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nekropsii · 5 months

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im thinking about the relationship between kankri and porrim because its just so fucking WEIRD like theyre obviously important to eachother or care about eachother to some extent but we dont really know why?? like they dont seem to get along very well

she patronizes him constantly (which is VERY loaded considering they lived on fucking beforus) and ignores his boundaries (calling him patronizing nicknames he doesnt like, wiping his face while he tried to push her off) and he constantly makes insensitive bitchy bigoted comments that go against all of her values and make her angry

and theres not the same dynamic dolorosa and signless had where she raised him like theyre the same age so why do they even talk to eachother?? what is their relationship?? like were they childhood friends or something?? itd make sense if they were both a little different as kids and therefore got along better but then why do they still talk to eachother when they really dont now ITS SO WEIRD

It's... Complicated. They go way back, as far as I can tell.

The way I see it, they do not have a "Mother and Son" relationship- I find that most who assert this often place far too much maturity onto Porrim, who is literally 19 years old. It's more like an Adoptive/Found Sibling relationship between someone with a severe case of Eldest Daughter Syndrome and the social conditioning of a higher-end Midblood on Beforus, and someone with a chronic case of Only Child and the social conditioning of a Mutant Lime on Beforus. The relationship makes more sense to me when you view it this way. It's just... A fraught sibling relationship, formed under societal pressures we can't even fathom. Porrim Maryam, trained by society to cull those beneath her, trying hard not to, and for the most succeeding outside of someone very close to her, and Kankri Vantas, culled and isolated his whole life, becoming a total suck-up to the deeply misogynistic, ableist, hemoloyal culling system as both a method of self defense and as a wielding of the only weapon he really knows. It was used against him all the time, and it works, doesn't it? If sucking up to Able-Bodied Male Highbloods and ridiculing everyone beneath that golden standard is the best way to ensure safety, then he's gonna do it. He's essentially a lifelong voter for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.

Ultimately, I think what keeps Porrim by his side is that... I think she believes in him. It's like watching yourself lose your sibling to the Alt-Right Pipeline. I think she thinks he doesn't actually believe most of what he's saying, and that this is all deeply reflexive. She's smart enough to recognize the real systemic issues at play here, and that he's essentially caught in chains between 5 different machines that all want him dead. And she's right. When you actually read the shit Kankri's saying, it becomes almost immediately apparent that he's spouting bullshit, and that he absolutely knows this. I think what keeps Kankri by her side is that he knows she cares about him. There isn't any denying it. She might infringe on boundaries, or be generally annoying to him, and keeps doing that frustrating little thing called seeing through his and everyone else's bullshit and calling them out on it- not just including but especially his- but she cares. I think he knows that at the end of all things what he'd have left is her. Is this to say that if you got Kankri to grow a spine and genuinely believe in things that aren't spoonfeedings of the latest Conservative Highblood Talking Point/Psy-Op, he'd be a good person? Hell no. No way. He has a raging savior complex and is way too eager to throw other people under the bus and insult/ridicule them to their faces. He's an asshole. Just completely slimy.

But, again, sibling relationships know no bounds. This kind of dynamic just feels so... Realistic to me. The way their relationship is so strained but still so strong and ongoing just feels so human. I don't know. This is pretty meandering, I just think about them a lot.

#homestuck #homestuck analysis #homestuck meta #alpha trolls #beforan trolls #porrim maryam #kankri vantas #porrim.pdf #kankri.pdf #nekro.pdf #nekro.sms

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nekropsii · 15 days

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yo !! the alpha troll iceburg is really well done and im a SUCKER for iceburgs, but ive got 2 questions (genuine ones im not trying to correct you LOL)

1, where was it mentioned that cronus is a rapist? and 2, is kankri actually aroace? i know hes celibate but i always thought he had a crush on latula

i swear ive read the openbounds i just dont remember these parts HNGJDBGF

Hey, thanks a lot! Glad you like it!!

1.) It is not stated directly, but I feel as if saying otherwise is kind of stupid considering his behavior. It's just an obvious read. 1a.) Cronus assaulted Mituna on screen and in public, and a subtle detail about Mituna is that phrases he says a lot do not have typos in them. Him begging for Cronus to stop touching him was done with complete clarity. 1b.) He started grinding on his 13 year old relative in the middle of a crowd while pressuring him to go out with him, and wouldn't stop until he caved. 1c.) When Karkat turned down his advances, Cronus followed him home and tried to break into his house to keep at it. 1d.) In Mituna's Cassandra parallel, he is playing the role of both Apollo and Ajax the Lesser. The Rape of Cassandra is a key moment in Cassandra's myth, with Ajax the Lesser being the perpetrator. Rape isn't something that is directly featured in Homestuck itself - I reckon Hussie was just too uncomfortable with it to write it in - but I think Hussie's intention to have you read Cronus as a rapist without saying it out loud in the exact words of "Cronus is a rapist" is... Pretty clear, honestly.

