#but as someone who’s been in the goth subculture since 2013 | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

xxlittle-miss-horrorxx · 10 months

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So a very minor nitpick on Helluva Boss….

I know I said I should only ramble with a sideblog for Helluva boss and Hazbin hotel to put a lot of u criticisms in (it’s not gonna be like an anti blog or anything, the show is still very much a guilty pleasure for me) but I just feel like getting this out of my system

I recalled seeing a critical post about Helluva boss’s lack of music diversity and how we sadly don’t see much other music genres than generic pop songs and musical numbers… They mentioned how they wish they saw more metal music and all of that and it reminded me why I have a massive issue with the show’s misusage of the word goth.

I don’t think anyone outside of the goth subculture or most people (even critical blogs) know this, but goth isn’t really a fashion aesthetic. Just like with metal, punk, and grunge, it’s a music based subculture that originated from the punk movement during the late 70s and on forward gave birth to goth as we all know.

That being said, it’s why I have a massive issue with the show labeling Loona and Octavia being goth, when they literally don’t even show signs of listening to goth music (like the Bauhaus, The Cure..) and mostly just get emo or pop songs.

Loona to me just comes off more like an emo girl than a goth, not even a mallgoth (since mallgoths are more like metalheads) since she’s shown to like bands like My Chemical Romance and even the song when searching for Octavia gave odd 2000s emo vibe. Why couldn’t y’all just went with calling her emo instead of goth 🙃🙃🙃

Now Octavia to me, could come off as a baby bat exploring the goth subculture but she always plays pop music for her and idk… I get it, most baby bats won’t be familiar with goth music right away but idk it be nice to hear those themes.

That being said, Helluva Boss isn’t the only cartoon guilty of this. Majority of cartoons in general were always made by normie people and they don’t know much about the goth subculture and only relied on stereotypes normal people have about goths.

However, there are adult cartoons that actually did research better when writing goth characters and giving them more accurate music that fits them.

Take the South Park goth kids for an example

In their room, you notice a poster that’s called Skippy Puppy and the Blauhaus, which are spoof bands of real bands called Skinny Puppy and The Bauhaus which are two bands that are very much liked by goths (bauhaus being the first goth band that gave birth to goth, and skinny puppy is more industrial than goth, we consider that goth adjacent since back in the 90s, goth and industries music were very much mashed together in goth clubs )

Even by character designs, Michael and Henrietta were modeled after Robert Smith and Siouxsie Sioux, who were very much the big time iconic goth musicians.

Matt and Trey themselves are huge fans of the Cure and even had a cameo of Robert smith and even hung out with goths before, so you can see why they got a depiction of them to notch. And the whole thing with them and the vamp kids was a real thing that happened with the 90s with goths and mall goths, i suggestion checking out Angela Benedict’s video for that.

Another example is Venture Bros since Triana believe it or not, is very much an accurate depiction of a goth. And they even referenced bands like the Bauhaus, Alien, Nik Fiend, and Deathrock music as some of Triana’s interests.

But the big kicker is Triana herself, is voiced by Lisa friggin Hammer!

For anyone who doesn’t know, Lisa hammer was an iconic goth musician during the 90s and was in two ethereal wave bands known as Mors Siphlitica and Requiem in White. The fact they had her voice their goth character shows me they did their research.

Even Seth McFarlene got this right (yes you heard me) with American Dad with Debbie and her goth peers, not only making her a very down to earth person but they made their main theme “Love will Tear us Apart” from Joy Division

For those that may not know, Joy Division is one of the Big 5 of goth bands along with the the Bauhaus, the Cure, Sioxusie and the Banshees, and Sisters of Mercy. So I was surprised that Seth got this right, since he’s known to stereo things in his shows.

And of course we also have Daria, with having two goth characters and no I don’t mean Daria and Jane. (Having a cynical personality doesn’t make you a goth) But rather do I mean Andrea and Trent

She was so obviously modeled after Robert Smith and Siouxsie Sioux since those two were very iconic with goth fashion back on the day, we sadly don’t see much of her but you can tell they took inspiration.

And you may be thinking, but why Trent? He doesn’t even dress goth and just seems like he likes any music. While he’s that may be true, but I Remeber having this conversation with other goths in Instagram where we had a huge disccuin of goth characters in fiction. And one of my peers mentioned Trent also counts because he’s shown to have an interest in goth music if you look at his bedroom. So I thought I check out and what do you know

There’s a poster of Bauhaus and Sisters of Mercy inside his bedroom :) and honestly guys, there are actual goths like this I knew in real life. Where they don’t dress the part but are still a huge fanatic of the music. Like you don’t need to dress all dark to be goth, that’s optional, you just really need to enjoy goth music to be goth.

And of course we have Serena from Downtown who actually was not only based off of a goth in real life, but she’s shown interests in goth bands like Dead Can Dance and a satire of Sisters of Mercy as shown here.

The Brothers of Creation is basically a parody of sisters of Mercy. But not only that, she even brought up on one episode how she got tired of goths being badly judged and stereotyped by others (even being lumped by Masonites, which we all know how controversial Marilyn Manson was back then and how his fanbase ignited a horrible stereotype about goths. He was never a goth artist, but normies had the assumption that all goths are like him and his fanbase based on how they just dress similar to goths) and her annoyance with neckbeards that thirst over goth women just makes her relatable to me. Since sadly, there are many men that creep on goth women like us and we get tired of it.

