#Boromir’s love for his people vs Faramir’s desire to be loved by Denethor | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

agirlunderarock · 4 years

Text

How I accidentally wrote 20 page paper on Boromir for one of my Final Ever University Papers PART 2

So this took me 5ever because I had to go through my actual paper again to find the sources and the citations I had, and then throw out the academic fluffer I had to speak with. But anyway just be prepared for a long ass read because we gotta touch on nearly every source I argued with in this post before getting to the good stuff. If you haven’t read Part 1 well here it is

Okay Okay where was I?

I said that academics were wrong with how they were judging Boromir right? Is that where I left off? Well thats where I’m starting

So before I go further I need to explain that the main premise for my paper is an argument to characterize Boromir with loyalty and fear, instead of power hungry and whatever the hell used, and then throw out this good vs. evil binary that’s often used to describe the lord of the rings- because lets be real, it looks like that on the surface but everyone has their ups and downs at least once or twice, and if not within the Lord of the Rings, it comes from books that are set in previous ages.

ANYWAY

Keep the fear and loyalty things in mind alright?

Fear sounds like an odd choice for a character I’m supposed to be defending right? I know.

We’ll get to that just bear with me.

So in order to say that academics were wrong, I first had to look at where they were coming from and try to see what textual evidence they had. Because if you’ve done academic research, you know how important textual evidence is.

So while finding literally nothing that focused specifically on Boromir, I found J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia : Scholarship and Critical Assessment by Michael D. C. Drout, which I still have questions about but hey it was a good starting point. You would think that a whole Encyclopedia dedicated to Tolkien would have more than a handful of entries dedicated to Boromir. I mean mentioning him in Gondorian politics or relations with Rohan or even Boromir I instead of just Boromir II but heres the thing, IN THE WHOLE IN ENCYCLOPEDIA HE WAS ONLY MENTIONED 8 TIMES.

THE NAME BOROMIR (which in this document only refers to Boromir II) ONLY APPEARS IN EIGHT ENTRIES.

You know what those entries are?

‘double of,’ - okay what the fuck does that mean?

I honestly don’t remember what it means I think it had to do with character foils, you know like how Neville is a foil for Harry in Harry Potter? If I remember correctly, it identified the common foils, Gandalf v. Saruman, Frodo v. Gollum and Aragorn v. Boromir. I could be totally wrong about this, its been exactly a year and I didn’t focus on this entry.

‘Faramir and,’- yes we know Boromir is Faramir’s older brother. What else ya got?

‘herosim of,’- Ah yes sounds promising

And you think it would shed some positive light on our boy right? RIGHT? Heres what the entry said per the quote in paper “It is in fact Boromir’s desire for the victory of Minas Tirith and his own glory there in that motivates his own grasp for the ring: the heroic motivations of fame, reward, and revenge (in this case on Sauron)” ( Drout 270 ).

LIKE EXCUSE ME WHAT THE FUCK- sorry wait, let me show you how I rephrased that for academic purposes: This description does not actually describe Boromir as being heroic, but later explains why these descriptions of heroism are actually evil compared to characters like Aragorn, Frodo, Gimli and the rest of the Fellowship.

‘penance of,’- Yet another character who achieves redemption through death. Great. I hate it. Shut up. Kill this trope.

and finally, ‘tyranny of.’- yes because Boromir was obviously a tyrant, but I say again SHOW ME TEXTUAL EVIDENCE

AND I’M TALKING ONLY ABOUT THE BOOKS HERE REMEMBER ALL OF THIS IS INFORMATION ON THE BOOKS. like there were entries on things from the movies, and even fanfiction, but THESE ENTRIES WERE BUILT ON RESOURCES THAT BUILT ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE BOOKS

I’m getting off track here

ANYWAYS

At the end of each of those entries were list of sources that the author used to create those entries. So guess what that meant- Ya girl was hand delivered sources to search for and hopefully they had some specific pages references for me to look up within the actual book series. At least you would think thats what I found, but NOOOOOOOOO, what I actually found is that EVERY SINGLE REFERENCED SOURCE CHARACTERIZED BOROMIR ONLY BY HIS ATTEMPT TO TAKE THE RING FROM FRODO.

