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maureen-doolittle · 1 year

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Are the Jedi a cult?

So my wife and I were talking about Star Wars while eating dinner, and we landed on the topic of the Jedi. I mentioned my absolute hatred of the Jedi approach to child-raising. Like, oh, you want your group members to deny attachments? I know, give them all disorganized and disrupted attachments to primary caregivers!

And then a THOUGHT hit me: are the Jedi a cult? Specifically, to what degree do their beliefs and actions resonate with Steven Hassan’s BITE Model of Authoritarian Control? I pulled it up and my wife immediately said, “Wow, that would do NUMBERS on Tumblr. Please help prove my wife right because she’s awesome.

For the unaware, BITE is an acronym that stands for Behavior, Information, Thought, and Emotion. It refers to four different types of control that organizations can have over their members. The higher a given organization scores, the more cult-like that organization is likely to be. (Disclaimer: this post is exclusively for shitposting reasons and I am extremely not a mental health or sociology expert.)

Behavior Control

Regulate individual’s physical reality - unclear?

Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates - literally yes that’s the whole thing that PROMPTED this post

When, how and with whom the member has sex - yep, celibacy rules!

Control types of clothing and hairstyles - yes, unless you’re mace windu

Regulate diet – food and drink, hunger and/or fasting - no, not that i know of

Manipulation and deprivation of sleep - nope

Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence - i am absolutely not going to research the star wars economy for this shitpost. we’re leaving it at “unclear.”

Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time - lol do the jedi get vacation? like, at all?

Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet - can you imagine if the jedi had twitter? god, anakin would be such a pain in the ass about it. anyway, this feels like what the jedi council is, so yes.

Permission required for major decisions - SPEAKING OF THE JEDI COUNCIL... also, according to my wife, “obi-wan consults with the jedi council more than raiden consults with the elder gods.” i don’t understand this reference, but i’m glad some of you will.

Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative - again, the jedi council!!! like, there’s the whole “well you’re not a master YET” nonsense and... this post might turn me into an anakin skywalker apologist

Discourage individualism, encourage group-think - this is literally what caused the council to collapse. no one had an original thought.

Impose rigid rules and regulations - oh my god SOOOOOO MANY.

Punish disobedience by beating, torture, burning, cutting, rape, or tattooing/branding - happily, a no on this one. holy shit.

Threaten harm to family and friends - technically, this is a “no,” but it’s specifically because you’re not supposed to have any of those, so i’m giving this a half point. also, see everything that happened with Shmi Skywalker.

Force individual to rape or be raped - again, no.

Encourage and engage in corporal punishment - we don’t see what goes on in the crèches, but since we don’t have evidence, this is a no.

Instill dependency and obedience - they LITERALLY have a master/padawan system where you can’t question your superior, like???

Kidnapping - hot take but i totally think this is what they do with some younglings. that said, this is just my hot take, so this is technically still a no.

Beating - again, no

Torture - no

Rape - no

Separation of Families - actually yes??? like, true, i don’t have proof that the kids are kidnapped, but they fully separate children from their families at extremely young ages!

Imprisonment - no

Murder - listen, we could be here all day debating whether all, most, many, some, few, or none of the jedi’s killings are justified. but like... they’re warrior monks, so i’ll give this one a pass.

Score: 11.5/25

Information Control

Deception: a. Deliberately withhold information - i didn’t remember this one so i asked my wife and she immediately went “yeah, definitely” b. Distort information to make it more acceptable - “What I told you is true... from a certain point of view” - Obi-Wan Kenobi (this is a yes) c. Systematically lie to the cult member - DARTH FUCKING VADER had to tell Luke about his parentage! like! obi-wan! what the hell!

Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including: a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, media - this probably gets a “no” on a technicality. how would we even measure this? b. Critical information - nope c. Former members - again, this is a technical “no,” but it’s only because i really don’t think there are any “former members.” d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate - arguably yes, given how much they’re constantly running all over the galaxy. like, they’re definitely not the only law enforcement/army in the galaxy, so what gives? e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking - huh, i wonder if those blue video things are tracked? do we have any confirmation of that? i’m pretty sure they have the capability to do so, so i’m giving this a half point.

Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible - again, no way to measure this, so no b. Control information at different levels and missions within group - oh ABSOLUTELY. i’ll cut them a tiny bit of slack because they have to do this for like, legitimate national security interests sometimes, but they also do it for bullshit information control reasons. c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when - again, this is literally just the jedi council

Encourage spying on other members a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member - hello again, master/padawan relationship! b. Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership - you have ONE bad dream about your secret wife dying in labor, and everyone’s on your case about it. c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group - yep

Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including: a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media - another no on a technicality. also, this gives me the horrifying mental image of Jedi YouTubers, so now you have to suffer with that. b. Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources - nah

Unethical use of confession a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries - oh, you’re sad because you miss your enslaved mother? well THAT’S just proof you could NEVER be a jedi! b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution - do they even have a process for forgiveness or absolution? am i losing my mind or do we not see this? anyway, no. c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories - nope

Score: 9.5/19

Thought Control

Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth a. Adopting the group’s ‘map of reality’ as reality - this is just crèche training b. Instill black and white thinking - jesus, CONSTANTLY. “once you go over to the dark side, forever will it dominate your destiny!” c. Decide between good vs. evil - see above d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders) - see above again

Change person’s name and identity - huh, this one’s actually a sith thing. bonus points for the villains actually doing the cult-y thing this time, i guess.

Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words - the fact that yoda’s advice to a terrified first-grader is “Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering” really says it all here.

Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts - once again, see above.

Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member - nope

Memories are manipulated and false memories are created - not that we see, no.

Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including: a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking - those earlier yoda quotes are really pulling their weight in this section. goddamn. b. Meditating - i have to assume meditation is a part of jedi training, because like... come on. of course it is. that said, i don’t know if it’s specifically used to stop negative thoughts, so we’ll give it a half point. c. Chanting, Praying, Speaking in Tongues, Singing, or Humming - i put these all in one because they’re all religion-focused, but in a way that doesn’t map onto the jedi/star wars experience of religion. and the answer is no to all.

Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism - the jedi are so afraid of constructive criticism that anyone who tries gets hit with immediate professional consequences and social shaming

Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed - again, see above! it’s wild how many times i’ve said that here!

Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful - they literally call it the dark side. like, i’m not saying that Force choking or lighting is a good thing, but really, guys?

Instill new “map of reality” - eh, not really

Score: 10.5/16

Emotion Control

(upon seeing this i went “oh, i’m sure this will go GREAT.”)

Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish - fear, anger, the need for a parental figure... yep! all demonized!

Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt - yes again

Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault - your fear and grief about missing your mom are YOUR fault, anakin! it’s definitely not our fault that we took you away from your mom and left her to die!

Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as: a. Identity guilt - eh, not really b. You are not living up to your potential - oh absolutely yes. “you were supposed to bring balance to the force!!1!11!!!” like, i know it’s not said as a control tactic, but that’s a lot to put on a person! (side note: i was correct earlier; this post is totally turning me into an anakin skywalker apologist.) c. Your family is deficient - i actually don’t think they do this, so like... hurray for the bare minimum. d. Your past is suspect - they don’t explicitly say this, so even though i get the vibes, i have to give them a no. e. Your affiliations are unwise - fuck off this LITERALLY sounds like a yoda quote! i don’t care if he didn’t actually say this, i’m counting it. f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish - including your desire to grieve your mother, aunt, and uncle! g. Social guilt - no relationships allowed! f. Historical guilt - nope

Instill fear, such as fear of: a. Thinking independently - yeah there’s no way the council allows that b. The outside world - actually, no. they’re in pretty regular contact with the outside world, despite the fact that they ignore the increasing corruption of the galactic republic. c. Enemies - hello dark [side] my old friend... d. Losing one’s salvation - the only way the jedi could be worse is if there were some version of this. the only afterlife they have is being a blue ghost, which is rad as hell. e. Leaving or being shunned by the group - technically, no, but see above - no one ever leaves this group. f. Other’s disapproval - if mace windu looked at me with disappointment in his eyes i would DISSOLVE g. Historical guilt - nope

Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner - qui-gon and yoda both do this to anakin and luke, respectively.

Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins - the jedi council is responsible for so many of these

Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group - yep b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc. - no, but i also don’t think leaving the group is presented as an option? i know i keep giving half points, but it’s my high-effort shitpost and i’ll do it if i want to. c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends and family - see the above logic. hey look, the half-points evened out! d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll - oh my god can you IMAGINE yoda complaining about former jedi being “seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll.” someone get frank oz on this, stat. that said, people who join the dark side are explicitly said to be “seduced” by it, so... maybe? half-points abound! e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family - nope

Score: 14.5/25

Total Score: 46/85, or 54.12%. Honestly, that’s not quite as high as I was expecting, but that’s still like... concerningly high! like, if you join an organization and describe it as “just over half-cult,” that’s really bad! jedis! what are you doing!

#star wars #cult #bite model #jedi #anakin skywalker #is it true that tumblr only tracks your first 5 tags when putting your posts in the search results?#i guess i'll find out #i spent over 90 minutes on this #also if you are about to well ackshually me about my star wars opinions #consider: i do not care #all of my opinions are both sexy and correct thank you very much #a day in mah life

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floralovebot · 1 year

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Ive seen a lot of ppl say that Musa was whitewashed by the Fate: Winx saga, but while I agree an east asian actress should have been chosen, the actress Elisha Applebaum is jewish. From what Ive read, its controversial whether jewish ppl inherently count as poc or not so im not sure if I would call it "whitewashing"

Well, I'm not sure I'm the best person to talk to about this considering I'm not Jewish?

But from what I do know, this is an extremely controversial topic (like you said) that really doesn't have any one answer. There are Jewish people who fully consider themselves to be white (and Jewish of course but like... white too), and there are Jewish people who consider themselves to be poc. I think it's important to remember that a lot of the "Jewish people aren't poc if they aren't black/asian/dark-skinned/etc" comes from antisemitism or anti-zionism. A lot of poc in the west specifically say this because of antisemitism so a lot of the arguments for it are... not great to say the least.

In regard to Elisha specifically, she's ethnically Jewish so I think you could argue that it doesn't count as whitewashing, but that's really up to Jewish people to discuss. It's obviously still wrong for her to have been cast as Musa, that's not up for discussion, but whether she considers herself white, whether Jewish people consider her white, whether non-Jewish people (goyim?) consider her white and how much of that response is linked to internal antisemitism is all very personal and case by case. I'm not sure if there's a specific term for when people sort of... race or ethnicity change a character of color to a different but still not white race so like...?

But anyway, again there is no One specific answer because there's so much discussion and outright arguing over it. A lot of Jewish people do consider themselves to be poc and often West Asian/Middle Eastern (depending on who you ask) but there are a lot of arguments among themselves as well. This discussion really should be left up to them!

It's funny you mention this because I was actually discussing this with a Jewish mutual years ago! Here are some really interesting articles (written by Jewish people (as far as I'm aware)) that I found really helpful at the time: one, two, three, and four. There were others but I can't find them now :(

(There's also the matter of people converting to Judaism which is a similar but ultimately very different conversation so I do want to clarify that I'm specifically referring to ethnically Jewish people.)

#tbh i do consider jewish people to be poc but that's also not my place to say #i didn't know elisha was jewish though! perhaps thats why they initially put her as asian in her acting bio/resume?#i remember it being like 1/4 singaporean but... idk it's been a minute since everything happened #also we still have no idea if that was even true or just like.. a rumor or something they put for what she Could pass as #anyway the reason i mentioned that mutual is because their response i think really highlights the divide in opinion #they had gotten an ask asking if jewish people counted as poc (thankfully being nice about it)#and they had responded that some are white and some are poc and they considered themselves white #and i had messaged them because i had thought all jewish people were considered poc while some were just white passing #ANYWAY the point is that this controversy affects them first and foremost so listening to jewish people is the most important thing here #but there are still differing opinions among jewish communities so as of rn youre not going to get a 'clear' answer #answered #if any actually jewish people wanna chime in thatd be really nice! no pressure obviously but i dont want to overstep yknow?#especially if anything i said was wrong! like dont worry about correcting me id love to hear it!!

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