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Haven DVD commentaries: 5.17 - Enter Sandman

Notes on the commentary for 5.17 with Lucas Bryant (director for the episode) and Shernold Edwards (writer for the episode)

This is a fun one and is by far the highest serious-to-ridiculous ratio from Lucas I have ever heard. Really lovely to hear him talk about how much he loved directing this episode. (As always this is not necessarily direct word-for-word quotes but hopefully captures the nature of the conversation.)

SE: So this was fun. I didn’t think it was going to be fun, but it was. LB: Wow - you were scared? SE: I was nervous! Because you’ve been working with this character for much longer than I have, and you guys are so tight you know your characters so well, you know the show. I was a fan of the show before I started, but you guys are /inside/ the show. LB: Right, interesting. SE: So I was writing it for you and I wanted it to be good. And I wanted it to be emotional but also I felt like it was a bit of a departure. LB: Totally. SE: And I was nervous too that the fans might be upset. LB: Right. Well personally this is one of my favourite episodes ever. SE: Oh me too. LB: Not necessarily because of what I did, but just reading it, it was fan-freaking-tastic. SE: So this [dream!Audrey on the phone] was one of the first shots that came through in the dailies and I looked at that and I was like; Lucas is a director! Look at the window, and the view, and she looks great. And we had looked at wardrobe and decided the short jacket looked great. And then seeing this I was like; That isn’t the short jacket I picked! But then I was like: Ahhh what a good choice! Because it flows! LB: Oh I didn’t know that I was breaking the rules. SE: No, you weren’t. I thought the short one was pretty but you made a better choice. LB: Oh good. I’m glad you think so.

