#'cause I'm not touching upon it here but while Joker comes to acknowledge his love towards Batman. I don't think he LIKES that it's there | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

distort-opia · 22 days

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Ok idk if this is common knowledge or if I'm misunderstanding, but do we have an idea of when joker fell in love with batman? Did he come out of the sauce like that or was it during his young villanhood?

-@Tinygalaxykid

The answer depends a lot on writer and continuity, I suppose... and on personal preference. Some (like Tynion or Snyder) retrospectively wrote Joker as being obsessed with Batman from the very beginning, from their very first interaction. However, even then, I would say there's a difference between obsession and love. Because if we're talking obsession, Batman also got unhinged about Joker very early on.

Older comics portraying initial interactions between Batman and Joker actually show that when first emerging, Joker didn't target Batman at all. He was interested in taking down Gotham, and Batman was just an obstacle in his path (and I guess now I can add King's The Winning Card here too). I have a longer meta in response to someone's question here that might be of more help, going into depth on Batman and Joker's first interactions and the development of their obsession here. Personally, I think there's a lot more canon attesting that Joker wasn't in love from the get-go and that he genuinely wanted to kill Batman-- and that it took time for him to realize he even wanted Bruce alive. Joker wasn't playing around, he wasn't pretending; his schemes and attempts to kill Batman were real.

However, there's multiple moments in their first years in which Joker thought he killed Batman... and he's not entirely triumphant. But I'll put the rest of this under the cut because I've gotten long again.

You can visibly see Joker struggle with Batman's potential death here, for example:

Batman: Batgirl (1997)

This takes place around Year 8, and as you can see, Joker's jostled... but only for a moment. At the end of the day, as I mentioned, Joker's approach depended on the writer; some had Joker as purely homicidal and gleeful in trying to kill Batman, while others wrote him as coming to avoid killing Batman because then he'd be losing his playmate. I think one of the earliest and overt instances of the latter was this:

Batman (1940) #408

And that technically takes place around Year 10 of Batman's career. So if we're taking this as a progression, it did take Joker a while to arrive at these sentiments, and even then, he's conflicted about them. He acknowledges himself later on that he pivots back and forth between trying to kill Batman in earnest and not.. another time he decided that no he definitely wants to kill Batman now:

The Brave and The Bold (2007) #27

By the 2000s though, we got the infamous story Superman: Emperor Joker. Which entirely hinged upon Joker's feelings for Batman, but also his unawareness of them. Superman manages to make Joker realize that Batman is fundamental to his understanding of the world, and that he could not erase him, not matter how hard he tried:

Superman: Emperor Joker (2000)

Joker's memories of this are taken away, but to be honest, I do think this marked... a change in Joker's understanding of himself. Because the first time ever, to my knowledge, that Joker's told Batman he loves him, is this:

Batman (1940) #625

This was published in 2004, and let's say taking place around Year 15 (though in realistic post-Crisis continuity, it's even later). So, if we're trying to look at the timeline, to me it becomes obvious that Joker's feelings and his own awareness of them were a progression. He's always been obsessed with Batman, but he becomes more territorial and more... in love, with time.

Because what happens in this time? Batman saves his life, time and time again. Batman doesn't kill him. Batman keeps playing his game, gives him attention, doesn't give up on him... with The Killing Joke as an essential moment in which Batman offers to help, despite what Joker did. All these things Joker could not have known immediately after they met. So I guess my opinion is that while obsession was near immediate, love (of the very twisted kind) came later.

#hope this helps!#this is a bit of a mess but well. a timeline of the Batman/Joker dynamic would be too massive of an undertaking #tried to mention some of the events I felt were more relevant #Joker does say 'I love you' in Broken City but then he says 'I hate your guts so badly' in Cacophony #'cause I'm not touching upon it here but while Joker comes to acknowledge his love towards Batman. I don't think he LIKES that it's there #asks #batjokes #batjokes meta #batman #bruce wayne #joker

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