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randomnameless · 2 years

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you can’t just go, “look, the empire is always bad!” when the influence of rogue dragons often has a very marked impact upon the conflict of whatever setting is at work. The earth dragons refused to humble themselves and live as manaketes, so they went feral, setting off a chain of tragedies and a cycle of vengeance that saw Medeus try to raise and empire and crush humanity in Archanea twice, which then led to the tragedy of Hardin’s fall. Mila and Duma struggled with Naga for power, lost, and acted as gods to an entire continent. Their warped teachings in time led humans astray. Loptyr brought his grudge against humanity to another continent, ushering in a two-hundred year era of darkness and misery that only ended a little over a hundred years before the Jugdral games began. Elibe is unique in that we don’t know which side started the fighting. Humans and dragons fought for their survival. Dheginsea was so obsessed with upholding the letter of his oath to Ashera rather than the spirit of it that he allowed for tragedies to unfold beneath his nose that he could have helped to stop, fomenting hatred between the Laguz and Beorc. But worst of all, he allowed for all Branded to be pariahs rather than reveal the truth of why Laguz and Beorc might not wish to copulate. Naga is aloof and lives apart from humanity, only emerging to defend them in their hour of need. All the good manaketes live (relatively, Nowi is not quite humble :p) quietly among humans, often as humans do, and do so peacefully. Fire Emblem demonstrates that dragons hold inordinate power to shake the worlds their live in, and demonstrates why they need to wield that power with care and never yield to pride. Establishing themselves as gods is almost always the mark of an evil dragon in this setting. There’s a general theme in this series of letting go of the past and moving forward, that old trends come to an end and nothing lingers on eternally. It’s those dragons that want to cling to pride, life and godhood forever, such as Grima, Medeus, and Anankos, Mila, and Duma when they were in a mire of their own presumed goodhood, that fall to vises and become destructive forces. Seriously, it’s been there since the very beginning; the old dragon tribes, the Earth Dragons chief of all, refused to let go of their pride as dragons and live as humans do, and they paid the ultimate price; becoming feral beasts often enslaved by the very humans they once thought themselves better than.

Replying like this, anon.

you can’t just go, “look, the empire is always bad!” when the influence of rogue dragons often has a very marked impact upon the conflict of whatever setting is at work

TFW the devs themselves have an archetype called “red emperor” who’s always the antagonist as opposed to the playable Lord who’s supposed to be the hero.

Maybe the empire is always bad because the people writing the game portrayed them to be be bad?

The earth dragons refused to humble themselves and live as manaketes, so they went feral, setting off a chain of tragedies and a cycle of vengeance that saw Medeus try to raise and empire and crush humanity in Archanea twice, which then led to the tragedy of Hardin’s fall.

Check your Archanean lore, the earth dragons refused to “humble” themselves by using dragon stones, so they were sealed in the Temple of Rahman.

Medeus became extra sour when other dragons, who accepted to “humble” themselves, were suddenly enslaved by humans, the very same humans they were supposed to “humble” themselves for. The tragedy that led to Hardin’s fall and FE11 isn’t Medeus waking up being cranky, but an old gremlin who was really really really sad that Gotoh-senpai didn’t notice him and noticed Miloah instead, so he went ham and tried to ruin the world for the lulz.

Bear in mind Gharnef also planned to backstab Medeus, as he wanted to keep Falchion for himself (and Elice... for reasons) as a weapon to use against Medeus himself.

Mila and Duma struggled with Naga for power, lost, and acted as gods to an entire continent. Their warped teachings in time led humans astray.

They didn’t struggle with Naga for “power”, but because Duma used a preventive strike against some humans in Thabes (who ultimately created Grima). You say it yourself, their teachings led humans astray “in time”, but for the 1k years they were chilling in Valentia, Humans were living happily.

SoV tries its hardest to depict Mila’s benevolence and “dgaf” attitude as very very bad, but who’s the most to blame when Celica’s mom was seduced by Lima? Mila who didn’t do a thing to “prevent” Celica’s mom from being seduced, or Lima who forcibly hold her hand?

Again, I don’t see Duma telling Rudy to treat his nephew like dirt, or to say to Berkut to yell “Silence woman” at his fiancée whenever she doesn’t agree with him. Tatiana and the Halcyon branch of the Duma faithful, the people who follow his teachings, aren’t led astray like Jedah and yet they follow, supposedly, the same teachings.

Why, it’s almost as if people can be asses, regardless of their stance on “dragon worship” or not.

Loptyr brought his grudge against humanity to another continent, ushering in a two-hundred year era of darkness and misery that only ended a little over a hundred years before the Jugdral games began

If you have any source about Loptyr having a specific grudge against humans, then please provide because as far as we know, Loptyr was just an ass happy to wreck havoc all around for the lols.

Is it because Loptyr is an ass that all dragons are asses in the Jugdral verse ? If so, then is it because Bramsel seduces Lene in Darna that all humans are asses?

Elibe is unique in that we don’t know which side started the fighting. Humans and dragons fought for their survival.

Ding dong, you’re wrong.

Elibe’s scouring started because of humans.

Next?

