Certain b shipper on here when they get called out for sexualizing kids and don’t know how to self reflect so they just misuse the term gaslighting and block instead😭😭 the born sexy yesterday trope requires adult characters, a female character that is infantilized and sexualized, and a male character who takes advantage of that. Mileven are children and it cannot apply to them. Also, El might be disabled and disadvantaged, but Mike never took advantage of that. Saying that “I know mileven can’t be endgame because they’re bsy” just shows that dgaf and don’t have a genuine concern if a harmful trope is used, you just want to justify your hatred for mileven, and you’re willing to sexualize kids to do it😭😭 absolute bonkers I tell you

shut up please just stop reblogging posts lmao? you’re a three year old so i guess it makes sense but if you interact with more bylers, you’ll get more byler content. block the tag. it’s simple.

The byler posts I respond to are ones I stumble across in the mileven tag, dumbass😭 I’ll break down an anti mileven post if I feel like it, to show other milevens who stumble across it in the MILEVEN TAG that there are other ways to perceive the show, when all that negativity these people have around your ship gets hard to see through. And it’s also just harmless like?? If I annoy you that bad maybe stop stalking my page

“Mike never does anything to show he loves El” No, you just watched the show with an insane bias and your mind filtered out all the stuff you didn't like (anytime Eleven is on screen)

ngl these people raise my blood pressure lmao thanks for the blocklist tho

Fjghhghj you’re so right, and no problem.

I’m gonna try to help by elaborating my interpretation of Mikes monologue as a Mileven who thinks it makes sense.

Alright so it’s normal to be intimidated by saying ily for the first time, it’s super vulnerable and fragile, so that’s part of it. I think the most dominating factor, is that it would be even more hurtful to lose her if he opened up about his love for her because of the vulnerability, like he said in the monologue. The reason he thinks he’s gonna lose her is partly his insecurities that he talked about in the van, how he’s not good enough for her and he’s “just a nerd” and that he can’t believe that she would need him, and partly because of the affect all the other times he’s lost her had on him(her fake death, her leaving to face demodogs right after she came back, her moving, etc…)

Now I’m gonna respond to the next paragraph lol

Most of the general audience knew Mike loved El before he said it to her, especially cause he said it last season, they just wondered what the explanation was. El was very insecure because of all the shit she went through on top of being a teenage girl, and she needed reassurance in the relationship, and that’s completely normal and it doesn’t mean Mikes love isn’t enough or that it isn’t real. That might clash with “show don’t tell” but many people need verbal reassurance and that’s just normal and realistic.

The reason we are shown their relationship obstacles and navigating their insecurities in relationships is because it’s realistic and they’re one of the main relationships in the show so they get a storyline and it can’t all be lovey dovey dance on roses cause nobodies watching that. The audience knows for the most part that the ships love each other, but there’s no telling if the characters know that they’re loved back, and it’s not explored cause they did that with mileven, and they don’t wanna give some of these ships a storyline with enough time for that. Do you think Lucas knows Max loves him? Cause I really don’t. That doesn’t diminish their love at all though.

At the end here you say that Mike was insecure about the relationship in that van scene, when if you look at that from another lense, and see it as an insecurity in himself, his explanation in the monologue makes more sense. Milevens s4 arc might not make sense to you and idk if my response here changed that or gave you another perspective, but this is my explanation for why I think it makes perfect sense for these characters.

I really just don't understand WHY they had to give Mike the whole "can't say he loves El" problem if it wasn't to show that he doesn't actually love her in that way. Like I can't wrap my head around why they would write that storyline at all if Mike is actually in love with El. I just don't see the point in it. Because if they did all of that and caused all that drama just to be like "yeah forget all of that, he actually does love her" like...that is so fucking pointless bro.

Because if he truly loves her...then there should be no need for dramatics. We as the audience should be able to tell he loves her without him having to say it. And EL should be able to tell that he loves her without him having to say it. None of us should NEED him to say it to know that he's in love with her if he is genuinely in love with her. Because literally none of the other couples on the show need to say or hear "I love you" for us to know and for them to know they love each other. So why should Mike and El need it and why should they need this whole dramatic love confession for everyone to know their love is genuine and real?? They are the only other couple besides Stancy to have made such a big deal about verbally confirming their love and it goes directly against the "show don't tell" thing the Duffers have been setting up since season one with not just the couples, but with EVERYTHING.

