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the-rewatch-rewind · 8 months

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My final guest episode, with not one but two very special guests!

Transcript below the break

Jane

Hello and welcome back to The Rewatch Rewind! My name is Jane and this is the podcast where I count down my top 40 most frequently rewatched movies in a 20-year period. Today I will be discussing number 7 on my list: Disney’s 2001 comedy The Princess Diaries, directed by Garry Marshall, written by Gina Wendkos based on a book by Meg Cabot, and starring Anne Hathaway and Julie Andrews.

Mia Thermopolis (Anne Hathaway) is a shy and unpopular 15-year-old just trying to survive high school, when the grandmother she’s never met, Clarisse Renaldi (Julie Andrews), shows up and reveals that she is the queen of a small European country called Genovia. Since Mia’s father, whom she also never met, has recently died and had no other children, Mia is now first in line for the throne. While she’s still deciding whether to accept this job, Mia receives princess lessons and a makeover, and has to deal with how these changes affect her relationships, especially with her best friend Lilly Moscovitz (Heather Matarazzo) and Lilly’s brother Michael (Robert Schwartzman).

This movie is so fun and iconic that I felt like I needed two special guests to talk about it with me, so in a few moments I will be joined by my sister Rosemary, whom you may remember from the Newsies episode, and my friend Sophie, whom you may remember from the Enchanted episode. But first, the breakdown of when I watched this movie after I started keeping track: three times in 2003, three times in 2004, five times in 2005, twice in 2006, twice in 2007, twice in 2008, once in 2009, once in 2010, once in 2012, twice in 2013, once in 2015, once in each year from 2017 through 2020, twice in 2021, and once in 2022. Yes, I watched this movie 30 times in 20 years, and I would do it again. So let’s talk about it!

Hello, Sophie and Rosemary.

Sophie

Hi!

Rosemary

Hello.

Jane

Welcome back to both of you.

Sophie

Thank you. Happy to be back.

Rosemary

Thanks for having me back.

Jane

I'm so glad to have you both here, even though you've never met each other before, but I know that you both love this movie, as do I. So I'm very excited to talk about Princess Diaries. I think we can start with how we got introduced to this movie, if we remember. I know that Rosemary saw it in theaters and I did not.

Sophie

That's too bad. Rosemary, you want to go first?

Rosemary

Sure! Um, I don't remember exactly all of the circumstances. I do remember going to see it in theaters with my mom and it was really good. We really enjoyed it. And we're like, Jane will love this, and really liked the line, “Goodbye trolley people!” That really tickled us. And then I do remember around the same time, the local like, bookstore and newspaper, I think, put on this contest where someone could, like, write an essay about why they should be like princess for the day or something. And one of my best friends at the time was like the winner of it.

Sophie

Wow.

Rosemary

So that was when I like, realized that, oh, these are actually books too, and then got really into the books around the same time as well.

Sophie

That's so cool.

Rosemary

So those are my like, early memories of Princess Diaries.

Sophie

Yeah, I actually can't remember if I got into the books or the movie first. Probably the movie, but I would say my trajectory was really similar. Like if I saw the movie first, then I read the books immediately after. And I probably saw like a trailer for the movie on Disney Channel or whatever because I… I do distinctly remember, like they did this thing where like they would if if the movie or show or whatever had a song, they would do, like a music video of whatever the big song was in the movie, and show that as like a commercial for whatever it was. And then in this case, because they're, I mean, there was Miracles Happen and they probably did a music video of that. But they also did, they would show like a scene from whatever it was like, sneak peek into our latest whatever. And so they did the the tea scene at the consulate where the “Gosh, Gee whiz, golly-wolly” exchange happens. And so of course, like me and all my other little 6-year-old friends were saying “shut up” to each other and thought that was the peak of hilarity, which I'm sure our parents were thrilled with. So that was, that was definitely a big, a big scene for us.

Rosemary

And then I also remember like, early on, like shortly after it came out on VHS or whatever, for Jane's birthday, her like birthday party was like… I remember our family, but I don't know who else was there, and we all just, like, gathered in the living room on the pull out couch with the like, little like 12 inch VHS player. And we all like gathered around it and watched Princess Diaries.

Sophie

That's so fun.

Rosemary

And that was like your 12th birthday party or something.

Jane

Yeah. Yeah. No, I I was trying to- cause I definitely remember you and mom going to see it and and coming back and being like, “There was this really funny ‘goodbye trolley people’ scene!” And I was like, what does that even mean? [laughs] But I don't remember like I assumed that I'd seen it before that birthday party, because otherwise why would I have asked to watch it for my birthday?

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

I didn't see it in theaters, but maybe we had rented it or something before that. But I definitely remember that because I we watched it for my birthday party and then since we had rented it, we had it for a few more days and I watched it like multiple times all of the days that we had it because it was also like my birthday was during spring break. And that was only like a couple of months after our aunt died. So it was like a weird time and I was like, kind of sad during that time. But like that week, I just remember like, watching this movie over and over and just being like, “I love this so much! This is the thing that makes me happy!” But I wasn't keeping track of movies yet because that was 2002 and so I'm like, OK, well, if I if I'd started a year earlier, then this movie would have so many more watches.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

Because as it is, I've watched it 30 times in in the 20 years that I counted. But I don't remember how many times I had watched it before, but I definitely was just, like, so in love with it. I'm not exactly sure what it was about this movie that I was so excited about when I first started watching it.

Rosemary

Well, it's very… it's a very comforting movie.

Sophie

Mm-hmm.

Jane

Yeah.

Rosemary

Like, it feels very like warm and like a hug.

Sophie

Yeah. I do… like, I always worry with the movies that I feel that way about. Like, is it nostalgia or is it really a good movie? I think this one airs on the side of it's really a just a good movie.

Jane

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I I would agree. I just I every time I watch it, I'm just like, this is just so nice.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

It's, it there's, I mean there's conflict and there's like a few uncomfortable moments. But overall it's just like a nice story.

Sophie

Yeah.

Rosemary

And it has a good it's a good tone between silly, goofy and also like very sweet and sincere, and like it never feels like overreaching in the, like emotional moments that it hits.

Sophie

Yeah.

Rosemary

Like it all feels very like genuine and earned and like realistic.

Sophie

Yeah, for like for finding out that you're a Princess when you're 15. It's a really realistic movie.

Rosemary

Well, yes. Is it based on a true story?

Sophie

But no but I get what you're saying. Like the premise is absurd and at the same time it's very grounded in reality. And I I appreciate that, like, the characters seem to be genuine, like good hearted people. I love that people apologize when they do the wrong thing. Like, and Jane and I were talking before we started recording about the some of the changes between the book and the movie. And I think making Clarisse a nice person is one of the things that this movie does really well. Because book Clarisse would never have apologized to Mia for making her feel bad or, like, not listening to her. And then you get Julie Andrews, who's like, “I'm really sorry that I judged before I, you know, heard your side of the story.”

Jane

One of my favorite stories about this movie coming to be is that when they were talking to Meg Cabot about how they were going to adapt it, somebody was telling her, like, “We're thinking about, like, killing off the dad and expanding the grandmother’s role.” Because because the dad is alive in the books. And like, “We have someone, like a really big star in mind to play the grandmother and we think like, we should expand her role and get rid of the dad.” And Meg Cabot was like, “Well, who… who you were thinking?” and they said “Julie Andrews,” and she immediately went, “Kill the dad.”

[all laugh]

Rosemary

Yeah.

Jane

And Julie Andrews… this was an interesting point in her career because she had recently undergone surgery that caused her to lose a lot of her singing voice. Like that was in the mid 90s. And so she was kind of. In retirement to a certain degree, like she wasn't really sure what the rest of her career might look like. And this was also her first Disney movie since Mary Poppins.

