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mrsbsmooth · 4 months

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Suzi, now… before the reveal I NEED you to rank the islanders based on their names and resumes (we mostly have similar opinions Id love to see your prospective)

Oh you NEED it well then okay I guess I gotta do it 😂 y’all wild.

Note: this does NOT indicate which LI I’m going for this season. I’m waiting for the rest of the sprites because I’m ✨ shallow ✨

Anyway, here you go!

(Hope this doesn’t come back to bite me in the ass)

Season 8 islanders ranked worst to best

Based on nothing but their applications

#8 Sports Physio (Jack)

Cyclist. Last place.

#7 Wedding planner (Emel)

Hannah/Juliet hybrid. Thinks she knows everything about love. “Can always tell when a couple aren’t right for each other”, now wouldn’t that be convenient if you’re coupled with someone she wants??? It sucks because she sounds so smart and cultured and I hope she’s nice, but I just have a feeling they’re gonna make her the villain.

#6 Acrobat (Sophie)

She could be interesting, but she’s screaming “I’m quirky! Look at me! Want to watch me do a handstand?” Like come on, at least Rohan had a personality outside of his job. It might end up being endearing like Tim with his rap career but somehow I don’t see it happening. I hope not though because I do so love the Irish.

#5 Cat Cafe Manager (Luna)

Idk what it is about her she just sounds laaaaaaame. And this is coming from someone with a cat who adores them more than life itself. One of those people who makes coffee their whole personality, you know??? I feel like she’s gonna be Thabi from S4 but without the personality quirks that made her unique.

#4 Firefighter (Oakley)

He sounds a little boring but I have a feeling he is going to be like, next level hot. Like NEXT LEVEL hot. I’m immediately picturing Blaze from Love Is Blind (Netflix Game) and if he is I might die. 6’3!?!?!?!? Strong silent type, Jake Wilson-esque, might be our “slow burn” (😏) of the season because I feel like one of the girls is gonna latch her claws into him like that cat he saved and NEVER LET GO.

#3 Underwear Model (Jin)

Don’t get me wrong, he’s gonna be hotter than the sun, but honestly his personality is just boring to me. It might be how it’s written, but the whole “I’m funny because I tell you I’m funny” is getting a bit old. I hope he’s got a serious/romantic side to him (a la Bruno 🥰) otherwise he’s gonna get on my nerves real quick (a la Bryson 🤢).

#2 Dentist (Claudia)

I’ll be honest I’ve already seen her sprite and holy moly mother of Mary she is a STUNNER. I already know MC is gonna have nothing on her, but she’s gonna be stuck in friendship couples for her whole time in the villa because she’s a female LI. This also means she’s probably a bestie option. She seems so smart and funny, and it seems like she doesn’t take things too seriously. She’s gonna be fanfic fodder for sure.

Drumroll:

#1 Travel Photographer (Theo)

Not only is this one of my favourite names, it’s also one of my weaknesses. Greek men. Y’all saw me last season demanding Cassius and it didn’t eventuate so if Theo is as hot as he sounds I might pass away. The reformed player vibe is doing it for me so I’m REALLY looking forward to seeing if he’s all that. If nothing else he sounds like he’s going to be a huge source of entertainment and will probably get himself into a lot of trouble 😂

#I’ve been saying the even numbered seasons are better since s4 watch me prove my theory right #love island game #litg s8 #love island season 8 #love island the game #litg #come on consistent sprites COME ON

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twdmusicboxmystery · 5 years

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AMC/ABC Actor Patterns

Okay, I said I’d get this posted this week. Let me first say that this won’t be terribly ground-breaking. It’s actually just more evidence for something I and many others have pointed out before. But I’ve been thinking about it off and on since Michael Cudlitz’s show—The Kids are Alright—was cancelled.

Quick recap: Many of us thought that the show Emily did a few years ago—Conviction—was kind of suspicious. It was small, produced by ABC (a partner/sister-network of AMC), promoted by AMC and TWD, and only lasted one season. We had lots of reasons it was strange. It seemed like Emily just took a small potatoes roll she and the network knew wouldn’t last, which adds to our theories of her return to TWD.

I most recently talked about this HERE when I pointed out that, just this past season, Lauren Cohen followed a similar pattern. The major difference is that they didn’t try to make us think Maggie was dead. They wrote her out of the show from the second half of the season (Ep 6-16), but just said she’d left, going to another place. So everyone assumed she’d be back.

But in the mean time, Lauren did Whiskey Cavalier. Other than Maggie’s character not having a death fakeout, it followed the exact same template. Lauren did a show that was produced by ABC, promoted by AMC and TWD, and only lasted one season. I thought WC had a better chance of getting picked up for additional seasons than Conviction ever did…but it wasn’t. So it ended up being the same. I saw that as simply being more proof that Emily will return to TWD at some point. And granted, we haven’t technically seen Lauren return yet, but it’s been confirmed that we’ll see her again in S10.

When Michael Cudlitz’s show got cancelled, that was the first time it occurred to me that his show followed this same pattern. Let’s examine the evidence, shall we?

First, let me say that this isn’t a team delusional/he’s really alive theory where Abraham’s character is concerned. I don’t think he survived Negan at all. How could he have? His injury was far and away more deadly and final than Beth’s was. So while I think Beth is alive, Abraham, not so much.

1. During S4 of FTWD, we were introduced to Althea, who used to be an investigative journalist. She takes video of people she meets in the apocalypse. In her collection of tapes, one of them was labelled in a way that suggested it might possibly be of Abraham and Eugene. Michael Cudlitz even commented on this on Twitter.

2. There’s a humorous commercial I remember seeing that features Abraham and Eugene. It’s for one of the TWD games. I haven’t seen it on TV in a while, but it aired long after Abraham’s death. Kinda suspicious. I mean, if we’re suspicious that they still use Beth and Daryl to promote the show, thinking it means that relationship will return at some point, then we have to apply the same thing to Abraham and Eugene. Check it out on YouTube.

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I also think it’s important to point out that most of the deceased characters from TWD are not used this way to promote the show. We don’t see commercials including Bob, Tyrese, or Sasha that are used to promote the show. And similarly, there have been absolutely no whispers or rumors of their return to the show or the spinoff. So we can count on these kinds of promos as being hints of some sort.

3. It’s been said (X) that the new TWD spinoff, which we don’t have a title for yet, may feature the backstories of deceased TWD characters. Of course that could be any deceased character, but the fact is that this makes the idea of Abraham returning—showing his backstory BEFORE he met Glenn in S4—a real possibility.

4. On this last episode of FTWD, Daniel had a cigar very reminiscent of the ones we saw around Abraham, and said a friend told him to save it for when things got better. I thought of Abraham, and given this edit I reposted from @theinfectedtwd (IG) obviously I wasn’t the only one.

Even more “coincidental” (that’s sarcasm) is the fact that the FTWD crew is currently hanging out in Texas. Remember that Abraham and Eugene met and started out in Texas. Houston, if I remember correctly. So the idea of them having once run into Daniel and/or Althea really isn’t far fetched at all.

5. MC just finished up one season of The Kids are Alright, also produced by ABC, also promoted by AMC and TWD, and also only lasting one season. (I was thinking he’d done two seasons of this show. Maybe it’s just because ABC shows have longer seasons of 22-24 episodes, but I thought he’d done 2 seasons. Nope. Only one. Cancelled after that.)

So we’ll have to wait and see how this plays out. But assuming we see a lot of Maggie in TWD S10, and assuming Abraham and Eugene’s backstory shows up in the spinoff, that will now be three mainstream, TWD characters who left the show for a time, did a small-potatoes ABC series that lasted one season, and then returned. Well, I guess two. Beth hasn’t returned yet. But my point is that this is simply more evidence that she will. This is becoming an undeniable pattern.

In fact, if you google this, there’s a LOT of people talking about Abraham’s possible return to the show. Some even claim it’s been concerned, though most of those are clickbait articles, so I wouldn’t take their word until and unless AMC officially confirms it. But at this point, his return is almost a foregone conclusion.

