“Death of the author” is for when they write the sequel that takes place enough years into the future that they can say that the heroic main character that you have come to love over the course of like fifty+ chapters/episodes is a horrible parent

this isn't meant to soften or reduce the objective transmisogyny + additional hate action going into this, but since the people running these harassment campaigns are acting like they're literal baby children who need their hands held to understand anything, maybe this needs to be said:

what you're doing and how you treat trans women on this website is fucking MEAN. if you want to sit there and honestly convince yourself that you're *not* a transmisogynist or a transphobe or a misogynist or any other type of bigot - like if you genuinely believe that and are confused why people are calling you these things - then maybe we need to start from little primary colored building blocks and tell you that you're being fucking mean and rude and actively harmful to real people who read the things you say. im not sure why we need to start off with "trans women have feelings" - just kidding I know exactly why we need to - but maybe you don't.

no matter who you're talking to, do you honestly think accusing someone you do not know of being a pedophile, en masse, behind their back /and/ in a public forum, is a reasonable way to treat someone for making a tumblr post about video games or political opinions? even if you strongly disagree with the post, you think someone deserves to be treated like that by people they don't know? take a second please and sincerely imagine how that would feel. wouldn't it be scary? wouldn't you wonder who the people were who thought this about you - if they're people you know - if they're just a few people that will continue saying mean things to you forever or if there are thousands of people who choose to dedicate their time and energy specifically to making you feel bad? if you accidentally write a post in the wrong tone or unknowingly interact with a shitty person, that there are uncountable people that will keep track of that just to hurt you later? that's fucking horrifying

and to zone in on what's specifically happening here: do you think randomly accusing people of being pedophiles or sexual abusers has no effect on them? like a lot of you tend to excuse yourself in these discussions by saying "I didn't actually see the context of what they were saying" or "I didn't see that they apologized already" or "I didn't actually understand the post was a joke" or whatever other kneejerk response to make sure *you* aren't seen as a bad person. do you realize that makes you look even meaner? you didn't bother to actually follow up on a thought you had about someone before sending them hateful messages or making public accusations about them? those actions are harmful whether or not you like the victim at the end of the day.

believe it or not some people you send this shit to are survivors of abuse themselves, or have their own historical personal reasons to be weighing in on a touchy subject. when you baselessly decide it's ok to call someone an abuser of any type, that person is probably *also* disgusted by whatever horrible shit you're accusing them of. as someone that hates these things as much as you do in order to attack someone for them: what do you think it's like to have complete strangers think that about you? how many eggshells would you walk on if random people thought so little of you that they were ok doing this?

it's mean. it's heinous, cruel bullying, and if you genuinely think you are not doing it from a place of transmisogyny or hatefuk bias over the victims' identity, then you need to understand that that's not an excuse. "i didn't even know she was trans" ok, it was still mean to call her a pedophile with 200 of your closest friends in public. "im trans so it can't be transphobia" ok it was still mean to assume someone was endorsing abuse when they were talking about being accused of abuse. "i didn't see the post where she said it was a joke" ok it was still mean to actively harass someone without bothering to look into the full context.

at the end of the day, yes, obviously I still think you're all transmisogynist assholes who are clearly willing to gang up on a woman who has nothing to do with your problems simply because she dared to speak on them. i think you're bigoted and unwilling to examine that if it means giving up your vitriol against someone who doesn't like your favorite video game or whatever excuse of the week. but like even if you were just doing it for love of the hate game, it's fucking weird heinous shit and i hope you're happy having that be a central part of your life

to be clear: im not transfemme and if I'm overstepping or talking over anyone please let me know. im not speaking for anyone's actual experiences except my own, which is the experience of being angry at how much literal bullying and harassment I see excused on this so-called progressive queer blogging website

Hello fellow fan who has been here since the beginning! I come from the “other side” I suppose, in that I do think the top/bottom discourse is worth talking about. It has to do with the elephant in the room which I haven’t seen anyone touch on – self-identified top!joe fans (in contrast to simply fans who enjoy or prefer content where joe tops). I remember the original top/bottom discourse coming out of a more general conversation about trends in fic (1)

Thank you fan!anon for sending me such a long, detailed message! Never apologize for writing me an essay since I always seem to be writing essays for other people in return lol. Also sorry it took a while to get to! This required a bit of preparation. You’ve given me a lot to respond to. I’m going to be putting the entirety of the ask under the cut and the tl;dr because this one is very, verrrryyyy long. 

