⚠️this is anti jonsa and jonrya if you don't want to read please just don't i'm not interested in arguing⚠️

so i mostly just try and avoid jonsa and jonrya posts cause i'm not a fan but ultimately i agree with letting people ship what they want, and for the most part it's not harming anyone and i just hope that the shippers don't have siblings lmao

but i just need to rant for a sec because why do so many jonsa and jonrya shippers want it to be canon in the books?? and are convinced one or the other will be canon in the books? because, like, that would make jon (a character the shippers presumably like) a canon pedo!

setting aside the incest (which is hard but clearly a lost cause) i can understand aus and that by the end of the show sophie turner and maisie williams were adults but in the books sansa's 13 and arya's 11, whereas jon's 17! which, in my books, would make him a nonce 😭

like i get it's a different time and god knows how much of this fandom just don't care about adults being with literal children but i love jon and he's already canonically fucked his aunt in the show so i'd really also rather he doesn't fuck his literal child sisters/cousins, is that too much to ask people to not campaign for?

not to mention it's not just any 13 and 11 year olds but ones he watched grow up and as someone with a 14 year old sister i can't even wrap my head around her being a teenager, like she's fully still a baby to me, so it's just so weird to me.

anyway just a bit of a mean thing to wish upon a pretty morally sound character... at least in the context of asoiaf. grrm please don't move jon to the same category as the likes of tyrion, drogo and jorah 🙏

Hi! So sorry for the rant, but:

That anon with the whole "Lyanna being the woman in the prophecy" did we even read the same books/watched the same show? The prophecy doesn't talk about a woman, it talks about the PWWP and the three heads of the dragon. Rhaegar's narcissist ass thought that HE would be the one to give birth to the prince, killed Elia and Lyanna in the process, ruined Visery's and Danny's lifes, caused a crisis in Westeros, and yet somehow this fandom focusess into "who he loved more" ffs

absolutely, who knows where they got that from? so typical to mistake a tragedy as some shallow love triangle

Lyanna starks haunts the narrative. You should see how jealous Elia's fans are from this fact. They want george and the narrative to care for her. They think it's unfair that Elia doesn't haunt it too when all that she is is a plot device, while lyanna is the woman of the prophecy and the mother of Jon, the promised one. It's not like I hate Elia, but someone dared to say that Elia deserved the flower crown at Harrenhall when it's lyanna's motif.

I can't wait until they see that even Arthur Dayne cared for lyanna more. He probably stayed by her side comforting her after Rhaegar's death. I wouldn't be surprised if he was attracted to her. Not to hate on Elia but to show them the truth.

i'm so sorry but you've come to the wrong place, yes i was crying over lyanna a couple hours ago but i've cried over elia too because what could you possibly have against a dead woman in asoiaf who's only crime was... being in an arranged marriage? not being lyanna?

in all seriousness maybe george and the narrative don't care about elia but i do. she watched her baby's head be caved in and then was brutally raped and murdered and i hate that that's the most important thing we know about her. i wish elia was as important as lyanna, but how cruel is it to sit and compare two dead women by how much they matter to the living men.

also i have no idea what you're talking about arthur dayne and you can say this isn't hating, but it feels kinda like hating to me 😭

EDIT: i've thought about it more and "i wouldnt be surprised if he was attracted to her. not to hate on elia but to show them the truth" is such a wild statement please don't come back 😭

Lyanna starks haunts the narrative. You should see how jealous Elia's fans are from this fact. They want george and the narrative to care for her. They think it's unfair that Elia doesn't haunt it too when all that she is is a plot device, while lyanna is the woman of the prophecy and the mother of Jon, the promised one. It's not like I hate Elia, but someone dared to say that Elia deserved the flower crown at Harrenhall when it's lyanna's motif.

I can't wait until they see that even Arthur Dayne cared for lyanna more. He probably stayed by her side comforting her after Rhaegar's death. I wouldn't be surprised if he was attracted to her. Not to hate on Elia but to show them the truth.

i'm so sorry but you've come to the wrong place, yes i was crying over lyanna a couple hours ago but i've cried over elia too because what could you possibly have against a dead woman in asoiaf who's only crime was... being in an arranged marriage? not being lyanna?

in all seriousness maybe george and the narrative don't care about elia but i do. she watched her baby's head be caved in and then was brutally raped and murdered and i hate that that's the most important thing we know about her. i wish elia was as important as lyanna, but how cruel is it to sit and compare two dead women by how much they matter to the living men.

also i have no idea what you're talking about arthur dayne and you can say this isn't hating, but it feels kinda like hating to me 😭

EDIT: i've thought about it more and "i wouldnt be surprised if he was attracted to her. not to hate on elia but to show them the truth" is such a wild statement please don't come back 😭

lyanna stark ruined me for life, i used to be normal and now i think of a character haunting the narrative and just start crying in the dirt

hate when dudebro dunkenegg fans talk about dunk as like a chad hugecock whos gonna fuck his way through westeros.. boy shut up that is a nice man. that is a nice boy. he blushes about tanselle that is a nice boy who stumbles his way into stammering at beautiful women who are entranced by this humble beguiling 7ft tall jacked ingenue

listening to sansa i again and like. she and arya have the most normal sibling problems ever LMFAO. this series has fratricide and twincest and yet the most unhinged discourse exists about 11-year-old and 9-year-old sisters who are simply very different people and are (not so simply) contending with insane westerosi gender expectations. and cersei’s there! would YOU be normal to a sibling if cersei lannister were inflicted upon your developing personality? then killed your dog specifically to spite said sibling

feel so bad for egg because can you imagine unlearning the targaryen mess that is "sibling incest is cool 😎", only for two of your kids to be the first ones to shag and get married (IN SECRET) since your great grandfather the unworthy died

just finished reading a knight of the seven kingdoms: 😁

just finished reading egg's wiki page: ☹️😭

i need to find a way to distinguish those who love arya and sansa from those who also want to ship one of them with their brother NOW i can't go on like this

recently finished the last 10 chapters of adwd in one day so i'd reach my reading goal for the year, here's a summary of the messages i sent to my friend that has only watched the show (spoilers ahead duh):

in reference to cersei's walk of shame: "grrm will not shut up about how saggy her tits are 😭"

"does she start crying and crawling at the end in the show i can't remember"

"also before her walk kevan came to talk to her about myrcella getting hurt and immediatly she was like: 'it was tyrion!! he did it!!'"