In closing, let me throw one more thing out there. This is 100% my own opinion, based on all my years of research into this stuff, and not something I can prove, but I thought I’d share anyway. In each of these cases, the networks (both ABC and AMC) and the actors and everyone else involved goes into these short-lived ABC series acting like they genuinely believe/hope the series will succeed and be on the air for many seasons.

And of course they do. That’s their job. It’s the actors’ job to promote their shows and the everyone else’s job to be optimistic and gush about how great this series is. Otherwise, no one would watch.

But again, in my humble opinion, I think that’s a little deceptive on their part. I think each of these actors has gone into these ABC series knowing full well that the series won’t last long. Because ABC and AMC are sister companies, they can collaborate and choose to put the actors in the series that are least likely to run for the long term.

That may sound weird, but most networks start a number of new series each season. They use a lot of different variables to determine which ones are more likely to succeed and sink most of their advertising dollars into those ones, more or less ignoring the others. So why do these series if they’re not going to succeed? Because they have to put something on the air and you never know when you might get a runaway hit (like TWD).

So they may ask ABC to cast their actors in the series most likely to only run one season. They may also put into their contracts that, for example, Lauren will be returning to TWD in S10, so if ABC wants to continue Whiskey Cavalier, they’ll have to replace her with another actress.

But I digress.

The details really aren’t terribly important, and I don’t pretend to know the detailed ins and outs of this industry. Truly, I don’t. But I have a basic understanding of how big business works and I’ve been following this franchise closely for more than 4 years now.

I just find it suspicious that, despite how many people loved WC and how critically acclaimed it was, it was still cancelled after one season, and now we’re hearing that Lauren will definitely be in S10 a lot more than she was in S9.

Similarly, we have a lot of hints that Abraham might show up in a new TWD spinoff. It’s in the works and they’re casting for it now. I’m assuming they’ll start filming before too much longer. And suddenly, his show is ending. Which means he’ll be available for filming. Just saying.

One other thing I thought of while writing this. I was going to say that while, yes, we saw several deceased characters in Rick’s hallucination in 9x05, those were small, 5-minute roles. Not the characters returning to some branch of the franchise for an extended amount of time. And that’s true. But it occurred to me that we DO think Beth will return, and we heard her voice, but didn’t see her face. Who else’s voice did we hear? Abraham’s. An interesting parallel, if both of them return to the show in some way. I don’t know if this will end up being a thing—we’ll have to wait and see—but the other voices we heard were Morgan’s (already in another branch of the franchise) and...Lori’s. Interesting.

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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margridarnauds · 5 years

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fandomswillruinmylife replied to your post “grendelsmilf: u know those shows that are so full of potential but...”

Why do you wanna rewrite merlin? I’m on S4E9 (when lancelot comes back from the dead) and it’s good so far (except for Morgana, my baby does not deserve to suffer like this)

Alright, so I’ll TRY not to spoil you too much.

For me, personally, the show never lived up to its premise, nor did it really....have a consistent view on its own morality? It’s generally acknowledged that Uther did a Very Bad Thing when it came to relentlessly persecuting sorcerors, but then, time after time again, Merlin refuses opportunities to either end or diminish that persecution or to kill Uther, even in circumstances where Uther’s death wouldn’t have been directly tied to magic. Merlin ultimately ended up caring more for ARTHUR and Arthur’s wellbeing than his own people, and unfortunately, Arthur never proved himself worthy of that kind of loyalty. Which could have been a FASCINATING take on an unreliable narrator and the development of a narrative over time, but the writers unfortunately didn’t have the self-realization to realize what they were actually writing on the page. Again, I’ll avoid MAJOR spoilers, but during the time he’s king...a lot’s discussed, the audience is told many things about how he’s A Better Man Than His Father, but then we never really SEE it, just like we’re expected to believe that Gwen and Arthur are True Love™ because the soundtrack decided to add in Swelling String Music in the background.

And...really...

Look, I GET that the fandom loved Merthur. I really, really do. But at the same time, they never really rise BEYOND the “Hahaha stupid servant” thing. It’s very, very funny when one person tosses things at another, hits them, belittles them, etc., because it’s two guys, amiright! Sometimes, there are these little moments where they come close, and it’s cute (and then the writers pull back), but ultimately? I would say it’s fairly toxic, as a relationship. And normally, I don’t particularly care, because so many things that I ship are absolutely wretched, but this is someone who Merlin’s willing to risk his people for? There’s no...development. There’s this ongoing cycle of taunting, “Oh, look, Arthur’s not a complete tool after all,” and then...whoops, back to Square One because lol emotions are funny. I guess my main thing is: If they’re going to be friends, you have to SHOW them as friends, and you have to show them evolving beyond the servant/master dynamic. Because otherwise, watching a character getting ordered around by someone that’s supposed to be a friend? Isn’t really my cup of tea. Note: BY THE SECOND EPISODE, Arthur was canonically willing to believe Merlin when he was like “lol Valiant’s a little bitch.” Because the writers certainly did in later seasons.

The treatment of Morgana, you’ve already pointed out. She deserved better as a character; she had SO much potential, but they left her fall to the equivalent of flipping a switch. And...personally, I got TIRED of how sanctimonious the cast could be towards her. Arthur and Merlin can preach about how she should rise above years of Uther’s abuse to her, but ultimately...that was HER experience. Arthur, Gwen, and Merlin ALL suffered at Uther’s hands, but...coming from experience, the way that a given victim will react to an abuser can vary. She’s ALLOWED to be angry. You don’t HAVE to love your abuser, or forgive them, or wish them well, and after what she was put through? Also, I’ll never forgive the writers for making the scene where Merlin POISONS HER about his pain. “Oh, look at our woobie protagonist, he’s crying :(” YEAH, AND MORGANA’S CHOKING TO DEATH RIGHT NEXT TO HIM, TRYING TO GET AWAY BECAUSE SHE DOESN’T WANT HER WOULD-BE MURDERER TOUCHING HER.

I’m calm. I’m calm.

That Fucking Dragon. Get rid of it. If you can’t develop your main cast’s relationships organically and have to rely on Destiny™, you can’t write. IF you’re going to keep That Fucking Dragon, then at least let him be a LEGITIMATELY shady character. Like, Merlin goes from “OH SHIT KILGARRAH’S OFF HIS SHITS AND IS GOING TO BURN CAMELOT TO A CRISP. WHO KNEW HE HAD AN AGENDA ALL ALONG?” to “Ah, well, I’m going to take this action because my BFF Kilgarrah said so.” There’s no real consistency there.

Also the inconsistencies with Mordred, but I’ll skim that since you’re not there yet. Suffice it to say, they could have split him into two separate characters and it would have done very little. They never knew WHAT to do with the damn kid.

Okay, but strictly speaking, what I would change:

The timeline. That’s it. The show stretched itself out too much, ESPECIALLY with Uther. Look, I love Anthony Head, I love Anthony Head as Uther. He’s a delightful asshole who even has a few moments of sympathy despite being a genocidal asshat.

But Uther had to go. There’s a REASON why most Arthurian adaptations begin with the death of Uther, and that’s because, as long as he’s around, things are kept static. Merlin stumbles around, trying to save the day, Prince Arthur alternates between heroism and prattishness, usually within ten seconds of one another, he and Gwen look longingly at one another as Swelling String Music Plays, Morgana smirks...nothing CHANGES.

Ergo, you’ve got to get rid of Uther ~S1-2. I lean towards S2, so you can get a little time to develop him/his relationship to Arthur and The Igraine Drama. Cut The Troll Episode, cut a few other filler episodes, and just. Kill Uther. That gives you time to develop Arthur as a KING, while also not making the switch to King Arthur seem jarring. Spend some time on the magical ban, have Merlin GENUINELY try to do something for people like him. I’d probably set The Magic Reveal around S3-S4, with the last episode of the series being the establishment of the Golden Age of Camelot, with Merlin being appointed Court Magician.