Dheginsea was so obsessed with upholding the letter of his oath to Ashera rather than the spirit of it that he allowed for tragedies to unfold beneath his nose that he could have helped to stop, fomenting hatred between the Laguz and Beorc. But worst of all, he allowed for all Branded to be pariahs rather than reveal the truth of why Laguz and Beorc might not wish to copulate

Hahahaha -

I know in certain circles of this fandom (seriously I never knew this could ever happen in the FE series to be honest) miscegenation is seen as something negative, but that’s absolutely not my stance.

Lehran tried to kill himself when the “truth” was revealed, and the game makes it clear that Laguz who lose their powers are not in a good mental state. Forge the “might not wish to copulate”, it’s texto a reason why Beorcs would feel superior to Laguz, because if such couples happen, forcibly or not, the Beorc suvives, and the Laguz dies.

Both Yune and Ashera do not know what are brandeds, and Yune doesn’t know what to do with the small “issue” that Laguz basically end up “crippled” if they mate with Beorcs.

Ashera’s judgment is a hammer - there’s no “spirit” vs “word” of the law to uphold, if war happens she will strike, no matter why or how. This is why she doesn’t want to talk or even hear Yune when Yune reveals she was awoken by the Galdr of release. Ashera doesn’t care, because Ashera is order.

Naga is aloof and lives apart from humanity, only emerging to defend them in their hour of need

Because Naga wants to let human deal with their own shit, and only intervenes when another dragon starts some shit.

It might come as incredible, but Naga is not here to bring civilisation, peace and order to humans - she wants to let them deal with their own issues.

All the good manaketes live (relatively, Nowi is not quite humble :p) quietly among humans, often as humans do, and do so peacefully.

When you meet Nowi, even with Awakening’s weird tone, she was being pursued by slavers and Gregor rescued her.

That’s not really my definition of “living peacefully”. Also, we don’t know if Bantu lives peacefully with humans, or if he’s still walking the earth telling stories to people he meets.

Fire Emblem demonstrates that dragons hold inordinate power to shake the worlds their live in, and demonstrates why they need to wield that power with care and never yield to pride

If you think this is the message and demonstration this series displays, then we might not see eye to eye.

Tellius doesn’t happen because a dragon is too proud and wields his power freely, Tellius happens because humans genocided people, and a survivor of said genocide, who already had serious depression issues, gives up on the world.

Yes, there’s always an element of “supernatural/magical” to make FE a fantasy series, but FE never put the fantasy elements at the forefront - if a catastrophe happens it is not because we are in a fantasy world with dragons, it is because, in 95% of the times, humans start continental wars and the consequence of said war, or its repercussions, involve fantasy elements, and often, dragons.

Remember Tolkien? Who ultimately saves the world? The Ents? The Elves ? No, but a bunch of two random peasants, from a race of peasants.

Everyone can shake the world they live in.

It’s those dragons that want to cling to pride, life and godhood forever, such as Grima, Medeus, and Anankos, Mila, and Duma when they were in a mire of their own presumed goodhood, that fall to vises and become destructive forces.

Grima is an error the devs conceived to make a link between Archanea and Ylisse, but they tried to retcon it later in Gaiden as something which isn’t just talking in red capslocks and lo !

Grima is an artificial being CREATED from dead things by a human, Forneus! Forneus didn’t plan for his creature to know how to do parley tricks, nope. Forneus is the reason behind Grima’s “meaningless” existence.

We already established earlier that you do not have all intel about Archanea, so I will refrain from commenting on Medeus.

Anankos is a mess, but he falls to madness because of degeneration - and yet he also doesn’t, since he created a part of himself that had a human form, banged Mikoto and created Corrin. That “manakete-Anankos” did not cling to pride, but instead sacrificed himself to save Lilith.

Mila gave Falchion to humans, in hopes they could put the duo of siblings to rest if they ever degenerated, it’s a very very very far cry from someone who clings to pride and “godhood” forever.

Still, the same point about miscegenation stands, if you are a follower or r/atheism, I don’t think we can have a civil and meaningful discussion, and coming up with memes to reply actually takes too much of my time.

Seriously, it’s been there since the very beginning; the old dragon tribes, the Earth Dragons chief of all, refused to let go of their pride as dragons and live as humans do, and they paid the ultimate price; becoming feral beasts often enslaved by the very humans they once thought themselves better than.

Re Archanean knowledge : the Earth Dragon Chief, the jacked guy called Medeus in Heroes, is a Manakete.

Humans enslaved manaketes, which irked Medeus more than whatever happened to Archanea’s wyverns.

So your point is utterly moot.

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Another post, idk if it came from you (you know, with the anon asks and all)

I can make shitposts myself, I do not need to look at someone else's feces for inspiration, but thanks for the thought!

#anon #replies #fandom woes #fe series #I really thought a bit about the trollface #is it appropriate? I wanted to make a photoshop with peanuts and the trollface #summer discourse saga 2022 edition

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randomnameless · 2 years

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There is no villain route there was never a time in fire emblem where we sided with evil character including conquests the point was to save nohr and go against their father the only outright villainous characters in three houses is the agarthans even rhea and seteth can be friendly and aren’t pure evil and do some good though rhea does need to be removed from power three houses and hopes has reinforced this that rhea was doing wrong like propagating crest system propaganda suppressing tech That cost people their lives withholding information like land development advice for faerghus which always had problems with food and land but only when rhea is taken in does she give advice to the king dimitri and when she could have given the advice for sooner azure gleam has the worst outcome for fodlan rhea hasn’t learnt anything and I roll my eyes at rhea apologists who try to claim she did nothing wrong when she had the game acknowledges she has and shows it

You know, reading this makes me think of a six years old who learnt the poetry he is supposed to recite by heart, and delivers it without pausing, in one breath, talking really really fast.

