#it really bothers me that people minimize the absolute goddamn horrors of every genocide by calling this a genocide | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

autismserenity · 5 months

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Nothing you say will change the undeniable fact that Israel has killed more than 1% of the civilian population of Gaza through indiscriminate bombing since the start of this war

this is why Hamas only reports total people killed, and doesn't separate out civilians and combatants. because it knows that you'll assume they were all civilians, despite zero reason to assume that. nobody else does it that way. every single country on earth reports civilians and combatants separately, because killing civilians is a war crime.

Part of the reason that this is really good propaganda is that if someone responds by clarifying that it was only ____ civilians, they will sound like they're minimizing, which will lead to immediately dismissing their point.

Hamas is honestly masterful at propaganda.

Which sucks.

Anyway, if you want Undeniable Facts or at least Numbers: there are 2.3M people in Gaza, of which 30,000-40,000 are Hamas military. An unknown number are Hamas leaders, cybersecurity, military academy staff, etc. None of that really makes a dent in a number like 2,300,000, though. As of the beginning of December, more than 5,000 of the 15k+ it had then killed were Hamas members, for a civilian:combatant casualty ratio of almost 2:1.

Meaning that it had killed almost 10,000 civilians. Which also sucks.

For the curious, here are the ratios of civilian:combatant deaths you get with the numbers here for various wars:

Mexican Revolution 1:1

WWI close to 1:1

WWII between 3:2 and 2:1

Korean War about 2:1

Vietnam War 2:1 at highest estimate, 1:1 at lowest

Russia-Afghanistan War between 5.6:1 and 20:1

Israel-Lebanon War 6:1

Both Chechen Wars 7.6:1

NATO in Yugoslavia most likely 4:1

Afghanistan War 0.4:1 (or if you treat the civilians as the basis for comparison, it's 1:2.5)

Iraq War 1:2 thru 2015, then 4.5:1

U.S. Drone attacks in Pakistan 1:5

Second Intifada between 1:1 and 2:1, with 59% of Palestinian and 69% of Israeli deaths being civilians

2008 Gaza War 3:2

2014 Gaza War between 1:1 and 3:1

Ukraine: 1:6 as of end of 2022 - surprisingly, this is the lowest ratio of any of the wars I've looked at

Israel-Hamas war as of beginning of December: 2:1. (15600 total, more than 5000 combatants.)

As of Dec 19, Israel has killed 19,667 people in Gaza. Let's see if we can get an actual number for how many of those are civilians.

I can't find an up-to-date number for combatants. It was 5,000+ on the 6th, and 7,000+ by the 10th,

It's been primarily fighting in Hamas strongholds that aren't SUPPOSED to have any civilians in them. Given that it killed three hostages, that's obviously not guaranteed. But that's why the number went up so fast.

As of the 19th, Israel has killed 4,000 people in about two weeks. At least half of those are combatants. But it's also wildly unlikely that it's only killed civilians since the 10th. Guessing that half of those deaths were combatants seems reasonable; it should be more, based on all the info we have.

That means that Israel may have killed 11,667 civilians, of maybe 2.27M civilians in Gaza. And killed 8,000 Hamas members, of maybe 30,000. (700 have also surrendered, last I checked.)

To be fair, separating out the combatant deaths doesn't do a lot to change what percent of civilians have been killed, because 2.3M is such a big number.

It's 0.6% with them, 0.5% without them. (Not 1%, fortunately.)

But it's always worth noting that Hamas is a lying group of liars that lied about having raped civilians en masse, lied about having killed civilians en masse, lied about wanting to specifically fight Israel and not Jews in the rest of the world, and is even happier to mislead people than it is to lie outright.

By contrast, it's about 30% of Hamas, between Israel killing its members being killed, and them surrendering.

I don't particularly like the number of terrorists killed either, tbh. Despite how enthusiastically some people misinterpreted what I said, I don't like it when anybody gets killed.

#it really bothers me that people minimize the absolute goddamn horrors of every genocide by calling this a genocide #genocide is not an adjective you use to show that you're REALLY REALLY EXTRA against the killing #you can be REALLY REALLY EXTRA AGAINST WAR without minimizing the genocidal rapes and the mass mutilation and all the rest #I have driven past rivers that were filled with blood during the California Genocide ffs #this is not about anon #anon didn't say anything about genocide #it's just making me think about how many groups had 60%-90% of their people wiped out in the most brutal ways possible #the kind of stuff that resembles what Hamas did but not what is happening to Hamas #i am going to stop thinking about examples of what Hamas did and not list them here in the tags #bc it is bad for everyone's mental health #mine included #this does not mean i will not post about it one of these days tho #wall of words

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