ishcliff - Tumblr blog

ishcliff · 9 days

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not really an ask, but i hope you are ok.

hi!! i am alright, i just have a very flooded inbox on account of my pretty vocal and firm criticism of canto vi part 3, both very kind messages and attempts to argue with/debate me, and i unfortunately have crippling social anxiety. (to everyone: don't feel bad for sending me a message, though!)

in addition, the single biggest issue i have with the part overall is related to a writing decision that was made extremely carelessly, and this has kind of taken all fun out of discussing it for me. i actually feel insulted by the lack of comprehension of the source material with this particular issue i have. it makes me question if anyone on the writing team actually read the book, that is how bad it is To Me Personally.

like, i don't mean a simple issue that i can just say "well, it's not meant to be a direct adaptation" and be fine with. i actually really enjoy heathcliff and catherine's relationship for what it is in limbus, and i understand that what they were going for was likely hareton and catherine 2, as well as what demian was talking about at the very end. i genuinely loved the ending out of context.

the issue i have is a specific reference to one of the most memorable scenes in the book being included at all completely undermines the plot of the canto. erlking's sentiment is basically all but the Direct Opposite of what book!heathcliff's sentiment on catherine's death is – book!heathcliff does not blame himself, he blames her, because he insists that the only reason why she is dying of heartbreak is because she rejected a life with him.

this line wasn't misinterpreted; it simply wasn't interpreted at all. because even in the structure of the reference itself, "i have not broken your heart – you have" alone, is the opposite of what erlking was saying the entire time.

this means possibly two things to me: 1) they are willing to make their own story weaker for the sake of a popular reference, and/or 2) they did not actually read the source material at all and therefore literally do not understand the context of that scene. both of these possibilities are kind of unacceptable to me, as a fan and consumer, and seeing people defend it makes me frustrated.

as a result, i am very cynical and kinda harsh at the moment. i already had pretty low trust in PJM as a whole in just about every way except their writing, but now even that is being called into question.

i use this blog purely for fun and i am not exactly having it, basically. eventually i will loop around to having fun criticizing it, but right now i'm just kinda feeling like the only straight person at gay high school.

thank you for checking on me!! it was very kind of you.

#asks #canto vi spoilers #canto vi part 3

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ishcliff · 15 days

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i think nelly being a hypocrite is intentional

sure, but what i'm Actually criticizing is this:

1) i think nelly's motive is extremely shallow if it could be potentially undone by her simply...not burning the letters. that was a choice she made. i don't find that compelling, personally.

2) heathcliff and catherine spend the climax of the canto essentially agreeing with nelly's criticism of their characters. when, again, heathcliff made multiple attempts to reach out to her and was stopped without either of their knowledge.

3) the lack of commentary from anyone pointing out her hypocrisy is very loud.

i wouldn't mind nelly being an antagonist if it didn't feel shallow and easily undone by just her doing literally anything else.

sometimes people criticize wuthering heights as being about bad communication, but this is inaccurate at best despite its popularity (and is a take regurgitated in this canto). wuthering heights is about class, gender, and racial conflict ruining relationships and making them contests of ownership. the fixation on heathcliff's lack of communication skills is just lame.

#asks #canto vi spoilers #canto vi part 3

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ishcliff · 15 days

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my favorite catherine trait is how she’s like When was I mean to you ever . In my life. You’re making it up

#wuthering heights

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ishcliff · 15 days

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nelly: your lack of communication has doomed me and yourselves across multiple universes. you can never break free because of your slothfulness.

also nelly: *destroys all of heathcliff's letters*

heathcliff: yeah you're right it was my fault

all of the other sinners: yeah nothing to see here

#canto vi part 3 #canto vi spoilers #idk what they thought they were cooking with this but it certainly wasn't food

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ishcliff · 16 days

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another point of the adaptation i am a bit critical of was the fixation on misunderstanding and embarrassment as being the source of heathcliff and catherine's conflict, when the true source (and, i would argue, the source of most conflicts in the novel) is class conflict.

not to say it's the Only Conflict, but too much time was spent on it and it's highlighted as a key moment where everything could have changed.

i feel like this is a common misunderstanding of their conflict – or, at least it's a common take i disagree with. seeing it given so much focus was very disappointing.

after i had intentionally raised my expectations after being so impressed with part 2, i just feel kinda sad.

#canto vi part 3 #canto vi spoilers

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ishcliff · 16 days

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all of my previous post being said, i think the spirit of hareton and catherine 2 was captured extremely well, depicting a cycle that ends with them even when their own narrative parallels are conspiring against them. they also absolutely nailed catherine 2's personality in how she gets manipulated by hermann. it's very cool!

