Disabled neutralship culture is seeing both sides constantly be ableist and use disabled people as tokens and as gotchas.

"What about the people who can't separate fiction from reality?" Let them speak for themselves or boost their voices, don't just use a hypothetical disabled person you never have interacted with to feel morally superior.

"What about disordered paraphiles?" Again, let disabled people speak for themselves.You don't actually know about that experience if you're using us as a hypothetical scarecrow.

The list goes on and on. It's disgusting that the people who are tokenized have a hard time actually talking about our experiences when both sides push misinformation on experiences and take over our tags and spaces for clicks and engagement. Or we are assumed to be inherently pro/anti due to being disabled, which is really ableist and demeaning.

I get shit for telling both sides to stop tokenizing people like me and using ableism for their personal comfort.

Not to mention misuse of "purity culture" when it is a specific kind of religious abuse and not just "ew sex/kink/fetish/paraphilias gross." I'm a survivor of it and both sides misuse and water down the term for the type of long term sexual abuse and grooming that's been common since the 80s/90s and even longer in some religions in some aspects. It's not a fandom term, especially with how purity rings (Rings to symbolize not having sex before marriage or showing your purity belongs to your father before being handed to your husband, both beliefs go hand-in-hand) were trendy in the early 2000s.

i have nothing to add. this is straight facts.

Neutralship culture is feeling a massive weight off your shoulders finding your stance on the subject

Yes

Hello! This is might be my only time to this blog since i filter out the antiship and proship stuff but I want to say something. I'm keeping myself anonymous to prevent people attacking me. This blog is a blessing, for years I never considered my self as a proshipper nor antishipper I always felt like I was in middle about views of shipping. I understand what both sides are trying to say and they have good points but its becoming so toxic. :( I can't really support the fights between the two sides. I guess as newly discovered neutral shipper, you understand what both sides are trying to say and you may have a mixture of both views but you can't support the fights and the extremism cause it might destroy fun of the fandoms. So you stay away and focus on what ships that make you feel comfortable and enjoy it. And block anything that makes you uncomfortable.

I feel comforting knowing that I helped you, anon. Welcome to the neutralship community! /pos

I was formerly involved in the anti-proship discourse, and all I have to say is: it’s exhausting. Both communities constantly argue, complain, and harass each other, with individuals between 13-40 years old involved, devoting their time to fighting over fiction. A few antis and proshippers have made accounts dedicated to mocking one another, thriving off the discourse. Many of them will get angry if you disagree with them on even one thing, labeling you as a member of the other community, deeming you the “enemy,” and harassing you for not agreeing 100%. Both groups are toxic, but when confronted about it, they deflect and blame each other, being too prideful to admit they have issues.

Numerous people have tried to avoid this mess but have been dragged into it, having a label forced on them despite not understanding or being too uninterested to participate. However, when people refuse to take a side, they risk facing harassment. People have been stalked, doxxed, or have committed suicide because of this nearly 10-year-old online war, but antis and proshippers have only doubled down on their fighting. They act as if they have something “important” to prove, trying to force the other to surrender as if they’ll be “rewarded” for their foolishness, ignoring the harm they’ve caused throughout the years.

I’m glad I left the anti-proship discourse because my online experience has been enjoyable and calmer since I have. This fighting between antis and proshippers must stop because no one benefits from the stress and harassment it’s causing.

It's generally easier to blame the other side to the point that you've justified the harm that you've caused to said side and bystanders.

I truly understand that fiction affects certain parts of life, just as life affects certain parts of fiction. There are certain things in fiction that doesn't affect life, just as there's certain things in life doesn't affect fiction. I believe that both sides can agree on it.

It's not a black and white topic, just as anything in life.

neutralship culture is thinking both proshippers and antis do way too much shit over lil cartoon ships

It's a little more complex than that, but still true.

We're an anti-shipper but I saw something said and would like to expand on it-

Being triggered by things works in a variety of ways. We state we're anti-ship and don't want to interact with proshippers because we have triggers that cause explosive/angry/violent episodes and they trigger that. There's also some cases where triggers make it harder for you to step away- it's why we personally try to prevent self proclaimed proshippers from interacting with us in the first place.

It's obviously not healthy but it's something that's incredibly hard. I also know of other people who can develope special interests in triggering fields. It's a very unfortunate thing and it typically has a lot of nuance. (There's more reasons than just triggers that we don't like proshippers/proshipping but that's not really relevant here)

Note: I was using we cause we're a system

Completely understandable. I apologize as I haven't thought about that aspect /gen.

