#like theyre very much not the issue and its weird to shift the blame onto them for playing the game | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

papirouge · 2 years

Note

im not the other anon but i also orbit radfem blogs because some blogs do have some pretty good takes and i actually agree with them in many things relating to women and men.

and yeah, while i do think that the trad style its pretty cool and dont have anything against it (one of they things i will never agree with radfems is that being a houswife is degrading), a lot of this blogs have pretty weird takes.

like for example ive seen some blogs claim that if women acted more feminine, or lady like, then most men would start behaving like gentlemen, and that feminity inspires masculinity. but like why is it womens responsability how men behave. why is it not the other way around, that if men acted more like gentlemen then women would behave more lady like. in fact, considering that men/masculinity is related to leadership and taking initiative and taking risks, wouldn't it make more sense if it was up to them to change things?

also, its weird to me that these people claim that guys who behave like this are really gentlemen. if they were, then they would always behave like that regardless of the woman theyre interacting with. a true kind person, for example, would be kind to all people even when their kindness is not being returned. a man who only behaves like a gentleman with ladylike women is no different that men who only are nice with women they find fuckable.

also, acting like a lady or feminine wont guarantee that men will treat you well, or even decently. i have a friend whos very ladylike both in behaviours and appearence, and some men still act rude, or creepy, or misogynistic towards her. and yet she doesnt change how she behaves towards them, because its a part of who she is.

like the whole idea of men being naturally loving and protecting towards women would be true in a perfect world. but we live in a fallen world. and many men nowadays think its entitled of women to aspire to be prtected, and even being treated with respect (i once lurked on male subreddits about this subject and the things ive read 🤢)

You perfectly summed it up anon. I just can't bear with these traditionalist who love cussing against feminism being the reason women can't behave, but totally disregard how their male fellas behave. I have yet to see one (1) tradman on this hellsite calling out tradfetish blog. One.

I once reblogged a post saying "Feminitity may make you feel accepted, but it won't make you respected" and a tradfem took offense and reblogged saying "that's not about tradfemintity though"....and it actually was lol.

Do these anti feminist/tradfem think women wearing dresses and behaving "correctly" (=without feminism) stopped men from raping them? Belittling them? Thinking they were inferior? Had no souls? Are they that delusional?

That's why these tradmen arguing feminism killled female/male relationships are stupid and deflecting the actual issue at hand purposely. They'll shift the blame onto women rather they reflecting on their own behavior and Historical responsibility. I thought masculinity was about responsibility and taking lead? Then why are they expecting women to take the lead in trying to balance out the male/female relationships? 🤔

Feminism didn't appear out of a vacuum. 99% of anti feminist women fawning over good ol'days when women didn't have a bank account and didn't have much prospect available for financial stability beside marriage wouldn't survive if they truly lived in this era. I get where they come from because our modern world is scary and fantasizing about an idealized past sounds alluring, but they are grown adult and need to get a grip. Some of them are doing way to much to the point of being delusional. They are adults in their 20s but still act & talk like 12.y.o girls dazzled by Disney princess-worship propaganda.... That's sad.

Netflix brainwashed them into thinking that vikings were hot and virility model for men when their were hordes of belligerent violent savages terrorizing Europe. that's right, no more "teheheee viking so shekshi☺️" when you most likely would get your skull axed for simply being on their way. I'm glad Christianism civilized them.

You're sooooo on point about men seeking for reason to disrespect women lol "if women were more xxx I would be more kind to them" how about being kind to anyone, Jason? I mean, if I was only nice to men meeting my preferences, I would be nice to 1% of men I encounter🥴

Reddit is a cesspool of degenerates. I live for the day someone hack it and doxx all the men posting/subscribing on subs dedicated to sexually degrade women. It's interesting to see how men behave when no women are around and I wish more male worshipping tradfem were aware of it. That's not a misandrist radfem conspiracy. Interesting too how there's no female equivalent of r/jailbait r/strugglefucking or r/incestporn 🤔 it's almost as if women didn't have the same entitlement for sexually degrading the opposite sex as men do. Why do tradmen don't talk about this issue to repair men/women relationship and rehabilitate trust?

