem because Heaven's Feel has somewhere between Three and Five protagonists and Shirou is only one of them. That said if I go into how sombody in charge seems to hate woman as characters and seems to... think badly of sexual abuse survivors I would probably be here all day and also fail because it would start going into misogyny in Japanese culture and a bunch of other things.
To digress Heaven's Feel is a beautiful, painful, amazing story. The Heaven's Feel movie isn't bad but I feel like is didn't really read the assignment and tried to make an action flick.
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mr-up-on-a-downer · 7 months
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and you know I’m not gonna be like “if you like fanservice heavy or media with dark/edgy/problematic themes you should fix your life” cause there’s a bit of stuff I like that I can’t easily recommend to some people without huge asterisks. Yeah Gunbuster is one of the all time great mecha animes and it made me cry but fuck if it ain’t horny as hell with its majority teenage female cast and I fucking love chainsaw man but oh boy that gets heavy for a shonen manga in ways that are really relevant to real life in the modern day.
but like, there’s nothing defensible about lolicon stuff. Im sure oath under snow is a great movie but I am not touching prism illya with a 6ft pole. Nah y’all can have that.
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magicalgirlagency · 1 year
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I don't get it, isn't PreCure supposed to be a show aimed at children? Why would you want them to touch upon these mature topics?
Yes, it is aimed for children. However, children aren't dumb and entertainment aimed at them shouldn't be taken so lightly.
I would've expected all of that p*do bullshit to happen in a seinen Magical Girl series, like Prisma Illya or something... not on a standard Magical Girl series from a recognizable company. Toei should at least have some decency.
"Chill out, it's just an anime!", you may say, but Toei Animation was the one who paired up minor-aged girls with older men, so I suggest that you direct your complaints at the company, not me. If this is the path we're taking, these mature topics should be addressed with the nuance and seriousness that they deserve, for they aren't your average crisis of the day/week that can be easily solved with the Power of Love & Friendship. Things like p*dophilia and power imbalance cannot and should not be romanticized. Don't sugarcoat that shit.
Just because Sailor Moon has done it and was a success, that doesn't mean it'll work now. These are different times, and people know better now.
Hell, even Tokyo MewMew New seems to acknowledge how unhealthy Ichigo and Quiche are as a couple.
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Look at how poor Ichigo struggles when she's at his mercy. Quiche's gestures are clearly unwanted. I sincerely hope to see Zakuro obliterate his twinky elvish-alien ass in Full 4k HD 1080p when Season Two airs.
If you want a better alternative, I strongly recommend @rockybloo's Glitter & Guilt. At least the heroine and the bad boy have a history together, and are on the same page about their relationship (though it's hella ironic, since the author was heavily inspired by Ichigo and Quiche...)
And the thing is that PreCure has the capacity to touch upon these things. Mind you, the first season of the new decade, Healin' Good PreCure, involves a chronically ill pink lead prioritizing her well-being and outright refusing to help a villain who has done nothing but gaslight her and take advantage of her kindness. She says "no", sticks to her word, defeats the villain, and the narrative doesn't paint her as any less of a hero for it.
Imagine the many possibilities that can be explored with a PreCure season aimed for adults. Adult animation is often reduced to either sensacionalistic violence or doom 'n gloom, often paired up with mediocre designs, subpar animation and tropes that have aged like milk. Its audience is rarely allowed to have fun with something colorful and vibrant.
Not to mention that the IP is now 20 years old, its audience has grown with it. If Ojamajo Doremi could have an OVA with adult protagonists, then why not Pretty Cure*?
Personally, I highly doubt that they'll ever change the endings for these problematic seasons (I mean, Japan has a deep-rooted problem with l*licon/sh*tacon), so this is all wishful thinking. I'd prefer an animated adaptation of MagiLumiere instead of an existing IP that isn't popular on the West, but we all can't have whatever we want unfortunately.
The Pretty Cure will have to do for now, I guess. And I'll have no other choice but to keep my expectations low, to avoid being disappointed in the long run. I can't handle any more disappointments in my life...
*I mean, Sailor Moon's reaching its endgame in June of this year; Toei should start focusing on their other Magical Girl IPs and advertise them properly to the West.
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We're going to ignore the fact that I'm bad with names.