But it's not because you talk really really fast that no one hears your mistakes or blunders!

There is no villain route there was never a time in fire emblem where we sided with evil character including conquests the point was to save nohr and go against their father

Yep, never before Tru Piss did we have a Fire Emblem game where we sided with a "Lord" who was also the red Emperor, who sided with Izuka and made use of his Feral Ones.

Never before in Fire Emblem we sided with a Lord who invades countries to make theirs great again, or disses on a race calling it incapable of having human feelings.

To be honest, this is why I first picked Tru Piss in FE16, I wanted to see what IS was going to do, and, well, I received the rat scene and "uwu drawing" instead.

I was pretty disappointed.

the only outright villainous characters in three houses is the agarthans even rhea and seteth can be friendly and aren’t pure evil and do some good

The Agarthan, just like the Grima Cult (i forgot its name for all i care about it) is a modern take on the Loptyr cult and even Duma's faithful, where everyone belonging to that group is bad/evil, and responsible for "a majority" of things going bad in their respective worlds.

It sucks, and I really miss the FE5 Loptyr goons who are just "I was only there for money" or "sorry I promise I'll become good now" randoms.

Are you sure Rhea and Seteth can be friendly though? I mean, in the game, they are in charge of a giant orphanage and charity institution, I'm not sure it can be called something good.

though rhea does need to be removed from power three houses and hopes has reinforced this that rhea was doing wrong like propagating crest system propaganda suppressing tech

Damn I forgot the /s

Nopes reinforces that Rhea helps Supreme Leader when Supreme Leader asks for her help and Supreme Leader in turn wants to terminate her because she still has pointy ears. And Clout? Wants to get rid of her because "yolo", being stupid enough to think Supreme Leader will stop her war if Rhea disappears, on top of forgetting that the main responsible for Fodlan thinking Almyra sucks is Almyra itself.

Rhea does not propagate crust system, you see no pizzas in Garreg Mach.

And the Highest Member of the Knights, who later becomes Captain, isn't Thunder Catherine with her Major Charon Crest, no, it's Alois the Crestless average Joe.

As for suppressing tech, this is related to the meme from above, Rhea doesn't remove it, she lets human discover it at an "acceptable pace". Now, she is the one deciding what is "acceptable" from what is not, and it has a lot of questions and interrogations I'd love to discuss with someone who is at least able to use comas and dots.

That cost people their lives withholding information like land development advice for faerghus which always had problems with food

Ah, the famous "Rhea made people starve" take, I thought it was dead and long burried, but Nopes resurrected it!

Maybe you come from a country that has an imperialist history, or some kind of "interventionism", but generally speaking, when you are dealing with States, you do not "impart" them your "knowledge and civilisation" if they don't ask for it.

Does Rhea know about the Galatea food issues?

"She must" well no, because, Faerghus is its own sovereign state, and as shown by Matthias after the Miklan debacle, some people just don't like to ask for help for fear of being trapped later on. Faerghus isn't Garreg Mach's satellite state, no. Also, if Rhea, the Church, suddenly started to help Faerghus gain more grain and food, how would Adrestia and Leicester react? They do not receive the same "help" and, say, if Faerghus suddenly doesn't need to import Adrestian wheat or Leicester fruits, wouldn't they lose economically speaking?

Billy actually reveals what was Rhea, and the devs's solution about this issue : Rhea/The Church won't come to impart civilisation on people, but if they ask for help or even visit Garreg Mach - which is open to everyone - they will be directed to books which might help them.

So there is no "withholding" information, but rather putting it in the continent biggest library, accessible everyday by everyone, provided they don't come to the Monastery to kill its leader of inhabitants.

but only when rhea is taken in does she give advice to the king dimitri and when she could have given the advice for sooner

And yet Ingrid, if she can talk to Billy and spend time in school, can read a book about those issues and learn how to solve them.

Has Dimitri even asked her about his agricultural issues earlier? Have earlier Faerghus Kings asked her how to maximise their harvest before? I don't think so.

For all reasons explained above, Rhea cannot give advice on something unless she's asked about it.

She's not here out to bring civilisation to Faerghus and its people, she did it once for Adrestia and look at how it ended.

azure gleam has the worst outcome for fodlan rhea hasn’t learnt anything

Well, I disagree, Rhea learnt that she has allies and can rely on them again, without placing all of her hopes for a better future on Billy's shoulders because worshipping the player's joystick is that important in FE16.

roll my eyes at rhea apologists who try to claim she did nothing wrong when she had the game acknowledges she has and shows it

In France we have a saying that someone must roll their tongues seven times in their mouths before speaking else they'll speak shit - sometimes I wonder if the same saying can be applied for "typing" on the internet, but maybe if you roll your eyes enough you'll finally learn basic grammar?

I don't really know who you are vaguing about, but in a serious discussion/conversation, some people acknowledge that Rhea did "some things wrong". Context is important though, something that some devoted people on this website, but on social networks in general, elude because it requires to think a bit and not to give a "gut reaction" to the first 3 words they read.