Thats like living your whole life and having people who say they know you intimately (not in the romantic sense in the knows you to your core sense) BUT the only thing they really know about you is that one time in pre-school you tried to draw a rocket on the wall but actually it looked like a penis thats the only thing anyone will remember you for. I didn’t do this by the way, nor know anyone who did this but some kid somewhere probably did

But you know me at this point I had to check the sources and see what they were saying. So I took up Patrick Grant’s “Tolkien: Archetype and Word,” where he talks mostly about Frodo. I know its a stretch BUT he talks about loyalty specifically Sam’s loyalty to Frodo, and remember we want to establish that Boromir is incredibly loyal, so we have to see what he’s actually up against according to the critics

“…Sam Gamgee, whose part is least publicly acclaimed of all, but who in the sense in which we are now using the word, is especially heroic. His unfailing devotion to Frodo is exemplary, and here again Sam is a key link in bring the meaning of the book to the reader, the everyman who admires great deeds but wonders what his own part might be in important events which seem well enough wrought without him” ( 180 ).

Okay that seems fair from how Tolkien himself has talked about Sam right. And you’re probably like okay, but what the fuck does that have to do with Boromir? Literally just further down the page he says:

“…. The fellowship breaks only when the bond of obedience is broken, as it is by Boromir, whose pride and lust for personal power are evidence of false heroism” (180).

LUST FOR PERSONAL POWER???? PRIDE?????

SHOW ME THE PAGES SIR

GIVE THEM TO ME

I know you’re probably thinking, ‘but wait he’s actually kinda right-”

WRONG

Its anxiety, I’m telling you

I counted

its fear and anxiety

but again I’m getting a head of myself. Basically Grant just took a shat on Boromir to make Sam look good.

EXCUSE ME SIR SAM IS A GODDAMN MASTERPIECE ON HIS OWN THANKS. DON’T TRASH BOROMIR TO COMPLIMENT SAM. Also be wary of people who do this in general, if they put someone else down instead of just out right complimenting you take it as a warning

Oh and did I mention that because Grant says Boromir is technically being selfish, another critics analysis makes Boromir Evil, because acts done out of selfish pursuits are seen as evil and a “perversion of human will.” But you know, thats just how it be sometimes when you’re putting literature in conversation with one another.

Just know I pick on Grant a lot, mostly because he says shit like this: “…the most blinding love derives directly from such obedience,” (180). when it comes to Sam, and then takes a shit on Boromir. Like we’re going to come back to the obedience thing in a little bit, but just know that Merry, Pippin, Faramir, Eowyn, Even Sam at one point, and I mean I guess by some extension movie!Arwen take a big ‘ol shit on the idea that the only way to be heroic is to be OBEDIENT.

I get it, its another Catholic thing. I’m Catholic, I know what its getting at. But consider- no

Basically I boil this shit down to one thing

Sam Only Owes Loyalty To Frodo.

Literally his main concern throughout the book is Frodo and then the Shire and what that encompasses. So yeah its easy to be loyal and obedient to someone who shares all the same ideas and values as you and has a pretty similar lived experience right??? ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY And before anyone says Sam was loyal to the fellowship, Sam would literally cut a bitch for Frodo. He woulda fought Aragorn in the Prancing Pony if he thought he had to. He gave a second thought to Merry and Pippin when they left the Fellowship, but it wasn’t a “we should go back for them all or wait for them” It was “i’m gonna support mr. Frodo, even if Idon’t much like the gollum creature he decided to drag around but fair i guess cuz none of us know the fucking way into Mordor.”

So I made a chart to demonstrate why comparing Boromir and Sam is a big no no, and what kinda things Boromir was working with the whole time he was part of the fellowship.

Did I forget to mention that this was supposed to be a visual research paper?

So Sam and Frodo had a lot of the same Fears and values.

Our Boy Boromir over here has to deal with being a political/military figure, meet the demands of his father, he’s gotta try to be a good brother, he’s gotta learn to get along with the fellowship, and then each of those new or old loyalties has different responsibility and expectations he’s supposed to meet. And because I had to include Aristotelian ideas as part of the class, to quote myself: Despite the Aristotelian concept that it is impossible to be a virtuous friend to many, Boromir’s actions throughout The Fellowship of the Ring show him attempting to do this ( Aristotle 9 ). Like thats literally why he ends up a member of the Fellowship, he’s a little unsure of this plan, but hey its the best one he’s heard and if everyone thinks its going to work then by golly he’ll see it done. But again Aristotle (just in your head pronounce it like chipotle for me please) wants to try to establish a structure that I think is stoopid, he’s got a thing that says “it is a more terrible thing to defraud a comrade than a fellow-citizen, more terrible not to help a brother than a stranger, and more terrible to wound a father than any one else” (15).

