no bc you’re SO right that kai is WAY weaker as a villain than tai lung or shen (shen especially, bc imo he’s the best villain of the trilogy) and i’d love to hear your thoughts on why <3

100% agree shen is my FAVORITE villain of the trilogy and possibly one of my favorite villains of all time. and tai lung is an incredibly close second! however, i really didn't care for kai.

the biggest thing about kai for me is that, as a villain, he is way weaker than the other two because he is extremely lacking in a personal connection to po, and also much weaker when considering how his character reflects the themes and narrative of the movie as a whole.

tai lung, as a villain, worked so well because he was obsessed with the concept of being the dragon warrior, and the supposed "power" that would come with that. the lesson of kfp1, though, was that there WAS no real magical power given by the scroll - there is no secret ingredient! it's just you! it was never about the scroll; it was about choosing to be good and do good for the sake of being good, not because you wanted power for it. tai lung couldn't accept this, which is why he made a fantastic villain for this one, thematically. (and ALSO a fantastic foil to po, who is so humble and doesn't NEED power, he's just passionate about kung fu and wants to have a good time with his friends.)

lord shen as a villain who reflects the themes of the story, though, takes this to the absolute HIGHEST level. the entire story of kfp2 pivots around po's struggle to reconcile his origins with who he is now, and both of those things are directly related to shen - he leads the massacre that ends up getting po sent away, which sets him on the journey to BECOME the dragon warrior, and po's destiny was always going to be to defeat him. both then and now, the course of po's life is being shaped by shen. shen is also a fantastic foil to po in the same way that tai lung was - shen cannot let go of the past, he clings to his anger and his fear; while po is able to accept what happened, accept that it is part of who he is but not what defines him, and is able to find healing and peace.

kai, by comparison........ has almost nothing to do with po. kai actually has NO personal connection to po! his evil scheme is related to the pandas, but absolutely nothing to do with po, specifically. tai lung had no shared past with po the way lord shen did, but he still had personal and specific reasons to hate po because po was getting the title and role that he so desperately wanted. but kai's only beef is with oogway! he didn't even seem to know that po existed until oogway says "it was never my destiny to stop you - i have set another on that path." and kai just says "then i will find him, and take his chi as well." his motives are also much weaker than the other two's - who both wanted power, yes, but tai lung was also deeply desperate to make shifu proud, to live up to the legend that he had been raised to believe he would become, and part of this was shifu's fault! that's extremely interesting and tragic!! and shen was motivated by fear - fear of his prophecized defeat, of the inescapability of his fate - and by grief over his (perceived) inability to make his parents proud, or get them to love him. kai, by contrast, was..... mad that oogway wasn't okay with letting him become a magical chi-stealing warlord??

kai also doesn't tie in with the themes or po's arc in this movie. in terms of other characters, po's arc in this one revolves way more around his fathers - trying to handle his new responsibilities of being the teacher to the five, trying to figure out how to balance the two different identities he has as the son of these two different fathers, but the only connection he has to kai is that he needs to be a master of chi to defeat him, which he can only learn how to be from the pandas, which incidentally happen to be his family. (and the fact that at the end, everyone is doing chi makes it seem like him being a panda or not might not have even been that relevant to begin with!) and kai's defeat is also sort of weak - he's defeated by the "too much power" trope, but nothing else in this story was about being power-hungry or the dangers of it. it wasn't something any of the pandas struggled with, hunger for power was NEVER a part of po's journey, and at least in kfp1 tai lung's desire for the dragon scroll was about more than just power (he wanted to make shifu proud), but also, because the entire theme of that story was that you didn't NEED power to be the dragon warrior. kfp3's narrative isn't ABOUT power; it's about identity and culture and balancing different aspects of your life to find your truest self. kai's character has nothing to say about ANY of this, he doesn't struggle with or care about any of these things - he is JUST power-hungry.

he also lacks that character foil aspect the other two had. the ability to take chi is never even presented as an option to po. what MIGHT have been interesting would have been if the only way to defeat kai was to take HIS chi - something a master of it would be able to do! - and po was forced into the dilemma of having to choose between risking going down the same path as kai for the sake of protecting his loved ones, or the risk of endangering them even more by refusing to. if the conflict had been about the good vs evil uses of chi powers, then that would have made kai a foil to po as well. but as it is now, kai has nothing to do with po, personally.

basically what it boils down to is that kai, as a villain, is serviceable, but when held up in contrast to the previous two, it becomes very obvious how much weaker he is narratively. his motivations are much shallower than the others', his connection to po is tangential at best, and as an antagonist, he doesn't have anything to say about the themes or messaging of the story OR the protagonist's arc.

