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maryholdenofthevalley · 3 months

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The not-really-hidden meaning of the 1967 scene in Good Omens - Crowley and Aziraphale's First Confession

The job promotion scene in season 2 and what comes after that was not their first confession. No, no. It wasn't at all, and I have just found out about this too late.

(I have always been slow from picking up the undermeaning of people’s tones or writings and I have never seen anyone else talking about this, so this is like an enlightenment for me. To be fair, the bandstand scene was very close, but I will write a whole ass study about the entire season 1 riddle later.)

So, yes, I want to talk about how the entire season 1 was full of riddles and coded conversation and Neil was not being mysterious when he said this:

Maybe they have never kissed, held hands or said out loud “I want to date you” in season 1 (but did say “I know you do like me”??? unreal.), and so some people might think that Good Omens was just queerbaiting us, since the author clearly said it was a love story but they never explicitly confirm it on the screen? Yes, I used to think that too. I trust Neil, but I didn’t know him when I first watched season 1, and even though I have strong, concrete suspicions on so many scenes, unless they actually use one way or another to confirm it, I really couldn’t just go around saying their relationship is canon or something, right? And even regarding the tweet… I mean, if that were me, I could even say that friendship love is still love, so it’s still a love story if they aren’t lovers.

(There is a relationship dynamic called ‘queerplatonic’ and it’s not romantic love, but not friendship, either. I’m siding with the idea that Aziraphale and Crowley want to be romantic lovers, but if it’s not what they intend to and want something close to queerplatonic, then that’s fine, this whole post’s stand is still the same.)

It’s embarrassing that season 2 had to be out in the world and everyone was in shambles but in exchange for the right to claim canon relationship, that was when I started to believe season 1 was, indeed, a love story. And when I rewatched it, I almost had a heart attack because I cannot believe that one angel and one demon were so explicit in showing their romantic love, and they even actually CONFESSED ONCE, and I didn’t realise???????

So I am here trying to help anyone who is just as pathetically clueless as me. We are of the same kind, my friends. There’s nothing to be embarrassed about, notwithstanding anything I just say about being embarrassed.

First, let’s quickly visit this certain homosexual’s subculture around the world, where they spent years being oppressed, discriminated against and even killed for just wanting to love people with the same gender as theirs, so: they formed some sort of language or code that only the people in the community can understand, to recognize each other (you can read more about it here). One example I saw in a recent manga I read, “Hōzuki no Reitetsu”: gay men wear earring on their right ear - it’s not to ridiculous straight men as gay for wearing their jewellery in a certain way, it’s a coded fashion statement for gay men to recognize each other.

Why am I talking about this? Because Aziraphale and Crowley’s loving relationship, whether platonic or romantic, is just as forbidden in Good Omens world as homosexual in real life. Even if Heaven or Hell doesn’t consider homosexual to be a sin like some extreme conservative Christians think, or Aziraphale and Crowley is not exactly males (angels/demons are sexless), but as two Earth field workers respectively belong to two opposite sides who just want to declare war on the other side and destroy them, they are not different from two spies from two warring countries. Every interaction without authorities’ permission will be considered treason and will be punished. Not to mention after the battle against God, the former fallen angels - as well as those who remained - understood best how terrible the punishment for traitors could be.

That’s why when Crowley talked about the Agreement (first letter capitalised, not getting in each other’s way and helping each other when needed) and when Aziraphale thanked him for saving him, or when Aziraphale said he’s actually very kind or when Crowley asked if he should thank him, the other person freaked out and said “Don't say it!”. Don’t say it out loud. Because, even if their bosses weren’t supervising them, they both felt in their hearts that, if they acknowledged the existence of a not-so-nice angel and a not-so-evil demon, or describe their relationship in spoken words, then one day they will be discovered by their side and will be severely punished, or even not able to see each other anymore. Or the other person will experience the exact same feeling. If the two of them want to continue communicating in secret, they must have a series of secret intermediate meeting points, must talk to each other in codes, and the other person will always understand what the other person really wants to say. Or sometimes, think that they understand.

Besides, 6000 years have passed since the Earth was formed, and this “secret friendship” relationship has still not been discovered, and they have been very happy together for so long, and for them, putting a name on their relationship is extremely unnecessary. Their relationship is unique, no one can interfere, and no one should find out and call them anything other than “arch enemies” or “willy opponents”. This further contributes to the fact that any conversation that seems “more than friends” must be in extreme euphemism, because even being “friends” is not allowed.

Recently, I just found a fanfic on AO3 - post-professional endeavours by darcylindbergh - catches on very well the way they talk in code, in which I quote:

Ezra and Anthony were hardly joined at the hip; Anthony’d even told Daniella once that they were just colleagues, though Daniella had made a dramatic face about it and he’d had to concede, “All right, friends, then.” They never reached. They never curled together at tables in coffee shops; they didn’t lay side by side on sample mattresses, testing them out. They never said we in that tone, in that two-as-one kind of voice. They didn’t ring off phone calls with love yous and goodbyes. But she could see the way they looked at one another. She wasn’t sure if they thought they were hiding it from her, or if they thought they were hiding it from themselves. They weren’t very good at it, if they were. Or maybe they just weren’t really hiding anything, per se, but they were so used to never saying, to never acknowledging, to speaking euphemisms and riddles and code words, that they forgot how to speak clearly.