#canto vi spoilers #canto vi part 3

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ishcliff · 16 days

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so, my thoughts on part 3:

i think it was a good adaptation of specifically hareton and catherine 2... unfortunately for heathcliff and cathy, absolutely not.

i had gotten a lot of hopes with part 2 for the direction of catherine's character, but unfortunately she was completely defanged and does not resemble her book counterpart whatsoever. this is also true of heathcliff. part of the appeal to heathcliff and catherine as concepts are the ways they both are obsessed with and hate each other.

there is also an instance where catherine and heathcliff are just out of context quoting the book at each other, and one of the lines quite literally undermines the entire conflict of the canto:

the context of this line is book!heathcliff is blaming catherine for her own death after she tries to blame him. he calls catherine her own murderer and the source of his misery. there's no reason for him to say this when looking for catherine's affections from her ghost. i would've rather they not included the line at all than this.

and on the actual canto-specific plot structure point of things, many of the hooks set up in parts 1 and 2 extremely well just amount to completely nothing.

all they had to do for erlking heathcliff was show him a world where they're happy for him to be like "oh lol whoops." what? granted, that didn't solve the issue, but i hope why it's unsatisfying is clear.

the hook i have the most issues with is nelly. why in the hell would she have any reason to be a part of the main antagonist faction if the Entire Reason for her allying with them to begin with has never existed in any universe at this point? i cannot stand storylines like this.

overall, lots of cool moments. really cool analysis of heathcliff's character. until it wasn't. oh well. i'll probably talk more about it later when the dust has settled. i don't want to be overly negative so soon. but alas.

#not a debate invitation #canto vi spoilers #canto vi part 3 #making a separate tag because i feel the difference between 1&2 and 3 is so stark it might as well be different #feel free to blacklist it if you don't want negativity because i will be negative

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ishcliff · 17 days

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good night everyone....spoil me on anything cool i am begging you

#personal

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ishcliff · 17 days

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I don't want to start a war or anything but I disagree with the lobocorp comment you got about not playing the game. I love management games and hate deck builders, so lobocorp for me was an incredible game i want to replay for the third time (!) while LoR was easily the most miserable experience i've ever had with a videogame, period. I even had to cheat to finish it and every battle felt like a waste of time that was stopping me from knowing the story.

People's experiences with the games are going to be different and only you can judge wether you want to play it or not. If you want to finish it, go ahead and i hope you have fun!

hi anon!! i appreciate this, hehe. that person is a cool mutual of mine and i didn't take it any particular way other than some friendly banter/warning of what to expect. if it's any consolation!

but yes, i genuinely loved what i was playing so far. the only reason why i stopped and finished the story with a playthrough is because i was impatient to meet roland LOL i have always intended to go back and beat it. lobotomy corporation has some of my favorite writing of any game i've played, and seeing the rest of it fully in action will probably only make me love it more.

totally understand why ruina was so frustrating for you, though. it took me a long time to understand what exactly makes a good deck. there were a few points early on where i didn't even know how i won LOL different strokes for different folks is real!

thank you for the kindness 🤎

#asks #personal

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ishcliff · 17 days

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I wonder what will happen to heathcliff, he seems to be in so much pain that I wonder if he'll ever be same, so much love scorned and dehumanized, his threads fraying as his grasp on catherine gets stomped on, again and again. it's hard to imagine he gets back up from something like this but maybe its just my anticipation killing me from the inside as it usually does.

i really do hope it's a long enough, thoroughly earned process for him – earned as in "the sinners are likely his only real support he has right now, so they need to step up to the plate."

it would be interesting if there are some sort of permanent consequences to the distortion of some kind? or otherwise i think he needs a lot of major changes, depending on catherine's character direction. namely, he should probably get a new EGO at the very least... LMAO...

but...other things with his design too. the ring is a very important symbol both in his sprite and also in his little sinner icon. if catherine is as villainous as being implied, i don't know what they'll do with it!

I DUNNO. MY BRAIN HAS BEEN ON FIRE FOR A WEEK. i just want it to be good i don't care what it looks like HAHAHA

#lcb heathcliff #canto vi spoilers #canto vi speculation #limbus company speculation #asks

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ishcliff · 17 days

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Hey. Heathcliff being "The Heartbreaking" and Yi Sang having literally a giant hole going through his chest in Canto IV where his heart should be that only becomes visible to Dante after Dongbaek stabs him

AAAAUUUGGGGHH

HOLES LEFT BY DECEASED LOVED ONES TYING INTO THE SENSE OF SELF

#lcb heathcliff #lcb yi sang #asks #heathsang #this theming also ties with ishmael...they are such a trio #canto vi spoilers

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ishcliff · 17 days

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do you have any thoughts on Ish and Heath’s sinner symbols (or any of the sinners for that matter)?

i'm assuming you mean these?

i'll list my general thoughts in order!!

1) yi sang's torn/broken wings on the page were handled so, so well in his canto. one of the best moments in the game so far, to me. i remember thinking it was so cool it was so like his icon!

2) faust keeping an entire mind in a flask offers some excellent theories – does she wish to capture the mind in this way? is this more literal, implying her mind was made artificially? i dunno! the slow drops we've gotten implying the "council of fausts" theory is correct have been cool, especially in canto VI.

3) what's always stuck out to me about don's icon is that the horse is suggesting high-speed galloping, but it's bound to a pole like a merry-go-round and is actually stationary. the star behind it and dante's own association with stars are also Extremely interesting and i think people are probably on the right track whenever they theorize some sort of metanarrative connection between don and dante.