I’m Going To Talk About Kung Fu Panda Now

as much as it pains me to say this as your local Number One Kung Fu Panda Fan, like........ kfp 3 is, not as good as 1 and 2....... but i am going to talk about it bc i do love kfp and i love talking abt kfp and so this falls under that lol

NOW LIKE, OBJECTIVELY, kfp 3 is still a great movie. it is still such a good movie especially compared to animation in recent years.

it’s just that like, kung fu panda 1 and 2 were just, SO good, they set the bar so high, so when the third movie was an objectively good movie it just... wasn’t as good as its predecessors

and i think it can really be boiled down to two things: the music and the villain, two things the kfp movies are renowned for

a lot of people point to the comedy as the reason for this movie’s downfall, and while that contributes to it i don’t think it, was the downfall? all the kung fu panda movies are kids movies with lots of comedy, even in kfp2 which was the darkest of the three. 3 definitely had a lot more comedy than 1 and 2 though, and that’s not inherently bad? it’s just that i think it was applied in the wrong places

which brings me back to... the villain.

so, kfp 1 and 2 had absolutely iconic villains. tai lung, the foreboding snow leopard who was shifu’s adoptive son and former student. he was raised with the belief that he would be named the dragon warrior, so when the moment came, and he wasnt.... well, he snapped, violently, and had to be locked away in prison for decades. he was put in a massive prison where he was the sole prisoner, guarded by 1000 soldiers, and he managed to escape with one (1) duck feather. he is violent and frightening, and ultimately he is a foil to po. while he seems like a stereotypical WAH EVIL NO REMORSE >:3 villain, he is honestly.. so much deeper than that? like his mere existence poses so many interesting questions in regards to po, his foil, and even shifu, and when you think about it its like, YEAH tai lung was evil for going around and killing people because he didnt get what he wanted BUT LIKE, he was literally raised with the belief that he would become the dragon warrior. his entire life was dedicated to that. it’s like, gifted kid syndrome but 100% worse. genuinely, what the fuck do you do with yourself when you dedicate your entire life towards something only for it to be like, oh sorry lol not you, at the last minute? especially when it was your own damn father who drilled that belief into you? his anger is absolutely justified. the only reason tai lung is a villain is just that he channeled that anger into like, homicide. his actions are not justifiable but his motives are honestly 10000% understandable and it makes him such an interesting character when you look beyond the typical smirking antagonist who kills people for fun exterior lol. and then juxtapose that with po? tai lung was raised to believe he would be the dragon warrior, meanwhile po, once named dragon warrior ~by accident~ was faced with opposition at every god damn turn. literally no one, not even himself, believed he was the dragon warrior. and beyond the character foil thing, it’s like, the way tai lung escaped from prison and how all his actions really play into that movie’s major theme of how In Trying To Escape Your Destiny, You Ultimately Fulfill it, it’s just. god it’s so good. he’s such a good villain

AND THEN kfp 2 had shen, a white peacock who, honestly, IS the villain that tai lung is often perceived to be. he had loving parents but he didnt get what he wanted so he threw a hissy fit and committed genocide. his motives are a lot weaker, but he makes up for it in sheer presence. who thought a peacock would ever be threatening or a serious villain? YET HE IS!!!!! his presence is just so big and evil... the voice actor does a great job in making him sound so shrill and bird-like as well and its like, wow that peacock voice is actually EERIE? and just, overall, the fact he’s a peacock is such a good character design. his character design and overall presence is much better than tai lung, who’s literally just like, a normal uhm “person” for this universe. shen poses a much more personal threat to po as well - honestly, physically, po and the furious five probably could’ve taken him down earlier in the movie. tai lung was more of a physical threat, but shen? well shen does pose a much bigger physical threat as well since he has his cannons, but his main power is that he’s a PSYCHOLOGICAL threat. this is the second movie, po’s had training, he’s friends with the furious five so he has them fighting alongside him, he’s secure in the belief that he is the dragon warrior and he’s confident he can take any threat. yet, shen is still a major threat - specifically, to po. i mentioned shen committed genocide? yeah, well a fortune teller foretold that a panda would be shen’s downfall, so to prevent his downfall! shen killed all the pandas. po managed to survive because his mother hid him away in the valley of peace, where he was raised by ping. po was a baby at that time, he has no memories of this.... at least, until he meets shen, and the PEACOCK PATTERN on his FEATHERS reminds po of that Fateful night (once again, who knew a peacock could be so threatening!!!!!). and po, in his flashback, cannot fight back. that’s where shen gets his power - he holds the answers to po’s past, he’s the source of all his repressed trauma. shen is a more frightening antagonist than tai lung because he holds such personal power over po. what shen doesnt have in interesting character motives, he more than makes up for in his sheer presence!!! and AGAIN, his arc ties into that overarching theme of you fulfilling your destiny in an effort to avoid it - shen killed the pandas so that no panda could bring him down, but in doing so he indirectly brought po to the valley of peace, so that po could become the dragon warrior, and thus defeat him!!!!

