i do think the overall frustration with slur discourse, is mainly the concept of being morally obligated to reclaim slurs or otherwise out yourself as secretly privileged. iv'e kind of grown pass the whole "i can't see people using the word queer to describe the lgbt community, because queer means weird!" phase, like who gives a shit, it's fine. but it's mainly is just the issue of demanding a sense of like. i don't know the word. resilience? from a community of people who have been notoriously traumatized from their upbringing. being able to call yourself a faggot as a sense of pride should be seen as a personal decision that takes alot of thinking of your identity and place in the world , not something that is mandatory for anyone who wants to be gay and exist.

I'm going to preface this post with that this is a pretty niche intracommunity issue, but it's been bugging me a while.

The right to define yourself as a queer person includes not only the right to claim labels that feel correct, but the right to reject labels that don't fit. That's a huge part of the whole point. However, some people seem to feel like being queer just means that we've made some different identity boxes to sort people into, and that sorting yourself wrongly means you need correction.

I, personally, am a GNC man. I wear skirts because they're comfy and trap heat in winter and long hair because I'm extremely vain about my hair. Someone once spent the better part of three hours arguing that I need to "at least" identify as a nonbinary man. Which is... not how anything works? I've identified as nonbinary in the past, but eventually realized that just wasn't correct for me, and moved into identifying as a binary man. I strongly support nonbinary people, but I don't happen to be nonbinary in any way. More commonly, people will decide that I'm "fem" or "femme", which... also not really? Those are loaded community words and I don't happen to identify with them. I'm GNC. That's not the same thing.

I also see this happen a lot with sexuality. It's one thing to look at someone going "I'm straight but sometimes... I wonder..." and introduce them to the incredible variety of mspec identities to see if anything strikes a chord. It's entirely another for someone to go "I'm pansexual." and some dick to roll up and start telling them they're biphobic for not saying they're bisexual, or for someone saying "I'm bisexual, and I'm not attracted to women." to have people telling them that they're not really bisexual. "Two or more" does not necessarily have to include both binary genders, or either of them.

Deciding someone else's personal labels based on what you think they should identify as is just plain rude, and insisting on them after they've objected is even more rude. Don't do it.

not proship or antiship but a secret third thing (thinking it's weird that complex and nuanced discussions have been flattened into fandom discourse)

hi! i really appreciate your “queer as a slur” post, great points laid out well. my only criticism is that you state in the very beginning that the “other side” of the debate, the people who call “queer” a slur, think that everyone should stop saying the word. that’s a misrepresentation of that side, and it’s a misrepresentation that gets the other side really mad at us. generally, the people who are saying queer is a slur DO NOT THINK that no one else should be allowed to say it, we just think it should be acknowledged as such.

That's an incredibly fair point. To some degree, I was choosing to present the two main sides of the discourse in the way that they seem to be commonly interpreted (which does wind up exaggerated as best), but I can definitely understand frustration at that approach.

In the end, it really is about personal choice, and it's ignoring that aspect that seems to get people the most riled up. It's much easier to exaggerate the opinions of someone you disagree with than to address what's actually being said, but that doesn't help anyone.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll be sure to be more careful with my presentation of things going forward.

Let’s get some nuance on “Queer”

Saying there’s been a lot of vigorous debate about the use of the word “queer” is a massive understatement. There are two major sides that I’ve seen. One says that “queer” is a liberating term, one that is more inclusive than other available terms, and which can unite the community. The other side says that “queer” is a slur, and shouldn’t be used as a result, regardless of if individuals are comfortable with it.

As with so much internet discourse, there’s a lot of nuance that gets lost in the argument, and as a result, both sides are kind of in the wrong.

“Queer” is a broad term that can act as an umbrella for many, many identities, and as a result it can be incredibly useful. It’s also a very loaded term in many regions that is actively being used to harm members of the community. It’s hard to see a word as positive when you’ve spent your whole life having it used against you by people who want you and everyone like you gone.

There are a lot of places (mostly urban and liberal) where the word “queer” has been reclaimed, and is worn with pride. There’s the well-known slogan from many decades ago: “We’re here, we’re queer, get used to it!” There is power in reclaiming the term and making it our own. The problem is that not all of us can do that.