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tainbocuailnge · 2 years
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okay im like. actually curious about anime girl arthuriana. youre the only person ive ever seen posting abt it and you told me abt it once and like.... i kind of Have To Watch It.. do you know where i can find it. also is it like good in a bad way OR is it bad in a good way. should i watch it
well as I have personally been an avid fan of anime girl king arthur for 10 years now obviously I think it's good in a good way. however it has a lot of what is most aptly described as "anime fanservice" baked into the series roots, and a quick look through your blog archive suggests that you don't have a lot of anime exposure, so I can't really say how easily you'll be able to like... look past some of the more distasteful elements of the genre. arthuriana itself is also weird and horny and ~problematic~ though so i'm not saying this because I think you can't stomach it I just feel the need to add a disclaimer because fate/series started with a porn game and never really let go of those roots it just also has bonkers lore. personally i think the good is so good that it more than overshadows the bad and you should definitely give it a try
fate/ is also a bit of an odd series in that translation projects for it are under some kind of curse so despite it's immense overseas popularity a lot of it never gets localised, or gets bad localisations, or fan translation projects for it drop halfway through, or turn out to have been partially machine translated, and so on. I'm sure this is a struggle arturiana can relate to lol. as a result for a lot of fate/ content you have no choice but to pirate it if you want to read or play it at all. there are a lot and i mean a Lot of different entries but individual entries of it are often pretty loosely connected so there's not really a fixed reading order, just a few sets of entries that are directly connected and the rest tends to follow in themes more than setting, and later entries tend to assume you already know how the magic shit works so it stops explaining it. this is also very arturiana of it.
the easiest way to test the waters and see if you'll enjoy fate/ is to watch the anime "Fate/Stay Night [Unlimited Blade Works]". this is an adaption of the second route of the original game, as such it is missing a bit of context from the first route but it should still be easy enough to understand and it's imo a good representation for the overall vibes of the series (both good and occasional bad). last I checked it's available to watch on crunchyroll and netflix. after Unlimited Blade Works comes the movie trilogy "Heaven's Feel", which adapts the third and final route. alternatively you can watch "Fate/Zero" instead, which is on the same streaming platforms. Fate/Zero is the prequel to Fate/Stay Night and has a darker and edgier tone to it which may or may not be up your alley. both of them feature the original anime girl king arthur as one of the protagonists so they're good to see if you'll like her as well
there's a bunch of other fate/ anime on netflix, but none of them are good introductory points. the "Fate/Apocrypha" anime is a notoriously bad adaption, and if you're interested in that one I strongly strongly suggest looking for the manga adaption instead (Apocrypha is particularly cursed, the original novels never finished fantranslation and the manga is still ongoing so the shitty anime adaption is the only way to get the full story in english currently). the "Fate/EXTRA Last Encore" anime is a kind of spinoff slash alternate ending to the PSP game "Fate/EXTRA" and is likely to be incomprehensible without playing that one first (which i recommend because it's a personal favourite). the "Fate/Grand Order" anime are probably fine to watch after Stay Night, just be aware that they're pretty mediocre as adaptions and take place a good chunk into the story of the game with the same name so you're missing a lot of buildup. the "Fate/Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya" anime are unapologetic pedobait and not worth the trouble
if you like the Stay Night anime I would suggest reading the visual novel as a next step! as said before the original has three routes, and it's actually the first one that hasn't been adapted properly that focuses the most on anime girl king arthur's character. in this post I explain how to get the game. the nature of animated adaptions is also that they can't possibly convey everything in the original text, so even after watching the adaptions the visual novel will still offer a lot of fresh material.
another good next step is to pick up the mobile game Fate/Grand Order, it's the current flagship title of the series and is still ongoing. it's a gacha game (i don't know if that means anything to you. it's got glorified gambling basically. think fortnite lootboxes but for playable characters) so you might not want to touch it but I like the gameplay and story a lot so I'm still going to suggest it because it has a shitton of round table figures as playable characters and they feature heavily in parts of the main story as well. if you don't want to engage with gambling mechanics you can easily look up the story on youtube instead
i could go on for a lot longer because there simply is a lot of it lol but i think this is already more info than you really need to get started and if you have more questions I'll gladly answer them. I hope you enjoy it!
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studentofetherium · 2 years
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Illya would be problematic...
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hopeymchope · 2 years
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Initial Reaction When I Saw HiDive Post About This: OH SHIT I didn’t even realize that movie came out already! You mean to tell me this hit Japan last year? And THIS is the first I heard of it?!?!
Next Thought: Been a long time since the last season but at least now Illya and Rin and Bazett and those other characters I don’t care about can leave this cursed alternate universe and return to their home dimension!
After Watching the Movie:
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Seriously? If we were gonna do this, couldn’t you have just produced another regular-ass season?!
BEFORE ANYONE SAYS IT: Yes, I know how problematic this series is. I knooooooow.
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abyssalpen · 7 months
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I'm not exactly big enough to do a poll on here, I think, but I sometimes wonder if the creators of the Fate franchise weren't the smartest creators for choosing to make everything canon.
Like, the series has some hella problematic parts to it, which has definitely swayed some people away from it (looking at literally ALL OF YOU, Prisma Illya Series), but then there's some really cool parts, some really tender parts, and some really juicy parts sprinkled in there. By making everything canon, they removed one of the biggest issues in fandom, but they also made a series where everyone is scared to get involved because of the mountain of content.
So, take it from me, someone that partakes of Fate rather selectively, you don't HAVE TO watch/play everything involving Fate. Just find the stuff you are interested in, and leave the rest. There's nothing wrong with dropping a show if it doesn't match your vibe.
