the crucial mistake i think people make is looking at farcille as being in an already committed relationship before the story begins. the feelings are there but neither of those girls is equipped to confront those feelings during their dungeon exploring days. falin is too used to people being freaked out by her to imagine anyone would be romantically interested in her unless they spell it out explicitly (this is why she seriously considered toshiro's proposal,according to the adventurer's bible. she wasn't attracted to him but thought he might be the only person who'd ever feel that way about her). and marcille does not do this if she fully acknowledged how much falin has grown up at this point in time she would actually snap for real.

Well I woke up at fucking five eighteen am so I might as well make this post while I have time.

I enjoy the feminist, queer-normative settings that fandom (at least by surface level appearances) tries to make, but with Dungeon Meshi I'm seeing people take that shallow fun fandom interpretation and then.... ignore the actual setting?

Like hetero marriage with the intention to produce offspring is a big deal here. My understanding is that Falin and Laios were both engaged as children. Chilchuck and his wife had two of their daughters before they were considered adults. In Laios's party pre-canon there was a female character there only looking for a husband, at least to Chilchuck's understanding and he's pretty decent at figuring out human motivations.

Falin is 23, tall-man maturity is 16 and life expectancy in 60. If she wasn't an adventurer (from what I can tell, it's a more disreputable field than other careers) who cares more about dungeons and her brother than societal norms, she would probably be expected to have a husband already.

People give Toshiro so much grief for proposing to her out of nowhere, and I've only finished volume nine of the manga so I don't know if this gets more detailed later, but like, they had been in the same party for a few years at this point? Like yeah, Toshiro doesn't know her as well as Marcille and Laios do, but it's clear he was trying to get to know her better. One of his frustrations with Laios is that Laios kept crashing his attempted dates with Falin!

Here's the thing, all these characters are beautifully flawed as fuck. But the disproportionate hate I've seen towards Toshiro is bad and probably racist. Toshiro is not just fantasy-Japanese, he's also nobility and racially marked as Other on the island. As such, he has so many rules for etiquette/manners/propriety he's operating under. And we have seen that he is rather quiet and withdrawn (he didn't correct anyone about what his name is, when he told his party thank you they started crying, he regrets that he didn't tell Falin how he felt even though he did propose to her suggesting that his proposal was more formal (as befitting someone of his class!!!) than emotional). You know who else is quiet? Falin. She doesn't give Toshiro an answer to his proposal, doesn't seem to talk about it with others, was ostracized in her hometown and at magic school and when Marcille took an interest in her work she decided to just show Marcille the dungeon with minimal explanation as she went, after her first resurrection Laios makes her promise not to sacrifice herself again but he doesn't say "sacrifice" he says "don't do that again" and doesn't catch her quiet protestations that she doesn't know what she did, and she promises anyways! Heck, one of the ways we know she is just as into all of this as her brother is how animated she gets when she finds out they've been eating monsters.

I'm not familiar with Japanese current and historical cultural norms and fantasy tropes. I am sure there's nuance to Toshiro's characters that I'm unaware of. But I don't think we should take Chilchuck's and Mickbell's commentary of his proposal being out of nowhere as if that's the objective truth, and not also informed by their halfling (and presumably commoner) cultural background. Like, fuck, iconic romantic lead of English literature Mr. Darcy has a lot in common with Toshiro, and at least when the latter first proposed there was no open animosity between him and the object of his affections!

Do I ship Toshiro/Falin? No, not particularly. But for a fandom that is very defensive of the autistic characters (and rightly so) I see not a lot of grace being extended to someone whose communication issues are wrapped up in Following The Rules, Not Improvising, and Staying Quiet About Your Feelings.

Anyways, my second issue with people ignoring the heteronormative aspect of the setting is people outright saying that Marcille is motivated mainly by her romantic interest in Falin. Which. I love subtext and shipping but not at the cost of the actual text! Not that sapphic love is simple, but some of the takes I've seen (and I'm talking about longer, intentional analysis, not memes) ignore the nuances we see play out on the page and how Marcille's feelings are a somewhat complicated tangle that she seems to ignore with a philosophy of "it's fine and if it isn't then I will make it fine!" Like, I ship Marcille/Falin more than any other pairing in this show, but I feel that romantic interpretations should enrich and interweave and support the other feelings that are there (fear of others dying before her, first friend, the way after Falin's first resurrection Marcille was like "oh I don't care how you've grown you're still the same little kid to me" because change is scary and time brings death and also by elven standards Marcille isn't an adult yet either). Not bulldoze and flatten the text to use generic romantic interpretations instead.

Dungeon Meshi has such beautiful and thoughtful worldbuilding. There's both fantasy racism informed by biological distinctions, and real-world racism informed by differences in appearances and culture. There's complex ecosystems both in the plants and animals and in the human (and demihuman) societies. The backgrounds of every character inform their choices. Different cultural groups have different beauty standards, and their ages (and gender presentation? not sure how much of that has been intentional and how much has been a mistranslation) are misinterpreted by people not in their group (Namari (who has presumably been around tall-men her whole life unlike Senshi who didn't know halflings were their own thing) referring to Falin, someone she has known for quite a while now, as being a teenager to forties).

Again I'm only on volume 9, but I've been told that there is a canon lesbian in the manga. And without knowing who she is, I feel like she's the exception that proves the rule? Dungeon Meshi was released 2014–2023. I'm arguing that the heteronormativity in this world is intentional, not incidental. Dungeon Meshi has a lot to say about family, including adoptive family (Kaka and Kiki, Kabru, Senshi, Thistle) and so far all the adoptive parents have either been in hetero relationships or single. I think the absence of queer relationships is intentional, and while I'm all for queering the text I am more interested in what that queerness looks like in a heteronormative setting that values marriage and children, rather than just ignoring the setting so that queerness itself is not a source of conflict.