This. This is what I meant when I talked about the way Aziraphale and Crowley talked to each other over 6000 years, in fear of their two opposing sides, of their superiors, and of themselves. They have forgotten how to speak clearly.

So. And those are for before 1862 AD. I will soon get to the love confession scene that I promised you, but I have to analyze the scenes leading up to it first before we can understand it.

- 1862, St. James's Park: Their desire to protect their relationship leads to an unwanted overprotective reaction

This is where we started, with St. James’s Park, one of Aziraphale and Crowley's meeting points. Human spies throughout the park’s history have also used it to meet discreetly, pretending to feed the ducks to stand next to each other, but are actually discussing important matters.

This is the scene where Crowley first asked for holy water, in 1862. While pretending to be a stranger standing next to Aziraphale, Crowley opened like this:

“Look, I've been thinking. What if it all goes wrong? We have a lot in common, you and me [...] If it all goes wrong, I want insurance.”

Crowley needed a backup plan, because he was afraid that this little friendship he had would lead to his destruction, because Hell wouldn’t send a warning letter, Hell wouldn’t forgive. But Crowley found a way for him to continue this “fraternising” relationship instead of cutting ties with Aziraphale.

Aziraphale stopped Crowley’s attempt to take the holy water, because the holy water would not only temporarily damage the human corporation, but it would destroy the devil’s soul completely, just like what hellfire does to angel’s. Aziraphale’s first reaction was not “I won't help you because this is against the rules in Heaven” - which he would use as an excuse later, but fear, thinking that if Crowley got hold of the holy water, he could get hurt, whether accidentally or intentionally (if I talk more about the time Neil told us that Aziraphale doesn't keep holy water in the bookstore to protect himself from demons because doing so could accidentally hurt Crowley, I will scratch the wall and cry for another ten minutes).

Crowley got angry when Aziraphale called their relationship fraternising. He was accepting the risk when he asked for holy water so he could continue to be friends with this angel, and his angel called the thing he was trying to protect ‘fraternising’ like a something beneath him or similar, and angrily replied, “I have lots of other people to fraternise with, angel.”

And Aziraphale left, also angrily, burning Crowley’s holy water request, and the two of them never spoke again for nearly a hundred years... (yeah, they really didn’t see each other again) until Crowley saw Aziraphale get in trouble with the Nazis and jumped in to save him.

This might just be my own guess, but Aziraphale was faced with two choices here: either continue to be friends with Crowley but it would put him into a dangerous situation that he had to ask for dangerous insurance, or quit it before the time to use the insurance had come. It was clear which choice he took.

(About the reason Aziraphale left: when Aziraphale broke off his relationship with Crowley, he was also in conflict with himself about their relationship and his own relationship with Heaven, for more details you can read in this essay about Aziraphale as autistic-coded character (this is my backbone when watching the TV show). Aziraphale has done this several times: in the bandstand or the last moment of season 2, he always ended their relationship when he was overwhelmed with emotions, even though he didn’t want to.)

(In 1880s, about 20-30 years after St. James park, Aziraphale was learning to dance in a “discreet gentlemen club” which is, confirmed by Neil, a heavy reference of a real gay club back then.

and I can’t stop thinking about the headcanon “Aziraphale was so sad after he broke up with his ‘queer friend’ that he went and found other ‘queer friends’ for comfort”. Which also explained why Crowley didn’t know he could dance, since at that time they weren’t around each other to tell the story, and also Aziraphale wouldn’t be able to explain why he was in a gay club when they were on break---)

- 1941, The London Blitz: Aziraphale realised the feeling…?

At the sudden meet up after 79 years (if the 1827 Aziraphale consider one month of not meeting Crowley was a long time, I wonder how heartbreaking it was for him to not being able to meet him for almost a century), Aziraphale saw how Crowley still eyeing holy water but still hadn’t got it ever since he first asked for it (it kinda prove that Crowley didn’t need it when he wasn’t fraternising with Aziraphale), and in the same night:

practically realised his love for Crowley/realised how loved he was by Crowley

explicitly said to Crowley they are friends

saved Crowley from Hell’s punishment (=> and had it sink in again how much in trouble he would made Crowley for being with him)

had a romantic candle dinner with him in the bookshop's backroom

In one. single. night. Now that I talk about it, they really had had a wild night in 1941.

Aziraphale may be slow to change, but once given enough time to figure something out, he is extremely determined and stubborn. The moment he realised how much Crowley cared for him: jumping into consecrated ground to save him, using a miracle to save precious books, even though the two of them were still angry at each other; Aziraphale realised. Did he realise he had feelings for Crowley, or realised that Crowley cared about him more than a friend? Only Aziraphale knows it. Michael Sheen once said: “This was the point where Aziraphale falls in love with Crowley.” (23:30)

Bonus: About this post on Tumblr:

I think I don’t need to say much more. Let’s think about how, from then on, they have started a relationship that wasn’t about asking favours back and forth anymore: it's about friends helping each other when the other person needs it. Keep it in mind, because we will return to this point in a moment.

So, yes, they started their relationship again after that 1941 dinner, and there was also that unfilmed scene in the 1960s in America. It would eventually bring back the reason Crowley needed his insurance again, and this time, instead of asking Aziraphale and risking breaking up like they did once, Crowley went and planned to get it himself (I wonder if Crowley was rubbing it in Aziraphale's face to plan his heist in a pub just right across the bookshop. I know Soho was a good place for that shading activity according to Neil, but really, that petty? Even though he still didn’t want Aziraphale to find out?) before being stopped by Aziraphale who accidentally heard about it.