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Okay, I just have to say it. One of my LEAST favorite headcanons is that Illya is just seconds away from defecting. It bothers me for a variety of reasons and I’ll ATTEMPT to detail a few in this post (this is very, VERY long omg this is why I usually post things on my phone because using the stupid iPhone pad limits the amount of words I have the patience to type):
1) A man who has dedicated his LIFE to upholding a system isn’t going to just throw it away willy-nilly because he spends a couple weeks abroad. A man who has spent his life trying to prove his loyalty through military and civic service isn’t going to just go “oh nevermind” and drop it. You had KGB sleeper agents who spent their entire lives in the US who never “gave in” and held onto their ideals. I’m not going to go into the history of Communism’s crimes (believe me, I know, just providing an alternate–if flawed–view), but many people in the 60′s (probably including Illya) believed that this was a time of “growing pains,” that this was only temporary, that a new worldwide utopia of peace and prosperity and equality was upon them. They rationalized that they had things like universal healthcare (ILLYA AND GABY WOULD BE USED TO FREE BIRTH CONTROL JSYK) and support for single mothers and the elderly, homelessness was almost unheard of, scientific advancement was keeping pace with the US, there was a sense of innocence and camaraderie that many people look back to with nostalgia, and at the time, many people thought of the government had their best interests at heart, kind of like a parent “keeping them safe” (and Illya probably would have thought of himself as being a part of this–like, lol, a “big brother” to his younger siblings).
I mean…. I’m hardly saying it was ideal and no one has to tell ME about the wide-spread issues, but the 60′s were the period of openness and transparency and a revealing and rejection of the horrors of Stalinism. It was a new era, quality of life in the USSR was improving, and things were looking up in general. And this is the Russia that I think Illya would see. 
2) A man like Illya’s heart beats for his country, he would DIE to protect it (Americans in particular don’t understand because in regards to our country, many of us can just take it or leave it–and in recent times, it’s much more likely to express either indifference or hatred toward it–the level of devotion to their country that many Russians have is something that the average American just can’t understand). The Motherland is his first love to the point that choosing between it an Gaby might not end up in Gaby’s favor. I tend to avoid this scenario for this very reason but also because I think if she loves him she won’t ask him make this choice.
3) People assume that Russia has nothing for Illya, that he lives in some muddy, freezing hellhole without any friends (nothing suggests that he’s friendless–he’s moody and introverted but he’s also under a lot of stress in enemy territory working with someone who typifies everything he hates) or family (what happened to all his extended family? aunts? uncles? grandparents?), that all his bosses all regularly treat him like dirt (true, the KGB wasn’t exactly friendly, but uh, Illya is the KGB), and that Russia is just a shitty place to be in general and anyone in their right mind would want to leave ASAP. (See point #1)
4) Aside from Oleg threatening him, there’s nothing that suggests that Illya is dissatisfied with his career, one that seems to be going very, very well for him.
5) It’s super insulting to Russians to imply “well, clearly anyone with a brain would join US/NATO, the superior country.”
6) Illya is aware of the “glitz and glamour” of the West, and he has no problem tapping into it when the mission calls for it (Gaby’s suuuper expensive wardrobe–also interesting because yes, I know it was a nod to TV Illya being a fashion designer, but it suggests that the mission comes before ideology), but he himself doesn’t buy into it (see: his own clothing– and I will DIE ON THE HILL of Illya being a sensible but fashionable character, I mean, look at how many guys are sporting black turtlenecks and blazers now, eh? eh?).                                     
7) The whole POINT of U.N.C.L.E. is to join equals from all over the world, to join opposing viewpoints, to rise above politics. This whole thing doesn’t work (and proves U.N.C.L.E. to be dangerous and biased) if it favors one ideology over another. Imagine the beauty of a Christian agent and a Muslim agent working together to defeat terrorism and everyone wants one to convert to the other’s religion and you see the issue…
I like to think that them burning the disk is the final test–can they put their individual countries’ interests aside for the greater good? Again, we expect the American to make the right decision (because Americans are always good, right?) but I was grinning ear to ear when I saw that the Russian did too, which is why it bothers me when people explain it away as some kind of blooming romance between the two. Don't take this SUPER rare portrayal of a Russian being a morally decent human being (and the American is a self-obsessed thief? who shows signs of prejudice and ignorance of other cultures??? say whaaaaat…) in a Hollywood film away from us!!!
Anyway, just my uh two cents. I think that if Illya were ever to defect, it would be during the corruption of the late 80′s, and that’s ONLY if he feels that he could better serve his country from without rather than within. I think Illya is incorruptible and if the system ever failed him irreparably, THEN he’d try to find other options, but Russia would remain his love. 
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cha-melodius · 2 years
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Hi! How about the last trope from the list for Napollya (the one about: I'm scared but I won't admit it, so you take my hand). I first imagined it in a setting where Gaby shot at a mission and they are waiting for the results of the surgery, but feel totally free to use a different scenario. Your writing is so awesome I'd probably read anything you'd write.
