#like at least give me a reaction from qrow I punched a child because my immortal bestfriend lied to me branwen when his niece lied to James
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I feel the need to hear your opinion on this since this is something I've been thinking about recently, and it's how crwby handles complex relationships/abuse in their show... It's infuriating.
I can't tell if they genuinely think they are writing this in a good way or if they know they're half asss-ing it and don't care since the fandom will eat it up anyways. Two big examples that come to mind for me in the last volume are emerald & cinder and whitley & jacques. In both instances the the victim never gets a moment of closure or a moment of breaking away from their abuser, nor are either victims allowed to show any sort of 'hesitance' (for a lack of a better term) related to their abuse.
Emerald (despite being all over cinder before Midnight), just conveniently forgets about her for the finale. Same for whitley. He just completely forgets about jacques (the man who manipulated him from birth) the moment weiss hugs him. On a shallow level, watching a victim pay no mind to their abuser is satisfying, but it being so immediate is just unrealistic and takes away from the pain that we are supposed to think these characters have suffered.
One of the worst things about suffering from abuse is how is affects the victims even when they have left the abusive relationship, but crwby seems to want to erase that completely from characters who should experience that for plot convenience.
It seems like the lesson learned from this is "if you were abused, just get over it and be convenient to our heroes or else!" And it's pretty gross imo.
Thoughts?
I thought that I would put these two asks together and take this opportunity to talk about the abuse victims in RWBY and how they're handled. I've tried to think long and hard about what to say about this, because this is an important topic to me and something that's personal for me. I'm an abuse survivor, but I have a complicated relationship with that part of myself and I'm never really comfortable talking about it much. But despite the fact that I've experienced abuse, I recognize that I'm not a professional sensitivity editor, not a therapist, and not someone who's studied the effects of abuse.
I'm simply writing this based on my own feelings and what I've picked up witnessing other abuse victims discuss their own feelings about abused character. There will be RWBY criticism below the keep reading. Please keep in mind that I'm not speaking for all abuse survivors and am only trying to articulate my own feelings in regards to this issue.
The first thing to note is that there isn't one, correct, right way to write an abuse victim in my opinion. Lots of people have different reactions and responses to abuse, the way they were abused is often also different, causing different reactions.
In the first anon, it's noted that Emerald and Whitley both seem to move on from their abuse quickly and with very little effect on them or their stories. Many abuse victims put their experiences on the back burner or 'in a box' to deal with later, or mask and pretend that they're alright or that their abuse just didn't happen. Some of them let their feelings or their anger simmer over time. There are also abuse victims who do just... Move on with relative ease. I'd imagine that's very rare though. (again, I'm not not an expert or any sort of psychologist.)
In the same way, an abuse victim becoming an abuser in their own interactions is something that one hundred percent happens. Cinder, Salem, Adam, and even Blake and Winter have all acted in abusive ways towards the people around them (though obviously Blake and Winter acted much less abusive than any of the villains mentioned.) It might be very hard for abuse victims to not fall back into those patterns of abuse that they've suffered, especially if they go through it at an early age. I'm not very comfortable talking about my own experiences, but myself and my siblings have all had to fight down toxic, hurtful traits that we picked up either through emulating or through survival. And it's hard to do that. Portraying characters who have been abused that lost that fight and might have abusive tendencies or slip themselves is - to me at least - sometimes even helpful in working through my own feelings.
And there are definitely one hundred percent abuse victims who feel like the way they were treated is deserved, that they 'earned' it, that they must 'make up for it.' Oz is in this category. There's nothing wrong with the concept of a character who feels responsible for their abuser or the hurt their abuser has caused to others, there’s nothing wrong with a character who tends to act as though everything is their fault and who thinks very poorly of themselves.
In theory. But the problem is that in application, there are a lot of pitfalls and struggles that come with writing for abuse victims. Understanding, thoughtfulness, and care are not the RWBY writers’ strength, and any time you portray real life issues that strongly impact the real life people involved in them, you have to be aware and careful with the messages you’re sending. This is obviously very important when someone writes for any minority or oppressed group or the issues that they face, but it’s also important to remember when you write for abuse victims, because they do have stigmas around them and deal with stereotypes and harmful portrayals as well. Let’s look at what I consider some harmful or hurtful pitfalls when it comes to abused characters.
Are the abused characters treated as the victims they are? If the abuse a character faces is treated as comical, treated as unimportant, or treated as deserved, that’s an obvious major flaw. Sad to say, but RWBY does not pass this. On two separate occasions, a character is hit by someone close to them in a way that clearly causes them some pain, with Blake hitting Sun across the face for following her, and Winter hitting Weiss for answering a question incorrectly and again for failing in her training (I tend to be more sympathetic towards Blake’s situation, as it is more gray with her clearly thinking Sun had stalked her which is a clear trigger from her own abuse, but this is an explanation, not an excuse and the fact that it was framed as funny rather than something Blake shouldn’t have done and should apologize for is the problem.) They also do not treat Ozpin like the victim when Qrow punches him in the face, having no one call Qrow out for it and having him never express guilt or try to apologize for it. Yes, I know Ozpin had retreated, but they never showed Qrow even make an effort to get Ozpin to come back so he could apologize. . They also ‘redeem’ Hazel and give him a ‘partially right’ storyline despite his openly beating Ozpin, unfairly blaming him for the death of his sister, and insisting that Ozpin deserved to be tortured. On top of this, despite having been horribly abused by the SDC, Adam isn’t treated with even an ounce of sympathy or understanding and Jacques Schnee and the SDC is treated like a more comical-ish nuisance in season seven and eight. This is greatly flawed. Hitting someone because they lied to you or kept secrets from you is not okay, hitting someone because they said something you don’t like is not okay. This should not be treated as funny and it shouldn’t be treated as the fault of the person who was hit for not being a good enough friend.