- 1967: The shift in the relationship and the unconscious confession

Crowley knew best how stubborn Aziraphale was, that’s why he always try to nudge him to agree to stuffs in roundabout ways in their 6000 years of knowing each other (like the time he made excuse so that Aziraphale would agree to help him raise the Antichrist).

But he had never persuaded Aziraphale to give him the holy water again.

“You told me what you think 105 years ago.”

He didn't do his usual to convince Aziraphale, but Aziraphale himself had come up and gave him what he wanted, just like Aziraphale had not asked him to rescue the books, but Crowley still used his demonic miracle to help them not being burnt to a crisp even though Aziraphale, who worships his books just as he worships his God, had forgotten about them.

Gave holy water to a demon, gave the demon an ultimate weapon that can make other demons fear of him. Something that would make Heaven smite him, for fraternising with a demon. Why? Because he was his friend. The only one he could see as friend in this whole universe.

“Should I say thank you?” “Better not.”

How risky and dangerous it is, to help an angel from being discorporated. To give a demon insurance from Hell’s rage.

But Aziraphale did it anyway instead of leaving, because he wanted to be with Crowley. And Crowley understood the meaning of that action. And this action changed something in their 6,000-year relationship that seemed to always remain unchanged, and that change was more dangerous than the word “friends" that they had gradually accepted in recent years, and they began to speak in a code that only the other could understand, because their fear of being discovered was ingrained in their celestial/occult’s blood, because this was how they spoke from the beginning, was the dance they have been doing for six thousand years.

“Well, can I drop you anywhere?” Crowley asked. (Let me help you back, I owe you this. Let me drop you somewhere else, somewhere nice, to say thank you. Maybe we can do something else, because clearly something has shifted heavily in our relationship, you just admit to me that you want to stay with me despite everything you believe in, and can I know more about that decision?)

Aziraphale had answered: “No, thank you. Oh, don't look so disappointed.”

(No, please don’t look so disappointed. I’m not rejecting you. I’m not rejecting this advancement in our relationship.)

“Perhaps one day we could… Go for a picnic. Dine at the Ritz.”

(We have done this so many times. We had so many shared meals together. We had gone out for no reason at all because we were friends. I had already admitted that you are my friend 26 years ago and you heard that. No, I’m not talking about the obvious matter that we are friends. I’m telling you we can advance this relationship at some point in the future, into whatever state it leads us to.)

So when Crowley offered, again, in a sickeningly soft voice, “I can give you a lift, anywhere you want to go”, it was so painfully, clearly a plea: “I’m ready to do this, angel, I want to be of use to you, I want to be with you anywhere”.

Crowley was offering something outside of their Arrangement, not just part of the ‘I own you you own me’ circle over and over again for years, but something beyond that, a plea that they could remain this current new side of the relationship. Or, maybe, he was seeking confirmation of whatever spark happened that night of 1941, the night they started helping each other outside of the Arrangement, the first time Crowley gave Aziraphale a lift with his brand new car.

It’s worth noting here that there’s a moment in season 2 that (in my interpretation) confirms 2023 Crowley still doesn’t realise his feelings for Aziraphale are “love”. So what does the code ‘I’ll give you a lift, anywhere you want to go’ mean here, if I keep insisting that Crowley already confessed in 1967?

Crowley is an optimist who improvises on the go, intuitive and has strong feelings. He rarely plans in advance, but most of his plans are “we will cross the bridge when we get there”. Evidence: it shows in the book that Crowley only thought of trapping Hastur in the answering machine when Aziraphale called him; or he always chose to run away first instead of finding a way to solve it, whether it is Armageddon or Satan.

So, by the time he offered to give Aziraphale a lift anywhere he wanted, Crowley was sensing a new shift in their relationship. And although he knew it was moving in a positive direction, he didn’t really understand it as “love” - and at that moment, didn’t really think about the opportunities, possibilities, nor the dangers that may arise if they continue to move beyond this relationship milestone.

But Aziraphale knew. Aziraphale, who understood that if he expressed his love for a devil would make him a traitor to Heaven, would cause him to be completely destroyed, would put Crowley in danger.

Aziraphale, just as sad and as gentle as he could, stopped him there.

“You go too fast for me, Crowley.”

(Like I said: I’m not prepared. You might be ready, and you might be eager to pursue this, but we are still not in the clear and there’s still danger if we do it. So let’s stop this conversation.)

Aziraphale had actually given Crowley the greenlight, in a possible future. When they no longer have to fear the punishment of Heaven and Hell, when they are free.

But until then, would Crowley still love him? Would Crowley still be waiting for him, and this world, to prepare?

Conclusion:

And that’s what I meant when I said 1967 was the year the two of them confessed their love to each other, even though the result never led to a new step or the end of their relationship, and one angel and one devil continue to know each other in fear, but with an understanding: that they can go further if this world allow them.

Before ending this post, I want to add one more detail that may be extremely important, but has not been completely confirmed yet. At the end of season 1 and in the novel, when the two of them ate a luxurious meal at the Ritz - the most luxurious hotel in England (they have been eating there together for a long time), there was a musician in the room playing and singing the song “A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square", with the following lyrics:

♪ That certain night ♪ The night we met ♪ There was magic abroad in the air ♪ There were angels dining at the Ritz ♪ And a nightingale sang in Berkeley Square

And the narrator, God (!!!) had said that when they were eating at the Ritz, there really was a nightingale singing in the Berkeley Square!!!