2.) Kankri point blank says he's a part of the community, yes. While it was framed in a meanspirited way, it's best to just take it genuinely and go with him being AroAce. It's not good representation by any means, but it's still a facet of his character. 2a.) Him being a part of the AroAce community was actually made a separate detail from his celibacy, though the two are definitely features that are linked, kind of like Horuss's status of being both a Therian and a System. 2b.) I wouldn't call his feelings about Latula "a crush". He is creepily obsessed with her and framed as basically being her stalker. This is a different thing from having a crush, as much as fandoms will try to tell you otherwise, lol.

Have a nice day!!

#homestuck #homestuck meta #homestuck analysis #alpha trolls #beforan trolls #dancestors #cronus ampora #kankri vantas #cw assault #cw abuse #cw child harm #cw incest #cronus.pdf #kankri.pdf #nekro.pdf #nekro.sms #icebergposting

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nekropsii · 2 years

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Enough of the one-note characterizations of Kankri as this extremely overly verbose talking machine with zero self awareness and no personality outside of his politics. Boring. Inaccurate. Overplayed. Actually read his dialogue and you’ll get more material.

Are we going to talk about the fact that he’s bad at slang even after like eight trillion years? He’s really fucking socially awkward. He also knows what he’s doing, he is self aware. He also says acronyms in their full forms out loud. He wants to be a rebel and he doesn’t know how. Kankri is extremely out of touch and he knows it. He just doesn’t know how to get in touch.

Anyway, here’s some fun dialogue.

This bitch is funny.

#homestuck #homestuck meta #homestuck fandom #alpha trolls #beforan trolls #dancestors #kankri.pdf #kankri.prtsc #nekro.pdf #nekro.txt

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nekropsii · 1 year

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Thought I'd ask about the dancestor who left me the most awestruck, what do you think, about kankri vantas

I have a lot of thoughts about Kankri Vantas. Many essays worth of thoughts and then some. Here's a highlight reel of sorts:

Deep Dive into Kankri's Culling.

More on Kankri's Culling.

Notes on Kankri's AroAcehood.

Kankri's Relationship with Religion.

If you want to go through all of my posts, I have a tag for analyses about him. Have fun reading! Or don't, I'm not your boss. Either way, you'll gain some new levels of knowledge and understanding!!

#homestuck #homestuck meta #homestuck analysis #kankri vantas #kankri.pdf #nekro.pdf #nekro.sms

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nekropsii · 2 years

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sorry to harp on this!! i know kankri was based a lot on tumblr sjws in the early 2010s, and a lot of people identified as aroace at that time, so i can see how it would be relevant. but… he’s celibate? not aroace? i always thought it was more about him being linked to religion (the Irons necklace and such) or as a chirst figure of sorts himself? idk idr too much about kankri but if you wouldn’t mind shedding some light on how his canon character is offensive to aroace people i’d appreciate it ^^

(Including this anon as well as to not leave them out. Thank you both for your interest!!)

I wouldn’t say you’re harping, just asking a genuinely valid question. Questions are always welcome.

I’d like to first clarify that my point was not that Kankri’s character is offensive to AroAce people- it was that his Celibacy was set up in a way that’s meant to have overlap with/be analogous to his textual AroAcehood. Which, yes, is actually a thing:

I’m not denying that his character is offensive to AroAce people. It, in fact, very much so is, speaking as an AroAce person, but the focal point of my argument was that his Celibacy was set up to also be a shot at AroAces. Technically the same argument, but tackled from slightly different angles. One is addressing the real-world effects of the writing, the other is addressing authorial intent. As always, I am pedantic.

The reason this is a- as much as I loathe to use this word- problematic analogy within this specific context is because Kankri’s Celibacy is clearly defined as a choice that he made that he is bad at mentally and emotionally committing to. It adds a whole new layer of upset to his extremely creepy, almost stalker-ish behavior towards Latula. Hussie seems to view AroAces as nothing more than sexually repressed closet creeps that are actually secretly AmatoAllo.

It’s practically physically impossible to argue against the notion that Kankri’s Religiosity is deeply and purposefully intertwined with his status as a Tumblr Parody. The setup is actually pretty clever- if you lean too hard in either direction, it’s a failed reading. Yes, his religious theming is backed by the fact that he is a Pre-Scratch iteration of The Sufferer, but when you take a step back… Not only is it a very literal approach to the fact that Online Political Discourse in that era specifically was known for being “preachy,” but it’s also a pretty clever nod to the idea of a Savior Complex.

His Discoursing is tied to the image of a Sermon, his need to police people to maximize comfortability is tied to a Savior Complex, which is tied to the fact that he is The Signless, his Celibacy is tied to his AroAcehood. Simple equation. If all of his Religious Language and Imagery is also simultaneously tied to him being a Tumblr Parody, then his state of being Celibate- a Religious Practice- and his state of being on the AroAce spectrum- at the time seen as a confusing, Tumblr-specific label- are… You know, more likely than not also connected. It makes significantly more sense if it is- I find no plausible reasoning why that would not have been Hussie’s intention if that’s exactly what they did with so many other details in Kankri’s character.

#it’s a matter of occams razor basically!#homestuck #homestuck meta #homestuck analysis #alpha trolls #beforan trolls #dancestors #kankri vantas #kankri.pdf #kankri.prtsc #nekro.pdf #nekro.sms

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nekropsii · 2 years

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What's your take on Aranea? Because I noticed a lil trend with the alpha trolls being a stereotype of?? Internet, or simply a stereotype.