Sophie

Wow.

Jane

And it's just so cool to see her sort of mentoring Anne Hathaway, who is making her feature film debut in a big Disney movie, which is exactly what Julie Andrews had done with Mary Poppins. And first of all, just… hard to believe that this is Anne Hathaway's first movie because she's so… she carries the movie so well, like I do think that's a big part of why you get that grounded feel is like she brings such a like realistic sense to the role of Mia. And I just think she was perfectly cast. And I also just think it's so fun that she's kind of following in the footsteps of Julie Andrews. I mean, obviously her career has looked very different overall, but it's kind of fun that they both have the same introduction to movies.

Sophie

Yeah.

Rosemary

That is really interesting that Julie Andrews didn't do more Disney movies after Mary Poppins.

Jane

Yeah, right? Cause you think, she's such a Disney icon.

Rosemary

Yeah, you would think that like they would be really fighting for her to have roles and stuff.

Sophie

Keep her in. Keep her in the family, in the fold.

Jane

Yeah, that was that was something that I hadn't, I wasn't really aware of until relatively recently. I was looking at more facts about this movie, and I was like, wait really? It's just very interesting. I'm not really sure how that conversation went, of like convincing her to do this movie if she was, like, really excited about it, or if she needed some persuasion. But I'm really glad she did because like, I'm sure I had seen Mary Poppins and Sound of Music multiple times before Princess Diaries came out. But, like, that's really what made me become a Julie Andrews fan is seeing her just totally kill it in this role.

Sophie

Yeah, I think Mary Poppins probably was my first, but this is the first that I like, really remember of her.

Jane

Yeah. So the two of them, I mean, everybody in this movie is great, but I love the dynamic between the two of them and like the whole scene when they're like at the arcade together is really nice, and and just like seeing their characters relationship transformed throughout the movie is great. And I… just thinking about like, yes, this is a romantic story and like there's some focus on her and Michael, but there's so many other relationships that are really important and really focused on in this movie and like, Mia and her grandmother, Mia and her mother, Mia and Lilly. Like there's friendships and family relationships, and it's like, and there's a romance, too. But it's kind of like, that's not really what the majority of the movie is focused on, which I think has always resonated with me.

Sophie

Yeah, I would definitely agree that although the Josh versus Michael conflict is a really big one, it is a romantic conflict and yet it's not like… it's not romantic. It's just, like, kind of an allegory for Mia trying to, in much the same way that to be a Princess or not to be a Princess is like her growing up and developing. Like maybe the things that I thought I wanted aren't the things that are going to make me the happiest. And I do sort of like in the book that she's always had this kind of pining crush for Michael, I think that's very sweet, but it's nice that Josh serves as like a, this, you know, this is what I've thought I've been working towards this whole time and then it turns out it actually is really horrible and I don't like it. And I would rather do something else. I think it serves the same sort of purpose that she's like, growing up and becoming more like sure of herself and confident.

Rosemary

Yeah, I think things that I've always liked about the movie, like the romantic teen sort of aspects of it, is that it feels more realistic to what people actually go through in their high school years than a lot of teen movies. Where they're like, “Oh, this is my true love. I'm going to marry them. I'm gonna…” you know, whereas like Mia has this crush on this guy and like, she gets all giggly and flustered when she's around him and she's not smooth and neither really is he. But, you know…

Jane

He thinks he is, though.

Rosemary

He thinks he is and and I feel like that's very like, sweetly portrayed. And like a very innocent like teen romance feel. But I think a lot of teen movies, they rush into being way too adult and like heavy feeling, but I've always, I've always really liked that Mia doesn't… she doesn't... Josh doesn't notice her because really, any other reason other than because she's a Princess. She doesn't have smooth pick-up lines. She's not like, cool and confident. There's not really any focus on, “Oh she's like, really sexy. So he’s, of course he notices her.” It's really just because he wants to be… have some fame. And then like this guy that's like her best friend's brother, like, I feel like that's stuff that happens to people, you know? It's like you're around these people for your whole growing up years and you're like, “Well, I have feelings. I don't know what these are. But maybe I'm in love with you. But maybe I just…” you know, trying to figure things out. And like she wants to get her first kiss. And it just feels so sweet and innocent in a way that I think a lot of teen movies really miss that point and are really like thrown into like much bigger, like, “I'm desperately in love with you” or “I want to sleep with you” or things like that. And this movie really like, keeps it, like at least more of what my experience as a teenager was where it was like, “Oh, I have a crush on this person. I'm awkward, and then we move on or we hope they notice us. But then when they do, I don't know what to do and…” So that aspect of, it does have that romantic story, but it definitely feels like, yes, these are teenagers who are, like, feeling things for the first time. And what does that mean, and what does that look like?

Sophie

Right. It's very sweet and innocent. She's like, very concerned with if her foot's gonna pop or not. Like she's not…. there's no like, you were saying, it's not like desperate. She's not like, this is, you know, “My my parents say I can't be with this person. And so therefore I have to have them, and we have to run off and get married and then he's going to turn me into a vampire” or whatever. And she wants to be kissed and she wants to have this little like old movie moment. And then she does get that and it's… But it's… with Michael it also is a little bit of maturity. Like, “I don't like him because he's, you know, cute or popular or he has a boat or whatever” it's, you know, “You… you noticed me. You saw the real me and you like me anyway.”

Rosemary

“You saw me when I was invisible.”

Sophie

Tears. And then all the lights turn on and the fountains come on and we’re in the garden with the roses and yeah, so.

Jane

Yeah, that's it's interesting because so much of the movie feels so like relatively realistic given the premise. And then that moment, it does kind of seem a little bit fairy tale-ish. But it's also explained because multiple times throughout the movie, The Queen is talking about how she needs the gardens to be fancier.

Sophie

“Make me an Eden.”

Jane

Yeah, exactly. So they're like working on the gardens the whole time. And so like that kind of that pays off in that moment, too. And it's like, it's not just this came out of nowhere. It's like, this is what the garden needed to be beautiful for!

Rosemary

And I love that we keep going back to, “Yeah, this movie is realistic. The story is realistic” because, OK, first of all, she finds out she's a Princess for the first time when she's 15. And Josh, who's, like a 15/16 year old, has a boating license? And his own boat?

Sophie

[laughing] Yeah.

Rosemary

But otherwise it's it's realistic.

Sophie

They go to this high school that can rent out an entire private beach with a DJ and catering. What even is this party? They’re… Josh is on his boat. The the girls are doing their like studio sound system concert. There's like random food with whole watermelons, for some reason. They do like a close up shot on this kids plate, and he's got half a watermelon filled with grapes like, what are you doing? Who provided this? Who is this for?

Jane

And in a deleted scene they did a banana dance.

Sophie

Right. Yeah.

Jane

But I mean, I guess part of it is explained like, that it is a really fancy rich school because, like, it seems like her royal family members were paying for it, which she seemed to be somewhat unaware of.

Sophie

In lieu of having a relationship, I'll just like send my child to private school and buy a Faberge carousel for her bedroom.

Jane

Yeah, because of course.

Sophie

I did really want that though as a child. The little music box thing. And the diary that opens with the locket. That was the coolest.

Jane

That is really cool. I also think it's funny though, because like the books like the whole conceit of the books is that they are her Diaries, like she's writing them, and in the movie she doesn't even get the diary until the end.

Sophie

Yeah.

Rosemary

Well, you know, but OK, so books that are turned into movies. Generally, I'm like, the book is better. Why do we even have the movie? The movie tried, but it didn't do anything. And I feel very differently about this. I…love Princess Diaries as a movie and I love the book series and they are two very different things.