Tl;dr- fan!anon talks about the history of top/bottom discourse in TOG and the issues of racism in our fandom. My response: my own feelings on the history of the top/bottom discourse in TOG and the current state of it. General issues I’ve observed in this fandom and the current discourse. Also, we shouldn’t ignore fandom racism, but I don’t think we should be looking at it through the lens of top/bottom, AND I think we should be focusing on misogyny, homophobia, etc. in addition to racism. Not ignore one for the other. 

Bottom line though, don’t harrass people, block people if you need to, focus on what you love, support fan creation and let’s try to be a better fandom. 

Okay, time to dig in!

Hello fellow fan who has been here since the beginning! I come from the “other side” I suppose, in that I do think the top/bottom discourse is worth talking about. It has to do with the elephant in the room which I haven’t seen anyone touch on – self-identified top!joe fans (in contrast to simply fans who enjoy or prefer content where joe tops). I remember the original top/bottom discourse coming out of a more general conversation about trends in fic (1) wherein Joe was more violent, less empathetic, often not religious, more aggressive in sexual scenarios, and also most often topping. People asked the fandom in general to simply consider, if that is how they perceive Joe, to reflect for themselves about implicit biases that could be colouring that interpretation. The self-identified top!joes used that conversation as a starting point to argue that the above interpretation of Joe, (2) and writing/drawing Nicky as smaller, almost twink-like, demure, more feminine (or writing fic where he was de-aged) was justified by canon (if you recall the multi-day argument about the approximately 1 inch height difference between Marwan and Luca) and connecting those ideas to top!joe just “making more sense” to them. In the hands of a good writer (of which we are blessed to have many in this fandom!), which character tops in an explicit fic is of no consequence to me. (3) But the concept of top!joe has, in my mind, become so closely tied with those fans who, a) interpret these characters and actions in a way that seems influenced by racial stereotypes and tropes and b) use that characterization as “justification” for top!joe. All this when I thought we all agreed that position preference has nothing to do with personality? (4) If someone sees Joe as a very masculine, aggressive, dom-type character (which is a bit of a one-note characterization to start, but I digress), that shouldn’t be related to him being a “top”, correct? Yet that is the interpretation and connection that the top!joes themselves make. So that’s why to me, the top/bottom framework continues to have some value, eve though in an ideal world it wouldn’t: (5) because some fans connect what should be a neutral sexual position preference to an interpretation of Joe’s character, an interpretation which I think doesn’t do him justice. I understand if you don’t want to publish this but I’m hesitant to talk off anon due to how heated this whole conversation is. I also don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or make them feel bad about how they are participating in the fandom, but I do think self-reflection in terms of how we engage is valuable. (6) And just to fully reiterate in case it wasn’t clear, my above points are specifically referring to who I think of as “top!joe only” fans as opposed to fans who enjoy or prefer content in which joe tops – only the former of which I am wary of. Anyways, sorry for this long message, and I hope I've been able to explain my reasoning. If we continue to disagree, thanks for reading this anyways and continuing the dialogue. Thank you also for promoting femslash events and content! (7)

So....I did say in a previous post that I’m not a big fan of hearsay, and I’m sorry but… that’s kind of what you’ve given me. A lot of “this is what Top!Joe Only people have said” and “this is what the rest of the fandom has said back.” I have to ask, who are these “Top!Joe Only” people that are on the other side of this fandom war? Who are the people representing the “rest of the fandom”?  The only names I could really come up with myself are the Top!Joe Server mods as top!Joe only fans, and they haven’t exactly been active recently. Not to mention the Top!Joe server mod @karanoidandroid was the focus of the Art Theft and Bullying debacle a while back (here) which even if you disagree with her… that’s not the way you treat people. Full stop. 

But anyway, to break this down, you’ve said that top!joe only fans wanted to interpret Joe in a way that was “more violent, less empathetic, less religious, more sexually aggressive, and topping (most of the time)” and that Nicky is “smaller, more twink-like, more demure and feminine” and that the hardcore top!joe stans are using this interpretation as a reasoning for liking top!joe explicit fics (and for underage fic?)