The game acknowledges it... but forgets to tell what it was that she did was so wrong, what other path she could have walked and ultimately, what she is acknowledging - bar not seeing Billy as their own character, but as... something akin to her worthless Mother.

Rhea's wrongdoings are, oddly, never the ones she's derided for in the fandom, so maybe Rhea apologists ignore that part of the game, but they're not the only ones, her detractors too, ignore that part of the game.

And ultimately, as everyone pointed out after Nopes, FE16 was a game meant to make the player feel good, no matter their choices. The plot warped itself around this concept, and another concept which is as important if not more important : the need to sell Hresvelg Tea.

#summer discourse saga 2022 edition #i mean this shit was sent in july #the 31st to be precise #so it's not my answer that counts as summer discourse but the take #i'm totally not trying to justify posting this after the 21st of september because I'm late on my planning again #nope!#seriously the person who invented thick crust deserves a jar of mayo #the land development take is like some schmuck complaining that he isn't fed the information #when said information is accessible just right here #heck one could even argue that if students and people got along in GM from different coutnries they could #you know exchange more about what they need and what they can/could provide #Ferdie has a treatise on agriculture and takes those studies seriously but he won't talk to a Ferghian about it #what is the next rhea bad take? She forgot to invent latrines?

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randomnameless · 2 years

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If you are under the impression. That three house has clear cut good guy route or evil route you are wrong

Gasp I’m wrong!

Help me! What am I supposed to do?

edelgard starting the war which is necessary for the goals of overturnibn fodlan s established order

But what order are you talking about?

Supreme Leader started her war after seizing power in her own country, and in Nopes, after reforming Adrestia as she saw fit.

Her allies demolished Faerghus so bad that there is no order in that place during the events of the Academy part of the game, Lambert was trying to “overturn” whatever existed in Faerghus, and AM!Dimitri apparently puts more commoners in his government than what previously existed.

Do you have any source about the order that used to exist in the Alliance before the War? And why it needed to be overturned?

It can’t be because of their reliance on the Church, because even in FE16 proper they only pay “lip-service” to its teachings. It can’t be crest based discrimination either, because Holst exists, and Judith has no seat anymore, when Edmund, crestless Edmund, got hers.

and rhea isn’t evil or villainous the game is consistent rhea needs to be removed from power she is wrong and her actions like the crest system and stagnation of tech hurt people

Rhea needs to be “removed” from “power”, even if she has no “power” as said War demonstrated?

Also, pretty sure Rhea gives her position to Billy from her own volition on non Tru Piss routes, so she can remove herself just fine, no need to kill thousands of randoms for that :)

For my part, I prefer thin crust in my pizzas, but there is no international norm or system that commands all pizzas from the world to adopt thin crust, so it’s ultimately up to each restaurant to decide whether they want their thick crust or if they want to make a thin crust pizza.

Stagnation of tech hurt so many people that we can’t name any, take the ban on autopsies. Fodlan isn’t a world where some schmuk can learn how to heal by singing in a choral once per month for at least 3 months, nope.

White magic doesn’t exist, so people cannot be healed without “autopsies”. Or they suffer a lot. Somehow.

war was only way rhea isn’t naga Naga wouldn’t do what rhea does putting humans under heel controlling them

And yet, to several Adrestians and people from the Fodlan verse, a lot of people would be pretty pleased to be under Rhea’s heels.

Naga and Rhea are two different people, and Rhea cannot fuck away to Sothis knows where to run away from humans, she wants to stay in the land that saw her birth and in her home without being turned into a pair of rolling dices.

Did she thwart Fodlan’s History out of self preservation (for her and kind) purposes, to protect the descendants of the Elites and in a bid to stop the war and usher an era of relative peace? Yep.

Does this count as “controlling”?

Is Rhea playing 5D chess when she controlled the Adrestian Emperor (not Willy!!) to ban her southern Church and piss on her teachings? Did she control the Western Church when its Bishop sent several people to kill her?

Word of God itself said :

That said, Seiros and co. meddled with history not in order to rule over humans, but to quell the flames of war and chaos as much as possible, and to also keep a steady balance about humanity.

Sorry if it doesn’t match a certain fanfic, but I don’t think the Author is Dead, and their words, even if I sometimes rage at them, hold precedence over any BNF (NoA included).

#summer discourse saga 2022 edition #TFW word of god is ignored but crust system prevails #if only no one was trying to change how their countries were running before Supeme Leader started her Supreme Leader things #FE16 #fandom woes #tech stagnation is a complicated topic that deserves more than punctuation less anon #it's all about priorities and the goals that can be achieved through those new means #would the world be a better place without mustard gaz? if someone banned its invention would it be considered censorship?#are there limits to censorship? rather can it be allowed in some cases? whoever knows #this topic is way more large and serious than talking to some schmuck whose only achievement is to send word salad on anon

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randomnameless · 2 years

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The summer saga continues!

I think you forgot the 2/2 message, anon, but since it’s always the same reheated canned ravioli salad, I think I can live without it.

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Alm would likely side with Supreme Leader

I do not think so, Alm chose the conqueror path, but when it costs him his douche dad and douche cousin, he reconsiders and laments about this path being worthless.

Alm accepts Celica’s love and point of view about the others, and accepts to fulfill Mila’s last request, instead of erasing Duma because his ears are not round or to make a “world for humanity”.

