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eirichele · 4 years

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a VERY in depth look at fire emblem: three houses and its grooming problem

OR: how this game managed to make an accurate portrayal of grooming and exactly how it made it palatable

(warning: really long. though to be fair, the length is mostly screenshots. you can also read this in google docs)

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SO i’ve been wanting to write something Formal and In Depth for a while, because this game’s reception has been a nightmare for me and other csa victims and quarantine hit, so i finally had time. i just really wanted to get all my thoughts in one place before i move on from 3h. i’m basically done talking about this after this one because... idk what else i could say that hasn’t been said here, really. fe has history with this, and the in-game excuses ring hollow when we know the fe devs disregard csa victims at every turn while pandering to male gamers who love sexualised teenage girls.

long, long analysis under the cut:

Some previous context: Fire Emblem games have a history of normalising harmful romances

It’s understandable for many to not know the history of the series since 3H was insanely successful and it brought a lot of new fans. Fire Emblem has always been a character driven game where making your units bond was encouraged both for gameplay and story reasons. Some end in special romantic epilogues, and some of those relationships were concerning to say the least: Sylvia, 14 years old, can marry every eligible man in Genealogy of the Holy War, Jill from Radiant Dawn, 18, can marry her father’s protegé who is 34. This is not a new phenomenon for the series, it just became more noticeable and malicious post-Awakening, because it became first person fanservice.

FE decided to rehaul the series sometime in 2011 by including dating sim elements, which made it explode in popularity. Avatars were introduced to represent the player in-game, allowing them to marry whoever they wanted. The first game to include a pseudo-dating sim was Awakening, released in 2012. The player can marry every named playable character, on top of the usual FE shipping mechanics . Donnel, Nowi and Ricken, all children, are part of your party. Nowi is a thousand year old dragon that looks like a child of 11-15. She loves playing, and throws tantrums, and overall acts very childishly, but the narrative insists that she’s really an adult feigning childishness.

In Fire Emblem lore, dragons are veeeery slow ageing people with the power to transform into dragons, which means they can be biologically still children even when they’re hundreds or thousands of years old. Tiki, another similar character, is considered a child in Shadow Dragon by her adult dragon family while explicitly being around Nowi’s age. Despite evidence to the contrary, Awakening treats Nowi like an adult who can marry. Fire Emblem had previously included many dragon child characters in the past, but none were romantic options for anyone, and they were considered a younger sibling of sorts. Nowi was a first in the series, and after her inclusion these romances became common with characters like Nyx in Fates and Flayn and Sothis in Three Houses. Worth noting is her design, which is incredibly sexualised. A (not so) fun fact is that the outfit designer of Awakening and Fates was none other than Three Houses’ future director, Toshiyuki Kusakihara:

Ricken and Donnel are just regular 13-15 year old boys. No magic. Other adult characters and your avatar just marry them, and it’s stated they will have children in the future. The next game, Fates, actually managed to outdo this somehow: Your pedophilic romance options are now five, and unlike Awakening’s avatar Robin, whose age was unknown and could potentially be portrayed in their mid-teens, Corrin canonically is in the 18-21 age range, making this unambiguous pedophilia. Fates is a very standout game when it comes to Fire Emblem’s worst parts: There’s no “children from the future” excuse for the avatar having children like in Awakening. The avatar impregnates all spouses (or gets pregnant) and has the child after an in-game time skip, which means you can canonically impregnate your approximately 15 year old sister in a Fire Emblem game. You really do not want to stan these devs.

pictured: definitely not 18, even if the english localization really tried to pull that.

Which is yet another thing in this game: Incest with adopted siblings is possible and even encouraged. Incest is constantly fetishized through the character of Camilla, who is an attractive and sexualized older sister obsessed with the main character. Another (not so) fun fact is that most characters will continue to call you ‘brother’ or ‘sister’ in the story even if you’re married because Fire Emblem rarely changes the story to fit with your marriage options. The most insidious thing about the incest and pedophilic couples in Fates is that they’re completely normalized. It’s not shown as abusive, and they look like normal couples that could even look cute out of context. They confess their love, tease each other, blush and have cutesy epilogues.

pictured: marrying your sibling and a literal child

All of this is to end with the conclusion that this is a constant pattern with Fire Emblem, especially the ones with marriage. Any potentially awful relationships portrayed are not outwardly abusive. You won’t catch Xander gaslighting Corrin, or anything. They’re a “cute” relationship that just happens to be incest. Their interactions are not outwardly unhealthy, and it’s tailor made for ‘’’harmless’’’ shipping, but in the end, it’s incest and pedophilia portrayed as a valid pairing that’s “healthy” by all means. It’s normalization of something that’s objectively horrifying to live through. As a CSA victim, Fates literally made me quit the franchise for all the years it was popular.