At the end of season 2, both Crowley and Aziraphale understood the nightingale's reference to love, and even used the bird to point out their love for each other???

sO the important thing we need to know here is whether Aziraphale understood this reference when he said “perhaps one day we could dine at the Ritz” in 1967? If he actually knew about it then, then this conversation he had with Crowley is even more obvious “we can be lovers but not now”. Even though this post would stand its point if he didn’t know it, but, if he did, I would literally put Neil in a demonic circle with ominous candles.

Edit: youryurigoddess has a meta’s about the possibility that both Aziraphale and Crowley had heard this song together and considered it their song in 1941. So it proves my point here, and I’m preparing the candles.

(Also, in case he didn’t know about the nightingale song then, I still think he would have heard Queen’s “Good Old-Fashioned Lover Boy” whenever Crowley giving him a lift somewhere:

♪ Dining at the Ritz, we'll meet at nine ♪ (One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine o'clock) precisely ♪ I will pay the bill, you taste the wine ♪ Driving back in style, in my saloon, will do quite nicely ♪ Just take me back to yours, that will be fine ♪ Come on and get it ♪ Ooh, love (there he goes again) ♪ Ooh, lover boy (he's my good old-fashioned lover boy, ooh) ♪ What're you doing tonight? Hey, boy ♪ Everything's all right, just hold on tight ♪ That's because I'm a good old-(fashioned, fashioned) lover boy

If Aziraphale still didn’t get in then I will give up.)

EXTRA BONUS:

I just read a post with the exact same topic as this one, but about the scene after Armageddon was successfully averted, and Crowley asked Aziraphale to come to his house after saying Aziraphale’s bookstore had burned down, you can read it here.

To summarise: In season 1 episode 2’s script, when Gabriel and Sandalphon went to the bookstore on Thursday (after Warlock’s birthday, Crowley went to Aziraphale’s bookstore to have a drink, which was Wednesday), Aziraphale could see Crowley walked out to his Bentley from window, that’s why Sandalphon smelled evil: because Crowley had just left.

So what does it mean? It means: Crowley just spent the night at Aziraphale bookstore. This one time didn’t really mean anything, the two of them have probably stayed at each other’s house overnight several times to drink alcohol. But, if so, then why did Aziraphale act so worried when Crowley invited him to sleep over at his house, if staying over at each other's house wasn’t something strange compared to before?

Because the moment Aziraphale stood up to Heaven and Hell, along with Crowley telling them about the Ineffable Plan to abort the Apocalypse, it was also the moment Aziraphale came out that he was on the same side as Crowley, that Aziraphale has betrayed Heaven. So when Crowley said:

“You can stay at my place, if you’d like.”

It’s. Not. It’s not as simple as ‘oh your house burned down I can give you a space to rest’ NO. It’s not that simple.

Crowley was suggesting something else, whether he was aware he was suggesting it or not, and Aziraphale understood it. Like when Aziraphale telling Crowley in 1967 “someday, who knows, we might have dinner at the Ritz” even though the two of them had dined together many times before and the Ritz also was just a restaurant like any other restaurant, if more luxurious: but it has a different meaning, because the two of them had learned about the song of the nightingale, about the love that blossomed while the two angels had dinner at the Ritz…

So what did Crowley mean when he invited Aziraphale over, you asked me again? To be honest, I’m not sure. My last three brain cells are yelling “THEY DEFINITELY FUCKED BUT IT WAS A DRUNKEN NIGHT AND THEY NEVER MENTIONED IT AGAIN JUST LIKE THAT CONFESSION IN 1967. DON’T BELIEVE IT? JUST LOOK AT AZIRAPHALE IN SEASON 2!!!!!”

Aziraphale in season 2 really was this close 🤏 to have a feast on Crowley’s body, I am sure about that. I don’t believe they’ve done nothing in 4 years; I didn’t believe that they held hands in the bus back then, but now I am a firm believer ✊✊✊ Just as how they had a 6-hour drinking at the news of Armageddon or how they stayed overnight drinking away the shock that Warlock was not the Antichrist, I believe that after the success of averting the end of the world, they held hand on the bus and then had a drinking blast back at the flat and then during drunkenness they fucked. And then not another word again. For four years, “pretending we are not together, but not really for the last few years”.

(I will have another post for this later)

Even so, if you don’t think they actually do something too intimate, then I think Crowley’s invitation still means something: we are now on our side now, please be together with me Aziraphale. Maybe he was trying to bring back the unanswered question back in 1967, when Aziraphale asked him to wait: Have you caught up now? Am I still too fast for you?

“You don’t have a side anymore. Neither of us do.”

They are no longer restrained by Heaven and Hell, Crowley reminded Aziraphale, the speed limit (danger) is no longer there. And that Crowley was still waiting for Aziraphale, that now Aziraphale had a chance to choose Crowley.

(Crowley I swear to God Herself-)

#good omens #good omens 2 #ineffable husbands #crowley #aziraphale #azicrow #crowley good omens #aziraphale good omens #1967 good omens #good omens analysis

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maryholdenofthevalley · 3 months

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am I the only one went crazy when Aziraphale said "love" and put his hand on Crowley's hand? no? just me?