This whole storyline with Midleven and Mike not saying "I love you" in s4 honestly would just feel unnecessary and dramatic if it turns out that Mike actually is in love with El. Like you put them and us through all of that for...what exactly?? To prove something to us that you should have proved to us about one season ago and without all the theatrics??

They really could have skipped all the unnecessary "Mike can't say ily" drama and had just given us real and intimate and beautiful Midleven moments as a couple if Midleven is actually an "in love endgame couple." But they didn't. They decided to give Mike the issue of not being able to tell El he loves her. They purposefully made him start to doubt their relationship in the van scene. They consciously made these writing decisions and none of those decisions make sense IF Mike is in love with El. Like it's just the truth 🤷‍♀️

Right I’m feeling defensive and I’m gonna need to break this down cause😭…

If anybody said Mike had an “El sense”, it wasn’t because he heard her voice, but because of the s2 ep2 scene where he looks towards her when she visits him in void, even though she doesn’t appear in front of him he senses her presence, not just her voice.

Anyone who says Mike hates Will is either kidding or dumb. Mike puts El first a lot, and milevens sometimes use this as a gag when bylers say he doesn’t care about her, but that’s it.

Is “the canon proof that Mike wasn’t being truthful in his monologue” in the room with us right now?

Of course Will and Els feelings for Mike aren’t the same, they’re different people with different connections to him.. But they do have a lot in common. They both need love and support to fight, and for both of them, Mike is often that love. Wills speech applied to El a bit too in the sense that Mikes love proved to be vital for El to find the last strength to stop vecna for now.

Mike and El not loving and caring about each other is your interpretation of the show, it’s not canon.

I don’t think the s3 elmax/mileven situation is that simple and so “either Max is a spawn of satan and used El or she was right about absolutely everything”.. I think Max had great intentions, but it was wrong of her to roll her eyes when the boys suggested El shouldn’t fight alone, and invalidating Mike when he was worried about someone he loves facing a giant flesh eating monster. Els only human.

This is gonna sound crazy but maybe.. El hadn’t gathered the strength to fight until after Mike had finished his speech because from a writers pov his speech would be interrupted before it was done😱😱 and again, is the canon proof that the speech didn’t impact her ability to fight back in the room with us rn?

The one about his parents is the only valid point made by op, that’s just a hc😭😭

No one is saying El wants to be viewed as only a superhero, but it’s not as degrading and dehumanizing as y’all make it out to be. Mike said “I love you with you powers, I love you without your powers” meaning that canonically him thinking of her as a superhero isnt interchangeable with her powers. I think it’s about what she chooses to do with them, and the heroic choices she makes and her selflessness and her heart. If you saw all the quality and personhood El has, you would understand.

Mikes love for El was one of the things that saved the world, yes. Just because things are still bad and vecna isn’t defeated doesn’t mean that they didn’t save the world. If El dies it’s over and he would end the world, and that was seconds away from happening but El found strength and saved herself and the world by doing that🤷‍♀️

El was patiently waiting for Mike to say he loves her back to her face, so why she be upset when he did it when she really needed it and explained why he struggled with it in the first place? El just saw her best friend die and had the fight of her life and she’s not ready to talk to anyone after that trauma, not even her brothers, and you think the reason she’s not talking to Mike is that he said ily? Please😭

I get that it’s annoying to be told u ignore canon, but ermmm… most of the shots you tried to fire here missed😭

Yeah I hate when we get told we ignore canon by Midlevens because they ignore canon more than we do.