When Three Houses announced that it would take place in a school while you play a teacher, after seeing all of this play out all FE fans could feel was dread. When 3H announced even later that all romance would take place post-time skip everyone forgot about their reservations instantly— ignoring the fact that everyone being over 18 when marriage happens doesn’t absolve all potential problems with predatory writing. How you write a couple with an age gap is critical. Moving on with Actual Three Houses:

Byleth has a canon age unlike Corrin and Robin, but the game tries to hide it

Corrin and Robin were both avatars meant to be somewhat customized. Byleth cannot be customized. They have a set appearance and age. You can choose Byleth’s name, gender and birthday when you start up the game, but Byleth canonically cannot be born anywhere after September 20th 1159, their “canon” birthday, since their father states in his diary that they’re already alive. 3H starts in the year 1180, which makes Byleth 20 or already 21 depending on their chosen birthday.

All other Three Houses characters have their ages shown clearly in their unit menu, and all bios update accordingly when you learn new information, including yours. Byleth’s age is revealed in a cutscene, but despite this, the game tries to “hide” their age. This is all Byleth has in their bio even well into the endgame:

It’s presumably so the player can “headcanon” their age, as the player avatar, but they still have a canon age, because they’re not a customizable one. It’s a very odd design choice that makes no sense until you consider that the game is romantically pushing teenagers at you. Romanceable students range from 14 to 22 years old before the time skip, but the great majority are in the 15-18 range. Early on, when you introduce yourself to your students, they seem taken aback by how young you are and comment how you seem like you’re “their age.” This is your only dialogue option in response:

No sixteen year old has ever told a twenty/-one year old that they’re the same age, but this is anime high school dating sim logic. An addendum is that this game has incredibly shallow dialogue options to hide how linear it really is, and this is the first glaring instance. This comes up later on with the romance options—you have little to no options to reject a student’s advances. Boundaries as both a player and RPG protagonist are non-existent in this game.

pictured: “yes” and “sure why not” dialogue options to agreeing to meet with a student alone. linhardt just turned 17 last month

Byleth can flirt pre-time skip

Most of your units are students, thus all romance should in theory, stay in the war phase…. Which doesn’t happen at all. All the narrative framing of characters’ “closeness” and foreshadowing of romance are definitely a part of the school phase. The worst offender by far is an in-game event called the Goddess Tower, the school’s local romantic spot. It’s said in universe that a man and a woman who make a vow there on a specific night will stay together forever, and this is a prelude to the marriage scenes five years later, which will take place in that Tower. You can even pick who to bring with you to the Tower, and this is what Byleth says to themselves before the drop down menu shows up:

this is one of those lines that’s like semi-innocuous, since byleth is addressing the player here, but what the fuck is a teacher doing thinking about a student “that way”???? my girl doesn’t know there will be a 5 year time skip where they’re going to be legal she’s just saying this about a bunch of sixteen year olds.

The Goddess Tower itself is a mess of bungled flirting and unnatural romantic scenes, made all the worse by the fact that you can only trigger this scene with a student. Older characters like Seteth, Catherine and Shamir are locked out of the Goddess Tower. They can’t be picked from the menu, and if they’re your highest support, the game will default to the next highest supported student. Here’s some lines from Ingrid’s scene:

ingrid is 17 when this takes place. the youngest byleth possible is well over 21 and the oldest is turning 22 next month

Check out this post for more examples of the Goddess Tower. Byleth’s dialogue options here are right out of a god damn PSA about child safety. They genuinely come off as a huge creep here, especially “Just the two of us….” My dude.

Thankfully one of the few instances where you can turn the student down, but notable anyway. Dorothea’s C support, where you have the option of following her flirty lead, and her response will be the same regardless of your choice:

Another infamous bit of inappropriate flirting is Edelgard’s Japanese C1 support, which you’re likely to unlock before her 18th birthday in June because it’s her very first support:

This was thankfully removed in the English version (Though she still has the same flustered reaction), but the intentions are there. Curiously, I’ve seen many supporters of the Byleth/Edelgard ship say they were upset this was removed, while simultaneously denying the ship has any grooming connotations whatsoever— when an authority figure making ha ha, unless? 😳 sexual jokes in front of underage/barely legal kids to see their reaction is textbook grooming:

Once a trusting or special relationship is created, the offender may carefully test the victim’s reaction to sex. (x)

Not helping is the fact that Edelgard falling in love with Byleth during the school phase is practically canon judging by dialogue in CF of her missing you “more” than the others. Which leads to:

Some interactions pre-time skip resemble grooming tactics

In fans’ minds the lack of boundaries are somewhat mitigated by Byleth’s supposed good intentions, and it’s common to hear fans say Byleth obviously didn’t go to Garreg Mach intending to marry one of the kids they’re teaching because grooming must be malicious from the start. However, it’s well known that unlike premeditated abuse of younger kids, sexual abuse of older teens often happens by “accident”

In contrast, educators who teach at the late middle and high school level target victims in this age range. They might be outstanding teachers, although they may also be mediocre (Shakeshaft, 2003). Sexual abuse at this level may be less premeditated and planned and more often a result of bad judgment (Shakeshaft, 2004). (x)

In other words, by putting zero boundaries between teacher and students and enabling weird situations, which is 3H to a T. Many students flirt, but Byleth doesn’t say anything, or even flirts back.