So remember those loyalties in the little blue squiggles up in the picture, we already know that Denethor, and Faramir bump heads a little, and then the soldiers serving with Boromir probably have their own ideas about how Gondor should be defended, and then he goes to the Council of Elrong and they’re saying something completely different from what he’s heard- theres a lot of threads pulling the Captain in different directions. He’s got a lot hats to wear and demands to fulfill and living under the shadow of Mordor with all of those responsibilities is bound to give anyone anxiety.

But don’t just take my word for it

The movie actually reinforces this. I know the book says Boromir was “...pierced with many black feathered arrows” But the movie specifically makes it 3

Now I’m sure Mr. Peter Jackson didn’t intend for what I’m about to say, but I think its a pretty cool notion to think about. Because you can summarize Boromir’s conflicting loyalties into “family’ ‘country’ and “Fellowship’. Like his father would have him bring the ring to Gondor, his role as a military/political figure for Gondor means he should be doing whatever he has to in order to protect his country, and the Fellowship is like nah man we destroy this thing and everything else will fall into place, and Boromir is left having to decide whih of these things to act upon. Family, Country, and the Fellowship are the competing signs that make up is character arc, and his grapple with these three things is ultimately what leads to his death.

Now if your thinking family and country should be lumped together- theres a reason for it, just trust me, bare with me please

But basically what I’m trying to get at is given all these factors, you can’t compare a character like Boromir with all these responsibilities hanging off him to be comparable to Sam whose only responsibility is Frodo.

But you know who does share all these same demands

Faramir

Like take a look at their character arcs- if you can the text on this next pic is super teeny

If thats too small for you don’t worry about it because we’re gonna get into why Faramir is a better foil for Boromir, and how this should affect the way we as the reader come to understand his character. So fun stuff in the next part! Sorry for dragging this out, but just like my original paper, this turned out to be WAY longer than I expected.

#The Lord of the Rings #Boromir #me talking about Boromir #the fellowship of the ring #character analysis #character development

38 notes · View notes

gerrydelano · 4 years

Text

okay i was asked to post denethor vs théoden but i wanted to wait until i hit the laptop so here we GO time to get passionate about lotr yet again

the fucking dissonance between théoden fighting at the front lines with his people and defending them and his only thought being "do we have the manpower to offer?" when told the flame of minas tirith has been lit/gondor needs their aid... versus the quietly despairing battle scene interspersed with denethor Disgustingly feasting with Red running down his chin while he has a miserable hobbit sing uncomfortably to him, after he sent his Repeatedly Proclaimed Least Favorite son out to fight a battle he literally WANTS to fall through because he doesn't want to relinquish his shallow status

not to mention that denethor also just told his fucking son flat out that he wishes he had died instead of his brother, whereas théoden had a whole scene weeping at the beautiful grave of his own son after saying "no parent should have to bury their child." like.

first of all FUCK denethor, second of all théoden king PLEASE be my father figure you are so good

he's such a genuinely good guy? and good king? when you look at edoras you can see that he doesn't completely place himself at the top of the world all lavish and grand and distanced, he's a lot more Part of the whole place with his people? he's Involved? his priority is protection? and guidance? and community? he fully devotes himself to taking care of his people and even when it looks grim they have the honor to assist when called upon by others even when they didn't get the same in return. like yeah he has a momentary lapse of "why should we? we're hurting so badly" but he puts it aside! and every word out of his mouth afterwards is an encouragement to his men that they will do what's right, do their best, do what they can.

he tells éowyn he doesn't expect her to fulfill duties against her will; he wants her to smile again. to live free of despair. that is a tenderness and sincerity that is so viciously Absent in denethor that it just makes you fucking [screams] about faramir. and then the fact that éowyn and faramir end up together just makes it even more [screams] like. the continuation of a parallel! they had completely different upbringings from guardians that were all but polar to each other and still both turned into people who wanted to fight with everything they have, BUT ALSO - to prove themselves. in different ways! for different reasons!!!!!

maybe faramir had a bit of a death wish entwined with his desperation for approval, where éowyn wanted freedom and to be true to herself, but they both had to disobey to do what they thought was right and redirect those dreams and deeply conditioned desires AND. they survived! when they should have died, their Polar Opposite Guardians did instead and! in such different WAYS!!!! denethor in such violence and shame after what he'd nearly done to the son he had spent his whole life forsaking, théoden with such peaceful tenderness and in recognition of one he loved so vocally and so much. like. FUCK!!!!

anyway. back on track. boromir is a lot more like théoden than he was ever like his own father, frankly. the bright side of humanity shows in people like that who just. want to do everything they possibly can for the good of the people they love. i am Raving. and i Still hate denethor. fuck.