And rhea is like dumas and mila trying to control humanity dumas is responsible for the humans behavior

Duma is responsible for Lima, Desaix, and Berkut “silence woman”‘s behaviour? Are those people just meatsuits with no agency, mindbroken to revert to their 12 years old state when the consequences of their actions are going to hit them, or do they die/suffer accordingly because of what they did, from their own volition?

Is Duma also responsible for Tatiana forgetting bread in the over or not ? Or Alm eating raw flour?

Duma’n’Mila were not “trying to control” humanity as, for Mila at least, we saw her chillaxing in her temple, eating apples and playing with her nuns.

Duma isn’t the one sitting in castle Rigel, being the Emperor and ordering his nephew to hunt a bunch of peasants, nope. Mila and Duma provided humanity their “teachings” and “blessings”, what humans did (or not) with them is not their problem.

rather than naga who leaves humanity alone except In time of need

Make your mind (unless there are several anons with spelling issues?), Naga BaD bcs she doesn’t interact with humanity, but Duma’n’Mila BaD because they do?

In any case, Mila confesses they have been wrong, their desire to guide humanity was genuine and true : they wanted to help.

dragons calling themselves a god is a sign of a fallen dragon

IIRC, only a few of them do this, from memory, capslock Grima, Duma in his Hero quote (when you summon him!) and... ? That’s all? Maybe Worst Mom, if you consider her to be a dragon.

However, why calling themselves Gods is a sign of being “fallen”? It can be considered a form of arrogance, but being arrogant doesn’t mean being fallen (fallen as understood in the FE series’s sense!). Shinon is arrogant, Flamey is arrogant, hell, even Ike might sound arrogant at times - they’re not fallen?

And even outside of the FE series... Is the old Namekian in the DB series refered as “Kami” fallen, because, well, he calls himself a God? What about Kaioshin ? Are they fallen too?

it seems you tried to put responsibility out of the behavior of the dragons they aren’t all evil but an antagonist dragon and. Dragons starting problems leading to humans escalated into bad behavior was a trend which got

Cutting it here because for whoever’s sake, don’t put a dot in the middle of a sentence !

Evened out in games like fate.

Fates is, from memory, the only instance where a dragon goes “mad” and humans suffer in consequence - without prior human intervention (Echoes retconned Gaiden by turning Mila’n’Duma in dragons and their madness was induced for, uh, reasons, because Duma left before Naga developed the dragon stone technology? And, uh, no one thought it would be a good idea to tell the pair of siblings to turn in manaketes to avoid degeneration?)

Archanea, Magvel, Elibe, Tellius, even arguably, Fodlan...

The ones who “start the problem” leading to escalation are always humans.

Rheas actions were a problem her control over humanity was a problem her

Tl; Dr : Rhea is a problem?

I don’t know if you were lured by the NoA lolcalisation campaign, but the Church of Seiros, thus Rhea, never “controlled” the continent.

The CoS had some influence at one point, yes, but that influence didn’t mean zilch when the Emperor could butt out their branch from the Empire, or when one of their branches periodically tries to assassinate the Archbishop - hell, Nopes even lampshades it in Golden Shower : no one in the Alliance gives a fuck about the Church of Seiros.

Much like Deghinsea who was dealt with a shitty hand, Rhea’s options were either to condemn the descendants of the Elite to be Marianne’d and putting a giant target on her own back if she revealed the truth about Crests - or to cook up a lie that, despite her own efforts, would have, anyways, created some sort of social disparity between humans.

Bob Blaiddyd can lift a cart with his pinky, Joe the Carpenter cannot.

Louis Hevring can heal a broken hand by blinking. Maggie the Fisher cannot.

Even if Rhea didn’t say “Crests are blessings from the Goddess”, crested people would be more “special” and powerful than crestless people.

being a victim of genocide was not an issue rhea doing some nice things like Cyril doesn’t negate the fact she did need to be removed

But what if the people advocating for her “removal” uses the exact same arguments used to genocide her people?

Like, “she’s a beast”, “she can’t have power over us”, etc etc?

Of course, one good action doesn’t erase 55 bad ones - but what are those bad ones? And can they “erase” the 55 good ones she did?

It’s also very telling that even when Rhea is “removed”, the game(s) never tackles the issues she had to deal with her bad hand - are they going to reveal to the world what crests are? What Relics are? Are they going to paint Supreme Leader in a good light to stop fanning the flames of war, from some people (who??) who want revenge on her behalf?

I will agree with you on one point, punctuation anon.

Rhea indeed needed to be removed, to make the player feel important at the end of each route, which is also the reason why 3 Nopes cannot end with a happily ever after ending.

#anon #replies #fandom woes #summer discourse saga 2022 edition #FE series #I didn't put a lot of puns in this one because i'm losing my flair #I love this gif

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randomnameless · 2 years

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I think it comes from the same anon, so here is your reply, and for the love of blue cheese, please learn how to use commas, remove double spaces or just press F7 on your keyboard next time you try to write something, it will really help you in the future.

Now, back to your statements :

Fighting against Rhea fits in quite nicely with FE running theme of humanity choosing its own fate rather than being playthings for dragons

Fire Emblem has never been a series of “choosing” fate rather than being “playthings” to lizards.

FE series is all about a blue haired protagonist coming to terms with their duties and expectations, and doing the “right thing” when it is needed/asked.