Secondly, Byleth is like… barely a character, so this isn’t meant to be a callout post accusing them of being a manipulative abuser or whatever, because this is about the dev team putting teenagers in these flirty positions to satisfy the player that Byleth is meant to represent. Byleth is just the plot device they use to do so. People often say this flirting isn’t grooming because Byleth has “good intentions,” but they’re a self-insert, and a self-insert doesn’t have to have any in-universe intentions because the outside writing drives their actions— the thing is we KNOW these writers are not above writing pedophilia as harmless romance. People project good intentions on Byleth, because that’s the avatar. You’re supposed to project on them. This of course includes their “good intentions,” and when I play 3H I headcanon that too, but canonically speaking, these intentions are 100% ambiguous. They never voice attraction to another student, or disgust at the thought of dating them because they speak in small, limited dialogue options and thought bubbles. We don’t have a real, canon indication that they would oppose dating a student before the time skip nor that they would actually do it.

What we do have are the canonical interactions that make people uncomfortable, however. Byleth can think of students in “that way” when the Gatekeeper describes a romantic getaway on the Goddess Tower. If we take them at face value, then their dialogue options clearly establish that they’re okay with flirting with students as young as fifteen, at the very least. They “die” before potentially starting to date any of them for real, but the beginnings of an uncomfortable romance are there and the game fully embraces this as okay .

This is all a result of the writing. Fates never condemned you for picking your sister over any of the other thirty (?) romanceable characters, just like Three Houses doesn’t condemn you for picking Lysithea over any older women in the teaching staff. It’s just another S support option, and it even gets some sweet extra content. She’s touched that you care for her, and you do everything in your power to take care of her frail health, and you guys get happily married. No one ever mentions that you were her high school teacher when she was fifteen and you met at said high school, and she was your favourite student— and this is, you know, something of an important detail in any relationship. Just like Fates, it’s sweet and shippable out of context, which just encourages normalization. How dare you say this is unhealthy? It’s tender! Look how much he loves her!

The thing is that 3H initially presents your students as your charges in school. You’re unambiguously in charge of them as both tactician and instructor, even if you treat each other in a familiar way. Even if most students technically outrank you as nobles, Garreg Mach as politically neutral ground implicitly puts you above them as their teacher. The younger ones are vulnerable teenagers, away from home in a boarding school. Most have some sort of underlying emotional problem that they come to you for. They come to you for advice, and sometimes just venting. You can give them gifts, and have tea every week with them if you so wish in an off-screen conversation. Tea also serves as the “skinship” of this game where you get to see the anime boy/girl of your dreams from up-close, which is a pretty creepy thing to do with a fifteen year old anime girl even out of universe, but I digress.

Looking at this chart in the essay I linked earlier gave me a little bit of a stroke, because the “Strategies” aspects are all things you do in 3H prior to the time-skip:

This is obviously accidental, but still concerning because we know these devs have a twisted idea of what romance is, and that culminated in what I sincerely hope is an unintended but still eerily accurate portrayal of grooming.

Emotional confidence, teatime and gifts, flirting, making a vow together at the Goddess Tower, sex jokes, are all things you do pre-timeskip, and some student’s personal arcs make this even worse. Marianne, Dimitri and Bernadetta have mental illnesses, and they heavily rely on you for support. Edelgard and Sylvain express attraction towards you. You meet Felix’s father and he puts his full trust in you. Ignatz, Bernadetta and Marianne have very low self-esteem. Characters like Ashe and Annette have major parental issues that they discuss with you. In short, you see them at their most vulnerable as kids, and then get together as adults.

About the only thing you don’t do pre-time skip in that list is “Isolate,” but some character arcs post time skip have this distinct vibe nonetheless. Many students leave their homes in the war phase explicitly because of you and no other reason. CF Ingrid in particular outright betrays Faerghus and everything she knew for you, as she says she doesn’t really believe in Edelgard’s war. Knowing you as a teacher can string her along in her Goddess Tower scene while she’s underage puts this in an awkward perspective.

This is what makes the five year time skip hold little weight. Everyone is an adult when the relationship is consummated, yes, but it starts pre-time skip.

Emotionally vulnerable teenagers having a strong relationship and frequent alone time with their older teacher, who is a confidant and someone that makes them feel special is already looking bad, but the absolute loyalty, idolisation and close relationship when they’re adults only makes it worse, even if it’s probably just a result of poorly thought out game design and player pandering gone wrong.