Like with Kankri being an sjw stereotype, Latula with her rad girl thing, though that's probably because she's a Knight class

Okay, this ask is unintentionally a bit of a doozy, full of a lot of things I feel I need to address and talk about in order for this to be a complete conversation. You came to the Wordy Bullshit + Analyses blog, and now you’re getting Wordy Bullshit + Analyses.

Let’s talk about the Alpha Trolls and Beta Trolls, and how they play into the theme of Internet Archetypes. I swear I get to the crux of your ask- being Aranea- in this. Just sit tight for a bit while I ramble my head off!

Content Warning: Long.

Firstly, I have to clarify that while yes, the recurring theme of Alpha Trolls being largely Internet Archetypes is very much so intentional, and you’re correct to notice it, I must also point out that that’s not at all just an Alpha Trolls thing. That’s a “Trolls in general” thing. The Beta Trolls are also like that. They’ve always been like that. That’s actually where the species name of “Troll” came from- they’re Internet Trolls.

Trolls in general are a little more complicated than just being Stereotypes or Parodies through and through. All of them, and I mean all of them- yes, including your fave- started as joke characters. Sometimes either of these traits manifest in good ways, sometimes they manifest in bad ways.

Since you brought up Kankri, I’ll use him as an example: On a surface level, Kankri is a parody of, quite specifically, early 2010’s Tumblr SJW Culture. Everyone is aware of this. What a lot of people don’t realize is that there’s a lot of overtones of how Internet-based SJW Politics/Identity Politics had most of their conversations and spaces absolutely dominated by white, clueless, hyper-online teens who didn’t have any tangible life experience or any real comprehension of real world social issues.

A lot of people who regularly engaged in that particular flavor of online politics at the time- especially to the point of dedicating a majority of their persona to it- were mostly just making the acceptance and celebration of diversity a significantly harder feat than their flavor of Discourse for Discourse’s Sake would initially leave you to believe. He actively shuts down anyone discussing their own experiences as a minority by policing their language, and even at times claiming their experiences aren’t real, he only ever gives himself space to truly talk, he’s actually very interestingly anti-recovery, and he’s willingly aiding in the oppression of what is, to him, real world minorities. He sucks up to those higher on the Hemospectrum than him, and regularly partakes in Punching Down- often making Disabled Lowbloods and Women his main targets for unapologetic expressions of his own deep-seated bigotry.

He is, at his heart, not just a parody of “Tumblr SJW Culture,” but specifically of how that era’s brand of Online Political Discourse was often being infected with the type of person who claims to be significantly more progressive than they actually are. He’s hiding his own bigotry, internalized or not, behind pseudo-progressive buzzwords that he, more often than not, will admit to have made up, and/or have fabricated the alleged grave importance of it. He’s significantly more conservative than a lot of people give him credit for, and that’s a damn shame, because it genuinely gives more intrigue to his character, even if it’s in kind of a fucked up way.

As for Latula: Her archetype is less the idea of a “Rad Girl,” and more the idea of a “Gamer Girl.” Weird distinction to make at first, until you consider the crux of her character is how in order to survive in most Gamer Circles online as a woman, you had to both embrace and/or adopt some level of Misogyny. Latula’s whole persona is very much so steeped in a kind of Internalized Misogyny that I don’t see people talk about, like… Ever. The crux of her persona is very much so based in overemphasizing how girls can be just as good as guys at gaming. She’s very deeply struggling with the coexistence of her hobbies and her gender, and just how hostile people who share her interests can be to her just because she’s a woman.

@scalematez can do a much better, more in-depth analysis of Latula than I can, but that’s essentially the core of what her deal is.

As for Aranea? If I had to wager any guesses about her, she’s very much so a “Fandom Blogger,” just like Meulin, though instead of a focus on Shipping and Fanfiction- the more traditionally “Fandom” aspects of Fandom- Aranea is a Media Analysis blog with way too much knowledge about very niche trivia. I’d also say she’s a WordPress native, rather than a Tumblr native like Meulin is. She’s the Quiet Nerdy Bookworm Girl archetype who spends a lot of time in libraries. She’s the absolute antithesis to Vriska’s character. Give her a while, and she’ll discover that she can make Video Essays on whatever she wants, and everything that was ever wrong with her will suddenly be cured.

#maybe I went on for a little too long about Kankri. oops.#hope you like this anyway!#homestuck #homestuck analysis #homestuck meta #alpha trolls #beforan trolls #dancestors #aranea serket #kankri vantas #latula pyrope #aranea.pdf #kankri.pdf #latula.pdf #nekro.pdf #nekro.sms

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nekropsii · 2 years

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Thoughts on the concept of "transblooded" trolls as mentioned in kankris rant?

My thoughts are that Kankri says himself, by his own admission, that he makes up social issues to get upset about and invents new kinds of guys in his brain that do not exist to start discourse over. In his own words, his politics are a patchwork of highly theoretical things which he made up and don’t actually matter. Don’t take any supposed politics he harps on seriously. He barely even believes in it himself, lol.

Being “Transblooded” absolutely is not real. Just seems like the troll equivalent of being (the new definition of) transracial. Don’t know what else to say on the matter.

