Real question: does Holly ever realize it's not Fire's fault in the 3 are golden/tiger kits AU? For Swiftpaw's death? If anything it's really her dad's and Bluestar's more anyone's? And had Fire been leader Swift would have had his name? (Also I know you probably won't take the AU this far, but who will be the 3 that Skywatcher tell Firestar about? I'm assuming Bramble and Twany will be Leaf's kits now, so are they 2 then Dove...and Fire rounds it up like in cannon?)

Holly does really treasure her mentor-apprentice bond with Firestar and is overall very understanding of the situation in hindsight, yes! She's got more of that classic semi-parental dynamic I see the fandom projecting onto Firestar and Brambleclaw but which I don't personally really like for them. I think it really helps sell it when you split Brambleclaw's arc in half like I did between Hollyleaf, journey cat and future deputy, and Lionblaze, the cat who ran away but came back and conspires with Hawkfrost to rid himself of one of the cats he personally hates most.

I do think Fire would be fairer on Swift, yes. Particularly at a time when he needed all hands on deck I don't see him delaying neither Bright nor Swift, but so that he could have them at his disposal as well as to not burden their mentors with them.

This is definitely post-canon to the AU because the very last thing I want to actually write out for it is the fox trap scene, but I did think about the prophecy of the three and Leafpool's secret prophecy children. To bring it full circle, Tawny and Bramble are indeed Leafpool's. And to bring it even more full circle since Holly and Jay are already mentoring one of their parents each, Squirrelflight and Leafpool respectively, Lionblaze gets to have Bramblepaw.

Dove is indeed the third, and a fourth is not really needed but I suppose it can be Firestar. Whatever.

Anyway, by the end of OotS Tawny and Dove both fuck off to ShadowClan together. Peace and love. <3

i BEG for your take on firetiger's dynamic LMGFFDSIJRK esp after u said how funny it'd be? maybe even some scribbles

i can see it being a situation where fireheart is either aged up further into the timeline, or tigerclaw switches places with either dustpelt or sandstorm? (brokenstar could just be used as the main main villian, maybe even scourge)

leaf and squilf being firetiger kits too, omfg, (and in this AU we could say Squilf hooks up with Crow, since bramble and hawk would be squilf's half brothers)

like. lil sister squirrelpaw annoying the shit out of her older siblings tawny and bramble? PLEASE LMFAO

i got a similar ask with big brother bramble! if firetiger happened at the same time as goldentiger i wonder how miss goldenflower would react,,, she'd definitely be a mother figure to squirrel and leaf i think

like I said the only dynamic I can see firetiger as is just fireheart being "I can fix him <3" and in that case, tigerclaw would still be a dick to say the least. A villain but without the murder and attempted murder, just the antagonist figure. them having squirrel and leaf is interesting but hard to imagine what their relationship with tigerclaw would be like,,,leafpool would probably be intimidated by her old man(tigerclaw) and squirrelflight is a wildcard

Chapters: 1/1 Fandom: Warriors - Erin Hunter Rating: General Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Hollyleaf & Jayfeather & Lionblaze (Warriors), Firestar & Hollyleaf & Jayfeather & Lionblaze (Warriors), Firestar & Hollyleaf (Warriors), Firestar & Jayfeather (Warriors), Firestar & Lionblaze (Warriors), Tigerclaw & Hollyleaf & Jayfeather & Lionblaze (Warriors), Jayfeather & Leafpool (Warriors), Jayfeather & Snowkit (Warriors) Characters: Hollyleaf (Warriors), Jayfeather (Warriors), Lionblaze (Warriors), Firestar (Warriors), Tigerclaw (Warriors), Goldenflower (Warriors), Darkstripe (Warriors), Leafpool (Warriors), Snowkit (Warriors) Additional Tags: Alternate Universe, Role Reversal, hjl are goldentiger kits Series: Part 1 of omnis vir tigris Summary:

Will they ever be anything more than Tigerstar's kits?

—

Fireheart’s eyes scanned all five of them as they suckled. It was obvious from their pelts that the brown tabby and her golden tabby brother were Tigerclaw and Goldenflower’s. Their brother, a gray tabby closer in size to Featherkit and Stormkit than to his own littermates, could very easily be mistaken for one of Silvestream’s kits, however.

—

Fireheart froze in place when he looked up, straight into Tigerclaw’s amber gaze. His heart was racing in his chest and he couldn’t help but blink as his mouth went agape. Soon, out of the corner of his eye, he saw a flash of the familiar brown tabby pelt. And in another moment, he saw a glimpse of a golden tabby pelt, which prompted him to look even further up.

—

A tabby can’t change her stripes, and she’s inherited her father’s.

—

What if Tigerstar and Goldenflower had had three kits?

Happy birthday to me! Go read my insane super specific AU fics.

Fun fact about omnis vir tigris: the Jayfeather and Lionblaze portrayed in that series would absolutely hold a "Firestar is dead" party. Even if my plans for the conclusion have them both come to terms with their childhood trauma re: being judged for being Tigerspawn and coming to be on if not amicable at least politely distant terms with him, they kind of still hate the guy deep inside and are glad to not have to see his stupid face ever again.