Are the abused characters mostly villains, when the heroes have never faced it? The reason for this is obvious, although it’s valid to have a villain be an abuse victim, it’s never alright to villainize abuse victims. Making the majority of your bad guys abuse victims and your good guys have positive relationships is in my opinion, harmful. Point for RWBY, this is not the case for their show. Mercury, Salem, and Cinder on the bad side are all abuse victims with Raven being a possible, but unconfirmed abuse victim as well. While Weiss, Blake, Ozpin, and Whitley are also abuse victims, with Qrow and May both being possible, but unconfirmed abuse victims, and Winter and Emerald are both abuse victims who were on the side of a villain and then turned good.
Is the abuse more severe in the ‘bad’ characters and lighter in the ‘good’ characters? If the abuse that the good guys faced is mostly lighter things and the abuse that the villains suffered is worse and more severe, that might send some bad messages that people who suffer more are automatically worse people, or ‘unsalvageable’ or ‘too broken,’ as opposed to the people that ‘there’s still hope for.’ Unfortunately, I think RWBY is almost a tie? We’ve never seen Weiss or Emerald suffer more than a hit, we don’t know for sure that Whitley or Winter were ever victims of physical abuse. Ozpin and Blake’s abuse is worse, however, as they are hunted down by their abusers who attempt to murder them, make them suffer, and hurt their loved ones. They also were heavily emotionally manipulated and victim blamed by their abusers. And on the villain side, Mercury was beat by his father who hated him and stole his semblance (an extension of your soul, I believe, in canon,) and the abuse led to the loss of his limbs. Cinder was forced to work hard labor by her abusive employer and the ‘stepsisters’ treated her badly, and she was physically electrocuted. We see her abuse extend to Salem using her Grimm arm to hurt her, copying the effects of the necklace. Adam was also a child laborer who worked in terrible conditions who got his face branded by his employer, in the SDC, which had to have been anti-faunus charged due to his bull horns. We don’t see Salem ever physically abused, but know that she was mistreated, isolated, and neglected by her ‘cruel’ father. So it’s not quite a tie, there are more severely abused characters amongst the villains than the heroes, but this is close enough that I don’t consider this much of a strike against them.
In the villains, is the abuse they faced given as ‘reason’ for their villainy? As I said before, villainizing abuse victims isn’t the way to go. A good way to avoid this - I think - is not have abuse be the sole reason for someone’s fall into a life of crime or cruelty. This is something that RWBY... Fails at imo. When showing us Mercury’s backstory, we’re introduced to him through seeing that he had just killed his abuser who cost him his legs, and then gets recruited by Cinder who at the very least likely emotionally and physically abused him the same way she did with Emerald, leading to the conclusion that the only reason he’s there at all is due to abuse. However, he’s just a teen and it’s possible that (like Emerald) he’ll be redeemed. A much more condemning story to talk about is Cinder’s. After people had been clambering for a Cinder backstory since volume three, RWBY finally showed us one. But it doesn’t include Cinder meeting Salem, why she joined her, her proving herself, none of that. Instead, Cinder’s backstory was entirely focused on her abusive situation as a child, entirely focused on her suffering. Cinder killing her abusers and then killing the teacher who decided to arrest her for getting herself out of her abusive situation was portrayed as the only needed backstory, the explanation to why she’s a power hungry, abusive, cruel, selfish, and just plain evil person. ‘She was abused’ is the explanation for why Cinder is where she is and why she is who she is in RWBY. That’s highly problematic to me.
In the heroes, are they “the Perfect, Sanitized Abuse Victims?” As I said before, there is no one type of abuse victim, but if someone has several abuse victims and they’re all either submissive, sad, and self-doubting, but gentle and caring and soft or dropped their abuser like a hotcake and never looked back, never seem affected, never really talk about it after they left... That’s bothersome to me personally. Measuring how RWBY is in this particular subject is... A little harder than I thought it would be. Let’s start by looking at the most prevalent abuse victim, Blake. She’s one of the reasons why this is hard to gauge, because for the first five seasons, Blake was deeply flawed and clearly affected by her abuse in ways that made her ‘unappealing.’ Blake was cynical, stubborn, cold, hard to get to know, she didn’t trust easily, she lashed out at her friends regularly, ran from her problems, made choices for her friends, and had a very negative self image. This didn’t stop her from being a good character and friend with a lot of good sides, too, and she had real, important friendships. This was - to me - a really great portrayal of someone clearly affected by their trauma, with lots to work on, who was still a good person. Some of her faults and problems started to get resolved in a natural way through her journey with Sun in volumes four and five, but when season six came around, many of Blake’s other traits suddenly vanished. No longer stubborn, independent, or cynical, and no longer standing up for herself, or really displaying her temper or hardheadedness or her struggles with getting to know people... Blake became more submissive, sad, self-doubting, but gentle, caring, and soft. Sigh. As the first ask mentioned, Whitley and Emerald both seemed to drop their abusers quickly the second they were removed from their lives again. it’s also worth noting that Whitley was treated with nothing but coldness and contempt by Weiss until he ‘proved himself’ by doing something selfless. Weiss did more or less drop Jacques the moment she left her house in V4, only mentioning him or her experiences when she’s using it to talk about Blake, and when she confronted him again in V7, she did so as someone who is proving she no longer cares. Ozpin seems to be the only one still unable to move on from his abuse and the ‘unappealing’ abuse victim. The first anon is right, there’s something satisfying with seeing an abuse victim move on like their abuser didn’t matter. But when almost all your abuse victims do, and one of the only other ones is turned into a submissive and soft support based / romance based character, and the only really ‘unappealing’ abuse victim is someone we’re supposed to see as ‘gray’... There’s something off there, in my opinion.