The Good Omens Musical Masterpost🎵❤

How it started :)

Some time before 2013: Vicki Larnach, the australian composer and lyricist, read the Good Omens book, imagined figures dancing on stage with brilliant music and thought, ‘Ah, I’m gonna ask Terry Pratchet and Neil Gaiman if I can turn it into a musical.’ and sent an email to the publishers. The next day she got an email saying, ‘We don’t want a musical but Terry’s coming to Australia, so come and say hello and tell us what you got.’

Rob Wilkins came down to meet Vicki and Jim Hare - Vicki's husband and writer - and took them to meet Terry. They spent an hour and a half with them where Terry asked ‘piercing questions’, had tea with them and they showed Terry a song that Vicki wrote (about the Chattering Nuns). Terry said to Rob, ‘Rob, write and email to Neil, “Dear Neil, this is Terry. I’m sitting in front of two hippies from Sydney and they want to make a musical out of Good Omens and I’m tempted to let them do it.”’ which was the best email they ever heard and then Terry said, ‘Okay, you have me curious.’ - it was because of the Nuns song which sounded like the book. ‘I’m gonna give you six months, come back with a first draft libretto and five songs.’

They then sent it to Terry who sent it to Neil. Terry said, ‘I really like it, you’re moving story, you’re doing all the right things, but where’s showstopper, where’s the toe-tapper, you know I need people to go to intermission just snapping their fingers with the song they just can’t get out of their head, and I haven’t heard that.’ - and they realized that they were so busy serving the story they forgot to do the wow-factor, but found it very encouraging from Terry that he wanted to make it better.

They went through the whole book again to find a centrepiece - and they found it when Warlock is growing up and Aziraphale and Crowley are with him, and spent months working just on that one thing and called ‘All Living Things’ [the song at the start of this post :)] which is a line from the book.*’ Terry gave that song to a person he knew and asked him to play it to his wife with no context and when the next day the person said that his wife woke up still singing the song Terry said to Vicki and Jim: ‘Well, that’s what I asked you to do.’

* [“This here’s Brother Slug,” the gardener would tell him, “and this tiny little critter is Sister Potato Weevil. Remember, Warlock, as you walk your way through the highways and byways of life’s rich and fulsome path, to have love and reverence for all living things.” “Nanny says that wivving fings is fit onwy to be gwound under my heels, Mr. Fwancis,” said little Warlock, stroking Brother Slug, and then wiping his hand conscientiously on his Kermit the Frog overall.]

Vicki and Jim got the permission to being adapting it as a musical in 2013.

Vicki and Jim on it a couple of years ‘fumbling about’, took it as far as they could and decided to bring another person into it: Jay-James Moody

In 2015, Jay James-Moody joined the collaboration initially as a dramaturge and directorial eye, eventually evolving into co-book writer. Vicki, James and Jay have continued to evolve through countless more revisions and a number of private development readings with the support, time and talent of numerous wonderful Australian performers testing the material.

In November 2017, the musical was presented in its then-current form and entirety for the first time before an audience of over 500 eager attendees. The cast included Luke Joslin, Lachlan O’Brien, Nancye Hayes, Barry Quin, Brett O’Neill, Lauren McKenna, Nicholas Craddock, Paul Capsis, Rob Johnson, Amy Lehpamer, Debora Krizak, Blake Erickson, Nat Jobe, Ana Maria Belo, Jordan Hare, Bella Thomas, Anthony Abrakmanov and Samson Hyland.

Following a rapturous response to this reading it continued to be refined and developed.

In 2019, ten days before the show came out they did their last presentation, since then they’ve been to London and shown a videotape of that workshop to Neil and Rob which was ‘a pretty heartstopping experience’ but both Neil and Rob were ‘so lovely and very generous with their time’ and they were showing it to them and in the intermission Neil said ‘I wish Terry could have seen this.’ (see here :))

Differences between the musical and the book

The ending of the musical is a bit different, they were worried about it but Neil said, ‘I totally understand, the ending of the TV series is different, because I had something that was book-shaped and I needed to make it TV-shaped. And you had something that was book-shaped and you needed to make it stage-shaped.’

It opens with the burning of Agnes Nutter and Aziraphale and Crowley are introduced there.

Act One ends with them ‘essentially breaking up’ because of a huge argument and they dissolve their friendship, Act Two starts with the first time they meet.

The Future?

What is the future for the musical: in 2021 they said that they need to work on some things and then they hope to do another run, initially in Australia.

There will be a CD of the soundtrack available when the show is produced in it’s full version.

Videos

Vicki, Jim and Jay talking 46min about the musical (this video was shown at the Ineffable Con 3 in 2021 :))

Sizzle Reel 6min

Anathema singing The Perfect Place

Crowley calling Dagon to check on the hellhound

Shadwell and Newt

Aziraphale vanishing Hastur 👀

Links

Webpage

Instagram - a lot of more bts videos and pics :)

How to support?

Subsribe to the instagram page and like and comment that you want the musical on posts :)❤. If you want to be a sponsor or donor, there is contact on their webpage.

#good omens #good omens musical #crowley good omens #aziraphale good omens #ineffable husbands

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maryholdenofthevalley · 3 months

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Remember, kids: Aziraphale doesn't want to change Crowley, he just want his safety. Restoring the angel position was one of the way, but instead of making Crowley bend his way to Heaven's rules, he wanted to make Heaven bend its way to fit Crowley and his. He needs Crowley for it, together.

He wants to change Heaven for Crowley. He wants to see him smile, like angel Crowley used to do.

