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flowerflamestars · 2 years

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What do you think of Rhysand’s mother? I have a few questions about her after reading this post (https://flowerflamestars.tumblr.com/post/641487845398364160/are-we-ever-gonna-talk-about-how-rhysand-can) about Rhysand’s childhood.

1. Do you think Rhysand’s was as soft and gentle as Rhysand portrays her? I never got that vibe because when he describes her, he said that she gave her ring to the Weaver for safekeeping and brought Rhysand to the camps for training? I think it would take a very cunning and intelligent person to bring their child to the camps for more than one type of training (physically and not just magically). I truly do not think that she was as helpless as Rhysand portrays her to be. What do you think?

2. Why do you think she brought Rhysand to the camps? There are a few reasons mentioned within the books, they are: she wanted him to know his culture, use his physical strength and not his magical strength, and that she saw his father as cruel and wanted Rhysand to be separate from him. The issue I have with this is that it actually does not make any sense.

Rhysand’s mother was raised in a family oriented society, Azriel said as much when he was teaching Feyre how to fly. So for her to “break up” their family and go against the values she was raised with by sending Rhysand to the camps, I think she did it because she hated his father. I do not truly think it had anything to do with Rhysand having control over his physical strength and not just his magical prowess. She was removed from her people very abruptly, forced to live in a land that she probably knew nothing about, and did not see her family until she came back to the Illyrian camps. It literally said she was brought to Velaris and became his bride the same night. It was probably very jarring for her and I think that is why she struggled to like his father. And on top of that, his father was known to be mean. I do not think she brought Rhysand to the camps because she wanted him to be physically strong, I think she thought him because training male children is all she knows, (it’s what she grew up with in the camps) and she wanted to get away from Rhysand’s father that she saw as evil.

I do not hate her but I think the way she is described in the series by Rhysand is a bit contradictory. I don’t think there was a lot of foreword planning as to why she brought him to the camp, she just did not like his father and made Rhysand train because it is all she saw the women around her doing while she was growing up.

3. Why specifically do you think Rhysand hates the Illyrians? I firmly believe that he hates them because of their way of life. He seems to enjoy the nicer things in life, he doesn’t live in the camps and likes having nice expensive things. I loved how in your post you highlighted how his first couple years of life was in absolute privilege and pleasure. He had no worries and then suddenly he was dumped in a freezing cold place where people barely have any belonging except for the stuff they need to survive. It was probably very jarring and confusing for him and he never got over it.

I am so happy that I came across someone who speculates about Rhysand mother. A figure we hardly talk about or was mentioned in the books.

Hi, thank you!

Caveat, obviously, this is all my own personal speculation, and I think Rhysand's mother (and his sister, for that matter) aren't really characters in canon, so much as they are plot beats. They're there initially to explain the Tamlin/Rhysand hostility (which Rhys just forgave? I guess?) and then if we're really stretching things as a sort of combo guilt complex/justification for being over-protective of Feyre.

The soft and gentle vibe...very much rubs me the wrong way. We don't have a good handle on when, exactly Rhysand's mother died- after the first war with Hybern, since we know Rhysands father was High Lord during that conflict- but not so long after that Rhysand wasn't young. And that shows. His mother is kind, beautiful phantom.

He can tell Feyre her actions- arguably ruthless and iconoclastic (more on that later)- but he then completely flattens her character into one note: his mother. his beautiful, good, tragic mother.

Which is not to say ruthless woman aren't good mothers- it's that Rhysand carries so much guilt about her death that he cannot, even as an adult, even five hundred years later, see her as a whole, complete person.

I think she probably was a good mother- but not in ways Rhysand bothers to reflect on.

Which brings me to the Illyrian camps.

I've never seen it addressed, but I cannot imagine Rhysand's mother returning to that place- she has a house! she stays there and takes care of Rhys and his friends!- was not a personal sacrifice.

There are two Illyrian women, in total, in all of the books, who can fly. Who are not ritually maimed. Who have, besides the freedom of the sky, the apparent freedom to go wherever they want: Rhysand's mother, and Rhysand's sister.

Their whole existence spits in the face of tradition.

She stays in a hostile environment so her son knowns he isn't alone. And maybe this is where his dislike of Illyrians started- they probably fucking despised his mother.

(I can't speculate about family because...it doesn't seem like there is any? I also don’t think a woman who tried starving herself and drugging herself to avoid the rituals her people practiced around puberty really cared about falling in with tradition)

But I do really think he takes all the wrong lessons from it. (as expanded on in the original post) I don't even think it's about superior training- the Illyrian Legions are a threat, ultimately because their entire existence has been reduced down to war- but the other faeries we meet? The other High Lords, even? Are all incredibly violent. Rhysand was always going to learn to fight, not to mention the fact that he can, as is apparently a family skill, melt people with his brain.

But I digress- I think the whole point isn't threat, necessarily, it's that Rhysand's mother is preparing for his adulthood. She's showing him where she came from, with the knowledge he, and he alone, can change it some day.

Ditto for the ring! If her son was going to grow to break traditions, then whoever his partner was, they were going to be in danger too. It's a pretty straightforward test of strength. There's a future Rhysand's mom wants to happen, and she's shoring it up in fascinatingly ruthless ways.

Which means it's time to talk about Daddy Rhysand.