Sophie

Completely separate entities.

Rosemary

Yeah. And also all I want in the world is like a miniseries that takes place in the early 2000s in New York, where the books take place and shows these teenagers in the early 2000s, actually doing what the books are and like, have it be really good. And I would pay a lot of money to see that. So whatever major streaming service is listening to this, I would love that and to have actually have the main grandma and the dad who's alive and justice for Tina Hakim Baba.

Sophie

God bless!

Rosemary

Because we love her and she needs her moment.

Sophie

She sure does.

Rosemary

So I would love that.

Sophie

Yeah. Well, I I volunteer to to write it. I I I will be in the writers’ room once the strike is over, but with the caveat that it can't be gritty. Like they can't, it can't be dark. There can't be, like, you know, we're all really depressed and sneaking around and like, it has to be as like sweet, but a little more aged up than what the movie was.

Rosemary

Yes.

Jane

Yeah, cause I do definitely feel like the movie is for a younger audience than the books.

Rosemary

Mm-hmm.

Sophie

Yeah, which is weird because I'm sure that I started reading them when I was like 7 years old and she's talking about, like, getting her period at the Moscovitz's house and like wanting to make out with someone at Lilly's bat mitzvah. And I was like, what is what is this?

Rosemary

And then there's that, like, weird stalker man that like is stalking Lilly and wants to see her feet, and…

Sophie

Yeah.

Rosemary

But like, I loved that series so much. Reading those books like, really got me into, like, YA realistic fiction? Realistic. We're going with that again.

[Jane and Sophie laugh]

Rosemary

But like I was obsessed with, like, YA books all through, like middle and high school. And I think it really did start with Princess Diaries. And I was always, like, so excited when a new one came out and would like just devour it. Like even like last year when the…or earlier this year? I don't know. When Quarantine Princess came out, I was like, We have a new one. We still need more of this story.

Jane

How many books are there now? I mean, I guess there's some that aren't, like technically part of that series and…

Rosemary

Yeah. So there's ten that encapsulate her, like high school years, and then there's like a few extra ones that go in there that are like little short ones. And then there's the one I think it's like her wedding, maybe? Yes, that one came out, I think maybe in, like, 2015-ish. And then there's Quarantine Princess, which came out like in blog format in 2020 and then got like compiled and more things added to it and came out like within the last year. So Mia is still around. She survived COVID.

Jane

And there's the spin off ones about her half-sister, right?

Rosemary

Yes. Yeah. So then… I think around the same time that that the one that came out in 2015 that I can't remember the name at this moment, Meg Cabot also made like a middle grade series that there's a younger half-sister that came into the picture. And so she has her diaries as well. So there's like, supplemental content there. And I I read the first one. And it was very sweet and good, but I don't think I read any of the other ones.

Sophie

I just found out about that. So that's all new to me, but I did... I did love the little like Princess Diaries and a half, much like The Lion King 1 1/2 I think is the best Lion King. I think some of the Princess Diaries and 1/2 are my favorites. I think the only one that I actually had was the one where she and Michael do Habitat for Humanity together.

Rosemary

Yeah, I was gonna say, I was like, isn't there one where they, like, build houses together or something?

Sophie

Yeah.

Rosemary

Yes. And then there's like a Christmas one too, I think.

Sophie

OK. And then that's probably why I didn't have that one.

Jane

Being Jewish.

Sophie

Yeah because they needed like Lilly’s Hanukkah or whatever. And then I also had, I don't know if you know about these, there's one like companion book written I think by Clarisse. And then there's one written by Paolo and they're like… It's essentially The Care and Keeping of You, but the care and keeping of a princess?

Rosemary

Mm-hmm.

Sophie

And so Clarisse's one is like etiquette. All these etiquette rules for like dining at a fancy party. And then Paolo’s is like, how to, you know, do hair and makeup and stuff. And I love those.

Rosemary

Yeah, I remember reading those too. Is that when they talk about the cousin Sebastiano that like, doesn't finish his words and then he's like, “Please pass the butt.”

Sophie

[laughing] Probably.

Jane

I remember that character.

Sophie

Don't be like him and say “Pass the butt” at dinner, especially when meeting with heads of state.

Rosemary

So there's a lot of Princess Diaries content is what… what we can sum up this conversation with.

Jane

Definitely.

Rosemary

And all of it is good.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

I feel like, I mean, I know you were, like, way more into the books than I was.

Rosemary

Mm-hmm.

Jane

But I I feel like we read some of them together.

Rosemary

I’m sure we did.

Jane

Like you'd already read them. But like, we used to read stuff out loud to each other a lot. So I think that that was one of the things, at least… cause I remember really liking the third book, and now I'm like, I have no idea what even happens in the third book.

Rosemary

The third book is the best. It’s really good.

Sophie

If that's the one with the non-denominational winter formal, that's I totally agree.

Rosemary

And that's when Michael makes a computer program to tell her that he loves her.

Jane

Oh yeah, okay.

Rosemary

I would read that little section like over and over and over again, and I would be like, if only someone would love me enough to make a computer program that says-

Sophie

Aww, to code for you.

Rosemary

Yeah, and it says, like, “I love Princess Mia.” And then she, like, gets up and runs away because she's like, all embarrassed. And then she's like, later they talk and she's like, “I thought you were making fun of me,” and he's like, “Never.”

Sophie

Aww, what a sweetie. I I love Michael.

Rosemary

I love Michael too.

Sophie

I think casting for him was great. He's so freaking weird in the movie and I love it in the scene where he's he's like still kind of mad at Mia and he comes over to the house. And she, like, gives him the last check for the car. He puts in it between his teeth as he walks out of the door.

Jane

Yeah, for no reason.

Sophie

He has nothing in his hands. What is wrong with him? I love him.

Rosemary

But he's also really weird in the books too.

Jane

Yeah, yeah, it worked.

Rosemary

“He fixes cars, he plays guitar,”

Rosemary and Sophie

“and he can sing. He is so hot.”

Jane

“He is wicked sweet.” I think the person who said “he is wicked sweet” is the infamous cousin Meredith, who was Anne Hathaway's like… I don't know if she was technically her guardian. She was only a few years older than her. But like, I think that Anne Hathaway was still 17 when they started filming. But she was… she turned 18 during filming and that was… helpful to the filmmakers, because then she could work longer. But she was such a baby!

Sophie

I know. Oh, she's so cute.

Rosemary

No, I've always loved Michael. I think he's a great character. He's a great person. He invented a robotic surgical arm in the books that, like, does heart surgery.

Sophie

Yeah, he's- I mean, he was… He's great. I… like I also I really get it as like someone who had – had? has - an older brother who, like all my friends were like, “Wow your brother's actually kind of hot.” And I'm over here, like Lilly, being like, what are you talking about? Are you blind? Because I live with the guy. But yeah, I definitely related to their to their family, as like neurotic Jews, just hanging out.

Jane

I think it's really funny how, like the moment at when they're like about to dance and at the ball at the end and and Mia doesn't know if Michael's going to show up or not and then he comes in. He like comes through the crowd and he passes Lilly and he like tickles her or something. It's like they have a weird little sibling moment there before he goes to dance with Mia and it's just like-

Rosemary

I knew you were gonna bring that up because I think of it every time, Jane’s just like, “It's so weird when he tickles her stomach!”

Jane

It is weird, but it's it's like, a good kind of weird. Of like like I think that too often, again going back to the whole like, romance versus other relationships thing. I think that that too often in romantic stories, it's like, they kind of forget about how everybody, how they're connected to everybody else once the like two get together. And I think that it's nice that their friends are there too. Like that, that Lilly and Jeremiah are also there and like it's showing that that it's like they're all connected and it's not just this. And that like Lilly is really the one who pushes Mia to to realize what being a princess could mean and how that could be a good thing and like a responsibility.