I won't stop thinking male positivity is stupid as long as men collectively don't start calling out these things. The only men deserving support are those doing actually shit to improve shit - not those simply existing. Male posi need to stop praising mediocrity because they breed entitled lazy narcissists. They are not helping.

There's no attack against masculinity. Once you stop watching Netflix, social medias or the internet and come back on the real world, men are still thriving. Look at the top world companies CEO. Look at world leaders. Look at the billlionaires. Women wearing pants and not marrying didn't change anything. These people need to get a grip and stop blaming feminists to justify their compulsive need for male worshipping.

#answered #tradfem #tradmen

9 notes · View notes

frenchphobic · 3 years

Text

long fucking post on why a c!dream is a shitty person and probably should not have a redemption because it is unpog

honestly i just want to refute dream apologists thats why im making this post. i think that dream as a villain is interesting but i think that trying to make him out to be secretly a good guy is just bad ngl. also /roleplay and all

tw for abuse and mentions of suicide

dream as a villain

dream is a villain. he is chaotic evil according to wilbur, deliberately does not stream to appear less sympathetic (and yet), and is set up as an antagonist to tommy who bears the title ‘hero’. dream is not a good person, no matter how you look at it or try to justify his actions.

‘but he wants to unite everyone to be a big family :((’ the ends dont justify the means believe it or not. having a vaguely positive goal does not excuse the actions you’ve done. it also goes hand and hand with saying dream is correct for punishing tommy the way he did because he acted up. if i socked you across the face and then suddenly said ‘sorry there was a roach on ur face’ does that make it okay? probably not i still punched you, enacting an unnecessary amount of violence. thats a very simple analogy i will admit and there are more complex comparisons. another example off the top of my head is say a child just scribbled all over you walls with crayons. would hitting them be a justified answer? if u said hes thats really fucked of u go seek help u loon. violence as a punishment is very toxic, just because it gets the job done does not mean it is okay. at the end of the day, you still committed this act and the harm you caused is real, having a good motive doesnt suddenly make it okay.

‘but tommy causes all of the conflict’ the disk war wasnt even caused by tommy, it was sapnap and then tommy got involved. and the reason why tommy even caused conflict was because of the discs, because he wanted them back. and most of the time there was a level of antagonism from another party, such as schlatt exiling him, dream taking the disks in the first place, dream threatening l’manberg. and if dream wanted to end the conflict so badly, why didnt he just give tommy back his disks? tommy upfront said everything started with the disks, so he wants them back so he could end the conflict. notice how after tommy got his disks back he has been staying out of conflict, apologizing to everyone, and the only bad thing hes done is try to scam people but everyone does that. this would have been the most peaceful option, yet dream chose the path that would further antagonize tommy which then draws everyone else into conflict. why did dream need to have leverage over tommy so badly? why did he want to hold power over tommy so badly? its because of control, and that’s ultimately dreams end goal. sure he wants a big server family, but would said family have a free will?

‘but dream is sad’ the thing is dream is completely at fault for everything that happened to him. he pushed away sapnap (and george ig). he tried to take control over the server and their possessions. literally everything that happened to tommy. literally everything involving ranboo. villains can be sympathetic, i am not arguing against that. but it does not mean that they should be left off the hook. that doesnt mean u should ignore the shit theyve done because ‘oh no theyre sad’ because it doesnt make anything better. dream had this shit coming for him.

now people also skirt around calling dream an abuser. which is fair ig, its a very loaded word. its much easier to say manipulated. that being said, dream can classify as abusive. and no, tommy is not abusive. abuse is about control and a power imbalance. dream has power over tommy, but tommy does not have power over dream, at least not in the way dream does. he’s taking back power to stand up for himself, dream uses power to control.

the reasons i listed for why dream is from the Domestic Abuse Intervention Project so if u want a source on that, there you go.

using coercion or threats: dream often threatened tommy, such as the pit thing and often employed violence on him. while normally this could be attributed to Normal Minecraft Player Go Smack. minecraft mechanics cannot always translate to real world since violence is pretty normal in minecraft however we also need to consider the context of the scene. dream gave an order, tommy refused, dream applies violence, tommy submitted. thats why its a threat, it has tangible effects that can correlate to real life.

using intimidation: dream blew up logsteadshire as a punishment. dream also destroyed tommys items anytime he visited. dream also hit tommy with his axe i believe. he killed mushroom henry, one of tommys pets.