Like these are the people who still believe Mike has an "El sense" even though it was obvious he just heard her voice coming through the walkie. They showed us that happening literally an ep or two before that. They also still think Mike hates Will even though Mike poured his heart out to Will in Lenora and said Hawkins wasn't the same without him and he wanted them to be best friends again and the first two seasons had Mike worrying over Will nonstop. They also think Mike was 100% truthful in his monologue even though there is canon proof that tells us otherwise. They think Will's feelings also apply to El even though we have canon proof that says otherwise. They also think Mike and El only love and care about each other even though that is obviously not true if you have ever watched more than the corny Midleven scenepacks on YouTube. They say Max corrupted El in s3 and used her for her powers when that is just canonically not true. They believe Mike's monologue helped El just because of that script when canonically, in the SHOW, El wasn't moving an INCH until she looked over at Max and she didn't use Mike's monologue as motivation to bring Max back (she used her memories with Max). They still say Mike couldn't say he loves El because of his parents loveless marriage when the canon explanation from Mike himself was he was scared El would leave him if he said he loved her. They still say El wants to be viewed as a superhero despite the canon evidence that tells you she does not want to be viewed that way. They say Mike's love for El "saved the world" even though Hawkins is quite literally in shambles and the apocalypse is about to start. They also think Midleven is okay after the monologue even though it's confirmed they have barely spoken to each other.

I could go on and on and on and on, but I'll stop it here because this post would be too long lol.

Yeah I just hate when I get told I ignore canon by someone who fully believes Mike can sense El in the void and his monologue was genuine and his love for her helped "save the world" lmao.

I just wanted to know what’s your opinion on Elmike (platonic El and Mike)? I’ll be honest when I say Mileven is a ship that does make me a bit uncomfortable but I do like the idea of Mike and El loving each other, even if it’s not romantic. I think it’s always been obvious that these two love and care about each other a lot, but for me I like to think of it more as platonic/even familial. Thinking of these two as best friends just give me so much joy because I think the idea is so cute. Like, them just hanging out and listening to and singing along to catchy songs in El’s room with the rest of the party is such an appealing idea to me. Anyways, what do you think of them being just friends?

(Ty if you do answer btw, I hope you have a nice day :D)

Hey, thank you for this question anon, and sorry I reply so late. I hope you have a great day too.

I think that romantic mileven harbors all the qualities of platonic mileven, so I don’t really see the appeal? Their friendship is a part of their relationship, and I don’t think the romantic aspect of it takes away from the friendship.

When I perceive the relationship the way I do, genuine, romantic and reciprocal, i dont think it’s lacking anything.

When people say mileven makes them uncomfortable, it typically comes from a place of undermining El and her ability to make her own choices, so that does bug me the wrong way. And I think it’s just as weird to say that their dynamic is familial when they’ve been dating for like 2 years😭

Looking at the Mileven tag it’s obviously dominated by bylers, and their takes are so bothersome because they can’t even imagine that Els long time boyfriend who was with her at her worst and said he loves her 10 times.. actually loves her?? Like why won’t you even acknowledge it a real possibility. You dislike the idea so much that you refuse to acknowledge their character growth, because they cant be thriving while they’re with each other, and their breakup needs to be the perfect solution to all their problems.. and I just gotta wonder why you want to watch the show like this… you want byler endgame to be the perfect ending so bad that you center and adjust the other characters and stories to that narrative in your interpretation. The byler lense is blinding y’all from seeing especially El and her personhood and growth. All I’m saying is El being loved by her long time boyfriend shouldn’t be such a foreign and awful concept to you.

Mike said “I love you with your powers, I love you without your powers, I love you for exactly who you are”… that’s literally the exact same point the other monologue made, but that’s not enough for y’all because you expect a 14 year old to have the vocabulary of a grown man😭😭 bye

What Mike should have said when El was scared he didn't love her without her powers

What Mike said instead 😭

Mike needs to take some lessons from Alec.

In today's episode of incredibly stupid Mileven takes by Byler shippers, someone wrote a whole-ass essay claiming that Mike only liked El because she filled a void in him that he had after Nancy grew up and started ignoring him.

Just when I thought that I had seen every bad take out there.

(Gee, it's not as if Mike was outwardly horrified by the thought of El being his sister or anything -_-)

Saying El was forcing him into a forehead touch here?? He was having an emotional moment with his girlfriend.. they weren’t sure when they were going to see each other again. And you think she was FORCING him into being close with her?? Never speak about El again, if you think this of her.

The misinterpretation of mileven will be studied in schools one day

Y’all are getting an essay (or two) later on Mike & El that I’ve had in the works for a while now because there’s no way in hell people are misinterpreting that relationship to the point of accusing of those children of SA. So it’s either antis are assholes — likely — or they’re just being intentionally obtuse and ignorant — even likelier.