Sophie

Yeah. And I I also, I would agree with you, Jane, that it's weird. I think it's, maybe not on purpose, but like that is a very like, at least in my experience like my brother would do that too, and it would be very awkward, but he would like mean it in a loving way.

Jane

Right.

Sophie

He just doesn't know what else to do.

Jane

Yeah. No. And I I think that's great. I mean it's it's weird but, like, I I love that I love all the little weird things that happen. That's a big part of why I love this movie. There's so many weird little moments that you just kind of like, why is that there? But also I love it. I mean, just the whole thing with like when she breaks the statue, and puts the-

Rosemary

“Maybe it's string cheese.”

Jane

Yeah, exactly! She puts the finger in the mouth of the statue and and that scene is really funny too. I love when she breaks it and she immediately like shushes the statue. Like, “Don't tell anyone that I broke you.” And then like, she just sticks it in there and it's just like kind of a throwaway thing. And then it comes back in the best way. “They're famous for their cheese. Maybe it's string cheese,” and it's just, ah, it's so good. But like that, that serves no purpose, but it's hilarious.

Rosemary

Also, how did she break that statue? Like isn't it made out of like marble? Like…

Sophie

Right.

Rosemary

That she would just like touch it and it would break? Like what? What is that statue made out of?

Jane

That was an untapped part of the story that she also has super strength. But just like nobody- that's why she always falls down and stuff like she does. She can't really control her own strength.

Sophie

Yeah, gravity is too strong.

Rosemary

They would be like, “We can't put that in there because then it would not be realistic.”

Jane

[laughs] But we'll have hints for it anyway. Ah man.

Sophie

Yeah, and and that her first idea is to reattach it with saliva. Like, that's good work.

Jane

[laughing] Uh, I love it. I love it so much. Just like fun moments like that is really, I think what makes it such an enjoyable movie, because like just, there's stuff that still makes me laugh when I've seen it more than 30 times.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

Just like…

Rosemary

“Please don't crush my soy nuts.”

Jane

“Your soy nuts are safe.” Ohh man. Yeah, just so many great moments. And I mean, I do enjoy the movie Princess Diaries 2, but it just like has nothing to do with anything. I feel like it's so weird that they just like went ahead and made it even though the guy who played Michael couldn't be in it and they’re just like, “Well, Michael's not important anymore.”

Sophie

Yeah.

Rosemary

The fact that they made them break- “Oh, we're still friends, but we're broken up. And now I'm going to like, go fall in love with someone else.” That is not Mia Thermopolis. She is obsessed with Michael. She's in love with Michael. I don't care. Book, movie, whatever. It's fine. Princess Diaries 2 is fine as a movie, but it's a totally different universe. One where Raven is randomly there. And there's mattress surfing.

Sophie

A an African Princess.

Rosemary

Yeah. It’s just-

Sophie

Like, get someone from Africa! I mean, she's American.

Jane

Like, is she an African prin-? Like it's we don't know who she is, she's not explained. It's just like she shows up and and Mia’s like, “Oh it’s you!”

Sophie

“It’s my best friend!”

Jane

And it's like, who is this? We've never seen her before. Please introduce her to the audience!

Sophie

I do. I do wonder if at the end of the first movie they like on the plane to Genovia they enter some sort of like slipstream wormhole situation and just like land in another universe. And that's why everything is crazy in the second movie.

Jane

The castle that they see out the airplane window is completely different in the second movie.

Sophie

I do love it, in like a very campy removed from book and first movie reality way. But yeah it's it's not like… It's not the first one.

Jane

No, and it has a terrible script, like so many of the lines are so forced, and it's like, man, these actors were working really hard to sell this.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

Like, certain certain moments just, like, don't work at all. There are funny lines in the second one, but I just think the the first one… And I know that like a lot of the script of this movie was changed by Garry Marshall like while they were filming it. They talked about that in - oh, I should mention the commentary, because, while this commentary is not quite as iconic as Ella Enchanted I do… I have seen this a lot of times with the commentary with Julie Andrews and Anne Hathaway having tea and Julie Andrews mostly just wants to talk about the tea, like the literal tea, not like spilling the metaphorical tea of the movie. She's just very excited about having tea. But Anne Hathaway, like, remembers the names of everybody and is, like, wants to give everybody credit for everything. But they talk a lot about how Garry Marshall would expect them to be, like, ready with the lines, but also ready to just like, chuck the entire script out on the day and be like, “No, actually now we're going to do it this way and say completely different lines.” And so a lot of it I think was… not exactly improvised, but sort of changed last minute, and if you watch other Garry Marshall movies, you can see that there's just so many things that he just likes to have in his movies that don't have anything to do with anything. And I think that's part of what makes this movie weird. And it's part of what makes it work too. I think that it feels more cohesive because it's so… there's the Garry Marshall trademark through it all. And that he had his children work on it and gave it sort of a family feel, I think really worked for this one.

Sophie

Yeah. Rosemary, I was saying to Jane that I need nepotism justice for Penny, because Penny is the only Marshall member that is not in this movie. And he mentioned in… I can't remember if it's the commentaries or like, one of the special features that he's like, “They wanted me to cast Penny as the queen and I said absolutely not.”

[all laugh]

Jane

That's got to be a joke, though. I don't think that anyone considered Penny Marshall for the queen, but that would be a hilarious movie. It'd be a very different movie, but it would be hilarious.

Sophie

Yeah. Well, Penny Marshall and actually Carrie Fisher in one of my favorite childhood books they did like a star-studded Emperor's New Clothes reading, and Penny Marshall and Carrie Fisher played the ladies in waiting, who are like very bitchy and talk about the queen behind her back. It's fantastic.

Jane

That sounds amazing.

Rosemary

Yeah, what role could Penny Marshall have played?

Sophie

That's a good question. They could have taken out the puppet and had Penny be the puppet instead. On strings.

Jane

But they didn't use the puppet thing at all. The person who says “Maybe it's string cheese” I believe is Garry Marshall's wife, so she- Penny could have just been one of those like background people.

Sophie

Yeah, she could have been at the state dinner.

Jane

She could have been the pear juggler.

Sophie

That would have been great.

Rosemary

Or one of the reporters.

Jane

Yeah, Suki- What's… Suki Sanchez?

Sophie

Suki Sanchez? Yeah.

Rosemary

No, we don't want to get rid of Suki Sanchez. I mean, one of the ones that were like, “I’m from Teen Scene Magazine!”

Jane

Oh yeah. OK.

Sophie

“She's wearing a grunge look.” No, she's just wet.

Jane

That is so funny. I love that moment. It's like, “She's styling a wet sort of grunge-look hairdo.” It's like yes.

Rosemary

“And is wearing a sweatshirt, jeans, and Docs.”

Jane

“…jeans and Docs.”

Rosemary

The important things.

Sophie

Yeah, I do, I do appreciate that the Docs are like the one thing that made it from book to movie. Because those are very important.

Rosemary

They are her trademark.

Jane

They mentioned in the commentary that like originally, that scene was going to be like very regal and she was going to be in her ball gown and stuff and they changed it so that they would have her looking like looking sort of… mot all put together and to show that her confidence was coming from within rather than from external things, but they still gave her a makeover. So like it was still partly external. I mean, OK, the makeover scene… I don't like makeover scenes in movies. There's too many of them. I will say this one is pretty good. Just because Larry Miller is hilarious: his weird like accent, and then his like, fake European language thing is just like-

Rosemary

“Brushka, Helga!”