Using Emotional Abuse: dream guiltripped the shit out of tommy for just hiding things and pinning the blame on tommy for just wanting his own private items. he definitely played mind games on tommy, pretending to be his friend. honestly i probably dont even need to go as in depth because it was so obvious.

Using Isolation: putting him in exile in the first place. destroying the bether portal so no one could visit tommy anymore. i really dont think i need to expand upon that.

Minimizing, Denying, and Blaming: dream in tommys stream when he got trapped said that exile wasnt that bad. he does shift the blame onto tommy for logsteadshire being blown up, even though dreams reaction was entirely unjustified for not listening and hiding.

Using Economic Abuse: see this is where i attempt to parallel minecraft mechanics to real life. obviously, there is no monetary system in place, so when i mean economic, i will use valuables such as armor, food, etc in place of currency. the idea behind economic abuse is to limit the victim’s resources so that they are dependent on the abuser and cannot escape. dream only really allowed tommy to have the armor he gave him while not giving access to armor so he does not regain a sense of power, and in the prison stream, dream holds all the potatoes which puts him in a position of power over tommy. this argument is more ambiguous i feel cause the whole minecraft mechanics thing is kinda weird so u don’t necessarily have to take this part in.

i feel like i need to emphasize this very strongly because dream is not a good person. abuse cannot and should not be a response to someone. its an awful mentality to have. i just want to prove the point that dream is not a good person, his reasons absolutely do not justify his actions.

what makes a good redemption

redemption arcs are tricky. when done right they are great. when done poorly, its a slap in the face. rn im going to establish a formula to what makes a good redemption with an example.

the most well known example of a good redemption is zuko from atla. first, its the magnitude of what theyve done and why. zuko did commit some shitty actions, since he was in a position of power in the fire nation but its because he is a child being abused and wanted to regain honor. zukos real awful acts was season 1 and the whole betrayal thing. thats not to say that zukos actions suddenly are okay, he did shitty things. but its something that can be traced to a higher entity or seem less malicious then the other villains. the thing also about the magnitude of actions is that there is a certain point of atrocities that there is no redemption. some people simply cannot be redeemed because the actions they commit are so ingrained in their character or the action itself has serious moral issues that it would just be wrong.

the next is acknowleding what they did was wrong. a genuine reflection on the self and analyzing what they did and why it was not okay. zuko realized what he did to uncle iroh was bad for example. he turned his back on his father, realizing he didnt and shouldnt seek acknowledgment from someone as heinous as him. its pointing out your actions and going ‘hey, this wasnt right i should not have done this’ and not even excusing ur actions. its also going straight for the root of the problem and figuring out to stamp it from the source. just because a character is sad does not mean they are reflecting, sometimes they are attempting to garner pity. it has to be direct and clear acknowledgement of the injustice.

and finally, an important part about redemption arcs is the actual redemption part. its when you make amends. zuko made amends with katara by trying to help her get revenge, he fought against the fire nation and tried to make things more peaceful in his rule. he apologized to iroh. an important part of the amends section is that it does have to be a genuine desire to change and become a better person, not to change a person’s perception of you. the thing is u cant expect a person youve hurt to forgive you. you cant expect people to be sympathetic towards you nor should u attempt to make urself sympathetic. u shouldnt be expecting a pat on the back or an award. redemption is about internal and character change.

why dream should not be redeemed

ive already established the key points to a good redemption (imo) but heres where dream falls short. his actions are extremely heavy so redemption may not even really be possible. abuse is not something you can wave off so it does cross to the point of fucked up. acknowledgement of what he did was wrong? all he said was that he changed, yet never explained why he changed or was too vague. he needed to label specifically what he did and bring it up. attempting to make amends? he’s been doing the exact opposite in fact he continues to manipulate tommy and ranboo. its not a genuine change. he is still repeating the cycle and has given no indication of ceasing. at the moment he does not have any signs of redemption.

