wrt your answer regarding IceMav’s overall perception of women, and how they were both unfortunately, products of their times/military backgrounds: this is a question I asked myself all the time, while reading WWGATTAI — CAN they really only have a truly equal relationship with another man? Back in chapter 1, when Ice was so deep in denial about himself and his sexuality, that he wouldn’t know what (or who) he wanted, even if it rode up-to him on a freight train, and knocked him flat out on his ass, his idea of what he thinks makes sense for him is: a simple woman who won’t ask too many questions, who will wait up for him until his ship comes home, who will purse her lips when he tells her of the violence he’s witnessed but won’t pry, who will wash and dry his uniform for him and kiss him at the sound of Reveille in the morning. ‘Cause, in his own words: Complicated women lead to complicated problems, long arguments, late nights, philosophy discussions, plans for the future.

Now, maybe it’s telling, maybe it’s not, but the closest Ice gets to semi-serious relationship with a woman, is with a PhD candidate: who doesn’t seem to fit into his very-juvenile ideal of a ‘simple’ woman, and the person he ends up choosing over her is Mav: who is a man ofc, but at the same time, is ‘simple’ in the sense that he doesn’t ask too many (or any) questions, does wait up for Ice till his ship comes home (even if Ice doesn’t explicitly want him to), probably has little interest in late-night philosophy discussions, and absolutely-zero expectations for their future. This combined with the fact that Ice confides in Jake, telling him that Mav’s the only person he’s ever been in love with, made me wonder whether Mav’s ‘simplicity’ (LOL), was a part of the reason why Ice loved him, and whether there was a sliver of a chance that maybe, Ice did know himself just a little bit, back when he was in his mid-twenties? In Debriefing, Mav thinks to himself, that he’s slept with a lotta guys, and he’s slept with a lotta girls, and maybe, there was a 50-50 chance who he ended up with. But maybe, for Ice, it was always meant to be Mav—regardless of how many others he slept with. I mean, Mav’s clearly not washing and drying any uniforms for Ice, but he’s probably kissing him at the sound of Reveille in the morning?

lol i literally never thought of it like that but you’re so right!!! in my head it’s not exactly “ice is in love with maverick BECAUSE he doesn’t ask questions” it’s more like “maverick not asking questions ALLOWS ice to be in love with him.”

I really have spent an EXORBITANT amount of time thinking about possible moments in the story they could have talked about it—moments when they could’ve chosen not to “waste time,” depending on how you look at it, and I cannot see any foot in the door that isnt maverick literally dying & coming back from the dead. Like—the most likely moment would’ve been when they hugged each other ~halfway through debriefing when mavericks like ice always leaves—i think maverick (if he were feeling forgiving enough) could’ve whispered I love you, and it wouldn’t have gone TERRIBLY, but I literally cannot imagine ice’s response. “Ok.” Doesn’t know what to do with himself. “Uh. I, uh. Can’t, really, uh…” until mavericks like “don’t worry about it…” & who knows what happens after that.

I think the ONLY way i have come up with that actually works is—maverick nonchalantly asking anytime, “do you like me? Like, as a person. I know some people don’t like me. I don’t know. Am I a likable person? I know we’re stuck together but. Do you actually like me?” And ice going, “yeah, of course i like you! :) i didnt used to… u used to be a fuckin twerp… but…” blabbering on about how “You have no idea how respected you are… You walk into a room & everyone’s faces light up… ur so much FUN… ur the life of every party… it used to make me jealous but now it just makes me so proud to say yes i used to fly with maverick Mitchell, yes im friends with him, yes i know him… :)))” like, the truth! & then, kind of insecure, “i know some people don’t like ME…. too cold hearted etc… idk as my best friend how do you feel about ME…” & maverick goes “come on. You know how I feel about you.” and ice is like… “oh! you love me!” & “oh shit.” More complicated than that obviously but that’s literally the only way ive come up with (besides TGM doing the work for me and killing Maverick off so Ice realizes he can’t live without him) that doesn’t end with ice going “uh. uh. Well we can’t. I don’t know how to respond to that. Uh. We can’t be in a relationship because I’m not.” And maverick going “yes you are!” And ice saying “fuck you, navy first!” and leaving. (The possibility that would’ve happened if mav wanted to ask questions. my Ice has to figure it out for himself.)

idk if this is really answering ur ask. But—i love that reading wrt mavs “simplicity” and the quote from ch 1. i literally wasn’t thinking about it that way at all (like I wasn’t thinking period when i wrote it) but it makes me feel smarter than i am so thank you