#hope this helps?#homestuck #homestuck meta #alpha trolls #beforan trolls #dancestors #kankri vantas #kankri.pdf #nekro.pdf #nekro.sms

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nekropsii · 2 years

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semi-regarding the last ask, any thoughts on kankri in a queerplatonic relationship? I've always found QPRs fun to explore when it comes to aro/ace characters, especially as a questioning aromantic myself lol. didn't have any particular parring in mind but if you have any you'd find interesting to talk about go wild :pp

[Re: This Ask.]

I think there needs to be more acknowledgment of QPRs in general, honestly. Too many people put way too much stock in “Traditional Romance,” as I call it- especially Red Romance. That’s literally nowhere even close to all the forms of deep, valuable connections you can have with people, and sometimes something Inherently Platonic is genuinely just significantly better for a character than something Inherently Non-Platonic and/or Inherently Romantic. Sometimes a QPR is good for a character in a way Romance isn’t. Sometimes a familial relationship is good for a character in a way Romance isn’t. Sometimes a best friend is good for a character in a way Romance isn’t.

A QPR might be good for Kankri. It depends on the execution of it, though, as always. One of the things he needs the most is to connect with other people… He is a Seer of Blood, after all. I personally imagine his way of navigating a QPR would be more recognizable as a particularly close friendship than anything perceivable as romantic- QPRs are a vast and variable thing, and how it manifests really does depend on the person and the relationship itself. Much room to experiment.

I personally cannot think of anyone he’d be in a QPR with as far as canon goes, but I can’t see it being just completely off the table for him. He might be AroAce, but he definitely seems to desire some form of deeper connection with people. It’s a very real, genuine struggle- one that’s hard to process, and rarely talked about- and I can’t imagine that a lot of people would understand him or have the language to explain how this is normal to him… But that’s just my own personal wild ideas. He’s fun to think about.

#homestuck #homestuck meta #homestuck analysis #homestuck headcanons #homestuck fandom #alpha trolls #beforan trolls #dancestors #kankri vantas #kankri.pdf #nekro.pdf #nekro.sms

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nekropsii · 2 years

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ok here. kankris worldviews oppose having babies and kissing or whatever the fuck. so is shipping him-for example-- with damara, a problematic ship?

[Re: This Ask.]

Alright, you’ve activated a lot of pedantic drivel with this question, especially considering how rude your approach has been. Sorry in advance, I guess!

I’m going to keep it real with you, anon. Considering Kankri’s status of Celibacy was a shot at AroAce people, the first part of your message here does not read too well. I’ll definitely give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn’t realize this, because most people either don’t process it or simply ignore it, but I cannot in good faith leave that unmentioned.

To be honest, I think “shipping” is an incredibly- almost dangerously- vague term that means something different to literally everyone online, and it’s an especially vague term when we’re talking about Homestuck. It’s counterintuitive to ask a question as nebulous as this. I understand that I’m supposed to assume this is both Romantic and Sexual, but… I think it would really help if people maybe specified the dynamic they’re talking about when it comes to asking these kinds of questions?

I literally can’t make a blanket statement about this. Not only do I not care, but you can “ship” something in any way you can physically think of. It’s just a shortening of the term “relationship.” You can ship two characters as friends. You can ship two characters as lovers, sexually or non-sexually. You can ship two characters as exes or divorcees. You can ship two characters as friends with benefits with no strings attached. Hell, sometimes people will pair two characters that they know are horrible together because the matchup provides enough psychological intrigue to keep them invested. Sometimes people pair characters together because they find the toxicity of the dynamic to be uniquely enriching. Some people “ship” for fun, some people “ship” for comfort, some people “ship” for story.

I can’t make a blanket statement on something as broad as “Do you think shipping (random, entirely disconnected characters) is problematic,” especially when there’s barely any weight or context behind it, and double-especially when that sounds like such a bait question. I’m willing to respond to inquiries like this when there is a specific weight or context behind them- be it from personal, moral, and/or narrative perspective- but your questions don’t hold any of that. There’s nothing to pick apart, and there’s nothing to analyze, outside of the monologue I’m going off on now. You come across as simply asking me to make an accusation based on a nebulous statement that can be interpreted in so many ways it’s hard to find a place to start. I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing, because I literally do not and cannot know what your intentions are, that’s just my current field of perspective here.

I can safely say that I personally find the idea of pairing Kankri off with people Romantically and/or Sexually to be offputting, and it’s not something you’ll ever see me do on the basis of Kankri’s Celibacy being analogous to AroAcehood. I don’t see an issue in pairing him off with people in the way of Platonic Friendship, no matter how Healthy or Unhealthy it is. If someone else pairs Kankri with someone Romantically and/or Sexually, that’s their prerogative, not mine. It’s not block-worthy or anything for me on base concept- just something I look at, get kind of uncomfortable with, and then move on.

Things like Cronus/Mituna get such in-depth responses from me because they have a specific weight and context behind them, personally, morally, and narratively. Kankri- to our knowledge- never actually abused anyone. He’s a total shithead, and absolutely a bully at times, but we have legitimately no reason to assume he has ever outright abused anyone to the same severity as, for example, Cronus or Meenah. The worst things he has done in that regard is be a total creep to Latula, and severely ableist to Mituna. (Uncoincidentally, this is why I personally find Mituna/Kankri/Latula to be so deeply uncomfortable, especially given its popularity...)