Also, daily reminder that FE8′s dragons do not expect anything from humanity :)

While the Elibe dragons just wanted to live in peace, but some people didn’t want that :)

Unless you’re talking about some weird kink Nergal (and Eliwood?) was into with his dragon wife, but I am not into that.

heck its been there from the start with dragons starting a problem and humanity escalating into bad behavior loupre the evil dragon who corrupted a bunch of humans

Imagine an asshole doing assholish things suddenly means all members of the race of the asshole are automatically assholes themselves :(

I sure hope it’s not the case, else, following this maxim, Seliph is also someone who forcefully seduces ladies since Bramsel did it first, because they are both humans.

Elibe dragons were attacked by humans, so unless breathing counts as “starting a problem” I don’t know what was expected of them. Archanea dragons, since you seem to like this verse enough to talk about it - but not enough to read about it - degenerated naturally, yes, but the enemity Medeus had towards them is not because humans have round ears, nope, but because humans enslaved “disminished” dragons who became manaketes.

You could even make a point that humans always start to mess with dragons and it bites them in the rear, this is what happens in FE Archanea, FE Elibe, FE Ylisse (since Grima is an artificial, human made construct) and, arguably, in FE Fodlan with all this nonsense about Crests and whatnot.

Hm.

This makes me think of this (translated) line in FE4, between Loptyr who possesses Julius and Seliph :

Yurius (defeated by Celice): “Urrgghhhh… Take note, Celice…! While greed exists in men’s hearts… …I will return…! …You’ve been warned! Gaaahhh…”

FE15′s ending narration :

Only one truth is clear: War will come again, when man grows proud and slothful once more, and its flames will devour one and all, raging until the very earth itself lies scorched and bare of life. For whatever madness lay in the hearts of gods… a darkness deeper still beats wild in the hearts of man…

Medeus from FE12 :

Medeus: GWAH...! WHY......? WHY... HAVE I... BEEN DEFEATED... SO EASILY...? IS THIS... THE POWER... ...OF NAGA'S... BINDING SHIELD...? KNOW THIS, HUMANS... THIS LIGHT IS ONLY A BRIEF RESPITE... SO LONG AS EVIL LURKS WITHIN THE HEARTS OF MAN... SHOULD THIS ACCURSED SHIELD BE LOST, WE SHALL RISE FROM THE DEPTHS OF HELL... DO NOT... EVER FORGET...

Medeus from FE11 :

Medeus: “Nngh…Defeated again…by humans! Know this, Altean prince… That light which surrounds you is only a temporary respite. So long as the darkness in your hearts continues to sustain me…I cannot be…destroyed….. Rrraaahhh!!!!!”

So what can take from the Archanea saga - which created and cemented the themes that inspired all future FEs?

Some dragons are big and scary and powerful, as long as Men have evil/greed/darkness/madness in their hearts, they will continue to exist ; almost as if those bad dragons are the symptoms of an illness caused by Humanity’s folly, or just, humans being humans and asses.

Loptry did not corrupt the first Galle - Jugdral is very clear about how Dragons give magic blood to humans, it is a pact. Galle I wanted power, and he received power. Through the course of the Jugdral games (I recommend playing them, watching a LP or just reading their script on SF, trust me, your posts will finally have some substance!) the player will realise that Julius is the only “corrupted” human by the power of Loptyr, but Manfroy, Bramsel, Chagall, Di Maggio, and even Arvis himself?

Are not corrupted at all by a dragon, they made their own choices and while I know some people really like the concept of agency being removed to justify a fave still being a fave, even if she ends up mindbroken in a certain game, all those Jugdral people? They do what they want, and not what a lizard locked in a book wants.

rhea reminds me of mila and dumas They all actively interfere with and try to shape humanity to fit their ideals but ultimately are detrimental to the humans they seek to protect

DM me if you can create a Tumblr account, because I would really like to play the personalised copy of FE15 and FE16 you received!

In my copy, and the one some person at SF received and transcripted on the site for everyone to access, and the ones all those people on Youtube who made LPs received -

Mila’s biggest “sin” is to have grown lazy and complacent and not have taken enough action regarding the humans of Zofia, allowing Lima to seduce ladies and Desaix to burn a bunch of babies.

Rhea’s interference is so active that

Hubert complains that she didn’t do enough to shape the world as she saw fit,

Nopes!Leicester dgaf about her and don’t even know who she is,

a branch of her organisation tries to kill her for sheltering foreigners.

I suppose she is as active as Leopold’s braincells when he stares at a map.

rhea was scared of humans and claimed without her fodlan was doomed which isnt true

She was so scared of humans that welcomed thousands of them in her home, and even showed her ears to at least one of them!

Seriously, I panick and freeze the second I see a wasp (the animal!), so I would never welcome thousands of them in my home, and show them my ears.

Also, given how suicidal Rhea is, I doubt she would have ever said, or entertained the thought, that Fodlan would be doomed without her - she might have said something similar regarding the Goddess however, but unlike what some peple seriously believe, Rhea and her mother are not one and the same -

ergo, the Church of Seiros is not the Catholic Church! but take this statement with a grain of salt, I don’t have any degree :’(

( I meant Loptous not loupre I confused his name for something else its been a while ) julius was a victim of loptous his mind was changed due to his hatred for humanity which was embodied by the tome which had always been his goal The devs outright said that Loptous was in control of both Gair and Julius, even calling Julius his victim mila and dumas were wrong and their actions hurt humanity 2/2

Are you talking about this?