Aziraphale wants to become Crowley's Heaven

In the last Fifteen Minutes, Aziraphale was so delighted at the idea having Crowley back to Heaven and was visibly confused when Crowley declined. For me, it was a genuine reaction, but it sounds weird, right? Of course Aziraphale had known him for a long time, would know the one Crowley hates the most is Heaven, there would be no reason for him to do that?

I don't think he was being dishonest here. Now, I'm not saying Aziraphale was being totally manipulated by Metatron and would soon realizing his mistake. I never think this was a mistake, and I think Aziraphale will successfully make a big change (or a favourably mess) up there, but let's talk about the present. Or the past, when he was so delighted when he had the power to change Heaven. Heaven, the one place where, despite his resignation letter, still have Aziraphale's trust in its value (not the current management).

I mean, he only accepted to go back to Heaven when he was offered to run it, in other word, to become Heaven HIMSELF. He was going to change Heaven into a place where the person he loves the most can be at ease and no danger looming. He was going to be Crowley's Heaven. He was going to be Crowley's Home.

That's why he was so excited to bring him back and was confused when Crowley declined:

“Does he not want me?”

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This post was inspired by a quote I have always been obsessed with for the longest time ‘home is not a place, it's a person’ (and I just found out the original: the poem ‘The Explorers’ by Beau Taplin in their Buried Light poetry book:)

So Aziraphale wasn't consider Heaven as Crowley's home, but he planned to make it himself.

#good omens #good omens 2 #ineffable husbands #crowley #aziraphale #azicrow #crowley good omens #aziraphale good omens

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maryholdenofthevalley · 3 months

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Aziraphale wants to become Crowley's Heaven

That's why he was so excited to bring him back and was confused when Crowley declined:

“Does he not want me?”

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So Aziraphale wasn't consider Heaven as Crowley's home, but he planned to make it himself.

#good omens #good omens 2 #ineffable husbands #crowley #aziraphale #azicrow #crowley good omens #aziraphale good omens #good omens theories

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maryholdenofthevalley · 3 months

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It's funny to me when Prime fucked up with their caption for Good Omens season 2, so now the whole fandom started using Angel, with a capital A, when Crowley call Aziraphale.

Meanwhile it has been 'angel' with a lowercase a since the novel and season 1.

I might be a bit of a dick here, but consider that whether it's uppercase or lowercase is important in Good Omens (i.e. rank of angels), I feel a bit sad whenever Crowley uses Angel to Aziraphale, it sounds too formal, you know? Or is it just me? It's like when Shax said it mockingly or when Crowley hissed ‘Archangel Gabriel’ in S2E5, very different from the soft, endearing ‘angel’ Crowley preserves for only Aziraphale and the one that Anathema thought they were gay XD

#good omens #good omens 2 #ineffable husbands #crowley #aziraphale #azicrow #crowley good omens #aziraphale good omens #in domestic there is no uppercase #or im just crazy

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maryholdenofthevalley · 5 months

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Profiction / Proship FAQ - The basics.

What is “proship“ or “profiction”?

From my understanding profiction has been vastly tainted in the eyes of many people who are giving out false definitions of what it is to be profiction / proship, from spreading false information on what qualifies a proshipper to what it even means - to literally accusing all proshippers of being part of the MAP community. Many young fandom users have no idea what proshipping is because of the false information and lies being spread, so naturally they’d get riled up at someone being profiction or proship - because after all, if you had no knowledge and were impressionable and the first thing you heard was “it’s a pedophile den”, wouldn’t you be hostile?

Let me set it straight. To be proship is plain and simple.

It means you don’t care what people ship, stay in your own lane, ship what you like and don’t go out of your way to harass others over their shipping or fictional preferences. You block creators who make content you dislike, use filters / tagging systems to avoid said content and respectfully encourage others to do the same.

Proship and profictions follow the fandom mantra of SALS (Ship and let ship), YKINMK (Your kink is not my kink) and DL;DR (Don’t like? Don’t read/consume.) Abide by content warnings, tag your blogs / works / art, actively curate your space and for the love of God don’t accuse someone of being heinously disgusting things over fiction.

That is literally it.

There is nothing deeper to it.

But wait - I don’t like underage ships / incest ships / anything problematic, so I can’t be proship?

You absolutely can! Even if you hate problematic ships personally, so long as you believe in the core principle that nobody deserves to be harassed over fiction and actively curate your space by blocking others / filtering / not leaving shitty comments or hate, you’re profiction/proship.

Everybody has limits, triggers and trauma to work through. Everybody has things that make them uncomfortable. We’re all humans, therefore the expectation that you HAVE to like all incest ships / underage / etc. is toxic and not welcome since it goes against the core principle of being profiction. Anybody who gets mad at you personally for curating your space, staying in your own lane, having triggers, disliking a certain brand of fictional media and goes against you setting firm boundaries is not someone you want to be around and is not following in the spirit of what being proship is.

I’ve been treated badly by proshippers before in the past, I naturally don’t trust you guys!

I completely understand where you are coming from, given my own experience on either ”stances” as an ex-anti. I’ve met a lot of unsavoury “proship” dudebros who decided to send me loli gore because I said I didn’t like that content.

We do not claim these people, despite them trying to co-opt the label and “defend” us. It is abhorrent, disgusting, disturbing and downright unpleasant behaviour. I’ve also been groomed with said loli fiction as a younger teenager by an adult who would call me an irl loli and subject me to a lot of shit I was very upset by.