Er, honestly, I’ll have to disregard the “less religious” comment in this one. Lucyclairedelune has talked about it very eloquently here. As for the rest, let’s say these opinions were expressed on tumblr in July, just when the fandom was getting started. However, after personally going through all the Explicit July fics, I gotta say, the overwhelming majority of writers are focused on romantic Malta sex vacations lol. 

From my personal observations (I started reading fic on ao3 in August), I’ve seen some stories that cater to very… specific tastes (mostly kinkmeme fics so I’m not going to touch that) and some that have…. been written in poor taste perhaps. But, honestly, the majority of fics (aka G, T, M rated) that I’ve seen? I would say that they were written with care and concern for the character’s portrayal. 

Now, some fans (usually older fans) are very focused on “your kink is not my kink” and other fans feel this is an inappropriate way to view “racist, homophobic, islamophobic, etc” fics. And I agree with that. If people are using kink to excuse racism, homophobia, islamophobia, transphobia, antisemitism, misogyny, etc, in fics: Fuck that. But I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding flying around when people react to ‘ykinmk”. This fandom likes to assume the worst of their fellow fans imo, and I honestly don’t think that when a person defends kink that they’re trying to defend racism. They’re trying to defend their kink community which, historically, has been attacked and misunderstood by the purity police. Look into the Livejournal, ffnet, and even the Tumblr purges if you don’t believe me. 

For the record, I don’t know anyone on tumblr personally. We’re all effectively strangers talking to each other on the internet, so I’m not going to make assumptions about people from stories they’ve posted on AO3 or the kinkmeme. If you want to talk about the issues those fics represent, that’s cool, but don’t harass people whose life stories you don’t know (and don’t vagueblog about them). (This is just a general statement, not saying this about you anon! I feel really strongly about this.)

Now you say, “some fans connect what should be a neutral sexual position preference to an interpretation of Joe’s character” and I hate to say it, but there are ALWAYS going to be some people who have awful opinions. Ones that are either truly terrible, or kind of in poor taste, or maybe you just don’t vibe with them. Personally, I don’t have enough time in the day to address every weird thing that a person spews on the internet. I won’t judge if you want to take them on, but, personally, I haven’t seen any recent militant top!joe only posts that are calling for racist portrayals. I see people referring to past conversations, for sure, but again, I can’t do anything with hearsay. 

And honestly, we keep bringing up the top/bottom discourse of early TOG fandom, and we’re just not the same fandom we were then. SO MANY people have left the fandom in that time-- a lot of big name (or simply well known) fans and a lot of MENA fans. Regardless of what “side” you’re on in this, we all lose by focusing on the positions, by dividing everyone by “top” or “bottom” or “switch” fans, and by bringing up what people said in July, or August, or September.  It’s exhausting, especially because I think a lot of people have done exactly what you said. Many authors HAVE self-reflected, they’ve thought about trends, the implications, and are contributing/interacting with the fandom as best as they can. Do I think we should stop focusing on self-reflection? That we should stop being careful about writing potentially damaging portrayals of our favorite characters? NO. Let’s keep at it! Let’s encourage others to do the same… but not with top/bottom discourse.

Let it be known that I don’t think racism is a topic we should disregard to focus on other things. Honestly, I would be happy if people gave some of the energy they have for “top/bottom” discourse to talk about the portrayal of Nile Freeman or Lykon or Copley or Quynh… the other POC representation in TOG that usually gets ignored. You may interpret this as me going “but what about??” and that’s fair. I just think that we talk about Joe ALL THE TIME in this fandom. There is an avalanche of conversation and content for this man (who I love, don’t get me wrong) and it just feels really disingenuous (to me) to talk ad nauseum about racist portrayals of Joe, but then to ignore Nile Freeman and wlw fics when Nile is the rare Black Female Action Protagonist and Andy/Quynh is an extremely rare interracial canon lesbian couple. And I’ve been trying to use my blog here to bring attention to this, think of me what you will because of that. (Again just a general statement anon! Not directed to you XD)

And from what I’ve seen in this fandom (and many others to be fair) is that we care about racism SO MUCH…but only when talking about how a man has sex.  It speaks of a lack of intersectional understanding of these topics, disregarding the misogyny that IS ALSO inherent in fandom, and disregarding the homophobia of overfocusing on the top/bottom dynamics. BUT I’m not asking you to ignore racism; all I’m asking is for you to focus on the other issues too. 