Sometime in those few extra seasons, I WOULD like to see Morgana have an arc of her own. Not even necessarily a full REDEMPTION arc, because I’m not sure there’s anyway for her and her brother/the court of Camelot to be on solid terms, but at least something where she has to really...figure out what’s best for her people, as a High Priestess. She can’t TRUST Arthur and Merlin, but they’re also offering a way out. One of the common things I’ve seen people argue about her sloppy writing was that Morgana HAD to be evil because that’s part of the Arthurian myths, but the figure of Morgan le Fay’s been very flexible throughout the years; in her first appearances, she was benevolent. I would like to see her THERE, having reached a truce with the others. Just as Arthur rises to the kingship, she gains power in her own way. There’s no need to take it to Camlann.

Gwen and Arthur....I would put more threads of it in S1. I’m not sure it would EVER be my Number 1 ship, because it has Arthur in it, but the DEVELOPMENT needs to be there. And, whatever happens with her and Lancelot, I wouldn’t have them being FORCED into it by Morgana. For me, that completely annihilates the pain of Arthur/Gwen/Lancelot. If Uther can make vague references to keeping Morgana’s mother company while Gorlois was away, I THINK the audience can handle Gwen having conflicting feelings towards two men. Maybe Arthur’s different now that he’s king, not the more carefree prince she knew who turned her from a maid to a queen. Maybe the kingdom’s under invasion, maybe he’s finding out that his father left far more of a mark than he thought and he has to reconcile the fact that he STILL loves his father with knowing that the man was a monster, maybe he doesn’t EXACTLY understand the amount of pressure she’s under to be The Perfect Queen, since the court will take any opportunity it can to rip her apart. And she loves him, of course she does, and she’s grateful to him, but Lancelot’s there, and he’s concerned for Arthur too, and he understands what it’s like to rise above his station. I’m not asking for a full on soap opera storyline, but IF you’re going to put Lancelot/Guinevere in there, then you have to do it in a way that respects the characters rather than just ticking points off a checklist. (Especially given that the show completely went away from Arthurian myth at various points, so it’s not like they HAD to bring it in. And the lovely thing with Arthuriana is that you can bring in or take out pretty much whatever you want; the genre is endlessly adaptable.)

Also, we were robbed of a Merlin-style Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. ROBBED. (Christmas special, anyone?)

#fandomswillruinmylife #long post #i'm several years rusty on merlin so this is off the top of my head #but hey it's long enough as it is

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awed-frog · 6 years

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I have asked myself why – while I like the ideas and themes – the pacing of the show doesn’t seem to work for me? I think Dabbs style, which makes his episodes so great, doesn’t translate well into showrunning. Dabb often leaves one part or scene open which becomes relevant later. During a season, however I feel this gets very confusing, because nothing seems to happen, e.g. the Mary/Dean conflict in s12. (1/2)

The conflicts in the show also seem to be everywhere and so many, while on the other hand everything is missing depth? It feels like the show is leaving loose ends all over the place? What also doesn’t help is that he seems to favor a grand finale (dragging out the conflict until the very end). I’m just wondering if I’m the only person who feels like this? I hope this doesn’t come off as wank, it’s really not my intention. Thank you for answering! (2/2)

Well, the thing is - I don’t see this as wank at all, but I’m definitely the wrong person to discuss this kind of stuff. I studied mostly books and art - stuff that generally has one mind behind it, not several - and I don’t keep up with bts stuff, which means I’m missing too many crucial bits of information about the screenwriters and their personal interests to write an informed meta about that. So, you know - since you asked me, I’m going to tell you what I think, but please keep in mind that it’s just my random-ass opinion.

Also, I generally don’t rewatch episodes - back when I really liked the show, I used to watch the same episode twice before writing my meta, but it’s been a very long time since I sat down and rewatched the entire thing from the very beginning, so I never remember who wrote what. Looking at the list of Dabb episodes, I know there are some I really liked, but others that left me quite meh. I think that so far, the only screenwriter I’ve been consistently in love with is Yockey, and that’s not only because his writing is phenomenal and his characterization spot-on, but also because what he finds interesting about Supernatural and the people in it mostly resonates with what I like. With Dabb, on the other hand, that has been very hit and miss - which, of course, it’s not about fault or quality, but simply about a difference in sensibilities.

What I don’t like, on the other hand, and think is objectively bad, are his choices as a showrunner. I don’t know where he’s going if we’re talking ‘final act’ of Supernatural, and that’s okay, since we don’t even know how many seasons we have left, but S12 was a disaster. As you say, there are too many subplots, most of them go nowhere, the tension peaks and disappears whenever, and the resolution just didn’t work for me - like, at all. It felt so, so rushed. In fact, the whole thing felt so outlandishly incoherent I’m not even sure they knew what S12 would be about when they were filming the S11 finale.

Because, in theory, we had two main conflicts heading into S12: the fact that Mary was back, and the BMoL as new players on the board. That, in my opinion, should have been plenty enough to build a convincing season - with Mary alone, there was a lot of potential for angst and feels and unsettling stuff - instead, the choice was made to bring Lucifer back to life and include that weird-ass subplot about him becoming president and having a kid who brainwashed and killed people from the womb but now is good (?), and uhm.

(And, again, I don’t know how any of this works - it’s likely Samantha Smith could only be in a limited number of episodes, hence the now infamous ‘let’s find an excuse to make this crucial character disappear’, but still - it’s beyond ridiculous the fact she’s back from the dead was resolved so quickly.)

Mary’s return and the BMoL means that Dabb’s goal was probably to ‘go back to the basics’ and explore who Sam and Dean actually are, after all this time, and why they do what they do, and whether they’re the heroes or the villains in their own story. The problem with this is that the answers were self-evident from the start, because this show is about them and by now we know them fairly well. So what happened instead is that the BMoL became a cartoonishly bad organization - what was interesting and worth discussing (ie, how they’d managed to eradicate the supernatural in the UK, thus saving countless lives, and how they’d done that by using very questionable means) was swept aside in favour of a narrative that was 100% in black and white. And the same thing, for different reasons (namely, that you can’t unfridge a woman and then turn her into any kind of Stepford mother) happened with Mary, whose storyline consistently evolved only through her relatonship with men and about whom, after two years, we still know next to nothing. Not to mention everything else: for instance, how both she and Sam made very uh-uh choices last year, but that was never delved into at all. How the same thing happened with Crowley’s characterization, which would have deserved more time in the spotlight if he was going to get his Heyward moment so soon, and with Cas, whose seemingly momentous pronouncement in 12x12 - that he’d chosen his human family once and for all! that he had human feelings! - was never mentioned again.

As for this season, so far the problems are exactly the same: about 25 villains, all of them childishly and uncomplicatedly evil, plot points all over the place, conflicts that go nowhere, characters who appear and disappear without having accomplished anything - it’s a mess.

Something else that’s been a problem in the Dabb era is that ethically grey choices are increasingly presented as good ones - from Kelly’s immediate attachment to a demon baby that was going to kill her and potentially the rest of the universe as well, to Mary working with Ketch, to the boys ripping holes in space-time to get their relatives from one place to the next without even considering the possible damage to everyone else.

So, look - I don’t know. I won’t say being a showrunner is an easy job, because I’m sure it’s not, and it must be hard to manage content in any rational way when a) you can’t tweak the format of a show even when that format has been woefully outgrown and b) you don’t even know when the story will finish, but they should still find a way to do better than this. Last season basically amounted to nothing at all, and this year I feel like I’m watching a bunch of disjointed and disconnected stories that have no definite purpose. Even the way Sam and Dean keep seesawing between faith and despair rings hollow - mechanic and out of touch with any kind of reality - not to mention, those feelings are never explored in any way. Dean suddenly got better because *subtext*, of course, but what is Sam even up to? Does anyone know? And what about Cas? He went from abject misery to PTSD to a raw desperation to prove himself, and then he was brainwashed by Jack (or was he?), and now he’s - back to what he was in S4? The ‘war needs trump morality, Dean’ commander? Really - it’s rushed and weird and uncomfortable to watch.