LB: So this scene [Nathan finding Audrey on unconscious on the classroom floor] we actually shot this with the previous episode that was directed by Rick Bota, and thankfully he let me shoot this scene together with the end of the last episode where Audrey finds Grayson unconscious. SE: So how long before you guys did that did you know that you were going to have to shoot this scene? LB: It came up in scheduling, just because I thought it made sense because we were going to be in there already and set up to shoot a similiar scene. And it actually was awful because I was working that day, shooting - I mean working as an actor - and then I knew that this was coming in the afternoon. And it was totally sort of frazzled, and I was back and forth between planning the shot and being in the shot. And it was totally uncomfortable and awkward and weird. And I remember thinking, I do not want to have that experience for the rest of this thing, so it was great to get that out of the way. Because that happened, it happened for like an hour and then it was done and I got a couple days to think about what had happened and what I could do better and everything. So it was this sort of perfect trial by fire. But then at the same time I had Rick there to watch when I was on screen. Because that was the worst, I think, trying to do …. SE: Yeah like in the thing and watch the thing LB: Yeah. SE: So I’m sad because I love Kris Lemche [who plays Seth]. LB: So do I. SE: He’s so awesome. I think he just got cast in a CW pilot playing a role that’s very similar to this. So I’m just going to go on record and say that Kris Lemche should be thanking Nick Parker who originated this character. But I’m sad because I wrote this whole thing about his lustrous hair that ended up getting cut out. And I just thought somebody should pay homage to the lustrous hair. I tried but, the scene ran long. LB: I know, it was so good. It was funny and it was great, but that was part of the sad reality I realised of doing this - because it ended up running long, then any piece of anything that could possibly get taken out, got killed. SE: Yeah, I know. And it’s usually the fun stuff. LB: Yeah. SE: But a lot of the fun stuff did stay in this and I’m so glad. And I’m so glad you directed this one. But I wanted to ask you, because it feels like you didn’t have a lot of lead up time, between knowing that you had to shoot that scene that you were in and actually doing it. LB: Right, it didn’t. SE: So was that weird? Did you have to block yourself? LB: Yes. So we, Rick and I were shooting in that location the week previously, so thankfully I had a bunch of time between scenes to walk around, so any time I wasn’t shooting I go and nervously write things down. So I talked about it with Rick, and he told me what he was thinking, and I decided that those lines - those visual lines - could work for where our characters were going to be. SE: Oh yeah of course becuase that was a direct follow on from the previous episode LB: Yeah because Audey comes in the room, so I was like; Well Nathan can just come in the same way so we don’t have to light that again, we just do the same thing. SE: So going in to this I was aware that you were going to be directing and that we’d want to lighten you up as an actor LB: Yes! Thank you! SE: But I was also sad about it too because scenes like this one between you and Charlotte, we don’t get to do that a lot. We’ve got all this mythology stuff that needs to come in and case of the week stuff LB: Right. SE: And the fans, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, kind of like your face. And when your face is not on screen I kind of feel like they blame me. *Some joking around about who is actually in charge of the show and who’s fault it therefore actually is* SE: When this thing airs, I’m taking my name out of the phone book LB: Everyone - Shernold did all of us a favour by keeping my face out of this a little bit, so dial back the hate mail. SE: Goodness, and then also upset at Audrey even thinking about marrying anybody else. I’m going to keep my dog inside, and close all my windows, and hunker down. LB: It’s a TV show, people! Everyone knows the love story, the true love story, OK? It’s just … give Shernold a break? SE: Yeah let’s give Shernold a break. OK this guy [playing Sandman/Henry] was awesome. LB: Amazing. This whole experience was the coolest thing in the world for me. I absolutely loved it. And I got incredibly lucky in so many ways, it felt like it was divine at every turn. The actors, the guest actors; Rossif [Sutherland who plays Sandman] is a fantastic actor and was totally game for everything, I think he was incredible. Tim Beresford who plays Grayson I thought was fantastic. SE: Yeah he was really good. He’s a friend of yours, right? LB: Yeah, he is. And Emily and Laura and everyone who had to go into this illusion just went in, really went for it. SE: Yeah they all totally went for it. And - our show is always very emotional, and serious things go on too so there has to be a level of seriousness to it. But I feel like because we got to do dreams, that we got to go in a different direction. LB: Totally. SE: And I don’t think I’ve ever seen Emily, or the Audrey character, as relaxed, or as buoyant, or affectionate - I mean there’s obviously a lot of affection between Audrey and Nathan - but as affectionate or unencumbered, as unencumbered-ly in love with someone. But I think a lot of that came from you. LB: Hmmm. Well. I think it came from you, from what you wrote. Because Audrey Parker is always encumbered by the weight of the world. She has all these things to deal with; her identity, her lack of identity, what is going on, saving the world. So for her to get to play a woman who doesn’t have a care in the world, this is the most perfect life possible. I think that she just embraced that. And it wasn’t a vapid character, because that was a concern. But it was really amazing. When we first see them together in that world, it made me - this whole experience made me love actors so much more as well. Because so often when I’m acting, you feel sort of powerless, you feel like this meatpuppet in many ways, you’re being told what to do. And a lot of times you feel this frustration of not being able to really have this voice that you think you should have. Now, getting to watch actors, as the director, I was like; That is so freaking not true. And I am going to try to never feel like that again. Because from the moment that I said ‘Action’ until ‘Cut’ we were completely in an actor’s world. Like there would be scenes where I’d be thinking; I don’t even know how I’m going to do this or what I’m going to tell them. And they would just come in and bring it to life. And it was joyous to watch. To the point that there’s all the stupid pictures of me with my mouth so wide open leaning in at the monitors like a freaking idiot. SE: I think you should post those because I think people will want to see those. LB: *laughs* But I was really just so joyously appreciating getting to watch these performances. Because when you’re in it, it doesn’t feel good, it feels yucky. I mean these guys are fighting about the loves of their lives or potential deaths and imminent doom … SE: This guy [Sandman] is scary as shit LB: … so it was such a nice experience for me. SE: I have to say, this was one of the times where I regret not going up to set this season. Going up to set is not easy, because everyone works really hard, we have long hours, and we’re away from a lot of the amenities of the city, it’s not easy. What makes it good is the great people, the Haven crew (and the delicious food we get to eat.) The bugs, I’m not into. The ticks, I’m not into. LB: Yep. They’re lame. SE: The heat and the cold simultaneously, I’m not into. So, I wasn’t heart-broken when we were told that writers wouldn’t be going up to set for season five. Except for this episode. I wanted to be there for this.

LB: So this week, those first couple days, thankfully you kept me mostly out of this and the way it worked out schedule-wise was that other than that first bit that we shot a couple days earlier with Rick, I got to just direct for the first four days. SE: Oh that’s awesome. LB: So it was three days at the mansion, in the fantasy world, and then one day at the school where it was all Dwight and Sandman stuff. So for the first four days I didn’t have to put on any make up or get out of my own clothes. So I just got to focus on these guys. So this, look how gorgeous this is [as Audrey and Henry greet Grayson in the dream world]. And a couple days before this, it was freezing. And a couple days after, it was freezing. And when Emily first came out in the dress later on, it was so stunning. And we were outside and she had this wrap on, and we were thinking it would be nice if she took the wrap off, but it’s so cold out here. So I’m like; Great, I’m now the guy that gets to go and talk to her and ask if she’ll take the wrap off. And I’d been out there days before and it was freezing. Initially we wanted to put her on the dock, but I was just like; That’s going to be awful. So she said she’d try it. And it was like as she removed the wrap, the sun came through the clouds and I swear it was like 12 degrees warmer, the wind died, and we got this amazing shot - you’ll see it later - where the sun’s directly behind her, and it just seemed like we had done the best planning you could ever do. But we just got totally lucky.