Jane

Yeah. Like. Yeah, [imitates nonsense phrase]. Like, he just makes up stuff and it's just so silly and that, like his his little things that he says, like her eyebrows are named Frida and Kahlo. And it's like, really weird things. And so it's it's like not bad. But I also kind of wish that she hadn't had to have a makeover, and they could have just, like, left her hair as it was. I know… I know that her makeover is really to make her look more like Anne Hathaway, and she was like- Anne Hathaway had worn a wig and like fake eyebrows and stuff like that in her, like, earlier look. But I think it would have been really interesting to show like a quote unquote “ugly” person not having to change to be conventionally attractive and still being able to be empowered. But like of course, I'm not saying that they shouldn't have cast Anne Hathaway because she's great in this movie.

Sophie

Sure.

Jane

But at the same time, it's like, Anne Hathaway is also very conventionally attractive. So like, it would have been cool to have a like more not conventionally attractive looking person in this role, and just like, let her be who she is and look the way she looks. But that obviously wasn't what this movie was trying to do, but like that is one thing that that bothers me a little bit about it.

Sophie

Yeah.

Rosemary

She's also blonde in the books.

Jane

Yes.

Rosemary

Don't they give her a Pixie cut?

Sophie

Yeah, they cut- I think that's what Paolo's referencing when he says, “Next time a little shorter.” But yes, there's a very distinct reference in the book where she says her hair looks like an upside down yield sign because it's so it, like, here and then goes straight. You can't see me in the podcast, but I'm gesturing.

Jane

Yeah, it's like a triangle hair thing. I remember that being mentioned.

Rosemary

Yeah, I think about that a lot. Like,

Sophie

Yeah.

Rosemary

Her yield sign hair.

Sophie

I feel like part of what makes the makeover scene work - I I will agree with you, Jane. I think they give her way too much makeup for a 15-year-old, and then they just like the framing of it as like, she started out so hideous and then look what I… look what I made of this mess you gave me - is Paolo's, like you said, he's just so funny. He's so weird and a little gross, but like in an amusing sort of way. And she also seems to be… once they finish plucking her eyebrows, she seems to be really enjoying herself. She's got her Walkman. She's got cucumbers on her eyes. She's like, bopping to the music a little bit.

Jane

“The cucumber does nothing.”

Sophie

[laughing] Nothing.

Jane

Yeah, I don't object to it too much. It's just sort of the concept of…of makeovers is a little…

Speaker

Sophie

Jane

Obnoxious to me, but it it works. And I also think it's interesting because I believe from what I remember of the books, when she's exposed to the press in the books, it was actually the grandmother who told the press. And they changed it in the movie so that it was Paolo.

Sophie

“I, Paulo Puttanesca!”

Jane

That scene, just like, first of all, we also have to talk about Sandra Oh.

Sophie

Yes!

Rosemary

I was gonna bring her up too.

Jane

She, as the vice principal, Gupta, is so good. She's like only in it a little bit, but every moment she has is perfect. From the from the beginning, when she's like, “Morning, Lilly! …Lilly's friend.”

Sophie

Lilly’s friend!

Jane

And like but that scene when she like answers the phone with her iconic, “Gupta. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The Queen is coming. To Grove High School.” It's so good. And then and then when the Queen shows up and she's like fawning over her and, like, imitating her gestures and then just like, she, like, gives her this teacup. And it's like, “I'm sorry, we don't have finer China.” And then she just, like, hands a paper cup to Helen, the mom.”

Sophie

Uh-huh. “Here!”

Jane

So good. And then when Joe brings Paolo in and they have their whole little like routine of like he keeps starting to go and Joe, like, pushes him back is- that scene is just… There's just so much comedy gold there. And it's like it's amazing.

Sophie

Well, yeah, so Larry Miller is in two of my favorite childhood movies that came out around the same time: this one and Best in Show.

Jane

Yeah. And he's also in Mighty Wind. And he-

Sophie

Right.

Jane

He's he sets up one of Jennifer Coolidge's best moments too, when, because he's the one that she has one- They have one brain between them. The two of them, so yes.

Sophie

Oh, OK. Yeah. So he just like… The difference between those two roles, but they're both equally funny and weird.

Jane

Yeah, yeah. Best in Show he's awful. Like, I mean, I guess he's awful in this too. Like, his character is. But in that one, he's just like openly flirting with a married woman and then his- oh yeah, his job is like to talk people down…

Sophie

Down off ledges, yes.

Jane

…who are going to jump off building, but he's terrible at it. And he's just like, “Oh, they always jump.”

Sophie

“Their eyes pop out like grapes!”

Jane

[laughs] Ah, he's so he's such a silly man.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

But yes, so I enjoy him. I enjoy Sandra Oh, a lot. I enjoy Kathleen Marshall. I think that her Charlotte is…

Sophie

So sweet.

Jane

…a very a great character. I also… Not that I want there to be more romances, but I really like the thing between Clarisse and Joe and how they… their dancing scene is kind of… it- it has moments that remind me of The Sound of Music with Christopher Plummer like their dancing scene. But I love when Charlotte comes in and is like about to say something and then sees they’re having a moment and just like backs away.

Sophie

Yep, I’ll go away now. Yeah

Jane

My other favorite Charlotte moment is when [laughs] when she's worried because Mia hasn't shown up at the ball at the end and Clarisse is like, “Is everything all right?” And she goes. “Everything's perfect. Perfect? It's wonderful!” “You're not very good at lying, are you, Charlotte?”

Sophie

“No I'm not.”

Jane

“No, I'm not, your Majesty.” Oh, it's so good. So good. There's just… I think that's ultimately… like, I mean the story overall is great and the acting is great and all that. But like, I think just all those little fun little moments are really what keeps me returning to this movie is it's just like there's so many fun little scenes like that.

Rosemary

“And that's enough pear juggling.”

Jane

Such a good- like, ah, there's just, yeah. It's just such a fun little movie.

Sophie

It's funny, you mentioned the- the dance scene because I was thinking about how… like sweet, that is when he says, “You've been wearing black for far too long.” And in comparison, I had no recollection of this line from Lilly, but she says to Mia, she says, “The guy died, what, two months ago? I thought you'd gotten over it already.” What are you talking about?

Rosemary

Her dad died 8 weeks ago and you're like, “You should move on.”

Sophie

Chop chop!

Jane

Well, but also, she'd never met her dad. So like…

Sophie

Yeah.

Rosemary

True…

Jane

But also like I feel like that's also not a very long time to mourn your son? Because it's like…

Sophie

Right.

Jane

But I think that her husband died the previous year?

Sophie

Yeah, I think he's- I think he's referencing Rupert, not Phillipe.

Jane

“King Rupert, may he rest in peace.”

Sophie

“Rest in peace.”

Jane

That's from the second one though.

Sophie

I also didn't recall Pierre. I didn't recall there being a brother at all.

Jane

Oh yeah.

Sophie

Maybe he's not in the book, but…

Jane

Is he in the book?

Sophie

I don't remember him.

Jane

It's really like referenced, sort of offhandedly, like, “Oh yes, my my eldest Pierre wanted to abdicate and join the church.”

Sophie

Yeah

Jane

It's like, you have another kid?

Sophie

What?

Rosemary

Yeah.

Jane

Where's he? That… yeah, that was... I feel like that was kind of unnecessary.

Sophie

Yeah, there are a lot of changes that I feel like they really didn't need to make. Like Mr. G in the book is an algebra teacher, Helen’s boyfriend. And now all of a sudden, he's Mr. O'Connell and teaches debate, but also coaches baseball, but also teaches English?

