Something I really love about queerness is how somebody's sexuality merges and bleeds into their gender.

I think for some, it can be, in part, a reclamation of the idea of being punished for not truly being your gender or not being enough as-is. A lesbian who's punished for not being a "woman" by cishet society can reclaim themself by declaring they aren't a woman but a lesbian, lesbiangender, in short.

Queerness in any capacity is often (though not always and not across-the-board) punished as a failure in some way. You're a second-class man or woman, a second-class person, depending on many factors. Reclaiming that can be really relieving and cathartic

Hot take but I don't fully agree with openly queer actors being the only ones allowed to play queer characters. I'm not saying that an aggressively heterosexual actor who has openly stated his non queerness should play a queer character. But that an actor who may or may not be closeted and still wants to portray a queer character should be allowed to do so without being forced out if the closet. This doesn't apply to cis actors playing trans characters imo. There are a lot of trans actors who don't get big breaks and it's something that's harder to be in the closet about in the industry.

And yea this is triggered by some criticism of Garfield's vaguely queer comments and actions by some people who insist that he's baiting people but here's the thing -and he's just one example of this issue- he hasn't ever explicitly said he has no interest in men, he's actively discussing queer identities of beloved characters, he is constantly talking about falling in love with and being in love with the person regardless of the gender. This man was forced to respond to how he labelled himself and his comments felt more like he was being forced to figure out his identity on the spot, that since he only felt explicit physical attraction to women he was probably het but that he was open to the experience of falling in love with men which means he's more of a panromantic person and therefore by default on the queer spectrum regardless of sexual attraction.

You aren't queer because you fit a neat little nicely labelled box, you are queer because you don't fit the hetersexual, heteroromantic, cis side of things.

This irks me anytime its brought up because I'm very uncomfortable lavelling myself too. I am attracted to not only female identifying but also nb individuals. But I also don't have any real sexual attraction to anyone just an emotional overflowing love for the people. And I am constantly expected to put myself in a neatly labelled box even though I don't owe anyone a coming out. People should not be forced to out themselves for their career. I am working on a phd on queer identities and often people keep criticising me for writing about queer people as a cis-het when I'm neither. I just don't feel that my queerness is anyone else's business. I am allowed to work towards something I connect to and I feel deeply about without having to lay out my identity.

Hi! I just saw your post about asexuality and wanted to share for a sec!! I'm a trans queer guy who happens to be ace as well. I've not thought about it much actively, but I've never really considered myself as part of the lgbt community for my asexuality mainly because it's something I could keep to myself. Being trans was obvious for a while and will always impact me visibly. If I'm in a queer relationship, that's visible. Both have brought me far more strife than my asexuality (although with what you mentioned in your post, I'm sure my situation factors into that). I guess I've always separated my identities; if I want to talk about ace stuff (which is rare, to be fair) I'd go to aspec specific spaces. Otherwise, I go to more generally queer spaces. I mean this in a fully respectful way because I'm interested, but why do you group your "aceness" with your lesbian identity? I have interacted with other ace people outside of the internet and their perspectives wildly vary. I will say anecdotally that the "het" aces I know that consider themselves lgbt for their asexuality often speak over me on queer and trans issues. Personally, I feel there exists a deeper systemic issue regarding trans and queer discrimination than ace discrimination which is part of why I don't immediately consider my asexuality as lgbt or those heteroromantic people as lgbt. In another regard, asexuality obviously is a sexuality (as you mentioned), but I've found with the way my identity blends together, it just makes more sense to talk about that specific part of it with other ace people. I think I see the ace spectrum as a separate thing to measures of the types of people I'm attracted to and the type of person I am. Levels of attraction vs. identity and types of attraction in terms of identity, ya know?? I hope this doesn't sound aggressive!! I really want to hear more about your perspective as a fellow ace person. Most ace people I do regularly speak with who see themselves as lgbt choose that community because that's where they first learned about the label. Feel free to disregard all of this because I know it's long!!!

hi! thanks for sharing! you brought up a lot of good points so i’m gonna try to acknowledge/respond to all of them best i can! for the record, i think it’s worth pointing out that we’re both ace, but since it’s a spectrum there’s a really good chance that even we don’t experience it the same way, which is why discussion amongst the actual asexual community is super meaningful compared to discussion amongst allo people who have a very limited knowledge of asexuality to start with. all that being said, here’s my perspective on things! 