Anyway - sorry this got so bitter and thanks for sharing your opinion with me. Here’s to hoping to a satisfying ending for S13!

#ask #spn season 13 #spn season 12 #andrew dabb #spn negativity #spn criticism #the dabb era #i'm glad i'm not the only one tbh

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jbuffyangel · 7 years

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Arrow Moves To Thursdays

Woke up to this article today and my TL looked like:

Arrow is moving to Thursday nights at 9 pm next fall for their sixth season. Reactions varied from chill to... not. Do I think this is a bad thing? No, I don’t.

Allow me to preface this post by saying this: I’ve been talking about Arrow’s ratings and The CW network since I started this blog. Long before there was ever a ratings drop, my opinion was that The CW has a different business model than the other networks. If you cannot accept that The CW’s profitability is not based on live ratings, then this is not the blog for you. You don’t have to take my word for it. Stephen Amell confirmed it at HVFF Chicago. Mark Pedowitz has spoken about it. I’ve done my research on this folks. They are structured differently than the Big Four. It’s just facts. (X)

Yes, I was surprised by the move mostly because I had grown complacent about Arrow on Wednesday night. Wasn’t expecting it. I am no expert, but I’m happy to share my thoughts. I’ll talk about what I like about the move. Then we’ll shift to concerns.

What I Like

The 9 pm slot

Praise Jesus! We are on at a later time. THIS IS FABULOUS. Arrow has always been a darker and grittier show, especially when you compare it to The Flash and Supergirl. A 9 pm slot loosens the grip Broadcasting Standards and Practices has on the show. It can be more violent and sexier simply because the kiddos go to bed. I sincerely hope Arrow is able to push the envelope more, even if it’s ever so slightly.

Supernatural Pairing

I do not watch Supernatural, but I am THRILLED Arrow was paired with it. These shows were paired before (2015 Arrow S4/Supernatural S11) and I believe it was successful. Supernatural and Arrow have very similar demographics, so they’ve always seemed like a natural fit to me.

Honestly, how The CW pairs their shows has always been quite a head scratcher to me. Arrow and Frequency? HUH? The pairings for next year’s fall line up feel the most logical in years. The only one I’m really side eyeing is Valor after Supergirl (Really?). All the other show pairings feel similar in demographic and content, which just makes more sense to me if you are trying to maintain/build on audiences.

Supernatural is a strong show. It’s been on 12 years. It’s moved 8 times. I think if God invented an 8th day and The CW moved it there but didn’t tell a soul, the Supernatural fans would find it. This fandom is as loyal as they get. Their ratings have held pretty steady over the course of 12 seasons, which in of itself is impressive. A move is always tough on any television show, simply because your audience needs to follow it to the new night. So, I am extremely happy Arrow’s lead in is an anchor show for the network, who has already proven themselves on Thursday nights, and comes with a built in audience that is similar to Arrow’s.

Thursday Night

This is primarily for selfish reasons. I teach faith formation on Wednesday nights, but I am wide open on Thursdays. So, Arrow on Thursdays just works better for my schedule. lol I can live tweet more.

The Concerns

This Is Us

Yes, I am well aware that This Is Us is moving to Thursdays at 9 pm. This seemed to be the primary concern. That the live ratings mammoth that is This Is Us will send Arrow into a ratings death spiral and it will get canceled. Sigh. No. Just... no.

Name one show on The CW that is in the ballpark of This Is Us numbers? Name one show on The CW that is in the live ratings ballpark of any show that airs on the Big Four? See, this is where this whole “How in holy Moses is The CW profitable?” question really starts to matter. It doesn’t matter what show The CW puts in that time slot. They’ll all get creamed. lol The CW isn’t concerned about Arrow going head to head with This Is Us. They don’t operate on a mano e mano strategy for live ratings... because they lose.

This Is Us has to prove successful on Thursday. There can be a tendency for hit pilot shows to suffer a sophomore slump in ratings. This Is Us is moving to the toughest night on television. It has the break to contend with too when NBC starts airing football. I’m not really worried about any of this. I think This Is Us will do great and kick serious ass. I’m expecting every show that goes up against it will take a live ratings hit.

Is This Is Us going to take enough of Arrow’s viewers to send it into some ratings death spiral so The CW is forced to cancel because it’s become abysmally unprofitable? Doubtful.

I do think the shows target different demos as Mark Pedowitz said. Now before you start screaming at me, “I WATCH THIS IS US AND ARROW” that’s great. So do I. I love them both. Except, I’m not a Nielson family so it doesn’t really matter that I watch both.

The CW’s demographic is primarily female. The reasons why Arrow and The Flash were so appealing to to The CW was because it allowed them to branch into the other half of the population more - the male demo. That’s who The CW needed to target for their market to grow. Now, before you start screaming at me, “WOMEN WATCH ARROW AND MEN WATCH THIS IS US” yes thank you. I am aware. I am quite sure This Is Us will take some of Arrow’s audience, but this is not new territory for me. Blindspot was up against Arrow this year. It had to lose some audience to Blindspot given how similar the demos are. I’m not certain the demos are as different as Pedowitz claims, but he’s probably got numbers I don’t. The question is how much will This Is Us take? That is the X factor. I don’t have male/female demographics on either show, so how the shift all shakes out is unknowable. Am I worried? NO.

As I discussed in my most recent ratings post, I don’t know what the live ratings/profitability ratio is for The CW but even with a 30% drop in ratings Arrow is nowhere near their danger zone. The Originals is averaging a .30. It’s going into Season 5. Reign was at the same average when it was renewed for a fourth and final season. We've got a long ways to go. Arrow is still the #4 performer for the network.

The CW is focused on streaming. Netflix kids. That's where they make their money. The more seasons they have to sell to Netflix the more money they get to make. This includes complete series that viewers can binge start to finish. They also want their series to hit 88-100 episodes. They aren't trying to make money off the live broadcast run. They are focused on syndication deals. Arrow has a syndication deal with TNT. This all means The CW is focused on LONGEVITY.

Even if This Is Us sends Arrow into another ratings dive – I don’t think it goes anywhere. Stephen Amell is signed for 7 seasons. I feel confident we’re going 7 folks. Whether or not we go longer remains to be seen, but I think that has a lot more to do with Stephen Amell than it does with This Is Us. If Arrow ends in S7, I'm not remotely prepared to call that a series failure. Nor should you.

The CW is trying to kill Arrow

There seems to be a concern that The CW is trying to kill Arrow by moving it to Thursday and putting it up against This Is Us.

Thursday is not the night shows go to die. That would be Friday. (Jen pats Blindspot). Although, even that mentality is starting to change. I think The CW would rather move a low rated show to Friday, especially if it has a loyal fanbase and strong social media presence, instead of cancel it. Friday keeps many shows alive, which means more streaming opportunities!

I guess the thinking on this one is because Arrow suffered a 30% drop The CW wants to cancel it and this is how they push it out. Again, I disagree. This is The CW not Fox. They try to keep series going, not intentionally torpedo them.

Also, Marc confirmed that their streaming is UP. So, it’s possible whatever loss Arrow is suffering in live they are making it up in streaming. The audience is just shifting. We don't have any specific numbers, but for all we know, this could be a wash. My bet is The CW is nowhere near as unhappy with Arrow's numbers as people presume they are. Especially, if their numbers are up in the medium The CW is TARGETING.

Thursday

So why is Arrow getting moved off its comfortable Wednesday night show to one of the toughest nights in TV?

The Vampire Diaries was The CW's Thursday solid 8 pm performer for years. They've always struggled to find a solid 9 pm. Nikita, The Secret Circle, Beauty and the Beast, Reign, The Originals, Riverdale – none of them cut it. Then once TVD moved to Fridays, Legends of Tomorrow failed to gain traction in TVD's old spot. You know what's moved back and forth to Thursdays a lot over the years? SUPERNATURAL. Something I noticed - each one of these failed Thursday night shows were pretty buzzy their first season. Arrow generates buzz.