"kevan: 'no we know who did it-' cersei: 'it was tyrion!!'"

"meanwhile tyrion's narrowly escaping being eaten by lions in meereen she thinks way too highly of him"

found out ser barristion was in love with ashara dayne when he was like 45 and she was like 12-21 and said: "that's so ser jorah coded of him"

"i need this book to end i can't take this anymore"

"doran martell's son just tried to steal the dragons and got absolutely fried"

"oh dany's fucked off with drogon btw"

then proceeded to complain about dany fucking off for a few paragraphs

"i'm pretty sure i'm on jon's death chapter now so excuse me while i go cry"

*insert picture of me post heavy sobbing*

"'stick them with the pointy end' what if i told you i just fucking lost it"

sent a picture of a paragraph where dany is basically just shitting and said: "as if i didn't just read the most heart-breaking thing ever"

"in the same chapter as the shitting alone she also: got covered in ants while she slept and threw up 'green slime'"

"immediately followed up by a double varys homicide"

bonus from my friend:

"yeah he really thought dany shitting would keep us entertained for the next decade"

the way some people talk about the people of king's landing to justify what dany did makes me so angry sometimes. i recently saw a post on instagram say something along the lines of "well they cheered for ned's death so they deserved what they got," and that's just? so ridiculous? as if the people of KL knew ned stark and personally betrayed him.

i also see a lot of people generally calling the people of KL criminals and evil as justification and honestly i just hate to think how these people view real life impoverished cities. i'm not saying every dany fan hates poor people but i do think anyone that thinks they deserved what they got needs to take a step back and think where that sentiment comes from.

What do you think about Ygritte speech to Jon about why Wildlings are justified in stealing?

As much as I’m sympathetic to common people rising up against the rich who privatize things these people need to survive (food, water, shelter, medicine), Jon’s response is pretty much accurate: The wildling raiders aren’t stealing fish and apples, but iron weapons, luxury items to trade with smugglers (for weapons), and kidnap women to sexually and domestically exploit. They don’t have the manpower to take their fight directly to the lords, so instead they steal from the common people they deride as “kneelers”, burning their villages and killing the inhabitants (at Queenscrown and Mole’s Town). And they know these people aren’t harming them directly and often have the bare minimum to survive in the North, but the raiders feel entitled to it because they took it by force. The Iron Islanders’ way of the Iron Price has a similar philosophy, and it has also brought its people suffering because it’s ultimately unsustainable; a society that can only take from others has no way to grow, can’t forge alliances during hard times, and is liable to suffer once the people who do have enough manpower to defeat them come to fight.

I made a point in another post that not all wildlings go on raids, and some farm/garden, breed animals, mine, trade, and even bake or smith. Ÿgritte herself comes from a village, which judging by the other wildling villages we’ve seen (Whitetree), means a collection of timber houses, a well, some gardens, and a sheepfold. So the idea that the raiding way is the only one she knows seems doubtful, but settled village life isn’t romanticized in her culture. But tending apple trees and fishing takes patience, which she doesn’t have.

jon hearing alliser thorne, othell, and bowen talking shit and conspiring against him while he’s taking a bath so he decides to stand up while he’s literally butt ass naked to say one of the most cunty lines he has. he couldn’t fucking help himself. he knew he had the opportunity to be a petty little bitch and took it. i don’t give a shit if rhaegar is his father that’s ned’s son.

what the fuck did ned say to cersei “your brother, or your lover?” YOOOOO CHILLLLL. one time cersei was proficiently gagged.

STARK MEN STAND ON MF BUISNESS!!!

actually can't believe that the song that, in the books, was used to blackmail tyrion and sung to himself as he murdered shae, a song that essentially follows his descent into violence... was sung by ed sheeran to arya in the show.

when jon finds out (if he finds out) that robb made him a stark, which will be more important than being made a king, for jon at least...but in the end, he also finds out about his parentage...he was a stark for a moment because the brother he always admired, saw him as one, and trusted jon with his kingdom. but even that will be taken from jon.

there's a very small but distinct change from book to show in s3e9 that i think is fascinating. right before the red wedding, catelyn and roose bolton are discussing edmure and roslin's bedding ceremony, and when bolton references catelyn's own bedding, she says this:

"Oh, Ned forbade it. He said it wouldn't be right if he broke a man's jaw on our wedding night."

whereas in the book, not only does this conversation not happen, but catelyn specifically recounts her bedding happening and makes no mention of ned being opposed at all.

i don't know for sure why this change was made but if i had to guess i'd say it was at least partly to make ned more likable to a modern audience. it's almost as if they were trying to make ned fit his reputation "better" but i actually think it misunderstands it completely.

ned is known throughout westoros as being "honourable", within westoros culture. the bedding ceremony isn't seen as being "dishonourable", it's tradition. ned going against that wouldn't add to his honourable reputation, it would make him some weird progressive guy that shuns tradition.

but the one time he does shun tradition is by bringing jon home and giving him a place in his family, and i think the change in the show takes away from just how strange that was for ned to do. ned stark conforms to tradition perfectly, except for that one smudge.