A: Loputousu, Narga and Holsety held different positions compared to the other dragons. Loputousu’s plan was obvious – “to use Bishop Galle to wreak vengeance on the humans”, which is why he formed a blood pact with Galle. The holy dark tome Loputousu contained Loputousu’s overpowering hatred and resentment towards humans, and was able to control the human who broke its seal (namely Bishop Galle’s descendants, those who inherited large amounts of the original pact-former’s blood). So it was, a human who possessed Loputousu’s strength and will was born.

Loptyr was an ass, and wanted to piss on humans by using Galle’s descendants as meatsuits (note how this only says the humans who were controlled were Galle’s descendants, not the man himself!).

As for Galle 1, Kaga says this about him :

In Genealogy of the Holy War, the ambitious Bishop Galle believed the legend that “drinking the blood of the ancient dragons grants one tremendous power and eternal life” and traveled around the world, finally arriving at the continent of Akaneia. He met with one of the Earth Dragons, Loputousu, who allowed him to form a blood pact.

Julius is indeed a victim of the dragon, but in Julius’s case, since we know jackshit about Galle 2 to Galle X (who was rekt’d by the Crusaders), who is the loser who “engineers” his creation, and who gives him the tome that will corrupt him?

It’s not Loptyr, since Loptyr locked himself in a book. Hint : that person has no scales.

And don’t worry about Duma and Mila being wrong, my personalised copy of FE15 had them acknowledge the errors of their ways, and entrust the fate of Valentia to Alm’n’Celica, but my copy also had a character named Desaix who burnt babies to become King without any draconic interference.

3/2 dragons arent all evil but a dragon calling himself a god and refusing to humble themselves tends to be a sign of bad things

Hopefully not many dragons call themselves gods, especially not in the Archanea verse where that title is given to them by humans, but they never call themselves “gods”.

And I think we went over it in the other post, what do you mean by “humbling” themselves? Truncating their ears? Mutilate themselves to “look like” humans? Get rid of their hearts?

Medeus was so pissed that humans enslaved dragons who accepted to “humble” themselves that he became very angry - unless you’re suggesting that the only way for dragons to “humble” themselves is to become slaves?

from the start onwars the trend had been a dragon starting problems and humans escalating into terrible behavior

You are repeating yourself anon.

( dumas and mila whose human followers reflected their degenerated states)

Are you implying that Duma, in his madness, would have swooned over Zeke and fell in love with him, like his follower Tatiana did ??

Or Nomah is a lazy bum who has a harem of nuns, like Mila ??

it was dumas fault and milas fault later games evened out the dragons and human conflict like in fates ( basically dragons do cause problems like rhea who tried to control humanity

You know, since you put numbers in your asks, there is no need to repeat yourself since I read and reply to them in a bulk. So there is no need to repeat “Mila’n’Duma BaD” in each post, I got your pov the first time!

Fates is, I reckon, not my area of expertise. You would have more chance talking to Fates fans. But from what I remember, Anankos degenerated, he gave his dragon stone to Azura’s ancestor hoping he could sing for him but after some time it didn’t work, and that’s it ?

I don’t think how this evens it out - unless you’re talking about how, in Fates, everything “bad” happens because of Anankos, without any human hand, but it has the very unfortunate implication of saying a race of people is bad because this person who has a mental illness did bad things, and I really do not support this train of thought.

As for Rhea :

It goes without saying, however the reason for Seiros tampering with history was not so she could rule over humanity—it was to minimize war and preserve peace across the land.

The devs don’t agree with you, and despite what the personalised copy you got said, or what NoA advertised, Rhea, and the Church of Seiros, never controlled nor ruled over Fodlan.

Whatever issues Rhea’s secrets and “guidance” cause, the main problems arising in FE16 (and in Nopes) are caused by Agarthans - humans. Not lizards.

---

Actually the picture I picked isn’t very adequate, because after all those burns, you need to stay hydrated anon, and drinking your own salt won’t help you at all.

Maybe you should try water?

#anon #replies #fandom woes #fe series #seriously telling people to drink their tears is mean!#they will need to drink water afterwards to stay hydrated!#I swear people it's better to play or study the games you want to talk about #else you end up bernie'd like this anon #summer discourse saga 2022 edition

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randomnameless · 2 years

Text

Well, I wanted commas, punctuation and Capitalization, and I received everything, but why the bullet points anon, just why? This is isn’t a PowerPoint presentation!

On the Church, Blue Lions or Golden Deer routes, Thales will be the one to attack Byleth and send them plummeting down, triggering the 5-year-long time skip. However, on the Black Eagles/Crimson Flower route, it will be an enraged Rhea instead. Also, towards the end of the Church and Golden Deer playthroughs, Thales commands his Agarthans to stop Byleth and the party at all costs and unleashes Javelins of Light when they lose, even if it means destruction of their base Shambhala — a move eerily mirroring the order to torch Fhirdiad by Rhea/Seiros during the final battle of Crimson Flower. Even the context is pretty similar: they both have lost their second-in-command in the previous battle (Edelgard for Thales, Dimitri for Rhea), find themselves cornered in their last stronghold and try to pull a Taking You with Me. This serves as a Foreshadowing that, at the end of the day, there's somewhat less difference between them than either side would admit:

As two sides of the Gharnef archetype, they are both embittered by being wronged in their pasts — specifically, having significant parts of their nations destroyed by the enemy — and seek for revenge, manipulating events from the shadows.