#r.txt #lotr tag #but gd i HATE DENETHOR SO MUCH!!!! LMAO!!!! honestly one of my very most hated characters #there are cool shitty villains sure but denethor makes me wanna BEAT HIS ASS like the visceral hatred i get is so real

18 notes · View notes

afaramir · 4 months

Note

3, 4, 7, 9 for the fic writer asks :)

hi anna thank u c: this took way too long lol i just spent days agonizing over what excerpts to pick and how i wanted to analyze them and falling asleep over my laptop keyboard but here it is finally (questions from this ask meme)

3. What’s a fic idea that you have but haven’t written yet?

dude the multitudes i think i could spend the character limit of this post listing them. opening the entire separate notes app on my phone where i keep them all. highlight reel: pacific rim chosen-one-as-in-sacrificial-lamb raleigh & stacker pentecost (you and i are the only ones who ever ran solo combat that's why i brought you here is CRAZY); james bond m(allory) vs the portrait of m(ansfield) that is very much not present in the halls of mi6 (until it is); lotr faramir and pippin and the ghost of boromir and the debt pippin owes to gondor which is not the debt that denethor demands of him. there are also like way too many little nickjasper oneshots that are sitting around waiting to be written. a selection: jasper leaving messages on nick's phone when he thinks he's dead, putting photos up + building a home together, couch fic, sleepy leather jacket fic, nick sending jasper on his first mission since they got together, 4x nick sweeping jasper off his feet, ambient new years day fic, nick meeting jasper's plane in the hangar, can you tell i am just holding them in my hands so tenderly. these are all such nothing concepts and yet theyre everything to me...

4. Do you prefer writing multi-chapter or oneshot fanfictions?

the day i write a chaptered fic again is the day i am dead in the damn ground. jk but like its the 20k oneshot unlimited scene breaks life for me i am afraid. putting in chapters gives me hives what if i have to go back and change something...ending a chapter gives the adhd a convenient place to sit down and refuse to move...all that

7. What's a trope you love to write?

depends on how broadly we are defining trope. actually i decided that this question just says "theme" instead of trope bc it was the middle of the night and i wanted to talk about Themes And Motifs. like.......guilt complex. the intersection between duty and desire. two people that have never had the luxury building a soft place to land together (because love is a place you could live in). uhhh. subversion of dark/light dichotomies (quiet and comfort and whispered secrets in the night and clarity and endings and unforgiving harshness in the light of day). Water Metaphors. that thing where a character sees their love interest in formalwear (or tactical gear. bc of. well the spy fiction) for the first time. i could go on but ive bastardized the prompt for long enough lol

9. What’s your favorite line(s) or scene(s) that you have written?

sickos.jpg YES...YES!!! i love this one. i will try to refrain from going way overboard but also...no promises. gonna try to not do any of the ones i did for ao3 wrapped last year lol

"He wants to reach out, wants to touch, wants to find Gareth among the bones of M but he can’t. Not now."

the way i played with names and titles and forms of address in race for a hurricane (bond, the first mallorytanner i ever published) remains one of my most favourite things i've done with words ever in my life. like when i figured it out i was like oh. i Understand them now. there are at LEAST three layers of masks before you even start to get into real people down there. and here is a situation that strips them all away. like mallory has to accept the death of mi6 before he can allow himself to fight for it one last time but their work life balance is pretty much defined by "when you are m" and "when you are not/when you are tanner's." when it's no longer that clear-cut it takes tanner reaching for him and saying gareth for both of them to understand that what they have together exists outside and past the boundaries of m-and-his-chief-of-staff. ugh its crazy stuff