On the same hand, I’ve been abused by antis as well who groomed me into a false sense of security by telling me they were “out for” my best interests, goading me into a false sense of security and safeness with them. The ones telling me that liking xyz fiction was horrific and would turn me into an abuser were the ones trying to encourage me to do acts for them I never consented to.

The point is, no side or stance or group of people is perfect. Abusers and groomers and horrible people lurk in every space, from every part of the world, in every community. It is very difficult to seperate your trauma experiences from the people who hurt you as you desperately are trying to find something or someone to blame.

I made excuses for my abusers, blamed the fiction they liked, their political stances, opinions, because it was easier to do so than to just accept that some people are monsters and to fully accept that it was my abuser’s actions that caused my torment, through and through.

Anti, proship, moderate, whatever - labels and groups can spawn monsters in them no matter where you are or what you believe. Please do not shun all profictions or proshippers as malicious or evil - I can guarantee we aren’t, given I’ve met the most wonderful and kindest people around who have done so much for me and my wellbeing.

While I dislike antis as an ideology, I don’t think many antis are even evil or bad people. I still disagree with them and their takes on fiction, but I would not openly say all of them are abusers, Y’know?

Fiction affects reality, why do you all say it doesn’t?

I’m... really baffled by this one, honestly. I think it’s embarrassing people still think this is what profiction/proships believe? I’ve never even seen anybody ever say this out of, like, making fun or being sarcastic or whatever.

I think any proship or profiction person claiming fiction doesn’t affect reality 100% is wrong, it does, but not on a 1:1 scale. You don’t go around murdering people in a violent video game, tearing their heads off, beating them, torturing them and copy that behaviour if you’re, say, an average 20 something year old with an average functioning brain.

With children it’s more complicated. Children are more easily influenced with fiction due to not having fully developed brains, but a healthy adult mind should be able to diffrentiate between the two. This is why for nsfw+ adult works and dead dove content warnings are a MUST and adult curated spaces need to be kept away from the prying eyes of young, impressionable developing minds.

I think it’s also to note the scope of a work - something produced by disney and aimed at kids is likely to attract a HUGE audience of millions to watch it and also be consumed by children making it highly impressionable. My 18+ NSFW fanfic involving college kids fucking is likely to receive, if I’m lucky, 500 views and a few hundred kudos. It’s also for adults, marketed at adults and I really don’t see how you can turn and blame fanfic writers or artists who are desperately putting out warnings and trying to keep children away from them. We’re not a childs parent, we’re not their guardian - is it wrong to expect a child’s parents to step up and look after their kid online?

Tagging appropriately, keeping your nsfw off kids shows tags, blocking minors who try to interact - all of these should be the norm. I firmly believe adults and minors online should be kept separately when it comes to certain content.

But I heard it meant pedophile / abuse apologist / racist / etc?

I’m really sorry but you’ve been lied to by somebody who either heard it on the grapevine wrong or have been intentionally mislead / lied to.

The profiction community, like any, has it’s fair share of problems and issues that exist in any space but nowhere have I seen anybody greenlight or support actual pedophilia or MAPs.

If a proship or profiction person turns out to be racist, homophobic, transphobic - that’s on them, not the entire group and (at least) all my peers and mutuals would not hesitate to call them out and check them.

Dudebros are a problem. The twitter lolicons that throw around slurs yet claim to be proship or profiction are a menace to us as well! We don’t want them around, nor do we support them, nor do we want them interacting with us.

I .... just need to stress how heinous the lie is that profiction / proshippers are all pedophiles given that most of us are abuse survivors and actual csa / abuse victims. By spreading the lie that it’s a safe haven for MAPs you are actively encouraging and endangering people much younger than me to be exposed and drawing predators into the false narrative that pedophiles are welcome in our spaces.

How do I put this bluntly.

You are encouraging proship minors that do exist REAL human people to be endangered by actual predators that may try to infiltrate the community and actively groom / harm people, not in fiction but in real life. I cannot tell you how sick that makes me feel and how utterly evil that is.

On a more logical note, though... like I said, every group, side, stance is open to predators. There’s no magical group of predators that all congregate together other than I guess the MAP community, but given I’ve established profictions not being at all affiliated / in cahoots, yeah.

Look at what happened to CreepShowArt, a well known anti who turned out to be a serial abuser, stalker and in possession of actual nudes of a minor. Yeah. We can do the whole “well your group has x person in it so you’re all predators!!!” all day, truth is monsters can lurk under any community.

I’m still uncomfortable with the content profictions produce / create, I would rather not see it at all. How could you support that?

You’re absolutely valid to feel uncomfortable with certain content, whether it’s a ship or a character or incest content - whatever it is. Whoever tries to push that on you actively is wrong. You deserve your own boundaries and to be respected as a person.

I would strongly advise that if you are extremely triggered by a ship or content type to please block everything under those tags and block users who make it and create it, even ask a friend to do it for you if you can’t look at it.

I do also need to stress, digital self harm is a thing... the amount of people I’ve seen delibrately going on content they know will upset them just to hurt themselves / get angry / riled up is insane right now. If you do this - I cannot stop you, but I would advise you seek help from a therapist or advisor / guardian. It’s not weak to ask for help, nor is it a failing on your part.