Now honestly, it really should not be that hard to add some goth music to give for Loona and Octavia. They do that modern day humor so much with Instagram and tik tok, they literally could had use a parody of Dusty from Vision Video (who’s a very popular goth tik toker and even has his own bad that’s very similar to the cure) and given we have knowledge now, this amount of research to write goth characters SHOULD NOT BE THAT HARD.

But you know, all would be forgiven if they don’t have hints of liking goth music if they just made Loona a lot more likable. My main pet peeve with her is that she comes off as a negative stereotype of goths that a lot of us don’t like. It just gives normies a really bad idea of us that we are all shitty people.

So anyways rant over, Vivziepop REALLY needs to try and branch out different music genres or research alternative subcultures better before making goth characters.

#helluva boss critical #vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #hazbin hotel critical #yes I’m aware this has been an issue for a lot of cartoons and not just this show #but as someone who’s been in the goth subculture since 2013 #this is super frustrating #we have information now to know more about goth #just tired of people depicting goths so bad #like damn get our music tastes right at least #or don’t potray as the way normies see us as negative stereotypes

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booptunes · 2 years

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15 Years Since Sophie Passed.

Since it's 15 years since the death of Sophie Lancaster, here's the feature I wrote for university on her killer being released from his life sentence. TW: Hate Crime/Murder.

Sophie Lancaster and Robert Maltby were walking back from a friend’s house in Bacup, Lancashire when Ryan Herbert and a group of his friends decided to call an attack on the two. Why? Because they were goths.

Maltby suffered serious wounds after being kicked in the head. The attack then turned to Sophie Lancaster as she held her boyfriend while he bled. Her attack resulted in death.

Earlier this year, the parole board made the decision to release 30-year-old Ryan Herbert from his life-sentence, just fifteen years after the sentence.

Paramedics at the time described the injuries as being so bad, they ‘could not tell which sex either were’, and Sophie allegedly had a ‘clear footpath’ on her face. Both were beaten until they were no longer conscious.

Maltby woke up a week after the attack. Sophie died from her wounds after two weeks.

Lancaster and Maltby’s friends had described them as ‘law-abiding’ when describing their characters, proving that they would not have done anything to aggravate their attackers.

A witness recalled hearing someone call “Let’s bang him” before the attack took place. Herbert was just 16 years at the time. One of his accomplices, Brendan Harris, was just 15 years old.

The court hearing took place on 28th April 2008 at Preston Crown Court. Harris was given a minimum of 18 years for his part in the murder while Herbert was sentenced to life in prison.

In 2009, Sophie’s mother, Sylvia Lancaster, launched The Sophie Lancaster Foundation. The charity sets out to educate and raise awareness in a bid for a change to be made to laws surrounding hate crimes. She would move around schools and events, telling Sophie’s story and educating generations young and old, in hopes to create tolerance and change.

In 2013, police began to treat the attacks on subcultures such as goths as a hate crime and respond the way they would with crime against race or sexuality.

In 2014, Sylvia was awarded an OBE for her work against hate crimes.

Ryan Herbert had been described as having an ‘anti-social lifestyle’ at the time of the attack. His group of friends were negatively influencing him.

Throughout his prison sentence, professionals say that he had shown full engagement with his resettlement activities and had a positive working relationship with the staff involved with his case. The professionals have no concerns about his release, which resulted in the decision to release him.

Sylvia Lancaster was less pleased to hear the news of his release. She wasn’t the only one.

I interviewed Kia Blackwood, a 22-year-old goth from Doncaster,

“It was a vicious attack that didn't need to happen,” said Kia. “It makes me feel so angry that the killer is going to be released as he gets to walk free but she doesn't. I don't feel as if he's served enough time as he brutally attacked someone because of the way they look, he definitely should have got life. With the killer being released more and more people are gonna be afraid to walk the streets just because of how they look.”

I asked Kia if she felt safe going out dressed as her gothic self.

“Sometimes I feel unsafe sometimes going out fully dressed as there's always people giving you dirty looks or talking to their friends about you, who's to say they won't attack you like Sophie's killer did? I have never once been the victim of violence for dressing the way I do but other people have and it's disgusting behaviour.”

The release of Ryan Herbert has ignited anger within the goth community. As Sylvia Lancaster says in a statement on the foundation’s website,

“Once again, we have a justice system that fails to deliver justice... The judge at the murder trial described the attack on Sophie as ‘feral’, with the attackers’ behaviour ‘savage and merciless’... However, they have progressed, the minimum justice for the family is them serving the sentence they were given. Her attackers may not have been given a life sentence, but I have.”

Sylvia Lancaster passed away shortly after, on 12th May 2022, after suffering from ill-health for the last couple of years. Her legacy continues with The Sophie Lancaster Foundation as they continue to spread Sophie's story.

#Sophie Lancaster #The Sophie Lancaster Foundation #journalism #hate crime #hate crime cw #RIP Sylvia Lancaster #RIP Sophie Lancaster

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