(Hello anon, thank you for the prompt! I absolutely went for your scenario for this, it was a great setup. This is early post-canon, and includes Napollya but is also focused quite a bit on the team as a family, which felt right since Gaby is the catalyst. This one ran about 1.7k. I really hope you enjoy it!)
Cold Hands, Warm Heart
Read it on AO3
“Cowboy. Stop pacing.”
“I’m not—” Napoleon starts, then re-evaluates. 
Ok, maybe he’s pacing. He’s just restless, is all. Too much time in one spot. Too much waiting. He’s still jumped up on adrenaline and unused to sitting around. They should be back out there, chasing down leads, not sitting in a hospital waiting room. Sanders would have sent him back out already. Well, Sanders would have never sent him out with the same partners so many times in a row. Better off if they didn’t know each other that well, he’d said.
Napoleon hates that his asshole boss might have had a point. He doesn’t know what to do with this twisting in his gut, this clenching in his chest, this concern for someone he should only have a working relationship with. It shouldn’t be a surprise, after what happened on that hillside in Italy, when he’d seen her limp body in the upside-down Jeep. He’d felt the clenching then, too, even though they hardly knew each other, even though her betrayal only hours before had nearly meant his own death. There’s no reason to think it wouldn’t be worse now, after they’ve spent the better part of a month together. He wonders if this is what it feels like to have a little sister, someone who can manage to inspire annoyance and delight and fierce protectiveness all at once.
It isn’t right. He works better alone, and this is one of the reasons why. No chance of getting attached to people he shouldn’t be getting attached to.
Speaking of… Illya cocks an eyebrow at him, then gestures wordlessly to the adjacent chair with a nod of his head. Of course, Napoleon’s first instinct is to refuse, because the last thing he needs is to indulge in his currently most problematic attachment issue, but the look on Illya’s face suggests he’s considering tying Napoleon down if he doesn’t stop (which is both an alluring and completely inappropriate notion). So Napoleon sits, stiffly and on the edge of the hard hospital chair, ready to spring up at a moment’s notice.
“You are worried about her,” Illya says, regarding him with a level gaze.
It’s too knowing, that look, at once terrifying and terribly enticing. No living person really knows Napoleon, entirely by design. It’s better that way. He can’t be hurt, that way. There is too much power in that knowledge. Letting someone in—letting Illya in—isn’t just dangerous. It’s stupid. (He fears that it might be already too late.)
Instead of meeting his eyes, Napoleon stares fixedly at the far wall. “I’m just… antsy. I don’t like sitting around.”
“Worried,” Illya repeats stubbornly. Reaching across the narrow space between them, he pries one of Napoleon’s hands from its death grip around his thigh and carefully laces their fingers together. “It’s ok.”
“How are you not?” Napoleon counters, finally turning toward him with a huff. He should pull away from the hand holding for myriad reasons. He doesn’t.
“We arrived in time. She is strong. She will be fine,” Illya says. The confidence in his voice is not exactly reassuring, but it does go a ways to settle something that’s been jittering about in Napoleon’s chest ever since he’d watched her get shot. “Also, I am worried, Cowboy.”
“That why you’re holding my hand?” Napoleon teases, aiming for a levity he doesn’t feel. “Your hands are freezing, by the way.”
Illya just squeezes his hand. “Would it make you feel better if I said yes?”
Napoleon stares at him and wishes desperately that he knew what all this was. For all his discomfort over his emotions about Gaby, the tangled web of feelings that Illya occupies is infinitely worse. Or, maybe not worse, but certainly more complicated. He supposes that’s what you get for sleeping with your partner, who you have to work with every day, who the world says should be your enemy but turned out to be, decidedly, not. Sometimes it seems like it’s only sex, and he tells himself it’s better that way. Just an agreement between friends that offers a way to avoid involving civilians when they need a release. But then there are times like this, when Illya looks at him with aching tenderness, and he lets himself believe, if only for a moment, that it could be more.
Which is absurd. People like them don’t get more. Napoleon has always gotten along fine without more, and he certainly doesn’t need it now. Plus, there’s that whole knowing him thing that still lodges in his throat whenever he thinks about it too hard. That doesn’t stop the conflict between what he should want and what he does want from slowly tearing him apart. Maybe it would help to talk about whatever this is between them, but, by a mutual, unspoken agreement, they don’t.
“It doesn’t bother you? The… attachments?” Napoleon asks, pushing the limits of that agreement. It’s only after he’s said it that he realizes that Illya might take it as a slight, or some sign that he was troubled by their arrangement. “I didn’t mean—”
“I know what you meant,” Illya cuts him off. Of course, Napoleon should have figured something similar was going through his own head. Illya sighs, and his thumb begins rubbing absently across the back of his hand. “All my time as a spy, I have been told attachments are dangerous.”
“And you’ve been a spy long enough to know it’s the truth.”