Were the abuse victims treated respectfully and thoughtfully by their friends, and if not, were they portrayed as wrong? This probably isn’t something that really even needs an explanation. Abuse victims should be able to set their own boundaries and tell their stories only when they want, when they feel comfortable, Their friends should be understanding of this and not force anything from them. In the case of Blake and Weiss, this is handled really well! Their friends let them talk about their experiences in their own time, and they’re understanding and validate their feelings when it comes up (much more common with Blake than with Weiss, who like I said, seemed to move on from her dad quickly after she left.) However, when it comes to Oz... This is all wrecked. Although unintentional (no one knew how deeply tied up with Salem Ozpin was or how intimate the memories they were going to watch were,) our main characters still forced Ozpin’s deepest and most personal secrets out of him in a fit of upset while he was tearfully begging them not to. He was forced to relive his most traumatic experiences in hi-def with other people watching with him, all his secrets and all his abuse wrenched away from him in what was clearly a very painful way. And then no one showed Ozpin even the slightest bit of sympathy or understanding for what he’d gone through, and no one ever apologized for what they had forced him to relive. In fact, Team RWBY were clearly displayed as in the right, and Oz was displayed as completely wrong for not trusting them implicitly. He had to apologize to them, which they acted begrudgingly accepting of as if they hadn’t shouted at an abuse victim after forcing him to relive all his worst experiences.
Are some abuse victims portrayed as bad for things that other abuse victims aren’t portrayed as bad for? Like the second ask says, in RWBY, Cinder and Mercury are treated as villains for having killed their abusers and Cinder is almost arrested for it, it’s considered a step in the direction of their villainy. But Blake is (rightfully) treated as the victim who was forced, who had no choice, who just wanted the abuse to stop. This is hypocritical and fundamentally flawed. I think this is a reflection of the fact that Cinder and Mercury are meant to be ‘bad’ abuse victim, who had violent tendencies and anger issues, and were already featured as bad guys before their backstory’s dropped, whereas Blake was meant to be a better abuse victim who (by season six) was starting to get written as a soft girl who just wanted to help her friends.
All in all, although there’s some things that I think that RWBY did well enough, I definitely think that I would consider their portrayal of abuse victims to be lacking. This is just my opinion and the way I feel about the writing, but there are a lot of ways to look at it. I think overall, I just really wish that the RWBY writers had been a little more sensitive and spent a little longer focusing on the character arcs involved in abuse recovery. (There’s still a chance for Whitley, Weiss, and Emerald to get more focus in volume ten, though, so long as the writers don’t timeskip!)
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RWBY V08E01 - Divide
V8 is here!
Sadly, the hype I had for V7 is nowhere to be found this volume. V7 left me cautious. The way it used social injustice as little more than window dressing while doing nothing to address it was enough to leave a bad taste in my mouth, and has ended up being the only season I didn’t immediately rewatch or seek reactions to it. Hell, I still haven’t listened to the soundtrack.
But, weird issues aside, it’s still RWBY and I’m still excited to watch it so here we are! Let’s do this!
Note: I’ve managed to remain mostly unspoiled with the sole exception of hearing this volume is supposed to take place over two days, so yay?
Of all the things I expected this season to start with, Cinder's backstory wasn't one of them. That girl is Cinder, right? Cinderella and all that.
Yyup, Cinder. Wow, seven seasons before giving her a slightly more tangible backstory, maybe to humanize her a bit? Bold strategy, considering everything she's done, let's see how it plays out.
Neo has to be questioning her choices really hard. I know she's on the revenge path but it's one thing to work with Cinder and another to fly directly into a flying Grimm whale.
It's interesting that they chose to have a similar intro as in Volume 4, with someone who doesn't quite know what they got into. Back then it was Emerald and Mercury watching the pools of Grimm, now it's Neo walking into a giant whale.
Neo knows what Cinder is capable of. She's seen her maiden powers first hand. Hell, she knows how charming her personality is. And now she's seeing her kneel before someone. Can't be confidence inspiring.
Tsk, tsk, Neo, I expected she'd know by now her place in Cinder's ranking.
oh god no, please not another failed hug
What's the opposite of a glow up? Because Hazel went through that.
I'm intrigued. The glimpse of Cinder's past where she was completely powerless and now this dressing down. Is she lying through her teeth right now or does she genuinely believe that since Salem presumably rescued her from her previous life?
Interesting choice to not only hide her eyes behind her hair but to also present her Grimm side to the camera while she's saying this, hiding her expression even further.
Salem seems more evil than usual, but maybe she's just on the top of the world after having acquired a relic and having her army on Atlas' doorstep.
I can't quite tell what I'm looking at here. Maybe another angle of Atlas? It looks really weird from the side.
First faunus with animal hands? I guess Ghira had retractable claws.