4) i've never really known what to make of ryōshū's! aside from the text being her base EGO name, i'm not really sure why there is a butterfly. i could go a few directions with it, following general butterfly symbolism: from fragility to change to "the butterfly effect", i feel like those could apply to ryōshū depending on how she's being written. she's the most mysterious sinner still, i think, so i really don't know.

5) the blend of the sun and the chain on meursault's icon has always stuck out to me as very well-constructed. i have always found it an interesting contrast between implied freedom in the form of the sun hanging in a sky, only to be dominated by a chain that presumably binds him, suggesting that the freedom is illusory. with the plot of the source material in mind, the seemingly incongruous association makes a lot of sense. his has always been one of my favorites.

6) hong lu's theming of dreams and illusions fixated on his off-color eye calls to mind what the eye itself can see. the resemblance to saturn feels pretty intentional, too, as in astrology saturn is typically associated restriction and discipline. the ring itself is often construed as a perpetual boundary that surrounds it. in addition, invocation of another planet can imply that he's ungrounded, or "a space cadet" as the saying goes.

7) the ring is specifically a wedding band, as wedding bands are designed to be uneven in the same way there. the stitching of the heather flowers with the stormy cliff behind it also reflect a similar "trapped" feeling that hong lu's image invokes. the outer shell implies love and warmth, while the inner world of the boundary is tumultuous, which is a perfect visual metaphor for hearhcliff's relationship with cathy and himself. there's also the recent theory/connection made that the cliff resembles a dog's muzzle, which is SO COOL to me.

8) ishmael's feels so straightforward to me now after canto V – ropes resemble strength of bond, knots resemble commitment, and the compass gives meaning and purpose to her steps. travel itself also suggests both curiosity and also the need to connect with the world around you. essentially, i think it shows a lot of ishmael's extremely earnest kindness hidden under an abrasive surface.

9) i think my only real thought about rodya's icon is that it's very cool that she has the heart tattoo and the way she murdered the tax collector is instead reflected in her own chest, showing how her mind often meanders more selfish/self-centered than not.

10) not a whole lot of thoughts aside from his egg being cracked with the mark of cain is very cool, and i can't wait to see more of that strange plot thread – especially with ayin's association with abel.

11) i have no idea what the words on the watch say, but the reveal that it's broken in canto VI is so cool!! with this in mind, perhaps it's kinda comparable to heathcliff's thing? an outer layer of sentiment with deceitful, war-minded thoughts inside? that would track with what i know about the odyssey, at least in my opinion!

12) i always have really liked the dichotomy of the little sleeve cuff around the bug arm. i think it really drives home one of the takes of the metamorphosis revolving around it being a story of disability – that it can happen to anyone, and no matter what, some people will view you as a perpetual burden. the dog tags, too, invoke this in particular with how veterans are essentially left to fend for themselves after service has been given.

so yeah!! those are my thoughts in general... they may be wrong but they are mine. thanks for asking!

#lcb all #canto vi spoilers #limbus company speculation #asks

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ishcliff · 17 days

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LMAO i've already played 20 days of it modded for optimization and to keep it from eating my entire memory and thoroughly enjoyed it, unfortunately. it is an inevitability. but thank you for trying to keep me sane

whenever i get around to completing lobcorp for myself, im making OP ishmael and heathcliff nuggets. they're getting everything. the rest are just gonna be the defaults but they are staying and im making them in-character.

#personal

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ishcliff · 18 days

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jealousy

#canto vi spoilers #lcb hindley #fanart

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ishcliff · 18 days

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So I just started the Heathcliff fight folks have been gushing about (which i looked up because I love spoilers) and it didn't take me long to make a realization: he looks like a slightly desaturated Genesis Rhapsodos from the FF 7 game series (a boy known for being both very, very pretty and very, very trash). rip to everyone who suddenly likes that aesthetic, my condolences are with them

CONFESSION....I HAVE NEVER PLAYED FF7 IN MY LIFE. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

BUT AFTER A QUICK GOOGLE??

YEAH. KINDA UNCANNY. DMC2 DANTE EAT YOUR HEART OUT

#asks #lcb heathcliff #canto vi spoilers

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ishcliff · 18 days

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OH and, speaking of Aseah's appearance, taking in count the cause of Hindley's distortion and the paralels between our Heathcliff & Hareton and then mirror Heathcliff with book!Heathcliff, it's very ironic that Aseah also debuts in this part, since Aseah's (pressumed) motif novel When The Buckwheat Blooms is actually about a long separated father and son reuniting by sheer chance and bonding as the father regrets the love that got away from his hands

jesus FUCKING christ

i meant it when i said you need to become a dedicated historian of the guinhoe. SERIOUSLY...MAKE A NEOCITIES ABOUT THEM. I'M DEAD SERIOUS.

#limbus company meta #lcb aseah #lcb hindley #asks #canto vi spoilers #go follow my bestie they are a genius

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ishcliff · 18 days

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whenever i get around to completing lobcorp for myself, im making OP ishmael and heathcliff nuggets. they're getting everything. the rest are just gonna be the defaults but they are staying and im making them in-character.

#personal

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