“Is it?” Illya asks, barely above a whisper. For the first time since they started this conversation, he doesn’t sound so sure of himself. He bows his head, and though there’s no obvious sign of it, somehow Napoleon knows he’s staring at their linked hands. “Or is that just what they want us to believe, so that we have nothing else besides the state?”
“Careful, Peril. Don’t think your handlers would like you talking like that,” Napoleon says. He pitches it like it’s a joke, though it’s anything but—as much a warning to himself as it is to Illya. Your handlers, he says, not ours; well, he has a suspicion that Waverly wouldn’t disagree with Illya. Their temporary handler is sometimes a bit of an odd duck, in the world of espionage. That’s all this is, though, temporary, and neither of them are free. They belong to those who would use these attachments to destroy them, if it suited the state. If they became more trouble than they’re worth.
“Good thing they are not here, then,” Illya returns wryly.
There’s an odd look on his face as he reaches up to push a stray lock of hair off Napoleon’s forehead, his hand sliding down to linger on his cheek, and Napoleon abruptly realizes that they’re alone in the waiting room. He thinks, absurdly, that Illya is going to kiss him, right here in the hospital, where anyone could walk in. He tries not to think about how badly he wants him to.
“I believed I worked better alone,” Illya says instead, his eyes sweeping downward. “That I had to be alone. Now I know that was a lie. We are a team, Cowboy. We all make each other better.”
Napoleon wants to flee, not because this feels wrong, but because it feels so right. “Now I definitely know you’re going soft, Peril,” he says, grinning, because it’s easier than admitting the truth of Illya’s words. Jokes, jokes, always jokes; he wears his flippancy like armor, retreats behind it like the walls of a fortress. Some days, it seems like Illya and Gaby are the only ones who can draw him out again. For the moment, though, Illya lets him hide.
“I am still better spy than you,” he retorts, his lips tipping into an answering smirk.
“I thought we all made each other better,” Napoleon counters.
“Yes,” Illya confirms, his face the picture of earnestness. “I have learned much from Gaby.”
Napoleon laughs, loose and unfettered, and for a brief moment he feels impossibly lighter, until he remembers why they’re sitting there. “You really think she’ll be ok?”
“I know it.”
Illya squeezes his hand again, and Napoleon nearly gives in to the impulse to lean his head on Illya’s shoulder, to let his partner wrap him up in one of those Illya-sized hugs, public hospital waiting room be damned. As it is, he’s sufficiently lost in Illya’s eyes that he doesn’t realized they’ve gained an audience.
“Gentlemen,” Waverly says, clearing his throat.
Napoleon immediately tries to jerk away, but Illya doesn’t let go of his hand, instead clamping down hard enough that Napoleon feels his metacarpals grind together. Apparently he wasn’t even aware he was doing it, because when Napoleon shoots him a look pointed look he lets his grip go slack, a sheepish look flit across his face. Napoleon shakes out his crushed hand, unable to decide whether he finds the whole situation more endearing or annoying.
Waverly’s expression is—no surprises—carefully composed, though Napoleon could swear he sees a trace of amusement flicker in his eyes for a brief moment. “Miss Teller is out of surgery and doing well,” he announces. “She is still unconscious, but the anesthesia should wear off soon, and I’ve ascertained that you both can wait in her room”—he pauses, and the corner of his mouth twitches—“if you like.”
Illya is already on his feet, and Napoleon isn’t far behind. “She’s going to be ok?” Napoleon asks, painfully aware of how tight his own voice sounds.
“They expect her to make a full recovery,” Waverly assures them. “She’ll be back on her feet before you know it.”
Napoleon doesn’t think too hard about the sheer, immense relief that floods through him as he lets Illya drag him down the hallway toward Gaby’s room, but just now, he doesn’t try to deny what’s behind it either. Maybe Illya is onto something. Maybe this team—this family, a small, seductive voice in his head whispers—is more than just a liability.
Maybe, in time, he’ll be able to let himself believe it, too.
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shuttershocky · 3 years
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If you could make a trigger warning list for Tsukihime, what would be on it? There's a lot of people who are just getting interested in it with the remake (myself included) and I think having a tw list would be a really nice thing for those getting in now. If you can't remember every scene, a general list is good enough!
Oh boy.
Ohhhhhhhh boyyyyyyyyy.
Alright. So. A little bit of explanation: there's a reason why Nasu actually wants to remake this game. Tsukihime is by miles his darkest and most brutal work, and a lot of it is completely unnecessary edginess made by poor and almost literally starving Nasu and Takeuchi. Kara No Kyoukai wasn't exactly making waves, and the two were living on cup noodles and working other jobs to keep themselves afloat. To finish the VN Takeuchi even made Nasu quit his job and worked two in his stead (biking home in-between said jobs to do art) just so Nasu would have time to write. The nastiness of what they felt at the time is everywhere in the script, and it speaks to Nasu's talent that what came out wasn't complete edgelord garbage.
