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#into a state of helplessness complacency state where he held the belief that his and A relationship only last inside the loop
lobpoints · 9 months
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some boring lc thoughts in dm with friend ig
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#i was telling my friend that I had some lc thoughts lately which they asked and I responded like a day after (distracted by yuri sorry)#also because I feel like I cannot articulate my thoughts without sounding like an inherently hateful or annoying person about it#there are more to this being that I talked about Benjamin pre LC behavior in the text but benjamin in LC loop behavior evolved#into a state of helplessness complacency state where he held the belief that his and A relationship only last inside the loop#which metaphorically meant that he believed A will have to remain as a hurtful person for their relationship to last#so Hokma's story just have his behavior toward A have this bit of him condemning A's behavior and go on his poor angela speech#and later on dwell into how it is actually OK for A and everyone to keep living like this because A could NEVER change anyway#and if A argues that he could that just mean that he COULDNT BE serious about it because lol something something repeated hurtful pattern#this is something he has in common with Angela as well because Angela's dialogues toward seed of light progressions express this exact#and it is when his meltdown come in where he poses as protector to protect whatever A hasnt destroyed yet#which later just dwell into him admitted that he was just being overly vebrose about his intention but in reality#it was mostly because he couldnt bear to part with A again#I do absolutely think what Benjamin/Hokma feel toward A is romatic attraction like he is literally gay so yeah#and the fact that in QnA PM has answered that Benjamin wasnt in the loop before Angela killed him and put him in so that why he got older#which makes sense because this place into the thematic that when he wanted to escape the loop or fix thing he actually#growing up#while as Hokma stuck in the loop and dealing with the above issues he started being ''stuck'' in a loop#like I cant with the popular fan theory of Benjamin is killed each loop and how tragic it is like#no it didnt happen and it would be frankly kinda lame im sorry#ok im being a hater again#there are more I wanted to say but I forgor them after writing till this point so uh
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Jonathan Levy: Type 9w1
A celebratory enneagram analysis for the wonderfully complex character Oscar brought to the table in Scenes From a Marriage.
So happy he got nominated for his performance. Forever bitter Jessica didn't (and i shall post a typing essay for her character as well).
Warning: this will be long. (Is it even surprising anymore?) And since this will be a very comprehensive enneagram analysis, i recommend you read the enneagram institute's description of Type Nine if you're not familiar with it!
I've seen that in the personality database the most common type people chose for Jonathan Levy was 5w6. I find this a little superficial and will explain why i actually consider Jonathan to be a type Nine with a One wing (or 9w1).
So it's easy to confuse Fives and Nines, but I think Jonathan was so trusting, idealistic, supportive, selfless (for the most part), and emotionally withdrawn that he's most definitely a Nine. His basic desire truly is to be in harmony and stability, with himself and with Mira. When she tore apart that harmony and stability, he didn't even know how to cope. Conversely, his basic fear is definitely loss and separation. He said it himself on episode four: “I think that my…extreme dependence on you—that's really what ruined everything for us, beyond repair, because that paralyzed me. The thought of losing you—the fear of losing you—because that would mean losing everything.”
Type Five's basic fear (being useless, helpless, or incapable) and basic desire (to be capable and competent) simply don't fit Jonathan very well. Never has he doubted his academic career and intellect. In fact he sometimes relied on it to feel at peace with himself and also to satisfy his principles and beliefs (characteristics of type Nine and One respectively). As academic as Jonathan is, he wasn't actually communicating his philosophies or theories in the series, and instead he communicated more emotionally and connected to the people he spoke with (even though he was mostly emotionally stunted). He was more likely to listen and unite with others than constantly isolating himself or becoming taciturn, nihilistic, or distrustful like a Five. (I'll speak later about how the finale implies a bit of these characteristics, but they still don't identify him as a Five in my head.) That being said he still is an introvert and values peace, so his social instances are fewer and simpler.
He seemed to have believed his relationship with Mira was doing okay (idealism, disconnect, denial), and he listened and went along with what Mira wanted or said in the first three episodes of the series (self-effacement, complacency, agreeableness). Instead of reacting emotionally or energetically to stress, he shut down. Sometimes he also resorted to passive aggression, silent treatments, or burying his negative emotions (and had terrible boundaries in the process, like in episode three where he almost had sex with Mira, which he did not want at all).
Mira stated that there was no passion in their relationship, that she didn't feel alive with him, and that he was burying his anger about the abortion (which he looked grieved by in episode one, even though he tried to pretend he wasn't and tried to deflect it by saying it was the right thing). The whole of episode two screams type nine (and also victim of childhood emotional neglect, but let's not get into that). He was emotionally numb, usually in stunned silence or bitter indifference—until she left, where began actually pleading for her to stay, and held her in a suffocating embrace to bid her from leaving. Then he tried to wipe away his tears, and exploded in anger at his friends' betrayal, but bit his hand to muffle his scream.
This leads to his One wing as well. He is not only out of touch with his instincts and self, he is also constantly in conflict with his emotions and needs because of his high moral standards. His need for emotional stability (as a nine), and his lean towards a spiritual or moral stability (because of his wing), led him to return to the familiarity of his Judaism. His wing to one also explains the times where he practically rebukes Mira for her own detachment and the way in which she neglected him, in eps 3 and 4 respectively. His nine-ness still softens the blow and makes him stutter and slip in apologies or reassurances (“I'm not—I'm not trying to be patronizing…” “I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be callous”); but there are many times that his wing leads him to try to convince Mira of his principles and of the dangers of glorifying loneliness and succumbing to nihilism. Again, this directly clashes against Five principles and supports his needs of harmony and unity as a Nine.
Let's not forget that usually, when he contended with Mira in episodes 2, 3, and 4, it was about Ava, but when he began his emotional growth in episode 3, he became far more self-aware and stood up for himself (mostly in episode four), which is a sign of his move to type three in growth. But then in the finale, he returned to an even worse state of stubborn detachment, a lower level of development; perhaps level 6 or 7. His cognitive dissonance and his abandonment of his morality left him justifying actual horrible decisions, like the affairs, and him neglecting his new family as well as himself in favor of his affair with Mira. (Jonathan, why?)
By the end of the show, he does imply a new cynicism in the way he is beginning affairs, trying to not emotionally attach to his wife and to destroy his morality. It's still a way to feel at peace, a trauma response to not allow for himself to be betrayed and abandoned like with Mira, who he trusted and depended on completely. It is also a coping mechanism to numb himself and dissociate. It is not an active search for decoding problems or solving them, and it is not a showcase of paranoia, self-destruction, or rejection of people, like with type five. What Jonathan is doing is a slow regression and deterioration because of self-neglect, until he becomes a numb shell of who he used to be (or hopefully finds healing).
He's just the biggest average-unhealthy type nine I've ever seen. I can't imagine him as any other type. And i wouldn't have been able to analyze him so profoundly if it wasn't for Oscar's performance as well as Hagai Levi's writing and directing (but dude, why didn't you write with the same depth for Mira?) So happy Oscar got that nomination!
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