In VERY SIMILAR my parents are not people they're how I traumatically felt about them when they died when I had the maturity of a teen and have NEVER INTERROGATED ANY EMOTION EVER- Rhysand's father is hilariously one-note.

We know he separated Rhysand from his friends during the war- which I know we're supposed to see as mean and unfair but...kind of makes sense? So much as anything does in an obviously flawed, shitty system but like, they belonged to different parts of a military defense???

Anyway.

We know Rhysand dismissed his government- no clues on what that structure was- and replaced them with his friends.

And we know, that despite whatever flaws Rhysand prescribes, he could have loved Rhysand's mother very much.

I have to disagree with the whole hiding in the camps/hiding the ring thing for the very simple reason that Rhysand's father could have stopped her, at literally any time. He lets her take his heir to this incredibly dangerous place, which shows, at minimum, trust in her judgement.

He doesn't do anything, as far as we know, when she gives away her wedding ring for Plotting Antics.

Rhysand remembers them as Wild & Kind vs Rigid & Mean- but like, isn't that exactly how an angry teen who doesn't have the skills/perspective/emotional maturity would see it?

Not to lean hard on the grievously sexist world-building, but High Lords hold absolute power in their Courts.

Rhysand's mother was, in contrast, not just lacking in power because she was a young woman, but was also a member of tightly controlled, horrifically abused minority.

Saving her initially from the wing-clipping can probably be written off- ugh ugh ugh on 'protective instincts'- but after that? He takes her home. He doesn't hide her or seem remotely ashamed of her, from what we know. She was Lady of Night. She lived in palace he built her, specifically designed to be flown to, where no one could winnow, for her safety and comfort.

He didn't stop her from teaching their children things from a culture faeries of his class wildly despise. Moreover, it sounds like she just did whatever the hell she wanted, traveling around, making deals with the Weaver, ect.

None of that means their relationship couldn't have problems or difficulties, but what we're shown is ultimately more complex. It could have been love! She could have been terribly lonely! He could have tried and failed to bridge the gap! We just don't know, but he never caged her or even, it seems, contained her.

I can't, for example, imagine Rhysand allowing Feyre to run away to Illyria with their kid.

Which- okay, I can't talk about Rhysand's mother without talking about the dress thing.

The ring thing? Ruthless. Crazy. An interesting snap-shot into what Rhysand's mother was like.

THE DRESS THING??? God. Wearing an inherited piece of jewelry, like say, an heirloom wedding ring guarded by a primordial horror, can be cool.

Wearing clothes your mother-in-law made, who happened to be a very talented seamstress? Yeah, works of art.

WEARING CLOTHES YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW MADE YOU, THAT YOUR SPOUSE PICKS OUT FOR YOU, PRE-CHOSEN FOR EVERY IMPORTANT OCCASION WHILE YOU'RE WEARING HER RING, INHERITING HER TITLE AND LIVING IN HER HOUSE? Fucking weird

This is, of course, not the most egregious or creepy boundary crossing thing that happens, by far, but thinking about it AT ALL makes me feel like my brain is liquifying.

Rhysand's daddy issues are so loud they envelope everything- and, dare I say, define his entire adult character almost as badly as Feyre's do- but the behind the scenes mommy issues?

Feyre with ILLYRIAN WINGS! AS A SEX THING! Feyre's insanely inadvisable pregnancy!

Rhysand has rolled all his guilt into one unhealthy thing and it's Feyre, his mom sister pet Mate, he'll do anything to protect.

He's like one book from hauling out her old dresses from storage and having a family portrait made of himself (a better version of his father, A DREAMER), Mama Feyre, and perfect little treasure better future perfect accessory NightNight staged the same way as the royal portraiture that used to be in his father's office or something. WE ARE RIGHT ON AN ALARMING LINE

In sum: I think Rhysand's mother is fascinating, and we're never going to know more. I don't find Rhysand's hatred of Illyrians justifiable- it's cultural, but it's also systemic and he is, literally, the head of the broken system causing most, if not all, of that cascade. He could have been a great hope for them, as a nation.

I can go either way on Rhysand's parents having a good or bad relationship- there's no definitive answer, but I do think her agency is present enough to...wonder about how he speaks about it.

#no one @ me about the mommy issues #yall it is there it is not subtle I have been side eyeing it for YEARS #the whole here's a dress for you thing #IS a classic #but it gets weird after a while okay?#and god.#will someone every tell me why all these women need to wear Illyrian-style leather pants to EXERCISE IN?#they're for flying! for warmth!#for oggling apparently #I digress I secretly love Rhysand's mom who was probably much cooler than he is #Love the idea that he grew up consciously trying not to be his dad and ended up...worse than his dad #I hope Mama Rhysand and the Weaver were buds #I hope she went to the Hewn City wearing head to to toe diamonds and telling racists to fuck off #I hope her hot scary husband didn't even know how to keep up with her #and settled for like: being the the boring dad who had an important job and lavishly took care of everyone #Rhysand on his dad: HE WAS A BASTARD #actually rhysands dad: an upper class weirdo by-product of the system who didn't know how to hug #Rhysand on his mom: SO KIND SO SOFT SO-#rhysand's mom: go freeze half to death and get the shit beat out of you baby it's life lesson time

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