Did you ever read the original Fate/Stay Night? Did you get taken abrupt when Illya and Berserker first attack Shirou, Rin, and Saber, and Illya orders Berserker to behead Saber and rape the corpse so that Saber would rather die than continue to regenerate and fight? Did you think that kinda came out of nowhere and was unnecessary? The Realta Nua rerelease didn't just remove all the bad sex scenes, they removed lines like those entirely.
Tsukihime has waaaaaaaay more of that, and unlike Fate/Stay Night it couldn't easily edit all of them out and get rereleased without changing the story. It needed to be rebuilt from the ground up.
Personally, I've been so excited for the remake because Nasu has expressed regret before on how misogynistic his writing was before. Specifically he was asked in an interview about his focus on female characters in his works and he something like "I've been told before 'Nasu respects womens rights' because of all the powerful girls in my works, but looking back I can clearly see my own prejudices" especially singling out how Shirou treated Saber in the Fate route and how Tohno Shiki needed to get uppercut by Arcueid. I'm far more excited to see how Nasu will approach Tsukihime with that hindsight in mind more than I am about the visual and music upgrades the VN will get. I don't think Nasu wants to (or even should) remove all the problematic content of the original Tsukihime as this IS a work of horror, but a lot of editing would greatly improve the script.
Releasing Tsukihime R on PS4 isn't just a message of a console release, it's a sign that things will be different this time due to Sony's strict rules (that do not apply to its first party games apparently).
With that being said, a general trigger warning list from memory:
1.) There is a LOT of rape and sexual assault. Mentions of the act, internal narration from characters witnessing or attempting to find someone to rape, Shiki can straight up rape two of the girls on two seperate routes if he makes the wrong choice (he will be killed the day after). There's also a line where Shiki tells Ciel that if she doesn't do what he says, he'll rape her. The context there is that he's extremely weak and she can snap him like a twig so he just shouts the most hurtful thing he can think of, but it's still dumb. If I remember correctly, there's a choice that makes Shiki sexually assault Hisui and it DOESNT lead to a dead end, with most guides recommending that choice to get the CGs. I got annoyed and that's when I made my own guide for the route.
2.) Unknown to Shiki, his family's bloodline carries a powerful violent impulse to kill any non-human they see, strong enough to temporarily take over their wills and delight in murder by conflating it with sexual pleasure. The first time Shiki sees Arcueid, he falls into a trance and stalks her back home before brutally cutting her up into 17 pieces and experiences multiple orgasms while doing so. He then comes to his senses and starts vomiting and crying from what he just did and the shame of how much he enjoyed doing it. They're not taking this scene out (It's in the remake PV) but I'm preeeettyyyy sure Shiki's narration won't suddenly talk about how much his dick is loving this.
3.) Incest. Akiha is Shiki's sister. She's also a romantic interest. Technically they're adopted so it's not incest and they haven't seen each other in 8 years so it's not like they grew up together the whole time, but any tine you got to say "technically it's not incest", it's not great. I heavily doubt this is getting removed from the Remake as it's, you know, a whole route. On the other hand, Akiha has a biological brother, and he is creepy about her so that's 100% guaranteed ick right there, but fortunately he never goes far enough that you can tell if he's a sicko or if he's just really possessive of his sister.
4.) Kohaku's backstory. Koha-Ace once joked that this is the true reason the Remake took so long. It forms the backbone of Tsukihime and one of the main threads that ties everything together, but also Kohaku is the middle link between Fujino and Sakura. You can guess what that means.
5.) Heavy gaslighting, heavier drugs. Both Shiki's past and his present in the far side routes involve an almost hilarious relationship to the truth. Everyfuckingbody is lying to Shiki, and his father literally gaslights him with magic by using hypnosis to conveniently erase some traumatic memories that the old man is responsible for and replace them with falsehoods. Shiki nonchalantly talks about his terrible memory when it comes to his childhood throughout the VN, but the actual reason for that is that he got gaslit to hell and back. In the present, Shiki gets drugged out of his mind by someone in his house, and experiences long and detailed hallucinations, all the while being told by his family that nothing is going on. It becomes difficult to tell what's really going on; if he's really walking around town or if he's in bed babbling at the ceiling. It is terrifying and is a part of what gives the Far Side routes great psychological horror, but it still deserves a TW.
6.) Suicide. At least one character kills themselves onscreen.
7.) Torture. In the Ciel route, Roa tortures someone by repeatedly and slowly stabbing blades into them while Shiki is forced to watch. It goes on for a while.
8.) Grooming. This particular bit isn't a part of the Tsukihime VN itself, but more of a fandom joke thanks to Carnival Phantasm. A big part of Shiki's backstory is meeting the mage Aozaki Aoko as an 8 year old and her teaching him about life in the short time they have together. Due to Shiki's nature he almost certainly would have become an evil person, but meeting Aoko instilled a moral compass in him that is the only thing he has to fight his impulses, which is why Shiki loves his sensei so dearly. Melty Blood later made a joke that Aoko is mad she never got a route in Tsukihime, and Carnival Phantasm later had a whole scene stating the real reason Aoko cared for Shiki was that she was grooming him to be her boyfriend as soon as he turned of age. It's super gross and a perversion of what is literally the sole wholesome relationship Shiki has and the only reason there is any good in him at all. I really fucking hate this joke among all others in the Tsukihime fandom.