I'll give advance warning in case I decide to go through with it so y'all can download the current version (though that may be unnecessary as I can just upload a new version and leave the old one up), but I'm seriously considering reworking either in part or in whole esse est percipi.

What I'm deliberating the most about is Lionblaze going back on defecting to ShadowClan as a plot point and the setup for Jayfeather suffering survivors' guilt about the Snowkit incident.

In the case of the second it's mostly because I no longer think I can have that go anywhere. It'd be narrative baggage that ultimately went nowhere.

In the case of the first, there are good arguments both for keeping it as is or altering it. On the one hand there is not a Tawnypelt equivalent due to it and that's a shame. And there are interesting things I could do with Holly and Lion in the journey and with Jay being left behind without his siblings in ThunderClan as Firestar's Tigerkin paranoia sparks back up. On the other hand, he is meant to absorbe about half of Brambleclaw's TPB arc in mingling with Hawkfrost and that doesn't hit as hard if he is ShadowClan and not ThunderClan. Not to mention how it'd be useful to have both brothers stay back in the forest and parallel their journeys in initially becoming close to Hawk and Moth.

If anyone's got thoughts feel free to share, this is one of those things I really want to talk over with someone, specially if they got developed Tigerspawn thoughts.

So, the main objective of giving in and finally properly reading TNP is to have a better grasp of the characters and plot in preparation for the next omnis vir tigris installment and it's all very... The next installment focuses on the Jayfeather and Leafpaw mentor-apprentice relationship as well as the Jayfeather and Mothwing friendship and I'm finding I have threads and moments to pull at but nothing quite as clear cut as what I did with esse est percipi. For that one I strung together a lot of Bramblepaw centric scenes and replaced him with Jay, Holly, and/or Lion as appropriate to build up the starting point of their character arcs. It's a writing decision I ultimately kind of regret, esse est percipi is certainly one of the weakest fics in my bibliography IMO, even if I do adore the world I set up with it and the seeds I planted for the entire arc of omnis vir tigris. But either way, all this to say, the cogs are turning and if anyone is up for bouncing ideas and helping me figure out the plot here, really would appreciate.

Okay, this might be a bit dark, but I had a dream about the 3 being golden/tiger kits, and instead of Fireheart pushing Jay into the medicine den because he didn't know what else to do with him, BLUESTAR Like...threatened to get rid of Jay, because of what happened to Snowkit and for some reason also equating the Shadow and Wind assault on Thunderclan because of Broken's blindness, not what he did. Fireheart actually panicked and ended up begging Cinderpelt to take Jay, because Bluestar wouldn't let anyone mentor him. Eventually the 3 found out that it wasn't Fire himself that put Jay in the medicine den, but Bluestar outright trying to exile him that did it, and Fire was just trying to protect him. It was wild.

Shit, that is dark. The idea that Bluestar's spiral would bring her to equate Jay and Broken and also blaming him for the hawk thing. Specially given some of what I want to do with him involves having survivor's guilt over that incident. Also it's kind of a reversal of what I was going for: Jay being put in the medicine den because Firestar underestimated his capabilities and thought he was the harmless sibling, hence the only one fit for the medicine den. Really Fire was quite lucky Tigerstar also wanted to shove him into the medicine den, he could've made a pretty motivated enemy. But regardless, thanks for sharing your dream! Love hearing from y'all's dreams dark as they may be.

Opinion poll time! Suppose Tawnypelt is unavailable to go on the Sundrown Place quest, who is your preferred alternative and why?

Yo..imagine if Lion does help Hawk kill Fire in the 3 are golden/tiger kits au and it gets out, ending with every clan hating Tigerstar kin. It gets so bad all five are driven from the clans, before Holly can get her lives. I don't think Holly, Jay or Moth would look at Lion or Hawk the same.

Oooh, yeah. I can see Holly, Jay, and Moth going at it alone as rogues in that scenario. It'd pain Lion immensely since a primary motivation in the AU would be Lion wanting Holly to be leader over Firestar. So his murder ultimately achieved the complete opposite of what was intended. Lion and Hawk would probably have a strained relationship over it if they succeeded ultimately. Hawk might even blame Lion. But they'd have to stick together if they're going to survive out there. All in all, that'd be a really cruel way for me to end omnis vir tigris if I was going to go there.

Not to toot my own horn too much, but reading TNP has only solidified my confidence in how much of a good idea omnis vir tigris/the GoldenTiger 3 AU is. The arcs of the four Tigerspawn is easily the part I'm caring the most about but from what I'm reading and what I know from deliberately spoiling myself, I know just how botched it all came out in the end. Omnis, more than just a way to marry my love for Jay, Holly, and Lion with my interest on the Tigerspawn conceptually, is I feel going to turn out to be my shot at trying to do better by this story.

In the 3 are Tigerstar kids, I can (eventually) see Jay and Lion realize/recognize the PTSD Firestar had. Yeah, he was still an ass, but they do understand why he was like that to a certain degree. Especially after the dark forest battle, and everything.