They are looking quite calm considering there's a giant whale in their sky. Unless they can't see it. They are in a hole surrounded by stone after all. But still, it'd be interesting characterization to have them so used to being screwed over by life that they saw the giant whale and went "Huh. I guess it's Tuesday."
Weiss would definitely know about that.
I'm curious about the coordination that's been happening behind the scenes. How does she know that's a friendly ship?
I guess at least some time has passed, since Yang, Blake and Penny aren't with them.
Very inconspicuous to destroy a droid.
Not a lot of time though, since Ren is still brooding alone. Very intrigued by the picture in the background.
Nothing says that the time for silly shenanigans is gone better than this.
I guess enough people saw Pietro and Maria running around to make them fugitives. On the bright side, it still says "detain," not "kill"
Ironwood literally shot a child, that's pretty important information to keep secret. Even if he is the child who got shot. How long before this bites someone in the ass?
I wonder if the couple in the background are the founders of the happy huntresses. The one with the eyepatch looks a lot like Robyn, enough to maybe be her mom?
Also makes it a lot easier to threaten with overwhelming force to get something from Ironwood but I guess he already gave them up.
Uuh, I like this.
I thought that after V5 the team wouldn't separate again. And if the season is really going to cover just a couple of days, it almost doesn't count. So, it keeps the all the character development from V4 and V5 (that the team is their home) but gives them enough time to breath on their own.
It's also interesting that they seeded this during the last season. RWBY has shown some long term planning but this makes all the in-fighting and arguments from the last season make sense.
If they do split up, I think Blake would go with Ruby. She's always been on the pragmatic side of things. And it adds more drama to split her from Yang, last season was all about how well they work together (and flirting). Hopefully this'd mean that she'd talk with Ruby more than once this season.
It looks like Ren is joining team Yang, which would leave Nora with Ruby if only because they seem to need to do their own thing right now. I'm not sure how it'd fit with Nora's interest in Mantle though.
Everyone else I'm not sure about.
Weiss could go either way. Maybe she feels guilty about Mantle or maybe she feels like she could help infiltrate the military compound. Although that could lead her to meet Winter which I doubt she wants right now. Maybe she's too recognizable to help Ruby.
I think Penny is going to go team Yang. Protector of Mantle after all. And it'd make Ruby's arc more interesting to have less of her usual friends next to her.
I feel Oscar would make more sense in the infiltration side of things and warning the world seems like something Ozpin would try to do.
Jaune I have no idea. Maybe whatever team doesn't get Weiss?
yup
Okay, easy guesses out of the way.
Oh, honey.
Yesss, personal feelings.
Damn, she looks incredibly badass.
Huh.
I guess Weiss is going with Ruby then.
This is tense! I actually had a moment of dread the second everyone noticed it was Penny's scroll.
And Penny just had her remaining faith in Ironwood completely destroyed.
I can already see this season is going to break my heart again.
Harriet is literally pouting. Probably pretty humiliating to have been beaten by some academy dropouts.
Welp, only a human leg left.
Feels pretty on the nose to have him literally lose part of his human body to show how he's been losing his humanity.
Well, that took a turn.
I'm glad they are taking a possible redemption (other than death) completely off the table for Ironwood. I know shooting Oscar was bad but no one knows about that. There's no way to hide this.
Those are not the expressions of people thinking "huh, maybe I'm doing the wrong thing here"
Hm. I guess Oscar is getting kidnapped. By a Grimm?
Is this the first time a RWBY season premiere doesn't have a fight? I think it is, even V5 had Yang punching someone. Not that I'm complaining, I do like talky episodes.
My first thought after the first scene with Salem and company was that there were at least a couple of players not entirely happy with their situation. Cinder is somewhat of a mystery but Neo is way over her head and obviously not happy about being an "asset." Emerald got rebuffed again even after spending two seasons crying for Cinder.
There's a parallel between Salem and Cinder, and Cinder and Emerald I assume is intentional. If Salem rescued Cinder from her Cinderella situation, the similarities would be even more visible, with Cinder giving Emerald a life outside of simple survival. However, while Salem is firm about Cinder's position as a pawn, she does value her. She knows how to play that particular game of emotional give and take. Cinder doesn't. She has never shown Emerald any appreciation. How much further can she push Emerald before she accepts Cinder doesn't care about her?
I'd say Emerald is prime material for turning sides but I wonder... we haven't had a death on the enemies side yet. Even Watts survived. Emerald could be the first. Maybe to show how far gone Cinder is, or as revenge from Neo. And the death of someone who's at least doubting they are in the right place would hit harder that someone who is drinking Salem's kool-aid.
Anyway. I feel this first episode set-up a comparison between all three sides. Salem's forces hate each other, the "good guys" split but they still like and respect each other.
Somehow Salem's downfall (or slowing down?) this volume is going to be tied to the RWBY and JNPR teams working together and trusting each other despite their differences. Which, well, duh, but still.
Ironwood's are a bit more vague, they seem to be solidifying behind him but I'm not sure where it's going yet. Maybe Marrow could defect? Although that still seems like the too-obvious choice. In any case, freeing Qrow and Robyn would be good first step by whoever ends up switching sides.
I'm curious about a lot of things (What's going to be Penny's arc this volume?) but I think that's all for now. Until next time!
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RWBY Recaps: Volume 6 “So That’s How It Is”
This is a re-posting from Nov. 17th, 2018 in an effort to get all my recaps fully on tumblr. Thanks!
Real talk: that episode was 100% not what I wanted to see and honestly not what I thought we’d be getting after the tone of “The Lost Fable.” Yet here we are.