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personatrash · 2 years
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Fate's child servants are such a difficult thing for me to "pick a side" on because I have feelings about each one for different reasons. (This one is gonna be a bit long, I'm afraid)
Jack: adorable character, extremely creative to incorporate the supernatural belief about Jack the Ripper's identity being the vengeful souls of dead children, but you put her in a thong & ruined it. Why
Nursery Rhyme: I actually have no problems with Nursery rhyme. She's not dressed inappropriately, she doesn't say inappropriate things for a child, has a childlike sense of wonderment & makes sense because of how she came into being in EXTRA
Paris: a stupid little idiot moron baby (affectionate). I want to adopt him as my son & keep Apollo way the hell away from him. He's precious but needs to be put in time out for kidnapping Helen. Justifying him being a child by saying Apollo likes him better that way makes the god a creep (which he kind of is) (& his designer to a degree). I don't exactly have a problem with him dressing so feminine I do too if I feel like it, I wouldn't ban my own son from dressing how they want & Paris has often been depicted as more of a feminine man, but maybe pull back around the shoulder area looks a bit too much like lingerie
Gily: seems kinda unnecessary, but he's cute & isn't problematic like Jack so eh I kinda forget he exists until I pull him on friend banner & I'm like "oh yeah, Gil Lily exists"
Alexander: Make him an adult & his design is 10/10 better than Iskandar because it's more truthful to what Alexander the Great looked like in proper history given historical records. Keep him as a kid & it seems a bit sexualized. A child showing skin is more off-putting than an adult showing it
Kama: she grows into an adult one stage later so she's not really a child servant for long just any% speedrun her to stage 2
Chloe: get out. No. Bad. Miyu & Illya can stay if they want but they have to cover up. No loli bait magical girl costumes Chloe better get back to her pervert loli anime though
Abigail: same as Nursery Rhyme except she's spooky this time
Ana: baby & can stay as long as she wants
Altera Larva: also baby & can stay
Hans: like, is he? Idk. Like, he's clearly an adult, but he looks like a child because of Innocent Monster
Jalter Santa Lily: Santa should not be in a training bra & a skirt. Put something on before you catch cold young lady
Leo Rider: was there a real reason for making mama Leo into a loli or are we just catering to a certain demographic
Paul Bunyan: absolutely no problems until stage three. Just stop at stage two please
Sitonai: it's just illya & she's dressed properly. No real complai- what the fuck is stage 4? No what the fuck. Is stage 4
Setanta: he's in arcade so I don't really have much reason to bring him up other than to say hes a cutie pie
Voyager: baby
Wu Zetian: no fuck you. Stage one was pushing it, but ok enough to just get side-eyed but no uproar stage 2 & beyond is just gross & one of fate/go's biggest problems
& the obligatory Mother Harlot: the biggest WHY! in all of fate. You gave the WHORE of Babylon the body of a child. Why? Nero is short, yeah, but she's clearly an adult with a mature adult body. Could they not do what SMT did & kinda be faithful to historical depictions with their own stylized twist? Like having her look like a mature woman who's still recognizable as Nero riding the beast side-saddle in an outfit that Nero would approve of? Or is that just too much. Fuck
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rougeagainstfanpol · 3 years
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2, 7, 10, 15 for the problem ships!
2) what is your favorite “problematic” polyship (ot3, ot4, so on)?
Perhaps it's still Araragi x Senjogahara x Kanbaru from Monotgatari. Kanbaru is a lesbian and loves Senjogahara, and out of servitude to Senjogahara's happiness, will joke about being Araragi's "sex slave" WW
Some would believe it's problematic because a lesbian has to share her love with a guy.
7) what kind of “problematic” tropes you like to put your ships through?
Ah, depending on the ship, I like to explore what would make the ship problematic on the surface. If not, I like to add more problematic things to the characters (like kinks or something) and make them explore it together, or just joke about it!
10) what is your favorite “problematic” fandom?
The Fate series gets a bit of flack for catering to lolishotas. Jack, Alexander, Jeanne Alter Santa Lily, Agartha!Fergus, Illya, Andersen...and not only that, some Heroic Spirits are canon loli/shotacons (Blackbeard and Miyamoto Musashi respectively)
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[From the recent event in FGO, Miyamoto says a line like "I assumed I could take them because they were too old for my tastes"]
Another thing is that some Heroic Spirits are "problematic" by virtue of what they did in history, such as Gilles de Rais and Elizabeth Báthory. There are seriously people in the fandom with DNIs that state if you like certain Servants to not interact.
Before everything I listed here, it all started as an H Visual Novel where you could romance high school students. So I'd say it's pretty problematic!