To address your example: I don’t think he has particularly hurt Damara any more than he’s hurt any other Lowblooded, Disabled, Insecure, and/or Female Character, I don’t think he has been particularly creepy to her either. I have no true reason to have any personal vendetta against the vague idea of Kankri and Damara being romantically intertwined with each other, other than personal taste, and finding its base concept to be unrealistic, unfounded, and generally just kind of lame. It’s not my thing. I don’t care for it. I don’t personally see it. If I see it in the wild, then I’ll just keep scrolling like I didn’t see anything. What do you want from me.

#homestuck #homestuck ship #homestuck fandom #alpha trolls #kankri vantas #damara megido #latula pyrope #mituna captor #cronus ampora #meenah peixes #kankri.pdf #nekro.pdf #nekro.sms

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nekropsii · 2 years

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hey so ive been seeing a lot of this and one conflicted on the matter so id like to hear your thoughts on the matter. i think ie already have an idea of what you think about cronus and mituna, but what about cronus and kankri? i don't know what to think about it and stuff so

To reinforce what I think about Cronus and Mituna: Cronus is an awful fucking person who horribly abuses Mituna just because he knows he can get away with it. If I see one more person say they’re in a Kismesissitude, I will explode. There’s also a Cassandra-Apollo/Ajax the Lesser dynamic going on that’s genuinely interesting, but the only person I’ve ever seen talk about that is me.

Cronus and Kankri have a “nothing” relationship to me. I genuinely do not understand the hype behind the prospect of them being romantically involved with each other… Not only does it not make any sense, but I literally only see content of it where they’re either horrifically mischaracterized, and/or they’re actively sucking and fucking each other. It’s very… Yaoified, it always has been, and so deeply entrenched in gross fanon mischaracterizations that I physically cannot bring myself to enjoy it at all. Do not try to recruit me into “seeing the light.”

To me, they’re just friends- you know, something that two male characters can, in fact, be!- but they make each other worse, and not in a fun way. Kankri in particular would be very, very badly affected by the relationship. Cronus is absolutely the person with the most power here, and he’d take advantage of that. Kankri is so focused on his own Savior Complex and his need to be friends with everyone that I don’t think he’d be completely cognizant of the dynamic. I fully believe Kankri deserves better friends than people like Cronus. He’s very easy to take advantage of.

#Kankri is a shithead but he doesn’t fucking deserve to be trapped in a relationship with a sleazy abuser #Jesus.#homestuck #homestuck fandom #homestuck analysis #alpha trolls #cronus ampora #mituna captor #kankri vantas #cronus.pdf #mituna.pdf #kankri.pdf #nekro.pdf #nekro.sms

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nekropsii · 2 years

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Hello! Ive recently found your blog and I have been looking at the posts about Kankri, makes me remember how he reacted when he had grub sauce on his face and Porrim was going to wipe it off, and he (as far as i know) for the first time, went LIVID. Insisting that he could do it himself. So now that I know more about how he was raised, and what part of Beforus was most likely CANON, is so fascinating. And I'm more intrigued by his character.

Yeah, Kankri absolutely fucking hates being coddled. He’s definitely dealt with way too much of it in his lifetime! I can’t blame him at all for flipping his lid. His experience with culling is something I’m quite sympathetic towards, in all honesty.

Glad I could enhance his character for you! A lot of people seem to misconstrue, misremember, or misunderstand his character, which is a damn shame to me. Kankri is genuinely interesting. He’s just also an absolute dumbass bastard who invents problems to get mad at. Typical Vantas behavior, honestly.

#homestuck #alpha trolls #kankri vantas #porrim maryam #kankri.pdf #nekro.pdf #nekro.sms

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nekropsii · 2 years

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As someone who was raised in the Mormon church for a unfortunate more than half my life, I'm really interested in sovstuck Kankri. I'd love to hear pretty much anything about him and his upbringing. It's nice to see literally anyone who might've had a similar experience to mine, real or not

(also I gotta agree with everyone who says they like how you format your posts. They're so much easier to read)

Hey there, anon!! I’m really glad to hear you escaped- it can be pretty hard to leave the church, especially with religions like Mormonism. I do hope you’re recovering from it well.

Rest assured, sov!Kankri’s status as Ex-Mormon isn’t something that’s brushed under the rug. It’s not comparable to the Strilondes status of being Jewish- it actually significantly impacts his life, character, and how he relates to and interacts with others, especially considering he only left the church recently… Not by choice, but by excommunication. It very much so uprooted his entire life. He’s had to restart his entire journey as a Seer of Blood because of it.

I can only hope his arc brings you, or anyone else in his shoes, some level of catharsis, or at least proves itself to be comfortingly relatable. Sov!Kankri’s arc is one of the arcs I’m honestly most proud of, at least conceptually- all I can do is pray that I’m able to execute it in a way that does it justice.