THE STAGES OF SAYING “I LOVE YOU.” - INSP

Mileven are 14 years old from a show watched by people of all ages, especially teenagers, with a fan base containing mostly minors, and y’all really think it’s appropriate to call our fandom names like m*sterbations? milkyt*t? malnourished f*reskin? malnourished fallopian tube? It’s seriously fucking weird y’all are such fucking freaks for this.. and don’t even get me started on the one that called us mein kampf shippers…..

wouldnt mike breaking up with el after promising her his love make him even more of an asshole? how is the solution to the hurt his obliviousness sometimes causes.. to end the relationship with the one he loves? learning that he needs to be more aware of the people he cares about to properly help them is the lesson that would actually take him a long way... and dont even get me started on El.... this girl decided that the boy that has been with her for years, who she loves, that if he didnt meet her standards, she didnt need him?? at a time where she was bullied and excluded, without her friends, with a new family after her one parent died, on her way to the literal hell that was nina project that she slayed despite all that?? but when she forgives him and accepts him after he finds her, and explains to her why he was the way he was, and SHE decides that he is reasonable and forgivable and makes up with him...... thats not “independent girlboss” enough and erases everything her character has shown about independence? okay. 

Hoping and praying that milkvan breaks up by the end of s5 episode 1 at the LATEST bc I desperately need to see Mike and El get the entire season to have arcs independent from each other and Mike can finally get his head out of his ass while El finally gets to spend a whole season as an independent girlboss Duffers PLEASE

shipping a girl with the boy who embraced, helped and believed her when no else would, at her very worst, believed in her even after it looked like she lied about his bsf being dead, talked to her every night for a year after she sacrificed herself for him, treasured her the same when they reunited, began dating and had a relatively ordinary teen relationship until her life was in danger again again, and then they had to throw their immaturities aside because one of them was in danger, and they fully acted like a couple again, then she moved away and kept in touch, but insecurities got the better of them so she glamorized the truth in her letters, and that made him think he wasnt enough for her, and losing her so many times scarred him and convinced him it was only a matter of time before he’d lose her for good, so he couldnt say ily because he couldnt imagine how much that would make it hurt when it already hurt so much without that vulnerability, but when she was endangered and he had to watch her leave again, he realized keeping himself sheilded wasnt worth it, it caused more harm to the both of them than good, and with a help of a friend, he found the courage to tell her when she needed it most, 9 times.... versus a boy who has unrequited feelings for his best friend, and the dude from the previous ship who has never showed even slight romantic interest in him, not to mention his girlfriend is now the other boys sister....... like dont even try playing this game

okay but like. if you think about it, milkvan is way more of a crackship than byler is-

like, shipping a girl that spent her entire life isolated in a lab with a boy who just wanted to help her and find his friend, versus shipping two boys that have been best friends since kindergarten and have a completely different relationship dynamic than any of their friends.

She repeatedly chose him.. every time she grows as a person and finds new ways to express her identity, she goes back to Mike. That is fully her decision. The abuse she faced does not mean that she has to repress her feelings while learning about love and relationships. She is 14 years old and has known Mike for 2-3 years. She is extremely bright and protective of herself as well. This season for them especially was great because El showed that no matter how much she loves Mike, she won’t go on with him if he doesn’t give her the same. And she fought her ass of at the Nina project right after that like… and then Mike showed and told her, that he feels the same, and why he struggled to say it, and she believed him as she should. Boom. If you still think she can’t decide whether she should date a normal kind kid her age, you simply just question her judgment and ignore her development like….

Eleven had a boyfriend before she knew that she was allowed to have her own likes and interests

And people still think that she’s in a healthy relationship

… before s4, y’all said that Mike and El were broken up for good at the end of s3 and that Mike realized he was gay for Will… and when vol1 came out, y’all swore mileven was over for good and there wouldn’t be more to it.. and now that vol2 is here, and Mike explained that the reason he struggled to say it wasn’t because he didn’t mean it, but because with the way El described her life he didn’t think he was good enough for her, “just some random nerd”, it was just an innocent miscommunication, they’re 14 years old after all… and after years of being proven wrong yet again, you never once even considered that you could be… wrong? About where the show is headed, and the characters especially.. like maybe all this toxicity and lack of substance in mileven is something y’all created through your mutual confirmation bias? Idk… and yalls reasonings for why they aren’t in love are so strange because how else could you expect them to act with everything they’ve gone through? When you’re analyzing a relationship wanting to find faults, you’re obviously gonna find a way to find them…