15) something cool about the last thing you watched/read/listened to!
Oh hey I watched the recent episode of Helluva Boss! There was a song in it, and I noticed the melody of the song afterwards. I always like when shows do that! Musical callbacks make me ache in my heart. Own your compositions! Ahh!
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yudonomi · 2 years
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fate series for the blorbo asks?
blorbo ask meme
Fate
blorbo (favorite character, character I think about the most)
Illyaaaa, as if the fact that shes been in my layout ever since I joined this site an obvious indicator (and I will lament everyday that Die Lorelei never played in the HF films)
scrunkly (my “baby”, character that gives me cuteness aggression, character that is So Shaped)
Actually still Illya but for the sake of not repeating characters I'd say Voyager. Come home satellite bby
scrimblo bimblo (underrated/underappreciated fave)
Someday, the narrative will remember Hisau Maiya but not today
glup shitto (obscure fave, character that can appear in the background for 0.2 seconds and I won’t shut up about it for a week)
Idk if Romani would count as obscure but I'm definitely not shutting up over every crumb of his appearances
poor little meow meow (“problematic”/unpopular/controversial/otherwise pathetic fave)
is Holmes problematic? I didn't like him at first but sussy Ruler has since clawed his way into my heart with that corset (and his pathetic vibes)
horse plinko (character I would torment for fun, for whatever reason)
2013 me made dozens of fics and a good chunk of them were hurt no comforting Kerry (and Emiya fam angst in general)
eeby deeby (character I would send to superhell)
I think Kirei would send himself there anyway
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cantillat-moved · 3 years
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@fakepriest​ 💕kiritsugu 🃏 shirou
ʜᴇᴀᴅᴄᴀɴᴏɴ ᴍᴇᴍᴇs ɪɴsᴘɪʀᴇᴅ ʙʏ ᴛʜɪɴɢs ɪ ʟɪᴋᴇ, ᴘᴀʀᴛ 1.
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[ 💕 ] does your muse believe in true love? do they believe in love at all?
To say that Kiritsugu has a complicated view of love it would be an understatement. Kiritsugu believes that he is cursed to destroy everyone he ever loved.
His mother died when he was very young, and thanks to his father’s Sealing Designation they keep on traveling all across the world until settling at Arimango Island in the Philippines, staying there for a year.  He liked it here, and even developed a crush for an older girl, named Shirley, that became his father’s assistant. Everything was peaceful and life was good, until Shirley drank a concoction made by Emiya Norikata and became a vampire, turning the entire island population into ghouls. After killing his own father, Kiritsugu was taken in by Natalia Kaminski, a freelancer and part-time Enforcer. Following on Natalia’s footsteps, she also became his mother figure and taught him the ways of the world, about magecraft, and how to kill mages. He also had to blow up her plane when a mark became problematic, to prevent a plane full of ghouls and demonic bees reaching New York City. Oh, yeah. It was Mother’s Day too.  And he was barely 18. Fun times. He rescued a child soldier and she called herself Maiya after a fake passport he provided her. Yet Kiritsugu knew that no matter how much he cared for her, he would end up causing her death too.
When he met Irisviel, she was still in her tank, seeing her as an empty doll with no survival skills. Out of spite, old man Acht decided to throw Irisviel away in the disposal yard during a blizzard, with the wolves about and everything. Kiritsugu rushed to her rescue, deciding to teach her about the world and eventually becoming closer. --- yet he knew that every passing day he would become closer to kill her. Every time she smiled was a reminder that one day he would kill the woman he loved, how he had been killing everyone he loves. When Illya was born, Kiritsugu felt that he shouldn’t hold her : she would be ruined by his hands too. He was going to kill her mother, strip away her happiness. And, if he failed, she too would suffer worse than any Einzbern homunculi before her and die alone in a foreign land, far from home.
In the end, he was right: Kiritsugu brought nothing but misery to those he loved. Maiya died because she believed in his dream. He murdered his own wife and was powerless to save his daughter. And his adopted son? The boy that he orphaned and caused so much pain? The boy too is doomed to walk a path of pain to fulfill his ideals, bearing the sins of the father proudly to become a Hero of Justice. Love is nothing but pain for Emiya Kiritsugu.
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[ 🃏 ] how does your muse handle being lied to?
Shirou don’t lie. It is part of him: he can’t bring himself to lie, always transparent and straight-forward. It is how he is. But to be lied to? I’m not talking about white lies (he isn’t capable of these either), but hurtful things. Surely, it upsets him – angers him depending on what it might be, yet there is no point in lingering on it. Only dealing with whatever it may be. Part of him would blame himself for not seeing throughout the falsehoods, vowing to do better next time. And, indeed, the boy eventually grows up to become a cynical person, always suspicious and assuming others have their own agenda. What really gets to him is when people lie to the ones he cares about and hurts them. That WILL get to him .
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mirckel · 3 years
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your fave (illya) is problematic:
causes more bad ends than the other heroines
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