Rosemary

Is just always there.

Jane

They have like four teachers in the school and they're just all in every class.

Sophie

There's Coach Harbula, there’s Vice Principal Gupta, and there's Mr. O'Connell and maybe there's one other person floating around.

Rosemary

The choir teacher.

Sophie

Oh, yes. Yes okay.

Jane

In the scene when when Mia puts the ice cream on Lana and Gupta’s like, “Oh, I was in a very important meeting,” it's just the four of them.

Speaker

It's just them having lunch.

Jane

Like, that's the entire staff of the- of the school.

Sophie

Of Grove High School.

Rosemary

“Lana got coned! Lana got coned!”

Jane

I was so confused by the “Lana got coned” chant for a long time.

Rosemary

Yes.

Jane

Because I couldn't tell what they were saying. And I was like, is that a thing?

Rosemary

I know!

Jane

Or is that just like, what people would have just decided to call this?

Sophie

It's the early 2000s, as opposed to late 2000s equivalent of getting slushied I guess. It's just something that happens in high schools with mean kids. I don't know. I also, speaking of not being able to understand what people are saying, for my entire life until this rewatch, I thought, Fontana said after the debate situation, I thought she said to Mia, “I thought you were speaking at the Believe It convention.”

Speaker

OK, I thought that was just me!

Sophie

It’s bulimic.

Jane

Yeah!

Sophie

Which makes so much more sense, but I was like… what? Who? What is this? Is this something that I should know about?

Rosemary

Oh, the Believe It? What?

Jane

Yeah, that's what I heard too.

Rosemary

No!

Jane

Because she's like, “Is it true you're speaking at the Believe It convention?” and-

Rosemary

No!

Jane

Yeah, okay.

Sophie

Like I can’t believe it.

Rosemary

It’s definitely “bulimic.”

Jane

Well, yes, that does make a lot more sense. But yeah, no, I couldn't understand that for a long time too. OK. I'm glad it's not just me. I thought once I figured out what they were saying, I was like...

Sophie

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.

Jane

Of course, that's what they're saying, but OK, yes.

Rosemary

I was definitely… it was one of the more recent rewatch is when I realized she was saying “a yachting yahoo.” I thought she was just saying “a yada yahoo.”

Jane

Ohh yeah, I thought that for at first for a while too. OK. Do you remember? I I have no clue when this was, but we used to have a computer in the basement and it didn't- It wasn't connected to the internet, we just used it for like writing papers and stuff?

Sophie

Typing and stuff, yeah.

Jane

And it would have… we made it so that the screen saver was like word art. And we… it was like, the showers upstairs didn't work, so we would always shower in the basement and we walk by this computer and like every time we would walk by, we would change the screensaver to the next line from that scene when Lilly and Mia are fighting and playing basketball, like that scene. So I just remember, like we would just, we quoted that whole scene in the screen saver on that computer for no reason just because it was a fun thing to do.

Rosemary

Yeah!

Sophie

That that very much tracks with what I know of your childhood and your relationship.

Jane

Yes. So I still think about that computer whenever I think about that scene.

Sophie

That’s funny.

Jane

But I'm I'm not sure if we wrote “yachting yahoo” or if we wrote, “yada yahoo.”

Rosemary

Yeah, I don't know. I also need to mention that I was a youth that kept a diary pretty faithfully, and there is a section of a diary that I had around that time where I was like, “I can't believe I keep saying the word ‘I.’ I should think about other people!” And it was because I was like, inspired by Mia Thermopolis's speech. But it was like, it's so funny. There’s this little section of like 12-year-old me being like, “I need to stop saying ‘I.’” Like it was just a new thought that had occurred to me.

Sophie

Sure. That's… that's sad and cute at the same time.

Jane

Yes.

Rosemary

So what else do we need to cover?

Sophie

Well, I definitely want to mention the soundtrack, which I think is one of my favorite parts of this movie. I think I… I mean, I've seen the movie a zillion times and like, had the VHS and the DVD, but I also had the CD and I must have listened to the CD until it was like, so scratched beyond belief. Every song is so good.

Rosemary

Mm-hmm.

Jane

Yeah. I remember we got the CD from the library a few times, but we never owned it. We had the Princess Diaries 2 soundtrack.

Rosemary

Yeah.

Sophie

Also good, but not quite as good.

Jane

I was just so excited about Julie Andrews singing again. So like…

Sophie

Yes. That is my favorite song from the second movie.

Jane

Yeah, definitely. Not sure why Raven’s there, but you know, it's still a great song.

Sophie

She has to do some sort of hippity hoppity for the youth. They they won't they won't last doing the… just Julie Andrews doing like a musical style number.

Jane

“But I don’t know how to do this sort of thing.”

Rosemary [overlapping with Jane]

“I don’t know how to do this.”

[all laugh]

Jane

Oh man, anyway, but yes, the the soundtrack for the original movie, which is what we're supposed to be talking about, is really good. There's so many great songs on it, and I really I- it's super random, but I really enjoy Mandy Moore singing “Stupid Cupid.” I don't really know why she sings it there in the movie, but like it's great.

Sophie

It's a weird song to have in that scene. It's weird that she sings it, but I'm so glad she does.

Jane

I also really enjoy that Anna and Fontana are there as backup singers, but their mouths never move. They're just like doing a dance. And like you hear the like background vocals, but they are not singing.

Sophie

They're not lip syncing. Yeah, I will say Mandy did not lip sync that scene particularly well. But her outfit is good enough to where it doesn't even matter. Her polka dot skirt is incredible.

Rosemary

And the like uni-boob tank top sweater.

Sophie

Yeah, the the halter sweater with the handkerchief hem. Oh my gosh, it's very Y2K.

Rosemary

It's exactly what I would wear to the beach.

Sophie

Sure. And platform flip flops.

Rosemary

I also need to confess something that as a child when this movie came out, whatever, I was very confused because I thought that Mandy Moore and Marilyn Monroe were the same person. And so I was so confused because I like knew that Marilyn Monroe… like I wasn't 100% sure who she was, but I knew she was like an icon and that like she was in Princess Diaries, cause it was like an alliterative M name, and I totally like was like, I don't know, it's got to be Marilyn Monroe. And then like… finding out more about Marilyn Monroe as I got older and then I was like…. I don't think that's Marilyn Monroe...

[all laugh]

Jane

I think she's very dead.

Sophie

I don’t think so.

Rosemary

I don't think it's the same person, but I’m not sure.

Sophie

It could be, but I'm not quite sure.

Jane

That's amazing.

Rosemary

But I remember being very confused about Mandy Moore and Marilyn Monroe in that movie.

Jane

That's amazing.

Sophie

That’s really cute.

Jane

One thing that I think is really interesting that I didn't quite pick up on until more recent rewatches is like just speaking of the whole beach thing: They're taking pictures of a 15-year-old in a state of undress and publishing them in tabloids. And it's seen as the 15-year-old's fault.

Sophie

Mm-hmm.

Rosemary

It's horrible.