#also thank you WRT the typing style!! glad it’s helped you!!#sovereignstuck #homestuck #homestuck fanventure #patron trolls #sov!kankri vantas #sov!kankri.pdf #nekro.pdf #nekro.sms

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ecoamerica · 24 days

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nekropsii · 2 years

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Since I've been thinking about this recently, what do you think it would have been like if kankri (and by extension the rest of the alpha trolls) had grown up on modern alternia? (Obviously we know what it was like for them to grow up in primitive(?) Alternia, but tbh the ancestors never really felt all that connected to the dancestors and I'm pretty sure the connection was an afterthought)

Interesting question! I’ll be largely focusing on Kankri here, since he’s the crux of the question. Putting this under the cut for its length.

T L;DR: Completely, utterly, irrecognizably different.

Content Warning: Mentions of Ableism, Classism, and Eugenics.

The social and political functions of Alternia, versus those of Beforus, is an interesting beast to study and speculate upon. It’s not one I see get acknowledged as frequently as I’d, personally, enjoy to see, and oftentimes when it is, it’s a fleeting one. Heavily watered down statements are made either in lack of understanding or for sake of brevity.

The first thing we need to address is this: Beforus is not a kind society.

Beforus isn’t a “nicer Alternia,” not by any means- that’s a misconception that I feel plagues analytical work surrounding the topic of the Beforans, and why they behave the way they do. The biggest change we need to keep in mind is the differences in Alternia’s definition of Culling, versus that of Beforus’s.

Culling, on Alternia, is defined by the legal killing those deemed undesirable for any reason. It is, to put it incredibly briefly, a form of violent eugenics. A prime example would be the murdering of mutantbloods- something touched upon rather heavily in Homestuck proper, due to it being the main source of Karkat’s natural state of hypervigilance. This definition, interestingly, is very much so marked by the classpect of their planet’s matriarchal dictator- Her Imperious Condescension, Thief of Life.

Culling, on Beforus, is defined by, essentially, the aggressive over-coddling of those deemed unfit to care for themselves for any reason. It’s steeped in a self-fallatingly progressive form of ableism and classism, and the parallels to how disabled people- especially autistics and the physically disabled- are “handled” in real life by people often claiming to be passionate allies are jarring.

Highbloods- rather than openly asserting their superiority by just straight up killing you, or doing the verbal equivalent of spitting in your eyes for being lesser- take on the roles of helicopter parents. They assume, automatically, that since they are highbloods and, say, people like Kankri- a mutant limeblood- aren’t, that they, by virtue of being a highblood, know better than the person they’ve deemed lesser than them do on matters of the self; On what they want, and what they need, and vigorously infantilize them at every step and turn. This is, interestingly, marked by the classpect of their matriarchal ruler- Feferi Peixes, Witch of Life.

These are two vastly different systems. They’re vastly different societies, and they function under vastly different social rules. I stated in a previous essay that a primary difference between the socialization of Beforan trolls versus that of Alternian trolls is a matter of Honest Eusociality vs. Dishonest Solitude.

Trolls are Eusocial Insects, and Beforan + Alternian trolls are not different species- they’re the same exact thing, except Beforus is honest about the Eusociality of their species, while Alternia beats it out of them and forces them into behaving like a Solitary species. It’s an important clarification to make here.

Kankri is used to the Honest Eusociality of Beforus, as well as it’s definition of Culling. While he does hold a significant amount of disdain for people assuming the role of a helicopter parent around him, it’s what he’s used to, what he grew up around, and it deeply affects him as a person. It affects his interactions with people, politics, and his environment. It’s why he’s so socially clueless, why he’s so comfortable sporting his blood color, and why he’s so blind to real world issues.

It’s because he can afford to do all these things, and be all these things.

He wouldn’t have this luxury on Alternia. As I said, this is a Eusocial species forced to behave as Solitary insects. It’s a violent society. Bloodshed is routine, death is expected, mourning is an abnormality. Friend is the same word as enemy, and love is the same word as pity. Kindness is whipped out of you. If you don’t fit the mold, you’re hunted for sport.

Kankri would have zero room for casual pride in his blood color. It would get him literally killed. He wouldn’t be capable of his trademark level of social unawareness. It would get him killed. He’d be granted with Karkat’s hypervigilance and paranoia by virtue of existing as flawed in a brutally cruel environment. He’d be hemoanonymous for sure. That much is unavoidable.

And he’s not going to be a modern rendition of The Signless- the key component to the equation to who The Signless is, and why he does what he does is not just an innate heroic nature. The Signless was the was he was because of the familial love and mercy of The Dolorosa amongst the extreme brutality of the rest of the world. The Dolorosa was his starting point. Modern Alternian Kankri would not have that.

Yes, Porrim would still be there in this scenario- but assuming the same set-up as the Beta/Alpha trolls is taking place, where they’re all the same age, it wouldn’t be the same as raising him. It’s not a replication of motherhood in a society where that form of love had never existed before, it’s just a mom friend.

As for how I think his traits would change… This is far less analytical, and more so just opinions.

He’d still be a bootlicker, though this time his efforts towards having good relationships with highbloods is an act of self preservation.

Still wordy, just less up his own ass; probably better at detecting when to stop, due to the climate.

Anxious. This is unavoidable.