SE: This was one of my favourite scenes [where Duke first gets Seth to remember Haven]. Kris is so funny. And I loved those words when they were on the page, but the little pauses that he puts in, in the delivery. LB: Yeah, he is one of the funniest people I’ve ever met. SE: And so nice. It sounds really cliche, but this dude is really nice. LB: Super sweetheart. Fantastic actor. Hilarious, lovely person. And the two of them together [Kris Lemche and Eric Balfour], it was like, again, I just watched. And laughed, and enjoyed. And I was like; I don’t have anything to tell you guys, other than; you’re awesome. And one of these scenes with them - or maybe they got cut in half, but one of them was like four and a half pages or something. It was a pretty long scene of the two of them going back and forth. So I was like; Do you guys want to rehearse one? But they were like; Let’s just shoot it. And I swear to god, the first take, boom, they had everything down. I was like; Thank god. And that’s when you really see the difference between what makes a pro actor. Because you don’t have time for someone to be; Sorry, what was that? And that’s me, all the time, forgetting my lines. Thankfully Nathan doesn’t say much. SE: Which is not my fault either. Nathan is a man of few words. LB: I actually usually ask for less. Like; Can I not say that? SE: You do! Can I do that with a look? Can I just frown at that? Can I convey all that with just a frown? And then you do. LB: Right. Let’s just let Audrey talk, and I’ll observe her. But yeah when you have those huge scenes which Kris and Balfour did that day with those big scenes just the two of them, they just killed it. I had to do nothing.

[As Charlotte is talking to Sandman] SE: This scene was fun. We don’t usually get much sexy on this show. And I like how you’ve got Dwight there [through the window behind], looking in at his lady. LB: Yeah this was a little sexy. And she totally went for it. SE: She did. And that squeal that’s coming up? I didn’t think I was going to be allowed to do it. LB: I know, I remember we were sitting in this office, having that conversation. I think you wrote it in the script as ‘sorrority girl squeal’. And I was like ummmm, is that for real? But then I got on board, and we were like; Let’s do it and see. And she did it and SE: And she did it, but I thought for sure it was going to get cut out. I thought it just wouldn’t make it - at every turn. I thought the network would cut it out, I thought the studio would cut it out. LB: I think there were a couple voices that were wondering about it but I think the amazing thing about this episode was you could say, well, it’s an illusion. It’s not real. That was just a really good go, if someone was wondering; I don’t know if in Haven, we should …? It’s like; You have to remember this is an illusion. SE: Yeah, this is not Haven. [Charlotte doing her sorority squeal] SE: Oh Laura Mennell, you make me so happy. And then Emily’s face lights up as well. It’s just nice to see that character, even though she’s completely in a place where she shouldn’t be - if she had any power over herself she wouldn’t even touch another man except for Nathan - but to see her just being so free, and happy.

[Charlotte helping Henry with his cufflinks] LB: I thought he was hilarious in this scene. And when he tries to snap her back .. when he … SE: You’re still directing! Oh my gosh, you guys couldn’t see but Lucas was looking at Laura Mennell’s close-up, going; Oh there’s a thing there … LB: When he’s calling her back to the illusion here I love this. So again, we had zero time for these scenes because this was six days, this episode. SE: Oh yeah, you had to do this in six days! LB: So Eric Cayla, who is amazing and held my hand through all of this and was incredibly supportive and insightful. SE: He’s the most manly gentle man, and he’s a gentleman, but I mean he is gentle, and yet so macho at the same time. LB: He is, absolutely. SE: Like standing on set eating a wheel of expensive delicious cheese with a knife. LB: Yeah, that he takes out of it’s own holder. But so, I wanted to do something visually special for the illusion that differentiated it from the world of Haven, so part of it was in the colour. But we were also talking about frames; like frames within frames within frames. So you’ll see a lot of square symmetrical shots, or like this [Grayson coming to see Audrey in her wedding dress] through doorways SE: That was kind of menacing [Grayson’s hand on the door handle], I didn’t intend that. LB: Because you don’t know who’s hand that is SE: Yeah. Nice work! And look at that [wedding] dress. That was the first choice, right? That was the first dress any of us saw. LB: Yes, and I was like: Oh god, they’re going to go try on wedding dresses, this is going to be the biggest shit show, the decision of which dress to wear. SE: Yeah I thought it was going to be a hideous conversation. LB: And so I thought I would defer to the ladies and just shut up. So they sent out five pictures, and I think every single one of us picked the same one. There wasn’t even a question. SE: I think it’s one of the only unanimous decisions on the show. LB: Ever.