We start off with the gang having just finished Jinn’s vision, which surprised me a little bit. RT tends to delay gratification—Want to know how people will react to this plot point? If that person survived? Gotta wait a while longer!—so I was expecting to begin with the villains, if not push this confrontation an entire episode. Yet we kick things off with a voice over from Yang, highlighting the exact part of the story we knew she’d hyper-focus on:
Yang: “Salem can’t be killed. You all heard her too right?”
And we’re immediately back to where we were emotionally in episode two—which frankly drives me a little nuts. The entire purpose of getting glimpses of the team throughout the vision was to see their reactions to the events: Qrow lifting a hand towards Ozma, Ruby looking ill at Salem trying to kill herself, Blake and Weiss heartbroken over Salem’s grief, Yang horrified at what the gods were doing to them. On the one hand I agree that it’s incredibly realistic to have them lashing out like this. Put a bunch of teenagers through that much trauma, chuck a now fallible mentor at their feet, and they’ve got themselves a scapegoat they can’t resist. On the other hand, Team RWBY + co. has been portrayed as staggeringly better than this in the past, so it rings as at least a little false to me that they’d go this far. Not that they wouldn’t be angry, but that out of the six of them—including Oscar now—there’s not a glimmer of empathy alongside the anger. I understand entirely that we ended on the worst note possible (more manipulation by Jinn), but that doesn’t erase the fact that this is a) a large group of b) incredibly compassionate people who c) just spent 99% of that vision witnessing traumatizing events that weren’t Ozpin’s fault and feeling for him then. Bypassing one moment of sympathy for him or even hesitation at cutting him further feels less like realistic teenage fury and more like the writers deciding to ignore a large chunk of their characterization for the sake of drama.
Because what they witnessed aside, this is still Ozpin. He’s still the headmaster/friend they adored, still the man who taught them in Haven, still the huntsmen they fought beside in one of their worst battles to date. And here he is now after having his entire past ripped from him, back on his knees and crying. That’s an image that the protectors in them shouldn’t be able to brush aside so easily, especially when each of them has been through a piece of Ozpin's existence. Weiss knows what it’s like to have people more powerful than you pulling the strings. Yang understands anger that drives you to choices you’ll later regret. Blake has already fought against unimaginable odds (see: Oobleck’s lecture about how she wants to change the world but has no idea how to do it yet. That’s Ozpin). Ruby is familiar with being the eternal outsider—“I don’t want to be the bee’s knees! I just want to be a normal girl, with normal knees”—and Qrow, as he’ll mention in a moment, knows what it’s like to have nothing and no one. Ozpin was there for him then, but he won’t do the same for Ozpin now.
Let them have their anger, but let them act like themselves too.
Yang: “There was so much you hadn’t told us! How could you think that was okay?”
Yang in particular has a lot of displaced rage. She has since she was a kid and now Ozpin has become a very easy target to direct all that towards. Still, it doesn’t change how mind-numbingly frustrating it is to see these kids twisting every piece of information that comes their way. How could he think that was okay? Ozpin already gave you his answer. He said straight out that he doesn’t want to reveal all his secrets because the last two times he did that (Raven and Lionheart) he was betrayed and, presumably, that’s happened numerous times before. Yang insists that he can tell them his secrets. They’ll stand by him! But oh look, they wrenched the secrets from Ozpin forcibly and now they're not standing by him.
The girls are liars and hypocrites in this moment. Like I get it, they're also traumatized teenagers, but that doesn't change the fact that they're pulling the same shit Ozpin is currently getting all the flack for.
I’ve mentioned before that there are a hundred reasons why Jinn’s answer to that question is complete BS. Even ignoring our audience-knowledge of how jinns tend to operate, we have the in-canon fact that she can’t answer anything about the future. Her answer regarding Salem's defeat is null and void in light of not knowing how the situation might change—how can she possibly say that Ozpin or another will never win? But even ignoring that too we have the additional fact that defeating Salem never was and never will be the true goal. Uniting humanity is. Keeping people safe from the grimm is. These are things everyone agreed to long before they even knew who Salem was. What? Did Team RWBY think they were going to wipe out the grimm in their lifetime? That they’d drive creatures to extinction that, as far as they know, have existed since the dawn of time? No. They were just planning to make the world a better place for as long as they could. They’d already agreed to a fight against an “impossible” to beat enemy. Fundamentally nothing has changed.
Yet Ozpin understands that suddenly learning that a Big Bad is immortal knocks a huge dent in everyone’s hope. He knows—largely from experience—that laying out the situation with no context or nuance (as Jinn did) will make people give up. And we already see it happening, not just in their reaction towards Ozpin, but in casual lines like Blake’s, “I just want to get this stupid relic to Atlas.” No doubt one of Ozpin’s greatest fears is that learning the truth will alienate people from fighting at all. It did for Raven. It did for Lionheart. And now it’s doing the same for the girls, with them acting like they just want to get the powerful relic out of their hands and then leave Ozpin to fight this war by himself. Though I don’t actually think the girls will give up (that would be a very different kind of story), that line is not reassuring right now and just re-emphasizes that Ozpin was right to be wary.
We also see it in Qrow’s exchange with Ozpin:
Qrow: “No one wanted me. I was cursed. I gave my life to you because you gave me a place in this world. I thought I was finally doing some good.”
Ozpin: “But you are—”
Qrow: “Meeting you was the worst luck of my life.”