It’s not just player pandering, however. The devs just clearly think these relationships are okay. Other non-Byleth student/teacher romances deserve a mention, too—Manuela is forty something and thinks of her romantic potential with some 19 year-old:

Thankfully, this support ends at B, but others don’t. She has romantic endings with Lorenz, Ferdinand and Dorothea, who she even canonically met before Garreg Mach as a child and who idolises her as an opera star. The game doesn’t stop at the normalisation of grooming with Byleth, they’re just the most noticeable example, especially since it’s a power fantasy for the player who can romance all of them, not just a few.

The time skip had the opportunity to fix some of the creepy implications, but it didn’t

People like to look at the time-skip as a justification of romance. That 15 year old kid is 20 now, after all, and your students are adults, who have matured and grown outside of your influence.... Except your interactions with them remain virtually the same. They still call you Professor and hold you in some extremely high esteem as an authority figure.

Three Houses has an avatar worship problem like all newer Fire Emblem games and this definitely contributes to the uncomfortable implications in the narrative, because literally everyone respects you and adores you to an uncomfortable degree. Even as grown ass adults, the avatar worship just makes it seem like your students still idolize you like when they were kids awe struck by how cool you are.

They don’t show the change from “mentor” to “peer” satisfactorily, like they intended for the romance elements to work. Byleth’s name is customizable, making a first name basis difficult, but they easily could have changed your war phase title to something that would make it seem like your students’ view of you changed, like a military title such as Commander, or even just Eisner, your canonical last name. All students still call you “Professor,” in the war phase, though. Some students even call you Professor when you’re about to propose to them in the S support, like Lysithea. Leonie, one of the oldest students who is actually your age, has this to say about calling you by your name… you know, like a normal peer and friend would:

White Clouds is also a whole year while VW, AM, and SS take place during six to seven months, CF during five. You spend more time as their teacher and mentor than as “peers,” so Leonie’s position is pretty understandable despite being like, barely a year younger than you.

To rewind, this game lets you pick a “special” student pre-time skip, who you’re encouraged to build bonds with through tea, gifts and the Goddess Tower. You’re their favourite teacher, as said by many other characters. They grow up and join you in your war regardless of who they have to fight, some even just to be with you. They still affectionately call you Professor, and look up to you. You can then marry them. This is unironically seen as both acceptable and even romantic.

Many of these interactions like tea are gameplay elements and thus come off as the devs not thinking too hard about it. Except, again, we know they have no problem in writing outright pedophilia, but Fates in particular had heavy backlash over this, which explains the need to tone it down a little. Grooming was their “compromise” between not turning off the casual audience while still cheekily pandering to that crowd. Everyone is technically over eighteen in Three Houses, even if they act extremely similar to their teenage selves. The “technically 1000 year old” romances like Flayn and Sothis were also left intact.

This is an important distinction, because a bit of a popular “it’s not grooming” argument when dealing with the war phase is Byleth’s weird dragon powers slowing their aging. Unlike the kids, all adult non-students in Three Houses undergo no portrait changes during the time skip, including Byleth. The thing is that in Chapter 10, they receive dragon powers as part of some plot nonsense, so it has different implications than just anime hating everyone over 25. There’s implications in the game that this definitely affected their ability to age normally, such as the Flayn ending:

However, we don’t know how their aging was affected and to what extent. Three Houses’ lore didn’t specify much about the way dragons age. Rhea undergoes dragon madness, so we can thus tentatively assume Fódlan’s dragons are similar to Archanea and Valentia’s dragons, which would mean there’s a chance Byleth even aged normally for a few years before slowing down significantly like Nah from Awakening did. It’s entirely possible they’re biologically 25-26 like they’re meant to be, because they didn’t physically die. They were just asleep.

Even if they really did not age a day over 21/22, it still makes the pre-time skip hold weight, however. Byleth can flirt with them as teens prior to any fantastical excuse, and they’re still a mentor figure in the students’ eyes, which goes on to colour every interaction with you in the war phase. Post-time skip everyone is legal, but they still have that history with you, and the game makes no real effort to change that whatsoever. It still fulfills the student/teacher fantasy despite the many, many technicalities it tries to pull out of its ass.

Intsys is self aware and knows that this upsets people

To say these devs probably didn’t mean it that way is not entirely impossible, but they don’t exactly inspire confidence. They even “acknowledge” their flippant way of treating teacher/student relationships in a DLC quest during school phase:

Of course, this is a silly complaint because a teacher being friendly with students is a good thing! Students learn better in a positive environment! The problem here is that it’s obviously referencing and mocking the people upset that this becomes romantic later on. I think anyone would have been able to forgive the overly friendly nature of Byleth and the students’ relationships if no line had been crossed regarding romance. This is Fire Emblem after all, and it wouldn’t be Fire Emblem without supports and relationships values.