What I do not advocate for, or support or tolerate is you taking out your own trauma and discomforts on others over ships or characters or series they enjoy. That’s unhealthy and borderline toxic behaviour that should not be tolerated. Starting witch hunts because you saw some adults nsfw art on their OWN personal blog that was TAGGED and clearly NOT FOR CHILDREN is not the artists’s fault. Under no circumstances are you ever, ever permitted to ask for someone else’s abuse history, trauma or speculate on why they enjoy x, y and z media. No where ever is it acceptable to treat a person like a subhuman over their damn fictional shipping preferences regardless of how triggered or emotionally compromised you are. You know the kind of person that takes their own pain out on others and delibrately goes out of their way to cause hurt is.... an abuser. Plain and simple.

So you wanna know why I’m not an anti anymore - Why did I change? Why am I proship?

Because I’m tired of not being able to enjoy a ship / pairing out of fear of being doxxed.

I’m tired of not being able to create the content I am passionate about because it’s too “problematic” or risky.

I’m tired of being told that I’m only valid if I’m a gold star survivor that ships the right things and like the right fictional drawings.

I’m tired of having to air out my personal trauma to justify shipping, actually, It sucks. I don’t want random people online to know my personal deepest fucking memories that hurt to think about.

I’m sick of being told adult age gaps are problematic or pedophilia.

Sick of american antis twisting non-incest pairings into incest and being xenophobic - see the kaeluc situation and the recent drama over the jjk pixiv ship list and how absolutely racist antis were being towards Japanese artists for being “freaks” for goyuu being the most popular pairing.

Sick of the rampant abuse and casual ableism thrown around by antis, homophobia, transphobia, bigotry, racism, the delibrate twisting of words like fujoshi.

Sick of being told I’m as bad as my rapist for liking a villain, getting told I deserved to be raped and abused, getting told I never was abused actually and having my entire trauma speculated over a fucking shipping preference.

Tired of the radfem rhetoric antis love to use and spew, anti-kink shit regurgitated directly from terf tumblr - and this shit is well documented. https://twitter.com/dionysiaca/status/1193263490540150784?s=21

I was tired of being, pretending, trying so desperately to fit in with a group that wouldn’t hesitate to call me a rampant sex offender over fiction at the drop of a hat.

I was tired of being scared of not standing up for myself and letting people push me around and dictate to me what I SHOULD feel and think about problematic fiction.

And I had the ample resources and proof to realise that not only are antis wrong on a surface level but they’re deeply wrong about the science behind fiction. Deeply, deeply so.

The list could go on. I have so, so many reasons for changing my beliefs, cutting off my anti friends and starting afresh.

I’m happier now.

This isn’t as serious as you make it out to be lol / Do you think this is normal behaviour?

It’s taken as seriously as it is because real people - often abuse survivors and victims - are being hurt not only online but offline. Doxxing, actual physical threats of violence - the works. For every single “lol this is just online drama” there’s someone trying to dox and ruin an artists career. Blacklist them from their work and even try to cut mutuals and friends off them over shipping. There’s a cold, cruel streak of approaching already vulnerable people and telling them to kill themselves and when they do it - when they try - well, ya’ll just spin it as fake and attention seeking.

Do you think that is normal?

Please - go ahead, see below just a small taste of what you’re also considering “normal” and only a really few examples of harassment in fandom spaces by antis.

https://twitter.com/theslowesthnery/status/1371828365083217922?s=21

https://youtu.be/68i4P1UxXkA

https://youtu.be/gjcIHD5620s

https://twitter.com/miracide_/status/1395108117168394240?s=21

Yeah.

Speaks for itself.

More, uh, funny examples here: https://twitter.com/4ntitak3s?s=21 just to highlight the ridiculousness of it all.

I also... question the use of normality heavily in anti spaces as an insult. Given proshippers and profictions are nearly always abuse survivors, mentally ill and often nearly communities of entirely queer people... we’re not considered normal by society anyway, for those reasons.

I do wonder sometimes if there’s a deep level of insecurity over perhaps not being normal or the odd one out that gets projected onto those who seem stranger to you, because I don’t know very many “normal” people in all honesty.

Like the way this gets thrown around by the same people who desperately want to be considered normal themselves, it’s just throwing stones at glass houses with an insult that’s pretty much the standard vitriol the neurotypical cishet dude throws at you for being different in any way. 🤷‍♂️

Perhaps it’s because I was an ex-anti, and a very insecure person at that - I wanted so badly to be normal and not secretly into some rather taboo nasty shit on the downlow. The guilt that knaws at you when you know you’re not a saint, feeling dirty and disgusting and just plain horrible for not being normal... yeah. I know that feeling.

But you know, it’s water off a ducks back now because I grew up. It’s something you get used to. I’m even happy to be considered different now, even in small intangible ways.

I think if antis had to perhaps see us as anything more than two dimensional villains, their world view might fall apart sometimes.

Yeah, anyways, I think I’m fine with not being normal now. Personally. It’s a blessing.

I guess the question is, are you?

A few poignant profic resources / posts for the curious that kickstarted me to becoming proship, feel free to add your own with reblogs.

https://psychexpressions.carrd.co/

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mn7iPglqMONo80DwsSlRzObTyCpT8QnxpzAZllYPGUQ/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13Ry-MYL4Z5cIkuUFUQSRgXjAxNkZYLobcec9IpcZVho/edit

https://freedom-of-fanfic.tumblr.com/post/173070571094/the-straight-line-from-fandom-antis-to-swerf

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