No one is letting Ozpin finish. Yang demands to know why he kept his secrets and then cuts him off before he gets out more than an “I—”. They let him admit that he doesn’t have a plan, but no space to explain any context surrounding that statement. Here Ozpin tries to tell Qrow that he is doing good, he does have a place in this world, the existence of Salem does not suddenly negate everything else they’ve accomplished… but Qrow doesn’t let him get that far. At this point they’re not interested in listening to anything Ozpin has to say. This isn’t a conversation anymore, it’s an emotional witch hunt.
So is it any surprise that Ozpin eventually nopes out of there? Qrow has just punched him and, far more damaging, delivered that gut-wrenching line about how he’s the worst thing that ever happened to him. Again, context always matters. Two friends fighting and saying cruel things to one another? Not great, but survivable. Ozpin and Qrow aren’t just two friends though. Qrow is currently Ozpin’s only friend.
Let’s recap: His children are dead, his first host is dead, the original version of humanity that he knew? All dead. Who Ozma once was is gone, the gods he knew abandoned him, and the one remaining tie he has to his past is his genocidal ex-wife who’s hell-bent on killing him. Every host Ozpin has had since then has passed away or merged with him in some horrific amalgamation. His friends at Beacon are either out of reach or don’t know about his reincarnation trick and think he’s dead too. Raven sided with Salem over him. Lionheart, a friend for decades, sided with Salem over him. The children he’s traveling with are out for his blood, including the child he’s forced to share a body with. The one person he had left was Qrow… and Qrow just gave the biggest “fuck you” possible. Keep in mind the abuse coding from last episode and fill in the blanks of a couple thousand years. Then Ozpin told Salem the truth and was murdered along with his children. Now the truth comes out and he’s chucked into a tree and screamed at. Ozpin has been conditioned to expect nothing but violence when he bares himself emotionally… and people keep proving him right. He’s currently the lowest he's been in decades and there’s no one here to help pick him back up.
“Maybe you’re right," he says. Maybe I am the worst thing that’s ever happened to you all… so I’ll leave. As much as I’m able to, anyway.
The real kicker though? That’s just met with more anger. “That bastard!” Yang yells. “Tell him we’re not done yet!” Ozpin quite literally can’t do anything right in their eyes. Keep secrets to protect people? You’re evil. Spill secrets? You’re evil. Stick around to defend yourself? How dare you. Leave because you’re obviously not wanted? How dare you.
And you know what I just realized? At least one of the reasons why this arc feels so extreme to me? Because our characters are currently acting exactly like a large portion of the fanbase. For years RWBY viewers have demonized Ozpin and complained every time he came on screen, waiting for the day when the show would finally prove that he’s irredeemable trash. Except when that day came we actually learned that he’s a flawed, mortal man who was manipulated by a bunch of dick gods. Instead of acknowledging that hey, maybe we were wrong about his character, a huge portion of the fanbase has spent the last week grasping at straws in order to continue hating him. Ozpin has been sacrificing child soldiers to his war for millennia. (False). Ozpin has done nothing but lie to the cast since day one. (False). Ozpin raped Salem during his first reincarnation and was super abusive towards her. (False??)
Now we have this kind of mangled “justification” made canonical. Fans and characters alike are currently determined to make Ozpin their antagonist—no matter what.
So Ozpin basically has a panic attack while still trying to give them what they supposedly want: a world where he’s not around to mess things up. Yet the girls’ hypocrisy is revealed once more. They despise every decision Ozpin makes… but still want him calling all the shots.
Weiss: “He just left us?”
Blake: “What are we going to do now?”
Newsflash, you can’t have it both ways. Lucky for them (since no one is willing to take on the responsibility that Ozpin has been shouldering) Maria steps up and announces that they need to put off this conversation until they’ve found someplace safe. Because grimm. Which is what they should have done in the first place and would have if Yang hadn’t thrown a temper tantrum. She starts yelling at Maria too—“Lady, I don’t know who you think you are”—which just further demonstrates how Yang is willing to take her anger out on anyone and anything that crosses her path. It’s not healthy. It’s certainly not fair to those around her and I really hope someone addresses this soon.
Maria: “I’m still coming to terms with the fact that this is Humanity’s second time around!”
You tell ‘em! Poor Maria was thrown into the deep end of the pool with no life preserver and she’s the only one managing to keep a level head. God bless this woman.
(Please don’t be evil, oh please don’t be evil.)
Maria: “If we don’t move we die and I’ll be damned if I’ve lived this long just to die out in the cold!”
And how long is that exactly? Long enough to have lived through the Great War? Inquiring minds want to know…
Ruby agrees though—beginning to segue back into her role as compassionate leader—and at her word everyone packs up the rest of their stuff and heads on out of that awful spot. Salt and burn the earth, girls. Leave it behind.
Except just when I think the emotional punches are through we get this horrible moment between Oscar and Qrow. Oscar tells Ruby, in an intimate moment of confidence, that he’s afraid he’s just going to be another life of Ozpin’s. Ruby immediately showed compassion again once Oscar switched back (reaching for him when he winced from the punch) and here she’s her old self again, reassuring him that no, he’ll always be his own person. That's the Ruby we love.
Then Qrow breezes by and denies it. “Don’t lie to him,” he says. “We’re better than that.”
Wow.