They both see the humanity as foolish and incapable of getting along on their own and deem themselves and themselves alone worthy to rule over them, albeit with different approaches to their rule — Rhea tries to show more benevolence in her reign, with mixed results, while Thales's vision is much more openly tyrannical and malevolent.

Either of them is willing to go to any lengths to achieve their goals, disregarding well-being or potential harm done to those they see as their tools: Thales subjected Edelgard and her siblings to terrible experimentation in a ruthless pursuit of having a warrior empowered with two Crests, while Rhea was willing to go all the way to see Byleth become the new incarnation of her mother Sothis, even at the potential risk of them losing their personality.

In the end, while Rhea had far better reasons behind her grievances, being obsessed over them had a detrimental effect on her sanity, putting her at times dangerously close to her Arch-Enemy.

I think you wanted to highlight the similarities between Uncle and Rhea, so let’s tackle this mammoth !

Thales using Nukes to destroy Shambala is pretty different from Rhea BBQ’ing the Kingdom, because Rhea’s manoeuver is, albeit wonky, supposed to slow down the Imperial Army.

Rhea isn’t planning to die here, nor to “take down her enemies with her”, she wants to win and will use any baby eating tactic to do so, because Tru Piss.

Rhea’s second in command has always been Seteth, not Dimitri who is/was her ally, ditto for Uncle, his second in command was... Myson? Cleobulus? idk, Supreme Leader was only a pawn (thinking she was an ally).

At the end of the day, there is a difference between them, while Tru Piss!Rhea used a tactic to slow down the Imperial Army and divide it in smaller groups, Thales prefered to erase everyone in Shambala, let them be on his side or on the other. A desperate baby eating Rhea doesn’t kill her own allies, a desperate Uncle kills them.

Rhea stopped seeking revenge when she put down her bottle of hairdye.

When she was Seiros the Warrior seeking revenge on Nemesis, even going by the most uncharitable reading of events, she did not manipulate “events” from the shadows, she was at the forefront, establishing the Empire and fighting together with Wilhelm, as the leader of the Church that was formed around her.

I also do not think “being the survivor of a genocide” and “being sour bcs cannot nuke the world anymore” are two sides of the Gharnef archetype though.

FWIW, Rhea is closer to a Lehran Archetype.

Make a LP of your personalised copy on YouTube, Thales never wanted to “rule over humans”.

Thales wants revenge against Beasts (Nabateans and surface humans), he doesn’t want to rule over them he most likely wants to kill them all.

Also, Rhea underwent some character development, thinking, in her FEH alt that humans couldn’t rule over themselves without the goddess’s guidance, then, per the words exhanged during the covenant of the red blood and white sword, thinking they can rule over themselves and work for a better tomorrow, to fall back in depression thinking she does a shit job as a guide, and only Sothis can rule/guide the wayward land.

Despite what some people with degrees affirm, the Church of Seiros isn’t the Catholic Church, so Rhea and Sothis are actually two different entities -> Rhea thinking only her mother can guide the land actually means Rhea thinks Rhea cannot guide the land.

Also, Rhea never wanted or assumed any role as the “ruler” of humans, she left that annoying thing to Wilhelm Paul Hresvelg, the dude who became the First Emperor.

How is Rhea willing to go to any lengths to achieve her goals, when the rite of rising failed because she didn’t want to bleed the apostles to death? Also, despite Jerry’s claims, Rhea never tried to find him during all those years, even as she knew he disappeared with Sitri’s child.

Whatever Rhea thought Billy was is muddied at best, she seems to think they are an amnesiac Sothis, then another being with Sothis’s powers, and then a vessel that will be able to merge with her powers.

Was she thinking Sothis would put a Yune - Miccy-Yune was able to bless weapons so she shared Yune’s powers to some extent - or Billy would be erased and cease to exist?

Whoever knows, but ultimately Rhea learns that Billy is their own person. Not Sothis but with amnesia, or a Sothis without amnesia, nope. Billy is Billy.

In the end, while Rhea had far better reasons behind her grievances, being obsessed over them had a detrimental effect on her sanity, putting her at times dangerously close to her Arch-Enemy.

We don’t have any intel on Uncle’s mental state, and Rhea being obsessed with reuniting with her mother is ultimately the reason why Fodlan was saved.

No matter what, even at her baby-eating lowest, the devs took care to paint Rhea as opposed to Thales, they are not close at all.

Even in Supreme Bullshit - Thales wants to kill his enemies with a single spell, but Rhea, being able to discern who is the most dangerous and important enemy, ditches Supreme Leader and Barney to only focus on Thales.

Two Sides of the Same Coin they are not.

#summer discourse saga 2022 edition #fandom woes #bullet point anon #FE16 #Uncle and Rhea are not similar #Uncle hates humans while Rhea loves them #Nopes even reveals Rhea knew Barney was an agarthan but she didn't took any action against them due to their heritage #however Uncle racially profiles Nabateans and turns them in weapons when he has the occasion

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