"He's always known exactly how to push Nick's buttons and Nick's not made it a secret how hot he is for him right now, all confident competence, smug and self-assured in the knowledge that he's done everything Nick wants of him - and he has. He's done it to perfection. He reaches out and traces a finger across Jasper’s jaw, waits until he has his full attention before he lets his mouth curve with clean, shining approval. “Oh, Jas,” he says, “my sword.” Jasper lets out a sigh at Nick's words, pitched high enough that it could be a whine, tongue darting out to wet his lips. Nick steps back, lets Jasper sway half a step towards him, the slackness in his shoulders half want and half relief. Catches him with a hand against his chest. “Let me see you. What have you done to yourself?”"

well i had to put in this entire passage from just so long as this thing's loaded (marvel, unhinged nickjasper). i am just so fucking pleased with the build of the tension and the space of the pause before the Line Of All Time and just. i assigned myself to write Well More Things Should Be Weird And Horny and i think i pulled it off. like six paragraphs up there is pretty much straight up knifeplay in there. in my defense i didnt realize how intense it'd got until i had finished writing it. obviously the crown jewel of this excerpt and also of the whole fic is oh, jas, my sword which is a line that fucking bolt of lightning-ed into my mind exactly when i needed it and put me absolutely flat on my back. (i WILL take the "character being reduced to a deadly weapon by their love interest and liking it" trope to its most literal. Augh.) usually i see those kinds of major lines that i spend a whole scene's worth leading up to coming. I Did Not See This Coming.

man there's more but im putting a readmore in for the sake of everyone's sanity.

"This is leaping off an edge and trusting the ocean to catch her - trusting Raleigh to catch her, and when the drift comes up to cradle her and her feet come down onto the contact pedals she feels like she could eat the world whole. It makes her want to split herself open, loving hands and cold steel and take back what the kaiju have taken from her, the blood they’ve spilt over her insides[...]"

i! love! mako mori!!!!! my best girl!!!! they say when you set out on a quest for revenge dig two graves they! underestimate! me!! when i wrote tempered steel (pacific rim/mako mori-centric) i was like oh i Get her. oh her spine is literally a sword. oh the kaiju took everything from her and she will take everything from them and she will not die trying because she is the hurricane. she will open herself up with her own hands (and raleigh's hands because they are her hands and hnnnggg drift compatibility...) and draw out every drop of blood the kaiju have left inside her and. just incredible stuff

"now[...m]eans after this, after the kitchen they'd painted together, after the car rides to work, after Nick-and-Jasper becomes just Nick, and a house with Jasper's name still on the mortgage."

sorry about the blood in your mouth (marvel, the first nickjasper i ever published. life comes full circle) is the oldest fic in this set but i still think about this line regularly. just. when you are a spy and your husband is a spy and it turns out he's been a traitor all along and you fell for it hook line and sinker. and you cannot let anyone else kill him because you need it to be you, because you have done the thing you never thought or let yourself do, you have built yourself a life with him and now. now you are just nick, now you are a half of a whole and his name will always be on your mortgage and your house will always be yours, both of yours, and. Man. 2020 me was on something fuckoff crazy (quarantine blues is what).

"Dying for each other might be romantic in all the stories but in real life, it just hurts. In real life, it just leaves someone behind. They already know that Jasper will walk unflinching to the edge and let himself fall, that Nick will claw his way right out of the grave just to catch him when he hits the ground. This time, it’s their goddamn story. This time, they’ll run and they’ll get out, hand in hand. This time, they’re going to fucking live."

the whole ending paragraph of say the word and i'm already there (marvel, sneaking into the garage after the divorce to pick up my nickjasper boxes and fleeing with them). i love to subvert tropes and saw that post about instead of i will die for you try i will live because of you, for you and i finally got to do it. i love dying-for-each-other as much as the next girl but also like...let's be serious here for a minute. let's be so real character death in mainstream media is so cheap nowadays. In Real Life It Just Hurts. this is such an i will write you a thousand happy endings moment i think i cried when i wrote it like....man i love jasper sitwell. i love him so fucking much. we've really had quite enough of self-sacrifice and death and all that in my opinion. the knowledge of mcu canon jasper's fate dogs every step of my damn life. it haunts me okay I Need Them To Live.

#from the inbox #potatoesandsunshine #this got soooo long LMFAOOO its just the excerpts. i just love to quote my own fic lol #there are two asks that my inbox ate. if u sent me one of these....it might be in the void. but pls try again i wanna do more of em lol #i will try not to take 1000000 years to answer them...

1 note · View note