But also, Intsys is very good at jokingly acknowledging when they’re being creepy rather than striving to do better. It’s not the first time they’ve done this. A really bold faced example is when the Fire Emblem mobile game widely known for fanservice released a ten year old child (no magic or dragons, either, just a child) dressed as a bride and had her say: “This outfit is just for the [bride] festival, don’t get any weird ideas!” when they were the ones who made a child bride for fanservice purposes.

this one was pretty fucked up even by their standards. comment sums it up

The devs also once called Camilla from Fates a “cow” in an interview for having huge breasts and a little tiara that looks like horns. They designed her that way, but then mocked her for looking like an oversexualized caricature. Any way you look at it, they’re well aware they’re being off-putting and cheekily being like, tee hee, I sure made a dating sim set in a high school! Which ultimately leads to the final point:

Though canon definitely has its problems, it’s less about canon and more about the devs’ bad intentions and the fans’ general lack of empathy for CSA victims:

This is not to diminish canon’s impact at all, because it’s outright malicious to portray an unhealthy relationship as cute and harmless. In short, they just pull technicality after technicality out of their ass to make student/teacher okay somehow instead of just..... not having student/teacher at all. After Fates having fucking incest, 3H and teacher grooming seems outright tame and that definitely contributed to the wide acceptance in the fanbase, because it’s less outrageously pandery. I can’t believe I have to say this in 2020, but…... that’s still not good, lads.

I will also admit there’s some nuance here regarding some of the students, especially those 20+ year olds who aren’t easy to manipulate teenagers like Mercedes. We can sit here and argue all day about whether or not this game legitimately 100% can be considered grooming because of those 20+ students, and all of those in-universe technicalities since there’s no real life academic journal on grooming who will talk about the offender being a dragon, but the end of the matter is that the devs chose to portray their pseudo-dating sim franchise in a school, while your MC is a teacher and most of the students are teens. These relationships are also 100% normalised and okay in-game. They did it with incest and with teacher/student, both topics that are majorly upsetting to CSA victims, and that alone is worth calling out. They even mocked people who were upset about it with a little DLC quest, just to rub it in.

This whole post was a critique of 3H and Intsys, but it’s impossible to critique the game without critiquing the fan culture around it, because the devs definitely had a fanbase in mind. We know they take feedback, since they toned it down after complaints about Fates, but the reason why they didn’t just get rid of pandering aspects, is because they’re popular. There’s a huge demand for this, and that’s exactly why they keep doing it, and it’s the simple reason that online anime spaces full of adults have always placed a particular interest in teens and sexualising and shipping them. A Fire Emblem game set in a school with a calendar and a lot of romantic and social elements that started development in 2017 just screams Persona 5 inspired. Fans obviously noticed.

”edelgard is soooo thirsty” jokes are a lot less funny if you know going for the thirsty kid is a legit strategy

Now, I don’t know shit about Atlus, and after seeing all these memes regarding Persona 5 and the fans’ positive reaction to them, I have zero intentions to play it, but I’ve unfortunately played every single FE game and watched the transition to classic FE to 3DS FE to 3H. I have my criticisms about modern FE’s writing quality for sure, and while I obviously can’t say it used to be perfect because it was still a fairly mediocre (but fun) game about teenagers beating up dragons, it’s now become one of the single most unfriendly fanbases if you’ve gone through any kind of sexual trauma. Incest shipping, pedophilic shipping, and sexualizing teenagers was always there to some extent, but it’s blown up now that the devs have emboldened those fans by doing it in canon itself. It’s rampant, especially on “waifu” circles, and now grooming ships are mainstream and everywhere. Even LGBT friendly “safe spaces” are unbrowsable. F!Edeleth in particular is commonly seen as the holy grail of wlw representation. Linhardt is the most popular M/M option despite the other two being adults. Doromanuela was given a shout-out by Dorothea’s English voice actress.

Old FE games had background things like that all the time, (Roy/Cecilia is Literally gender swapped Petra/Byleth) but the keyword here is background. Not like... 80% of the ships involving the MC in game, which means you weren’t bombarded with this every day. Worse, the discussion about this topic has been non-existent. Reddit has not touched this at all despite the community there being well known for meticulous criticism, Twitter and Tumblr have seen its fair share of discourse, but it’s quickly dismissed. Just click here to watch people dismiss the concerns of every single grooming and CSA victim, or even call them stupid like we can’t recognize this shit in every single fandom. Of note are the fans who dismiss grooming concerns by saying all flirting occurs post time skip (which is false, as we just said) and the characters are only 3-6 years apart anyway……………….. and then gleefully consume/produce pre-time skip content:

miscellaneous tags on a pre-time skip linleth comic (20/21/22 and 16/17 if you’re not keeping count) not posting the comic itself cause i don’t want anon hate lol

While there’s an argument to be made for romance with anyone who was 20+ pre-time skip, there is NONE for the underage kids. None. And like, even if you somehow still want to argue that 3H itself isn’t grooming because of the time skip, a huge chunk of the fanworks objectively are, and this is a huge problem that needs to be called out and nobody does so whatsoever. That comic has 2500+ notes.