Look guys, they had to put something there. The CW doesn't have a lot of new shows this season which means one of the returning series has to move to fill up the slots. Supernatural proved successful this year on Thursdays. So, if you look at the board – Arrow makes the most sense to pair with it. Also, after 5 seasons, Arrow is still one of their strongest performing series (#4 ain't bad). I think The CW put two of the longest running series, with a loyal fan base, to a night where they've been looking for two solid performers for awhile.

I also don't think WHEN The CW schedules their shows matters as much as other networks because, you guessed it, streaming.

That said, Arrow did suffer a 30% drop this year. That's not insignificant. Meanwhile, Supernatural had a minimal drop. Maybe the time has come for Arrow to stop being the lead in series and get a little support. I'm okay with that. Its certainly carried their own weight.

Why not just put Supernatural on Wednesday like they did last year? Well, that still leaves Thursday as wildly problematic, but maybe the answer is Fox? Fox went with soapier programming this year on Wednesday with Empire and Star. So, I think The CW answered with Riverdale and The Dynasty reboot. That’s that's just a guess though. I also think they wanted a new night for Riverdale. They seem invested in that series, the network just made an Archie comics deal, and probably wanted to find a more successful night for it than Thursday. Supergirl is a solid Monday performer. The Flash/LOT pairing is working great on Tuesday. That leaves Wednesday. And... Arrow suffered a drop. The door was open.

Supernatural makes a bad lead in

Ehh... I just disagree with this. 12 years is a long time and I don't have enough knowledge about Supernatural. I certainly understand if fans prefer Supernatural at 9 pm, but I think it has switched between 8 and 9 just as much as it has moved nights. I think Riverdale was sighted as this example. Honestly, I think that has more to do with my previous complaint about The CW's penchant for terrible pairing. What on earth do Riverdale and Supernatural have in common? I’m not surprised the audience didn’t carry over. I don't lay the blame at Supernatural's door. I stand by my positives for Supernatural being the lead in.

The Crossover

This move breaks up the crossover. Honestly, I don’t think a network can plan their entire schedule around one episode a year. Also, I think the fanbases for the DC shows are pretty loyal. They’ll follow the crossover conclusion to Arrow on Thursday night. I don’t see a day drastically changing numbers, but I guess we’ll see. Even still, one episode a season does not make.

I'm sure I've missed other concerns, but I took my best shot. My advice would be to stop worrying about Arrow's cancellation and just enjoy the show - no matter what night it is on.

#arrow #arrow season 6 #arrow ratings #arrow production notes

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ikonics44 · 7 years

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A post worth reading found on The Tony Goldwyn FB Fan Page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/thetonygoldwyn/

For those who don’t know where I stand with Scandal these days… I will let you know that I am a STRONG WARRIOR who has made a CHOICE to not give Shonda Rhimes Live Viewing numbers for any new Episode of Scandal since 5- 09. In fact, I am one of the co-founders of the Scandal Warrior page encouraging those of us in the Fandom that are NOT happy with the Direction of Scandal; do not like the OP Character being reduced down to a degrading factor, are not happy with the little screen time Fitz and Tony Goldwyn are getting on the show, are not here for the advancement of the Diluted Amount of Supporting Characters like Mellie, Jake & Rowan at the cost of reducing the airtime and importance of the main characters, are sick of the plot holes and lazy writing of constant WASH, RINSE & REPEAT themes …. I encourage those people FED UP with the Series, to not Reward Shonda and ABC for putting out BULLSHIT on screen each and every week by NOT watching — in hope for a FORCED Intervention and CHANGE of Direction with the series. If ABC and Shonda want my Viewer Number, they are going to have to “EARN IT” by returning Scandal back to true form! Where OP was the Bad-Ass Fixer, scoring Cases….the White House overcoming obstacles that cross over with the Fixing Process of OPA and a Healthy Relationship for both Fitz and Olivia (not even necessarily together anymore…but happy and content). I have yet to see anything worth giving Shonda Rhimes my Viewing number since her destruction of the series w/ 5-09. Replaying this BS Election night over and over like “Groundhog Day” – minus Bill Murray… starring everyone but the Butler’s point of View is Pointless, a waste of Time and doing NOTHING for Olivia’s “Journey” IMO.

That being said and put aside… ABC has decided to give us a “GIFT” this Thursday night at 8:00 p.m. EST by airing one of its BEST EPISODES of the Series. This GIFT on Screen will be the Replay of “The Trail” Episode 1-06, which was Written by Jenna Banns (Creator of “The Family”, and really the best Olitz Writer that Scandal ever had who wrote the phone sex scene and many other pivotal, epic love story lines of the series); Heavily Supported by Executive Producer Pete Norwalk (Creator of “How to Get Away with Murder” which gave us the twists and mystery behind Amanda Tanner and the Mole storylines; hell we haven’t had good mysteries since he left Scandal) and directed by Tom Verica. For the OLITZ Nation…. “The Trail” is the OLITZ Bible, Foundation for the Scandalous Affair… and the Reason we Fell in love with the LOVE STORY of Fitz and Olivia . It was why we put this Series on EVERYONES RADAR. This is the Episode in which most of us with Morals, actually gave a Pass on the Infidelity Card and rooted for this Couple that had an undeniable EXTRADORINARY LOVE. This is where we see Kerry Washington and Tony Goldwyn’s Chemistry Explode and Electrically Shock us through our TV Screens. No doubt that this is probably the Most Watched & Re-Watched Episode of all of Scandal.

Why cross the picket line and watch the trail? Let me just spout off SEVERAL reasons why I encourage those that have LEFT the Bullshit, yet still follow the actors, the series through YouTube and Blogs, Message Boards, Twitter, Tumblr, FFic etc… should buckle down and Watch the first Block of Scandal this Thursday night.

1) I want ABC to know that THIS IS THE QUALITY that we want to see on Screen. This Writing, This Storyline is what we will come back to, hold Scandal Parties for, be more than Active on Social Media with and promote the series to our Friends… this Quality and Formula is what MADE Scandal a Success. For an OLITZ Fan…. We need to HONOR this Epic Episode, our Foundation, by Coming out of the Woodwork and Watching and boosting the ratings of this OLD EPISODE over any new Crap shown in that next hour. If the new Episode out performs this OLD EPISODE in ratings, it only will serve as FUEL to SR Fire of Getting Rid of OLITZ for good. Her argument might be that FITZ (Tony Goldwyn) can be written off the show now and still have this Series more than Survive. By not showing up for this Episode, SR will convince ABC that the OLITZ fans are GONE now…. ‘I gave them “Their” BEST Episode and they still NOT watching attitude— so ABC….let me Continue down this Path without Tony and Fitz…. ‘ HORSESHIT!!! I want to be HEARD that this IS THE QUALITY of show I WILL WATCH. ABC needs to know that WE ARE STILL OUT THERE …but have CHOSEN to not support the current Direction. For some of us — we are still Viable Viewers given better Material to watch. For others it will always be a lost cause…as they may never be back and that is each and everyone’s individual choice. I do not stand in judgment for those who were lucky enough to escape the Toxicity of the series for good. However, SR and ABC needs to be sent a LOUD MESSAGE NOW — that Getting Rid of Tony Goldwyn on Screen would be Suicidal to the Series. SR thinks that she can push him aside as she has done to several major characters on Grey’s — she needs a WAKE UP CALL NOW… we are Still out there and she better Slow her Roll with phasing Fitz off the show! We are NOT the same Fans of Grey’s that will Roll Over and Accept anything she puts out there…we are a DIFFERENT, More LOYAL to our Actors type of Fans. We have more than proved that by actively boycotting the series and bringing ratings Dramatically down. What Better way to show them that the “Creepy Cult” is Still Around than to HONOR and WATCH “The Trail”.