Jane

It's it's terrible and like it's supposed to be bad. And you're like, supposed to think like, oh, it's- I feel bad for her, but I hadn't quite absorbed how awful that is. And it's like, I mean, that does happen, stuff like that. And it's like it's her fault when it very much was not for several reasons. But I just, it's just like, struck me as so much more disturbing to be like, OK, we're gonna have this undressed teenager that we took pictures of without her consent and blame her for it, and that was upsetting to me when I was just realizing that. But I also think that the scene when Clarisse confronts Mia about that is really well done. I think that they like, hit those emotional beats really well, and just like that, that she's really disappointed in her. But like Mia handles it well. And then I love when Joe comes in and sort of says, like “You were too harsh on her” and that they managed to slip in some levity with her with that moment of, like, “Her friends didn't help- Anna, Banana… Montana.” And I love that. And then that like, that's the moment when Clarisse says, “I have no idea what you're talking about” is great. But I also think it's like such a good point of, like, the thing. About like, “As a queen, I was too critical of the person who could become the next ruler of my country.” And he says, “No. As a grandmother, you were too harsh on your granddaughter.” And then that she takes that into the scene when they're in Mia's house talking about giving the speech or whatever, but she says, like, “I am first and foremost your grandmother.” And then that great moment when she hugs her and then just kind of goes, “Ah! I- I did it! I hugged someone!” is so great because she's been so emotionally distant and yeah. I just, I think that they really like they… they Julie Andrews-ified the queen but they didn't like make her completely like… soft and lovable. I mean, I guess it's kind of Mary Poppins too, where she's like, standoffish, but then also like sweet underneath.

Rosemary

But she's definitely not Maria von Trapp.

Jane

No.

Sophie

Correct.

Jane

She has to go through a journey too. Like the queen goes through a journey as well as Mia, and they go through very different journeys but kind of meet up at the end. And it's also just really nice that Clarisse still believed that Mia could do it and, like, had a tiara ready for her, even though she said she was going to step down and like… The whole end part of the movie just really pays off and I think that their relationship arc, the grandmother/granddaughter relationship is really… a great central story to this whole thing. Like it's like, yeah, it's about a girl who finds out she's a Princess, but it's also about, like, becoming connected with her estranged grandmother, who also needs some connection in her life. And I think that that's very well done.

Sophie

Yeah, I totally agree.

Jane

Mia's dad is dead, but we see, like pictures of him and one like flashback and that is Anne Hathaway's actual father. The voice is not. But they were going to use pictures of him, but then the scene with- when he's writing the note in the diary, they were just going to have somebody else wearing a wig to look like his hair, but then he happened to be in San Francisco for unrelated reasons while they were filming there. So they just, like, got him writing the letter. So that's kind of fun.

Sophie

That’s so cute.

Rosemary

I think another thing that this movie does well is like, adults taking teenagers seriously.

Jane

Oh yeah.

Rosemary

And like listening to them like… Mia and her mom had, like, real conversations together, and her mom doesn't just like, brush her off and be like, well, you're just a dumb teenager. Like her mom, like takes things to heart. And, you know, when she's like, “How could you lie to me for 15 years? I don't feel protected,” like her mom, like, takes that and it's like, this is where we're at now, and let's see what we can do to move forward. And then again when Mia’s like, “I can't believe you're dating my teacher!” She's like… she actually apologizes to her.

Sophie

Yeah.

Rosemary

And like when even like… the premise of the Mia has to hit a baseball to pass gym class is stupid, but like I even really like that gym teacher because she's just like, “I'm rooting for you.” And like…

Sophie

Yeah, I love Coach Harbula.

Rosemary

Mm-hmm.

Sophie

She, like… without like compromising her… like Mia says, “I can't do this. I'm a girl” and she's like... “Hello!”

Jane

“What am I, a duck?”

Sophie

“What am I, a duck?” Yeah. Which is hilarious when in the bonus features, you see that actor make duck noises and various other sound effects, which she's fantastic at. But yeah, she's very supportive while like being like, “You, you got to do this thing. I know it's hard.” Then she does it, and she's so proud of her at the end, which is really nice. And you know, having Josh get hit in the balls is… not a downside in the slightest.

Jane

I also think it's really funny that nobody else in the outfield can possibly pick up the ball. Just like, “You have to get up and throw it. We can't come over and find it.” Like I think that’s really funny.

Sophie

Well, one kid, one kid is on the phone with his mom about the dentist, so it couldn't be him. And then-

Jane

Bobby Bad.

Sophie

Twelve girls are doing some sort of cheerleading routine, so it couldn't be them.

Jane

Why- OK. But also like, why is the entire staff there? Because like Gupta-

Rosemary

Mr. O'Connell have picked up the ball.

Sophie

I know!

Jane

Yeah. Like, why was he there in the gym class? Why is Gupta coaching the cheerleaders? Like it's just like it's... I don't know. OK, two things that I was gonna say. One thing: going back to the mom relationship. I love when after the like beach fiasco, the mom says like, “My mom always told me not to cry and like to be strong. But you've been hurt. So you just cry.” And like I think that's so great. It's like, yeah, feel your feelings. Let's encourage girls to to feel their feelings and not shame them for being upset when upsetting things happen. And the other thing going way back to when we were talking about why the teacher changes from algebra to the like, debate teacher, because in the books Mia is really bad at math and then like her mom’s dating her math teacher. But I think that it really… it contributed to the arc to have her like, have this fear of public speaking and then like going into being a Princess where like you have to do a lot of public speaking and like that, adding to the reason of like, why not only why she doesn't want to be a Princess, but why she doesn't even want to show up to abdicate the throne. Like she's going to run away to Colorado in a car that doesn't run. That seems like a good plan.

Rosemary

Without a driver's license.

Jane

Yeah.

Sophie

With the cat!

Jane

With the cat, yeah!

Sophie

She's gonna take the cat to go rock climbing. And you can tell Fat Louie is like, first of all, this is a terrible idea. Second of all, please do not bring me into this. I want to live in my warm firehouse, OK, with my crazy artist mom. Do not take me to the rocks.

Jane

Yes. But anyway. So yeah, I think that that might have been part of why they decided to make the teacher that the mom ends up with be the debate teacher. So they could show that- set it up really early.

Rosemary

Yeah, it's definitely like easier to show being bad at debate in a movie than it is to be like “I am bad at algebra.” Like…

Jane

Yeah.

Sophie

Well, yeah. And it's, it's also like it's not Mean Girls where she has to solve the equation at the end of the movie for the big finish. It’s like she has to make this speech.

Rosemary [overlapping]

Make a speech.

Sophie

Right.

Jane

Yeah, it's like it's not that she's found out she's like inheriting a math thing like, “You… you have… you have to be the head of the math department because of who your father was” or something. It's like, “Oh, no, but I'm bad at math!”

Sophie

Yeah. That's hilarious.

Jane

So yeah, so I think that it works. I do think it's weird that they changed his name but…whatever

Sophie

Hmm-hmm. I don't know, maybe there are more Irish people than Italians in San Francisco, which I don't think is true, but-

Jane

They changed it to San Francisco just so they could have the scene where she, like, goes down the hill and runs into a trolley. Like, that- which is a great scene, by the way, but like-

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

It's like it doesn't really have anything to do with the story. I guess I guess it shows the queen in action, which it's a little bit of like showing that royalty can get away with stuff that other people can't. But I just think it's just so great to show that the queen can like...

Sophie

She's loosening up a little bit. Yeah, I mean, you, first of all, get the nuns calling 911 and they're busy and they say, “For the love of God,” which is hilarious, iconic. Then you get the Order of the Rose and then at the end, she says “Goodbye trolley people.”

Jane

And you get the, “Does anybody have a Saber?” “I've got an umbrella!” Which I love. I love, first of all, like, of course, everyone's carrying around a Saber, and then just like “I've got an umbrella” and she's like, “uhh…” “Well, I have an emergency brake!” “This will do nicely,” so great. And then and then I love that the trolley driver and the police officer show up at the ball at the end with little like things like they got an official badge.

Sophie

With their medals, yeah. So cute.

Jane

Yeah, it's like, oh, yes, they- let's make the Order of the Rose a real thing. And, and also Anne Hathaway's “Oh- OH OOOOHHH!” is so well done. Like, every moment of that scene is just great.