This isn’t even a call to tell people to throw out their copies and riot, just to be aware of this and try to make fan spaces a little more bearable for CSA victims. A lot of people call this ‘toxic cancel culture’ and whatnot, but I personally can’t defend a dev team who I KNOW has done heinous things in the past, and continue to support the pedophilic mentality in online anime fan spaces but like, in a cheeky subtle way. They easily could have made Byleth a student who tutors the others because of their experienced mercenary background with Jeralt, or just not let them romance the kids at all. They could have pleased both the dating sim and high school camps by letting you choose to be either a 21+ teacher or a 17 year old student with the appropriate romance options, too. They didn’t do any of this, and their questionable past begs me to ask why, and none of the answers I can come up with are very encouraging. They also even blatantly gave you extra content when romancing students.

I hope contextualizing the 3H grooming at least makes some people understand why it’s so upsetting to see it everywhere. It’s just the decent thing to do to tag your posts, and to not dismiss any of these things. It’s just the decent thing to do to listen to people who are sharing their experiences and respecting their boundaries if they simply do not want to interact with you if you decide to continue supporting Intsys.

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed this. Stan Claude von Riegan.

#t #fire emblem #fire emblem three houses #fe3h #grooming mention #csa ment

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emblemxeno · 5 years

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(3H SPOILERS) Analysis of Main Characters in FE and the Western FE Community’s Perception of Them

In the midst of all the Three Houses hype, there’s a lot of contention with Edelgard as a character as well as her route in general with how it plays out.

With this, it’s given me some perspective on how the community feels about main characters and whether or not they are liked and/or well written. Since I am a Westerner myself, please always assume this is in the context of the western FE audience, as I don’t know enough about the JP audience to do comparisons or whatnot.

Now with this, there’s more or less a pattern with some main characters in how they’re received by western fans. (Sigurd, Seliph, Leif, Roy and Kris won’t be covered in this since I haven’t read enough of their games’ scripts to get a grasp on them)

The most contentious main characters by far are Eirika, Micaiah, Corrin and Celica (when I say contentious I don’t mean unpopular as they have many fans; however, though popular, they also have the most detractors).

These characters all have very defined flaws that get them in trouble in their games, are peace seeking in general and look for peaceful ways unless there is no other choice, and all do questionable things in their stories that call for doubt, discussion, and criticism. Most of their development comes from making mistakes and learning from them. They are also all known for getting into situations where they either need rescue or because of something they fucked up.

The least contentious main characters (compared to the four above, I might add) are Hector, Ephraim, Ike, and Alm.

They may or may not have noticeable flaws, but they hardly ever cause trouble for them. They may or may not seek peace at some opportunities, but are always willing, with no hesitation, to fight. They are all blunt and speak their mind, and though sometimes that poses situations where they could get into trouble, but they never really do. Most of their development comes from growth after bad things happening to them rather than something that they messed up.

In this, realize that main characters are the ones that people identify with the most, therefore, there’s a reason for certain characters to be less contentious than others. In particular, the reason for FE main characters?

It’s probably a little bitchy to say it like this, but it’s kind of power fantasy esque.

Hector, Ephraim, Ike, and Alm all have great authority/renown within their groups or territories and are always seemingly in control of the situation. They are hardly questioned, and when they are they are almost always proven right. In short, the players like these characters because they are validated as strong, intelligent, and almost always in control of the moment. Since these are the characters players identify with, the players themselves feel validated.

In contrast, compare to them Eirika, Micaiah, Corrin and Celica. They hold little authority (compared to the other four), are questioned and not always proven right, doubted at some points, they question and doubt themselves, they’re not as notably strong in various fields like the other four so they don’t get validated as the other four. Being main characters, these are also characters that players are to identify with, but since they have unattractive/undesirable qualities to them, (and because FE players always believe they themselves have the perfect solutions to everything) they are instead cast aside as being badly written, stupid, incompetent, and the oh so misused moniker, Mary Sue.

(Well, Celica doesn’t really get called that, but that’s because she wasn’t known by the audience that uses it frequently, and Echoes came out at a period when people stopped using it wrongly)

Again, I don’t wanna sound condescending, but power fantasy is really what I get from this.

Now there is sort of a problem with this theory, and that’s Ephraim, because he’s contentious in his own right because of the shit he pulls in FE8, but he gets less flack than his sister, Corrin, and Micaiah, so...

Anyway, besides the characters I intentionally left out because I didn’t know enough about them, there remains Marth, Lyn, Eliwood, Chrom, Robin, and the 3H Lords.