Perhaps his online brain rot is a result of some form of agoraphobia- Leaving the house is dangerous. The home is a perfect safe place. Why bother going out?

Would definitely have gotten culled Alternia-style if it weren’t for the session.

Though, I must admit… I’m not the best at thoroughly envisioning concepts of “What if (X Character) was Alternian,” Alternian lore is not my expertise… I picked my niche and gunned for it hard. I’m the Beforan lore guy, lol.

At the very least, I do hope this did something for you… It really just turned into me comparing Alternian and Beforan societies, but I feel like making those comparisons helps make an outline for others to build their own concepts off of. That’s a much more nice and exciting concept for me than just plainly saying my opinion on it!

(… Plus… Brain full of Earth-C edition Alpha Trolls. Hehe.)

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nekropsii · 2 years

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The forever-repeated sentiment that analyzing the Alpha Trolls or taking any level of the content of their character seriously is “stupid” or “a waste of time” due to them being “intended purely as jokes,” especially regarding various social media cultures at the time, double especially in reference to the- at the time- current Homestuck fandom climate is… Aggravating.

Yes, the Alpha Trolls ARE, on various levels, easy to brush off as “purely joke characters,” but you want to know what else was? The Beta Trolls. They functioned practically the same exact way upon their initial release- the ENTIRE concept of Trolls in Homestuck is literally just based on Internet Trolls! Back in the day, they, too, were received largely as jokes! And they kind of were! A big reason we take them so seriously now is due to their inevitable plot relevance and screentime.

My prevailing hypothesis is that one of the few main reasons the Alpha Troll cast is/was often brushed aside as pure, unanalyzable parody and nothing else is the reverse of why the Beta Troll cast eventually WAS taken seriously- screentime! And their… Lack thereof. We take Meenah decently seriously, just as we take Aranea decently seriously- and that’s because out of the Alpha Troll cast, they got the most screentime!

Due to the nature of them being short-stay characters, their nature as being partially based in satire had to be... Well, inflated. Do you remember the first interactions the Beta Troll cast had with the Beta Kids, and how they were… Very much so more blatantly just Internet Trolls? That’s what I believe is going on. Everything had to be pushed to the max, obnoxious behavior due to a millennia’s worth of brain rot being put pedal to the metal. They’re very straightforward characters when you look solely at their interactions with each other, no thought to any deeper psychology... Kankri Vantas, Seer of Blood, is an amazing example of this who I often see... With offense intended to nobody, largely mishandled.

Off the bat, it’s very easy to recognize exactly what he, as a character, is parodying, ESPECIALLY if you were on Tumblr during his relevance. He’s largely a satirization of the at the time overwhelming, severely misguided Discourse and Callout Culture permeating through the then-present Tumblr sphere. Not only that, but the commentary on it as a whole and what kind of people for the most part perpetuated said online political climate was very, very interesting and, shockingly, very, very true. Let’s get this out of the way- Kankri is most definitely intended as a White Tumblr Teen circa 2013.

Kankri Vantas is an honestly pretty good tongue-in-cheek satirization of old Tumblr “Social Justice” politics in the fact that it was perpetuated largely by (mostly) white, very online, sheltered teens with little to no actual life experience in the things they want to advocate for or against. The result of this often meant an echo chamber-like circle of kids of similar age and experience regurgitating the same topics, buzzwords, opinions, etc. over and over again. Due to the nature of being a teenager, there’s a persisting need to feel both special and like you belong to something- which is where Kankri’s ties to MOGAI and otherkin come in. (This is not an invitation to start discourse on the validity of either, I am simply stating facts about the character.)

But there’s a few very important thing one needs to note about Kankri- of which needs preemptive statements. Yes, he is a minority himself in the fact that he is a mutant limeblood. No, this absolutely does not stop him from being an abhorrent little shit when it comes to minorities. Which was ABSOLUTELY a huge problem in old Social Justice circles, and it still is today! We see him exhibit this type of behavior several times- he’s EXTREMELY preachy about supporting any and every type of minority, but then we see him CONSTANTLY talking over and bullying actual minorities, even down to policing the language they use to describe their own experiences!

He openly harasses a once-physically disabled man for using words he CAN, in fact, reclaim, which he used in reference to himself to talk about his own experiences, (Rufioh)

Harasses another disabled man by calling said literally disabled man ableist and saying he’s “perpetuating a harmful stereotype,” not for saying or doing anything harmful, but for wearing something which he needs to wear due to his disability AND his hobbies- said item being a helmet, and said hobby being skateboarding- all of which is done in a condescending fashion. (Mituna)

Not to mention he actively denied systemic misogyny exists to a woman’s face even when given a very intellectual explanation as to why it does, as well as slut-shaming her several times, once again to her face. (Porrim)

This guy fucking sucks! And on top of that, a fun thing to notice is that he’s a total bootlicker! Everyone he harasses are minorities, oftentimes in more ways than one- he’s bullied Meulin, who is a deaf, lowblood woman, Rufioh, a lowblood man (of color!) who was once quadriplegic, Mituna, a lowblood bipolar man with brain damage, and Porrim, a midblood woman with a shamelessly active sex life! But he’s all supportive and buddy-buddy with Cronus, highblood pseudo-royalty who also harasses/abuses people with minority status!