2) I want OLAKERS to know that we are still out there lurking and are the Majority of the Scandal Fan base and can make or break this series for good. I am SOOO damn Sick of the OLAKERS that have NO CLUE about the Foundation of this Series being OLITZ because they damn jumped in Watching Scandal at the end of Season 2 and beginning of Season 3, bypassing these critical episodes of “The Trail”, “Happy Birthday Mr. President” and “A Criminal, A Wore, an Idiot and a Liar” that show the deep history of OLITZ. They need to be Educated. I want us to come out in FULL FORCE to overtake SM on this Episode Alone and to Silence those Buffoons that do nothing but Hate on Fitz and Tony Goldwyn and the OLITZ love story. We need to Remind ABC that this episode helped make Scandal a Success and this FORMULA could possibly resurrect the damn series to over 5M viewers if steered in the right direction.

3) Last — I sadly am not an ORIGINAL Gladiator. I did not see the original Airtime of this Episode back in 2012. I missed out on the Live Tweets during this Eppy and if I never watch another LIVE SCANDAL episode again, I would rather end all my Live Viewing on this OLD EPPY than have it be 5-09. To Me Episode 5-09 will go down in TV HISTORY as the WORST JUMP THE SHARK EPISODE IN ANY T.V. SERIES (mark my words). Hell they should re-name that episode as JUMP the WHALE…cause I’ve never seen an Audience Bail as quickly as they did — cutting the Viewership by 1/3rd overnight… So “The Trail” may be my Last HOORAY — of LIVE Scandal, especially if Rumors of Fitz being killed off or written off come true within next 8 episodes down the road. Tony Goldwyn missing out on the 100th Episode Party was HUGE in where his head is with the future of this series. I don’t care what excuses the Fandom has come up with… this party was important PR and he was AWOL with NO Explanation (not that he owes us one). His Absence stirred more talk alone than the damn Series Milestone Accomplished. To not be there in that Picture was HOLLOW. I do know that the man had the knowledge of the Finale at the time of this party because he is Directing it and gets the script ahead of the cast and table reads. So turning your back on the Scandal Family, not being a part of the 100th for the Media, always being that PR cheerleader for the series in fact I’d say he was the Captain of PR for Scandal ….he not being a part of it was a Huge AMISS… I don’t care how people try to sugarcoat it…. It was a LOUD STATEMENT for me and I heard it! So when SR has already said she is arguing about the S6 finale with the Writers a few weeks ago… the last Argument she had with them was S4 Finale with OLITZ on the Balcony… so you do the math on this one and speculate however you choose. I have the answers well enough to know that ABC needs to see my Viewer # this this Thursday for “The Trail” so that they factor me in as a possible LOST (FOR GOOD) VIEWER if Tony Goldwyn leaves Scandal.

So there you have it…. Why I think it is IMPORTANT to watch “The Trail” and be HEARD. This WAS the Scandal Series I fell in Love with. This is the QUALITY I will come back to and watch. Make no Mistake, I’m not a ride or die Olitz Fan… whether they come back together or not is NOT what this is about for me. You have seen me joke about “Ritz” etc… So the “No Olitz No Scandal” is Not really My Motto or message here, although I think those reasons are fine for others. For me I’m perfectly HAPPY having the S4 Finale be “My Ending” with OLITZ on that Balcony with “Whatever we Want” to get my happy OLITZ ending. I’m not sure that I will get anything better than that to be honest from SR and her team of writers, EVER. But I will SHOW UP for this Episode this Thursday Night. I will Honor a Past Episode and give Credit to: Jenna Banns, Pete Norwalk and Tom Verica for putting out a Quality Episode; that Sets the Example to the type of Quality I will Return to for Live Viewing. I will HONOR a time that The Characters all were Likeable. Unfortunately for me the ONLY character I currently like is FITZ, who outside this last episode has been getting minimal screen time. (And yes, I don’t watch but keep up with the storyline through active boards and sites I participate in and clips/gifs I see before some smartass makes a comment on how I know). Should there be an element of LOVE in the Series…. ABSOLUTELY — and if SR is DUMB ENOUGH to Ignore the “GOLD” she has with the Chemistry of OLITZ….so be it. But don’t waste Tony Goldwyn or Kerry Washington’s Sex Appeal all together…. Find a way for their characters to be happy ,in a true growth style, and you may have viewers back. I’m a Ride or Die FITZer. So I will be LOUD and PROUD one last time this Thursday Night for the First HOUR of Scandal…and will Turn the Channel as soon as OLITZ says their Goodbye in her Apartment… until SR and ABC give me a Solid Reason to Come back in the present storyline…… I will continue to turn the channel. I hope MANY of you I know are still out there…like me… will join me in doing the SAME thing this Thursday!

#tonygoldwyn #olitz #scandal

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twdmusicboxmystery · 5 years

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FTWD 5x01 - Analysis

Wow! That was an awesome first episode of FTWD! Not only did I see plenty of TD-like symbolism, but there were some really important things that weren’t symbolism at all That were fully confirmed connections. Okay, maybe not directly to Beth, but to her symbolism.

***As always, spoilers for FTWD 5x01 abound in this episode. Don’t read until you’ve watched!***

Let’s start with the biggest connection I’m referring to above. At one point, Al finds some papers on a particular walker (I’ll get to the plot details in a minute) which have the same symbol we saw on Jadis’s food stash in TWD S8 and on the side of the helicopter that took her and Rick away in S9. Me and @wdway immediately noticed it and it was confirmed on TTD.

So what does that mean? It means Morgan’s group in Fear now officially has a connection to the group that took Rick and Jadis. Now, a couple of things to keep in mind about this.

1. Does this automatically mean a link to Beth? Well no, not that we can prove yet. But it makes me happy because, as I’ve said many times, because of the hospital stuff we saw around Rick in 9x05, I think wherever he went has a link to Beth. Just my personal theory. And we keep saying Beth might possibly return or be linked to FTWD. So, you see what I mean? The connection is there, even in the first episode of the season.

2. Remember that Fear is 5 or 6 years behind TWD. They haven’t done the time jump, as yet, that TWD did in S9. So, unless they have a time jump at some point this season, I don’t think Morgan’s group is about to run into Rick. It’ll be another 5-6 years before the bridge incident in which Rick disappears.

But. If Morgan’s group gets involved with this group over the next few years, they may well be there already when Rick arrives several years in the future. Furthermore, just because this is 5 years in TWD’s past doesn’t have any bearing on Beth. We have no idea where she is or what she’s doing during those years, so she could still conceivably be with this three-circles/helicopter group.

Okay, back to details.

The opening sequence is super interesting. We saw the two young boys shoot a deer. So, Deer Theory.

I’m not sure which character this refers to yet. I think we need a few more episodes to figure it out for sure. The deer died, which suggests a mortally wounded character will live. That could be Luciana in this episode.

She was hurt badly and nearly died. June even remarked that she was extremely lucky she did. So the deer might be about her. But we’ll have to see if any other characters go through something similar in coming episodes before we can be sure.

There was also a plane crash, which I’m kind of side-eyeing.

It just reminded me of helicopter crashes. I can’t be sure it’s the same symbolism. Planes and helicopters are two different things. But it did occur to me that we had the helicopter crash in 3x01, which is what the imagery reminded me most of, and that’s when Merle, who hadn’t been seen for a couple of seasons returned. Again, not positive this would refer to Beth’s return (though it always could) but I was also thinking of Dwight, who we already know will be in this season. And he hasn’t been seen since TWD S8.

Before the two boys actually shoot the deer in the opening sequence, the shots reminded me a lot of Daryl teaching Beth to shoot with the crossbow. The older boy was teaching the younger one to shoot (with a rifle, not a crossbow) but look at how similar these shots are.

They even do the thing where the shot starts out blurry/unfocused, and then comes into focus. Go back and watch this part of Alone. Same exact thing. So this is definitely a Beth parallel.

We could also relate this to Carol trying to get Mika to shoot the deer in 4x14.