What’s notable about Mar-Mar is that his Shadow Dragon interpretation is very well received over here in the west. Marth in Shadow Dragon is written as being more blunt, and not really questioning himself, his actions, or anything that happens around him. Notice how this is very much unique to SD, as the original Dark Dragon script as well as Mystery and New Mystery portray softer, more idealistic Mar-Mars. Heroes also takes after those portrayals. Yet the audience here likes the SD portrayal the best; the one most similar to Hector, Ephraim, Ike, and Alm.

Lyn is in an interesting situation; she’s very much in control and she’s not as unimportant in the story as some say, but it’s still very much Eliwood’s story. Which makes it all the more weird that Hector shines over poor Eli. Had Lyn not been many players first Waifu FE lord, Hector would no doubt be the most popular one. Compared to Hec, Eli is peaceseeking and idealistic, though not to the point of the more contentious lords, so he gets passed on compared to his friends, but not to the point where people think he’s badly written.

Chrom and Robin are in an interesting situation as well, as the story is Chrom’s and then gradually become’s Robin’s story as it nears the end. (Some say they stole it from Chrom, but I would say it’s like the spotlight slowly drifted from him to them)

Chrom doesn’t have a notable flaw that gets him into danger, and is in control/has authority throughout a good deal of the campaign, but also very emotional and starts looking for peaceful solutions more often than say Hector, Ephraim, Ike, and Alm. Chrom tries to reason with Walhart, even, and those other four would never. So he’s kind of at an in between. Robin... is kind of hard to discern. They are supposed to be the character the player identifies with more since they are the avatar. We do see that they are in control as well and never makes to many mistakes. But they’re also batshit crazy for setting fleets on fire and fighting in a volcano. Having the player suspend their disbelief like that isn’t the best thing for identifying with a character, but it seems people like them enough for other reasons so indirect validation isn’t as prominent a thing with them.

Then come the 3H lords, and oh my, they do not fit into any sort of mold whatsoever; not perfectly anyway.

Byleth being a complete blank slate means they are truly in the middle on things; despite being the least customizable in appearance, they are the most avatar like of the FE avatars. The player can feel true, direct validation from the 3H cast as you get to pick which dialogue choices you want, and do other things at your own pace. (Unless you care about support points) As a character they’re not anything too special, but since they are a true avatar, they’re not seen as bad as say, Corrin, because the player can literally be who they want through Byleth and be validated by the story at the same time.

Edelgard, (the most discussed of the lords) is also unique. Never has a main character been so extreme in how they accomplish things. From what I’ve gathered from FE4, she’s Arvis like. And yet, she’s a protagonist in one possible outcome. She has the attractive qualities of protagonists like Hector and Ike, (being in control/having authority, speaking her mind) yet she’s contentious because unlike them her morality is very grey. The very definition of the ends justify the means. There’s a reason her title in Heroes is ‘The Future’. Because her goal and ambition is for the future, with no limit on what she’ll do to get there.

Dimitri is unique because he starts off as model prince, honor loving, sweet boy with bad hair. Then you gradually notice strange things about him, then Remire happens, then you learn he’s at the academy for revenge, then he goes feral at the Holy Tomb, and descends even further for 5 years, until he’s a revenge obsessed beast. He then begins his ascent back to being a proper king for his people (he’s more deserving of the title Restoration King than Ephraim, but that’s just me). There’s never been a main character in FE that falls so low and then climbs back up like that.

Claude himself is unique as well. Besides being the most well adjusted of the three lords, he’s actually pretty idealistic compared to them. He has big dreams and ambitions for Fodlan, and his main concerns are with the world at large, and his story doesn’t end with the major war among the 3 factions. He’s intelligent enough to not be blinded by emotion like Dimitri but also keen enough enough to realize that pure brute force isn’t the only option unlike with Edelgard. He’s very much a middle ground, but a middle ground that’s like a bell curve instead of a straight line, since Edie and Dima both fall hard and do messed up things, but are still not completely terrible people, whereas Claude is nowhere as extreme as they are and feels like a true balance.

If nothing else, 3 Houses achieves something very different with all of its main characters for once.

Anway, that’s kind of all I have. Sorry for the long post, but Fire Emblem is my #1 game series for a reason, so I get big into these passion analyses sometimes.

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gascon-en-exil · 5 years

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I know people are desperate to make Cuan/Finn happen for whatever reason, but will you really go so far as to interpret Finn as a gay Japanese sex slave in a western medieval setting?

Japanese? No. The point of applying wakashudo to discussions of Quan and Finn’s relationship is that it’s a historical practice with which the game’s developers would have been familiar, and one that aligns just about perfectly with their dynamic. Coincidentally (or not?) there were a number of comparable practices in European history that could be substituted in to match developer notes on the countries of Jugdral and from where each took their influence. As Leonster and northern Thracia generally are meant to represent the city-states of northern Italy it would be more fitting to paint Finn as a catamite (either the ancient Roman version, itself descended from the erastes/eromenos dynamic of Athenian pederastic love, or the early modern equivalent that sometimes incorporated members of the Catholic Church) who’s been taken off to war by his lover and also has blue hair for some reason.