That was not okay. By any stretch of the imagination. Goddammit, Qrow, you’re the adult here and honestly I don’t give a damn how much you’re hurting right now, that doesn’t give you the right to take your anger out on an innocent kid. Oscar didn’t ask for this and the idea that he exists only to be Ozpin’s host is just blatantly untrue. You’re being cruel to him for cruelty’s sake which, I’d like to point out, we’ve yet to see Ozpin do. Despite all the trauma he’s suffered, he’s never taken his grief out on the children around him like that. He’s also never claimed to be above lying as Qrow just did. With the point being only that this group is making a LOT of mistakes right now while refusing to allow Ozpin his own.
With that lovely piece of advice we turn to the villains… which frankly felt like some much needed breathing room after “The Lost Fable” and these last five minutes. The fact that the villains’ plot-line is taking place in the past means that nothing revealed to them is news to the audience. Cinder’s alive? We knew that. Ozpin reincarnated? Obviously knew that too. The focus is instead on how they react to this information… and it turns out the answer is “Pretty damn violently.”
Before that though we see Hazel, Emerald, and Mercury arriving back at Salem’s palace (the same one that she and Oz once lived in together). I’ve already come across jokes about how Hazel is now the dad of the group, and while obviously this is just meant as a silly acknowledgement of some really flimsy compassion we see from him, Emerald does look to Hazel when she gets off the ship, clearly seeking reassurance after Cinder’s (presumed) death.
Tyrian is waiting to greet them and he’s his usual, creepy self—minus half a tail. Really though, he seems to have recovered quickly from Salem’s wrath last volume. He taunts Emerald about Cinder and when she threatens him he just cuts himself on her blade. Not gonna lie, I love Tyrian more and more as the series goes on. He’s the wild card of the group and as such remains endlessly entertaining.
Mercury is supportive of Emerald, helping her calm down a bit in the face of Tyrian’s taunts, and really all of this is a nice contrast to what we’re getting with Team RWBY: the villains are supporting one another while our heroes tear each other down. Remember all those references to how Salem’s victory will be in dividing humanity? Yeeeaah.
She’s obviously displeased with the report. Hazel tries to take responsibility for the defeat and, uh, this happens:
Look familiar? I’m getting very worried about what that intro shot of Qrow and the grimm arms is going to mean.
So Hazel is tortured for a while until Emerald admits that it was Cinder’s fault they lost. It’s all some really horrible mind games on Salem’s part: ask for an answer and torture the guy who provides you with one, get Emerald to call out the one person she cares for, casually drop that this person still lives, intimidate Watts for questioning her. Tyrian is the wild card, yes, but we know now that his ramblings about his “Queen” aren’t so random after all. Salem is still playing the part of the God we saw in Jinn’s flashback and her followers treat her accordingly. They do as she says out of fear. It’s what Salem lays out in the trailer: they can have their own desires, but only if they don’t interfere with her own.
Hazel drops the bomb that, oh yeah, your ex also reincarnated already, which puts an interesting twist on Salem’s anger. Meaning, I wonder if she’ll be more forgiving of their failure now that she knows they were unexpectedly facing Ozpin in Haven. Regardless, she’s not happy about the news.
At all.
We leave her letting one hell of a draft in and return to the gang. Yang bitches about how the path hasn’t led anywhere and Maria asks if she really doesn’t have anything “better to do than harass a defenseless old lady?”
More real talk: does Yang have experiences that explain her current attitude? Hell yes. Does all this make for compelling characterization? Absolutely. But right now I don’t like her. Having a reason to be angry doesn’t excuse the harm you do when you direct that anger towards those who don’t deserve it. From her pointing her weapon at Qrow to harassing Maria, I don’t think Yang is acting like a very good person right now and I haven't enjoyed her time on screen. An understandable development? Again, yes, but that doesn’t change the fact that she’s acting like a brat and encouraging everyone else to do the same.
Of course, as soon as she challenges Maria the path leads them to a farmhouse. Not that Yang is ready to apologize for her attitude (another big difference between Ozpin’s mistakes and others’: he’s constantly apologizing for his). Weiss notes that the place looks deserted, but at least it’s better than staying out in the cold.
…Is it though? That farmhouse looks creepy as hell and I don’t trust it. To say nothing of the fact that we’ve got that sewer place from the intro right next door.
And that’s where we end up, the gang walking into this abandoned, potentially grimm-infested farm while they’re all pissed at each other and the gate squeaks ominously closed behind them. Oh yeah. I’m feeling real good about the next episode.
(Not.)
Other Details of Note
I’m intrigued by the fact that Jinn seems to have dissipated immediately after finishing her story, both because personality-wise she seems like the kind to stick around and gloat, and also because they’ve still got one question left. We saw Awful Facial Hair Oz ask his questions back-to-back, so unless Jinn streamlined things for convenience’s sake there doesn’t seem to be a wait period between each question… I don’t know. Narratively it makes sense (wanna clear Jinn out so there’s no distraction from the Ozpin bashing), but in-world the rules governing these relics seem a little murky.
So Salem knows Cinder is alive. I wonder if that’s connected to the grimm arm she gave her. If Salem has ties to Cinder that she hasn’t bothered to explain yet. Hmm. Wonder if she can control Cinder’s arm like she does the other grimm…
Salem also mentions the Sword of Destruction and intended to go after it before she heard that Ozpin had already reincarnated. Will that be the next relic on the list then?
With the exception of Ruby fighting the sewer grimm and everyone facing off against someone off screen, we’ve hit on most of the imagery from the trailer and intro already. I’ll be interested to see what the rest of the volume holds since it looks like that vast majority of that material is being kept carefully under-wraps.