Something I think much of the GA and milkvans desperately needs to understand is that “I love you,” are just words. They’re just words. They have no bearing on a relationship, at their core- they aren’t magic. I could walk up to a random stranger I’ve never met before and tell them “I love you.” I could tell them mike’s entire s4 monologue! “I love you,” isn’t some magic phrase that you can only say if you truly love someone. And abusers frequently will use “I love you,” as an excuse for their actions (ie “I’m hurting you because I love you so much, it’s for your own good,” which is a rhetoric that we see from Brenner in ST, especially during his S4 argument with her where he talks about how he loved her and all the kids, including Henry, and that’s why he did what he did).

It doesn’t matter if someone says they love you. It literally doesn’t matter. What matters is how they treat you. What matters is how they show you that they love you, what matters is them treating you with respect, and dignity, and kindness- that’s love.

So why is El so focused on wanting Mike to say he loves her? A.) because he doesn’t do anything to SHOW that he does so she’s relying on him to TELL her that he does b.) because her perception of romantic love is based on romance movies, where “I love you,” is some magical phrase

Brenner tells El that he loves her + the other children. But he never shows it. He treats them horribly and abusively, and then claims it’s for their own good, claims it’s because he loves them. El’s mother never tells El that she loves her. She can’t. But she showed it. She showed it when she broke into the lab, trying to get El back. She showed it when she had a whole bedroom ready for her. She showed it when she showed El her memories. She didn’t need to tell El that she loved her- by the end of their interactions, El knew. El knew that her mother loved her.

And also I’m not implying at all that Brenner feels romantically towards El, just to be clear- I’m using “love” as a whole for both romantic and platonic love because brenners “I love you which is why I hurt you” rhetoric is rhetoric that can apply both to romantic and platonic/familial love.

When Mike finally tells El that he loves her, it doesn’t matter. They’re just words. He hasn’t shown that he loves her, and at this point, El is past seeing love solely through the lens of romance movies, and has a more robust understanding of both platonic and romantic love. Especially since the Mike monologue happens after Brenner tells her her loves her/all the kids. I think that was a turning point for El starting to realize that “I love you,” are just words, and what REALLY matters is how you show people that you love them. And I think she’s going to start to notice Mike and Will showing that they love eachother before they get together.

Like do people really think that the duffers are going to buy into the bs fairytale stereotype lie trope that “I love you,” is some magic phrase?? Because it’s literally not!! It’s not a magic phrase and the duffers know damn well that it isn’t!! It’s not any different than any other words!! It doesn’t fix Mike and el’s relationship. Mike didn’t love El when he couldn’t say it, and he didn’t love El when he could say it. Because love isn’t defined by telling someone you love them, it’s defined by showing it. If the only point of a relationship/being in love was to tell someone that you love them, then love would be much simpler, and also much less meaningful. You could just grab any two people who hate eachother and are incompatible in every way but were willing to say the words and slap them together, and that would be them “being in love,” if we subscribe to the idea that saying the words = being in love/loving someone. The only reason those words have value is because we assign them value- we associate them with things like being good to eachtoher, spending time with eachother, treating eachother with respect and kindness and dignity, and having an interest in eachother’s hobbies, etc. But when none of those factors are present to be associated with the words, the words become meaningless, just like they are for Mike and El.

When Mike says he loves El, what does that mean? It doesn’t mean a goddamn thing! He can’t even list anything he LIKES about El outside of her superpowers! El has these wonderful personality traits and unique interests of her own, but Mike can’t even name ONE of them. Not even one!!! Because it’s empty!! The words are empty, they don’t MEAN anything because Mike and El have never been in love, so there’s no feeling or experiences to associate with the words!!! Just like how it doesn’t mean anything when Brenner says it- because he never showed it to any of those kids!! These no loving memories to associate with him when he says it!! Just like how Mike doesn’t have any loving memories of El to bring up during his monologue, hence why he brings up shit like the Benny’s burgers t shirts. There is nothing to associate with those words.

Im going to make a big post at some point about the use of “I love you,” in ST but there’s some thoughts for rn!!