Neutral ship culture is being tired of seeing both sides care more about one-upmanship and mudslinging than actually helping the victims they claim to care so much about.

Mood

Neutral ship culture is getting tired of explaining to people that shipping/fandom discourse does not effect the politics of the United States Government. You people disagree on fanfic morality. Not on tax policy, bathroom bills, abortion rights, etc.

It is frustrating to see pro-choice, pro-trans, pro-black, pro-survivor etc proshippers and antis blame each other for the state of the world when they should both be working together instead of wasting time acting like Roe v. Wade was overturned on feral discourse.

People generally like to focus on futile points that makes their side of an argument "the right one". It's way less stressful, tangible, or what have you than dealing with things such as losing our reproductive, marriage, racial, etc. rights. Its a sad thing that a lot of people do and any of us can fall into.

What I didn't wish them to die I meant I give support and help proshippers who are receiving death threats

Sorry if it sounded like I was supporting them getting death theats I forgot to proof read what I said

Oh, my response to your last ask wasn't directed at you and I apologize for not making it clear /gen. I was pissed at the antishippers who claim that "neutralship is just diet proship". Again, I apologize for not making it clear /g.

Me a neutralshipper defends proshippers who are receiving death threats and a bunch of horrible shit

Some random antishipper on anon: you must be in denial you must be a proshipper 🤡

Bruh, you can have different opinions and still be okay with others. It's called living in a society. Plus, your in the wrong for wishing someone to die, especially over drawings. I understand that it might be a trigger, that's why the block button exist.

Wow, it's giving "If you don't think exactly like me, you're my enemy" energy. I, and many others, are neutralship for a reason. If we're proship, then we would've stated that. Plenty of accounts for us, so why lie? To trick you? What for? What's the purpose of tricking you even be?

I'm beginning to think that this whole discourse is dissolved into petty arguments instead of philosophical discussions.

Neutralship culture is not having the words to explain the fallacy from proshippers that I have had said to me- that not wanting people to sexualize children will lead to people censoring queer representation.

Do you see queer people as inherently paraphiliacs due to their sexuality? Are you aware of the fact that you are equating sexualizing children to queer people being visible? It's the slippery slope fallacy.

It's like the inverse of the arguments fascists make almost word-for-word, just going in the opposite direction. And then antishippers treating that as if it is an actual argument sometimes is wild since it is clearly just a fallacy.

I'm just here like "Holy shit are you aware how close you come to sounding like an alt-right asshole, you know, the people who want queer people dead?"

I'm so flabbergasted, that I'm going to answer in parts. Although I understand where you're coming from and agree with you, I can't ignore my lived experience.

"Neutralship culture is not having the words to explain the fallacy from proshippers that I have had said to me- that not wanting people to sexualize children will lead to people censoring queer representation."

I'm sorry anon, but I have to say something to you. I apologize for taking a American centric standpoint, but it's in affective tactic. Although It's most definitely a fallacy to equate queerness to pedophilia, grooming, child sexual abuse, etc. I don't see warning people that censorship of problematic will lead to cenosrship of marginalized people has a fallacy. Because that's exactly what's happening with trans people in the States. Texas, Florida, Georgia, Oklahoma, just to name a few, use that exact tatic to pass transphobic bills.

For context, I'm a Southern American and I've been seeing government officials, time and time without fail, justify queer censorship as "protecting children from groomers, pedophiles, etc." While actual abusers and abusive spaces are ignored.

It's not that proshippers see queers as abusers, it's that they're warning you (as catchall term) of the queerphobic possibilities of censorship. And yeah, I don't like sexualize children, but 1) that's not what their side is about or what (a lot) of them stand for and 2) Sometimes both sides are right, but fail to see it because of their differences.

I'm not for complete censorship or complete fictional "freedom", I just think that sometimes both sides are technically right and if they would but their differences aside, they would find a lot of similarities.

I lean more towards the proship/profic side, but the mfs on Twitter specifically makes it so hard to fully lean into it!

You'll see someone make a tweet about how they don't like the incestuous undertones in a show they like, and the fan content makes them uncomfortable. Then you'll see these smarmy turds reply, "Imagine getting worked up over fictional incest! 🤣"

Like dude, people are allowed to say they don't like pickles in their burger.

But then you have the other side saying "anyone who likes pickles in their burgers should get executed blood eagle style"

No one can have a normal civil discussion about anything on that god damn app

Sorry for the late reply!