I've not thought about it much actively, but I've never really considered myself as part of the lgbt community for my asexuality mainly because it's something I could keep to myself. Being trans was obvious for a while and will always impact me visibly. If I'm in a queer relationship, that's visible.

that’s fair! i agree that it’s something we can keep to ourself, but why do we have to (or choose to) keep it to ourself? the why probably differs for most aspec people. in my case, i’m pretty vocal about my asexuality (on twitter at least), but in real life where i’m surrounded by straight cishet allo people, i keep it to myself because they wouldn’t understand it in the slightest, many of them would think i’m just trying to be special, etc. not only am i assumed to be straight (i’m not), but i’m also assumed to be allosexual (i’m not).

visibility is an interesting topic too because i think that’s when we veer into conversations about things like “straight-passing,” “cis-passing,” etc. at home i’m mostly still in the closet, but my identity is still very much real. it may not always be visible, but it’s definitely there! a visibly queer relationship is just one way our identities are put on display. but even then, sometimes two lgbtq+ individuals can be in a relationship and it’s not visibly queer — for example, two (or even one) bi people in a m/f relationship. to people outside of the community especially, it doesn’t look like a queer relationship, but it very much is.

all that to say, asexuality often isn’t visible per se, but there are many other identities that also lack visibility under certain circumstances, in a sense. that’s why i don’t personally consider visibility very much!

Both have brought me far more strife than my asexuality (although with what you mentioned in your post, I'm sure my situation factors into that). I guess I've always separated my identities; if I want to talk about ace stuff (which is rare, to be fair) I'd go to aspec specific spaces. Otherwise, I go to more generally queer spaces.

i can’t speak on your trans/queer experience specifically (and i’m sorry for the trouble people have given you for them), but this is also where i would personally say that just because asexuality doesn’t cause you as much strife as your being trans/queer, doesn’t mean that it’s not important or any less valid as part of your overall identity. asexuality aside for a moment, the lgbtq+ community has been historically oppressed and discriminated against, basically even before its official inception. this may not be realistic, but let’s say that 100 years from now, we're finally free of that oppression/discrimination. we don’t suddenly lose our place in the lgbtq+ community, do we? oppression doesn’t have anything to do with the validity of our respective identities, if that makes sense. other identities aren’t more or less valid depending on how oppressed they are. that’s my opinion on that! and like you mentioned, i think our personal situations definitely do affect our experiences in general. 

when it comes to talking about ace stuff, i think the point is that lots of us within the lgbtq+ community sometimes separate our identities in different ways, even those that aren’t ace, because there are often specific spaces within the community itself. sometimes lesbians need lesbian specific spaces, sometimes bi people need bi specific spaces, sometimes trans people need trans specific spaces, etc. it’s always much easier and more validating to talk to people who share your experiences. like you said, there are also aspec specific spaces! and yet, everyone within one of those specific spaces can have very different identities. as an ace lesbian, i might engage in a lesbian specific space without ever needing to talk about my asexuality, or engage in an aspec specific space without ever needing to talk about my lesbian identity. i’m not necessarily talking about every part of my identity all the time, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there. 

I mean this in a fully respectful way because I'm interested, but why do you group your "aceness" with your lesbian identity? I have interacted with other ace people outside of the internet and their perspectives wildly vary.

i think that for me specifically, i feel like my asexuality plays a veeery big part in how i experience attraction in general. i used to id as bisexual, but after a while i realized i wasn’t attracted to men at all and so began to id as lesbian. it wasn’t until then that i realized i was also ace, and that honestly threw me for a loop because for a while it made me wonder if i was bi after all (i’m not, but i thought about it for a while!). technically speaking, there are other labels i could use to describe my attraction, such as sapphic asexual or homoromantic asexual, although i think for the latter sometimes it depends on how a person feels about the split attraction model and how it can be applied. 