Bottom line though… the discourse is not what it once was.  A lot of people, on whatever side, have left the fandom, or have taken a break, or are vocally tired of “top/bottom” discourse. Personally, I think we should talk about racism… but not through the lens of explicit mlm fic sex positions. Let’s talk more about race, gender, sex and sexual orientation, but not in a way that divides the fandom, in a way that makes people sick of being here, in a way that kills our content creator’s passion. Honestly, I think it can be done! But only if we work toward that goal together. 

I would like to focus on encouraging events in our community, such as the ongoing Old Guard Big Bang 2021 event and the upcoming Femslash Fortnight Spring Solstice Edition event. If anyone is organizing other events, let me know and I’ll hype you up! But as for the rest, I’m tired, you’re tired, we’re all tired. Let’s try and work harder to be a kinder, more inclusive fandom in the future, for everyone’s sake. 

by aletterinthenameofsanity

They turn the corner and Sander turns on the flashlight on their phone, turning it up to illuminate-

"Fuck," Joana breathes, seeing the absolute masterpiece in front of her, Robbe's face surrounded by halos of light and energy. It's easy for her gaze to trace the various lines of the painting, the sheer talent and love covering the entirety of the artwork.

Then Sander looks back to them, watching for their expressions, and she can see the vulnerability in his gaze as he waits for their reactions, for their expressions. He's baring his soul to them in the same way that Eliott did with Polaris, the same way that Even did with The Boy Who Couldn't Hold His Breath Underwater, the same way that David did with his Only Boy Awake film, the same way that Nico did with his EP The Last Lovers On Earth, the same way that Joana did with her painting series Coming Back.

This is the masterpiece he created as a sheer explosion of his feelings, the closest thing he could make to love in art form. This is his soul, bared on a wall, for everyone to see how he feels about the love of his life.

(After a bad experience at a bar, Sander takes the other Evens out to see the mural. Fluff ensues.)

Words: 4213, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English

Series: Part 9 of if this love is pain (then darling let's love tonight)

Fandoms: SKAM (Spain), Druck | SKAM (Germany), WTFock | Skam (Belgium), SKAM (Italy), SKAM (France), SKAM (Norway)

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: F/F, M/M

Characters: Joana Bianchi Acosta, David Schreibner, Sander Driesen, Even Bech Næsheim, Niccolò Fares, Eliott Demaury, Matteo Florenzi, Cristina "Cris" Soto Peña

Relationships: Joana & David & Even & Sander & Eliott & Nico, Cristina "Cris" Soto Peña/Joana Bianchi Acosta, Matteo Florenzi/David (Druck), Niccolò Fares/Martino Rametta, Sander Driesen/Robbe IJzermans, Even Bech Næsheim/Isak Valtersen, Eliott Demaury/Lucas Lallemant, Joana Bianchi Acosta & David Schreibner

Additional Tags: Harassment, Transphobia, don't worry both get shut down pretty quick, all the Evens hang out at a club, POV Joana, Friendship, hi the evens are all rather protective of each other, and they all deserve to be protected, the back half of the story is really soft, and all about how fucking beautiful each evak story really is, there's a whole discussion about art and shit, also it's not important but, I'M STILL NOT OVER THE RED STRING SCENE IN SKAMIT, so it might have gotten mentioned, round of applause for every Even's sheer love for their partners, dude just realized i've done at least 1 fic in this series for each pairing, and nearly all of them have been from the evens POV, Oops?, HI WTFOCK IS SCARING ME SO HERE'S A FIC TO COPE, Alright looks like Sander has an MI this series is officially canon divergent, hope y'all don't mind, after that last clip here's something to make you guys all feel better

i have been to the movies, i've seen how it ends (and the joke's on them)

by aletterinthenameofsanity

They turn the corner and Sander turns on the flashlight on their phone, turning it up to illuminate-

"Fuck," Joana breathes, seeing the absolute masterpiece in front of her, Robbe's face surrounded by halos of light and energy. It's easy for her gaze to trace the various lines of the painting, the sheer talent and love covering the entirety of the artwork.