now....... kai in kfp3?? where do i even begin...........

okay. so. kai has i think probably the best design of all the villains. he’s got such an imposing stature, he’s even taller than tai lung, and his HORNS! very intimidating. and his whole blue/green color scheme is very sinister and adds such a cool fucking atmosphere. his chi powers are also cool and all that spirit world stuff

onto kai’s role in the narrative........... so, kai poses no personal threat to po. shen was the most personal of them, with tai lung being more general (his main threat was that oh no he’s gonna rampage the valley of peace again!) but ultimately even he still posed a more personal threat to po, in that tai lung wanted to be the dragon god damn warrior and po was in his way. but what beef does kai have with po?? lmfao . his most personal tie with po is that, before the panda genocide, the pandas taught kai and oogway how to use chi

his beef was with oogway. and we don’t ever really get to explore his relationship with oogway because well, oogway’s gone, so their relationship is being narrated to us in the future, far far removed. his character motivations are so weak. like, he was ~brothers in arms~ with oogway, and yet when kai gets a whiff of power he just, instantly turns on oogway?? instantly? and oogway barely has any qualms with sending his best friend to the spirit world? like wheres the TENSION wheres the CONFLICT where is the EMOTIONAL DRAMA... nevermind how like, little i care about ~villain is power hungry~ sorta deal... at least with tai lung wanting to be dragon warrior, he did that because his entire sense of self had depended on that. but kai? literally some nice pandas teach him a new power and he’s instantly like OH I HAVE TO USE IT TO KILL PEOPLE like where did that come from??? and when his friend is like HI MAYBE DONT KILL PEOPLE ? he wants to abuse this brand new power THAT badly that he’d turn on his best friend with no hesitation??

this literally just came to me so idk if its a good idea lol but like i think it’d be really interesting if somehow there was? some sort of corrupting power? so that when he learned chi it kinda forced him to abuse it. like the sheer intensity of how fucking wild he got the instant he learned chi is just like, thats not normal bro . plus this movie’s already pretty supernatural so like, maybe there’s something beyond his control that’s making him do this. like, like think of the mind stone in avengers 1, how loki was using it to control everyone. everyone retained their personalities and abilities but ultimately were following loki’s orders. so like, something like that controlling him. it would make him a more interesting character imo and also make the whole conflict with oogway kinda heart breaking cause here his friend isnt in control of himself, and he still has to put him in the spirit world because regardless, kai is a menace. overall it would heighten the emotional intensity and appeal i think. and also it would play really nicely into this movie’s pattern of “not being in control of yourself” a la the jade zombies stuff. and how ironic would it be if kai played puppetmaster while he himself was being controlled.. lol

and then, not only is kai just kinda a flat character period, then his narrative role as a villain is undermined? like his character design and overall presence is on the same fuckin level as shen like he is SO intimidating and they could absolutely play that up.... but then. the comedy. here’s what i was talking about with the comedy being applied poorly. because kai is simultaneously a major fucking threat who is terrorizing all of china, yet whenever he’s actually on screen no characters take him seriously? especially po and the pandas. like the part where kai was slowly uhm Killing for lack of a better word all of the kung fu masters in china and all the names just keep piling up and up until the realization that the jade palace is the last stronghold left to stop him.. that shit is so eerie . it is so eerie. and kai LITERALLY DESTROYED THE JADE PALACE LIKE IT WAS NOTHING. HE SMASHED IT TO SMITHEREENS. the look of HORROR on tigress’s face during that, the fact the oogway statue was the thing used to destroy the jade palace, the poetic cinema of that, the irony, oh my god....... it was such a gut wrenching scene. and kai is such a major villain there, you HAVE to take him seriously. but then when he gets to the panda village? he fucking monologues. and po is like “stop with the chit chat” and just generally undermining him and its to the point where like, would it be better to let kai monologue or have po not take him seriously? either decision sucks because its either the audience realizing its stupid, or its having the movie be self referential and say oh yeah we know its stupid, but by doing that then you’re saying that the villain is stupid and not to be taken seriously? and then the major fight scene with kai attacking the village, the pandas were having fun just fucking around with the jade zombies, nobody looked like they were fighting for their god damn lives?? yeah i know the point was that like oh you dont need to be a master of formal kung fu, we got this bros, we can win by just being ourselves, but LIKE? they could also still be scared for their lives??? they could still fight him like pandas but still take it seriously? because if they lost, not only would THEY die, but they are the LAST STAND against kai so all of china would be FUCKED if they were defeated!! and yet everybodys laughing and having fun during it?!?! like the stakes are set SO high and yet nobody actually acts like the stakes are high and ultimately kai as a villain is just undermined by the narrative and its so underwhelming compared to how seriously the previous 2 villains were taken and how good they were at being villains because of it....