either way! it’s my experience that asexuality significantly influences how a person experiences attraction compared to allosexuals. i’d say that’s the main reason i “group” my aceness with my lesbian identity, because to me they’re intertwined.  

you’re right though about how the perspectives of ace people wildly vary! it’s super interesting to hear from other ace people what their thoughts are. i think for me it comes down to the fact that some ace people may not need a space specifically for their asexuality, and that’s okay! like you’ve mentioned, they typically don’t experience the same level of discrimination, at least not in the same ways, and sometimes it wholly depends on the kind of people you’re around and whether or not you’re out. many ace people do experience discrimination though and desperately do need that space, and i don’t see why the lgbtq+ community shouldn’t be for them as well, considering. there are certainly differences between issues involving asexuality and other identities like gay, lesbian, trans, etc. but there are differences between issues involving specifically those identities as well, and certain similarities between all of them.

I will say anecdotally that the "het" aces I know that consider themselves lgbt for their asexuality often speak over me on queer and trans issues. Personally, I feel there exists a deeper systemic issue regarding trans and queer discrimination than ace discrimination which is part of why I don't immediately consider my asexuality as lgbt or those heteroromantic people as lgbt. In another regard, asexuality obviously is a sexuality (as you mentioned), but I've found with the way my identity blends together, it just makes more sense to talk about that specific part of it with other ace people.

i know how frustrating it is to have people talk over you about issues that directly impact you and not them, and i’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that. i do think however that this sort of thing happens even within the lgbtq+ community all the time. this is in no way a justification or excuse for the people who have spoken over you, but just a comparison. i’ve seen tons of conversations (usually on social media) where lesbians will speak over bi women on bi issues, non-lesbians will speak over lesbians on lesbian issues, cis people will speak over trans people on trans issues, etc. it’s frustrating in any case, and it typically has to do with the fact that there’s a certain level of ignorance for almost everyone when it comes to an identity that’s not theirs. (am i making sense??) i even see allo people speak over aspec people on ace issues all the time as well. tldr - i’m not saying there’s not a specific underlying issue with the “het” aces who have spoken over you on those issues, but you can definitely draw comparisons to certain circumstances elsewhere within the community.

i 100% agree with your point that there is a much deeper systemic issue regarding trans and queer discrimination than ace discrimination. i think my view on that pretty much goes back to what i said earlier about how i don’t think discrimination or oppression determines the validity of an identity as an lgbtq+ identity. regardless, like you said about how you feel that it makes more sense to talk about your own asexuality with other ace people, i think sometimes it just comes down to how we perceive/experience our own identities! i often feel more isolated due to my asexuality more than i feel isolated due to my being a lesbian. that may not be the case for all aspec people, but it really impacts me personally.

I think I see the ace spectrum as a separate thing to measures of the types of people I'm attracted to and the type of person I am. Levels of attraction vs. identity and types of attraction in terms of identity, ya know??

that’s also fair! i think in my mind it’s just that aceness is part of my identity/is its own independent identity regardless of who i’m romantically attracted to. my asexuality would still exist whether i’m also a lesbian or not. i just happen to personally combine my identities (aka ace lesbian) because they’re both there and they influence each other. 

Most ace people I do regularly speak with who see themselves as lgbt choose that community because that's where they first learned about the label.

i’m glad you brought this up at the very end too!! i first learned about the label from the lgbtq+ community as well, but it took forever for me to realize that it described me. in my experience, asexuality is crazy misunderstood both in and out of the community. it took me weeks to months of doing my own research on asexuality to understand what it really is, and even then that there’s a spectrum. in regards to everything about this post, i think where an ace person falls on the spectrum might be a big factor that plays into what their experience is like and whether they feel they need a space like the lgbtq+ community. either way, the fact that most people first hear about asexuality from the community and the fact that we have our own flag and everything really speaks to all this. why not choose the lgbtq+ community since it’s already here, that’s where asexuality is often talked about, and that’s where people understand what it’s like to experience attraction that differs from the norm? 

anyway those are my thoughts!! it’s nice to be talking to someone else who’s actually ace rather than feeling like i’m having to preach to allosexuals who don’t think my asexuality matters period :’)