Also:

Lionblaze: *screaming at Tigerstar.* "WHY CAN'T YOU JUST STAY DEAD?!?"

Yeah, yeah! I don't see how in some way they don't recognize it but they still don't like the guy very much. I don't think I'll write that far into the future, my focus is squarely pre-Po3, but yeah. I can see that.

Pesky ghost father, insisting on coming back like a cockroach.

Cruel Bluestar dream nonny here. Like, I've been thinking about this, and during the apprentice ceremony Fire gives Holly to Sandstorm, and Lion got the same mentor from your fic. And he sneaks Jay out and secretly trains him during the night. And he and Bluestar got into a HUGE fight about Swiftpaw, Brightpaw, and Cloudpaw and the whole clan hears Fireheart say that Cloudpaw won't be made a warrior unless Swiftpaw and Brightpaw are too. Cloudpaw agrees too, saying Swift and Bright are his friends. So the dog attack doesn't happen to Swift, and Bright, as Cloud is there to mediate. It's Brindleface and Speckletail who are attacked, and Brindleface is the one who survives. Goldenflower has to take over for Ashkit and Fernkit. Longtail is the one who Tigerstar kills, leaving Swiftpaw devastated that his dad did that. How would your 3 deal with it, btw? Just the whole premise.

OOOOH! That's fun! The three get to keep their big brother and they get two more little siblings in Fern and Ash.

Hmmmm. Well, Jay would be elated Fireheart is taking the time to train him against the leader's wishes. He'd be annoyed he couldn't be formally renamed Jaypaw (how secret are they keeping it? are Lion and Holly under the impression their brother got held back or are they in on it? much to consider), but I see him being super into keeping the secret if he gets to train. Tigerstar would probably be outraged to know his son is being kept as a perma-kit. Say what you will about Tiger, but he would not be willing to let a perfectly usable apprentice go to waste even if he may not believe they're warrior material.

I don't see Ashkit and Fernkit being trusted with the secret, can't trust the littlest with something that big in case they blabber. So, Fern, Ash and Jay bonding? That sounds so cute, three gray ones all together. Even if Jay would hate being babied even if it's to keep the cover lmao.

I can see Swift's anger being something that bleeds over to his siblings. If things progress like this with a more reasonable Firestar I don't see Lion defecting.

Hollypaw and Sandstorm strike me as a good match-up chemistry-wise. Otherwise no notes.

Pssssst, anyone got any questions about the GoldenTiger 3 AU? I'm currently drowning in my own thoughts but I can't write just yet as I'm doing my preparatory TNP readthrough.

I went thru your foxPO3 tag, and noticed you'd actually written a chapter of it on ao3, but the fic is now private. Are you planning on making it available to read again in the future?

Potentially! I wanted to rework it first and in order to do that I need to actually sit down and read The New Prophecy sometime because plot-wise it's a Leafpool-centered prequel.

I don't know how much the new folks (and there are plenty, did y'all migrate from Twitter?) know of my fandom backstory but the long and short of it is: first read DotC years ago and only like last year got to read any of the other arcs. I deliberately spoiled myself on the plot of the whole series just so I could skip around to my heart's content. So, in my head TNP is filed as the backstory to Po3-OotS not a fully independent arc in its own right.

That kind becomes a problem when I want to write fics that touch upon those events such as my second installment of GoldenTiger 3 AU or the prequel I was writing for Fox Po3. Just today I was thinking of how I want to get to work on docendo discunt, the second installment of omnis vir tigris (the series title for my GoldenTiger 3 AU) and that would definitely require me to read up on TNP because I need to build up the Jayfeather & Mothwing sibling relationship and Jayfeather & Leafpaw mentor-apprentice relationship while the forest is falling apart.

If you want to ask me about the details of Fox Po3 or what my plans are for said prequel, feel free to ask! You can also browse my tag for my live read of the book that inspired the Fox Po3 AU, #Jace reads TFoFd. I'm lifting a lot of my worldbuilding from there and adapting it to my liking.

Last time I talked about omnis vir tigris (aka the GoldenTiger 3 AU), @addershine got me thinking about the possibility of an even more complete role swap between Leafpool and Jayfeather where he not only is her mentor but full on her secret father. The trouble is, who could even be her mother? I love me the Jay and Moth friendship, but even in the best circumstances I can’t see them being interested in each other that way.

(Even if Leafpaw may think otherwise because I adore the idea of her being simultaneously the world’s biggest MothJay shipper and supremely jealous of her mentor getting so close with the pretty girl she’s got a crush on. I even have an idea for a little exchange between them once it’s revealed Moth is Tigerstar’s daughter where she goes “Damn, sorry you found out your girlfriend is secretly your sister” and he goes “Leafpaw, no, wtf, you’ve completely misread the relationship”.)

Anyway. If anyone’s got any ideas, please do tell me. Also, feel free to steal this idea. This is one of the things where I’m not sure I’d wanna write it myself but I definitely wanna read it.