Then Sander looks back to them, watching for their expressions, and she can see the vulnerability in his gaze as he waits for their reactions, for their expressions. He's baring his soul to them in the same way that Eliott did with Polaris, the same way that Even did with The Boy Who Couldn't Hold His Breath Underwater, the same way that David did with his Only Boy Awake film, the same way that Nico did with his EP The Last Lovers On Earth, the same way that Joana did with her painting series Coming Back.

This is the masterpiece he created as a sheer explosion of his feelings, the closest thing he could make to love in art form. This is his soul, bared on a wall, for everyone to see how he feels about the love of his life.

(After a bad experience at a bar, Sander takes the other Evens out to see the mural. Fluff ensues.)

Words: 4213, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English

Series: Part 9 of if this love is pain (then darling let's love tonight)

Fandoms: SKAM (Spain), Druck | SKAM (Germany), WTFock | Skam (Belgium), SKAM (Italy), SKAM (France), SKAM (Norway)

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: F/F, M/M

Characters: Joana Bianchi Acosta, David Schreibner, Sander Driesen, Even Bech Næsheim, Niccolò Fares, Eliott Demaury, Matteo Florenzi, Cristina "Cris" Soto Peña

Relationships: Joana & David & Even & Sander & Eliott & Nico, Cristina "Cris" Soto Peña/Joana Bianchi Acosta, Matteo Florenzi/David (Druck), Niccolò Fares/Martino Rametta, Sander Driesen/Robbe IJzermans, Even Bech Næsheim/Isak Valtersen, Eliott Demaury/Lucas Lallemant, Joana Bianchi Acosta & David Schreibner

Additional Tags: Harassment, Transphobia, don't worry both get shut down pretty quick, all the Evens hang out at a club, POV Joana, Friendship, hi the evens are all rather protective of each other, and they all deserve to be protected, the back half of the story is really soft, and all about how fucking beautiful each evak story really is, there's a whole discussion about art and shit, also it's not important but, I'M STILL NOT OVER THE RED STRING SCENE IN SKAMIT, so it might have gotten mentioned, round of applause for every Even's sheer love for their partners, dude just realized i've done at least 1 fic in this series for each pairing, and nearly all of them have been from the evens POV, Oops?, HI WTFOCK IS SCARING ME SO HERE'S A FIC TO COPE, Alright looks like Sander has an MI this series is officially canon divergent, hope y'all don't mind, after that last clip here's something to make you guys all feel better

source http://archiveofourown.org/works/21686755

i have been to the movies, i've seen how it ends (and the joke's on them)

by aletterinthenameofsanity

They turn the corner and Sander turns on the flashlight on their phone, turning it up to illuminate-

"Fuck," Joana breathes, seeing the absolute masterpiece in front of her, Robbe's face surrounded by halos of light and energy. It's easy for her gaze to trace the various lines of the painting, the sheer talent and love covering the entirety of the artwork.

Then Sander looks back to them, watching for their expressions, and she can see the vulnerability in his gaze as he waits for their reactions, for their expressions. He's baring his soul to them in the same way that Eliott did with Polaris, the same way that Even did with The Boy Who Couldn't Hold His Breath Underwater, the same way that David did with his Only Boy Awake film, the same way that Nico did with his EP The Last Lovers On Earth, the same way that Joana did with her painting series Coming Back.

This is the masterpiece he created as a sheer explosion of his feelings, the closest thing he could make to love in art form. This is his soul, bared on a wall, for everyone to see how he feels about the love of his life.

(After a bad experience at a bar, Sander takes the other Evens out to see the mural. Fluff ensues.)