There’s an immediate difference, though. Mika refused to shoot the deer, but we see this boy—Dylan—shoot it with no qualms. I was even thinking that, in the CBs, the two kids in the Lizzie/Mika story line were boys. They changed their gender for the show. I wonder if this could possibly be some kind of twist on that. Hopefully not, as it wouldn’t bode well for how long these boys will survive. Just something that crossed my mind.

So the basic gist of the plot here is that ever since the end of S4 (which on TWD they said was only a few months’ time jump) Morgan’s group has been looking for people to help and bring into their mill community, but haven’t had much luck. Everyone they run across is either dead, or the group can’t find them. So they’ve contacted, via radio, a group led by a man named Logan. Their group wants to be rescued and join their community, and they’re the first ones who that’s been true of, so Morgan’s group is excited to find them.

They spend the episode looking for them. On the way, Al flies a plane to get them there and it crashes, hence the opening sequence. Unfortunately, by the end, it turns out to all be a ruse.

Logan did it to get them away from the mill so he could take over it. So while we haven’t seen Logan be totally evil and murderous yet, we’ve seen him be diabolical, and I think he’ll basically be the villain for this season. Meanwhile, Strand and the other half of the group is looking for Morgan and those who were in the plane crashed, but haven’t found them yet by the end of this episode.

Actually, Logan is slightly Governor-ish. Logan is, at least claiming to be, less violent than the Governor. He tricked them to get them out of the mill because he apparently doesn’t want violence. Obviously that wasn’t true of the Governor who literally uttered the phrase, “Kill them all.” But the similarities are close enough—kicking them out of the place they live so he can live there instead—that I think it’s safe to say he qualifies as a villain.

We saw that many of the roads are blocked with “red rover” lines of walkers. The first thing it reminded us of were the walkers the Saviors put up in TWD S6. They were put there by the Saviors. So I’m wondering if these red rover walkers are due to Dwight’s influence. If he’s in the area, they might have been his idea, but we haven’t actually run into him yet or what group he’s with. Well, unless he’s with Logan. If that’s the case, we simply haven’t seen Dwight yet.

I’m actually glad to see this symbol again. Though it may have a direct, plot connection to Dwight, I also think it might symbolism something specific, but I want to get a better idea of how things will play out before I theorize any more about that.

We saw some repeated numbers. A 5 on the door of the truckstop. Several 4s and 7s, all of which are important numbers.

There were two other places I got Beth vibes, just due to how things were filmed. So three places total. The first was when the boys shot the deer and it looked like Daryl teaching Beth. The second was in the van. The boys’ sister was driving, and it just LOOKED a lot like 5x09 when Beth was driving the van in Tyrese’s death hallucination.

I even noticed this girl wasn’t always looking at the road, lol. That was fine for Ty’s hallucination of Beth, because she wasn’t REALLY driving, but this girl was. Luckily, they didn’t crash.

Then, when they had to remove the pole from Luciana’s shoulder (ouch!), it reminded us a lot of Grady, when Beth held Joan down and they cut off her arm. Again, what’s happening is different, but it just LOOKS very similar.

Interestingly, I noticed that they referred to the plane as a “bear” more than once. The Polar Bear symbol is big in FTWD, and we can connect that to the North Star/Sirius symbolism. So I’ll keep an idea on that moving forward. Just kind of interesting.

As it turned out, this Logan guy knew Clayton.

Refresher: Clayton was the trucker who originally started leaving the boxes on the side of the road last season to help people. We met him briefly, but he was pretty much dead before Morgan’s crew arrived on the scene. Logan says they were partners (Clayton and Logan are the C&L in the truck logo) but went their separate ways. Clayton obviously embraced hope and helping others, but Logan is more out for his own interests, tricking people and taking back what he sees as his, and such.

I’m just finding that interesting because if Clayton was the hope and symbolized by the polar bear (Beth) then they’re setting Logan up as the antithesis of that. I’m interested to see where this goes.

Back to the three symbols. So Al killed a walker wearing a Darth Vador-ish mask. She took some footage of the walker and later watched it. She became convinced there was something important about this walker that she needed to investigate.

She later returned to the plane crash to do just that. She found papers on him that had the three-circles symbol on it. So this masked walker is tied to the group that took Rick and Jadis.

Guys, this is potentially a huge Beth-connection? Can you see how? (I don’t just mean the connection to the helicopter group.) Stop and think about that mask for a minute. Does it remind you of anything? How about this:

We all know 6x06 totally OOZED Beth and Daryl symbolism. We read into this mask symbolically as a sign that Beth being alive is hidden from Daryl and the audience, as him not realizing she’d survived, etc. But what if it was also meant to be more literal than that? Like the group she returns with wear similar masks? Just saying.

Oh, and one other thing? 6x06, when we saw this mask and Daryl lying beside this walker (Bethyl Side by Side Theory) was the first episode in which Dwight appeared. Now, in this season, we know we’ll see Dwight. The things that make you go, “Hmmm.”

And Daniel is back! At least, via one of Al’s tapes. Which means some time after the group lost him at the dam, Al ran into him. I’m assuming we’ll see him for real at some point this season.

And who said that we would see him again? Well, lots of people, but TD were some of them. At this point, I think most people assumed we’d see him again because we just didn’t see anything that definitively suggested his death. To be fair, it was much more obvious that he was alive than it is more Madison or Beth, but the fact remains that we’ve seen the same types of symbolism around all three of them, and we never definitively saw what happened to their bodies.

In fact, they made a bit deal on TTD that the last time Strand and Daniel saw each other, Strand shot him in the face. So both Daniel and Beth shot in the head/face area, presumed dead, body disappeared, etc. So if Daniel is alive, then…

There were some more, small symbols in the background I won’t go into very much. For example, I saw a rope in a circular shape behind Morgan. Kind of an ourobouros symbol. We also saw a list of movies on the clipboard that I’ll look into more. Logan knows the combination for the lock at the mill. I noticed that the camera focuses on it for a second.

Let’s talk themes. We definitely heard some familiar ones.

1. Luck. (Luck Theory). I’ve said before that I think they use this for people who should have died by all accounts, but didn’t. Hence, they’re “lucky.” They used it this way here too. June said Luciana was very lucky to be alive. But John and June also had a convo that included it.

He said they had all the luck in the world because they’d all survived. People don’t just survive things like that. (Sound like it could be applied to Beth?) John is also having some serious doubts right now. He’s struggling, and June is helping him through it, bolstering his hope.

Again, sound like Beth and Daryl? And remember, per last season, they’re definitely proxies for Beth and Daryl.

2. Trying. Morgan and Alicia talk about this one. Again, it’s about the fact that they haven’t been able to help anyone and they’re all a bit discouraged about that at this point.

Alicia is also going through something, while Morgan is the counter to her, being more hopeful. But he says that they’re “trying” and have to keep trying. Even if it’s hard. He also says that it should be hard, especially given all the bad things they’ve all done.

3. It also occurred to me that, while they didn’t use the exact same words, they basically said Beth’s “if you don’t have hope, what’s the point of living?” theme. Alicia basically implies that this isn’t working and she wants to stop. Morgan then asks, “Then why stand?” In other words, what’s the point? Trying to find and help people is how they maintain their hope, and if they stop doing that, what’s the point of their lives. So we definitely heard an iteration of this theme.

So yeah. I think that’s all I have for now. I may do a (fairly short) details post tomorrow once I look into a few things in the background (like those movie titles) but this is most of what I noticed.

Overall, I really enjoyed watching this episode and I’ve got tons of hope for where it may lead. Oh, let me end on one other thing. I won’t do a whole post on TTD, but they did have interviews with the actors and all of them said what happens during this season will be mind-blowing for the viewers. Like, we’re all gonna loose our shit.

So keep in mind that we know the actors DO use hyperbole to hype the show, so you should take this with a grain of salt. They also could just be talking about some crazy things that happen that pertain to this group.

BUT. There’s always the possibility that this will link to Rick—and by extension, Beth—and THAT’s what they mean. Here’s hoping! 😉

What did everyone else think of the episode?