Sophie

Yeah, 100%.

Rosemary

I think going back to adults taking teens seriously and paying attention to them, I think another really good example of that is Joe.

Sophie

Mm-hmm.

Jane

Oh yeah.

Rosemary

And the ways that he, like, pays attention to Mia and like he encourages her, like, when Lilly has a negative reaction to her like getting a makeover. And he's just like, you're going to be OK. And then what we already talked about when he, like, goes… when Clarissa was like, “Was I too hard on her?” and he was like, “Yeah, you were.” I really like the ways that Joe is like a safe adult for her. And like is a really good bodyguard sort of person.

Sophie

Yeah, he won't let her take the flags off the limo, but he will quote Eleanor Roosevelt to her and put up the divider screen so she can put on pantyhose in the back seat.

Jane

Well, and he won't let her call him Joey.

Sophie

Right. But he'll go and buy her high heels.

Rosemary

He went and got her the pantyhose and the high heels.

Sophie

Yeah.

Rosemary

And like, he seems like he knows what's going on. Also when he's like, “with the beach friends” and like knowing that they're like, ridiculous and mean to her and like… Yeah, I think... I think that that is another reason why this movie was so like… comforting as a child and teen to watch because you're like, “my problems do matter,” and like “adults do care about teens” kind of thing. I think that there's that sense of it that really makes it a comforting movie and like… I hope that all teenagers have aJoe in their life, or a Clarisse, or a Helen or a Coach Harbula, or Charlotte, or, you know? The way that that Mia has these supportive people in her life that aren't even necessarily related to her. It's a really nice portrayal of that.

Sophie

Yeah.

Jane

Yeah.

Sophie

I totally agree.

Jane

Anything else that we desperately want to add? I mean, there's so much more that I could say about this movie, but uh, I don't want to just go on and on forever. I think that that that we've covered a lot of the important things about it.

Sophie

Maybe we can release our own deleted scenes at some point.

[Jane and Rosemary laugh]

Sophie

With puppets.

Rosemary

And bananas?

Sophie

Yes.

Jane

The deleted scenes are very interesting. I think that they did a great job of figuring out what to delete and what to keep.

Rosemary

A great job of deleting them.

Sophie

Yes.

Jane

Yeah. Because a lot of times like you, you see deleted scenes and you're like, “Oh, this could have been in the movie.” I mean, I guess the one I I do think it would have been nice to see Mia and Michael having pizza together.

Sophie

Mm-hmm.

Jane

Because it is a little odd that the pizza is so important at the end, and they've just like kind of mentioned it once in a throwaway line right before “Wait up. Wait for me! Not you. I don't even know you!” which is amazing and I love it so much. We haven't talked enough about Lilly I don't think. But she is a great character.

Sophie

Mm-hmm.

Jane

I feel like very often in movies where there's like a best friend, the best friend is just kind of there to like be a sidekick and I think Lilly Moskovitz is no one’s sidekick and she, like, is doing her best to make a difference in the world. And then, like finds out that her friend actually might have the means to really make a difference. And like, calls her out when she's like, “Yeah, you absolutely can do this.” But she's like Lilly's not perfect. Like, she gets really jealous of Mia. And so I think that that she's a very complex character. And I really like the way that she's portrayed.

Sophie

Yeah, I think if we were talking about the second movie we could say more because I think Lilly is a more active participant in the sequel, but we do get the great scene of her trying to vamp while she has Jeremiah on Shut Up and Listen. And you know that is one of the major conflicts is like Mia’s ditching all her friends for this, you know, popularity that she thinks she wants and then it turns out that that's not actually what's going to make her happy.

Jane

It's so wild to me that she doesn't even tell Lilly that she's going on a date with Josh. Like it… it seems like that would be something that you would tell your best friend, even if you forgot that you were supposed to be doing something with them. It's almost like, did Mia forget? Or was she, like, intentionally avoiding her because she- I mean, I know there was the whole thing earlier in the film when when Lilly's like, “Jerk and jerkette sighting” and like, Lilly does never like Josh, so I guess that could have been part of it too, but it's like at least she tells Michael that she's not showing up for their date, whereas like she doesn't even tell Lilly she's not going to be on her show.

Sophie

Yeah, I do think there could have been some sort of mention like “I can't tell Lilly what I'm doing because she's gonna judge me and like, she's gonna be even more mad if I, you know, tell her I'm I'm going to the party with Josh than if I just, like, didn't show up.” But…

Jane

Yeah, but she doesn't even… it's like she forgot about Lilly completely.

Sophie

Right.

Jane

Like it's like I'm not thinking about Lilly at all. And it's like… interesting to show her kind of starting to go off into this direction of like, “I'm going to be a mean popular kid” and then just like, totally failing at it and being like, “You know, that wasn't me. I totally messed up.” The movie does a good job of showing you how to take responsibility for when you mess up and then like showing, but you don't have to take responsibility for everything. Cause like not all the stuff that happened at the beach was Mia's fault, and it's portrayed as unreasonable that like people get so upset at her about that, but also like some of the stuff she did was bad, like she ditched her best friend and like showing her take responsibility for that, apologize, try and make amends for both Lilly and Michael, I I think I just think that's done really well. And I think that that's a good message to be giving to kids of like, you do need to take responsibility for the stuff that is your fault.

Sophie

And when she does apologize, she never like demands that she be forgiven. Like she says to Lilly on the roof, she's like, “I hope you can forgive me.”

Jane

Mm-hmm.

Sophie

She doesn't like expect that that's automatically going to come just because she said she's sorry, which I think is really cool.

Jane

Yeah and I love Lilly’s response of, “But what will I wear?” And she's just like, “Oh, I'm so glad you're gonna come!” And it's it's just a really sweet moment.

Sophie

And I will, I will say when she hugs Lilly after Lilly says she's going to come to the party, her foot does pop.

Jane

Yes it does. I I noted that as well.

Sophie

So it's not just, it's not just a romantic thing. It's for any kind of love.

Jane

Yeah. And again, that's… what I do really like about this movie is that they focus on a lot of different kinds of love, a lot of different deep relationships with different people, and I think they do a really good job of developing many of them and that's really great.

Sophie

I love this movie.

Jane

Ah, me too.

Rosemary

I do too. Well, thanks for… thanks for having me on to talk about it again.

Jane

Yes, I'm so glad to have both of you back.

Sophie

I'm so glad we got to talk about it. The three of us, that was fun.

Jane

Yes! So uh… thank you so much for being here and I… don't know how to wrap this up.

Rosemary

Miracles happen.

Sophie

“Thank you for being here today.”

Jane

“Thank you for being here today.” Yes. Oh, that's another great moment that I must mention when Joe is, like, so committed to pretending to drive the car that he even like puts the parking brake on before getting up. So great. Anyway, “thank you for being here today.” I love this movie. I love both of you and I'm so glad that we did this.

Sophie

Me too.

Rosemary

“Goodbye trolley people!”

[all laugh]

Jane

Ah, that was so fun. Thank you to Sophie and Rosemary for that lovely chat, and thank you audience for listening! This will be my final guest episode; my top six are so personal that it feels right to just talk about them myself. The next two episodes will be the final tie on my list, featuring the two movies that I watched 31 times. Coincidentally, one of them is the oldest movie in my entire top 40, and the other is the newest. The newest movie is also the shortest movie on the list, so I’ll be talking about that first. As always, I will leave you with a quote from that next movie: “First off, I work alone. Always have, always will. Second, take a hike. I don’t touch Hollywood cases. Not since… The War.”

#the princess diaries #garry marshall #anne hathaway #julie andrews #the rewatch rewind #i love this movie so much #and chatting about it with friends was so fun

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