Words: 4213, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English

Series: Part 9 of if this love is pain (then darling let's love tonight)

Fandoms: SKAM (Spain), Druck | SKAM (Germany), WTFock | Skam (Belgium), SKAM (Italy), SKAM (France), SKAM (Norway)

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: F/F, M/M

Characters: Joana Bianchi Acosta, David Schreibner, Sander Driesen, Even Bech Næsheim, Niccolò Fares, Eliott Demaury, Matteo Florenzi, Cristina "Cris" Soto Peña

Relationships: Joana & David & Even & Sander & Eliott & Nico, Cristina "Cris" Soto Peña/Joana Bianchi Acosta, Matteo Florenzi/David (Druck), Niccolò Fares/Martino Rametta, Sander Driesen/Robbe IJzermans, Even Bech Næsheim/Isak Valtersen, Eliott Demaury/Lucas Lallemant, Joana Bianchi Acosta & David Schreibner

Additional Tags: Harassment, Transphobia, don't worry both get shut down pretty quick, all the Evens hang out at a club, POV Joana, Friendship, hi the evens are all rather protective of each other, and they all deserve to be protected, the back half of the story is really soft, and all about how fucking beautiful each evak story really is, there's a whole discussion about art and shit, also it's not important but, I'M STILL NOT OVER THE RED STRING SCENE IN SKAMIT, so it might have gotten mentioned, round of applause for every Even's sheer love for their partners, dude just realized i've done at least 1 fic in this series for each pairing, and nearly all of them have been from the evens POV, Oops?, HI WTFOCK IS SCARING ME SO HERE'S A FIC TO COPE, Alright looks like Sander has an MI this series is officially canon divergent, hope y'all don't mind, after that last clip here's something to make you guys all feel better

source http://archiveofourown.org/works/21686755

by aletterinthenameofsanity

They turn the corner and Sander turns on the flashlight on their phone, turning it up to illuminate-

"Fuck," Joana breathes, seeing the absolute masterpiece in front of her, Robbe's face surrounded by halos of light and energy. It's easy for her gaze to trace the various lines of the painting, the sheer talent and love covering the entirety of the artwork.

Then Sander looks back to them, watching for their expressions, and she can see the vulnerability in his gaze as he waits for their reactions, for their expressions. He's baring his soul to them in the same way that Eliott did with Polaris, the same way that Even did with The Boy Who Couldn't Hold His Breath Underwater, the same way that David did with his Only Boy Awake film, the same way that Nico did with his EP The Last Lovers On Earth, the same way that Joana did with her painting series Coming Back.

This is the masterpiece he created as a sheer explosion of his feelings, the closest thing he could make to love in art form. This is his soul, bared on a wall, for everyone to see how he feels about the love of his life.

(After a bad experience at a bar, Sander takes the other Evens out to see the mural. Fluff ensues.)

Words: 4213, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English

Series: Part 9 of if this love is pain (then darling let's love tonight)

Fandoms: SKAM (Spain), Druck | SKAM (Germany), WTFock | Skam (Belgium), SKAM (Italy), SKAM (France), SKAM (Norway)

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: F/F, M/M

Characters: Joana Bianchi Acosta, David Schreibner, Sander Driesen, Even Bech Næsheim, Niccolò Fares, Eliott Demaury, Matteo Florenzi, Cristina "Cris" Soto Peña

Relationships: Joana & David & Even & Sander & Eliott & Nico, Cristina "Cris" Soto Peña/Joana Bianchi Acosta, Matteo Florenzi/David (Druck), Niccolò Fares/Martino Rametta, Sander Driesen/Robbe IJzermans, Even Bech Næsheim/Isak Valtersen, Eliott Demaury/Lucas Lallemant, Joana Bianchi Acosta & David Schreibner

Additional Tags: Harassment, Transphobia, don't worry both get shut down pretty quick, all the Evens hang out at a club, POV Joana, Friendship, hi the evens are all rather protective of each other, and they all deserve to be protected, the back half of the story is really soft, and all about how fucking beautiful each evak story really is, there's a whole discussion about art and shit, also it's not important but, I'M STILL NOT OVER THE RED STRING SCENE IN SKAMIT, so it might have gotten mentioned, round of applause for every Even's sheer love for their partners, dude just realized i've done at least 1 fic in this series for each pairing, and nearly all of them have been from the evens POV, Oops?, HI WTFOCK IS SCARING ME SO HERE'S A FIC TO COPE, Alright looks like Sander has an MI this series is officially canon divergent, hope y'all don't mind, after that last clip here's something to make you guys all feel better