and the thing is most of the attention around a dream redemption comes from either justifying his motives (which i do want to emphasize does not make anything suddenly okay) and because he is sad in prison sad face. these are not good reasons. its gonna pain me severely to bring this up but snape from harry potter does have some form of sad character ig yet he very much abused his authority to bully children as old as 11 just because he said ‘aight gonna die’ doesnt suddenly make his general bigotry and abuse suddenly okay there is a threshold. again im so sorry for using harry potter as an example none were coming to mind and i needed a popular one i do not like harry potter please dont say i do i would pass away.

and the last thing to consider is the audience. keep in mind that the audience is composed of minors and while yes there are adults, minors are the main component of the fandom. keep in mind that there are quite a few people who can relate to tommys character because they might be in the same position or have gone through his experiences. tell me what kind of message does it send to that audience that abusers can be redeemed. this is not a narrative u should push to this audience in these situations and the writers are seemingly aware of it. remember how in exile tommy spiraled into a suicidal mentality? consider how fucked of a message it would be if he just committed suicide instead of escaping abuse and attempting to recover from his experiences. tommy did an excellent job in not going that route and having a message of ‘it will not get better’. its the same thing here. victims are not obligated to care for or forgive their abuser, and portraying an abuser as sympathetic might fuck with the message a lot, even change their perception in that ‘oh, maybe my abuser was right, maybe they had a reason for treating me the way they did’. this is not to say that every victim watching this will internalize this message, but people also look up to these characters. there can be a degree of influence from the story onto oneself and thats the dangerous part.

conclusion

all in all dream is a shitbag asshole and probably shouldnt get a redemption because it would not be pog thanks for coming to my ted talk.

#dream smp #dsmp #tommyinnit #dreamwastaken

62 notes · View notes

we8comic · 3 years

Note

i was the anon who sent the eyeroll dream thing and genuinely actually do you have any feelings about like dream and by extension sapnap trying to assert themselves into pop off trio streams

because i’m not gonna lie as much as i love dream and sapnap and yeah the going dark thing was funny, they do have this problem where they show up and get confrontational about not being invited and when they do that shit and put everyone on the spot about “being left out” it’s very weird to me you should just accept they want to have a stream alone right..? i was wondering what you thought about that and whether you think they genuinely feel threatened about being left out

like let george hang out with his other friends maybe i doubt they’d do this if it was quackity and karl with anyone else or even just them alone

also i’m too much of a coward to discuss this on my own main idk if you know who this is but i have a feeling it’s smth you agree with and it’s veryyy nice to see someone calling sapnap and dream out for their occasional annoying and stream ruining behaviour

sorry this is so long!! you also totally don’t have to answer btw lmao i just notice the same frustration sometimes through your liveblogging whenever sapnap and dream crash a stream

anonymous: wait wait to add onto my last ask it was the biggest power move for karl to announce that the sex havers only consists of george karl and quackity and i really felt like that was a hint drop from him, i think jokingly adding that anyone else is “a friend of sex havers” was to lessen the impact but i still enjoy the fact that he asserted (and has been asserting) that their group when they’re together is an exclusive trio

i felt it that time he was like yeah well. we were the original sex havers groupchat and i feel like sapnap and dream kinda wriggled themselves into being included like i hope none of this sounds mean i just really want dream and sapnap to understand it’s okay to not be included in everything

oh MAN do i have feelings 😩 dream and sapnap are almost comically emasculated by any little thing that makes them feel inferior and that includes being excluded from things. and i personally feel they have no right to get angry about being left out and to then show up onto their streams to express that theyre upset in front of an audience of thousands. i say this because the other three ALWAYS mention that they dm'd them and invited them to the activity or otherwise said they had reason to believe dream or sapnap wouldnt be available (and even outside of that, theyre not required to tell the other about every single one of their plans lol)