Still looking forward to reconciliation. Still putting a lot of stock in that one image from the intro lol
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You know what always bugged me about Jaune attacking Oscar (aside from the obvious)? It felt like he took advantage of the fact that Oscar was a defenseless child. I doubt he'd have the gall to attack Ozpin in his previous body. Now with Qrow on the other hand, I'm not too sure. One of his more consistent traits is picking fights when he shouldn't.
I don’t know, Jaune didn’t have any trouble charging at Cinder, or lashing out at Qrow around the campfire (though he didn’t attack him physically.) It seems like Jaune was willing to lash out at anyone who might have possibly sort of contributed to Pyrrha’s choice and he seemed more controlled by his grief more than logic or power complex. Idk, thinking he’d be just as physical with adult Professor Ozpin doesn’t seem too far off base. He was pretty illogical. Like, not trying to throw shade. And he did get it right to blame Cinder, obviously, although I feel like Jaune of all people charging at Cinder should’ve resulted in more injury to him than it did. His actions were frustrating, but were at least understandable for someone (especially a teenager) dealing with grief. But Oscar deserved a sincere apology from him and I’m so glad we started moving on from that.
...If Penny’s death triggers an ‘aggressive Jaune trying to find someone to blame and lashing out at everyone 2.0′ I’ll be very annoyed.
As for Qrow, I didn’t think he’d punch Oz at all before it happened and it confused the living daylights out of me. His fight with Winter was when he was seemingly in a pretty good mood and it seemed like a mutual grudge match he was more or less enjoying. And even though Winter seemed to take it much more seriously, there were moments where she was acting like it wasn’t all that serious too.
Qrow Vs Winter really read like an anime fight where you knew the stakes were low and they weren’t really out to hurt each other - and the person that actually got the closest to breaking that feeling was Winter. Qrow’s other conflicts like his spat with James and his arguing with Raven, those were all verbal fights. Qrow and Winter was (if I recall correctly) the only time we saw him actively get physical with an ally or even a former ally who hadn’t revealed themselves to be working with Salem yet, and again, Winter was the one who first started trying to deal blows and she’s the one who seemed more violent.
I mean, this is Qrow with Raven pre-her working with Salem.
And this is Qrow when she showed up at Haven with Cinder to help her steal the Relic.
So the understanding I at least was working with was that Qrow - while prone to arguments and being rude and disrespectful - wasn’t just a violent person. He fought with Winter because they had some messed up understanding linked to their school-rival-like relationship, and she was the exception, rather than the rule. Outside of her, he only seemed to get physical when the situation demanded a fight.
So Qrow just punching an ally - and longtime friend - because it’d been revealed that he’d lied to Qrow - albeit, about an important detail - seemed really out of left field for me considering the prior established thresh-hold of who he’s willing to attack. Qrow didn’t even reach for a weapon with Raven in the bar while she was getting in the way of Oz’s life saving plans out of selfishness and cowardice and being dismissive of Yang’s pain to his face plus acting kind of aggressively herself. But he was ready to shoot her the minute he thought she had gone to Salem. But Oz wasn’t revealed as having done some horrible, evil, non-understandable thing. He was revealed to have lied out of desperation about something admittedly important in his effort to do what he could to save people. Although I would’ve liked Qrow to take his side from the beginning, it makes sense for his character to have been mad, upset, and to have lashed out. Like I said before, what Qrow is known to get into is serious verbal fights. But punching Oz? When Oz clearly wouldn’t defend himself? When he’s in a body of a child? When his abuse at the hands of Salem was just revealed? That so didn’t even feel like Qrow!
In my opinion, the punch wasn’t a trackable, Qrow-like reaction that made sense. The punch was what started the whole ‘Qrow is violent’ spiral. It was so out there that I had tried to come up with an explanation (like 'maybe there was an Apathy near by they just didn't know about?') And then I started trying to reason that Qrow seeming to slide into deeper depression and drinking heavier was because he felt super bad about it and he was going to give a big heartfelt apology in Volume 7 when Oz came back, which obviously didn't happen. And then the writers randomly had Qrow fight Clover with Tyrian and decide James was at fault for it and get determined to kill him for most of a season without even having gotten the whole story, plus picking fights with Harriet, only to try and talk her down in the next scene he's in?
Qrow punching Oscar felt like an isolated incident that I was willing to consider a really weird and bad mistake on the part of the creators without throwing out the character, but then in seasons seven and eight, he got more violent and less loveable. But confusingly, sometimes Qrow acts like he used to. He waffles between Good Qrow and Bad Qrow sometimes, and sometimes on a scene by scene basis. Good Qrow would totally try and talk Harriet down, whereas Bad Qrow would totally knock her to the ground and taunt her about getting that fight she wanted. It's so weird to see such disjointed writing that makes characters feel so back and forth. It’s not just Qrow, the CRWBY writers have a tendency to just write whatever they think feels valid in the moment without considering the larger character journeys, I think. And once they start hearing complaints, sometimes they double down, but sometimes they start trying to write their characters to act differently without addressing the flaw itself. Like having Yang act like Summer is her mom again, or having Blake suddenly acting like she's really close friends with Ruby, or having Winter suddenly act like she was against the things she’d been totally fine with last season. So there's every chance they're just gonna pretend Qrow never did the violent things he did, and never address the punch or how he helped fight Clover or how he wanted to kill Ironwood. It's possible season nine or ten will feature Qrow acting like his Volume 3 - 5 self again and the writers just expecting everyone to roll with it.
... I spent way too long talking about Qrow. XD Oh well.
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