anyway ive already been writing this for 40 minutes and im losing steam so im gonna briefly touch upon the music now.. i dont think the music is as glaring an error as kai was, but i think it contributes to it.

idk, the music in 3 just doesn’t feel as authentically Kung Fu Panda as the previous 2 movies. i think the most shocking thing was that oogway’s legacy had a fucking PIANO in it?!!?! A PIANO? i think thats the ONLY instance a piano has ever been used in this entire franchise and its genuinely just so... wrong... like it sounds good but it’s just!! oogway’s theme has always been in traditional string instruments and so to hear it in this stripped piano is just, it doesnt feel like a real part of the kfp soundtrack

and 1 and 2 reused a lot of the same musical themes while still being unique on their own, yet kfp 3 literally only ever uses oogway’s theme, and that’s at the very beginning in the one song oogway’s legacy. maybe it uses a few other previous themes but theyre used very sparingly to the point where i wouldnt be able to tell you what or when. without those overarching musical themes it just doesnt feel like an authentic kung fu panda soundtrack!!! idk its just ..... maybe this is a nit pick im making because i’ve listened to the 1 and 2 soundtracks religiously for years but it’s something i noticed and it’s a reason why i can’t really listen to 3′s soundtrack as much lol

also. kai’s theme is so good and it also contributes to that intimidating presence he has. it’s so good

BUT ALSO IT IS ? LITERALLY THE MELODY FROM IM SO SORRY BY IMAGINE DRAGONS. and it was intentionally taken from that song, it’s credited in the end credits. which also serves to make this feel not authentically kung fu panda because all the other villains had their own original themes meanwhile kai its like, yes its a good theme but it just isnt ? kung fu panda??

AND IF THEYRE GONNA SAMPLE A POP SONG FOR HIS THEME THEN LIKE. CAN THERE BE A NARRATIVE REASON FOR IT? like genuinely why the fuck was this song used. i try to wrack my brain as to why im so sorry was used nd it gives me cool ideas on how to flesh kai out as a character but those ideas just arent supported in canon so its like ??!?!?!?!?!

like again going back to that He’s Being Controlled idea, i think it would be so cool to communicate that subconsciously through this song. the reason they’d sample it is because it is a popular pop song so we all know that it goes IM SO SORRY in the main line, so having our brains fill that in... and it’d be like how subconsciously he’s still there inside and being control, meanwhile on the outside he shows no remorse and actually seems to be enjoying it and is overall just a fucking menace but there, inside! we get a brief glimpse of whats going on inside through this song!!

BUT LIKe. THATS NOT CANON? HE’S NOT BEING CONTROLLED IN CANON. AND HE SHOWS NO REMORSE FOR HS ACTIONS SO WHY IS HIS MAIN THEME SAMPLED FROM A SONG CALLED IM SO SORRY??!?!?!?

anyway im really out of steam now its been 50 minutes and i think i’ve touched upon everything i wanted to talk about.... again, this isnt to say kfp 3 is a bad movie its just that, these are the reasons why i think it’s the weakest of the franchise. it’s by no means a bad movie its just, in comparison to the perfection that kfp 1 and 2 are its just, kinda lackluster. but remove that comparison and it’s like oh fuck yeah this is a good movie. its just, frustrating, because we know how good 1 and 2 are and its like, 3 couldve been so much more bro....... but that frustration comes from a place of Love

anyway . watch all 3 kung fu panda movies now

- your local Kung Fu Panda enthusiast