This is why I avoid the bird app as much as possible. People are allowed to be uncomfortable with certain things in fiction and talk about those certain aspect. To say otherwise literally has very weird (possibly ableist) undertones. They completely disregard people with traumatic experiences. And how are you more concern with protecting drawings over people?

No side has sympathy for the other I swear. They care more about protecting (in their own way) fiction over reality. I'm convince that that's what the pro/anti on Twitter is dissolved to.

What really pisses me off is the fact antishippers say they get triggered by problematic content yet they still interact with it by talking about it and posting about it

Like bro if it triggers you so much why the hell do you keep interacting with it

Sorry for the late reply, anyways onto answering. Now for the ask.

I mean there's a difference between mentioning your triggers (though rants/vents) on a couple posts, which is fine imo, and purposefully triggering yourself by going though the tags, blogs, and interacting with them. I hope that most antishippers on Tumblr are more like the former rather than the later.

Because purposefully triggering yourself is self harm and it's not healthy. And I know that there are some people would argue that "Stop telling them what to do, they're not children. Stop infantilizing them" Or whatever bullshit they'll say. 1) I'm advising them to not to hurt themself. Would you keep that energy in other life threating situations? 2) I promise you it's not that deep. Triggers are a serious thing and should be treated as such; both from the environment and the person themself.

If you yourself don't take your triggers seriously, then how do you expect others to respect them?

neutral ship culture is writing things that would get me keelhauled by antis (in my case, omegaverse porn) and STILL being shamed by proshippers because I am [squints at notes] virtue signalling how ~unproblematic~ I am by having my characters use safewords.

seriously. make it make sense.

I just had to google what omegaverse is and uh, proshippers are made that you're writing safe kinks? Antishppers are mad at you for writing kinks?

Proshippers: Wheren't you the accepting group? Or is it only with problematic stuff? Or is it only when antishippers despise it? Clearly, it's not the last one.

Antishippers: people write what they write. You can't stop them, they're not harming you with porn. Jeez, anti kink much?

Honestly, I'm just baffled at both groups.

I know that it's not all people like this, but they were enough for you to be in this situation. I'm truly sorry that you've had to deal with assholes. I wish you the best in your fanfic journey /gen

What does it mean to be an antishipper who is against censorship and harassment? If they think people should be able to ship those things and post them in appropriate places without being censored or harassed, in what sense are they an antishipper?

I will try to answer to the best of my ablites. Actual antishippers are free to correct me and/or add on /g.

"What does it mean to be an antishipper who is against censorship and harassment?"

From what I understand, antiship means "against said ships" for whatever reason. It doesn't automatically mean that they're gonna harass others for it. They could still have an aversion to certain relationships but understand their value. For example, most antishippers are against adult/minor pairing, but some understand that it helps victims process their trauma and help those with intrusive thoughts. They can totally hate the ships, but keep it within their bubble.

"If they think people should be able to ship those things and post them in appropriate places without being censored or harassed, in what sense are they an antishipper?"

They believe in media freedom and still identify as an antishipper. They identify that way for a million reasons, and I believe that the majority of it is reasonable. Again, hating ships ≠ harassing others for ships.

Overall, if that's the label that they chose, that's how I'll refer to them as. Sorry, I'm not that well-verse in this discussion to accurately answer /g

For antishippers (and anyone else) coming to this, please don't harass this person. I don't care about their shipping stance, they're still a person worthy of basic respect. Their lives matter more than their (opinion of) fiction.

Paraphilia-questioning (With the help of a professional) neutralship culture is seeing one side seem like they hate you for your intrusive thoughts from trauma and the other encouraging intrusive thoughts with the idea of "it's just fiction" while being the one to deal with those kinds of things and how paraphilias can hurt others since you got one through the abuse of someone else who had the same.

Like, never being able to talk about incest ever vs seeing it constantly romanticized both make me feel like a monster and scared to tell anyone about it. I'd never hurt anyone, but my trauma response isn't an attractive thing either. Both sides hurt the people they claim to care for and protect.

At this point, it almost seems like contest of who is the most "accepting" without making the space and effort for those who need it the most.

The reason why the flag I made as a swan is because I see comshippers having a dove on there flag. And I thought why not make the flag I made have a swan?

I did that because neutralship gets treated like the ugly duckling by the other sides

The last part is so true, between being treated as the opposing diet version and fence sitter, the ugly ducking perfectly visualizes it.

Thank you so much for explaining it!