SE: So I had suspected it watching the dailies, but then also I was talking to some of our production managers up there and, the entire crew came together for you. LB: Yes they did. SE: In a way that was just special. LB: It was so special. SE: Everyone wanted you to do well, everyone was trying their best. And it worked. And I know you brought 80% of it, but I think if you weren’t the kind of person that you are, and the kind of professional that you are then people would have been just like; … yeah good luck LB: Well yeah totally. They could have completely sunk me. And I can’t say it enough, I spent basically two weeks on the verge of tears, just from pure joy. It was so incredible. And every single step from you guys here in LA, the production team in Nova Scotia and all of the crew - every single person totally supported me. Told me that they were going to support me. Made me feel supported. It was incredible. And then to see what a group of 150 people working together can do in 10 minutes? It’s amazing. SE: Yeah I mean I tried to write to the six day schedule, but I was not convinced. I was not sure it was going to be possible to get all that done in six days. LB: I think that’s just the way TV is going now that people are just squeezing more … Oh this is a nice shot of the two of them [Henry and Grayson] silhouetted in the doorway. It was all so beautiful and I was so freaking lucky. It was overwhelming, the love and support. SE; That was great! [Grayson’s body disappearing from the dream world] That was terrific!! LB: Oh good. SE: I hadn’t seen that but that is exactly how I had written it. Thank you! LB: Oh no, thank you. Although we should thank the post production people. SE: That was great that was the first time I’ve seen that. LB: Oh good.

LB: So a lot of trying to get through those days of blocking and scheduling stuff in the dream sequence in particular was we were trying to find lighting set ups, or share locations. And I’ve got to give it up to these guys [Adam as Dwight and Rossif as Sandman in the principal’s office] because I think this was the fourth day of shooting and it was all these two, all day. SE: Did you do it chronologically. LB: Yeah they went chronologically and they went from the first scene to the last scene non stop SE: No way. LB: Yep, so we would sit on Adam and he would do …what is it, 12 pages? SE: The whole thing? What! LB: Yeah. A 22 minute take. So to the camera guys; Thank you, and, I’m sorry. Because they were like; If I didn’t like you, you would be fucking dead right now man. Because it was hand held. So they’re holding the camera and shaking. They did an incredible job and it was just about letting these two guys go for it, and they wanted to. It was totally awesome to see, It was like theatre, we would watch it for 20 minutes.And again, totally pro. And Adam who only started being a TV actor a couple years ago, came and did this super professional badass shit. I was so blown away by him. I think he is excellent in this episode, I loved directing him, and he yeah, would go from start to finish, 20 minute take, killing it every time. Amazing. SE: That’s incredible. I had a lot of fun writing those two. One of my favourite things to write, for some reason, is a grumpy white guy. And that was a lot of fun, these two guys threatening each other. And for this two [Charlotte telling dream!Audrey about the Troubles]. I’m always interested in our Troubled people, but can’t always spend that much time with the Troubled people because they’re not the stars and they’re not what people want to see. But because of the way this was structured, and because you were directing and didn’t want to be on screen all that much, then I got to spend a lot of time with Dwight and our Sandman. LB: Totally. And I loved how he got a really character-y episode.

SE: Look at that hair. LB: He’s got good hair. SE: Beautiful LB: Are we talking about Balfour’s hair? Or Lemche’s hair? SE: I take the fifth on Balfour’s hair but he’s a handsome man. LB: I like that hair. And Lemche does ...- I missed the mustache though.

SE: Hey, did our crew make that? LB: Yes, that is fake. We are standing in front of the studio, we were in the parking lot of the studio for this whole day. So yes that entrance there used to be a … SE: And the gas thing and whatever? LB: Yes, that is a fake gas thing, no gas comes from it.

LB: I love this; it’s a very loud van [Seth driving away from Duke claiming the engine’s too loud to hear him] I apologise for letting them, but I let them ad lib whatever and whenever they wanted. SE: That’s fine. They were funny.