i think getting confrontational about it on stream in the middle of planned activities is childish. take a look at bad for example, who also isnt a part of the trio but doesnt get confrontational about having been left out. the trio is full of lighthearted people, bad came into the call and they asked him if he wanted to join in the game they were playing and he did and that was it. compare that to dream or sapnap and when they join calls. theyre consistently immediately accusatory. the trio will take it in stride (cus again. an audience of over 100k is watching. its really not the time and place to whine and get mad about feeling left out, those are convos to have in private), theyll throw some facts like "we invited you" "you said you were busy" "we already had this planned for a while" etc., then theyll offer an invitation to join. this invitation is usually met w quite frankly STUPID debate about "well why wasnt i included in the first place" like dude. read the room, youre streamers for a living, talk about these things off stream like an adult. plus they literally already said you could join if you still wanted to, whats the problem, why drag it out for longer than it needs to be. it just stalls the stream and their plans and shifts the lighthearted tone into somethin a little more careful (however briefly it might be, it didnt need to happen)

i LOVE karl for saying that theyre their own group and joking that their attitude is why theyre friends of sex havers. it felt like a lighthearted way to lift the mood again and kinda say "hey, we do our own things sometimes, chill"

i cant speak for whether i think they genuinely feel threatened about being left out cus not only do i not know them personally, theyre also not ccs i focus energy on (thats for quackity and george 😌) i DO think that with all the times theyve brought it up when crashing the trio streams, they should really by this point have talked about it off screen. it feels almost like they use the audience as a safety net to avoid the consequence of intruding/being mean cus whoever theyre talking to has to keep a certain face and therefore cant say certain things (might even hazard a guess that off screen they probably still dont REALLY talk about it)

i dont blame them for wanting to be a part of things their friends are doing but i blame them for the way they express that. it makes the atmosphere tense by making it far too personal for something thats visible to a live public audience.

i know theyre around the same age, but the way dream an sapnap handle conflict on screen IS immature vs the way quackity and karl do. quackity and karl have been entertainers for A WHILE and understand how to stay entertaining and theyre far more aware of their audience and the overall mood and how to handle problems and conflict without things getting too tense. dream and sapnap (sapnap moreso) have a habit of being confrontational and not lightening the mood and instead continuing to be mad, making everyone else in the call responsible for the energy of the stream instead of them themselves dealing with the tenseness theyve caused. it makes things awkward and im always hoping itll end fast and that theyd please for the love of god talk about it off stream

thats worded a little dramatically cus its rarely ever THAT bad, but it would be SO much better if it just didnt happen yknow. if they understood that they dont have to be a part of everything their other friends do AND if they understood that getting mad on stream and stalling their plans and souring the vibe isnt the best way to handle it.

tl;dr: theyre their own group who do their own things and arent required to share their plans w the rest of their friends (and usually they dm in advance anyway asking if they wanna be a part of their plans). dream and sapnap feeling excluded isnt something they should get overly heated about on stream (its an immature way to bring up the issue especially without ever offering a solution). these are problems they should talk about off stream where the trio dont have to be so conscious about their audience and its perception. i love karl and quackity for emphasizing that theyre their own group with their own plans and joking that the way they act is WHY theyre not part of the group. i think they deal w it as well as they can and i think dream and sapnap need to learn just a little more spacial awareness and how to handle conflict

edit: quackity/karl/george should be fully able to have their own stream together without anyone else intruding. dream and sapnap arent their bosses, they dont need to run all their plans by them first. if they want to have streams with just their own established group, they should be able to have that.

#answered #time and time again it shows just how much more experience karl and quackity have w being in front of an audience #and handling things accordingly #and george's age shows cus hes so patient #and it helps that hes not one to take things too personal #and in comparison to dream and sapnap. george seems more constantly aware of the audience #dream and sapnap take things so personally which isnt an inherent problem but they just dont.. deal with it well #anyway! either way they can all handle it :] theyre all good friends #and im sure if shit got really bad theyd be adult enough to hash it out so it didnt get that bad again

7 notes · View notes