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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twdmusicboxmystery · 7 years

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The 5 Theory

Good morning and Happy Saturday! Hope everyone has some fun plans.

So I’m actually super excited about this theory. It makes so much sense and reinforces what we already believe about Beth returning in S8. Full creds to @wdway for this one. In this case, I really didn’t add much (except enthusiastic applause, of course. ;D)

So here’s the thing: we’ve seen lots of 5s in the background of the show, especially during S5 episodes. I’ve always said it just points to the season they’re in. And I still think that’s true to a certain extent. But then, a lot of Gimple’s symbols have double meanings.

For example, in this first scene in Slabtown when Beth first wakes up, if you notice the clock behind Dawn, it reads 5:20, which proves our clock theory. The clock points to episode 5x04, which this is.

But it’s SO much more complicated than that. Beth’s time at Grady is spent on the 5th floor, and we constantly see room numbers in the 500s in the background. Again, it could all just point to this being S5, but why the overkill? And not all the numbers are ONLY 5s. There are other numbers included.

Meanwhile, we’ve also seen fives since then, in S6, at least. Probably some in S7 as well, though I’m not going to remember every instance off the top of my head. I’ve also said before that symbolism always points forward, rather than back. So how to do all these things jive? Why put 5s in later seasons to point backward?

Well, even before this theory I could have answered that. I do believe all symbolism points forward, but in this case, it’s okay to use the 5s because Beth will be back. If they’re pointing us back toward S5, there must be a reason. Something that’s still relevant. And we believe that is Beth being alive, right?

Well, @wdway wasn’t satisfied with this explanation (and I’m so glad she wasn’t). She started messing around with the numbers, trying to figure out what ELSE all the 5s mean besides just S5 and it’s importance. And she realized something.

Gimple took over and, for all intents and purposes, started Beth’s arc in S4, right? (Yes, she was in S2 and S3, but she only had a small arc in S2 and had very small part in S3. Nothing major. Nothing that was hers alone. In 4x01, she came front and center with the Bethyl hug.)

I’d also like to point out that S4 is when all the foreshadowing and parallels began. Yeah, we can look back at earlier seasons and see where things began or were built on, but the instant S4 began we already had tons of clues. Clues in Beth’s cell, clues at the Big Spot, Sasha/Ty/Bob stuff, and by 4b, they were already heavily paralleling Glenn, Rick, school buses, etc. We didn’t see anything to that extent in earlier seaosns. So S4 was really the beginning of Beth’s (and many of the other characters’) current arc.

So take a look at this:

S4 =1, S5=2, S6=3, S7=4, S8=5.

Could it be that all the fives actually point to S8? That it’s not a season number at all, but rather the number of seasons from the beginning of the arc until all the symbolism is fulfilled?

I love this idea. It wouldn’t have worked for S6 or S7. Only S8.

Now let’s look at some specific numbers.

We’ve seen a LOT of clocks that read 5:10. There are three in particular that come to mind: Rick’s watch when Carol finds it at Terminus, reads 5:10.

Then there’s all the clocks in 5x09. Seriously, EVERY clock in that episode points to 5:10.

And then there’s Glenn’s watch in 6x03, right before his death fake out. There are probably more, but let’s talk about the clocks.

We have ample evidence that the hour on the clocks = the season number and the minute hand = the episode number. So if that’s the case, these clocks really all point to 5x02. And that makes no sense. While there is some TD symbolism to be found in 5x02, there’s not enough that’s significant enough to Beth’s arc for SO many clocks, especially after the fact, to point back to it. Why would Gimple do this?

We’ve always seen these clocks as pointing to 5x10. Even though I’ve always known that doesn’t entirely fit the pattern, I’ve always accepted it because 1) symbols often have multiple meanings/interpretations and 2) 5x10 = music box. So we’re really not imagining that. It’s SUPER important. So I was always cool with it deviating from the clock pattern a little bit.

But with this 5 theory, 5 is actually the fifth season from when Beth’s current arc started. It shows we had to go 5 seasons before seeing the fulfillment of the symbolism. So if we substitute an 8 for the 5, suddenly, this clock points at 8x02. And guys, look at where we see these clocks. 1) After Carol is separated from TF, and then saves and reunites with them. 2) In Ty’s death hallucination, which is rife with Beth symbolism and all kinds of contradictions. Where Beth herself appears and “keeps singing” even after her death. 3) Right before Glenn’s death fake out, which had a crap-ton of parallels to Beth. He was revealed to be alive a few episodes later.

Pretty convincing if you ask me. We’ve also seen some 101s, though not as many, which also point to 8x02 as being a super important episode.

@wdway even pointed out that in 5x09, Beth was there in the hallucination, but not physically. That’s also true of 5x10 and the music box. She’s there symbolically, but not literally. So perhaps the 5 = S5 being her physical arc, and S8 (five seasons in) we’ll see her physically again.

Other random 5s:

There’s one on the bus in 5x05. With all the bus stuff we’ve noticed this time around, I think it’s safe to say we’ll see the bus fulfillment in S8.

There’s a 5 on a pipe in 5x07 when Rick and Daryl are discussing the plan to rescue Beth and Carol from Grady. So maybe it shows that the real rescue/reunion won’t happen until the 5th season (S8).

I know in 6x01, we saw a sign that said, “Quint,” which means five. It also happens to mean some of the equipment (the ladder, I think, which is also significant) of a fire truck. But once again, there are some suspicious sequences in 6x01 during Operation Lead the Walkers Away that point to Beth stuff. And we have the Quint sign.

Here’s a great one that @wdway found in S6. In 6x10, when Rick and Daryl first meet Jesus, there are some numbers (cigarette prices) on the marquee behind them. It reads 5.45 and 5.69. I know there’s been a lot of speculation about what these numbers mean. Most have to do with comic book numbers, which is important. And applying this theory to them makes it even better.

See, if you put the 5 aside for a minute, CB issue #45 is where Andrea wakes up from her gunshot wound to the head, and finds herself alone, without the rest of TF, because they presumed she was dead and left her behind. Issue #69 is where TF arrives at Alexandria.

I know people zeroed in on the numbers as being CB numbers before, but the 5s are harder to explain. Nobody woke up from a GSW in S5 (that we know of; of course there’s the music box, but no one that the GA would know about or that we obviously saw). And while TF did arrive at Alexandria in S5, why would they feel the need to reiterate that in 6x10 when Rick and Daryl meet Jesus?

But let’s swap out the 5s for 8s. Perhaps this then shows that in S8, the person who survived the GSW, like Andrea, will both wake up, and arrive at Alexandria. Make sense?

We have numbers in Coda that point to 8x03 and 8x04 once you swap them out with the 8.

Slabtown has some interesting ones too. We see the numbers 550 and 556 very clearly.

@wdway did some research I wanted to include here. The CB issue numbers pan out, and obviously there are only 16 episodes in a season, so she started looking at the series numbers. Episode 50 was Us. Like 5x02, while there is some Beth stuff to be found there (*coughs Daryl claims the strawberries*) there really isn’t tons in that episode for it to be point there. So instead of 50, she chopped the final number off and they both point to 55. Episode 55 is Slabtown. Interesting right? Which means episode 56, just to be thorough, is Self Help with all the bus stuff, including the number 5 on the bus. Also, that’s when they acquire the fire truck. Just saying.

So the series numbers from Slabtown point us toward episode 5x04 (Slabtown) and 5x05 (Self Help). If we swap out the numbers, that becomes 8x04 and 8x05.

Are we seeing how this works? I’m absolutely sure there are tons of more instances of 5s throughout the show, and I’ll continue to look for them as I rewatch. Like I said at the beginning, I won’t remember every instance.

But if the 5s point, not only to S5 but to S8, which is five seasons after the arc began, that makes way more sense than them JUST pointing us back to S5. And most of the cases we’ve examined specifically point to 8x01-8x05, which include the episodes Gimple already said would melt our brains.

The evidence is stacking up, my friends. Is it October yet?

#td #beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance

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