Now, to call any of the younger partners in these types of relationships “sex slaves” completely misses their historical context in a bad faith attempt to modern statutory rape laws to settings in which they were not present. The reason that Athenian pederasy, the Sacred Band of Thebes, the mignons of Henri III, the garçons maquillés of 19th century Paris (from whom I take a good deal of my own presentation, the sex work of New Orleans having been heavily influenced by that of its mother city), and others persisted in the literary imagination for centuries was that they stood as uncommon positive depictions of same-sex relations. I assume wakashudo served a similar function in Japanese queer culture. They live on today in gay/bi male culture as well, through dominant older men we affectionately call daddies which has nothing to do with literal fatherhood *rolls eyes at Dream Daddy* and through the twink aesthetic, the practice among young gay men - mostly bottoms - of trying to look and act like underage or just-legal boys to cultivate a specific type of sex appeal. Neither of these is as clearly defined as a community as, say, the bear community is, and they’re not without controversy (particularly twinks among the masc4masc crowd that has a problem with effeminate men) but they’re more than just categories of guys on porn sites. I don’t know if he comes across as such in Japanese, but Leon in the localized version of Shadows of Valentia is unquestionably an anachronistic twink; he frets about how he’s getting older and how men will no desire him once he’s no longer young and smooth, the current object of his affections is a gruff protective daddy/bear type, and he has some overly idealized notions of love that he clearly hasn’t lost yet despite more than one setback. That he is as such when character profile declares him to be 24 is apparently what makes this morally acceptable, but in my view his actual age just gives him some more appreciable pathos.

Plus, calling Finn a sex slave ignores the context of the Jugdral games themselves: the man clearly holds Quan up on a pedestal for decades after his death, and at no point does he contemplate whether there was anything inappropriate about their relationship because, in-universe, there really wasn’t. The plot of FE5 would not have happened at all had Finn not been so hell-bent on upholding Quan’s dying dream of a Thracia united under his house (itself an ethically complex issue with no easy answer, without taking anyone’s sexual proclivities into account). If he ever questions all that he went through to put Leif on the throne of the entire peninsula the games never tell us about it; Seliph questions whether the invasion of Thracia is a just war, but Finn and Leif certainly never do. What’s more, take a look around at what else Finn can get up to during normal gameplay, not to mention some other Gen 1 characters:

Finn, the wide-eyed fifteen-year old with no sexual agency, can father two children on any of seven women during his time with Sigurd’s army. It’s implied this happens in a series of one-night stands (or just one in Ayra’s case), at least for him to leave his new family without even a word when he leaves Silesse with Quan and Ethlyn.

Among these women is Lachesis, who is about Finn’s age and more than a little in love with her own brother. The most heavily implied father of at least one of children is a hardened mercenary old enough to have fathered another child on the other side of the continent some years prior.

And then there’s Silvia, the fourteen-year old prostitute/camp follower. She’s introduced immediately following a hookup with a man who is several years older than her and whom we’re meant to consider sympathetic enough for his full character arc to land with the appropriate impact. Oh, and another of her predestined pairings evokes a brother/sister dynamic even if in reality she and Claud are probably just distant cousins.

Also, Dew. We are asked to suspend our disbelief and accept that at some point during the campaign this baby-faced kid hits puberty and is able to father two children.

The original point of bringing up wakashudo and the dynamic between Quan and Finn is that it’s one of many, many contentious issues explicit or implicit within the text of the Jugdral games that would make them very tough to localize faithfully in the current moral climate. You can’t just selectively apply moral outrage to these two alone without coming off as homophobic (and from what I’ve read, per one of the supplementary mangas Ethlyn was only 16 when she gave birth to Altena, so Quan’s sketchy by modern standards with a woman too). I’d like to see remakes that doesn’t scrub away these controversial elements, because it is my opinion that Fire Emblem has always thrived off its unorthodox treatment of sexual content. Whether we ever get Jugdral remakes, and in what condition they’ll leave the original script and what’s between its substantial line gaps, remains to be seen.

Not that I imagine that will stop you from being argumentative. You’re very clearly not a typical Tumblr anti, who would have just left Mark and/or me with an anon declaring us to be pedophiles and called it a day*. You made a new account with nothing on it and an uncreative username just to send me (and possibly others in the fandom) meandering asks purely meant to generate debate. It’s a telling M.O.

*Which I would then publish with a humorous rebuttal, so that my followers might then have a quick laugh over this clear misapplication of an ethically charged term.

#Fire Emblem #Quan/Finn #Fire Emblem Jugdral #FE4 #FE5

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