SE: Oh and this is the shot when the sun came out? [Emily sat on the bench in the wedding dress] LB: This is when the sun came out. And I wish, ideally my hope for that sequence was as a much longer shot that started further back and would go super slowly up towards her. But the constraints of the fact that we can’t just let it be an hour and ten minute episode meant that had to get trimmed. But yeah it was just so stunning. SE: I’m not a big wedding person, but I was wildly invested in that tiara. LB: I remember SE: I was a bit of a beast about the tiara LB: You were totally serious. You were like; I am talking freaking Cinderalla, with the white gloves, the tiara, the whole thing. SE: I wanted something with height. And to Joanne I have to say, you do a beautiful job, and I know you resisted, and I will say - you were right. We did not need a tiara that was a foot high.

SE: Oh I hadn’t seen this [montage flashback of Naudrey moments]. This is cute! The feels! Oh you guys can’t be mad at me, look at all this Nathan/Audrey stuff. Stop tweeting me! LB: I don’t think people will be mad. This is one of the coolest Nathan and Audrey … SE: Wow! That [montage] was longer than I thought too. LB: And that was one of those things that was conceived in editing, really. Because we had talked about the possibility of some flashback moments here. And Shawn Pillar was instrumental in creating that.

[Seth driving along rocking out to the radio] SE: Look how cute he is! LB: It’s hilarious. SE: It is really funny. And look we’ve got foliage finally. LB: Yeah, the colours [on the trees[ SE: We got to shoot in fall! LB: I saw a bit of the next couple episodes when it’s full on fall. I just did ADR SE: Oh is that the one where they’re outside LB: Yeah and the yellow house.Stunning. The fall was beautiful. I mean, it wasn’t that fun shooting, but I knew at some point it was going to look totally gorgeous. SE: I’m looking forward to seeing that one. I haven’t seen much at all from 5B because we were writing like demons and everything so it’s going to be all new to me.

[Audrey and Henry talking on the bench and he puts his hands to her throat] SE: Woah. When you did that, I was like; Whaaat?! That’s powerful. Because I thought, is he going to strangle her? And how can she be so calm. LB: Well he started doing that, because he started touching her and holding her face. And there was something sinister about it, so I was like, yeah, let’s go there. SE: Yeah and I mean normally - I don’t know I didn’t even intend this - but what I’m thinking is that because we’re still partially in the dream world. Because I think normally in that situation Audrey would be like; What? Get your hands off me! Punching him in the face LB: Absolutely SE: But this is a little different, this is still so intimate. I mean she’s not feeling it, obviously, because it’s all Nathan for her. LB: But she’s still not completely out. She’s still not Audrey Parker yet. SE: It’s really powerful. LB: Yeah it was an interesting line to try and figure out. Because yeah, when she remembers is she herself again? But she’s still in this world, he hasn’t fully released her.

[As the dream world starts to fracture around them] SE: That’s really cool. That’s what I pictured when I said it turns into a bit of a nightmare for him. That’s really good. LB: Good. SE: And I didn’t really expect this from the actor either. Because I think I put something lame in there like; ‘He screams in frustration’ or something. Which I know no actor wants to do but I had to put something in there for people who read scripts and don’t necessarily know what it’s going to look like when it’s done. LB: Totally. And that was just him in front of a green screen by himself. And he just went for it. And Emily wasn’t even there. He was just standing there doing those final moments on his own and I just let it go, and let him do it over and over. He did like 20 different takes, but so beautifully vulnerable and angry and lovely and lost. And that’s what I thought was really wonderful about his performance that you ended up carrying about him. And this song [that’s playing as Audrey and Charlotte wake up] Adam turned me on to it a long time ago and told me; Whenever I hear this I always think of Audrey and Nathan. SE: Ah that’s so sweet LB: So when it came to my episode I listened to it again and thought we’d throw it here in the end. SE: That’s a lovely image [Henry on a bench in the empty dream world]. I wasn’t quite sure what that was going to be like with him alone. I never really settled on what I thought that should look like and I think you made a good choice. It’s nice to see these two [Audrey and Charlotte]. What’s fun for me is that we didn’t have a lot of just Audrey and Charlotte stuff, even though we knew that they were mother and daughter. So I tried to use the dream sequence to bring them closer. LB: Yeah, I think that really worked.

SE: This was fun LB: It was! SE: You did a good job man. LB: Thank you.

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