There’s so much that’s worthy of discussion, even just pertaining to Kankri’s character- and he by far is not my favorite! All of that character, all of that psychology, hidden JUST beneath the surface-level reading of “Kankri is a Tumblr parody.” THAT’S why the Alpha Trolls getting brushed off so quickly as topics of analysis is just so frustrating to me! There’s so much to consider, so much to notice, so much to analyze, and plenty of room to fill in the blanks left by canon!

And if no one else is going to do that level of analysis on them, then I will. That is a threat AND a promise. Sylph’s honor!

#homestuck #homestuck analysis #homestuck fandom #alpha trolls #alpha session #kankri vantas #cronus ampora #rufioh nitram #porrim maryam #mituna captor #meulin leijon #kankri.pdf #nekro.pdf

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nekropsii · 2 years

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Do you think Kankri was culled on Beforus?

If using the Alternian definition of “Culled,” meaning killed for being an undesirable by the Empire's standards, no. He doesn’t have the social and spatial awareness or paranoia that would be granted to someone who lives in constant, justified fear of their life.

If using the Beforan definition of "Culled," meaning, essentially, cripplingly coddled, then yes, absolutely, and it shows.

Content Warning: Implied Ableism, Hemoloyalism.

Beforan culling is defined by an over-accommodation to special needs. Accommodating is a good thing, but Beforan culling is often laced with the overtone of this accommodation being excessive, overbearing, and treating those being accommodated to as if they are fragile and helpless. It's very…. Based in a sort of online liberal progressivism, where those who have special needs are treated basically like children.

It strips away autonomy from the less fortunate. It’s applying over-attention where it’s not needed. It’s disabling people from natural growth because you think basic life experiences would be too hard on them. It’s not healthy to be treated that way.

The way Kankri acts indicates he’s never actually been able to face any conflict or trauma because of a very, very cushy lifestyle. It’s a major root for his social and political unawareness. He doesn’t know what real problems are because he’s never really been allowed to face real issues or acknowledge that hardships exist. He’s never been in the position where he’s had to face genuine prejudice, or politically-charged slights, bullying, or abuse.

And because of this, he’s perpetuating the exact same issues he wants to protest about because he doesn’t know any better. He doesn’t know anything else, and challenging his worldview brings him major discomfort- and since discomfort most likely was not allowed in his life, he has zero god damn idea how to properly or healthily navigate it.

Genuine conflict is foreign to him. Conflict resolution is even MORE foreign to him. He’s been disabled of the ability to naturally grow, and disabled of the ability to have any true life experience because of how he was raised. It sucks, and it’s interesting, and his unnatural interactions with other people really shows how sheltered he is.

He’s incredibly privileged in a way that stripped him of his autonomy, and that’s a genuinely fascinating concept to me. Kankri is by no means ever correct, nor is he socially or politically aware enough to even come close to credibility, but the reasons behind his psychology are very interesting to pick apart.

#putting implied ableism in the cw there because the method in which culling is executed #is very much so reminiscent of how people will treat the disabled #homestuck #homestuck meta #homestuck analysis #alpha trolls #dancestors #kankri vantas #kankri.pdf #nekro.pdf #nekro.sms

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nekropsii · 2 years

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Could you give me any advice for writing Kankri or the Sufferer? He's quite wordy and I have no idea where to even start trying to write dialogue for him

Best piece of advice I can give to anyone and everyone is to reread the canon dialogue. Regularly.

FOR KANKRI: Watch this. Completely serious. Kankri is based on Tumblr’s extremely toxic discourse culture era, and I feel like this video is a great, condensed version of it. Be sure to add some religious stuff, too- Kankri himself isn’t religious, but he does utilize a lot of preacher theming. Also, he’s more self aware than people give him credit for- keep an eye out for that when you reread his dialogue. It’s kind of funny. Also, please do not be afraid to make him kind of an asshole. A lot of people really, really hold back on how much of a dick Kankri can be.

FOR THE SUFFERER: I’m no expert in the Ancestors, so I may not be the best person to ask this question. I’d reread the lore, and use Biblical imagery, stories, and retooled Bible quotes in near excess. Sometimes, for Christian-themed subplots, you have to read or know parts of the Bible. It sucks, but having some level of knowledge or context as to what you’re writing can really, really strengthen and solidify it. Also, I’m sure you’re already aware of this but please remember that the Ancestors are just Post-Scratch, Ancient Alternian versions of the Dancestors, NOT Ancient Alternian versions of the Beta Trolls. I see people make that mistake a lot. It’s been so many years. It hurts.

I’m refraining from making too many judgment calls here, because I lack some context, and again, I’m not an expert on the Ancestors. Do your research, though, and you should be fine. Same rule applies to writing literally any other character in the world. Character writing should, like, always involve research.

#but I feel like it’s one of the most potent examples of what he is #sorry for subjecting you all to Steven Universe discourse btw #homestuck #homestuck ancestors #alpha trolls #beforan trolls #dancestors #kankri vantas #the signless #the sufferer #kankri.pdf #signless.pdf #nekro.pdf #nekro.sms

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