There’s a simple solution to this whole debate that rests on a foundation that the community has already built: Don’t call people things they don’t want to be called. If someone says not to call them “queer”, don’t fucking call them that. It’s just like when someone tells your their pronouns. You use their pronouns, and you don’t use other pronouns to refer to them. It’s that simple.

The contentious part is that we need to apply this to the community as a whole as well. There are clearly a substantial number of members of the community who aren’t comfortable with being labeled “queer”, because if there wasn’t we wouldn’t be dealing with this discourse. By insisting on calling it “the queer community”, you are actively choosing to force that label onto those people. Let me say this again in clear words: When you say “the queer community” you are forcing an unwanted label onto members of the community you claim to support. If you wouldn’t deadname a trans person, you shouldn’t force “queer” onto people who don’t want it.

And don’t start with me about the argument that “queer is a slur” was started by TERFs. The painful history of the word goes back far longer than that, and while TERFs might have chosen to weaponize that painful history to divide the community, they aren’t the only ones talking about it. Just because someone isn’t comfortable with a label you like doesn’t mean they’re parroting bigots. It just means they aren’t comfortable with the label.

Though if you are just parroting “queer is a slur” without considering the history, maybe it’s worth examining that. The problem isn’t that “queer” is a slur. It’s that it’s actively used to hurt people, and I would hope we can all agree that’s a bad thing. If someone actively chooses to call themself “queer”, that is their choice to make, and you should support them. The other side to “don’t call people things they don’t want to be called” is “call people the things they do want to be called”.

So to summarize: The solution to all of this discourse is to stop calling people things they don’t want to be called, and that includes trying to apply the label to the community as a whole. If it’s a term that resonates with you and you want to use it, go for it! There’s power in that, and no one should deny you that satisfaction. Just remember that it’s a label for you, not for everyone.

Obligatory Intro Post

Hi. You can call me Xan.

I'm here to try jamming some nuance into y'all's discourse.

If you disagree with something I say, ask box is open, anon is turned off. If you've got something to say to me, you can say it with your whole chest, or keep it to yourself.

Some stuff about me so you know what kind of person you're dealing with:

1) I’ve got a low tolerance for bullshit. If you wanna say something, say it plainly and clearly. I’m not gonna beat around the bush, and neither should you. If you can’t say things plainly and clearly, step back and think before you post.

2) Everyone starts on a level playing field. I don’t give respect freely, but I’ll extend basic courtesy unless you show me you can’t do the same. If I’m talking with you, I’m going to treat you like a reasonable human being capable of basic logic unless you show me you can’t. No one gets special treatment, no matter who you are.

3) The block button exists for a reason. You’ve got enough of a problem with me that you never wanna see my takes again? Go ahead and block me. It’s a lot easier than trying to start something. On the other side, if you prove to me that you can’t show basic courtesy, I’ll give you one chance to sort yourself out. If you can’t or won’t, I’m happy to block you. This is my sandbox, and you’ll play nice when you’re in it.

4) I’ve got no tolerance for hatred. If you’re a TERF, Nazi, racist, bigot, or otherwise a shitty person, you should turn around and leave now. If you start something with me and I find out you’re in one of those categories, it’s straight to getting blocked. The only good fascist is a very dead fascist.

5) I’ve got better things to do with my time. I’ll be keeping an eye on this blog pretty regularly, but I’m not gonna be super active. Surrounding yourself in constant discourse is bad for you, and I’m not going to let myself get trapped in that. I’ve also got plenty of patience, so I’m willing to wait to respond until I can give a clear-headed response, and I’ve got no problems waiting for a response if you need time to do so, including if you need time to cool off or figure out how you want to word things. I’d rather have a slow response that’s well thought out than a shitty response immediately.

6) Don’t respond to something I don’t say. If you’ve got a problem with something I say, I’m open to feedback as long as you’re not an asshole about it. But if you try twisting my words around into something I didn’t say, we’re gonna have problems. If you can’t respond to what I’ve said, rather than what you want me to have said, you shouldn’t say anything at all.

7) I don’t argue to win. Discourse at its best is each side presenting their points and their thoughts behind them, and legitimately considering the merits of others’ points. It’s about being better than you were yesterday, not coming out on top or proving people wrong. I’m open to changing my mind on things if someone can convince me that I should. If you can’t approach things with that same openness, don’t even start with me.

Beyond all that, all you need to know is that I’m an adult and I’ve got strong opinions. Expect to see a lot of them here.